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Messages - optimisticcynic

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1471
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 14, 2009, 08:50:07 AM »
Back on topic doesn't anyone consider it stupid to bet your soul that your great great great grandfather was right when he converted out of fear of the iquisition or whatever reason he converted to it

1472
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 14, 2009, 08:46:18 AM »
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst
No better a catalyst than any strong leader, or any group. We've watched the Nazis come to power, we've watched whole casts not be allowed to do any work other than sweeping, we've watched people put into slavery because of their color. One less classification just means we have to look for someone else to kick out.


the only caste system I have heard of is the hindue religeon. Also A religeon can gain alot from intolerance Black people can't become white if society is against them however people can convert to  a religeon. The more converts and the higher the percentage of the population they control the more power the orginazation has.

1473
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Evolution and Religion
« on: February 13, 2009, 11:26:57 PM »
My specialist subject!  How I love religion - can anyone explain the missing link?  I mean a few posters seem to be a little, how shall we call it, "slow" but this is surely not evidence that man turned from Ape into God's glorious creation that sits here and types.

I mean where is apeman when you need him?  All this evolution stuff is poppycock.  7 days it took, to create the heavens and the earth - all else is heresy and should and will be punishable by eternal damnation.

Read the Bible, the earth is the centre and the heavens travel around it.  Anyone thinking otherwise is a heathen dolt.


Well, there isn't one. Whew, that was hard.
Does anyone know how rare it is for a fossile to form. Especially around something that is on the planet for as short of a time as an intermediate species

1474
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 13, 2009, 11:19:36 PM »
But it still helps spreed it easier. although it may not be the cause it is a good catalyst

1475
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Omnipotence: Possible?
« on: February 13, 2009, 11:18:04 PM »
Only in that one universe out of googles

1476
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Omnipotence: Possible?
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:57:08 PM »
But if god new everything that was going to happen then he new if he made the unverse one way or anouther what our desisions would be therefore he would be controlling us based on how the universe was made

Except there is a certain randomness according to QM.
But if he was omnipotence he would still know what was going to happen.

Yet what he caused may have had several different outcomes, knowing what will happen and and controlling all of it are two different things.
nice argument
I just would have went with the multple universe Hypophysis that says anytime one of those quantum reactions happen it create different universes where it happens in every way possible

1477
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:50:08 PM »
I am blaming Orginized Religeon. Not plain Religeon.  Yes intolerance is built into human nature however organized religion is somewhere were Intolerance of a specific group grows much more easily.

1478
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Omnipotence: Possible?
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:43:32 PM »
But if god new everything that was going to happen then he new if he made the unverse one way or anouther what our desisions would be therefore he would be controlling us based on how the universe was made

Except there is a certain randomness according to QM.
But if he was omnipotence he would still know what was going to happen.

1479
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:41:41 PM »
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it.

Please be less retarded. That is not what I meant at all. I meant they were christians because their only other choice was death.
In that case I don't see how you can argue that orginized religeons don't breed intolerance.
Second The first crusade Happened before the Spanish inquisition started They weren?t really killing that many people for not being Catholic. Infact most of the solders were volunteers which is not what you would expect if they were just catholic to save there own life.

1480
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Evolution and Religion
« on: February 13, 2009, 10:06:28 AM »
Yeah, look at bacteria. They didn't, that's where the split occurred.
Can bacteria see? Gee, I didn't know that. And how does light sensitive skin turn into a lens i  your eye?
Actually national Geography had an interesting article about this. Many bacteria can sense light. This gene was not active in multi cell life But was still there. Then a mutation activated it. Poof you have a patch of light sensitive skin Then it started to sink into the rest of the body. The reason this is useful is that It allows the patch to be more directional. Muscle that happened to affect were it was aiming eventually stopped doing their main job and instead just aimed the thing that would become the eye The lens that covers the eye is also from a gene that had been dormant for many generations.

1481
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Omnipotence: Possible?
« on: February 12, 2009, 03:38:37 PM »
But if god new everything that was going to happen then he new if he made the unverse one way or anouther what our desisions would be therefore he would be controlling us based on how the universe was made

1482
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 12, 2009, 03:12:14 PM »
Where the hell do you live. There a skin heads around were I live but they stay under the radar and only approach you if they think you will join them. I didn't know about it till I talked to someone who had some skin heads come up to him because of the way he was dressed.

I'm in NJ, by the NYC area. Ridgewood is full of them, and they make frequent trips to the local mall and shit. This one was dissing this girl because she was a jew and I stood up and defended her, he decided to swing while calling me a jewlover (just for standing up for her) so I got him to eat curb.

They are douchebags. I hope I meet one. I would just laugh at him.
The truffle shuffle, as I predicted.


Wow I had hoped people couldn't get away with that in society these days :-[ that type of stuff Doesn't happen much I Minnesot at least none that I have heard about.

1483
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 12, 2009, 02:58:07 PM »
Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.
Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.
Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.
But by believing in Jesus, We seperate ourselves from Judaism. We only share the Old Testament, thats all.
But you can not ignore the old testament is part of your religion or your connection with the Jew of the old testament

1484
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 12, 2009, 02:52:54 PM »
It means I would beat the shit out of them.

When you beat the shit out of a Neo-Nazi in the middle of the mall parking lot, let me know.
Let me guess, you did?

Yup. The kid deserved it, too. Started trying to fuck with me and I wasn't having it that day, so I put him to the curb. He thought he was all tough, his skinhead friends didn't even jump in or anything.
Where the hell do you live. There a skin heads around were I live but they stay under the radar and only approach you if they think you will join them. I didn't know about it till I talked to someone who had some skin heads come up to him because of the way he was dressed.

1485
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 12, 2009, 02:49:55 PM »
Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs.
Sort of right, but wrong. Christians believe the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus. The jews don't even believe in him.
Yes but that was also a teaching of Jesus. I never said they were the exact same thing.

1486
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Evolution and Religion
« on: February 12, 2009, 02:43:47 PM »
I read it before that, back when I was really interested in religion and the psychology behind it. The Qur'ran is way better.
Is it really? I have been researching a religeon that I would want to be a part of But So far I have only got through Buddhism and part of Hinduism.
If you want an interesting version of god look at the Hindus. 

1487
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 12, 2009, 02:40:05 PM »
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

Anger is a reflex that has saved many lives, and has protected many families. You can not take an emotion and call it flawed when you represent it in only one context. As for the rest, just because it is our nature to be evil does not mean it is the intent of the religion. People's evil does not make a religion evil. What was written in the old testament is irrelevant, it is simple the words of a jew from a long time ago, he said God gave them permission to kill people, that really doesn't effect how I or any other christian lives their lives. In fact I haven't slaughtered a whole village of people that didn't have it coming to them.

As for your last part about mistakes, I don't get it, you basically just said you agree with god. so sure.
Actually the first at least with the first Crusade It was the churches Idea I'm no sure about the others
A religion is the people who make it up. You can not say they can not be counted as Christians because The do not interpret the way you and the majority of Christians in this day and age interpret it. Yes they did something that shouldn't be considered good However they were Christians. I am not trying to say that the bible is evil and trying to make people do evil things I am saying that on the whole organized religions breed intolerance. There is very few large religions out there that haven't started a war. Second you are acting as though Judaism and Christianity are as different as Buddhism and Hinduism. Christianity is Judaism that uses the teaching of Christ on top of its former beliefs. And I didn't say I agree with him. I can understand why you would want to do something and admit I might do it if giving the temptation that does not mean I believe it is right. And You were acting as though I was saying that Christianity was a completely bad influence. I am saying though that It can be cause intolerance. I think the reason it isn't now is thanks to the information age.

1488
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 11, 2009, 10:20:57 PM »
Question Most people are whatever religeon they start out as. Very Few swich to Another religion. Since other religous people from other religions believe they are right then obviously being born into somthing can make you positive it is correct. The question is what was the chance you were born into the correct religeon. Otherwise your assming at least 4/5 te world is wrong and you happen to be born into the correct one.
It s actually 2/3 for Christians. I believe I am correct because of experiences my Grandpa, my Grandma, my brother, and my friend have had with demonic forces.


Even if you didn't blame this on mental illness running through your family and rubbing off on the people you know, how do you know they weren't evil forces from another religion?
Because of the nature of the attacks. I'm not going to share it all because it's why I personally believe in Christ and it wouldn't serve a purpose here.
Which is more likely:

a) there was a disturbance in the natural order
b) they are fucking with you

Probability can be more practically applied here.
Oh yeah. My Grandparents fuck with me all the time. same with my friend. My brother on the other hand, does fuck with me but he wasn't at the time

Was it your brother that was a druggy? That can lead to "demonic experiences".

I'd also like to question the sanity of grandparents that would tell their young grandson about "demons" and how dangerous they are.

 I would like to hear the stories of demonic possession

1489
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 10:17:51 PM »
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

I'm sorry, but that was more due to the feudal system. If you weren't a Christian you would be killed. Though that is less to blame on christianity and more to be blamed on kings wanting absolute power which they claimed they had from God.

Those cities were not destroyed by god, at most they were destroyed by jews and blamed on god or fictional. Finally there were many cases where jews destroyed cities themselves, then later claimed it was inspired by God. I thought you would have been smart enough to be referring to that.

If you actually believe God destroyed those cities, do you really believe the action was evil?
Okay a religion is both its doctrine or the people that follow it. So then the bible said those cities deserved to be destroyed  And just because this Was written to take the blame the jews that is still in the Holy bible which is at least partially what Christianity now is based on.
Second god made us in his image there for he could have fits of anger. And yes I know the christens believe he is in capable of error, however if I created a universe I would want them to think that I couldn't make mistakes.

1490
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 09:43:27 PM »
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Atheist are not allowed to join the boy scouts as scout masters, then there was what George bush senior said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Now picture the uproor if he said this about a different religion such as Buddhism.
Are you an atheist like I am? I was able to join whatever I wanted and I've never been shunned. In fact, I'm probably more accepted because I'm not a fucking lunatic who talks to himself at his bedside every night.
I have mentioned I don't adhere to any specific religion three times in high school. I spent many hours of people trying to convert me to save my soul and how I would go to hell if I didn't convert. Granted that might have been because it was high school. But they talked like It was horrible to be an atheist.

1491
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 09:33:15 PM »
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded
I don't think of Atheists as immoral, and I don't think I know anyone who does. Stop playing such a put upon victim.
Atheist are not allowed to join the boy scouts as scout masters, then there was what George bush senior said "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." Now picture the uproor if he said this about a different religion such as Buddhism.

1492
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 11, 2009, 09:17:15 PM »
This is like a weird twist on Pascal's Wager, and seems to hold about as much water.
I have been actually been researching other religions trying to decide which one seems to  the best. I have actually been  looking a lot of religions and not just the western ones. I have learned about both Hinduism and Buddhism. My question is How someone can believe something when they haven't looked at the other possibilities

1493
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 08:55:04 PM »
My question originally was why atheist are usually accused more often of being immoral then people who are part of a organized religion when atheist have through history a better track recorded

1494
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 11, 2009, 08:47:37 PM »
If I knew that answer I would be converting right not

1495
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 08:42:40 PM »
I know I am sorry I got off topic. Raist said that Christianity did not breed intolerance. I was tryig to prove that christianity like all orginized religions breed intolerance when not exposed to new ideas

1496
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 11, 2009, 08:33:25 PM »
Question Most people are whatever religeon they start out as. Very Few swich to Another religion. Since other religous people from other religions believe they are right then obviously being born into somthing can make you positive it is correct. The question is what was the chance you were born into the correct religeon. Otherwise your assming at least 4/5 te world is wrong and you happen to be born into the correct one.
How would one determine the probability of religious validity? And just what does it have to do with anything anyway?
I amnot talking about a religious validity I am assuming all of them are a posibility. What is the chance I started out in the right one. I don't want to bet my soul that my great great grandfather converted to the right religeon. How can every one be sure about any religeon without researching the others.

1497
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 08:25:09 PM »
the Crusades was a Christin army. In that day and age Most of the solders couldn't read so they had to trust the priest interpretation of the bible they trusted the church and most of /them I am sure believed what they were doing is right and Christan. This is showing what I am saying. Organized religion is what cause the problem second I am sorry I got off topic I was trying to argue about organized religion as a whole. And last that was god that destroyed those towns not the Jews. The same god that you believe in.

1498
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Probability
« on: February 11, 2009, 07:19:41 PM »
Question Most people are whatever religeon they start out as. Very Few swich to Another religion. Since other religous people from other religions believe they are right then obviously being born into somthing can make you positive it is correct. The question is what was the chance you were born into the correct religeon. Otherwise your assming at least 4/5 te world is wrong and you happen to be born into the correct one.
It s actually 2/3 for Christians. I believe I am correct because of experiences my Grandpa, my Grandma, my brother, and my friend have had with demonic forces.
I was separating the different portions of Christianity because if Christianity is right they would still be one branch more right the others second  Demonic Forces?

1499
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Probability
« on: February 11, 2009, 04:21:18 PM »
Question Most people are whatever religeon they start out as. Very Few swich to Another religion. Since other religous people from other religions believe they are right then obviously being born into somthing can make you positive it is correct. The question is what was the chance you were born into the correct religeon. Otherwise your assming at least 4/5 te world is wrong and you happen to be born into the correct one.

1500
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Athiest World
« on: February 11, 2009, 11:56:36 AM »
Read the old testament then talk about tolerance entire cites were destroyed and you could argue that they were filled with sin but did the children or the babys in the town deserve it. Second I said nothing of the teachings of jesus. I said the  Religious orginazation was easly corrupted when you have a Hierarchy.

Talk to some jews about that particular story. Most stories in the old testament I believe are stories. Perhaps the jews did slaughter cities and justify it with god. The fact remains is they didn't slaughter the city for god, they used god as an excuse.

And if you get to switch back and forth between religions do I get to bring in every single atheist that has committed an atrocity and blame it on their lack of morals?

The old testament is part of the Christin bible You can't ignore it completly Also although christanity split from jewish Religion  it came form a part of it Jesus was a jew
 You can not use single atheist to prove your point You can however use an army of atheist that did a horrible thing to prove your point

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