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Then my genuine advice to you is to concentrate on other things and cast me aside as someone who just spouts nothing.
But that's just the thing. There's nothing for me to ruminate on what's been "said" because you haven't "said" anything yet.
When you can get down to one thing at a time I will happily deal with you.No, it is provable that it is wrong due to the internal contradictions.It's provable but people like you will never get it because your brains are on some kind of spectrum, in my opinion.2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.
That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.
Denpressure:
- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK
What certainly isn't provable are any of your claims.
Every brain is on a spectrum.
The spectrum in question is how much you care about the truth, and things making sense and matching reality.
We are firmly on the end of caring. I care about my beliefs matching reality and making sense and being the truth.
You are firmly on the other end, not caring about the truth at all, being quite happy to spout pure nonsense which makes no sense at all.
Nonsense like claiming there are no pulling forces and everything is actually push, even though you can't even explain something as simple as a chain link, and pure nonsense like magnets are actually the air pushing things, even though you have no explanation at all for the polarity of magnets which directly contradicts your explanation and thus proves it wrong.
Put some real effort in and stop tugging on Jacky's coat tails, for crying out loud.Start to absorb stuff instead of playing games and having digs. You may understand a bit instead of going backwards like you normally do.
Pressure in terms where you say they originate from air.....
Maybe its time you define pressure because its not how everyone else uses that very well defined and understood word.
Absorb what?
You havent said anything of substance
I honestly don't feel my answers to you, compute. I'm beginning to question your reality. Seriously.Then you should easily be able to provide a video clearly showing the "suction" of both and joining them together without any cut to show how they repel one another.And try it, I have.Semantics.There is no sucking of air through, so try again.You mean you are clearly using whatever excuse you can to avoid the issue.Explain it instead of dodging.Try it and then explain what happens.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out what is going to happen.
I can clearly see you haven't tried it.
The 2 nozzles are drawn towards each other (just like the dust is) and basically latch onto each other. Then the vacuum cleaner starts making a different noise as it is no longer sucking the air through.
And clearly you have not performed this two cleaner experiment.
You know what is meant by "sucking the air through".
Now stop deflecting.
If you think I haven't done the experiment and that you would get a different result, provide it here.
Because even if someone hasn't done the experiment, simple logic shows you are wrong.
There is no way for those 2 sides to repel one another.
The "vortex of air" would cause them to move towards one another.
I have two near identical cordless cleaners.
Instead of you going into raptures...you try it.
Can you?
If not, explain why magnets should repel.
Stop dodging and either show the impossible, or explain the impossible.Which shows that your prior comment about it is pure garabge.They will only move if there is an outlet open for them to move. As in, the plug being slightly released.Yes, a slow swirl that creates a larger vortex in the magnet which creates a pressure difference. A high to low pressure difference.It's not like there's some tornado going on outside.So no external swirling vortex of atmosphere?Quote from: sobchakNo.Do you feel the water in a full sink, vortex or do you only feel it when the water is about to go?
Well, in atmosphere you are always in the full sink.
I'll let you think on it.
You only feel the water's movement when it actually moves. So if I think about what you say, you are suggesting as I can not feel any movement, it means the atmosphere isn't moving through or around the magnet. Correct?
If you fill your sink to the top and then place a cork or tiny piece of paper, etc on that surface then take the plug out, the vortex is created towards that plug hole but your cork or paper does not move, hardly, on that surface.
The cork or paper will move eventually, if you wait.
So, where are these magnets, if this is what's happening in earth's atmosphere?
This is what is happening consistently with magnets, imo....but it's a trickle flow until something changes it.
Yes, they move when there is that "vortex" to make things move, which means the same should be happening with the magnet, yet there is no flow of air around a magnet.Something has to create the pressure difference.So what does it for your magnet?No gravity is needed.Why do you need to continually pretend that in real science gravity is involved in everything?
Real science isn't your delusional nonsense where everything is the result of air.
Real science doesn't have gravity involved in magnetism at all.
Stop acting like gravity not being needed is in any way significant to magnetism.Ok, you have to remember that the sink is the analogy as in terms of atmosphere.That is not action/reaction.
You have to remember that the sink never empties. It's always filling as it empties. Action/reaction in equal terms.
Something more akin to action/reaction here is the water leaves the sink and ends up somewhere else.Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.There is no diagram of a magnet that I know of that uses a magical vortex of air like you are claiming.I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.Of course you can't, because once a diagram is provided you get somewhat pinned down by it, which allows people to refute your claims by pointing out massive errors with it.Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.So which is the higher pressure, N or S?
And then your back to the same problem you have been continually dodging, while you can explain the 2 high pressure poles repelling, you can't explain 2 low pressure poles repelling.2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.There is no need to invoke equations there. And without that little caveat, it certainly fits what you are doing, where you are doing your best to obscure reality.Start to absorb stuffSo no more thinking? Just soak everything up like a dumb sponge?
I agree entirely with Sobchak here. I would also like to know more about your model. I don't agree with many things but that doesn't stop me respecting those ideas or the reasons why others do follow or believe in them.Ok, keep that thought process and do not let bullies dictate the way you go about it.
Alternative ideas are healthy and how we make progress. So I stand with Sobchak on the points he raises. But up to now we simply don't know.
I don't blame you. I accept it's difficult for people to grasp my set up and thoughts. After all it is me coming out with stuff that is basically off the chart with how you have been taught/brought up with.
Sure, you can blame me for not understanding your concepts. I certainly could be the one failing here, and your ideas are simple, and I am failing to understand because I just cant think in the proper way.
I personally don't think so, Im happy to entertain any notions at all here, and I'm just trying to understand your model. Right now I dont understand, so here I am, asking again and again for simple descriptions.If you want to understand my model you must first push the served up on a platter model that you've adhered to for best part of your life, otherwise you will simply reference and discard and set yourself back to square one like kabool does and Jacky.
And what I would like to do is be able to understand it well enough to explain it to someone else to your satisfaction. That I think is the ultimate test of communication and what I am striving for here.
If I can do that I will be pleased. I might not agree with it, I might think it is a silly concept, but at least I want to understand the concept itself before making any judgements about it.
Isn't this why you are here, to communicate and talk with people regarding your thoughts and ideas? If you cant communicate your idea to a willing recipient though, what can you hope to accomplish besides just petty sniping and bickering?I'm here to give out my thoughts.
It's provable but people like you will never get it because your brains are on some kind of spectrum, in my opinion.2.When people deliberately make up so called theories with unprovable physical set ups except for equations that only explain obscure concepts.
That's hilarious. You literally just described denpressure except you don't even have any simple equations to back it up.
Denpressure:
- Made up so called theory, CHECK
- Unprovable physical set ups, CHECK
Back to the sinik analogy.Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.It drains right back into the magnet.
Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink. I have a little magnet on my desk. This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?
Where does it drain to? If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
I dont follow. We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right? The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it? But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet?
This is really hard to follow. I hope you realize that. It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others. I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.
Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.
A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?
Here's one diagram:
Yeah, got it regarding pressure versus wind.
How does the pressure know to circle back around and follow the arrows? Regardless of orientation of the magnet? What if I put a magnet in low pressure vacuum, does it de-magnetize?
You don't understand how it works. You are totally reliant on fictional set ups and go with them.
So... because you can't understand how any of that works, it must be all lies.
It can't be that maybe, you simply can't understand it?
What's more likely, the entire world is out to get you, lies and conspiracies everywhere just to fool you... or maybe... you just could be wrong?
The drop is 8 inches per mile squared. Don't pretend it's nothing.Simple logic is what I'm using.You might think you are, but to any sane person you are just repeatedly throwing logic out the window.Thanks for admitting you are just being extremely dishonest.They would be a level sight from the boatQuoteThere is nothing level about what's in that diagram.Really?
Because you were claiming the black lines you added as the level sight from the boat and a level sight from the lighthouse.
This shows you KNOW that on a RE, level is not the same direction everywhere. Instead it is based upon location on Earth.
That means a level line, which is level everywhere along it on the RE WILL CURVE!
That isn't difficult to understand.
So why do you need to continually pretend to not understand?
And no need to dishonestly pretend you are getting confused over level in your fantasy, vs level in reality/the RE, as you were clearly trying to describe level for the RE.
And the same kind of reasoning applies to plumb lines.Tilt is tilt. It is not level and would increasingly build over distance.And as your previous admission has shown, this is just more dishonesty from you.
Your globe is absolutely nonsensical.
You know the globe makes sense.
You know that level tilts as you move around the globe.
This means 2 level objects in different locations will have that level tilted w.r.t. each other.
Likewise, it means any 2 plumb lines in different locations will be tilted w.r.t. each other.
There is no contradiction or problem for the globe.
Again, my simple diagram shows that is the case for anyone honest enough to actually think about it.
The tilt discussed regarding the towers is purely due to the curvature of Earth making the 2 plumb lines tilt w.r.t. each other.
It seems to make sense for anyone, except those with an irrational hatred against it, who decide to repeatedly lie to pretend it doesn't make sense, even though they cannot show any fault with it.
The RE not being the FE, and not following the incorrect claims of the FE does not mean it doesn't make sense.
For a RE it is quite clear what level and plumb mean, and the simple fact is that their orientation depends upon your location.8 inches per mile squared tells you all you need to know about whether it's hardly noticeable.Yes. A mile is 63 360 inches.
So for 1 mile, that drop is 8 parts in 63360, or 0.01%, practically nothing.
For a shorter distance like you suggested before, 1/32 of a mile, then that is 1980 inches for the distance and 1/128 inches.
That is 0.0004 %, even less, and practically nothing.
So yes, as a measurable drop, it is hardly noticeable.
If you would prefer it as an angle, then for 1 mile, you have 8 parts in 63360 which equates to an angle of 26 arc seconds, again, hardly noticeable.
So perhaps you should go away and have a word with yourself.
Don't you also have documentation about men on the moon and probes passing by pluto and billions of miles into space and what not?
I mean, at least I have documentation and the completed project, all of which exist in the physical world, as evidence/proof of how the project was designed and constructed. What more do you want? You can actually ride on/in the completed project.
So yeah, here we are: If anything doesn't fit your belief system, without evidence, you just say someone is lying or something is fake. Again, why do you even bother responding to anyone if your sole argument is that?
I don't see how "they" regarding space travel, have anything to do with engineering and building subways in London. That's really weird that you would make such a connection. Do you use the Space "they" as your argument for everything you don't believe regardless if it has to do with space or not?You can think what you like about they.
Do you know if they're telling the truth?So, no.....I do not believe anyone takes account of any curvature unless they are curving down and back up under bumpy terrain or even flattish terrain, or mountains, or hills.....etc.Definitely not spinning balls in space.
Absolute nuts.
So your argument amounts to "The Crossrail engineers are lying"?
That seems to be your argument for everything - When confronted with any evidence that is contrary to your indoctrinated belief, you simply say it's a lie. Never provide any evidence to counter, it's just a lie. Got it.
But just to be clear, the Crossrail engineers are lying, right?
Start to absorb stuff instead of playing games and having digs. You may understand a bit instead of going backwards like you normally do.
Pressure in terms where you say they originate from air.....
Maybe its time you define pressure because its not how everyone else uses that very well defined and understood word.
Things are simple. They only become complicated for two reasons.I explained and I used diagrams and you simply go into this mode. You're not worth the effort.
I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.
You said that last time for how air pushes down.
Still yet to see anything.
Keep dodging.
Those afflicted by dunning and kruger tend to think things are simple.
Yet... on the other hand you have a real difficult time performing and documenting your experiemtns or drawing diagrams.
Keep at it.
They said they went to the moon. They said they sent contraptions to mars.They said they sent 70's probes billions of miles through a solar system and passed so called planets and took photo's of them and sent that data back to Earth.Simple logic is what I'm using.
What are you using to claim "They are not factoring in any curvature of Earth," when they clearly state they are? I don't understand your argument. It's right there in black & white.
Even land survey does not use any curvature but the trouble is, you people won't see reality. You prefer to think curving is level. It's absolutely nuts...but, it is what it is, I suppose.
So your argument is that the Crossrail engineers did not account for the Curvature of the Earth in their surveys for planning and implementing the long running tunnels under London?
Even though they said they did?
My advice to you would be to go into a room by yourself...sit down and put your mind to what's been said.Try harder next time.
What's the con job again? Why won't you at least express what you think is wrong with the image that clearly shows the horizon does not rise to eye-level with altitude? "Try harder next time," is just a dodge.
It's basically the same experiment as you had originally suggested to see if the horizon always stays at eye-level. Instead of a tube, it's a box. And this one is even better because it has the leveling fluids fore and aft with the cross-string to show that the instrument and view from the camera is definitely level.
Yep but in pressure terms not in a wind term.Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.It drains right back into the magnet.
Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink. I have a little magnet on my desk. This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?
Where does it drain to? If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
I dont follow. We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right? The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it? But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet?
This is really hard to follow. I hope you realize that. It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others. I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.
Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.
A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
I'm confused. Looking at some magnet diagrams, are you saying that it's the air that is traveling along all the different directions of arrows?
Here's one diagram:
I explained and I used diagrams and you simply go into this mode. You're not worth the effort.
I can try and help with a diagram but not just yet.
You said that last time for how air pushes down.
Still yet to see anything.
Keep dodging.
That doesn't explain anything to me other than moving electrons being aligned.How does the conventional model work and what makes it work? Let's see where we go from that.
I cant understand what you think is happening from looking a diagram of a magnet. Would need your help here, and is in fact the only question I have been asking for the past few pages - how does your view of how my little magnet in front of me differ from the conventional model.
Can you simply explain it?
Sure.
Moving charges create a magnetic field.
In all materials there are moving charges (electrons)
In materials with specific configurations of electrons, the movement of electrons can be aligned to create a net magnetic field that results from this aligned movement of electrons.
I don't believe it's difficult.
Then unmix me. I am reading every word you write with an open mind, trying my hardest to understand the concept you are trying to get across. Yet at this point, Im still not able to reach a core understanding. I go back and reread what you wrote, trying to parse it down to its basics, I think about the conceptualization in my free time. What more can I do?
Why is your concept, if it is so simple to you, so incredibly difficult to pass on clearly to others?
Ahhhh, right, so you're bending the vision over a curve now, are you.
I'm sure you've ignored this before but for those that care.
8 inches per mile squared tells you all you need to know about whether it's hardly noticeable.
The drawings, to scale shows the tilt, too little to notice over 20 miles, that shows you all you need to know.
global energt crisis could be solved by hooking up wind turbines to all of sceppy's hand waving (and the GOP).There is no global energy crisis.
How does the conventional model work and what makes it work? Let's see where we go from that.
I cant understand what you think is happening from looking a diagram of a magnet. Would need your help here, and is in fact the only question I have been asking for the past few pages - how does your view of how my little magnet in front of me differ from the conventional model.
You're getting mixed up.Ok, you have to remember that the sink is the analogy as in terms of atmosphere.
I dont follow. We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right? The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?
But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet?
This is really hard to follow. I hope you realize that. It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others. I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.
You have to remember that the sink never empties. It's always filling as it empties. Action/reaction in equal terms.
Yeah, you are losing me here. You use the sink as a description, but then it is not like a sink after all.
The best thing you could do is clearly and simply state what the atmosphere is doing around / in my little magnet on my desk. All I can sort of understand is that air is somehow continually being pulled into the solid metal into some sort of vortex at the center. But since it is continually being pulled into the magnet, it seems like it has to go somewhere, but I don't understand where it goes. You say it pours back into the magnet, but it still hasn't left the magnet at this point, so this doesnt make any sense to me.
Can you state what is happening with the flow of air and its relationship to the magnet on the table more clearly? Where does it enter the metal? Does it exit? Does it go from high to low pressure going into the magnet, then from low to high as it exits?
I am really struggling to form a cohesive view of how you imagine this is happening. Can you clarify further or is communicating your ideas not really possible at the moment?
8 inches per mile squared tells you all you need to know about whether it's hardly noticeable.
Those two lines reaching up are radius lines from the centre of the earth (so plumb), so they both have tilt opposite to each other, but it hardly noticeable because of the size of the earth.
It is your argument that is absolutely nonsensical.
Just take a look at the diagram of a magnet and it will give you a better clue.It drains right back into the magnet.
Okay, so we are in a fluid like in a sink. I have a little magnet on my desk. This fluid that we are in (the air) is draining through a vortex in my little magnet on the desk?
Where does it drain to? If we use a sink as a analogy, it doesnt drain back into itself, right?
I dont follow. We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right? The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it? But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet?
This is really hard to follow. I hope you realize that. It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others. I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.
Maube sceppy could draw this vortex on a map-map.
A diagram of any sorts would be incredibly useful.
Atmosphere as in all matter can not be free. It all has to be connected.When the air is removed, what then?Atmosphere is never ever removed.
You are argueing very easily verifiably demonstratably repeatably observations.
Seriously.
These arent abstract concepts that rely on phd "indoctrinated" physcists to explain.
You could do the experiments yourself to see the results.
Try it.
What if it is removed to an insignificant amount?
Are you saying that this cant be done?
Because youve already previously agreeed to this.
And if its there in a minor minor amount, what inherent mechanism is there that allows it to operate regardless of amount?
Becuase a compass or magnet will spin regardless of how much air pressure (in the traditional sense) is acting upon it.
Ok, you have to remember that the sink is the analogy as in terms of atmosphere.
I dont follow. We are imagining it is like a sink with a hole, right? The water flows out of the hole and goes somewhere else, it doesnt flow back into the hole does it?
But somehow in the magnet case, the magnet pulls atmosphere though it like a drain, but then air drains back into the magnet?
This is really hard to follow. I hope you realize that. It might seem clear in your mind, but you are not communicating it clearly to others. I am trying as hard as I can to understand the idea you have thought up but I am really struggling to grasp it.
Tilt is tilt. It is not level and would increasingly build over distance.
This is the amount of tilt you get over a 20 mile length, close up and then encompassing the span, it's hardly discernible so your appalling drawing is redundant.
The 0.02 (mile) equals just over 100 feet, and the pink line links the tops of the two lines 20 miles apart, looks level doesn't it? Well within real viewing limits of seemingly level.
This is why scale matters.
Click to expand
Drawn to scale in Rhino.
