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### Messages - legion

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1531
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 03, 2014, 09:35:05 AM »
I giggle so much because i partially work in the satellite industry (you can ask me anything about satellites). I showed in the office some time ago some scepti's posts and we all had good laugh.

Don't try to explain to him directions and viewpoints, he will never understand - leave him to make people giggle, that is the only thing he can do. He is just one big useless and miserable waste of life.

The good side of all these explanations is that other people may learn.

I have a few questions about satellites. What is your job there?

1532
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 03, 2014, 09:06:15 AM »
The problem is you assumed the rock A and small crater B to be at a certain distance. You actually don't know the distance and how far apart they are. It could be 50 feet or 150 feet. That makes a big difference. Also the distance from C, E and F is unknown. It could be 10 feet or 20 feet. There are too many unknown variables. Now there is one true item I shown you in the last picture. The center(blue vertical line) of the first image is known and the small crater "B" on on the right. If the astronaut would have continued walking the crater B would still be on the right. The second photo shows the center(orange line) and the crater "B" on the left of it. He would have had to move the the right to have the crater on his left. It is that simple.

Of course you are right, starman. Just post the photos of the simple experiment and show me how wrong I am.
I have to go for a few hours. You have the right idea with the floor photo as long is you have the right distance from all the points. That information you don't have. Later..

As we are constructing a small scale model, lots of possibilities can be tried. Good luck duplicating the two images (without moving anything once you're happy with one shot).

1533
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 03, 2014, 09:00:36 AM »
I asked this yesterday, and you never answered. What do you mean by "vertically aligned"?

Sorry, I meant B, E and F are all vertically aligned similarly on both shots. Not in a straight line, like this (diagonally):

B

E

F

1534
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 03, 2014, 08:51:48 AM »
The problem is you assumed the rock A and small crater B to be at a certain distance. You actually don't know the distance and how far apart they are. It could be 50 feet or 150 feet. That makes a big difference. Also the distance from C, E and F is unknown. It could be 10 feet or 20 feet. There are too many unknown variables. Now there is one true item I shown you in the last picture. The center(blue vertical line) of the first image is known and the small crater "B" on on the right. If the astronaut would have continued walking the crater B would still be on the right. The second photo shows the center(orange line) and the crater "B" on the left of it. He would have had to move the the right to have the crater on his left. It is that simple.

Of course you are right, starman. Just post the photos of the simple experiment and show me how wrong I am.

1535
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 03, 2014, 08:28:49 AM »
What do all think about my experiment:

Model of zoomed out shot

Model of zoomed in shot

Oh dear, I must have done something wrong! A and D aren't aligned vertically:

I'll move a bit more to the right. That should sort things out:

How odd! I'll have another go. I'll move over to the right even more and hopefully A and D will appear as they should:

Oh no! C has back in the frame. I give up...

1536
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 03:17:39 PM »
Look at the edge of B in both photos, on the side with the line (also, click to make them full size, i just linked the thumbnails so it didnt break the forums)

I have looked at the edge of B. It has moved slightly to the right as I would expect. What about A and D which my question was about?

You had said they were all "vertical", which I had interpreted to mean, that they were all in a straight line, in both shots. Doing the angles is a bit more labor intensive, but I'm working on those right now.

Hey, do the angles by all means. But, how can you determine the exact position of the photographer? You'd be far better off being honest and agreeing with me that he moved straight forward, and the positions of A and D are anomalous.

I wrote vertically aligned. I never wrote they were in a straight line.

1537
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 03:12:39 PM »
Look at the edge of B in both photos, on the side with the line (also, click to make them full size, i just linked the thumbnails so it didnt break the forums)

I have looked at the edge of B. It has moved slightly to the right as I would expect. What about A and D which my question was about?
Because he is closer D will appear to move to the left. In fact if he would have walk even close D would be to the far left and maybe out of frame to the left. Remember he walked a bit to the right.

He did not walk to the right. Just test it in your garden or in the street. If you fail to acknowledge my premise: an object on your right will appear to move to your right until it is out of view as you walk toward it (like C) then you are an idiot. Period.
If you look carefully you will see the second picture that the pad is still in the picture just a bit to the right. If he would have not walked a bit to the right the pad would be a lot further to the right. How do you know he did not move the right? You were not there. You made that assumption. If you can't see how the image shows that then I can't help you. Just earlier you mentioned you did not want to call names and you call me and idiot.

The angle of the leg and pad coupled with the features marked, shows that the approximate direction of travel by the photographer was straight ahead. Yeah, he may have been an inch or two either side, but not much more. But, nobody has answered my question. Why has A moved to the left and aligned with D. I don't get it and neither do (any of) you by the looks of it.

1538
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 03:01:18 PM »
And A appears to be further away so its movement should be to the left. But slower than D - F. But it isn't, is it? It moves to the right.

1539
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:57:44 PM »
Look at the edge of B in both photos, on the side with the line (also, click to make them full size, i just linked the thumbnails so it didnt break the forums)

I have looked at the edge of B. It has moved slightly to the right as I would expect. What about A and D which my question was about?
Because he is closer D will appear to move to the left. In fact if he would have walk even close D would be to the far left and maybe out of frame to the left. Remember he walked a bit to the right.

He did not walk to the right. Just test it in your garden or in the street. If you fail to acknowledge my premise: an object on your right will appear to move to your right until it is out of view as you walk toward it (like C) then you are an idiot. Period.

1540
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:52:54 PM »
Also the reason he walk a bit to the right is to keep the LEM landing pad in the frame. If he walked straight forward the landing pad would be out of frame. He used the pad as a reference for the picture.

He didn't walk to the right. The pad moved to the right as all objects do as you approach them, if they are on the right to start with! You can test that right now. You don't even need a bell jar.

1541
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:49:50 PM »
Look at the edge of B in both photos, on the side with the line (also, click to make them full size, i just linked the thumbnails so it didnt break the forums)

I have looked at the edge of B. It has moved slightly to the right as I would expect. What about A and D which my question was about?

1542
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:41:16 PM »
ok, here's the close yp:

And here's the far out view:

The blue lines in each photograph represent where E would be if you moved it straight out, to B. Both sets of blue lines are at a 20 px line weight.

I don't get what you are showing here. Care to break it down? Cheers.

1543
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:38:45 PM »
Starman. Did you just make those silly green lines up? The first are parallel and the second are at, what, 45º angle? How did you determine those angles???
The astronaut took the picture closer. He walked closer. He did not ZOOM in with the camera.

You are so thick. I said he walked. I never mentioned zoom. You complete idiot!

1544
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:32:32 PM »
As you can see, he used points A and D to make one line, then B and E to make the other.  Also as can be seen, point F does not line up with B and E as you have said.

Of course it doesn't. Nearer objects always move out of the field of vision faster than more distant objects. Did you fail to notice that B and E line up exactly???

1545
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:27:33 PM »
Starman. Did you just make those silly green lines up? The first are parallel and the second are at, what, 45º angle? How did you determine those angles???

1546
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:24:47 PM »
The point is there is absolutely no issue with both picture as claimed.

The real point is that F would be out of the frame in your imaginary shot position. And C would probably be in the shot.

1547
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:20:43 PM »
Here is the far picture. Can you see what would happen if the picture was taken closer and to the right a bit.

starman. You have added green lines that relate to nothing. But, your point is???

1548
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:07:59 PM »
Your resizing didn't significantly affect the positioning of the objects. Would you like me to show you copies with the lines drawn in to show you how i'm looking at it?

Yes, please. If I've made a mistake, then fine. Anything but starman, and his... I don't know what it is that he is on about!

1549
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 02:04:37 PM »
Nice picture. So explain your issue again. Remember the second picture the astronaut moved a bit to the right.

Starman, I've read sceptimatic calling you all sorts of names and I'd prefer not to do that. But, I have to ask: are you thick?

I posted two images from NASA's website, from the same mission, on the same day, showing the same scene, one from a slight distance from the lander, one from just behind the lander (in relation to the subject of the photo, both times). I asked a simple question with annotated pictures to make my question clear. You have made various incomprehensible comments about  "thinking horizontally" and accusing me of not thinking in 3D (when looking at  2D photos).

So, I must ask: what are you talking about? Did my question not make sense?

1550
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 01:48:19 PM »
Show the second picture in it's full size.

Yes, boss:

1551
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 01:40:14 PM »
Think horizontally not vertically.

I'm assuming he means they're on the same vertical line, but they're not.
True. He has to imagine what happens when he walked closer. Things closer seem to move to the left and the right a lot more that in the background. He moved closer to the pad making B & D line up. In fact in the closer picture the landing pad is almost in the middle of the picture showing he walked a bit to the right. By doing that it made D appear to move to the left. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the pictures. He can't think in 3D and can't understand angles..

Erm, no it isn't. The file size difference between the two images (from NASA site) meant I had to resize the second, close up shot. I was clear about checking the source photos, wasn't I?

Edit: sorry, wrong photo.

1552
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 12:52:19 PM »
To me, it looks like Photo 2 is taken from someone in the area where the astronaut is in Photo 1.

Math work:

In picture 2, The angle from a straight line, running through the base of the lander leg's bottom corner, to "object a" is ~ 27 degrees.  From about the same spot (as well as I can draw and measure angles within gimp), the angle in picture 1 is only ~21 degrees. That leads me to believe that not only did the photographer move in, but also moved closer to the lander, which may explain the apparent change in angle

That is ruled out as B, E and F are all aligned vertically on both shots.

1553
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 12:44:59 PM »
Did you notice the second shot is closer and not in the same place. What is the issue?

It is in the same place. Check the five marked features. I have clearly stated the issue.
The landing pad and astronaut is larger in the second picture so it is closer.

Are you having a laugh? Or did you not read my post:

"In the first photo, shot from further back, I've marked five features A to F. You can verify these at the NASA link above.

As Armstrong moves in to take the second shot, he walks straight forward. "

1554
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 12:38:10 PM »
Did you notice the second shot is closer and not in the same place. What is the issue?

It is in the same place. Check the five marked features. I have clearly stated the issue.

1555
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 12:26:11 PM »
Oh and just to add to this a bit, here is another picture of taken shortly before.

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/images/print/AS11/40/5902.jpg

Taken from the same roll of film:

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/apollo/catalog/70mm/magazine/?40

Maybe someone can explain this to me. Please look closely at the two photos below (found at http://history.nasa.gov/ap11ann/kippsphotos/apollo.html):

In the first photo, shot from further back, I've marked five features A to F. You can verify these at the NASA link above.

As Armstrong moves in to take the second shot, he walks straight forward. We know this because D, E and F are all the same (relative) distance from each other. For the second, close up shot, the following is observed:

C moves out of the frame.
A moves to the right and becomes vertically aligned with D

My question is: what causes A and D to become vertically aligned?

In my experience, and following tests this evening (just to be absolutely sure), an item which is off to the left as A is, will always appear to move to the left until it disappears out of the frame as C did, when you move toward it. A rational explanation for this strange anomaly would be good.

1556
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 02, 2014, 09:22:23 AM »
Come on, you can clearly see his prints under his shadow. He walked there and he turned around.

No comments bravimone or whiskey? It shouldn't be this easy on my first day...

I posted the picture in response to scepti's contention that one picture could not have been taken since the astronauts cameras were mounted to their chest.

I am not going to get into an argument on the internet about the moon hoax because someone thinks a picture "looks funny". I don't think it "looks funny" at all, so what is there to discuss. Ask a photography expert and he will tell you there is nothing funny about the picture.

I have researched the Apollo hoax theories and none of them are convincing. Most are assumptions based on ignorance. Some are outright deceitful. The one thing I have learned is that the vast majority of hoax believers will NEVER believe it was real so it's simply a waste of time debating it.

If your truly interested in researching the Apollo hoax claims, and not just parroting youtube hoax claims try the following:

http://www.clavius.org/

http://www.apollohoax.net/forum/

In fact, clavius.org has a page discussing this very photograph, and while they do not discuss the "funny looking" footprint, the do show where Aldrin was standing from another perspective:

http://www.clavius.org/manmoon.html

As you say Whiskey, nothing to be gained from an argument on the whole Apollo thing. I find them suspicious, you do not. Nothing else to be said.

1557
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 01, 2014, 03:14:31 PM »
I won't be back for a few hours either. Sleep and then work for me.

I must correct one of your points: "The thing is you make assumptions on what you see."

I make no assumptions. Check the thread if you doubt me. You however have made at least one assumption:

"
"The apparent beach shot looks unlike a beach shot" is because it is not sand." Now really, how do you know it is not sand? I don't know what it is. The photo doesn't make it clear. That is why I wrote 'apparent beach shot'.

1558
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 01, 2014, 02:54:16 PM »
It is so funny to me when they take moon landing picture and analyze it to death. They(conspiracy theorist) don't realize you can take ANY picture from anywhere and say something is wrong. they no knowledge of the picture or photography. If they want to say the moon landing did not happen then say so and move on. We get it. If they want to show their stupidity this is the place.

Nice to meet you, starman. I haven't analysed any photos to death. The anomalies spring out if you look objectively at what you are seeing. Or, are you suggesting that:

A) The highlighted footprint is not anomalous?
B) It is peculiar that NASA often fiddle with their photos?
C) The apparent beach shot looks unlike a beach shot?
Nice to meet you also. The thing is you make assumptions on what you see. Remember you were not there. You have to realize the moon's soil is nothing like beach soils like you mentioned. The moon has no weather (rain, snow, wind) to wear the soil. It is very dusty and the particles have very sharp edges so when you walk on it it will leave a perfect footprint. On earth sand will fall in to partly cover the print. That is why you said: "The apparent beach shot looks unlike a beach shot" is because it is not sand. When the astronauts walks on the moon it leaves a lot of dust around because big space suit. Look at some videos and you will see how messy walking is. NASA does not fiddle their photos. That is your perception and assumption.

As far as I'm aware, neither of us were there. But the photos are. Right here, thanks to NASA. So it seems your answers are:

A) No comment
B) "They don't fiddle with their photos". So both photos of Armstrong are identical, above?
C) Not answered satisfactorily. You just state "it is not sand". OK.
D) No comment

Edit: Interestingly, you seem to agree with sceptimatic by writing "Look at some videos and you will see how messy walking is." How can the footprints be so undisturbed and neat when walking is so "messy"?

1559
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Can anyone spot the error?
« on: May 01, 2014, 02:29:31 PM »
It is so funny to me when they take moon landing picture and analyze it to death. They(conspiracy theorist) don't realize you can take ANY picture from anywhere and say something is wrong. they no knowledge of the picture or photography. If they want to say the moon landing did not happen then say so and move on. We get it. If they want to show their stupidity this is the place.

Nice to meet you, starman. I haven't analysed any photos to death. The anomalies spring out if you look objectively at what you are seeing. Or, are you suggesting that:

A) The highlighted footprint is not anomalous?
B) It isn't peculiar that NASA often fiddle with their photos?
C) The apparent beach shot looks unlike a beach shot?
D) That this photo: http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/gallery/images/apollo/apollo11/hires/as11-37-5545.jpg
does not look like a needle (or similar) with a nail (or similar) in the background?