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Messages - JackBlack

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1
"Karens" tend to be entitled females, and here on this forum we have have our very own "Karen", in the form of a male - a very very entitled male.
I would say there are plenty of entitled people here.
Such as wise, so entitled they think they should be allowed to spout whatever nonsense they want without having anyone object, nor any judgement based upon it.

The issue isn't that someone holds an unconventional belief, but that they may refuse to let others express their views without judgment or attack. We all should be free to share what we believe without fear of being dismissed or belittled simply because our ideas don’t fit with the mainstream.
See, this is further demonstrating your entitlement.

How would you feel if expressed the opinion that every single person who has ever stepped foot in Turkey, including all Turkish citizens, etc, should be rounded up and killed?

Would be happy and tolerant of them expressing their belief without passing judgement at all or attempting to attack that belief?
I highly doubt it.

Again, it is a 2 way street.
You are free to express your opinion/unconventional belief.
And others are free to call you out on it.

They are not judging you simply because your belief doesn't "fit with the mainstream", but because your beliefs contradict reality, and are shown to be wrong by plenty of evidence which you just dismiss as fake because it doesn't fit your beliefs.

At the core, intellectual freedom means respecting others' rights to think differently. Karen-like behavior arises when people fail to extend that respect to others, trying to impose their views rather than engage in constructive dialogue.
Which you never do.

2
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Why care if the earth is flat?
« on: December 08, 2024, 11:48:14 AM »
That’s what’s very odd about this, among the many others.
That isn't odd at all.
If you want to capture the entire flight upwards, you would likely want to capture it with different cameras, where some are set up beforehand to see further away objects much better and others are set to see closer ones better.
You wouldn't try to use the same camera for all.

Even then, most people are more concerned about what the rocket sees than what you see of the rocket on the ground.

What would you want to do when filming a rocket, with any camera or instrument? You’d want to magnify it, with your instruments!
And use more than one instrument to film it, by other people taking videos of it.
i.e. use multiple instruments, and then combine it for the best footage.
i.e. the very thing you said was odd.

And magnification is not magic.
They can't just keep zooming in and seeing it.

What are they hiding from us, not showing it in close up?
Nothing.
You are desperate for them to be hiding something so you claim they are.

If you think they are, why haven't you gone filmed a rocket with as much magnification as you can manage?

it’s that they would film it with magnification and never show it to us that’s fishy as hell!
So your fantasy with no basis in reality.

3
We see depth and distances out in two dimensions, over a two dimensional flat plane or surface with straight lines and boundaries.
No, we don't.
We see based upon angles. That would more appropriately described as a sphere.

A curved surface is a three dimensional surface, not two dimensional.
No, a surface is 2 dimensional. For a sphere, that uses latitude and longitude. 2 dimensions.
The surface is embedded in three dimensions.
A volume is 3D.

Spheres as large as Earth don’t exist or are ever seen
Except Earth and other planets.

so it’s hard to imagine what it would look like, but it would look very different than what we do see on Earth now.
And yet again such a BS statement.
You claim it is hard to imagine, but assert it must be different.
If you can't imagine it then you can't say what it would be like.

Conversely, I have explained repeatedly how it matches what is observed on Earth.

Depth and distance out on a spherical curved surface doesn’t exist for longer views. The surface curves down below our view.
i.e. you get a horizon, which blocks the view.
i.e. exactly what we see in reality.

Now care to stop lying to everyone and answer the questions you have continued to avoid because you know they show you are a lying POS?
Or try being honest for once in your life and admit you cannot answer them because reality does not match a flat Earth.

Why does the horizon form at 5 km?
Why does it vary with altitude?
What is this magical formula you claim you have?
Why does the angle of dip increase with increasing altitude?

Can you honestly answer any of these, or are you only capable of repeating the same pathetic lies again and again?

4
Okay, please draw
No. Stop with the pathetic deflections and repeating the same refuted BS.

It has been explained to you countless times how perspective will work on a round surface with you entirely incapable of showing any fault.

Now care to stop lying to everyone and answer the questions you have continued to avoid because you know they show you are a lying POS?
Or try being honest for once in your life and admit you cannot answer them because reality does not match a flat Earth.

Why does the horizon form at 5 km?
Why does it vary with altitude?
What is this magical formula you claim you have?
Why does the angle of dip increase with increasing altitude?

Can you honestly answer any of these, or are you only capable of repeating the same pathetic lies again and again?

5
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Why care if the earth is flat?
« on: December 08, 2024, 02:13:18 AM »
You’ve never had any proof of anything at all, so what makes you an expert on proof?
I have had plenty of proof from the RE side.

Just no proof from FEers.

Now stop just repeating pathetic BS, and start trying to defend it.

Again, all the evidence shows no firmament.
You have NOTHING to indicate it exists except a shitty old book full of so much BS it isn't funny.

Not any blue seen below that rocket? Strange, it should be seen by that point!

Where did the blue go? It must be hiding somewhere!
And have you actually bothered checking?
Do you know what the white balance was for the camera? Do you know if it auto adjusts?
Do you even have a reference for the ground from up close?

No.
You are just desperate so you make up whatever BS you need and pretend it is true.

6
Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« on: December 08, 2024, 02:10:58 AM »
still are believed as true without a shred of valid evidence for any of them.
Again, try it honestly.
Without any evidence lying POS like you will accept.
You rejecting it because it shows you are wrong doesn't mean it isn't valid.

It obviously would be seen by us
Not when you choose to continue to look at Saturn with crap and make up whatever excuse you can to avoid getting a decent instrument.

Their claims of seeing all this bs through a primitive instrument were simply a pack of lies
That is your pathetic baseless claim you are yet to substantiate in any way.

Stop reaping the same BS, and start defending your BS.

You can’t say one feature is blurred out on Saturn from an effect or whatever, it would blur out everything there
As we see in all the footage you have provided.

It’s not my burden
It is your burden to prove they lied.
To either show that the instruments you have are capable of seeing what they claimed to see, and then showing they don't see what they claim to see, or getting a better instrument than what they had.

So far you have just resorted to using crap.

Which makes you take on their claims like they were YOUR OWN claims, fully and entirely so.
No, it doesn't.
I am objecting to your claims that they are liars.
A claim you are yet to justify.
A claim you are doing everything you can to pretend you don't have to justify.

I don't need to defend their claim to object to your claims that they are liars.

you look like a fool who can’t accept the truth.
Projecting again I see.

Again, when you keep on saying I need to show proof of their claims being lies
It is being honest.
When you keep deflecting from that and trying to demand others prove you wrong, it shows you are a dishonest POS.

You want to play the defender of their claims without needing proof for their claims, you cannot do that, nobody can, nobody gets away with such garbage.
Go tell that to every defence attorney in existence.
They don't need to positively prove the defendant is innocent. Instead, they need to show the prosecutor has failed to prove they are guilty.

You can’t be a troll that picks out something from the other side and demands they show proof for it, while avoiding your own burden of your position on it.
You mean exactly what you tried to do in this thread?

They’ve been proven as lies
No, they haven't.
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the same BS, it wont magically make it true.

Do you expect me to look at all the evidence showing no multiple belts
Again, try it honestly.
That is NOT what it shows.
You are yet to demonstrate it would be capable of seeing multiple belts, so it not showing multiple belts is not showing no multiple belts.
There is a fundamental difference.
What you are doing is like taking a picture of a cat, and claiming because that photo doesn't show multiple belts on Saturn, that must be proof that Saturn doesn't have multiple belts.

There’s only one possible conclusion to make about their claims.
That you are desperate and trying to reject them at all costs.

It’s a fairy tale you want here, it’s not going to come true, like it or not, so deal with it or deny it, that’s your choice.
And more projection.

You say that you’d accept my own videos, with no other videos taken by others with the same telescope I used?
And after you’ve called me a liar about everything I’ve said so far, you’d suddenly believe my videos are valid and true?
Why wouldn’t you need to see others take videos of Saturn with the same telescope to confirm if mine are the same as theirs? I could easily fake it, you know that, right? But you’d trust that I didn’t fake it, or lie about it, when you’ve said the opposite about me all this time?

So you are already admitting you're a lying POS that would fake it?

Again, if you want to show they lied, get actual evidence that they did. That is one way to do it.
Stop making excuses.

Why aren’t there others who have that same telescope taking videos of Saturn and the stars?
Because they see no reason to.

it’s conclusive proof of them faking the whole thing, and will be discovered in 2255 and create a huge scandal worldwide.
You sure do love clinging to your delusional fantasies don't you?

7
Flat Earth Debate / Re: How does gravity works in FE?
« on: December 08, 2024, 01:52:07 AM »
There’s no object found in motion
Plenty of objects are found in motion.

This is the most idiotic bs ever made up.
No, the most idiotic BS ever made up would be people claiming that what puts it into motion matters and that magically causes it to stop, that pushing something to make it move, will magically make it stop.

Go try telling that to drivers. Tell them that if they want to stop, they should slam down on the accelerator, and to not bother using the brake, because the brake clearly doesn't matter.

The energy causing its motion does go somewhere, it is spent by the objects motion as energy and dies out.
That isn't going anywhere. That is magically vanishing.

which is using that energy as it moves from that energy it received.
If it is using that energy as it moves, then that energy needs to be going somewhere. For example, if it is moving through the air, there is air resistance and drag which converts the energy to heat.

ignores why it IS in motion to begin with, and that’s simply stupid.
Again, the stupidity is acting like what puts it into motion will magically stop it.

Objects are in motion when within the air, by their density creating its motion downward which creates its force of the objects motion in falling through air.
So pure magic, which doesn't work at all.

8
No, that is not how different densities work.
Sand rests on denser soil, the soil rests on even denser rock.
No, that isn't how density works.

I can take a steel ball, and rest it on an aluminium table, which is much less dense than it.

The air rests on the surface of Earth, becoming a layer of denser air, and air above that layer is less dense than air below it, and so on upward with all the air.
The same as water does, with less density in each higher layer of water than the bottom of it on ground below all water.
Why?
Why does it magically become layers of different density?
What magic causes this difference in density?

But more importantly, why does this create a pressure gradient?

You know, the issue that was directly raised which you cannot address?

Air can be put inside a tank and become compressed air. Water can be pressurized too.
And the question is what is pressurising them?

That would not happen if your made up force existed though. All air WOULD be ‘pulled down’ to the surface by your magical force.
Repeating the same pathetic lies, directly after they have been refuted just further demonstrates your dishonesty.

That is your strawman. A strawman you cannot justify at all.

Back in reality, as I already said, each layer pushes down on the layer below, transferring the weight of the layer above, pressurising the layer below, which in turn pushes up.

This directly explains why we have a pressure gradient.

Real forces do not vary in strength
They are proportional to something, as explained repeatedly.
Now stop fleeing form the pressure gradient and explain it.

They need every excuse possible and still don’t work at all.
That is your delusional BS.
The mainstream model doesn't need any excuses and you are yet to show a single example where it doesn't work, and instead just keep repeating the same refuted BS.

Again, EXPLAIN THE PRESSURE GRADIENT!

Pressure is created by more density within what is within the mediums.
HOW?
Stop just providing vague BS, and explain directly how the pressure gradient forms.

Especially note that this pressure gradient depends upon height, not how much fluid is there.

Why would we need to create a force to pull things down to Earth when density does that?
Because density doesn't.

Why would God create
Again, you can leave your imaginary fiend out of this.

And that we had to see the truth from the lies and choose the right path to follow on.
And yet here you are, choosing the path of lies.

Again, EXPLAIN THE PRESSURE GRADIENT!



If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.

9
We know if our plane is flying level by each side having equally high horizons seen out each sides windows, seen from each sides seats out their windows.
Which in no way demonstrates the horizon is level.

Each window must be viewed out as level.
At which point you are just moving the problem.
How are you verifying that you are viewing them level?

They show horizons halfway up level views out of plane windows, at all altitudes you are at.
Repeating the same pathetic lies wont help you.

Again, a view looking down, means the middle of the window is below level, and anything below that is further below level.
So the picture YOU PROVIDED shows the horizon is BELOW level.
Lying will not save you. It just shows everyone that you are a dishonest, lying POS willing to spout whatever dishonest BS you think will save you.

You deliberately picked out two different viewing angles out the window
No, YOU picked those.

As a reminder, you provided them here:
Plane window frames show exactly what we see of horizons at all altitudes above Earth is always halfway up the windows.

Here’s a few examples of this..

https://stock.adobe.com/ca/images/airplane-window-view-on-the-clouds-and-blue-sky-horizon-plane-wing-vertical-view-in-porthole/269019636

https://flux-image.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fai.flux-image.com%2Fflux%2F3e5830dc-7607-4d0c-aba2-7b5bb4c76927.jpg&w=3840&q=75

https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-1111637939-passenger-pov-looking-out-plane-window

You were so desperate to pretend the horizon is level, and so deluded or arrogant that you just picked photos and provided without even checking to see if the evidence you provided matched your claims.
That is because you don't care what the evidence shows.
You have decided what you want reality to be, and will just pretend the evidence matches.

So the fool here is YOU! All the crap you are saying now about the photos not being write just demonstrates that you can't even get evidence to match what you claim.

YOU chose the photos and they demonstrated you are a lying POS.

Now care to stop lying to everyone and answer the questions you have continued to avoid because you know they show you are a lying POS?
Or try being honest for once in your life and admit you cannot answer them because reality does not match a flat Earth.

Why does the horizon form at 5 km?
Why does it vary with altitude?
What is this magical formula you claim you have?
Why does the angle of dip increase with increasing altitude?

Can you honestly answer any of these, or are you only capable of repeating the same pathetic lies again and again?

10
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Gravity and the poles
« on: December 08, 2024, 01:26:45 AM »
Smog and fog and mist and heat hazes in the sky, block out things beyond them. Rainbows block out things past their arcs. Then why doesn’t the blue within the skies block out anything above it!
Pure nonsense.

Fog is actually a great example of just how wrong you are.
There isn't some magical distance which it blocks everything beyond, instead, it reduces visibility, by scattering the light.
Depending on how dense the fog is, you might be able to see a good distance away, or you might only be able to see a m in front of you.
And when things move away, they don't just reach a point where they switch from being in front of it to behind it. They slowly fade out.

The same happens with the blue sky, where it slowly makes things appear more and more blue, but a very small amount.

The only reason the blue is so noticeable, is because there is no other significant light shining through it.

Isn’t your moon supposed to be 250000 miles up from the ball Earth in the blackness of endless ‘space’?
And it is. And if you look at it during the day, and compare it to looking at it during the night, there is a clear blue tint to it during the day, from that blue sky you are viewing it through.
And it isn't that it is coloured black, it is that it is dark.
It is the "black" of a room with all the lights out.

So you wouldn't expect to see the black behind the blue and that makes no sense at all.

We also see nothing blue in the skies from planes
I already provided a video showing that's a lie. Why just repeat the lie?

Air is 99% seen through from above it and is entirely clear.
What do you mean 99% seen through?
Do you mean you are seeing through 99% of the air? If so, you aren't.
The air pressure at 35 000 ft (cruising altitudes for planes) is over 0.2 bar, meaning over 20% of the air is still above you.

And you are yet to provide anything to show it is clear.

Instead, all you do is continually assert whatever BS you think you need to pretend your delusional fantasy is true.
But your assertions are worthless.

The moon blocks out the blue above it,
No it doesn't. Instead, during the take it takes on a blue tint, from the blue sky you see it through.

Everything indicates the blue is within the waters of the Firmament.
Literally nothing does.
You are yet to present a single piece of evidence supporting your delusional BS.
Meanwhile, plenty has been provided that shows you are wrong.

But don’t let facts stop what you believe
There you go projecting again.

11
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Why care if the earth is flat?
« on: December 08, 2024, 01:16:08 AM »
They’re all edited and faked scenes put into them.
i.e. after WHAT YOU PROVIDED shows you are wrong, you are now desperate to dismiss it as fake.

They removed the original video of it, and put in edited crap versions of it.
PROVE IT!
Stop just asserting the same pathetic BS.

What is more likely? That every piece of footage from it has been edited in the same way to produce the same results and show the same upwards motion, with all the original footage entirely removed with you unable to provide it; or YOU ARE WRONG, you saw a crappy video where a dishonest conman claims that it hit the dome, simply because it stopped spinning so fast and that was all it took for you to think it stopped, but then when examined more closesly it only stops spinning, but you deny it because you are desperate for your delusional fantasy to be true.

Are you aware of that? Did you see the original video they showed online?
Yes, and the rocket continued to go up.

These versions still show the same first part we saw in the original, except they took out the view from ground now.
You mean the version cherry picked by dishonest FEers to lie to everyone and claim it hit a firmament?

Why would they do that? Oh to pretend there is a firmament when they have absolutely no evidence of it.

The original video showed when the rocket hit the Firmament and floated there, like their versions do.
PROVE IT!
Stop just asserting delusional BS and start justifying your claims.

Because so far, you have NOTHING to justify your BS.

12
Why would I need to buy a gravimeter and do experiments when I can just read multiple experts state directly that gravimeters are seismometers
Again, even if you want to pretend they are seismometers, that still doesn't help you.
It is still measuring a varying value of g which would tear Earth apart if "gravity" was simply Earth accelerating upwards.

You keep calling seismometers as if that magically solves everything for you, but it doesn't.
It doesn't help at all.

I, myself, am satisfied with the information.
You mean the information which clearly demonstrates a variation of g across Earth?

those references
Links to your site of lies are not references.

I provided actual references, which you proceeded to ignore.
References which clearly demonstrate a variation in g.

Okay, when you have properly controlled experimentation to reference please let us know. Otherwise, I am only interested in discussing actual data.
You clearly aren't interested in discussing anything.
Your only interest appears to be pretending your fantasy works and coming up with nonsense to dismiss anything that shows it doesn't.

13
Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« on: December 07, 2024, 05:04:11 PM »
If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering

Wonder no more. You are still being silly.

Not that you care, but I for one, would have a lot more respect for you if you were to take any video of Saturn.

Don't worry, in ten years time when Elon Musk puts the first man on Mars, I'm sure you'll be one of the first to say Elon Musk lied as well.
Wasn't that meant to have happened by 2011?
He has already lied so much.

14
Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« on: December 07, 2024, 02:13:14 PM »
Except all the same footage shows the distinct ring separated in the middle by a dark area
No it doesn't.
Some is so unclear you can't see that separation at all.

Certainly if our videos show the distinct two parts of the ring and the area in between, we’d see multiple distinct rings too
No. Why would it?

You may as well be saying that if your footage shows a house, even if it is completely tiny and blurry with no features seen, you should be able to see the doorknob.
It is delusional nonsense with no justification at all.

Every new generation of liars who follow previous liars is at more and more risk of being caught and made an example out of.
As you have been caught and made an example of repeatedly.
Maybe you should stop following the FE liars?

If I get such a telescope and take a video of Saturn, which will show no multiple distinct belts once again, you’ll accept they lied about it all? Just wondering
If you get such a telescope, set it up properly with an appropriate camera that is fixed to it, set it to track Saturn, in an appropriate location (out of the city to avoid a turbulent atmosphere), taking videos of Saturn throughout the year, with those videos being high quality, all of which don't show belts, I'll accept it.

But remember, I already gave you a much simpler task. Filming a 1 m wide object through 10 km of sea level atmosphere.

What is the weasel going to say? We’ll see folks, I can’t wait
Yes, what will you say?

15
Air is denser than a vacuum, so more air is at the surface than higher up.

Your made up force would pull down all the air to the surface and leave the rest a vacuum. Aren’t you happy it’s made up bs now?
Yet again you could not be further from the truth.

If density is causing it, then the air would all come down. You would have a layer of air of uniform density, and vacuum above.
You would not get a pressure gradeint.
But the air is not the only fluid with a pressure gradient. ALL HAVE IT.
Even water.
You can take water in one container, and pour it into a container of a different shape and get a different pressure in it because of the different height.
It is clearly not merely separating due to density.

Meanwhile, as already explained, gravity explains it just fine.
If you consider a layer of the fluid, that layer is being pulled down by gravity and in turn pushing on the layer below, pressurising the layer below.
This pressurised layer below then pushes up the layer above.
That means all the weight of the fluid above is pushing down on the layer below.
So as you get lower, with more weight above, the pressure increases.

Once more, YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THE PRESSURE GRADIENT!
If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.

16
Flat Earth Debate / Re: How does gravity works in FE?
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:58:36 PM »
create energy
Again, semantic BS will not save you.

It doesn't matter if you want to pretend potential energy is not energy and that when you convert from potential into other forms like kinetic energy; you still have the same problem.
That "energy" is not coming into existence from no where. It is coming from that potential energy.

Understand that yet?

When objects are created as motionless
Who says they are?

Regardless that doesn't matter.
Once they are in motion, they are in motion and need a force to stop them and need somewhere for that energy to go.
It doesn't magically vanish.

He completely bypassed where the object was first motionless and what gave it energy to BE in motion!
Or he recognised that is irrelevant, because it doesn't matter.

Again, once the object is in motion, you need a force to stop it and somewhere for that energy to go. It doesn't magically stop.

Thanks for buying this shit you idiots
I'm not buying your shit because I'm not an idiot.

When a plane is in motion it will tend to stay in motion unless acted on by another force. Fuel isn’t a problem, it flies for infinity in air unless acted on by another force!
And a big force for planes is drag from air resistance.
Without using an engine to keep it moving forwards, that drag would eventually stop it.
That is also why planes are typically made to be aerodynamic, to minimise the effect of drag.

Another big one is gravity.

The fact an additional force is needed to stop it, doesn't mean you can just ignore other forces.

A force must be invented for things to stay on the surface of  the ball Earth. A second force must be invented for objects that rise against the first made up force. Gravity and Buoyancy we commend you! Thanks for g he eloping our bs story!
No, a force is needed to make things accelerate down.
Buoyancy is a direct result of this first force as explained to you repeatedly.

Again, if we were happy to just use magic like you do, that magic would work just as well on a round Earth.

The only one appealing to crap to save a BS story is you.

The answer is gravity is a made up bs force,  nobody needs it or wants it around, so it can F off and die
While plenty of people may not want gravity, all the evidence shows it exists.
If you want to disagree, you need to explain what makes things fall and how this creates a pressure gradient and so on.

17
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Why care if the earth is flat?
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:51:56 PM »
A black square
Not a black square.
2 frames from the video, showing the same feature, with the latter frame showing it smaller, clearly demonstrate the craft is further away and thus it is continuing to rise.

Why would the evidence stop your delusional belief system  at this point? Nothing else does m m.
There you go projecting again.
You were provided the evidence that shows you are wrong, and you are so desperate to ignore it you pretend it is just a black square.

Remember this which you just ignored entirely a threw a tantrum instead:
i.e. you have absolutely no comparison for how the ground should appear to be changing, and then make a bold claim (which has been refuted, and shown to be pure BS) based upon a tiny portion of the video.

Meanwhile, again, the ground IS changing:
Quote
https://i.imgur.com/9MhFzOG.gif

You can even see a side by side comparison:


On the left, just after the spin slows down, the red line is ~341 px. On the right, after almost another spin, it is only ~308 px.

Features on the ground are appearing to shrink.
It is not the same ground.
There is NOTHING to indicate it has magically stopped.
You lying will not change that.

Once more, you have NOTHING to support your BS claims, and your own evidence shows you are a lying POS.

18
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Gravity and the poles
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:49:13 PM »
Rockets have never flown up into the blue above, with blue below them.
Your wilful rejection of reality does not change it.

The skies below us in planes is entirely clear, never anything of blue seen at all.
Except as already shown that is another lie.

So it cannot be blue within air
It certainly can be, as shown repeatedly.

Proven as complete bs right there.
Your claims have been proven as BS. But you just ignore that and repeat the same BS.

Why be an idiot to buy that bs? It’s proven as bs, and you still buy this crap.  You are a lost cause indeed. Hope you use your brain someday and get a clue.
No. YOU buy this crap, and keep trying to sell it to others.
Why would be an idiot and believe your BS?
Your claims of a firmament and a magic sky, which you cannot justify at all?
Claims which are disproven by countless videos.

19
Look at any of the calculators that give the distance to any horizon from any height above the surface,,it’s that simple.
You mean all the ones using round Earth math?
e.g. this one here:
https://www.ringbell.co.uk/info/hdist.htm

2 m gives me 5.1 km.
20 m gives me 16.
This is quite obviously a different ratio.
Why didn't 20 m give me 51 km, or alternatively 2 m give me 1.6 km?
Going up to 200 m gives me 50.5 km.
So increasing the height by a factor of 100 only increases the distance by roughly a factor of 10.
This matches what is expected for a round surface.


No formula here for a curved surface, it would vary greatly with more height above a ball and not be a constant rate at all.
And what we see is the exact opposite.
IT IS NOT A CONSTANT RATE!
Instead, the rate varies with altitude, just like we would expect for a round Earth.

You yet again appeal to a formula. Why don't you provide it?
Provide the formula you think describes the distance to the horizon.
And then I'll show you where the curvature of Earth is.

Another point - they never mention the apparent height we see those horizons. It is the same height obviously or it would be noted.
And once more appealing to your wilful ignorance.
You are specifically looking for a calculator to see the DISTANCE. Why then would it tell you the angle?

If you want the angle, why don't you look for a calculator for that?
But some do give it.
e.g. this one here:
http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Advanced+Earth+Curvature+Calculator

And again, THE EVIDENCE YOU PROVIDED shows clearly that the horizon goes below level.
You have no excuse now.

Not only that, it would mean they can’t have a single constant rate of distance to horizons either.
And they don't, as shown repeatedly.

Care to stop ignoring that fact?

Thankfully no ball Earth exists for such problems would be impossible to excuse.
You mean it does exist and your repeatedly are impossible to excuse.

want you to use your brain and figure that out yourself.
Perhaps you should try that some time.


Now again, answer the questions or admit you can't explain any of it with a flat Earth.

Why does the horizon form at 5 km?
Why does it vary with altitude?
What is this magical formula you claim you have?
Why does the angle of dip increase with increasing altitude?

Can you honestly answer any of these, or are you only capable of repeating the same pathetic lies again and again?

20
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Simple Test you can do (mostly) at home.
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:39:52 PM »
No, you’re using circular paths that wouldn’t exist or be seen like that.
I have explained why it would exist, and why it would be seen like that.
You have provided NOTHING to counter it, instead just continually making the same assertions.

Our actual view outward to stars would match up to the path rotation for your ball Earth.
Why do you keep appealing to a path?

Again, the rotation is about an axis.
And the distance to the stars makes the distance from any point on Earth to the axis of rotation of Earth entirely negligible.

So you can treat it as an axis passing directly through you, aligned with the axis of rotation of Earth.


Imagine ball Earth with the North Star above a point.
And importantly, imagine the distance to it being many many many many many many many many many many many many times the distance between you and the axis of rotation.
That means the rotation will have no significant effect on your ability to see the north pole star.

As an example with numbers, say a hypothetical pole star is just 6.73 light years away, and directly in line with the axis of Earth, and you are on the equator.
Well, that 6.73 light years equates to roughly 63 700 000 000 000 km.
So the parallax angle will be given by atan(6371 / 63 700 000 000 000) = 0.0000000057 degrees. So the star, if you could see it over an entire 24 hour period, would appear to trace a tiny circle that has an angular diameter of roughly 0.00000001 degrees.
That is going to be too small for you to notice.

So no, the north star will not soon be out of view.

If instead you want to start at the north pole and walk away, you would need to reach the equator for it to be out of view.

So no, this does NOT prove Earth is not a ball rotating in space.
Instead, what we observes matches it quite well.

Again, compare this to a flat Earth with the stars circling above.
Then to an observer at the centre it would appear as circles. To everyone else, it would appear as ellipses, with no stars being blocked from view.

This proves it is not a flat disc with the stars circling above.

21
Flat Earth General / Re: New to all this
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:29:13 PM »

Let us take into account only the flat Earth theory
No, lets keep reality on the table where Earth is round.

these phenomena are absolutely impossible in the globularist hypothesis.
Why?
Because you say so?

These phenomena are clear evidence that Earth is round and the sun is not circling above a flat disc.

Therefore, the assumptions of the given examples are impossible
And don't forget other examples.

If Earth was flat and the sun was 5000 km high, then for the sun to appear at an angle of 45 degrees, it would need to be above a point 5000 km away.
Which does match up to what is observed, and other heights of the sun don't.

If instead you put in a height of 12 km, you end up with a distance of 12 km needed.

With a sun that low over a flat disc, it should appear quite low in the sky for the vast majority of the time, only rising high when the sun approaches the subsolar point.


Do you know what it key to all those examples? Earth being flat with the sun circling above.
It is that baseless assumption which is impossible.

And guess what? We don't even need to appeal to the height for it.
Consider the equinox, where to observers along an entire line of longitude, the sun is observed due east, and 180 degrees away it is observed due west.
Even if we ignore that 180 degree away part, and make an allowance of 1 degree, and limit it to just 5 000 km from the equator, that still requires a distance of 286 000 km, putting it completely off Earth.

So yes, all those examples are impossible, because they use a flat Earth.

Using a round Earth you have no problem.

A rainbow made in a garden
You don't need a garden.
You can do it entirely inside.

What it requires is droplets of water to deflect the light, with different wavelengths coming off at a different angle.

Water is what causes the rainbow.

Your imaginary firmament has nothing to do with it.
You can provide no justification for why it is needed, nor explain why we can't see it just from the firmament alone.

Meanwhile, I can explain why all we need is water.
As light goes through water droplets, it reflects and disperses, this results in light coming out at a different angle for each wavelength.
The geometry of a rainbow is based entirely upon that angle.
From the sun, to the droplet, to your eye.
That causes it to be a circle.

I have already mentioned several pieces of evidence
No, you haven't.
You have mentioned a few things which don't support your claim at all.

Doppler effect
Does not require aether.

In the Boötes Void, the "low presence of galaxies" may be a result
Of plenty of things.
What it certainly isn't is some magic making it harder for light to pass through. As we can still see things behind it.

"𝙋𝙧𝙤𝙫𝙚 𝙞𝙩."
So your 2 sources are a crappy news article stating claims, which doesn't even link to a paper and the one link it does have doesn't work; and an article saying that a vacuum can still have particles in it which can still slow down light, and which appeals to a theoretical possibility that the speed of light is not fixed.

So I'll say again, PROVE IT!

Many people claim this, are they all lying?
Lying or confused.

There are liars everywhere.
Yet you happily believe them.

Science has documented cases of people living without eating or drinking:
A news article is not a documentation by science.
It is full of claims, and some show it is nonsense. e.g. it literally states:
Shah said that Jani gargled water and took baths, but consumed nothing.
How do they know he didn't consume any of that water he gargled, or any from the bath?
They are admitting they literally saw him put water into his mouth, but then claim he didn't drink anything.

The evidence is anecdotal.
Not when you have instruments which document it.

Anyone can test astral projection and prove to themselves that it is real.
Or prove it's not.

There are still other possibilities that should be investigated
One big one you want to keep ignoring is that Earth is round.

https://web.archive.org/web/20090404141630/https://www.science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast09dec97_3.htm
Which don't show any evidence of a second sun.

22
Flat Earth General / Re: New to all this
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:26:52 PM »
Light arrives straight and only starts to bend when it is closer to the surface, where gravity is stronger, the distance/height of the celestial bodies makes no difference.
This then requires the light to be going straight down to Earth because it then magically bends up, and light to not come in from any other angle.

These results are expected for RE only in your imagination.
No, not my imagination, reality.

Aether was proven by general relativity
No it wasn't.
Not at all.
People who are desperate to cling to the aether might pretend it does, but it does not.

Observations of stars prove the existence of aether and the magnification effect generated by aether
No, they don't.
Again, these are the results directly expected for a RE.
No need to invoke any magical aether.

Your inability to understand how light works, and how can you still see bright enough objects which are too small to resolve, does not make aether exist.

Distance and altitude. The aether gradients are parabolic.
Still not explaining how.

Imagine the light rays as ropes, the ends of the ropes will bend when they touch the ground.
NO!
Don't just tell me to imagine them as something fundamentally different to what they are to pretend your nonsense works.
Instead, clearly explain what is making them bend up, because it clearly isn't what you are claiming before.

Again, an honest analogy to imagine them as would be a ball thrown through the air, or an rod suspended at one end, with it curving down.

This is enough
It is not enough to do anything, as it still completely lacks any kind of explanation.

Even RE scientists are beginning to reject this.
No, they aren't.
Gravity is quite well established and known to cause large finite objects like Earth to collapse into a roughly spherical shape.
Any model trying to tie together general relativity and quantum mechanics will still have that.

the absurd and disproven mass attraction hypothesis.
You mean the experimentally verified fact?

A globular Earth does not solve the problems related to gravity
For the problems being discussed, IT DOES!

Mass attraction is completely incapable of explaining some of the variations in gravitational acceleration. Read the links and you will see why.
Have you bothered reading the links?
Because guess what? One even describes you:
Quote
In fact, one can find these first results still cited even today (usually incompletely, incorrectly, and/or with significant creative embellishments) as evidence for a hollow Earth,3 government conspiracies, coverups, UFOs, and/or for the general failure of Newton’s law of gravity.
And it even explains it:
Quote
for additional measurements.5 In some cases the pendulums were closer together at the bottom, though in most cases they were farther apart and there was no difference seen between the use of magnetic and non-magnetic materials. Based on a very strong correlation with ventilation conditions, they concluded that the effect was entirely due to the significant (natural) airflow in the mine shafts.
But that doesn't stop people like you dishonestly misrepresenting it to pretend that it contradicts gravitational models.

This hypothesis was ruled out by the researchers. In a mine, you would have a few meters to kilometers of mass above you, but you would also have thousands of kilometers of mass below you exerting a much greater pull.
A much greater pull than the mass above you, or a much greater pull than on the surface?

A calm refraction would not be able to make a target visible below a curve
Continuing to repeat the same false claim wont save you.
Once more, the greater distances makes that behind the horizon rise more, allowing it to be seen over the horizon.

And you don't even really need to consider that.
Again, the horizon is former when the line of sight from your eye is tangent to Earth. That gives one particular distance based upon your height if light travels in straight lines. If instead light curves downwards due to refraction that will necessarily be a greater distance.

If you want to claim otherwise you need more than just an assertion.

With several curved walls in the outer blue circle
So you are now abandoning your idea of a torus. Why provide it if you are just going to discard it?
If you allow multiple curved walls, then you can get something like this:

and make the universe as large as you want.
That then means there is problem with the RE model and the massive universe it has.

And they are really your only 2 options.
Either the universe must entirely fit inside a sphere of that limiting radius, or it can be arbitrarily large.

Apparently, the measurement described for the firmament is correct, because it corresponds to what is expected, but the other measurements cannot be correct.
i.e. you dismiss anything that doesn't fit your fantasy, rejecting pretty much the entire thing, but then happily accept and cling to a single measurement which you want.

We know that the first firmament must be below the Sun, because rainbows
have nothing at all to do with the firmement.

a Sun below the firmament
You leave out the sane option, a sun without a firmament.

The height of the Sun (and the Moon too) is ≈ 12 km
No, it isn't.
Showing pictures which clearly show the FE model is wrong doesn't help you.
Especially not with how much you are demanding light curves.

Try getting a real time video of a plane taking off just before mid day, quite close to the path of the subsolar point, and then flying up above the sun, at mid day, so the sun passes below it.

But also notice just how ridiculous your position would need to be now.
You have the sun appear below the plane to claim it must be below, but then have the sun above the firmament, while the plane needs to be below it.
That just doesn't add up.

if they were, refraction and perspective would not be sufficient to cause this illusion.
They aren't sufficient to explain what is observed already with a FE. So you appeal to magical aether which you cannot justify or explain, so how do you know it can't?

23
They are described by mainstream sources as seismometers which look for gravity signals in the subseismic band. It is not testing gravity directly.
No, they are not.
Repeating the same false claims wont make them true.

Regardless, even if it was true, it still doesn't save your pancake.

You misunderstand the Equivalence Principle.
No, I don't.
The equivalence principle is that a uniform gravitational field is equivalent to uniform acceleration.
It says NOTHING about one simulating the other.

Don't bother trying to make appeals to authority to justify it, unless you are willing to accept those appeals to show Earth is round.

And again, even if true, it still doesn't save your pancake.

Those papers are talking about gravimeter surveys.
Yes, including both absolute and relative ones.

They clearly demonstrate a variation in g across the surface of Earth, something you are desperate to deny and something you cannot explain.
Instead, you just whatever dishonest BS you can think of to wave it away.

Regardless of if they are seismometers or accelerometers or gravimeters, they show a variation in g across the surface of Earth.
If this apparent downwards acceleration was caused by Earth accelerating upwards, the variations in g will tear Earth apart.

When you come up with a collection of evidence which rebuts this, let me know and then we can continue this conversation.
I have. I have provided and you just ignored it.

Try to directly address what was provided and not just link to your site of lies.
Can you do that?

24
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Simple Test you can do (mostly) at home.
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:44:02 AM »
A ball Earth would certainly offer different paths over all points on it.
Continuing to repeat the same lies wont help you.

They claim we see stars rotate in a circle above us because Earth is rotating in a circle, right?
No, it is because Earth is rotating about its axis.
And because of how far away the stars are, the distance between you and that axis is negligible.

So that means to get an idea of what the sky would look like over a night, take a picture of it, and rotate it about the axis of rotation, i.e. the north celestial pole or the south celestial pole.
And guess what path that produces? CIRCLES!

So for a rotating round Earth, we would expect the stars to trace circular paths.

What varies is the angular separation for a given star from the north or south celestial pole, and the orientation of the pole relative to Earth beneath you.
And this will mean for plenty of stars you will not see the entire circle. Instead it will go below the horizon.

Conversely, for a flat Earth, because the stars are so close, the distance from the axis of rotation is quite significant, which will distort those circle into ellipses.

So again, what is observed matches a round Earth.

Stars would be seen moving in every direction upon a rotating ball.
How?
How does rotating magically make stars appear to move in every direction?
For example, how does an west to east rotation make a star appear to move from west to east?

Circular paths to linear paths and all the other paths as well.
No, not a linear path. A circular path in a plane passing through you.
You can project that to a linear path, but it is still fundamentally a circular path.
One big difference between a linear path and a circular path is the rate of change in the angular position. If it is circular, it should be constant. If it is linear, it would vary.

25
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Why care if the earth is flat?
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:25:39 AM »
It’s the reality that it stops flying up after it hits the firmament, it’s not magic, it’s a fact.
No, that is a blatant lie as already proven by the angular size of features on the ground reducing.

Rockets cannot stop instantly in mid air.
But they can stop spinning, or at least slow down the spin a lot.
And that is exactly what it did.
It kept going up, but slowed down how quickly it was spinning.

It’s not in motion as it was until that point. We couldn’t see the ground steadily until that point. It’s nearly stopped spinning at that point.
All of this indicates it has stopped flying upward. No doubt at all
No, it doesn't.
Not in the slightest.
How does it stopping spinning magically mean it has stopped flying upwards?

You may as well be saying you saw a plane do a barrel roll, and then stop spinning, and because it stopped spinning that must have meant it magically stopped entirely.
It is dishonest, delusional BS with no connection to reality at all.

Again, the footage clearly shows it continues to go up.
No amount of lying on your part will change that.

Once more, you have NOTHING to support your delusional BS, and the evidence YOU appealed to shows you are lying to everyone.

Going to admit that yet, or are you going to continue to lie to everyone?

26
Actually an accelerometer shows that the earth is accelerating upwards.
No, it doesn't.
We have been over this countless times.
Due to the equivalence of a uniform gravitational field and accelerating, an accelerometer cannot tell the difference.

The way you can tell the difference is that key part "uniform".
You can tell the difference between a non uniform gravitational field and accelerating, because the measured value is constant for uniform acceleration but varies for a non-uniform gravitational field.

We haven't seen a proper experiment of this. It needs to be done in a vacuum chamber
We have seen plenty. Including ones provided to you before which you fled from because you couldn't refute.
There is no need for a 0 effort link to your site of lies.

Remember this:
It doesn't vary. The experiments which show variations are uncontrolled. There are also contradicting experiments which show no variation. Show us the experiment and I will show you the fallacy.
Continually ignoring reality wont help you.
We have been over this, the atmosphere doesn't provide a significant enough effect to cause these changes.
And there are countless experiments.
e.g. here is one using variations in g to map granite deposits:
https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/gsabulletin/article-abstract/78/7/859/6209/Gravity-Investigations-of-Subsurface-Shape-and

Here is one covering a large area (but behind a paywall):
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/JB076i020p04855

Here is one for Canadia:
https://ostrnrcan-dostrncan.canada.ca/entities/publication/dc701d1a-870d-4f7d-b67d-929bf13d2fc1

Meanwhile, where are your contradicting experiments which show no variation?

27
They’re not even the same angle of view!!!
THEY ARE WHAT YOU PROVIDED!
So before you object to it, remember that, and object to yourself.
Go call a dishonest, lying POS for providing it.

But appealing to the angle just further demonstrates your dishonesty.

The simple fact is those pictures, and the BS you are suggesting in general, has no ability to determine where level is.
So the horizon appearing in the middle of the window would not show it is level.

And again, have you honestly examined what the view is?
We can easily see that this is looking down. And yet the horizon is still below the middle of the window.

As I explained before, if you are looking down through the window, then the middle of the window is BELOW level, and so the horizon being below that shows the horizon is below level.

So again, your own evidence shows you are a lying POS!
Your own evidence shows that the horizon is BELOW level, just like we expect for a round Earth, and nothing like what is expected for a FE.

So stop with all the pathetic BS and start trying to defend your BS fantasy without just continually rejecting reality because you don't like.


The debate is over, the truth is seen
Yes, the debate is over, your own evidence shows you are a lying POS.
Grow up, and stop spouting BS.

Answer the questions or admit you can't explain any of it with a flat Earth.

Why does the horizon form at 5 km?
Why does it vary with altitude?
What is this magical formula you claim you have?
Why does the angle of dip increase with increasing altitude?

Can you honestly answer any of these, or are you only capable of repeating the same pathetic lies again and again?

28
Flat Earth Debate / Re: Gravity and the poles
« on: December 07, 2024, 01:10:02 AM »
The world was entirely explored and mapped as flat
PROVE IT!
Stop asserting the same pathetic BS, and instead prove it!

The fact that the only accurate map is a globe, and any flat map in existence distorts a portion of land, unless you make the transformations based upon the fact it is a projection of a sphere, clearly demonstrates the world is not flat, and it couldn't possible have been accurately mapped as flat.

long before the scum said
The scum here is YOU, continually saying pure BS without justification.

Surveyors know and measure the surface as flat
No, surveyors know and measure the surface as curved when it is a large enough region, and make a simplification over a smaller region.

Planes measure it as flat
You have had that lie of yours refuted so many times it isn't funny.
Why repeat it?

We’ve always measured and mapped Earths surface as flat
Then why is the most accurate one a globe?

Why do you think after they turned it into a ball map it was a disaster?
It isn't a disaster.
It works wonderfully.

They had to tell us they made it into a projection map
No, to represent it as a flat surface,

Ancient texts refer to the Earth
Who cares what fairy tales say.
The Chronicles of Narnia says there is a parallel world which can be access through a wardrobe. Does that make it true?

All of this could be settled forever if we wanted to.
And it has been, to every honest person.
We have sent plenty of crafts into space and they never hit a firmament, clearly showing it is BS.

But to dishonest people, people so desperate for their fantasy to be true, no evidence will ever be enough.

How can we see a rocket in space today which is under blue skies, but not see rockets going to the moon, while we see the moon below blue skies all the time?
No, we don't.
We see the moon through blue skies. Just like we see rockets through the blue sky.
You seem to want to imagine this as if the sky should be entirely opaque and block out the object, while in reality it just causes a slight tint.

Please fly a rocket straight up, it must eventually go up beyond the blue ‘skies’ of Earth , right?
They already have. You have been provided plenty of footage of things like this.
Yet you dismiss it all, because it doesn't match your delusional fantasy.

If you want more, GET IT YOURSELF YOU LYING POS!

29
I notice you have yet again entirely ignored the pressure gradient.
Why?
Is it because you know there is no way for it to work in your delusional fantasy so you need to flee from it at all costs?

The one same rate of fall and acceleration is throughout the world, nothing changes it.
Prove its different anywhere, and what rate it is. Good luck with that one.
Yet again, appealing to your wilful ignorance.
It is quite well known that the value of g changes around Earth.

Here some I provided earlier:
And there are countless experiments.
e.g. here is one using variations in g to map granite deposits:
https://pubs.geoscienceworld.org/gsa/gsabulletin/article-abstract/78/7/859/6209/Gravity-Investigations-of-Subsurface-Shape-and

Here is one covering a large area (but behind a paywall):
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/JB076i020p04855

Here is one for Canadia:
https://ostrnrcan-dostrncan.canada.ca/entities/publication/dc701d1a-870d-4f7d-b67d-929bf13d2fc1

Why down? Why NOT down? It’s the only logical direction for objects of greater mass within air TO go in!
It is only logical because of gravity.
Gravity tells us that mass attracts other mass.
That tells us that things will fall down to Earth, a large mass.

But without that, there is no basis for a logical direction.

Which is why I asked.

What you’re assuming is that nothing has directionality
No, I'm asking you for a justification for the directionality.

It’s certainly logical to have that direction of falling through air.
Then why are you unable to logically defend it?

Nothing logical in your fairy tale story at all.
Then why are you unable to show any fault?

What would you want to do, being the creator of all things?
Appealing to your imaginary fiend wont help you.

What is the most important thing you want for them? To be safe from harm, to protect them at all costs.
And it is clear that if there is a creator, they either clearly do not want that for us, or they are really shit at it.

If you have a choice, would you put them on a spinning speeding ball flying through endless hazards of soace, or put them under a large shield within a safe controlled environment?
A safe and controlled environment with so many natural disasters and diseases it isn't funny?

The best argument you would have is that you wouldn't have hurricanes or cyclones on a flat Earth which would make things safer.
But the fact we do shows that is not the case.

But there is an even bigger issue you seem to be missing.
How many people have accidentally driven off a cliff and died as a result?
How many things have been moved with a crane and had it fall and kill someone?
How many buildings have collapsed and killed people?
How many buildings have been destroyed due to Earthquakes?
How many people have otherwise died due to gravity?

Imagine how much better it would be if we could fly? If instead of falling, we only moved in the direction we willed ourselves to go in.

If your magic sky fairy created this world and created things to fall, he did so knowing it would kill so many, and that there is a much better alternative.

So your pathetic attempt to appeal to a magic sky fairy doesn't actually work.
You still have no reason for why things should go down.

Once more, YOU NEED TO ADDRESS THE PRESSURE GRADIENT!
If you want to claim magic density, explain what causes the pressure gradient and why this doesn't push things up.
Until you do, your claims remain refuted delusional BS.

Then you can address the other issues you have consistently fled from:
1 - Why down?
2 - Why that rate?
3 - Why doesn't the rate depend directly on density or even the difference in density?
4 - Why does the rate vary across Earth?

Simple questions you can't answer that show you are spouting pure BS.

30
Flat Earth Debate / Re: They've lied to the world about the stars
« on: December 07, 2024, 12:50:36 AM »
Except for every single video of Saturn close enough to show  the same, single feature in the orbs middle region, in various degrees of clarity and quality, while none show any sort of multiple distinct belts?
"in various degrees of clarity and quality", none of which are clear enough to show they lied.

If you believe all our videos are too blurry, to see these multiple distinct belts, then we wouldn’t be able to see the distinct area between the ring around Saturn either
Why?
Because you say so?

but we obviously do see this in all our videos
No you don't,

If there WERE such distinct multiple belts on Saturn, we’d see them
Prove it.
I have told you one way you can. Go take a image of Saturn with its belts and print it out so it is 1 m wide, and view it through 10 km of sea level atmosphere.

Nobody else has ever seen this
You mean no one you wont dismiss as a liar.

We’d certainly never see the same feature in all of them
And we see various degrees of distortion in each.

What’s your point here?
That you have done nothing to justify your claim and instead doing whatever you can to avoid having to justify it.

Stop this bs argument about how I’m supposed to find and purchase some sort of telescope you bleat on about as being the only one which will present to us the valid evidence!
I have never said it is the only one.
Instead I said what you need to actually be evidence.
You don't get to appeal to your wilful ignorance, and you refusal to obtain a sufficient instrument to declare that crap is good enough.

There is a big difference between someone with intelligence used honestly, and when it is used for deceit.
And someone like you, that doesn't appear have intelligence at all, unless you truly think everyone else is a complete imbecile.

What they told the world, that they told us they saw over and over again for years, was just bs.
Why? Because it doesn't match your fantasy?

Astronomy is entirely based on making claims of seeing something or some things by one person, in the one group
No, not by 1 person. By plenty of people. But you group them all together to dismiss them, because reality doesn't match your delusional fantasy.

It’s horrific when they didn’t allow for it.
This is your BS fantasy. You are present anything to justify it.

Over 200 years later on, their claims were never proven or confirmed as true.
You mean they were, but you reject it and group those verifying it in with them to pretend it is just a single group of liars; because you have no interest in accepting reality.

Their claims cannot be proven by seeing through their telescope, scrapped long ago
And you don't have to, you get a telescope just as good as theirs and try it yourself. But you make excuses that you shouldn't have to.

Telescopes of today, any and all of our telescopes today
The vast majority are not good enough.

don’t show any multiple distinct belts on Saturn, or all their other claims either.
And you have personally every telescope to see?
Or are you yet again using your wilful ignorance to boldly proclaim things with no evidence at all?

why aren’t there any videos using them?
That is a question for you and other people like you.
Why haven't YOU purchased one of these telescopes and filmed Saturn?

What if they hadn’t claimed to see multiple distinct belts?
Why not try that honestly?
In a hypothetical reality where Saturn does not have easily seen distinct belts such that they couldn't see such belts, they wouldn't have reported it and would not have known the rotational period.
It would have no effect on Saturn being a planet with rings, nor would it have any effect on Earth being round and orbiting the sun.

The real question for you is why would they claim to have seen rings if they weren't there? There is no valid justification at all.

They just miraculously found that Saturn had multiple distinct belts
There is nothing miraculous about it.

You believe this makes their claims ‘consistent’ with what we see!!
No, I correctly understand that if your footage is not clear enough to tell if there are multiple belts or not, then that is consistent with the claim of multiple belts.
If you want to show an inconsistency you need to get something that is actually able to tell.

Likewise, if someone took a water sample and tested it with a high precision instrument and found lead to be at 1 ppm, and you then follow up with a shitty instrument which can only read down to 0.1 %, and you say you can't detect lead, that is still consistent with their claims, because you can't tell if it is there at that level or not.

What you don’t get here, is where it goes from reality into pure fiction.
I do understand where, basically from the point you start talking.

If we never see multiple distinct belts, we know it’s fictional.
No, you don't.
Your wilful ignorance does not make something fiction.

And know why they made it up, to say Saturn is a slowly rotating ‘planet’ like the ball Earth is!
No, they didn't.
It was known to be a rotating planet before then. They just didn't know the rotational period.
See, this is where you enter the realm of pure fiction.

You are desperate for it to be fake, so you concoct a crazy delusional story to pretend it is fake and pretend there is a reason.
But if anyone honestly examines that so called reason, it is trivial to see it is delusional BS.

While the only real evidence
Again, try it honestly.
The only evidence lying scum like you will accept.

The rotation would’ve been studied for sure, but wasn’t?
Appealing to your wilful ignorance again are you?
You sure love doing that.

Why don't you stop with all that BS, and try justifying your claims?

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