31

Flat Earth Debate / Coriolis Effect or Coriolis Force

« on: July 20, 2019, 04:03:59 AM »

According to this blog
https://blog.matthen.com/post/8130807223/you-yellow-need-to-pass-the-red-ball-to-your
If the frame rotating clockwise then the particle path must rotated counterclockwise and vice versa. But on earth cyclone rotated in the same direction with earth direction of rotation. In southern hemisphere cyclone rotated counter clockwise like earth in that part.

This for picture:
https://scijinks.gov/review/coriolis/hurricane-direction.png

32

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 20, 2019, 03:53:25 AM »

Then there is no wind at upper athmosphere.

Which is why I specifically said "without anything else" and "Of course, in reality it is more complex as there are perturbing factors which generate things like wind."


If you remove all factors except the rotating Earth and friction then the atmosphere will rotate with Earth.
If you introduce other factors, such as the sun, which generates wind you will not have the entire atmosphere rotate as one and thus end up with wind which will blow the clouds in whatever direction the wind goes.

Then there is much higher probability that the cloud going to the west than to the east as the earth rotated. But I never see anything like that, and the cloud goes to any direction as it appears. 

33

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 19, 2019, 10:21:05 PM »

If you want to think of it as a bulk gas, then it is friction just like with normal relative motion.
It will resist the relative motion. This will cause it to rotate as one.

Then there is no wind at upper athmosphere.

34

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Satellites follow a path around the globe

« on: July 19, 2019, 09:51:56 PM »

Where does rocket booster falling to after separation?

35

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 19, 2019, 04:45:22 PM »

Unless it is monoatomic, the collisions aren't elastic.

For practical reason we can assume the collision are elastics. Non elastics collision just make particle loss of momentum and became slower.

If you want to think of it as a bulk gas, then it is friction just like with normal relative motion.
It will resist the relative motion. This will cause it to rotate as one.

But at  a higher altitude, there is constant wind where upper layer of athmosphere have relative motion with the layer below it, and never become at rest. But this wind never make the cloud moving to the west. So overall this relative motion occur just as earth stationary.

In this link
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-wind-faster-at-higher-elevations
they just said that this wind caused by there is no drag of earth surface at higher elevation. But if that is the case, then the cloud must move to the west as the earth rotated.

36

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 18, 2019, 01:24:39 AM »

Suppose earth surface can drag athmosphere layer above it so it have similar tangetial velocity. But it is still can't have the same angular velocity because it have different distance from the center. So as the distance (altitude) increased, the lag between earth surface and athmospheric it layer above also increased  as the earth rotated. So athmospheric layer spiraling  out from the earth surface. So why the clound stand still above us and never went to the wast as the earth rotated to the east?

The angular speed of the Earth is constant.
Air drag (friction inside gasses) will bring all layers of the atmosphere to the same angular speed as the rest.
What is different is tangential speed, not the angular speed.

The atmosphere is an integral part of the planet.
Only thermal movements inside remain.

The same angular speed means every particle in gas have a constant distance or it have rigidity. But the gas doesn't have rigidity. Friction just make every gas particle have same linear/tangential velocity. If you see the cyclon or hurricane thats what I mean, the center move with higher angular velocity than the border but overall they move with the same linear velocity (that's how the gas should supposed to move).

37

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 18, 2019, 01:13:20 AM »

If you have a solid body rotating with a fluid around it (without anything else) then it will all rotate at the same angular velocity.

If this wasn't the case then there would be relative motion between the 2 layers and thus friction to cause the faster layer to slow down and the slower layer to speed up.

Friction in gas means there is elastic collision between molecules particle constitute it. But elastic collision just maintain velocity, does not make it increased.

38

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Moving direction of Himawari Satellite

« on: July 17, 2019, 06:52:27 AM »

It is just one of the ten millions NASA failed. Ensure they will correct it as soon as possible and moon will start to rotate reverse direction.

They said it taken by satellite. Why not just say, it is a simulation?

39

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 17, 2019, 06:50:59 AM »

the shear between lower and higher parts of atmosphere that this would entail would cause the upper parts to speed up to reduce the shear until it is gone.

So the athmosphere have rigidity too? I thought it is just a drag force?

Elastic collision between air particle just conserved the velocity between it before and after the collision. So why upper athmosphere have a higher velocity?

40

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 17, 2019, 06:37:43 AM »

the shear between lower and higher parts of atmosphere that this would entail would cause the upper parts to speed up to reduce the shear until it is gone.

So the athmosphere have rigidity too? I thought it is just a drag force?

41

Flat Earth Debate / Moving direction of Himawari Satellite

« on: July 17, 2019, 06:32:30 AM »

The moon orbitting the earth  once every 30 days. So as the himawari in geostationary orbit (its keeps it  position above the same point on earth surface)  it is must see the moon moving  to the left, not moving to the right. But why in above video its see moon moving to the right, that's means moon orbitting the earth more faster than earth rotated. 

42

Flat Earth Debate / How cloud rotate with the same phase as earth surface

« on: July 17, 2019, 06:17:33 AM »

Suppose earth surface can drag athmosphere layer above it so it have similar tangetial velocity. But it is still can't have the same angular velocity because it have different distance from the center. So as the distance (altitude) increased, the lag between earth surface and athmospheric  layer above it also increased  as the earth rotated. So athmospheric layer spiraling  out from the earth surface. So why the clound stand still above us and never went to the wast as the earth rotated to the east?

43

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 10, 2019, 02:10:43 AM »

But the key thing is they don't just use the time dilation formula one way.

Even for the original twin paradox, they don't use time dilation formula one way. But in that case, they end up with different age.

44

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 10, 2019, 01:52:18 AM »

At higher altitude the air is thinner so the engine has to work harder. You don't get something (altitude) for nothing.

Then  why supersonic aircraft not climbing to higher altitude eventhough they carry excessive thrust. And many jet fighter can flying at several meters above the ground to prevent radar detection whereas it carry maximum speeds they can achieve like when it flying at higher altitude. 

45

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 10, 2019, 01:07:19 AM »

Under ideal conditions isobaric atmospheric layers would keep the constant altitude above the sea level.

There is the difference between submarine, air balloon and the plane. For submarine, elevation or depth determined by isobaric layer. Even if the submarine climbing (tilted its wing) to the shallow area, its weight equalize with the pressure outside so it is go back to initial depth. But for aeroplane there is no isobaric layer. There is no need to increase machine power (rpm) to make it go higher and higher. All determined by wing orientation in the space.  Climbing just 100 meters doesn't require extra machine power, we just need to tilted the wings.

For the plane, altitude not determined by pressure outside.

Bolded is wrong. If you just tilt the wings you'll lose lift as you'll be at a steeper angle of attack. You need to increase power as well.

I see many videos about supersonic plane that fly just several meters above the ground. So speed not always proportional with altitude.

46

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 09, 2019, 06:49:47 PM »

For one, the symmetry of the situation demands it.
But the key thing is they don't just use the time dilation formula one way.
Initially they see each other ageing slower. At the end they see each other ageing faster.
These 2 periods cancel each other out.

Even if we go to negative direction, so velocity have negative sign, its square still positive in lorentz factor formula. So it is will end up with the same amount of time dilation.

And what determined the twin seing other twin aging slower or faster?

47

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 06:34:15 PM »

Under ideal conditions isobaric atmospheric layers would keep the constant altitude above the sea level.

There is the difference between submarine, air balloon and the plane. For submarine, elevation or depth determined by isobaric layer. Even if the submarine climbing (tilted its wing) to the shallow area, its weight equalize with the pressure outside so it is go back to initial depth. But for aeroplane there is no isobaric layer. There is no need to increase machine power (rpm) to make it go higher and higher. All determined by wing orientation in the space.  Climbing just 100 meters doesn't require extra machine power, we just need to tilted the wings.

For the plane, altitude not determined by pressure outside.

48

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 06:10:37 PM »

But it isn't.
There is constant adjustment.
This adjustment corrects for many things, including the curvature of Earth.

What is the mechanism for constant adjustment?

49

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 06:04:41 PM »

Also, if the plane was to go in an actual straight line it would be climbing into thinner air. This is not maintainable. It would lose power and naturally find it's level.

Why not maintenable. Even if the plane have a constant thrust (RPM), it is can manuevering to the higher altitude and stay at that altitude with the same machine power. 

50

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 09, 2019, 09:14:50 AM »

The fast and slow periods cancel each other out and they end up the same age.

Most of the time they use time dilation formula, why they end up with the same age?

51

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 09:13:18 AM »

One degree of the curvature is 60 nautical miles long.
It is 111.12 kilometers.

Yes it is 1 degree change of orientation every 60 miles. But during 60 miles there is drop off earth surface up to 100 m if the plane not change its initial orientation.

52

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 09:06:38 AM »

One degree of the curvature is 60 nautical miles long.
It is 111.12 kilometers.

The typical cruising airspeed for a long-distance commercial passenger aircraft is approximately 475–500 knots (880–926 km/h; 547–575 mph).

It means nearly 7.5 minutes per one degree (8 degrees per hour).
Minute hand on your wall clock goes 45 times faster (360 degrees per hour).

Now, sit and watch your clock's minute hand to familiarize with the values.
How easily can you notice the 45 times faster tilt?

Even If the plane staying in initial orientation but the Earth curvature still make elevation increased 31 m every 20 km. Even the plane not rotating enough, there is significant change in plane altitude during the flight if the plane doesn't change its orientation. In submarine they using gyrocompass to make it travel at a straight path. But how about aeroplane? They never mention about that.

53

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 09, 2019, 05:13:43 AM »

Is there a gravitational difference between planets A, B, and C?

Assume they are similar planets, so there is no need to include gravitation in calculation.

54

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 04:31:54 AM »

To control and maneuver the aircraft, smaller wings are located at the tail of the plane.
The tail usually has a fixed horizontal piece, called the horizontal stabilizer,
and a fixed vertical piece, called the vertical stabilizer.

Can you show to us where is the horizontal stabilizer in the plane. Just using aerodynamics is not enough to make the plane auto rotated during the flight.

55

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 04:28:18 AM »

Like those fins at the back of a dart.

The dart never stay parallel with earth surface.

56

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 04:24:23 AM »

What makes you say they don't tip their nose?
They adjust their attitude during flight to maintain level flight.

The changes needed to follow Earth's curve are so small you would not notice.
Assuming a cruising speed of 1000 km/hr, this equates to roughly 280 m/s.
Earth's circumference is roughly 40 000 km or 40 000 000 m.
This means each second this much faster plane would go only 0.000007 of the way around Earth.
That equates to 0.00252 degrees.

This rotation rate is so small you would not notice it.

I see many video about flying aeroplane. But I never see them adjust the nose periodically. Especially for a small plane with single enggine. They just make it fly away. Can you give a video that this plane auto rotate  its body or the pilot tipping the nose periodically during the flight. Or can you explain what is the mechanism that make the body of the plane always parallel with earth surface without the pilot manually adjust it?

 

57

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 09, 2019, 04:14:14 AM »

I would say it actually isn't a paradox (at least assuming it is symmetrical).
In this case, they both age the same amount, due to the same time dilation.
Sure, they observe each other age differently and at different rates over the course of their trip.

The key part of the paradox is that the twins started at the same age, but ended up with different ages.

But they still observe other twin have a slow time rate. Are they age different or still at the same age?

58

Flat Earth Debate / How Aeroplane Follow Earth Curvature

« on: July 09, 2019, 03:47:59 AM »

Yes, gravity can make (center of mass of) the plane follow earth curvature. But how about plane orientation in space. How to make body of the plane always parallel with earth surface without tipping the nose.

59

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 09, 2019, 03:44:49 AM »

That’s not the twin paradox then.

Edit: after reading the OP more, this is indeed not the twin paradox.

It is still twin paradox. Because we can use time dilation formula like in original version of twin paradox.

60

Flat Earth Debate / Re: How to solve twin paradox in special relativity

« on: July 08, 2019, 01:16:13 AM »

I didn’t read any of the responses so this may have been covered.

The twin paradox already has a solution. Both twins see the other as moving but only one twin felt an acceleration. The one that felt the acceleration to get up to a moving velocity is the twin with the moving reference frame.

Both experience acceleration, they have similar situation.