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181
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The conspiracy IS relevant
« on: November 06, 2007, 09:59:00 AM »
your experiments have a serious flaw: you have misjuged the size of the earth badly.

if you did the same experiments with 20 or 30 mile ranges, you would see curved results.
I believe it is you that has misjudged the size of the Earth.  6 miles = 24foot drop.  That should be quite noticeable.

I took the smaller of the two numbers for this exercise.

These values are in miles.

a^2 + b^2 = c^2

3950^2 + 6^2 = (3950 + x)^2

15602536 = (3950 +x)^2

SQRT 15602536 = 3950 + x

3950.00455696 = 3950 + x

0.00455696 = x

---

0.00455696 mi = 8.63 ft (approx)

(NOTE: Using 3963 mi as the radius brings the total to 8.60 ft)

---

Assuming my math is right, you are off my about 16 feet, TheEngineer.

182
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: To all you Flat earth believers...
« on: November 06, 2007, 08:26:20 AM »
If someone makes a direct attack on a group of people as a whole, I am going to say something.

The bottom line is that leaving when someone decides this site isn't worth their time is not a "point scored" for FE.

Just because people here want to spend their free time debating FE/RE doesn't mean everyone will.  And it's fine if that's what you want to do.  It's your choice.  But don't call someone down for making another choice.  It isn't a deficient in their character to walk away from a "waste of their time."

183
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: To all you Flat earth believers...
« on: November 06, 2007, 08:03:27 AM »
RE'ers always give up so easy...
That is a really, really conceited thing to say.

I know it must be a trip, thinking (rightly or wrongly) that you know the truth while millions are fooled into believing a lie.  But that's no reason to be an ass about it when someone decides it isn't worth their time to argue.  :/

Seriously, a lot of us "RE'ers" have more important things to worry about than the shape of the world.  AIDS research and outreach/prevention.  Cancer.  Starvation and child labor in third-world countries.  Fighting the stigma of Mental Illness.  Working on ways to combat homelessness.  Saving endangered species from extinction.

Do you realize that 14,000 people are infected with AIDS every day?  Or that ONE IN FOUR people in the US suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year?  Or that, every 4 seconds, someone in the world dies of hunger

Your little forum and its "problems" aren't part of the big picture.  If we found out tomorrow that the world was flat, what would change?  Would we find a cure for cancer?  Or maybe bring back extinct animals?  Or end world hunger?  I don't think so.  Do you?

I come here once in a while on my free time to watch talented debaters (you HAVE to have some talent to defend a conspiracy theory like this one; it's extremely complex).  But I volunteer and work helping people in my community.  Maybe it isn't saving the world, but that's what I can do.  I don't come here and call you down for "wasting" your time which could be better spent.  It's your choice.

In the end, this is what my rant comes down to:

Get off your god damned high horse.
Not everyone wants to spend all their time debating this.

That is all.
That is so irrelevant

To the discussion at hand?  Perhaps.  To the quote I listed?  Definitely not.

184
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Just an idea...
« on: November 06, 2007, 08:00:51 AM »
I have a better idea.  Since there are more of your kind, why don't you get your RE buddies to pitch in some money and send me to space?

1) One person's "conversion" to a RE frame of mind will not suffice.  Every one of "your kind" (FE Conspirator-believers) will think you had been "co-opted."  Even if 90% of you were sent into space, the remaining 10% could claim massive conspiratorial cover-up.  Thus, we would have to send every single member into outer space.

2) Let's say that it costs \$1,000,000 USD to send one person into space.  And let's say there are 1000 people in your society around the globe to convince.  That comes to \$1,000,000,000.  One billion dollars.  No one on earth cares enough about all of your ideas to spend that sort of money.  You guys are pretty harmless.

3) And let's say that a small portion of you believed, even with proof, that there was STILL a conspiracy.  That what they saw from the space shuttle was an elaborate hoax to change their minds.  Well, then Mr. Billionaire just wasted some good money on all of you.

THIS is why no one in their right mind will ever send you to space.

185
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: RE floating oceans.
« on: November 05, 2007, 03:39:39 AM »
I've been following this thread for... oh, about a week now.  And it's kind of funny.  While some of you are obviously enjoying yourselves in this big joke (Smarticus for one), some of your reactions indicate you're taking this SO seriously...!

I mean, a good pseudo-debate is kind of interesting, especially when some people don't quite get that it's not real.

186
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The FE sun is impossible
« on: November 05, 2007, 03:04:09 AM »
yeah, right. i recall a famous experiment with lasers and mirrors that was intended to test the existence of aether. it failed miserably, much to the dismay of the scientists.

so if i shined a spotlight upward, someone a hundred miles could look up and see it? if aether existed, that would happen.

but it doesn't, because aether is a MYTH!

That experiment (which you apparently know nothing about) is easily explained when one reads the work of Lorenz.  Also, aether follows directly from Einsteins relativity, as well as other scientificly accepted theories.

...Like the "theory" that the earth is round?  That's scientifically accepted, whether or not FE'ers want to believe so.

I don't get why you hold so tightly to certain "scientific proofs" while completely disregarding the ones that don't fit in with a FE.

...Oh wait, it just clicked.

Quote
I don't get why you hold so tightly to certain "scientific proofs" while completely disregarding the ones that don't fit in with a FE.

Lol.

187
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The Ice Wall and Earths End
« on: November 05, 2007, 02:20:03 AM »
So... WHY was there no answer provided to Soldier?

Seriously, I can understand Smarticus being an asshat, but I thought that TheEngineer would have at least offered some sort of explanation...

188
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: The conspiracy WOULD be leaked
« on: November 05, 2007, 02:09:51 AM »
Anyway, please give a reason why people such as NASA wants to keep Earth being flat a secret BEFORE you say that it is a conspiracy.
Easy.  If the Earth is round the Bible cannot possibly be true.  Therefore NASA is trying to discredit the Bible (and of course our lord and saviour Jesus Christ in the process), and coming up with these bogus pictures of a round Earth to try to support their position.  It's all about controlling our minds and beliefs.

The money angle is absurd (although they surely are making a pretty penny, which probably makes it easier to keep the conspirators quiet).

Wasn't there a poll or something done to show that many FE'ers don't believe in the bible?

189
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: To all you Flat earth believers...
« on: November 05, 2007, 01:57:08 AM »
RE'ers always give up so easy...
That is a really, really conceited thing to say.

I know it must be a trip, thinking (rightly or wrongly) that you know the truth while millions are fooled into believing a lie.  But that's no reason to be an ass about it when someone decides it isn't worth their time to argue.  :/

Seriously, a lot of us "RE'ers" have more important things to worry about than the shape of the world.  AIDS research and outreach/prevention.  Cancer.  Starvation and child labor in third-world countries.  Fighting the stigma of Mental Illness.  Working on ways to combat homelessness.  Saving endangered species from extinction.

Do you realize that 14,000 people are infected with AIDS every day?  Or that ONE IN FOUR people in the US suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year?  Or that, every 4 seconds, someone in the world dies of hunger

Your little forum and its "problems" aren't part of the big picture.  If we found out tomorrow that the world was flat, what would change?  Would we find a cure for cancer?  Or maybe bring back extinct animals?  Or end world hunger?  I don't think so.  Do you?

I come here once in a while on my free time to watch talented debaters (you HAVE to have some talent to defend a conspiracy theory like this one; it's extremely complex).  But I volunteer and work helping people in my community.  Maybe it isn't saving the world, but that's what I can do.  I don't come here and call you down for "wasting" your time which could be better spent.  It's your choice.

In the end, this is what my rant comes down to:

Get off your god damned high horse.
Not everyone wants to spend all their time debating this.

That is all.

190
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 05, 2007, 01:27:22 AM »
Questions I still want an answer for:

Okay, I have another question that I never saw an answer to:

Quote from: FE FAQ
Q: "If the Earth was indeed a flat disc, wouldn't the whole planet crunch up into itself and eventually transform into a ball?"

A1: If the Earth generated a gravitational field, yes, it would eventually happen, after a billion years maybe. FE assumes that the Earth does not generate a gravitational field.  What we know as 'gravity' is provided by the acceleration of the earth.

A2: There is a counter-mass which pulls the Earth back into a disc shape.

Q: "Why does gravity vary with altitude?"

A: The moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull.

Q:  Follow-up to previous question:  How is it that the Earth does not have a gravitational pull, but stars and the moon do?

A:  This argument is a non sequitur.  You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?"  Snakes are not dogs or cats.  The Earth is not a star or the moon.  It doesn't follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.

So, is there such a thing as gravity or not?  Can't have it both ways.  If so, what causes that gravity?  Is it the mass of the stars and moon?  Is it what they're made of?  Please don't tell me it's related to DEF again.    This isn't about "moon and stars having gravity VS. earth having gravity," BTW, which is what is addressed in the FAQ.

I now have a clearer understanding of WHAT the DEF is supposed to be, but still do not understand how that relates to the bold sections above.  Is it everywhere?  Is it just in a "bubble" of sorts around the FE solar system (I don't know what else to call it)?  If it's a bubble, what holds it in place?  If it's everywhere, why doesn't it push down on the atmosphere?
The DEF is a direct consequence of the interaction of Dark Energy and the magnetic field of the Earth.  Dark Energy is responsible for the acceleration of the visible celestial bodies.

Now, I understand having to change the model of an FE universe with the times and undebatable scientific fact.  (Boy, did THAT sound funny, on account of the nature of what we're discussing.  XD)  And I understand that all of what you're hypothesizing is impossible to prove, if I grant you that we "have never sent anything to space."  However, based on what you assume to be rock-solid scientific fact, I'd like ideas on the questions above.  Not FACTS, as it would be impossible to determine (to your satisfaction) whether they are, in actuality, facts.  Just your hypotheses.

I know it's easier to ignore questions which are difficult or uncomfortable to answer, but for your theory to have any credibility, you can't just answer the questions you like and forget the ones you don't.  Please provide some speculation.

PS, I will not be online again for a few days, so feel free to take a while thinking if it's required.  But don't forget to answer, please.

191
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 03:41:46 PM »
So, is there such a thing as gravity or not?
Not as a force.  Only as a concept.

Okay... So, are you saying that, in the FE, the stars and moon hold no gravitational properties?

Quote from: FE FAQ

Q: "Why does gravity vary with altitude?"

A: The moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull.

Is the FAQ incorrect?  I thought it was the compendium of theories pertaining to the FE.

If the FAQ is, in fact, correct, please answer: What makes the stars and moon have that gravitational pull?

192
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 03:36:31 PM »

Now the DEF is a concept that is not well understood, but it is obvious it must work, otherwise we would all suffocate.

...Unless the earth is not flat, in which case it is moot.

We at least have some idea of how gravity works (bodies attracting bodies, earth being by far the larger of the two).  How does this DEF work?  What holds it in place?  Is it everywhere?  Is the universe endless?  How "thick" is it?  Why doesn't it "push down" on the atmosphere we have here on earth and push it off the edge (as we accelerate upward)?

I now have a clearer understanding of WHAT the DEF is supposed to be, but still do not understand how that relates to the bold sections above.  Is it everywhere?  Is it just in a "bubble" of sorts around the FE solar system (I don't know what else to call it)?  If it's a bubble, what holds it in place?  If it's everywhere, why doesn't it push down on the atmosphere?

193
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 03:24:47 PM »
Okay, I have another question that I never saw an answer to:

Quote from: FE FAQ
Q: "If the Earth was indeed a flat disc, wouldn't the whole planet crunch up into itself and eventually transform into a ball?"

A1: If the Earth generated a gravitational field, yes, it would eventually happen, after a billion years maybe. FE assumes that the Earth does not generate a gravitational field.  What we know as 'gravity' is provided by the acceleration of the earth.

A2: There is a counter-mass which pulls the Earth back into a disc shape.

Q: "Why does gravity vary with altitude?"

A: The moon and stars have a slight gravitational pull.

Q:  Follow-up to previous question:  How is it that the Earth does not have a gravitational pull, but stars and the moon do?

A:  This argument is a non sequitur.  You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?"  Snakes are not dogs or cats.  The Earth is not a star or the moon.  It doesn't follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.

So, is there such a thing as gravity or not?  Can't have it both ways.  If so, what causes that gravity?  Is it the mass of the stars and moon?  Is it what they're made of?  Please don't tell me it's related to DEF again.    This isn't about "moon and stars having gravity VS. earth having gravity," BTW, which is what is addressed in the FAQ.

194
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Finally!!!!
« on: November 03, 2007, 03:05:57 PM »
A website that groups stupid people who can't accept reality into one place.

Hence why you're here.

...And you?

And yes, I know that includes me, too.

195
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: To all you Flat earth believers...
« on: November 03, 2007, 03:01:05 PM »
Quote
Am I the only one to find this statement ironic, given that his name is "Roundearther4life"?  :3

What do you find ironic about that? The earth being round is a scientific fact, meaning it is PROVEN that the earth is round.
The earth being round isnt a theory anymore as much as you'd like to think it is, my friend.

Also on a side note :
You are all clinging to a discredited idea. Please pull your heads out of your asses we dont live in the 1600's anymore.

Lol, I don't believe the earth is flat.

Here, I'll spell it out for you:

1) You come to a website created for the purpose of debating the shape of the earth,

2) You say, on that website, that you are "an open minded person" who "likes to find out whats true or untrue even if it goes against every belief I have"

3) Yet, your name is "Roundearther4life," showing that no matter what evidence is displayed, you are sticking to your beliefs "4 life".

THAT, my friend, is where the irony is.

196
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 02:54:22 PM »

Now the DEF is a concept that is not well understood, but it is obvious it must work, otherwise we would all suffocate.

...Unless the earth is not flat, in which case it is moot.

We at least have some idea of how gravity works (bodies attracting bodies, earth being by far the larger of the two).  How does this DEF work?  What holds it in place?  Is it everywhere?  Is the universe endless?  How "thick" is it?  Why doesn't it "push down" on the atmosphere we have here on earth and push it off the edge (as we accelerate upward)?

197
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 02:49:51 PM »
How did that not make sense?
"Taking one out of the RE'ers book" implies that 1) RE'ers are full of it, and 2) so is your theory.

Basically, his comment implies he's pulling something out of his ass in absence of an explanation.  Which isn't good enough.  I'd like a real answer.  I'm perplexed at how this model is supposed to work.  FE'ers have had centuries to hypothesize.  Please don't tell me you still have no ideas.

198
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: where is the edge?
« on: November 03, 2007, 02:46:32 PM »

The Bible is not where the majority of FEers get the idea from.  Most FE believers are athiests.

Seriously?  Really?  Truly?

The point of the creation of the universe as we know it is...?  I thought all this FE stuff was based on Intelligent Design and such...

199
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 02:43:00 PM »
Truly, this is the best you can come up with?  TheEngineer, I am disappointed.
What's wrong with it?

At least come up with SOME theory, something you can say which would make sense.  Anything.  FE is supposed to be a credible theory, right?  "Taking one out of the RE'ers book" implies that 1) RE'ers are full of it, and 2) so is your theory.

200
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: To all you Flat earth believers...
« on: November 03, 2007, 02:40:57 PM »

I'm an open minded person, I like to find out whats true or untrue even if it goes against every belief I have, but that's YOUR problem.

Am I the only one to find this statement ironic, given that his name is "Roundearther4life"?  :3

201
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 02:38:11 PM »
1)  The ice wall is a mountain range covered in ice and snow.
2)  The reason the atmosphere stays on the earth is still in contention.  I think I will take a page from the RE play book and just make up a force to explain an observation:  The atmosphere stays on the earth due to the Dark Energy Field.

Truly, this is the best you can come up with?  TheEngineer, I am disappointed.  As much as I have disbelieved all your theories, at least most of the time they make a sort of logical sense if you assume the world is, in fact, flat...

Oh, and FYI, I have already stated that I read the FAQs.  I know what the Ice Wall is proposed to be.

202
##### Flat Earth Debate / Some Unanswered Questions...
« on: November 03, 2007, 01:27:13 PM »
Hello,

Though I am new here, I have been reading this site for about a year on and off.  Frankly, it astounds me that people actually believe in a flat earth in this day and age.  But that is aside the point.  I just wanted you guys to know my stance before getting to my question.

Please don't ask me to read the FAQ, as I have gone over it numerous times.  And if you are going to cite "Earth: Not a Globe," please tell me where specifically you are pulling information from.  I have the digital copy to go on, and can't find a needle in a haystack.

Now, I understand that you believe in the Ice Wall.  And it's obvious that there is air in our atmosphere, else how would we breathe?  Is it your stance that the atmosphere only extends so high?  Such as 150 miles or something?  If so, what keeps the air from "falling off" the world?  It can't be the ice wall, can it?  If it were, the ice wall would be very visible, wouldn't it?

Or is it your stance that there is no such thing as the vacuum of space?  In this case, how do you explain the thinning of the air as one travels to greater altitudes?  It can't be that the acceleration of the earth is "catching" the air and making it denser.

I will leave my queries at that, since all other questions I have have been asked and "answered" previously.  This one I have not found addressed anywhere and I am baffled when it comes to finding any way to make logical sense out of this.  (Well, as logical as anything else on this site...)

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