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Messages - Franc T., Planar

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 32
1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 22, 2007, 01:09:59 PM »
You're such a pompous asshole, Franc!  It must be nice having everything figured out about everybody and everything. ::)

What the fuck is wrong with you? I am just saying someone might be a little too naive to say something, and I'm now a pompous asshole?

Are you guys so fucking infallible that no one should dare to question you?

You guys desperately need to be taken down a peg or two... I'd punch you in the face if I could.

2
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 22, 2007, 01:08:08 PM »
I'm just trying to figure out what you mean when you say "Well, I can't really expose or attack what doesn't really exist, now can I?" It sounds to me like you're implying that it might not exist.

The "united states of america" doesn't exist as anything but fictional lines drawn on maps. That's all it means. It doesn't "really exist."

Excuse me if I don't use perfectly accurate language on my daily posts... Unlike all of you guys, who always write precisely what you believe down to the letter?


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And "Supposedly from there" implies that they aren't actually from there, to me, but I must be mistaken, so what do you actually mean?

How am I supposed to answer your fucking questions if you don't provide any context? What was I replying to? Geesh,

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The truth.
« on: May 22, 2007, 01:04:25 PM »
Yes GeneralGayarm , obviously those billions of people who believed every word of it were all completely wrong, and YOU know how to be a Christian properly. Good job.

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 21, 2007, 11:59:23 AM »
Whether or not the methodology is naive is besides the point if I personally know the people well enough to figure out if they're are religious or not.

It doesn't matter how much information you have if your processing method is broken, you git.

5
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 21, 2007, 11:58:16 AM »
Just read the Challenge text. As far as you're concerned, on this thread that's ALL I mean.

6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 20, 2007, 09:37:47 PM »
And you've never even met the people I am talking about. Therefore my conclusions are more likely to be right than yours about those people.

I did not claim any conclusions about who those people were. I am just saying your methodology is naive.

7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 20, 2007, 07:41:51 PM »
Once again, you have no idea who is actually a believer and who isn't, you just trust anyone who says anything. Hardly a basis to draw conclusions from.

8
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 20, 2007, 07:40:54 PM »
Flatty there's no way anyone can win this challenge, no matter what they say. There is no way of proving the USA is a legitimate entity or whatever exactly what Franc wanted proven, simply because when someone's mind is made up nothing you say will change it, and to prove it would be to change his mind. Impossible.

I am not asking anyone to "change my mind." I am asking anyone to present an argument that proves the point. It does not say anywhere in the rules that I have to embrace the winning argument and make it my new position.

9
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 20, 2007, 05:24:25 PM »
Read the Challenge text again. The term "legitimate" has already been defined.

"Follows the law" is not adequate, since the law of the State is itself an arbitrary construct. You can pass a law saying that pi equals 3, or making overflowing rivers illegal, but either way it doesn't mean shit.

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Jerry Falwell is dead
« on: May 20, 2007, 01:30:12 PM »
1. I am the Lord your God, Thou shalt have no other gods before me; unless you believe in the Trinity, in which case you believe but don't really believe, in three, or one, gods. Three in one, yea that's the ticket.

2. Thou shalt not make for yourself an idol and worship it. Unless it's one of the following: Abraham "fuck the declaration of independence" Lincoln, giant phalluses, the Ten Commandments themselves, and your own gigantic ego.

3. Thou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of your God, except when you're reeeeeally mad. But if your kids do it, smack them until they learn their lesson.

4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. That's what football games are for.

5. Honor Thy Mother and Father. Child beatings and rapes never hurt anyone.

6. Thou shalt not murder, with the following exceptions: you're a soldier in time of war, a policeman in a drug bust, a prison guard executing someone, you're the FDA and you wanna regulate life-saving medicines into oblivion, you want to stop people from being able to protect themselves with guns.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Even though the monogamous model has not been prevalent throughout human history, and is completely unproven as a child-raising model, I will stop you by force if I have to because I'd be jealous if you were having sex with more than one person at a time.

8. Thou Shalt Not Steal--Unless Thou Canst Get the Government to Do It for Thee. Then it's a public service.

9. Thou shalt not bear false witness, unless you're a Creationist testifying against science, or a judge. Then you're scot-free.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbour's. Just be content with what you have, you fucking sap. You'll get your reward in Heaven. Yea, any time now...

11
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 20, 2007, 01:18:28 PM »
For the sake of all the idiots who can't read, I added a note to the Challenge so it was clear that "government" is not the issue here. For the record, I do believe that government can be said to exist meaningfully (but not legitimately), but this does not meet the Challenge requirements either way, so it's completely irrelevant ot the Challenge.

12
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 20, 2007, 11:11:04 AM »
Once again... I am not "denying that government exists." Cut the straw men, kiddos.

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 02:16:04 PM »
I think Francy was molested repeatedly by a priest when he was 6. ;D

Niiiice. Do you often joke about sexual molestation? Does it make you feel happy to think about children getting molested? You sure seem happy...

You are one sick fuck.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 02:15:11 PM »
Just because I point out that someone may be naive, makes me a preacher?

Don't preacher do the exact opposite?

You people don't even try to make sense.

15
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's 210$ USA Challenge
« on: May 19, 2007, 02:14:16 PM »
So you're accusing me and the other pledgers of lying. Very well. That is your right, but only reinforces my decision.

If you believe we are lying, then why even try? You are dishonest as well, it seems.

16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:57:16 PM »
If you think it's a pointless argument, then stop arguing with me. I'm just saying you sound very naive right now. If that's fine with you, what can I say.  ::)

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:49:53 PM »
Because they told me they were.

Ooookay. So you believe every single person on this board who says he's a flat earther?

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:45:26 PM »
You might find it unlikely because of your own experiences and preconceptions but my own personal experience proves otherwise to me. Say what you will, I'll just have to disagree with you on that.

How do you know they are religious?

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:38:46 PM »
Just want to add in that of the religious people I know the vast majority aren't stupid or immoral. They were decent intelligent people.

I find that rather unlikely.

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:36:41 PM »
Look man, we both agree that religion is, well, stupid. But that doesn't mean everyone who is religious is either stupid or immoral. Ignorance almost certainly counts for the vast majority of religious belief, and it's only a very selective, specific ignorance.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. It's not really relevant to the thread topic anyway.

21
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's T-Shirt USA Challenge
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:31:29 PM »
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If we're not talking about government, then how would this statement lead to proof that "the United States of America exists and is legitimate"?

I never said the statement led to anything. It is used as a definition of "legitimate." Nothing more.

If you're going to apply for a challenge, at least prove that you can read what the instructions say. So far you have failed to do so repeatedly.


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I can prove the statement simply based on world affairs.  We are recognized by our peers as a nation and a legitimate entity.

If you knew logical fallacies at all, you'd know this is an argument from popularity. Popular opinion does not make something true. You lose again.


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It's only idiots like you who love playing around with the English language who think they can prove otherwise.

I have claimed to prove nothing. You did. And you failed, and shown yourself a total arse in the process.


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You're bullshit, as ever, Franc. :P

You are confrontational, you cannot read simple instructions, and you have already failed three times. All further submissions on your part will be rejected.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye.


22
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's T-Shirt USA Challenge
« on: May 19, 2007, 12:40:28 PM »
I disagree.  Under any process of government said to be by the people, some form of voting would be necessary, whether for an official or for the institution of a law.  Since this is a necessary condition of such a government, you can't also use it as proof that such a government does not exist.

1. I am not asking you to prove that "the government" exists, so your rebuttal is completely irrelevant. Depending on your definition of "government," I may very well agree. I definitely agree that the ruling class exists, and that their organized coercion exists, and that's all one needs to define a government. Rather, I am asking you to prove that the "United States of America" exists and is legitimate. A very different question than "does a government exist."

In case you didn't notice, the Challenge ITSELF is called the USA Challenge, not the Government Challenge! If I wanted proof of a government I would have called it the Government Challenge!

2. If I understand it correctly, your argument is not even valid. It seems to be: voting proves that government exists because voting is a necessary prerequisite for government. That's like saying: human life proves that god exists because if god existed he would have created human life. It's a circular argument.


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To allow one to vote against the state such as you describe (such as, I guess, to vote to not have a President?  ???), one would be opening the door to anarchy, which you know very well is essentially the absence of government!  Again, it's a necessary condition of government.

See rebuttals 1 and 2 above.


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Kind of contradicts your assertion that we feel coerced to vote, doesn't it?  I mean, if we're being coerced, why aren't more of us voting?  It doesn't matter anyway.  We all have the option to vote, and that is what is important, under your requirement.

Now you are moving the goalposts. First you said voting was consent. Now you are saying that the OPTION TO VOTE is consent. You just shot your own argument in the foot!

Start over again and argue why the OPTION TO VOTE is consent, if that is your contention. Stop pussyfooting.


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I don't expect you to ever give in, Franc.

Give in to what? You have basically admitted that you have not even addressed the Challenge question, which is about the "United States of America," NOT "government." So why should I consider you a serious challenger?

Start over and address the actual Challenge question.


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But on this particular point you're wrong, and I showed you why

I have never contended that governments do not exist. So you have not "shown me wrong" on anything yet. You're welcome to try though.


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and I will feel cheated if I do not get my reward.

A reward which, in accordance with the rules of the Challenge, you have yet to earn.

23
Arts & Entertainment / Re: Your Favourite Book and Why?
« on: May 19, 2007, 12:29:33 PM »
As much as I like the flattery, this thread is not actually about me, so I'd recommend you put any such discussions on another thread so I can answer it properly. In fact, this whole diversion should be put on another thread. It's rather unsightly.

24
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 12:27:53 PM »
Christianity is for the dumb.

Now now, that's a gross oversimplification.

You should rather say: Christianity is for the dumb or the immoral.

That just isn't true. Many exceedingly intelligent people are religious.

I wouldn't say "many", but yes there are some. Hence my addendum. They are mostly scam artists, academia whores, and child molestors.

25
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's T-Shirt USA Challenge
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:39:14 AM »
And I'm afraid you aren't up on your verb tenses.

Nice of you to bash a non-english speaker for his not completely perfect use of english, jackass.

26
Arts & Entertainment / Re: Your Favourite Book and Why?
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:33:55 AM »
Based on what I've read here, you like to expose the negative side of America.  Since you are not a native and thus it is not really your business, the only motivation for this that I can see is that you know that at our core we are fundamentally better than you, and thus you seek out as much evidence as you can to discredit us.

Well, I can't really expose or attack what doesn't really exist, now can I?

The fact that I talk about "America" most is because most of the people I talk to, and write for, are supposedly from there. That's all.

As an Anarchist, I reject all governments equally. But like atheists mostly talk about Christianity, I talk about what I know the most. It's just a consequence of not having a hundred years available to study all governments on Earth and why they are bollocks.

And no, I do not think I am superior to anyone. Just better informed. Anyone can figure this stuff out if they'll think for a week or two.

27
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's T-Shirt USA Challenge
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:27:34 AM »
The award will prove as illusionary as the "Republic of Canada."   No such named government exists.  The name of the country is simply "Canada". one word, no modifiers. 

1. The award is not illusory. It has been pledged by myself and other credible individuals. Of course, you don't have a guarantee that we will furnish it, but such is life. I'm not gonna pay a notary to write this up.

2. The Republic of Canada did exist. I'm afraid you are not quite up to your Canadian history there.

28
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Franc's T-Shirt USA Challenge
« on: May 19, 2007, 01:26:03 AM »
Flatty, I was just waiting for someone to bring out the old "voting is consent" argument. Thank you for bringing it up.

You have, unfortunately, not presented a clear argument as to how you go from "we elect our leaders" to "the United States of America exists." Even if your former point was proven, it would not prove the latter, unless you can mount a logical argument on how to go from one to the other.

My friends and I could make up an organization  (such as, say, "Canadians for Global Warming") and start a mock vote for a leader, but existence of the vote does not mean the organization must exist. Even worse, we could beat up other people and make a vote on who gets to dictate the intensity and nature of subsequent beatings, but that would not make us an organization either- just a bunch of criminals deciding how to beat up someone.

Your argument also fails to fulfill the consent burden of proof, for many reasons, including the following:

* Voting in itself is not proof of a consensual action. As Spooner eloquently notes in No Treason, voting is elicited under duress (if you don't vote, other people will take your rights away from you, instead of you taking their rights away from them), and as such cannot be consensual by any legal or moral definition.

In truth, in the case of individuals their actual voting is not to be taken as proof of consent... On the contrary, it is to be considered that, without his consent having even been asked a man finds himself environed by a government that he cannot resist; a government that forces him to pay money renders service, and foregoes the exercise of many of his natural rights, under peril of weighty punishments. He sees, too, that other men practice this tyranny over him by the use of the ballot. He sees further, that, if he will but use the ballot himself, he has some chance of relieving himself from this tyranny of others, by subjecting them to his own. In short, he finds himself, without his consent, so situated that, if he uses the ballot, he may become a master, if he does not use it, he must become a slave. And he has no other alternative than these two. In self-defense, he attempts the former... Doubtless the most miserable of men, under the most oppressive government in the world, if allowed the ballot would use it, if they could see any chance of meliorating their condition. But it would not, therefore, be a legitimate inference that the government itself, that crushes them, was one which they had voluntarily set up, or even consented.

* Even if voting was consensual, it could not represent consent, since there is no option to vote AGAINST the "United States of America." All votes implicitly support the system in place, because they are votes for one candidate against another.

* Even if both points above were true, vote turnouts to federal elections are less than 50%. Ergo, voting can only represent consent of at best 50% of all those who are supposedly in the territory of the "United States of America."

I'm afraid that, unless you post answers to these points or otherwise prove your case, your submission is rejected.

29
Arts & Entertainment / Re: Your Favourite Book and Why?
« on: May 19, 2007, 12:44:04 AM »
Almost all the authors I chose are "Americans," including, obviously, Spooner, so I don't really see your point. Just because I really like one of Dawkins' books doesn't really indicate anything against me- plenty of people admire him.

30
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Christianity and Evolution
« on: May 19, 2007, 12:12:27 AM »
Christianity is for the dumb.

Now now, that's a gross oversimplification.

You should rather say: Christianity is for the dumb or the immoral.

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