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Messages - sceptimatic

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61
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:18:22 AM »
Try harder next time.

62
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:16:12 AM »


Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink.  I have a little magnet on my desk.  This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?

Where does it drain to?  If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
It drains right back into the magnet.

63
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:14:34 AM »
When the air is removed, what then?
You are argueing very easily verifiably demonstratably repeatably observations.
Seriously.
These arent abstract concepts that rely on phd "indoctrinated" physcists to explain.
You could do the experiments yourself to see the results.
Try it.
Atmosphere is never ever removed.

64
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:13:45 AM »
It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.

So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?
Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.


Quote from: sobchak

Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves.  So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet.  Correct?
No.
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a  cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.

The cork or paper will move eventually, if you wait.

So, where are these magnets, if this is what's happening in earth's atmosphere?
They will only move if there is an outlet open for them to move. As in, the plug being slightly released.
This is what is happening consistently with magnets, imo....but it's a trickle flow until something changes it.



65
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:11:01 AM »
Quote
I demand nothing

Rubbish..  you are always asking people to 'explain' things to you.  And then if when they explain things better than you can refute them or better than you can understand them, you simply dismiss them.  Is it a growing trend with you.

I still don't understand where this statement that you are 'in awe' of most scientists.  How can you be in such contempt of everything scientists put forward as evidence and be in awe of them at the same time?!?  Opposite ends of the spectrum.
Calm yourself down and stop the bitterness, Mr nasty.

66
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 03:09:20 AM »
Explain it instead of dodging.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going to happen.
Try it and then explain what happens.
I can clearly see you haven't tried it.
You mean you are clearly using whatever excuse you can to avoid the issue.
The 2 nozzles are drawn towards each other (just like the dust is) and basically latch onto each other. Then the vacuum cleaner starts making a different noise as it is no longer sucking the air through.
There is no sucking of air through, so try again.
And clearly you have not performed this two cleaner experiment.
Semantics.
You know what is meant by "sucking the air through".
Now stop deflecting.
If you think I haven't done the experiment and that you would get a different result, provide it here.
Because even if someone hasn't done the experiment, simple logic shows you are wrong.
There is no way for those 2 sides to repel one another.
The "vortex of air" would cause them to move towards one another.


And try it, I have.

I have two near identical cordless cleaners.
Instead of you going into raptures...you try it.

67
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:18:52 AM »
I never knew you were an expert in astronomy.  Why didn't you tell me?  You seem to have decided on a lot of topics about what there is and isn't evidence for. Maybe I should ask you some more questions on the subject as you are such an authority.

Perhaps for example you could explain why stars disappear behind the Moon on the unlit side of it (eastern side during waxing) and then reappear on the western limb a while later.  This would seem to evidence that something is blocking the light from the star behind from reaching the eye of the observer.  Such as solid rock for example.  Unless you have any alternative explanations for how the light of a hologram can block light from a different source?

As for the wobble of the Earths axis.  This is observable in tiny amounts so that the authors of star charts have to state the epoch for which the star positions are plotted.  You know what observable means yes?  We can see it.  We can measure it.  Is that simple and clear enough for you to understand or shall I just use words of one syllable for you?

Mock astronomy as much as you like but ignorance of the facts won't make them go away.
Washout.

68
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:17:12 AM »
It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.

So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?
Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.


Quote from: sobchak

Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves.  So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet.  Correct?
No.
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a  cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.

Okay, so my magnet is sitting on the table now.  Around it, air is swirling, but swirling so slowly it can not even push a feather.  Inside the solid metal magnet though, the atmosphere flows and the pressure drops, and the swirling intensifies into a vortex of atmosphere inside the magnet. 

Is that right?  If so, where does the vortex of atmosphere go?  The kitchen sink leads to a lower pressure exit, what is the equivalent here?
The vortex is acted upon by the atmosphere. It always attempts to equalise the pressure.

Okay, so my magnet is sitting on the table now.  Around it, air is swirling, but swirling so slowly it can not even push a feather.  Inside the solid metal magnet though, the atmosphere flows and the pressure drops, and the swirling intensifies into a vortex of atmosphere inside the magnet. 

Is that right?  If so, where does the vortex of atmosphere go?  The kitchen sink leads to a lower pressure exit, what is the equivalent here?
Something has to create the pressure difference.
Just like the plug in your sink. If it's left in then the sink full of water stays consistent. If there is a slight bleed from the plug then your water starts to move and change in pressure, slightly.
Add a force to that plug to push it open a little bit more and you gain a pressure change much stronger as create a vortex within that centre.

Now then, here's where we have to assume the water in that sink is the air we are in. The more the water is draining from the sink the more water is added. Or, if you think of atmosphere, the more the atmosphere fills the lower pressure.
The higher pressure is pushing out of the pipe and back into the atmosphere to equalise pressure. It's a loop.
We are in a consistent vortex on Earth starting from the extreme mild to the extreme severe towards the centre...like the sink and plug hole.


No gravity is needed. Just pressures created by different molecular set ups and breakdowns.

69
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:05:16 AM »

That is already very simplified.  What do you have such trouble understanding?  spacetime or curvature?  There is only so far I can dumb it down for someone.
Seeing how the words, spacetime curvature go together, how about you explain them as just that.
If you struggle with that then you can explain spacetime and then the curvature of this space time.

Over to you.
No struggle here, I understand basic concepts pretty well, I also know when you  are playing dumb, well you always do that.  Again what part of the concept do you need help with.  Understand that I'm not gonna get out in the weeds playing semantic games with you.  You have already discussed these topics before.
I'll take that as you not knowing but following it because it's just easier to do.
It's weak but it is what it is and I accept it.
I understand it just fine, and so do you.  I know what you are doing, you know what you are doing, it's silly and unproductive.  Like I said you have discussed these topics before.  Tell you what, when you finish dodging Jack and answer him, I will give you a definition that even you could follow, I might even do it in crayon for you.
Get your crayons out and show me. I ask for the simplest form of explanation, so let's see it.
Your attempts at ridicule are so mild they're almost pleasant.
I welcome the child like explanations.

70
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 02, 2021, 02:02:00 AM »

Quote
There is nothing level about what's in that diagram.
Really?
Because you were claiming the black lines you added as the level sight from the boat and a level sight from the lighthouse.


They would be a level sight from the boat if it was on your silly global Earth set up. Look at the tilt and get your head around it.

The person on the boat would be looking level in normal reality but you people are the one's that think the sight has to dip below level to see opposite objects.
The nonsense is laughable.

71
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 02, 2021, 01:50:30 AM »


What are you using to claim "They are not factoring in any curvature of Earth," when they clearly state they are? I don't understand your argument. It's right there in black & white.
Simple logic is what I'm using.
Even land survey does not use any curvature but the trouble is, you people won't see reality. You prefer to think curving is level. It's absolutely nuts...but, it is what it is, I suppose.

72
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 10:15:54 AM »
It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.

So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?
Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.


Quote from: sobchak

Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves.  So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet.  Correct?
No.
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a  cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.

Okay, so my magnet is sitting on the table now.  Around it, air is swirling, but swirling so slowly it can not even push a feather.  Inside the solid metal magnet though, the atmosphere flows and the pressure drops, and the swirling intensifies into a vortex of atmosphere inside the magnet. 

Is that right?  If so, where does the vortex of atmosphere go?  The kitchen sink leads to a lower pressure exit, what is the equivalent here?
The vortex is acted upon by the atmosphere. It always attempts to equalise the pressure.

73
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 08:05:19 AM »
It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.

So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?
Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.


Quote from: sobchak

Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves.  So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet.  Correct?
No.
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a  cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.

74
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 01, 2021, 07:05:49 AM »


I'm laughing so hard right now. 

Yes, bridge towers tilted away from each other are plumb because they are both level with the center of mass of the Earth.  It's the same reason the ship and lighthouse are level.

You really, truly can't understand the very simple concept, do you? Another display of your astounding ignorance.
The concept is just that. It's not a reality.

If that was your reality then skyscrapers would be so out of plumb as to be in danger of simply falling over.
Your so called plumb and level on your so called globe is absolute utter nonsense. And you feel free to laugh because you're laughing at yourself. It has zero effect on me.


Don't ever use a trade that requires you to use a level. You're likely to deliberately bend it.

75
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: March 01, 2021, 07:01:13 AM »
The picture is true until you show us otherwise.

76
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 06:56:54 AM »
Quote
I demand nothing from you. You are free to disengage at any time

What I meant was you are always demanding people explain things to you. yet we get precise little explanations from you about anything.
I demand nothing. I ask and leave it up to you people to decide what you want to do.

Quote from: Solarwind


 Any 'explanations' we get from you are so vague that they mean nothing.

Yep but you have to understand you are having to see it from my point. The onus is on you to ask the questions in a way that can get me to piece answers to you, like throwing pieces of a jigsaw for you to assemble.
The problem is you people start to become bitter and spend an awful lot of time having a dig at anything I say. This just sets you back to square one and your frustration into accelerated mode.
 
Quote from: Solarwind

You ask us to explain things to you which some people here do to the best of their knowledge and then you just dismiss it as nonsense..
If the explanation means nothing then I will dismiss it. Your mindset should be simplifying it as much as required for a simple person like me to grasp.
Merely telling me it's too complicated for me does not help your case, it just means that I think you have no clue as to the reality of anything you say but are happy to eat anything, unconditionally off the platter that is served to you.

Quote from: Solarwind

  You can claim anything you like but you cannot qualify any of it with actual evidence.
Correct. If I can't then I can't. This goes massively against you. You have no proof except reliance on storylines and diagrams that are physically showing nothing.

77
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 06:44:37 AM »

Regardless though, here is my attempt at a simple description of relativity and spacetime using an analogy, others can contribute, correct, or complain as desired  -

You are sitting on a train, looking at a clock while for some reason holding a ruler.  It is completely dark outside, and the train is almost totally silent.  Suddenly, another train goes by in the opposite direction, and you pass by a lit window where someone else is sitting with an identical ruler in their hands next to an identical clock. 

So how fast did the other train appear to YOU to go by?  Well, if you took some high speed photography, and measured the distance the ruler moved in a set amount of time, you could calculate his APPARENT speed to your position.  If your train was going at 100 kph, and the other train was going at 50 kph, it would APPEAR to YOU that the other train went by you at 150 mph.  Same for the guy on the other train, it would appear to HIM that you went by at 150 mph. 

This is the core of relativity, which is a framework for generalizing such observations and making predictions about how events APPEAR in other moving frames of reference.

Ok, so, If I knew my train was travelling at 100 mph and the other train was moving in the same direction at 1 mph, I'd know it was moving at 1mph in the same direction by using this ruler and clock thing and decide that my train is going 99mph?

But the reality is, I'm travelling at 100mph, regardless. and the other train is travelling at 1mph, regardless.


Is this the premise?

In the framework of relativity, ALL motion is relative and there is no absolute reference point to use for motion.  You are moving 100 mph RELATIVE to the ground.  The other train is moving at 1 mph RELATIVE to the ground.  If you are moving in the same direction, you are moving 99 mph RELATIVE to each other.  If you are moving in opposite directions, you are moving at 101 mph RELATIVE to each other.   
Yeah, I understand it but it's still not a reality from both parties. It's perceived as making one thing marry up with another which may be massively different.
For instance, the person in the 1mph train may perceive his train to be doing 99mph and he is way way out. There's no reality, only intriguing thoughts, as you say.


Quote from: sobchak

Quote from: sobchak

‘Spacetime’ then, is simply this concept; the intertwining of space and time into a single mathematical description that can be used to make quantitative predictions.
So it's all just a concept. It poses to physical reality...right?

Basically there are no facts and yet I'm almost having to accept it even if I do so in a sort of agnostic mindset, rather than just tell it for what I see it as.

Anyone can make this stuff up because there's no proof to it.
That's not any issue too me. Plenty of things d get made up and are/can be intriguing. I'd just rather be told they're not backed up by any real facts and are told as a story of perceivement.

Do you agree?

Anyone can make anything up and those made up ideas can be intriguing, I completely agree.  You for example make up all sorts of stuff, no?
I do. I have many many thoughts/musings on many things. I don't pass them off as factual unless I can actually physically prove them to be so.
I've never hidden from this and neither should you lot.

   
Quote from: sobchak
My question though is always whether what is made up is a good representation of reality of not. 

Do you also agree?
It actually depends on who is looking at it.
Reality can be changed by force of numbers of people who are coaxed into a different thought process. Do you agree?

78
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 06:33:25 AM »
Any chance you want to answer this -

Remember, "I dont know" is a totally acceptable answer.  If you cant explain something it is better to just admit it than pretend otherwise, no?





What happens -

When a charge moves, a magnetic field is generated.  Repeatedly, quantitatively, and predictably.
This is the fundamental basis used to design and engineer incredibly advanced electromagnetic machines and equipment.  Everything is built from this simple observation, and we have used it to progress from making metals stick to a wire when a current is passed through, to MRI machines that can volumetrically image the structures of tissues by using incredibly strong magnets to control the spin on water molecules inside your body!

Have a think about that one.  How could such a machine even exist if we are so completely and fundamentally off in our understanding of magnetism? 
I'm not arguing that.
I'm arguing how it starts.

Then give your argument.  What do you think is happening that is different than the traditional interpretation of electromagnetism?

Start with the magnetized piece of metal sitting on my table. 

Explain it.
Do you agree that to create an electromagnet you have to create a winding.
Do you accept that the winding will create a sort of vortex. a spiral?

I dont have an electromagnet in front of me.  I have a small permanent magnet on my desk.  Im putting my hand around it, feeling for vortexes or spirals of air.  I put a light piece of paper next to it to see if it was fluttering in some slight unfelt wave of air.

Nothing. 

What is going on with it?  Can you explain a permanent magnet or not? 

It is okay to say you can't if you actually can not.
It's not what's happening or felt outside, It's what is happening through it to create what is around it.
It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.
Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?

Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.

79
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:51:38 AM »

No attempt at all to try to salvage the globe. There is no need to salvage it. It is still going quite strong.

Of course it's still going strong in the minds of people like yourself. It's unconditional to you people.

It's unconditional when staring at unconditional evidence:



You're very welcome to that mindset.
To me your so called globe, is dead in the level water.

Sure, all fine and good. But that's not an argument. That's just how you "feel" about it. How about posting up some evidence that actually refutes this?
You're doing that yourself.

Actually no. The image is referred to as "evidence" that is in direct contradiction to your "Opinion". The evidence is not an opinion.

How about posting some actual evidence to support your claim instead of just your feelings on the matter.
That picture is a silly con job and anyone with a small amount of unbiased logic can see that.

Feel free to reproduce and debunk it
You lot debunked it yourselves.

80
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:50:44 AM »


Again, remember this diagram:

You are clearly showing that level is not the same all over Earth.
Level, on a RE, is perpendicular to the direction towards the centre of Earth.
This means it curves, and this curvature is in the vertical direction.

There is nothing level about what's in that diagram.

That's because you still can't understand round earth theory.  Until you do, your arguments will be empty.

Level on a round Earth under gravity is pointing to the center of mass.  Both the ship and the lighthouse are level.  Can you understand that concept?
Soooooo, booth the bridge towers are also plumb then, even though we get told they're tilted away from each other by a small margin?

This is plumb, is it?


You people need to make your mind up.

81
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:48:33 AM »

That is already very simplified.  What do you have such trouble understanding?  spacetime or curvature?  There is only so far I can dumb it down for someone.
Seeing how the words, spacetime curvature go together, how about you explain them as just that.
If you struggle with that then you can explain spacetime and then the curvature of this space time.

Over to you.
No struggle here, I understand basic concepts pretty well, I also know when you  are playing dumb, well you always do that.  Again what part of the concept do you need help with.  Understand that I'm not gonna get out in the weeds playing semantic games with you.  You have already discussed these topics before.
I'll take that as you not knowing but following it because it's just easier to do.
It's weak but it is what it is and I accept it.

82
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:45:20 AM »
Thanks once again for the sentence by sentence analysis of my post Sceptimatic. I didn't expect you to believe any of it since it is a bit beyond you I know.

I really posted it because I thought the others might find it interesting.  I won't find it offensive that you can't bring yourself to believe any of what I've said  I'm used to that kind of thing from you now.

If there is so much evidence available to support your version of things where is it?
Some has been given. Some is firmly with me.


Quote from: Solarwind

 You demand explanations of everything from us yet you cannot explain anything at all from your side.
I demand nothing from you. You are free to disengage at any time. You are also free to say what you want (within forum rules) when you want.
I ask of you. The rest is up to you.


Quote from: Solarwind

 Where is the evidence? And don't just say its all been explained already because you know damn well it hasn't.
All of it hasn't. Some of it has. Most of it you and other refuse to even think on which sets you back to square one. That's down to you.
Try being yourself for once.


Quote from: Solarwind

 That just your poor excuse for dodging the question. So where is your evidence?
I try not to dodge anything but find explaining certain things to be a waste of time with some of you people.


Quote from: Solarwind

Quote
You became duped. In my opinion. Assuming you are telling the truth in the first place.

Why wouldn't I be telling the truth?
You may think you are. I'm saying you are duped. I'm not calling you a liar. You are insinuating that I am. That's down to you.

Quote from: Solarwind

 Why are you so obsessed with people lying all the time.
I'm not obsessed but I simply do not trsut people easily and I have a mindset of, believe nothing and question everything....until....I get enough evidence that gives me food for thought and channels my thinking into acceptance of whatever is set out.

As simple as that.

Quote from: Solarwind

 I asked you this before but you denied it as usual. What would I or anyone else stand to gain by lying all the time about everything that you personally don't believe?
I'm not saying you are lying all of the time. I say you are indoctrinated massively and are almost unconditional to mainstream ideals.
Basically follow by en masse peer pressure, because it's much easier to get along.

83
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:35:17 AM »
Any chance you want to answer this -

Remember, "I dont know" is a totally acceptable answer.  If you cant explain something it is better to just admit it than pretend otherwise, no?





What happens -

When a charge moves, a magnetic field is generated.  Repeatedly, quantitatively, and predictably.
This is the fundamental basis used to design and engineer incredibly advanced electromagnetic machines and equipment.  Everything is built from this simple observation, and we have used it to progress from making metals stick to a wire when a current is passed through, to MRI machines that can volumetrically image the structures of tissues by using incredibly strong magnets to control the spin on water molecules inside your body!

Have a think about that one.  How could such a machine even exist if we are so completely and fundamentally off in our understanding of magnetism? 
I'm not arguing that.
I'm arguing how it starts.

Then give your argument.  What do you think is happening that is different than the traditional interpretation of electromagnetism?

Start with the magnetized piece of metal sitting on my table. 

Explain it.
Do you agree that to create an electromagnet you have to create a winding.
Do you accept that the winding will create a sort of vortex. a spiral?

84
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 04:32:36 AM »

Regardless though, here is my attempt at a simple description of relativity and spacetime using an analogy, others can contribute, correct, or complain as desired  -

You are sitting on a train, looking at a clock while for some reason holding a ruler.  It is completely dark outside, and the train is almost totally silent.  Suddenly, another train goes by in the opposite direction, and you pass by a lit window where someone else is sitting with an identical ruler in their hands next to an identical clock. 

So how fast did the other train appear to YOU to go by?  Well, if you took some high speed photography, and measured the distance the ruler moved in a set amount of time, you could calculate his APPARENT speed to your position.  If your train was going at 100 kph, and the other train was going at 50 kph, it would APPEAR to YOU that the other train went by you at 150 mph.  Same for the guy on the other train, it would appear to HIM that you went by at 150 mph. 

This is the core of relativity, which is a framework for generalizing such observations and making predictions about how events APPEAR in other moving frames of reference.

Ok, so, If I knew my train was travelling at 100 mph and the other train was moving in the same direction at 1 mph, I'd know it was moving at 1mph in the same direction by using this ruler and clock thing and decide that my train is going 99mph?

But the reality is, I'm travelling at 100mph, regardless. and the other train is travelling at 1mph, regardless.


Is this the premise?


 
Quote from: sobchak

The theory of special relativity mathematically builds such predictive frameworks, creating quantitative mathematical formulations for how things look from other points of view.  It adds a special constraint though.   It stipulates that the speed of light is constant no matter what your frame of reference is.  And when you add this constraint to the underlying mathematics, you end up building some new and incredibly interesting predictions about what you should observe.
Predictions for what though?
They are predictions for reality from one person's reference point, just a trick of the mind as to what appears to stand out.





Quote from: sobchak

In the context of our example above, special relativity PREDICTS that if you watched the clock in the other train with incredible precision, you would find that it moved at a very slighter slower rate than the one next to you was running, and if you could somehow measure his ruler with an incredible degree of precision, you would also be PREDICTED to find it was ever so slightly shorter than yours.

You could argue that the person you see wobbling that pencil is just bending it by optical illusion but the reality is, it's a straight pencil being manipulated to your vision.


Quote from: sobchak

This is one of the main predictions of the theory, that observations of both space and time are dependent upon relative frames of reference.
Yes but the frames of reference do not give out real usable answers for anything physical.

 
Quote from: sobchak

‘Spacetime’ then, is simply this concept; the intertwining of space and time into a single mathematical description that can be used to make quantitative predictions.
So it's all just a concept. It poses to physical reality...right?

Basically there are no facts and yet I'm almost having to accept it even if I do so in a sort of agnostic mindset, rather than just tell it for what I see it as.


Anyone can make this stuff up because there's no proof to it.
That's not any issue too me. Plenty of things d get made up and are/can be intriguing. I'd just rather be told they're not backed up by any real facts and are told as a story of perceivement.


Do you agree?

85
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 01, 2021, 03:29:27 AM »
It is your blind irrational hatred which makes you think the globe doesn't make sense.

No. It's not hatred. It's called waking up to the endless amount of bull crap I've realised we're all subjected to from cradle to present

86
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 01, 2021, 03:23:27 AM »


Again, remember this diagram:

You are clearly showing that level is not the same all over Earth.
Level, on a RE, is perpendicular to the direction towards the centre of Earth.
This means it curves, and this curvature is in the vertical direction.

There is nothing level about what's in that diagram.

87
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Lighthouse dipping lights
« on: March 01, 2021, 03:20:16 AM »


Yeah, so what? We both know that we have different definitions of "level" and yours is not what sub engineers/commanders use.

Now, why do you keep avoiding the Crossrail project?
I'm waiting for you to briefly explain what's happening. I'm of a simple mind so explain it to me by simplifying it to the basic.

I already have several times. Here it is again, in my simple, basic, brief own words:

Here's what they did. The engineers found that the existing survey data was insufficient for the complexity of weaving the proposed running tunnels of the Crossrail subway expansion underneath London. So using GPS and other modern geodesy surveying techniques, they were able to reduce the inaccuracies of the original data. They found that the existing survey data, due to the curvature of the earth, had an error range of up to 200mm per km. That was too much for them to accurately weave their new long running tunnels under, through, amid all of the existing infrastructure below London. So with the new more accurate survey data, based upon the curvature of the earth, they were able to reduce that error rate all the way down to just 1mm per km. And you can see by that gif graphic I posted how they had put the those tunnels through all kinds of stuff with just millimeters to spare.

Now the question to you is how do you counter the fact that the engineers engineered with the curvature of the earth in mind and made the project work just as predicted?
Tell me why they couldn't tunnel in a straight and level line?

I don't understand your question or what it may have to do with anything.

The Crossrail engineers re-surveyed the London underground taking into consideration the curvature of the earth in order to get an updated hyper-accurate view into how they could weave their new long running tunnels for the project. The question to you is, how do you explain their accuracy and success and how their survey was predicative to achieve their goals using globe earth calculations/surveys and such? If the earth was flat as you claim, they would have been way wrong in their approach and tunnels would be misaligned, etc. They weren't. They were spot on within a few mm's tolerance. How do you explain the discrepancy between that effort and your world view?
I think trains would be better set up by running on level track...right?
To run on level track it would require level digging.

I have no clue what the hell you're on about with what you are mentioning about a curve.

I've explained it umpteen times now, everytime you've asked. You continue to play the obtuse game. I know why.

The Crossrail engineers found that the existing surveys of the very complex and crowded London underground infrastructure was not accurate enough for them to bore the long running tunnels required for the project. The inaccuracies were 200mm per km due to the CURVATURE OF THE EARTH. They re-surveyed using modern tech and techniques and got the accuracy down to 1mm per km.

As I referenced before, the new London Survey Grid they created used the following parameters/data points:



Notice the references to a spherical (ellipsoid) earth.

So the question to you has been, over and over again, what's your refutation as to what the Crossrail engineers claim, that they mapped out their boring of long running tunnels factoring in the SPHEROID CURVATURE OF THE EARTH?
They are not factoring in any curvature of Earth.

88
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: March 01, 2021, 03:14:41 AM »

I know you so desperately need to pretend it is a con job, but you are yet to provide any justification for why ANYONE should accept it is.

I don't need to pretend. It is in your face and anyone with any unbiased logic will see that.

89
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 03:13:10 AM »
Can you explain this in a very simplistic manner.
Can you explain anything? Anything at all?
Because you have yet again deflected from your complete inability to explain your model, your complete inability to explain why things fall (and why some things don't), or how magnets magically work based upon a vortex of air?
I honestly don't think anything can ever be explained to you that goes against your grain. Seriously.


90
Flat Earth General / Re: ANOTHER EXPERIMENT: Gravity Doesn't Exist
« on: March 01, 2021, 03:11:36 AM »
Explain it instead of dodging.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going to happen.
Try it and then explain what happens.
I can clearly see you haven't tried it.
You mean you are clearly using whatever excuse you can to avoid the issue.
The 2 nozzles are drawn towards each other (just like the dust is) and basically latch onto each other. Then the vacuum cleaner starts making a different noise as it is no longer sucking the air through.

There is no sucking of air through, so try again.
And clearly you have not performed this two cleaner experiment.

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