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Messages - legion

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31
Needless to say the Earth is not flat. This has been proven beyond all doubt by over a thousand years of intellectual enlightenment, yet flat earthers reject the progess of society with inadequate justification,desperately grasping at mere plausibility and calling it "proof". My question is why? Why just haphazardly throw out years and years of scientific exploration that produced a valid model of our world. I can agree with the questioning of established knowledge, if said questioning displays valid objections, the notion of a flat earth is not a valid objection.

I am well aware that many who claim to hold this irrational belief may be doing so for their own entertainment, however it would appear that in the recent weeks I have browsed these forums, more and more have joined who seem genuine. More worrying is that many of these new believers claim to have children and entertain the possibility of educating them in these falsehoods. I sincerely hope that this doesn't lead to flat earth perpetuating itself. I will likely post more musings later. For now focus on my earlier question.

Please do highlight fallacies and discrepancies, I would like to improve my arguments. I may be newly registered but I have observed the forums for quite some time and am familiar with many of the frequent users and their posts. Thank you. I look forward to replies.

Your first sentence contained a fallacy, you complete and utter fool. Proof by assertion to be specific. "Needless to say the earth is not flat."

And then you give no evidence whatsoever to validate your assertion.

Look in the mirror much?

What do mirrors have to do with this thread, round and stupid?

32
Needless to say the Earth is not flat. This has been proven beyond all doubt by over a thousand years of intellectual enlightenment, yet flat earthers reject the progess of society with inadequate justification,desperately grasping at mere plausibility and calling it "proof". My question is why? Why just haphazardly throw out years and years of scientific exploration that produced a valid model of our world. I can agree with the questioning of established knowledge, if said questioning displays valid objections, the notion of a flat earth is not a valid objection.

I am well aware that many who claim to hold this irrational belief may be doing so for their own entertainment, however it would appear that in the recent weeks I have browsed these forums, more and more have joined who seem genuine. More worrying is that many of these new believers claim to have children and entertain the possibility of educating them in these falsehoods. I sincerely hope that this doesn't lead to flat earth perpetuating itself. I will likely post more musings later. For now focus on my earlier question.

Please do highlight fallacies and discrepancies, I would like to improve my arguments. I may be newly registered but I have observed the forums for quite some time and am familiar with many of the frequent users and their posts. Thank you. I look forward to replies.

Your first sentence contained a fallacy, you complete and utter fool. Proof by assertion to be specific. "Needless to say the earth is not flat."

And then you give no evidence whatsoever to validate your assertion.


33
Flat Earth General / Re: Virgin Galactic
« on: March 25, 2016, 02:17:05 PM »
NO U!!!

NO U!!!

I think they're trying humour again. They are as bad at that as they are at reasoning. What sort of person would join this forum with a username like "round and proud".

Only a troll. A troll that needs to be ignored.

34
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 03:54:17 PM »
Here is a photo of a NASA Gulfstream with what could easily be a spotlight/projector slung beneath it:



There is also something else in this photo...

Can any of you see what it is?
The radar pod?

You're feeding the Troll

You are the troll. On your way mindless space cultist.

35
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 03:43:21 PM »
Did you try reading the previous page?

What?

Did you try reading the previous page?

What?

Did you try reading the previous page?

sockpuppet, which post in the previous page? I saw nothing helpful to you space cultists, so you'll have to direct me somewhere that you believe makes your position less embarrassing.

36
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 03:35:03 PM »

37
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 03:01:17 PM »
No, the iss is not real.

Confusing your opinion with fact again, I see.

Quote
I have yet to see any evidence that suggests it's anything more than a meme to encourage scientism.

See... you admit that your opinion (stated as a fact) is based on no evidence. BTW, nice job wording so it obfuscates your lack of evidence that it is "a meme to encourage scientism"; if you did have such evidence, you'd simply present it. You have no evidence either way, i.e. no evidence at all.

You specialize in that, don't you?

Yes, I do specialise in pointing out a lack evidence. Thanks for noticing.

You said you had no evidence, not that there's a lack of evidence. See the difference?

Quote
I have seen no evidence that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Many people believe it does exist, but that doesn't make it true. I see alien life as yet-another-meme to encourage scientism.

At least you stated your opinion as an opinion this time. Better. Thanks!

Quote

I'm a little more demanding than you space cultists.


Demanding of what? You happily form an opinion without evidence and and brag about not having evidence for it. I'm not sure that's a good thing.

So... are you going to try to justify making an argument from incredulity, or are you going to provide some evidence (not just more empty talk, please) that the ISS is "a meme to encourage scientism"? I'll wait.

Nice to see you are trying to learn logic. About time too. Let me add to your learning:

1. The "evidence" you space cultists have for the iss thing being real is: some youtube videos, a few random internet photos, and maths. All of which are easily faked or misunderstood.

2. The evidence I have that it is all fake memes-for-scientism is point 1.

Seeing as nobody has given any compelling evidence to suggest that the apollo missions were genuine (in feuk's thread), I must conclude that you space cultists have been fooled ever since the 1960's.

I am of course prepared to adjust my position should any evidence be presented.




38
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 02:34:35 PM »
Did you try reading the previous page?

What?

39
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 02:21:05 PM »
No, the iss is not real.

Confusing your opinion with fact again, I see.

Quote
I have yet to see any evidence that suggests it's anything more than a meme to encourage scientism.

See... you admit that your opinion (stated as a fact) is based on no evidence. BTW, nice job wording so it obfuscates your lack of evidence that it is "a meme to encourage scientism"; if you did have such evidence, you'd simply present it. You have no evidence either way, i.e. no evidence at all.

You specialize in that, don't you?

Yes, I do specialise in pointing out a lack evidence. Thanks for noticing.

I have seen no evidence that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Many people believe it does exist, but that doesn't make it true. I see alien life as yet-another-meme to encourage scientism. I'm a little more demanding than you space cultists.


40
Flat Earth General / Re: Virgin Galactic
« on: March 24, 2016, 01:27:45 PM »
This thread again? It least it shows very plainly the faith these space cultists have. It's all about belief, nothing more. We knew that though.

PL, tappet, scepti, hoppy, (many others), and myself have no such faith in scientism. And that makes the space cultists unhappy. Well, boo hoo losers. As PL said, you aren't going to space you big, daft, adult babies!


41
Flat Earth General / Re: Flat Earth Logical Fallacies
« on: March 24, 2016, 01:17:47 PM »
Wow, you are so smart.  You claim that you have not been lied to.  I should believe everything that you say, right, sage?

I see you have nothing else to say.

I have seen no evidence to suggest that you are not an idiot. I also believe you would be an idiot in a vacuum.

Happy now?

42
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 24, 2016, 01:14:37 PM »
Guys Fellow trolls, Papa's premise is that no matter what any of us has to say, he believes knows we are just trying to spout false information in order to convince him that NASA, science or anything else for that matter is true. So there's really nothing left to say, he won't ever concede any point, so I ask again, why bother?

He admits he believes that everyone people like us are shills that are paid to silence him (yes, he loves that attention). I only laugh at that kind of paranoia but really, I hope you do this out of boredom because I don't see point in trying to argue with a dead body thinker.

And by the way, ISS is real and earth is round, no matter what they say. It is evidenced and documented.

Off to to the flat earthers to demonstrate the contrary.

I fixed some of your errors. No, the iss is not real. I have yet to see any evidence that suggests it's anything more than a meme to encourage scientism. Look that up as I doubt you've ever heard of the word.

43
Flat Earth General / Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« on: March 18, 2016, 02:38:14 PM »
Could I see your "observations" so I can attempt to replicate them?

Do your own observations.

I'm sorry if I can out as rude when I put quotes around the word observations. I do, however, would like to know what you observed and how you observed it so I can replicate and see it with my own eyes.

1. Fully blow up a party balloon.
2. Observe what happens when you release the air whilst still holding the balloon.
3. Does the balloon "bulge" at the end opposite to where the air is escaping?

Is that too hard for you to do for yourself? Get your parents to help if you're struggling.

44
Flat Earth General / Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« on: March 18, 2016, 02:23:26 PM »
Could I see your "observations" so I can attempt to replicate them?

Do your own observations.

45
Flat Earth General / Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« on: March 18, 2016, 01:38:58 PM »
And yet, here you are!


And you have still not provided any peer reviewed math or experiments that support your views, I mean opinion. Because that is all you have OPINION.

We have peer reviewed math and peer reviewed experimentation.

What you have is this (https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/BGP/Shari_N/propulsion_act.htm):



Which is easily testable and refutable at home. Thus, what you believe is based on easily refutable bullshit, no matter what the mathematics might claim.

Bring forth some maths then to say why they wont work.

A vacuum chamber and mini rocket can be knocked up at home. And HAVE been tested by peter leane and the like. Rocket worked in a vacuum. So... prove us wrong.

I don't need a vacuum chamber. I have tested and refuted the graphic provided by nasa (which also doesn't need a vacuum chamber).

No maths required. Just observation.

46
Flat Earth General / Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« on: March 18, 2016, 01:23:01 PM »
And yet, here you are!


And you have still not provided any peer reviewed math or experiments that support your views, I mean opinion. Because that is all you have OPINION.

We have peer reviewed math and peer reviewed experimentation.

What you have is this (https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/BGP/Shari_N/propulsion_act.htm):



Which is easily testable and refutable at home. Thus, what you believe is based on easily refutable bullshit, no matter what the mathematics might claim.

47
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 16, 2016, 01:53:31 PM »
lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/4aeze6/i_took_a_picture_of_the_international_space/

lol

Gulfstream

lol

Once saw the ISS with a friend's telescope, it looked like that. Tried to explain it here, posted a similar picture, but I was told it wasn't really the ISS but something made to look like it. So don't even bother

Of course you did! Cool story. Thanks for the valuable eye witness testimony: "^^^ it looked just like that! ^^^"

Who did the tracking, you, or your friend? Was it in black and white like the photo? How long ago was this sighting? Did you take notes?

48
Flat Earth General / Re: moon hoax information index.
« on: March 12, 2016, 01:27:33 PM »
I sure have noticed buddy. No idea what they think they're up to though.

My guess is they're just trying to make this place as toxic an environment as possible, whilst making up for the fact they have no sense of humour of their own by stealing other people's jokes.

Did you check out the JREF forum I mentioned btw?

If so, you'll notice the posters methods are EXACTLY the same as the clown derfers here; it's a well-spring of shillery for the entire internet.

It's the hub of the pseudo-skeptic movement & was started mainly to fight on behalf of big pharma against holistic medicine.

What is interesting is how the shills here are also anti-holistic inasmuch as they refuse to see things as a whole & strive to divide everything into an ultimately meaningless reductio ad absurdum...

Like, a rocket is not ONE object, it is 2, or 20, or 200 or 2000; or a gas does not behave as a whole but as individual clinking-clanking billiard-ball molecules...

The same could be said for their entire rickety clockwork cosmology in fact.

I believe this movement to be led by a few very cynical Shill leaders (hi markjo!), with a horde of Aspergers-affected Saps (hi sokarul & mikeman!) following their orders.

Then there's the blackmailed paedophiles Military Intelligence loves to employ to chuck in the mix too (hi Rayzor!); seems they've all decided to work together against myself for now...

Lulzy!

These entities all deliberately set out to target, infiltrate & take over any website or forum that stands against their sick agenda...

And they have clearly succeeded here.

It's a filthy, rotten business, as sordid as anything you could imagine...

But it's a Job, I guess?

Albeit one fit only for psychopaths.

I generally put it down to the amount of stupid people who wrongly believe themselves to be clever. We've got loads of them here. I believe they flock around markjo because they are impressed by his post count. The indoctrinated are easily impressed. But, you may be right and the trolls are paying a debt to their masters by disrupting our discussions here. Because that is all they do. Disrupt.

Yep, I looked at that forum (briefly). It's not for me, that's for sure.

49
If the ISS is real why are they doing this? Please watch this video.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"> [url]]] [url] [/url]

Then watch This video. It explains the grid blue screen they use.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

Nice find yendor. May require a new thread for discussion?

50
Flat Earth General / Re: moon hoax information index.
« on: March 12, 2016, 07:11:20 AM »
Hey legion.

Me & feuk alluded to it briefly, but have you noticed this weird mimicking/mirroring thing all the sock/shills been doing recently too?

They started in late December, as if it was a plan.

Feuk thinks it may be a bot thing, but I'm more on the side of it being a blackmailed slave thing...

Operation Ore netted a LOT of useful idiots, I know this for a fact.

Whatever, we both noticed it; you got an opinion?

I sure have noticed buddy. No idea what they think they're up to though. No care either to be honest. Best to just ignore them and not let them get under your skin. globfunk seems close to the breakdown I predicted. It's probably a matter of days now.

I take it we still haven't any evidence or rational arguments put forward to defend the "moon landings"?

That's the indoctrinated for you. They'll cry, shout, scream and stomp about leaving the truth plain to see for the thinkers. 

51
Flat Earth General / Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« on: March 11, 2016, 01:48:57 PM »
Kindly quote your answer then... I cannot find it.

Here it is, dumb little shill who just keeps spamming bullshit even though he's been busted as a shill repeatedly...

It was in the exact same post you claimed to be replying to when you were in fact replying to the post I was writing at the time, you utterly, utterly USELESS little shill.

If a rocket pushed of atmosphere. Which it quite clearly does not. Why do they gain thrust with altitude?

Already explained.

But you ignored it.

Because Lying Disinfo-bullshitter.

You may want to check out my last post about the Rak.1 & then learn how nozzles are tuned to specific back-pressures though.

NOW GTFO MY THREAD, LIAR!

If you're so smart why don't you show us teh szienzz an experimints proving that the force of the atmosphere is what pushes teh rohkkets up? Oh, wait, you don't have any, silly me.

Alternatively, you could cite an experiment that shows that the atmosphere cannot provide such a force.

The burden of proof is on the thinkers and the indoctrinated.

Find an experiment to prove your position and you win. Off you go.

Newton's third law is independent of wheter there is atmosphere or not.

What?

52
Flat Earth General / Re: Rockets cannot work in a Vacuum.
« on: March 11, 2016, 01:45:45 PM »
Kindly quote your answer then... I cannot find it.

Here it is, dumb little shill who just keeps spamming bullshit even though he's been busted as a shill repeatedly...

It was in the exact same post you claimed to be replying to when you were in fact replying to the post I was writing at the time, you utterly, utterly USELESS little shill.

If a rocket pushed of atmosphere. Which it quite clearly does not. Why do they gain thrust with altitude?

Already explained.

But you ignored it.

Because Lying Disinfo-bullshitter.

You may want to check out my last post about the Rak.1 & then learn how nozzles are tuned to specific back-pressures though.

NOW GTFO MY THREAD, LIAR!

If you're so smart why don't you show us teh szienzz an experimints proving that the force of the atmosphere is what pushes teh rohkkets up? Oh, wait, you don't have any, silly me.

Alternatively, you could cite an experiment that shows that the atmosphere cannot provide such a force.

The burden of proof is on the thinkers and the indoctrinated.

Find an experiment to prove your position and you win. Off you go.

53
Flat Earth General / Re: moon hoax information index.
« on: March 11, 2016, 01:37:02 PM »
Wow. The indoctrinated are unbelievable. I suppose that when you are invested in a false truth, you must defend it with all your (puny) might.

As usual though, they lost on page one. It's become embarrassing.

54
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 05, 2016, 02:31:51 PM »
Funny how no body wants to describe what they saw.

tappet, it's quite obvious: they saw what everyone else saw. The iss meme thingy.

But, when you ask for details, the meme breaks down.

Seen it all before, many times, from people who just want to fit in.

The Indoctrinated: post a photo that you took yourself, and if I can't find your "unique" photo on the net, we can happily chat about hardware, setup, focal lengths etc. so the unindoctrinated can replicate your results. Because SCIENCE must be reproducible. Not just a matter of:

"look at it with your own eyes, and then you will know!!!"

That sounds like a scientism based religion to me.

55
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 04, 2016, 01:23:19 PM »
Quote
Binoculars for High Altitude Plane Spotting

If you plan on using your binoculars exclusively for spotting planes flying at full altitude and want a pair that are strong enough to spot and recognize the airline and plane type then obviously a pair of binoculars with a very high magnification is key.

High Magnifications
There are a few down sides to using binoculars with very high magnifications, which include image shake and a reduced field of view:

Image Shake

As you increase the magnification on a pair of binoculars it becomes harder and harder to hold the image that you see through the optics still (any hand movements become more and more magnified). This "image shake" can get very annoying, make it more difficult to keep what you are looking at in view and can make it hard to identify the plane that you are spotting.

As a general rule of thumb, any magnification over 10x is considered reasonably high for hand-held binoculars, with 12x high powered and 20x or 25x considered very high powered. Almost everyone will quite easily be able to hand hold a 10x and 12x bin without too much trouble and be able to keep the image still enought to follow and observe a plane.

The larger 20x and 25x bins will also almost certainly also have larger objective lenses, which makes the device larger and heavier. So as well as making it harder to keep the image still, you now also have to hold up a heavier weight, which can get tiring, especially if you are always looking up above your head. I can quite easily hold the Celestron SkyMaster 25x70 Binoculars and keep the image still enough to view planes for short durations, but over longer periods, you really do need some sort of support.

[From further down the page]...

Field of View
In general as you increase the magnification on a pair of binoculars your field of view (the width of the image that you see through your optics) reduces. A wide field of view is most important to those needing to scan wide areas or for those wanting to follow fast moving or erratic objects like birds. So in general I would not worry too much about the field of view for plane spotting at high altitudes, but if you have the choice between two that are similar, go for the one with a wider field of view as a wider view definitly makes it easier to locate and follow the airplane, especially if you are using a tripod.


-- http://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/aircraft-aeroplane-spotting-binoculars.php


So, I think we can agree that "just look at the iss thing with binoculars!" is a load of shit.

Careful planning and, dare I say it, lots of time to practice and money investment are required.

Hence, I believe most (or all) of you space cultists are bare faced liars.

56
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 04, 2016, 01:15:58 PM »
Well that's sounds easy doesn't it everybody?
I encourage everyone to grab their binoculars go outside and focus on a bird.
Then imagine trying to focus on a fast moving dot in the sky.
No body is looking at the ISS through binoculars, you guys are full of shit.
You're right.  Binoculars are absolutely useless for watching fast moving objects in the sky. ::)


What's that? An advert from a binocular manufacturer?

57
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 04, 2016, 12:47:37 PM »
So you've never actually bothered to look then.

The ISS is easy to see with naked eye and binoculars.
I struggle to focus the bloody things to find a bird sitting on a tree branch.
You must have it sorted to adjust the focus on a quick flash up in the sky.

Firstly I suggest you practise holding your binoculars or you could fork out for a tripod which makes life even easier.


You have never used binoculars, that is quite obvious. I did not realise the ISS is standing still so you can use a tripod. I would pay money to watch you use binoculars on a tripod pointed up in the sky whilst trying to focus one lens at a time on a
 moving object.

No clearly you have never used binoculars before. One (or both) lenses have a diopter corrector to enable you to tune the eyepieces to your eyesight. Once done you only need to use the main go using ring. At over 200 miles away at closest pass you can pretty much use infinity as your target. So simply focus on a bright star or distant object.

Using a tripod mean your binoculars are in a steady platform. Just loosen the alt-axis locks and you can easily track the ISS.
Well that's sounds easy doesn't it everybody?
I encourage everyone to grab their binoculars go outside and focus on a bird.
Then imagine trying to focus on a fast moving dot in the sky.
No body is looking at the ISS through binoculars, you guys are full of shit.

Excellent point, tappet. It's hard enough to focus on something in the distance which is stationary. I agree, they are full of shit.

Edit: I'm thinking that seeing the iss thing is nothing more than a meme. It's just too easy for the indoctrinated to lie about having seen it. I'll have to let George Carlin explain why lying is so easy:

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">! No longer available

58
Flat Earth General / Re: The ISS is a Gulfstream jet.
« on: March 04, 2016, 12:42:44 PM »
It's time for the fantasist space believers to wake up and see the reality of how big this con job is, whilst actually treating these space shenanigans as nothing more than the piss take they are designed for.

Even though it ISS there. All it takes is a small telescope of decent pair of binoculars... You deny its existance with absolutely no proof. Even self evidence can be provided, its not hard to see at all.

Can you or can you not see it? like papa said it was impossible. LOL. You can see IO one of jupiters moons with what 10x magnification. not well but enough to spot a pin-prick of light from each moon. That moon is 3637km in diameter and is 628.3 million km away. A distance-size comparison of 172,752.

The ISS is what 400km away and has a size of what 100 metres wide? distance-size comparison of 4000.

Wait for the ISS, Go outside with a pair of good binoculars, watch as it passes. Realise you was wrong.

Atleast do something, "claiming" it isn't real with 0 evidence? you are not going to acheive anything. Especially when many of us here have actually seen it in detail.

Course you have. But we must take you at your word because you never take, or can't take, photos. That's not going to happen. I hope you realise that. In my experience, the indoctrinated are the last people anyone should trust.

59
You don't have to prove/disprove the existence of ISS with a video, you can go observe it yourself. You can find out when the satellite will track across the sky in your area and see it. With a decent telescope you can even see the solar panels on it. Have a look here how to accomplish this.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">

So you know, if you actually took the time to do this and observe it with your own eyes, how do you refute that?

Have you done this? Or do you just believe?

60
:D
You must be playing this for laughs rayzor.

you have obviously had your answer a page ago,
and again this page.

must I keep explaining until you get it ?
Not sure I will live that long  ;D

Dude, nobody listens to you. Must we keep explaining this until you get it? Not sure I will live that long. Nobody's running from you. They're ignoring you. You know, like mommy and daddy.

If no one listens to him, how come he's been ripping the piss out of you clowns for 40 pages on his moon hoax thread?

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