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Messages - Solarwind

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61
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 26, 2020, 08:05:37 AM »
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Molecular stacking and resistance of the stacking.

That is not an answer, that is just a claim.  What would be causing the resistance of the stacking?  What forces exist between molecules to cause the resistance?

62
Flat Earth General / Re: Sea and air pressure
« on: December 26, 2020, 07:58:16 AM »
Yes thanks, now are you going to answer my questions or not?

63
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 26, 2020, 07:57:23 AM »
But when you lay down the rules about what you accept or not as 'provable evidence' that kind of tips the balance of favour in your direction don't you think.  There are lots of points of evidence that proves the Earth is a globe but  you invent all sorts of things to counter that evidence and therefore discard that as evidence.

64
Flat Earth General / Re: Sea and air pressure
« on: December 26, 2020, 04:26:08 AM »
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Compressed air/atmosphere.

Compressed air.  OK so that's air under pressure.  Where causes the air to be compressed?  You still haven't answered the question  Air does not compress itself.  What is the force which is compressing the air?  Also how would you calculate how much the air or atmosphere has been compressed at different heights?

Air is denser and at higher pressure the nearer you get to the surface.  Why is that if it is not due to a force pulling the air particles down?  And why does water pressure increase with depth?

65
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 26, 2020, 03:56:39 AM »
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I believe the evidence that disproves the spinning globe is the easiest evidence of any.

What is that then?  If it is so obvious then give me just one example of it.

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We know for an absolute fact it isn't a spinning globe in  a space vacuum.

No we don't because it is. Just because you say it isn't doesn't make it an absolute fact does it. If it is so obvious that the Earth is not a spinning globe as you insist then don't you think it would be a little more widely known after all this time and not just something that conspiracy theorists go on about all the time?  But then conspiracy theorists know better than anyone else don't they.

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The only argument keeping it all alive is fictional gravity.

So if gravity is fictional what is the force which produces your 'pressure'? Third or fourth time asking this question!
  Maybe if I increase the text size and embolden it like you often do to what others have said you might take more notice of the question.

You keep saying you are not presenting your model as fact but time and time again that's exactly what you actually do.

66
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 25, 2020, 03:36:59 PM »
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and nobody has disproved the alternatives for it

No one has proved as correct the alternatives for the spinning globe either have they.

67
Flat Earth General / Re: Sea and air pressure
« on: December 25, 2020, 04:20:23 AM »
The common thing among conspiracy theorists regardless of which particular 'conspiracy' is concerned is their absolute belief that they know the real truth. Along with of course an equally strong insistence that everyone else is being duped, lied to or otherwise misled.  Yet they cannot prove it... other than to themselves it seems.

So what is behind all this? To cure a feeling that they have otherwise led unfulfilling and unremarkable lives? How can I make myself stand out from the crowd and leave a legacy in the world after I have gone.  I know something the rest don't. There are over 7.5 billion people in the world as we end 2020 and the vast majority talk about the Earth in terms of it being a globe.  What a lot of sheep we all are! Wouldn't it be amazing if I - yes me - alone could find some evidence which shows that these 7.5 billion people have been lied to, deceived and mid-led all this time and show them all that they are actually standing on a flat plane!!

Well Sceptimatic believes.. no sorry... he knows he has found this evidence. But sadly he is not willing to share it.  Nor it seems is he so sure of himself that he entertains what he thinks as fact.  The standard disclaimer there, just in case you know, someone proves him wrong. Well he could tell us but then he'd have to kill us wouldn't he. Bummer. So he will just have to take that knowledge to the grave while the rest of us who don't know better will just have to live out our lives still believing the Earth is a globe while at the same time ever wondering what Sceptimatic knows what the rest of us don't or indeed how he came to find out.


68
Flat Earth General / Re: Sea and air pressure
« on: December 24, 2020, 02:12:29 PM »
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I defend it in my own way and I continually tell people I'm not handing it out as factual. You know this and so do the rest.

If something isn't fact then it is fiction.  So if you if you are continually telling people that you are not handing your model as factual then you are by definition telling people that it is fiction. Which is probably about the first time you actually said anything that is true.  So thanks for admitting it finally.

Your model is not more factual than Harry Potter is. 

69
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 24, 2020, 09:56:00 AM »
Quoting yourself?

70
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 24, 2020, 04:46:08 AM »
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I actually could....if....I say....if, you can actually show I'm wrong.

But you know that will never happen because if Sceptimatic senses that something is being asked or shown which shows he is wrong, he will just change his own rules to suit.  Because (by his own admission) he only has to prove anything to himself, he cannot by default be shown to be wrong about anything.

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what specific evidence would you accept that would prove to you the Earth is round?

This can be applied to any flat Earther.  Their basic position is that anything which shows or evidences that the Earth is not flat has been faked or deliberately misrepresented and can therefore be discredited and ignored.  It's easy to conclude a belief is right if you choose to ignore all the evidence which shows it isn't.

71
Flat Earth General / Re: Sea and air pressure
« on: December 24, 2020, 03:58:12 AM »
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When you're in midair you have to have a force to keep you in midair, meaning you have to compress the atmosphere under you to ensure your mass stays in the air.

What is this force, where is it coming from and what creates it?

72
Flat Earth General / Re: Flat Earth and the celestial sphere
« on: December 24, 2020, 03:38:50 AM »
Yes that's exactly as I understand it to be.  Equatorial mounts work in both hemispheres by aiming the polar axis of the mount at the respective celestial pole for the hemisphere you are in.

The question is...  how does this all work in flat Earth land?  Without introducing some pretty extreme light bending tricks?

73
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 24, 2020, 01:04:39 AM »
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The sun is a plasma!
Wait, what?

What do you mean?  You don't think the Sun is made of plasma? 

74
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 24, 2020, 01:03:44 AM »
All your posts consist of now Sceptimatic is throwing out disparaging remarks about people who think differently to you.  What is the point of that?

You say that the affect that we attribute to gravity is actually caused by pressure and gravity doesn't actually exist. OK but pressure is caused by a force.  You can't just magic pressure out of nowhere.  So what is the force behind this pressure in your your world if gravity doesn't exist?  I have asked this a couple of times now but you still haven't provided an answer.  You say you have already answered it elsewhere in another discussion so point me to that answer.

75
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 23, 2020, 03:56:55 PM »
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Wait, what?

Yes a plasma.  You know what a plasma is yes? Why what did you think the Sun was made of?  How do we know the Sun is made of plasma? Well there are plenty of books dedicated to that.  We can observe features on the Sun which can only occur in plasma environments.  I have imaged some myself if you'd like to see some?

No I haven't taken a thermometer and dipped it into the Suns photosphere to personally check the temperature for myself.  That would be silly, let alone impossible.  Fortunately there are other ways which don't involve having to be anywhere near the Sun itself!

76
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 23, 2020, 05:04:01 AM »
I actually think this alternative thinking idea is quite a good thing when done in the right way for the right reasons. 

For example how many people who have ever lived have thought there is a stronger case for saying that the Sun is a projected holographic image from a source that no one has ever found or even seen or could find, over the conventional scientific account that the Sun is a G2V type main sequence yellow dwarf star?  If you were to conduct an independent, random poll of any number of people which would they be most likely to choose?  I accept that if you were to ask 100 people selected at random what they thought the Sun is, you wouldn't get 100 people replying a star. But equally they wouldn't say it is a holographic image either.

When I was doing my A level in physics many years ago I had to carry out experiments which have been a standard part of the course for years. They are well documented and the equipment needed is standard kit for any college. They have been tried and tested again and again and again with the same outcome.  When I did the experiments myself I got the same result.  That is not indoctrination.  That is confirmation by experiment.

Now obviously there are certain experiments that I cannot perform myself.  That would be impractical.  However others with suitable facilities and equipment can perform these experiments which it is impossible for me to perform myself.  Are you (the flat Earthers) suggesting that I should ignore and discard any information these people who perform these experiments and report back their results as lies and fabrication.  Are you suggesting that I should only believe and accept information that I can personally obtain and verify myself? That would be pretty limiting don't you think? Life is simply too short to rely on ones self to learn everything by ourselves.

I am all for 'alternative thinking' when there is a clear and obvious need for it.  Distrust of the entire scientific community is not though a reason for alternative thinking. Recognition that we live on a globe is something that has been with us for the majority of human history.  Those who historically believed the Earth was flat did not form their beliefs from distrust.  They formed them because at the time when they lived, we didn't know as much about the world as we do now.

There are plenty of 'alternative thinkers' in science even today.  That's what scientists do when they are trying find out the reasons for little imperfections in existing models.  We are never complacent in science.  Because nature writes the rules and she will continue to do so. 

77
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 23, 2020, 02:53:54 AM »
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You people believe you know more than alternate thinkers because your mainstream platter has been

So just because you are an alternate thinker does that automatically also mean you know better?  Having different opinions about something doesn't mean your opinion is any more correct than someone elses.  You believe it is obviously otherwise you wouldn't think it.  But it doesn't make it correct.

I have no idea about what you know or don't know so how could I possibly believe I know more than you do?  What I do know is that you don't seem to know a huge amount about your own model.  You still haven't explained where the force is coming from to generate the pressure that you think exists instead of gravity in your world.

If you have explained it already in the 'other' discussion as you say you have then tell me the post number in that discussion where you explained it and I will have a read.

78
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 23, 2020, 01:40:50 AM »
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Flat earthers place the highest priority on proving something yourself, rather than relying on the word of experts. Fair enough.

Well that follows.  Flat Earther think they know better than anyone else so naturally because the word of experts tells a different story to the one flat Earth believers subscribe to then their natural conclusion is that the experts are lying.  Which is the core assertion of all conspiracy theorists.

79
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 22, 2020, 11:45:59 PM »
This whole forum, regardless of the discussion topic is about 'one upmanship' and playing 'devils advocate' on the part of the flat Earthers.

They know they are in the minority as far as what they believe in is concerned so if they think they can demonstrate that nothing can be proved, shown or demonstrated very easily then they would say they have won their case.  Well good for you is all I can say.

Bottom line for me is that I know what I know and I know that I believe and that is good enough for me.  I am not going to continue splitting progressively finer hairs in order to try and win an argument.

If that is how flat Earthers work in order to try and make themselves feel good and believe they know better than round Earth knowers then fine.  Go ahead and believe you are.

The observant among you will recognise that this post is an exact duplicate of my latest post under the questions regarding FE theory.  No that isn't a mistake.  I thought I would post the same comments here because they are equally applicable to this discussion as well.

80
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 22, 2020, 11:41:58 PM »
This whole forum, regardless of the discussion topic is about 'one upmanship' and playing 'devils advocate' on the part of the flat Earthers.

They know they are in the minority as far as what they believe in is concerned so if they think they can demonstrate that nothing can be proved, shown or demonstrated very easily then they would say they have won their case.  Well good for you is all I can say.

Bottom line for me is that I know what I know and I know that I believe and that is good enough for me.  I am not going to continue splitting progressively finer hairs in order to try and win an argument.

If that is how flat Earthers work in order to try and make themselves feel good and believe they know better than round Earth knowers then fine.  Go ahead and believe you are.

81
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 22, 2020, 01:52:21 PM »
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Sceptimatic's "experiment" as he outlines it, is a trick. It's a ruse. He could be a party magician in his spare time, or a travelling conman selling used toilet rolls instead of snake oil. "Step right up, ladies and gentleman. Step right up! Proof the Earth is flat in the palm of your hand!" He would make a fortune.

Absolutely.  Where as your party magician is an expert visual illusionist, so people like Scepi are expert written illusionists.  The only difference is that the party magician can almost make you believe that what you are seeing is actually happening whereas Scepti has yet to provide a convincing argument to make me believe he is right.

But no matter... as Scepti has said repeatedly he is not out to present his model as fact or to make anyone believe a word he says.  So in that way he has succeeded.

82
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 22, 2020, 01:39:01 PM »
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Again, if you are so sure you are right, DO IT YOURSELF!
Show everyone just what you think you should see through the tube.

JB I thought you would have realised by now.  Sceptimatic doesn't need do anything himself.  Why should he?  When you are so sure that your model is correct, true and real and better than anything else that science has managed to come up with like Scepti has, he doesn't need to do anything himself.  He has satisfied himself that he is right so that's all that matters to him.  We can either accept it (like we apparently do when it comes to believing the Earth is a globe) or we can lump it.

The fact that he cannot answer a direct question with a direct answer is irrelevant. The fact that he says he has answered all our questions before in the 'other' discussion (although I can't for the life of me find where) means he doesn't have to repeat himself by answering them 'again'.  By sending us down a false path with the false expectation of finding the answer, he manages to set up a deflection and avoid answering the question at all. Nice dodging there Scep. 

So the reality of it is even though his 'model' is so vastly better than what science has come up with.. he doesn't actually know anything about his model because... well I wonder why?..




83
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 22, 2020, 01:31:49 PM »
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This is certainly a revolutionary new science... Do tell us more about how the opacity of a medium does not attenuate EM waves and how waves in general do not degrade while traveling through a medium.

O sorry... didn't I mention I was talking about the effects of light travelling across interstellar space where there is no medium as such.  The attenuation is caused by the ISM.  Not the medium itself as there isn't one.

84
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 22, 2020, 10:13:31 AM »
It seems to happen quite often whenever someone starts asking probing questions about what flat Earthers claim or believe a bit deeper or when questions are asked which flat Earthers cannot answer.  Or when they don't get the answers they want.

Maybe they don't like it when people come along who actually know what they are talking about.  Scepti for example.  Whenever you ask him about his 'stuff' and what he believes in he comes back with the template disclaimer 'I'm not claiming any of this as fact'...  just as well... cos it ain't!

But he is a flat Earth 'scientist'..  What does that mean exactly?

85
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 22, 2020, 09:46:53 AM »
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Atmospheric pressure, which is explained in the other thread.

Maybe it is. If so tell me exactly on what page of the other thread. You must know where it is because you wrote it. Or better still just explain to me here.  What causes atmospheric pressure in your world?  Pressure is a function of a force. But if gravity doesn't exist in your world then something else is creating the force.  What is it?

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I don't cast my stuff off as fact.

Really?.  Since you won't accept anything else as fact (unless we can 'prove' it to you or 'show' it to you) then what have you got left?   All we have from you is your opinions.

If you are not casting your 'stuff' as fact and you think everything else is made up by people being dishonest or indoctrinated.  What do you cast as fact?

This holographic Sun of yours you believe might be created by some sort of crystal in the centre of the Earth beaming light onto a non-existent dome. But obviously as you say you are not casting that as an actual fact.  But you won't accept that there is a physical body out there that we call the Sun either.   

Well someone is right because in case you hadn't noticed there is a bright yellow thing in the sky which supplies light and heat to the Earth and keeps us all alive. 

86
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 22, 2020, 03:32:53 AM »
What has thickness of a piece of marble and whether we can see light passing through it or not got to do with whether air is opaque or not?  If I put on a pair of X ray or gamma rays specs at surface level then yes air is opaque.  I don't know of many crews of ships though who go around wearing X ray glasses do you?

The original question was:

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Firstly, if there were two boats in the open Pacific Ocean that gradually moved away from each other for hundreds of miles, would they be able to see each other over such distances?

How has a question about how far ships can be apart and still see each other managed to morph itself into a discussion about the light transmittivity of a piece of marble? 

87
Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 22, 2020, 01:07:48 AM »
So going back to #2284, in your world Sceptimatic and in your mind pressure causes the effect that everyone else (wrongly obviously) attributes to gravity.

Pressure is determined by force/area (N/m2).  So what is causing the pressure in your world and why does it vary with altitude? 

My point being that you obviously accept that pressure exists but you say that gravity doesn't.  So given that pressure is an effect of a force (cause/effect) then if you are going to eliminate gravity as a force (since gravity doesn't exist in your model) then to have pressure you need to replace gravity with some other type of force.  Which is?



88
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 21, 2020, 02:12:19 PM »
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To steal SW's quote, which he no doubt stole unattributed,

No I didn't steal anything. What made you think I had?  It's just something you learn when you do a physics course.  I've been doing physics and astronomy for over 40 years now so over that time I have learned a few things.

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When a signal travels through an attenuating medium, the medium will eventually become opaque.

Over what sort of distance would you be talking here?  I can see light which has been attenuated by interstellar gas and dust but that just reddens it.  It doesn't make it invisible.  I can see light from the stars of galaxies billions of light years away.  Yet I can't see light from the stars in the disk of our Galaxy because it has been scattered by neutral hydrogen clouds.

I would also disagree with this statement on the basis that attenuation is the weakening of a signal over distance (we call it the inverse square law of light intensity).  Eventually the signal will become so weak as to be undetectable.  It has nothing to do with the medium through which that signal is travelling eventually becoming opaque.  The medium is not blocking the signal itself.  If that was the case we couldn't be able to see very distant or even not so very distant galaxies.  The universe became transparent to photons about 380,000 years after the Big Bang.  We call it the Epoch of Recombination.  Prior to that the Universe was too hot for neutral atoms (low interaction with photons) to exist so the Universe was filled with elementary particles (high interaction with photons). So prior to 380,000 years the Universe was opaque due to the primordial 'soup' of particles that existed then.

I have a solar telescope equipped with a hydrogen alpha filter (Lunt LS152).  That means while the full optical waveband enters the filter it only allows through the H alpha wavelength.  I then attach a camera which allows me to view and record images of the Sun in H alpha light.  (happy to post one if you wish).

If I now add a filter wheel with RGB filters and I choose the red filter I can still see the Sun because H alpha lies in the red part of the spectrum. The red filter is transparent to H alpha light. If I then change to the green or blue filters what do you think I will see and why?

What do you think will happen if I now change over to using the CaK module and try the RGB filters again?

89
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 21, 2020, 12:27:05 PM »
How does light undergoing total internal reflection (TIR) through an internally reflective tube (or indeed water) tie in with the opacity of light in the optical waveband through air?

90
Flat Earth General / Re: questions regarding FE theory
« on: December 21, 2020, 10:35:53 AM »
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OH! You're getting so close to realizing something!

Let's not phrase things here as if you are teaching me anything because I can assure you you're not.

In your first reply to the OP you said air is opaque.  Now if you had said that air at ground or surface level is opaque across certain wavebands of the electromagnetic spectrum then I would have agreed with you entirely. 

However the OP was talking about what we can see at ground level or close to ground level and so he was talking about the properties of air across the optical waveband.  As the graphic I linked to shows quite obviously air is not opaque across the optical waveband. It is opaque to G and X rays which is why space agencies spend a lot of money to launch satellites into orbit (and get above the air) in order to detect G and X ray emissions from the Sun etc. 

You then introduced your cloud example to apparently prove that air is in fact opaque but it was explained to you that clouds are not part of the air itself, they simply exist within the air.  Clouds block the Sun (they are opaque to visible light) but the air is not. Hence we can see the Sun.

We both know what we mean here and in the broadest sense we are both right so let's leave it at that shall we.  I don't really want to drag this out to another 70 pages like Scepti would.

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