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Messages - Art

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121
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Earth appears curved from Mt Everest
« on: July 19, 2012, 08:36:30 AM »
I was careful to point out in the OP that the photographer concluded it was an illusion,
however the fact remains, from someone who's been there, the Earth appears curved from that height.
It has been mentioned several times that the most compelling reason (for some members here) for the belief in FE theory
is through simple observation.

122
Flat Earth Debate / Earth appears curved from Mt Everest
« on: July 18, 2012, 07:05:25 PM »
I love this one from Tom Bishop:

Quote
The earth is not even curved from the top of Mt. Everest: http://www.panoramas.dk/fullscreen2/full22.html
Who apparently did not bother to read the photographer's comments posted right below the panorama:

Quote
It seemed to me that the curvature of the earth was apparent, and I spent some time trying to think of a means to test if this was a real observation or an illusion. In the end I decided it was an illusion, but it was a strong illusion. Overall my main feeling was of surprise. I am often surprised by the situations that I find myself in.

So he thinks it's an illusion, but obviously sees something you don't see in the photograph.
He observes that the Earth is curved.
:D

123
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Numbers for paths of sun and moon
« on: July 18, 2012, 05:04:02 PM »

Good luck with that.
If the question is too hard, it does not get an answer,



124
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 17, 2012, 06:41:29 PM »
And for that matter, how does it set if it's always overhead? This question has never been answered, although I believe I've asked it in several threads.
That is answered in the FAQ, it apparently becomes smaller as it becomes distant.
Why it appears to set on a vertical plane, I'm sure there's some explanation for that.

It would be interesting as a programmer to bring a model of this flat Earth to life,
but the input data cannot be provided, so the outcome will always be false for
that reason, rather than FET being just plain incorrect.

It smells a bit like a religious debate where the Deist side can't prove anything,
but they can reject any and all evidence used against them. It goes nowhere.
At least they can present a model of the way they think things are (properly).

I feel I've spent too much time on this forum for that reason.

125
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 17, 2012, 08:13:29 AM »
Every cartographer that I have known, all two of them, have made flat maps.  I wonder why?

Because our screens and paper are flat,
And we have to read from them unless we carry a sphere around.

I read the FAQ.
It illustrates the Sun's movement in a perfect circle
Of which the radius varies according to season.
The Sun rises and sets at different times every day.
This isn't explained in the FAQ.
If I produced a model of the Sun rotating around a flat Earth
Using data provided by this forum,
There would be inconsistency in the areas of
The Earth lit at any given time.

You don't need to survey the Earth to produce a map.
Our spherical coordinate system works.
Doesn't matter if it's premise is false.

So in what pattern does the Sun move around the
disc of the Earth to give the effect of differing
Rise and set times daily? And the moon
for that matter..

126
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 15, 2012, 02:05:08 PM »
There are two very large expanses of ocean there to cover with radio towers floating on water, and high enough to provide a 3D position fix.

Does the Sun travel in a circle around the disc halfway
Through it's radius?
How are seasons accounted for? And why does Sunrise/set time
change daily?

127
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 14, 2012, 08:33:12 PM »
I think I could prove FET false if this map is generally accepted as a true representation of the Earth:


It would take too much time for something that is frivolous in my opinion,
and also, I think it would also make me a government conspirator, and my information invalidated here.

An algorithm could be written to translate coordinates obtained from the GPS system,
or some automatically generated stream of coordinates that simulate movement
to their positions on a FET map of the Earth.
If movement at various angles across the apparent disc of the Earth were simulated at constant speed,
Movement tracking on the FET map would accelerate or deccelerate in predictable  areas if RET is correct.





128
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 14, 2012, 07:19:32 PM »
My first question was related specifically to geostationary sats,
and the question (the sentence with a question mark over it) :
"Does that not sound like a greater feat then sending a shuttle to the moon?"
has not been addressed, and by that, I mean suspending any object capable of
receiving and retransmitting radio signals in space for a number of years.

Programmers don't have to do the math to calculate the movement of celestial bodies
if the math already exists, but they do have to have some understanding of it to
implement it into a working program.
I don't work as a programmer, but have completed this as late as last week as part of
a GPS program for iPhone (GPS is a whole other subject).



This is all very fresh in my mind. The formulas work, and can predict accurately for as
long as you or I will live or have lived.
The reason I (as a flat Earth believer) would want to see the formulas reproduced properly
is for the sake of evidence and knowledge.
To explain why the Sun takes longer to set in the polar regions, why the moon phase appears
upside down in one hemisphere as opposed to the other, I could keep going.
If FET is anything other than conjecture, these formulas would be much easier to produce than
existing ones built on false information that happen to work.
I think it fundamental actually, in proving the Sun is the size you think it is, the path of the Sun
and moon follow FET.

Hypothesis, Numbers and demonstrability, repeatability, and results. That's what Science is.




129
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Proof that Earth is not flat
« on: July 13, 2012, 09:06:15 PM »
It interests me that every GPS manufacturer has to be in on the conspiracy. Not just the US government.
If the GPS system relied on Earth based towers, it would never be able to determine the user's elevation (valid 3D position fix).
Also, the towers would have to cover the Earth completely.


130
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 13, 2012, 08:41:51 PM »
Hmm, well I didn't expect a reply with a lot of quotes that didn't address any of my questions at all.

Geo-stationery satellites have nothing to do with the GPS system.
They are said to orbit the Earth at the same speed as the Earth's rotation,
so from our perspective, they remain stationery in the sky.
The equipment that receives their signal is quite rudimentary.
The dish must be pointed directly at the satellite with little margin for error to receive a signal from them,
The dish is not pointed at a tower on Earth, or any object moving across the sky,
It sits on the side of a house for years pointing in the same direction.

Quote
Why should TFES bother to make computer programs to calculate the sunrise and sunset?  Obviously, these already exist.  That does not mean they are using round Earth data in these computer programs.  It just means they tell you they are.
You are correct that they do exist.
Problem for you is, the authors of such algorithms begin with the presupposition that the Earth and celestial bodies are round,
take into account the diameter of the Sun & moon which is false according to the flat Earth theory of a 35 mile wide Sun,
and produce results which are correct to the minute assuming the observer is looking at an apparent flat horizon (no mountains in the way of the Sunset view).







131
Flat Earth Q&A / Flat Earth Theory Qs
« on: July 13, 2012, 10:24:31 AM »
Hi,
First post, from Australia, where we like to live on the edge!!!
I came straight here with questions from any genuine believer rather than for debate (although I'm up for one).
I have spent some time reading the FAQ, and some posts. Understand you don't want to answer
the same questions over & over, etc. Forgive that I can't digest the entire concept and forum quickly!

Funny that this week I considered what I'd think of the lunar cycle if I lived in an era when the majority believed the Earth was flat.

Q1: I read about the GPS system in the FAQ, but no information on what are called geostationary satellites.
These are the type that hover over a continent transmitting pay TV among other information.
According to a flat Earth theory, these would have to hover over the Earth in an almost stationery position
for many years with very little deviation in their position, since many dishes on Earth are focussing their beam
into a LNB connected to their sat TV decoders.
Does that not sound like a greater feat then sending a shuttle to the moon?

Q2:
How is a computer program able to use trigonometry to calculate Sun & moon rise and set times (past, present, and future)
using formulas that take into account fictitious diameters of celestial bodies and degrees of atmospheric refraction?
Could a flat Earth theory based formula ever possibly be used to calculate past present and future Sun & moon rise and set times?
I would like to see one that takes into account FET movement, distance, and size of these celestial objects.

Thanks, Art.

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