301

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Objectification of Women

« on: February 09, 2013, 08:33:38 PM »

The intuition struck at here is genuine, but in some ways trivial. All other things being equal, a more attractive person is more likely to earn your salvation than a less attractive person. This is even a defensible position.


However, all other things are rarely equal. Including distance.

302

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: How about a 'Flat Earth experiments' discussion board

« on: February 09, 2013, 08:28:38 PM »

Why?

303

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: How about a 'Flat Earth experiments' discussion board

« on: February 08, 2013, 09:16:37 PM »

I'm saying that FE'ers could post fake data in there without doing an experiment, and if 10 other people then perform the experiment and discover the results don't match, the incorrect data remains in the repository, untouchable and uncorrectable. Information in the repository should not be taken as fact. There's all sorts of un-FET related info in there that's just plain wrong - and provably so.

It's called an 'information repository', as opposed to a 'fact repository', for a reason. If you wish to challenge what is in there, open a thread in one of the other boards doing so. The repository is intended only as a useful place to post various, and often unrelated, pieces of information pertaining to FET, Zeteticism, the Flat Earth Society, ancient cosmology/thought, or the Conspiracy. Much of it is mutually exclusive or conflicting, so it is quite obviously not intended to be taken as a compendium of truth.

304

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Responsibility and TRUTH in Neozeteticism

« on: February 08, 2013, 09:04:30 PM »

What John has written is complex, and I found it difficult to follow at times, but frankly my reading was little more than cursory, and that may well be the cause of my confusion.


However, broadly I think I understand the point John is making, and that he is proposing a kind of 'ethics of belief'. This is in some ways an expansion on the famous Socratic/Platonic notion that 'the unexamined life is not worth living'. I believe John is trying to say that when we uncritically rely on established or received beliefs, they are not merely a crutch we use in place of thinking for ourselves, but increasingly a form of conceptual debt. In other words, our conceptual agency is limited by the degree to which we are reliant on received truths stacked upon received beliefs founded upon received frameworks.


Taking these accepted truths and received beliefs makes our lives easier, for the simple reason that we have to do very little work to attain them. However, as they become more complex and multi-layered, they increasingly bind the scope of our thought, as the questioning of one often leads t the questioning of a whole new set of beliefs and truths. To continue with John's debt-analogy, loans provide ease of life and new possibilities, but also constrain and limit our future agency to a great degree. Only work and the creation of value can break that cycle. The same is true of belief and thought, where critical thinking, personal exploration, and deep-understanding provide intellectual freedom.


No doubt many of you have observed how those who blindly buy into one set of beliefs often appear to become sucked into an ever deeper set of mutually dependent beliefs. Conversely, the people I know who are most willing to admit they are wrong or change their minds are those who are most critical, questioning, or sceptical.


To take this somewhat further, I think John is striking at the notion that a critical approach to self and world is an ethical good, and that to the extent that uncritical adoption of beliefs or belief-systems limits cognitive agency, it also limits one's capacity promote the intellectual good (agency being essential to any form of ethical life).


It may well be that I have interpreted rather than understood, and this was all a bit off the cuff, so I'm interested to hear what John thinks.

305

The Lounge / Re: Those Interested In Helping Proof Read, Concept Read, Edit, Etc

« on: February 08, 2013, 08:35:58 PM »

I am obviously interested, but I've also worked as an academic writing tutor, and I earn my keep by writing, so if you want I'm fairly sure I'd be of use.

306

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Bicycles

« on: February 07, 2013, 09:31:40 PM »

roadies

I secretly know what he/she means, but as someone who cycles a roadbike without lycra etc, I wanted to flesh out the hatred to see if it would hold up.

307

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Another post your desktop thread

« on: February 07, 2013, 09:30:11 PM »

That is cool.
Did you have to root the phone?

Nope. As it happens my phone is rooted, but all you need is a launcher from the Playstore (I use Nova Launcher), and UCCW (again from the Playstore). I used Desktop Visualiser for the Portal homescreen, which again is from the Playstore.


ROMs are cool, but launchers are a lot more flexible. If you like tinkering, my advice is to pick a ROM you like for the internal skin/menus etc, and then run a launcher on top of it.

308

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Issues with mods

« on: February 06, 2013, 08:08:09 PM »

Low content posting and trouble making are still against the rules, aren't they?  I would contend that trolls trying to make FET and/or the society look bad would constitute low content and/or trouble making.

And how often did you ban people for this offence during your time as moderator? As I recall (and I don't need to recall, as there is a log), not very often. That's fine - neither do I, because it's difficult to do. If it were that easy, we would do it all the time, but banning people just because we think they're not being serious is problematic for all sorts of obvious reasons.


But once again, this is not about poor-posting by troublemakers, be they RE'ers or FE'ers. It's about people taking from the forum and giving nothing back. It's about you claiming to want to help the forum and Society, but only doing so in a way that suits your own selfish agenda. This 'helping through critique' stuff is nothing more than a smokescreen. There are plenty of other ways to 'help' the forum and society, all of which are much more needed and would be much more appreciated.


If what you really want to do is help, then do so. But derailing threads with questions you know the answer to, or making yourself the centre of attention in threads started by newcomers, is not helpful. Help us to answer those questions. Help us to get newcomers interested in the debate and discussion we promote. Moderation is not the problem here. I just think you should know better. Think of how much enjoyment you've got out of debating the ideas presented by this community, and give something back.


I don't want to single out a particular member this way, because it's not really fair given my position. But we all have responsibilities. That's all I have to say on this issue, so I think I'll leave it at that.

309

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Another post your desktop thread

« on: February 06, 2013, 07:41:02 PM »

Seriously, these days the stuff you can do on Android with a good launcher is incredible. I suggest heading over to mycolorscreen.com and having a look at some of the designs people have put together. It's pretty cool. The launcher I use (Nova) is nice but a bit resource-intensive, but my understanding is that ADW (which is opensource) runs well on a much bigger range of hardware. So if the stuff above looks cool but you have an older or less-powerful Android ohone, don't assume it won't run. It's mostly just some simple widgets, very well designed.


The original homescreen looked like this





but I felt the wallpaper up top suited the icons better, as well as being a bit more tasteful. Sorry Samus. However, for yet more nerdy fun, I also got this one:





The Portal images are also set-up to be working shortcuts (I've picked apps that I think match the images somewhat). The number above the bar-code is the battery-level. And yes, that big number is the time, and I should go to bed.

310

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Bicycles

« on: February 06, 2013, 07:05:09 PM »

Hate road cyclists

As in, cyclists who cycle on the road?

311

Announcements / Re: Major new addition to the Flat Earth Library!

« on: February 06, 2013, 07:04:10 PM »

Not sure how I missed this thread, but all of the above is awesome.

312

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Issues with mods

« on: February 06, 2013, 07:02:30 PM »

So, why aren't the mods and FE'ers doing anything about them if they're making believers look bad?  Surely those people are at least as much (if not far more) of a problem than I am, yet you guys seem to have no problem criticizing me.

What are we supposed to do about them? And what exactly have we 'done' about you? For the most part they haven't broken the rules, and for the most part neither have you.


This thread is not about Flat Earth Theory versus Round Earth Theory. It's about the atmosphere of the upper boards, which are what bring people to this forum and make it a fun place to be. It's about members taking responsibility for what they take versus what they give back.


Like I said, markjo, your attempt to help us through critique may be well-intended, but the simple fact is that it's not helping. If helping the Society (or failing that, the forum) is really your goal, then the near-unanimous opinion of everyone here is that you need to find a new way to help.

313

The Lounge / Re: Leaving for a conference

« on: February 01, 2013, 09:01:27 PM »

I have returned from the conference. This thread can be locked now.

No.

314

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Issues with mods

« on: February 01, 2013, 08:55:58 PM »

I have repeatedly said that my goal is to try to help make FET a better theory by pointing out that the evidence doesn't support their model(s).  It's not my fault that FE'ers keep promoting the same flawed models.

Here's the thing, markjo. We're good for critics. Like, we have plenty of people willing to offer advice and criticism. We're totally sorted on that front. So it would be really awesome if you could pitch in and redirect your efforts to strengthening FET directly, instead of through critique. If you could do us a solid and adopt new tactics for the promotion of FET, I and (I assume) everyone else here would be very, very stoked.

It wasn't that long ago when people like Dinosaur Neil saw the fun in switching to the flat side, but somehow it has become more fun for them to stay on the round side. Maybe we should figure out why.

There is a lot in this. The problem is here ^ . I am increasingly of the view that the newbies are not the problem. Commit. The Earth is Flat, and you are Terra's disciples. Commit truly and utterly. Take up the mantle. Commit.

315

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Issues with mods

« on: January 30, 2013, 09:15:46 AM »

We cannot ban people because other people find them boring. That would be a bad thing, and in my opinion would be totally out of keeping with the site's ethos and values. I still feel uneasy about purgatory, and worry I may have opened something of a Pandora's box by doing so. Perhaps we can modify the rules in some way, but it cannot just be a means of filtering long-term RE'ers.


We have tried routinely banning proxies in the past. This was unpopular among certain members of the site. Almost everything is. We can try it again, but it's not as though this is something that has never been thought of before.


I cannot come to the forum as often as I would like. I try to get a bit of posting in here and there, but I can only get on so often. In my time here, what I have learned is that the upper boards are always best when there are plenty of people defending FET, be they newcomers or regulars. How we encourage that, or if we really can, is another matter.

316

Suggestions & Concerns / Re: The Verification Question

« on: January 22, 2013, 02:25:18 AM »

I don't know if someone has already changed this, but it was set to '2' when I went in.

317

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Nuclear Weapons Don't Exist

« on: January 19, 2013, 12:35:38 PM »

http://ancientnuclearwar.com/

Did you know that WWII was NOT the first nuclear war this planet has ever experienced?   
Ludicrous you say? It's not ludicrous when you explore the evidence.

318

The Lounge / Re: Wild West Lynching (Werewolf) - Players ONLY

« on: January 18, 2013, 07:07:26 PM »

Kill Saddam.

319

The Lounge / Re: Greeting everyone!

« on: January 17, 2013, 07:59:19 PM »

The girlternet is like usenet except for girls.

320

Flat Earth General / Re: Conspiration theories.

« on: January 17, 2013, 07:49:12 PM »

The conspirationary problems of cientists aside, this thread basically asserts that a conspiracy is not possible. Why not?

321

Flat Earth General / Re: The motto - IN VERITATE VICTORIA

« on: January 17, 2013, 07:45:53 PM »

All I'm saying is that theories that posit the rotundity of the Earth are Round Earth Theories, including HET. For an interesting discussion of this, listen to our most recent podcast:


http://theflatearthpodcast.podbean.com/2012/12/12/the-flat-earth-society-podcast-episode-4-with-guest-hollow-earth-expert-professor-darryl-jones/

322

Flat Earth General / Re: F.E.T. Catch-22

« on: January 17, 2013, 07:42:46 PM »

You overshot your reference a little, Saddam.  If you scroll up just a bit than you will see that the Ancient Babylonians had essentially the same classical elements (with the addition of wind) long before the Greeks.  In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Greeks based their classical elements on the Babylonian model.

Why does that matter?

Because FE'ers have a long history of blaming stuff on the Ancient Greeks that may or may not be their fault.

The point being made was that they believed in said elements whilst believing that the Earth was a sphere. Not that they were the first people to come up with the theory of 4/5 elements. Read the posts.

What does the number of elements that they believed in have to do with them thinking that the earth is round?

This thread markjo, this thread. The posts and ideas in it. Please.

323

The Lounge / Re: Greeting everyone!

« on: January 17, 2013, 07:09:06 PM »

Being 'Lord *whatever*' is so old and done. Even I'm not the first, and I've been here since 2006. I'm not sure if you're original or cool enough for this forum. Maybe you should lurk moar, post less, and try softer.


Oh, and, L.B.V. Port is for fakers.

324

The Lounge / Re: Post an image of yourself!

« on: January 17, 2013, 07:04:23 PM »

Your head is amazingly angular. Like it's made out of logic.


Also, the bottom of Hara's iPhone must be well-worn.

325

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Gun Control

« on: January 17, 2013, 06:53:35 PM »

Under such an interpretation of the amendment, his point holds. The motivations for granting a right do not affect a right so granted, even if others use that right despite having other motivations. It may be something that we should bear in mind when discussing that right, but the motivation cannot be arbitrarily applied in order to remove the right.

How exactly is that going to be enforced? Inspect people's homes?

We require documentation demonstrating safe-storage for handguns here. It's not that odd.


Then again, you can't have an abortion here. I am that rare European who acknowledges the significance of the American defence of and emphasis on rights, especially as expressed by the U.S. constitution. I have asked my friends if they would rather people had the right to bear arms and to have an abortion, or didn't have the right to bear arms or to have an abortion. It's a question that typically produces silence.


A lot of you will no-doubt say "I'm a European, and we can have abortions and don't have guns everywhere! False dichotomy!"


But take the long view. We are lucky enough to live in this Europe, at this time. But the fact is, our constitutions, institutions, and traditions have repeatedly been shown to be inadequate. Europe's most republican nation, France, is on its fifth republic, with a couple of empires in between. Most of western Europe was liberated in 1944-1945 by a constitutional democracy that has existed since 1776.


In short, it's easy to bash Americans. But whilst (in my opinion) they currently suck ass at political practices, they are much better at enshrining and acknowledging political rights. I always feel that Europe is one bad bureaucracy away from a good one.


It really hasn't been that long, folks.

326

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Another post your desktop thread

« on: January 17, 2013, 06:06:21 PM »

Also, I will check out F-Droid, thanks.

327

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Another post your desktop thread

« on: January 17, 2013, 06:05:20 PM »

I'd love to try Cyanogenmod, but I have the International SIII, and there's no stable CM10 for that yet, largely because the International variant comes with Samsung's own processor line that they are dicks about releasing info on. Unfortunately, Jelly Bean is significantly better than ICS, so CM9 just doesn't interest me. And although TouchWiz is lame, I do like some of Samsung's gesture-recognition software. Most of it is gimmicky, but some is great. Like when you have an SMS thread open, if you raise the phone to your ear, it dials that contact. Some cool swipey interfaces too. I'd lose it for CM10, but not for CM9.


Long story short, I've rooted my phone for kewl stuff, but I just don't want to deal with CM10 nightlies or pre-Jelly Bean lag etc.


Plus, honestly, although my phone is already rooted and I could do a custom ROM... Nova Launcher is the biz. You can set it so there is no text under icons, and so that each icon has its own swype gesture linked to another icon. For example, I have it set so that pressing Chrome opens Chrome, but swyping Chrome opens DuckDuckGo (via Orweb). Phone is press = phone and swype = dial*person*, contacts is press = contacts and swype = Facebook, app drawer is press = appdrawer and swype = GoogleNow. You can customise the dock, app drawer, how unread counts are displayed, have icons that are stock-Google, Nova, or whatever local skin you have - all with ease. It's a pretty awesome launcher.


When there's a CM10 available, I'll probably go for it so I can avoid some of Samsung's nonsense (though I will miss their gesture stuff). However, I think I'll still keep Nova Launcher - it's just so flexible.

328

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: what would it look like?

« on: January 16, 2013, 10:45:37 PM »

I'm just saying that you are choosing to ignore possibilities that avoid the apparent contradiction of the earth being an infinite plane and the sun appearing to travel below the horizon.  Believe it or not, some of those possibilities include the earth being flat.

I'm not choosing to ignore them. I acknowledge them to be possible. I keep saying this, so it is you who chooses to ignore what I have said.


However, I have no evidence for them. I am am no more ignoring RET than you are ignoring Triangle Earth Theory, or whatever.

329

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: What causes the tides?

« on: January 16, 2013, 10:40:46 PM »

I make no claims about the dimensions of the Moon. As light bends, its apparent dimesions are just that: apparent.


Also, in RET all celestial bodies have an influence upon the tides.

330

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Why are the other planets round?

« on: January 16, 2013, 10:20:41 PM »

My post is about as relevant as the whole "why is the earth unique?" argument.

No it isn't. The OP hints at that issue. He does not ask why Earth is often referred to as a 'blue marble' when it is actually a range of colours. Yours is as poor an argument as "if it's flat, how come there are mountains", and totally irrelevant to boot.


It's just not constructive or on-topic, markjo. Sorry.