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Messages - fliggs

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541
Flat Earth General / Re: Questions please
« on: August 08, 2016, 10:55:28 PM »
You'll be waiting forever I'm afraid. When backed into a corner, flat Earthers will resort to ad hominem. Failing this, they will simply abandon the thread and slink off. I have noticed the same phenomenon when arguing with deeply religious people. The difference between fundamentalist fanatics and flat earth fanatics is flat earthers claim to be scientists, with proofs and reasoning. I have never heard a religious person claim they have physical proof of God.

This is what fascinates me about flat earth. It is a marathon of denial.

Perhaps the issue is that a complete proof of God who definitionally exists outside of our universe is inherently impossible. You will no doubt have encountered a large number of very religious people who are also superb scientists. After all isnt it true that the absence of proof is not the proof of absence?

Just a thought.

542
Worth noting that the US govt does not have the right to allow or disallow a flight to the moon. It has rights to permit or not a LAUNCH from its land, but not anywhere else.

543
Does this clown literally think the Saturn V could not lift off despite literally watching it do so 8 or 9 times?

I think the 'challenge' for him should be a psychiatric one.

544
Isnt there the rather obvious problem that rockets DO already work in a vacuum as part of launching satellites, not to mention other spacecraft?

Given that rocket engines are nothing more complex than expelling something out of one end and acheive force in the opposite direction, how can this even be disputed? After all, do we not already believe in jet engines or are they too, a hoax? It might be simplistic, but a rocket is little different from a jet engine in concept - expelling a gas to get thrust.

Is this clown actually serious????

545
Well well, this topic turned into exactly the kind of topic I expected. There are only one or two genuine global Earthers even attempting to look into what I'm saying. the rest are doing their utmost to make sure that anyone looking in at denpressure will be put off enough if my theory is ridicules en-masse.

Let me explain something to those looking in and to those who have some grasp on what I've been talking about.
Denpressure is alive and well. It's a reality that requires constant explaining in many different contexts using many different analogies just to scratch the surface.
Why?
Because the absolute saturation of mainstream supposed scientific nonsense on Earth and it's supposed ways of operation, have been fine tuned in all magical ways and indoctrinated into the minds of everyone, that it's extremely difficult for them to deviate from that path.

None of you people (you know who you are) have destroyed any of what I've been talking about. Most of you do not even understand the simplest part, whether that's deliberate or it's just too logical for you; I don't really know.

Once the psychologists started to enter into the topic, I knew what and where this topic was going.


Anyone that's still interested in painstakingly trying to understand it, feel free to come at me and I'll continue to try to get to a place where some semblance of my theory can be pitched with reality or even the potential of it, because let's face it, the mainstream science world of theory has some monumental magical forces at hand, don't they?

it might help your cause if you provided some actual math to back up your theory or some detailed hypotheses that can be tested. All you give are a few broad ideas and then criticise every attempt to test them when they inevitably fail.

you know ZIP about the scientific method. And I still asked you how many elements there were and if you even believe in the subatomic structure.

Care to share with us your 'insights' on such matters?

546
I'm with Bill Nye on this one. You want to think that you are formulating an alternative theory to that of gravity byt the basic failing is that you need to denounce and ignore 2500 years of science to do so. in 500BC this theory could gain some credence because we couldnt measure pressure, weigh things very accurately nor ddid we have much of a model of the physical universe. But today, you are asking that we throw literally everything we know and can prove away simply to entertain this rubbish idea of yours?  In your febrile mind, there are no planets, no galaxies, no space travel, no vacuum and every single bit of evidence that contradicts you is garbage or faked. There are cave men that would mock your 'thinking' here.  your theory does not match any of our real-world experiences and is so easily debunked that it is childs-play.

Your understanding of molecules and rejection of the atomic structure leads me to ask: how many elements do you think exists? My guess is four - fire, air, water and air.

I am a bible-believing, active Christian and former missionary and youth pastor. You are an embarrassment to all of us who call Christ our Saviour. You are deeply and sadly deluded.
Prove to me "physically" just one thing that you know to be true in what you have just said in this post and explain why.

There are planets. We can see them and in fact have even been to Mars via rover. We know a great deal about them and can bee seen through telescopes.  And then there is the rest of the universe.

And perfect vaccum likely does not exist in large volumes because even in deep space there may be a molecule of something (most likely hydrogen) in a  cubic metre. BUT good vacuums  are more than capable of destroying your denpressure idea by creating near enough to zero atmosphere.

and then there is also the entire rest of the body of physical science which breaks your concept into pieces.

547
Fliggs is being a little rude, but there is some truth in what he says. Suppose someone has to say it, plus people have been feeding heiwa here for years and won't stop. Could you get mad at a fly that keeps going back to the same piece of meat that never goes away??

As for this argument about braking with wind resistance. I can promise you wind will stop you, other wise airplanes would need little fuel to fly(well they wouldn't be able to fly anyways, but that is a different story). I have went 257 mph on two wheels at the Texas Mile...i can promise you the air will stop you lol.

Even if there was an exact line between atmosphere and space (which there isn't) who cares? Ever skip a rock?? Just skip some times slow your approach then down ya go. This is basically what they do anyways.

Some of the people here just make me shake my head

I don't think I am being rude at all. In fact, I went out of my way to not be rude. But the facts are still unpalatable and there is no way to tell someone unwilling that they suffer from a serious and high-level mental illness that isnt deeply confronting. They probably already know they are poorly educated and have a low intelligence as more than a few school reports would have said just as much.

The actual foundational truth that these self-appointed (and deluded) need to become aware of is that they are deeply and seriously mentally ill. Once that permeates their minds, there is help that can improve their lives.

I am not rude, but I am not subtle either. They are all suffering serious mental illness(es).

548
You people think you've destroyed denpressure by doing what you've just done?
I knew this was going to happen from the off. I was just waiting whilst some of you cast the line and started to gain tension before reeling in.

You're not getting away with it that easily and I don't give a toss how much you try to pressurise and dig en-masse.

If some of you actually took the time to understand denpressure you'll know that some of the experiments are not going to be conclusive, yet you are using them as just that.

Septic if you were a man of science as you claim to be, you would either
1) Be able to coherently describe why these experiments could be in any way inconclusive
2) admit the denpressure theory has serious flaws

Since you have failed to act like a seeker of absolute truth, you have proven yourself to be in denial. You shut your eyes and ears to the truth. That's fine. You have the right to live that way. But if you dare tell me or anybody else that denpressure answers more questions about the universe than gravity, know that I will be there to link the poor sap to this very thread where you were proven wrong.

There is a good reason we have a theory of gravity. It works. It explains our physical universe fairly well although Dark Matter is a problem. But in the environment in which we operate, it works very well. We might not understand what causes gravity, but we have a very good model of how it operates including detailed mathematical models to describe it. Denpressure fails in every single aspect and is not even consistent in itself. It doesnt even rise to the level of bad science. It is not even bad pseudo-science. It is just sheer and utter nonsense from beginning to end.

549
Flat Earth General / Re: Why are stars all about the same size?
« on: August 06, 2016, 03:51:04 PM »
I could get a three old to explain this phenomenon correctly. Play School (australian preschoolers TV show) explains it.

550
I'm with Bill Nye on this one.
8) 8) 8) thanks friend.

I'm new here and while I am experienced with conspiracy theorists in general, the ones I find here are gobsmackingly idiotic. Whilst not a fully qualified psychologist, I am published in the field, but these people leave me gasping at their sheer inability to reason and the degree of paranoia is frankly, scary. I struggle to imagine have most of these people could function in the real world with such massive failings in reason, logic and interpersonal skills. I suspect that most in fact, do not.

551
Flat Earth General / Re: What really causes thunder?
« on: August 06, 2016, 03:27:44 PM »
Good grief... How can ANYONE be so incredible dumb as to not understand what causes thunder? I know a lot of people on here are really ignorant of so many things, but a 5yo could answer this question.
We know lightning causes it, but how is the question.

Nah... We actually have people here questioning if there is even a link between lightning and thunder.

552
Flat Earth General / Re: What really causes thunder?
« on: August 06, 2016, 02:56:41 PM »
Good grief... How can ANYONE be so incredible dumb as to not understand what causes thunder? I know a lot of people on here are really ignorant of so many things, but a 5yo could answer this question.

553

I guess you could control for the airless in other ways. I think coating it with silicone sealant might work too.

Okay I think I've got the perfect object to weigh in this experiment. A condom. Basically a balloon but a hell of a lot more durable. Fill it half with water half air. Hang it on the tied side down. That way you can see if you have a leak pretty easy.

This is out of a vacuum right?? The condom would never make it in one. I have broken Kevlar and many other forms of plastic and woven fibers during decompression. The poor latex would never make it in even 50 torr...

Condoms...poor choice of birth control in a vacuum.

Drats. Well there goes my plan to flash the other astronauts if I ever go on a space walk.

What about an empty soda bottle? Glass or plastic. Would one of those be tough enough?

Glass can be made strong enough, though a glass soda bottle would not make it. Plastic, no the cap is the weak link (proven through drunken experiment lol).

You have a result in your head...what was the premise of filling the condom with water? I am a little lost of what you were wanting to test here. If I can get it in my head, maybe we can figure out a reasonable test.

I also have an extra pump and small 12 gallon vacuum i can donate for a while if you want to attempt your own tests. If you have an extra super accurate scale I surely would not be opposed to a temporary trade of such.

I will also warn, alcohol and experiments in a vacuum go hand in hand and never get boring lol. Actually most of the machinery I have can do that, but most require too much dexterity or become a safety hazard when impaired. I worry about myself when the big vacuum that is about to be operational, opens a whole new world stupid lol

I caught the tail end of a back and forth on this thread about weighing objects in a vacuum. I probably should have read it a little better. The gist of it is, I think, weighing something in a vacuum is the best way to test denpressure except that sceppy doesn't believe scales are reliable in a vacuum. Someone proposed balancing two objects in a vacuum, one of them cork and the other metal. My issue with that is that air makes up part of the weight of cork and in a vacuum that air is drawn out which would skew the results.  Which is where the condom comes in because it's air tight except for possibly where the knot at the opening would be. Which is why I suggested filling it partway with water as a way of detecting any possible leak.

But that's a dead end since, as you've pointed out it'll explode in a vacuum.

Really I'm just trying to figure out a way to measure weight in a vacuum in a way that scepti won't object to. But since his objections to just sticking a kitchen scale in a vacuum chamber don't make any damn sense it's proving to be a bit of a challenge.

Isnt the real problem that he objects to anything and everything that might in any way disprove his nonsense? This is the fundamental problem with his approach to experimentation - that he rejects any outcome not to his liking and then fabricates a ludicrous reason for it.

554
I'm with Bill Nye on this one. You want to think that you are formulating an alternative theory to that of gravity byt the basic failing is that you need to denounce and ignore 2500 years of science to do so. in 500BC this theory could gain some credence because we couldnt measure pressure, weigh things very accurately nor ddid we have much of a model of the physical universe. But today, you are asking that we throw literally everything we know and can prove away simply to entertain this rubbish idea of yours?  In your febrile mind, there are no planets, no galaxies, no space travel, no vacuum and every single bit of evidence that contradicts you is garbage or faked. There are cave men that would mock your 'thinking' here.  your theory does not match any of our real-world experiences and is so easily debunked that it is childs-play.

Your understanding of molecules and rejection of the atomic structure leads me to ask: how many elements do you think exists? My guess is four - fire, air, water and air.

I am a bible-believing, active Christian and former missionary and youth pastor. You are an embarrassment to all of us who call Christ our Saviour. You are deeply and sadly deluded.

555
I tried to stick with this thread as long as I could, but enough is enough. if the dateline was AD1400 this would still be a silly thread but in AD 2016 it is an exercise in idiocy and EASILY debunked. You cannot simply say that a vacuum does not exist and we cannot create simply because it would debunk this theory.  Nor can you say that the bulk of science is not verifiable and repeatable - because it is.

I know some of you are trying to be nice to this guy, but it is a fools errand. nothing you can say or do will ever make any dent because quite simply, he lacks the intellectual ability, the education or frankly, the mental stability to comprehend anything he does not understand. IN his mind, delusion is fact, because he can think it. Imagination is reality and nobody else can possibly understand his higher plane of thinking.

In professional terms, it is called Schizophrenia matched with a really poor education and an even poorer basic intellect.

harsh, but true.

Try talking about subatomic particles and the like. He cannot even understand something so basic that it can be debunked by a child, a pre-schooler, while asleep.
The only shock with this post is the time it's took to come. I was waiting for the new entry (you) pretender to come in with a nice attempt at ridicule. It's part and parcel of how you people work.

I'll continue to deal with you people how I see fit.  ;D

No scepti, you are the problem. ANY conclusion or experiment that debunks your position you instantly denounce using any of your standard methods. Quite simply, you are UNTEACHABLE and therefor the antithesis of a scientist. A true scientist learns more from failed experiments that successful ones. You on the other hand learn nothing from any experiment whatsoever.

Your claim that you cannot have a vacuum or even a partial vaccuum is beyond ludicrous if only because of the existence of... VACUUM cleaners. If denpressure had anything accurate about it, its predictions would be consistent and repeatable. So far, not a single aspect of denpressure is provable or repeatable. IN fact, every element of it is easily disproven. The mere existence of difference airpressures as altitude exists debunks it primary claim. And as for the non-existence of gravity... doesnt denpressure fail in every single regard in that matter?  What exactly causes the orbits of the planets in our solar system or the structure of galaxies or anything else in the entire universe?

And this might sound like prying, but would you tell us how much education you have particularly in maths and science - assuming any?

556
I tried to stick with this thread as long as I could, but enough is enough. if the dateline was AD1400 this would still be a silly thread but in AD 2016 it is an exercise in idiocy and EASILY debunked. You cannot simply say that a vacuum does not exist and we cannot create simply because it would debunk this theory.  Nor can you say that the bulk of science is not verifiable and repeatable - because it is.

I know some of you are trying to be nice to this guy, but it is a fools errand. nothing you can say or do will ever make any dent because quite simply, he lacks the intellectual ability, the education or frankly, the mental stability to comprehend anything he does not understand. IN his mind, delusion is fact, because he can think it. Imagination is reality and nobody else can possibly understand his higher plane of thinking.

In professional terms, it is called Schizophrenia matched with a really poor education and an even poorer basic intellect.

harsh, but true.

Try talking about subatomic particles and the like. He cannot even understand something so basic that it can be debunked by a child, a pre-schooler, while asleep.

557
It is rather obvious that the problem with the Flat-earthers and those that dont believe in space-travel, A-bombs or the like is quite easy to diagnose. It is called mental illness. Unfortunately, this mental illness is also often associated with an abominable level of education and a sub-par intellect. I am not trying to be rude, but this does actually explain most of what they say. Paranoid schizophrenia with some narcissistic personality disorder thrown in for good measure just to complete the mix.

The symptoms are all rather obvious. Paranoid schizophrenics believe everyone is against them. They also either hear voices or believe they have access to 'higher knowledge' or 'mystical secrets'. Sound familiar? There is no ability whatsover to debate because the basis of good debate is a belief in logic and at least the basics of the scientific method. Naturally, like all good schizos, they have no concept of logic. You will find a good number of schizophenic super geniuses who despite their illness are still able to accept by virtue of their intelligence, the basis of science and the world around us. But not so the crazies you find here. They combine their pitiful intellects and inferiority complexes with a solid does of sever mental illness and voila... a flat-earther is born.

So yes, the real answer is that you can never convince a crazy person of anything because... they are crazy.

The vast majority of conspiracy theorists are variations on this diagnosis. The Flat-earthers are the bottom of the barrel though. They believe only that which fits into their psychosis - even if it is a tortured fit. The true irony - and sadness - is that they call themselves Truth-seekers when in fact they seek nothing at all other than to be considered by other to be the one thing they are not - intelligent, educated and SANE.

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