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Messages - Vitalux

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: The photographic evidence paradox
« on: March 14, 2015, 08:02:29 AM »

         Even though I know the earth is round, it seems to me there may always be an impasse when it comes to photographic evidence.

Perhaps it is all a paradox of opposition between opposing sides.

The participants are so busy arguing their points against the opposition that they can't see the ridiculousness of the whole situation.

Both sides perhaps should think of unity, assuming that both theories have flaws and together search for common ground.

Otherwise, all this is just an exercise in stupidity


I don't think you can compare peyote with airplanes...

How do you know? Have you ever done peyote?

Missing the point on purpose isn't doing anything for your argument.

Oh I am sorry, I thought you were attempting to add something intelligent to this thread.  :-\


I don't think you can compare peyote with airplanes...

How do you know? Have you ever done peyote?

Out -of-body-experiences are more common than people think. Few people speak about that. That has a reason.

Yes, they are especially common for people on hallucinogenic drugs.


But most people fly airplanes to reach great heights and distance, and yet no one criticizes them for using a tool (airplane) to achieve this capability.

Millions of yogi (a.k.a Siddhas) throughout history have enjoyed out of body experiences without the aid of hallucinogenic drugs (a.k.a entheogens).

Further the The Monroe Institute, which is based in Faber, Virginia, United States has aided in teaching individuals how to have an out of body experience. The have had a success rate of more than 5000 people having this experience.

And yes, it is a fact that historically millions of people have also had spiritual experiences including out of body experiences with the aid of "hallucinogenic drugs"


Out -of-body-experiences are more common than people think. Few people speak about that. That has a reason.

Thank you

Once a human being has experienced OBE it is quite life changing.

It is amazing how millions of people around the world have experienced similar occurrences of OBE, yet it is something that mainstream media tends to avoid reporting.

One thing for sure, it sure changes the way we view reality, ourselves and all other people.

I see that inherently we are all one.  ;)


That which I know explains everything you've suggested, without needing to appeal to anything else. Why add more?

So what do you think your purpose in existence is ?  :)

Have you studied cases involving Near Death Experiences?
Yes: the vast array of contradictions between them, and distinct cultural bias, very much implies there's a psychological cause. The only thing worth a second glance is reports of people gaining information they couldn't otherwise have had, but generally it's incredibly hard to firmly say that they couldn't have known such information. Simple confirmation bias covers the rest.

Have you studied the various philosophies of Buddhist and Hinduism?
Not in detail: the big question is "Why assume it's true?"

Than you have boxed yourself into a corner my friend.
You are allowing your beliefs to interfere with your love of Truth.

You stand as a paradoxical statement of stagnated growth.
Choosing to stand in defense of your ignorance because it is an inconvenience to your solidified opinion.

The love of Truth has no boundaries and is open to considering all possibilities.

You and I are on two completely different frontiers my friend. :-\


That very much needs evidence, but the first query would be what exactly constitutes 'real', to you? Unless by 'you' you're referring to your body, rather than your consciousness (in which case, while I still disagree, it's clearer what you're saying). Otherwise, you seem to be using a rather impractical definition.

Have you studied cases involving Near Death Experiences?
Have you studied the various philosophies of Buddhist and Hinduism?

Have you studied some of the scientific literature of scientific study of reincarnation?
Dr Ian Stevenson for example studied over thirty thousand cases of children that appeared to have past life memories of existing in other body, places and times.

The person you are speaking with now, has also had out of body experiences. ;)

My reference to you understanding my awareness simply means that everyone experiences different degrees of awareness based on time and experience.

Imagine if you will  Plato - the allegory of the cave.
This best  illustrates how I view  the realm Earth. I've experienced being outside of the cave and returned.
Please view the video below.

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If this one's necessarily true, then an ultimate reality must suffer from the same issue.
Something has to be real for there to be grounding for existence, regardless of whether or not we experience it. If you hold this consideration, you need to grant an exception to it sooner or later: why not sooner?
You just seem to have rejected out of hand any explanation.

- ultimate reality has all the components of reality. Consciousness is that ultimate reality.

- Nothing has to be real for their to be a grounding for existence.  A Person is a fiction, an artificial entity.
Perhaps you might be aware of the distinction between a human being (man) and a person ( artificial entity).
Many children believe in Santa Clause, as well as a multitude of other fictional entities however they are not real ,yet have a grounding for existence. Even if that grounding is an illusion; a belief.

Consideration 2.

BiJane says
What we perceive is dependent on what information we take in. The terms you use only work when applied incredibly loosely. We don't 'imagine', we experience: whether or not those experiences are accurate is another question, but consensus says it is.
As for 'third party source' and 'controlled externally', you have nothing in support of either statement. You have the fact we experience by interpreting what happens: no more than that.

Go and get a hammer, and drop it on your foot. :o
 Then contemplate the question. What part of you is experiencing the pain , your foot, or the mind?

What would qualify as support for the things I am discussing. If I was to post the sources would you really take the time to consider and read the information. Even if you did, you may not yet possess the awareness to comprehend it all.

From my perspective, I am chatting to an illusion that thinks they are really real.
Additionally, from my perspective, I do not believe that I am actually real.  I am just in a continuous dream masquerading as a human being (an avatar), in a realm called Earth. Because I have been stripped of both my higher intellect, and memories outside of this realm, I am suffering from much of the same delusions as everyone else.

With a slight twist, I am aware that this reality is an illusion.


So back to the original purpose of this thread  :)

One serious flaw in the human mind is cognitive dissonance.
Which is a mental stress experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs and or ideas.

Most humans have either one outlook or another, evolution or religion. What if both systems are untrue, and falsely propagated.

Therefore once a young mind has been indoctrinated by a system to think and feel a certain way, it can pretty much be considered that the individual is compartmentalized and becomes a packaged parrot.
Interesting one of the traits of this system is that those that have been indoctrinated into this conformity serve as a kind of reality border control guard for others that might be inclined to sway from the State sanctioned rubber stamp approved reality.

The trick to overcoming this hurdle is to become aware of not falling into the pitfalls of beliefs.
Beliefs have absolutely nothing to do with truth.
Beliefs are just the minds illusions.

One of the tricks that has happened to the human race is we are played against each other like fools.
We spend so much time attacking those who do not think as we do, that we accomplish nothing.

Lets try as a group, to think collectively. To consider "new" possibilities and break into a greater understanding of the nature of our universe.

Consideration 1

It does not take a huge leap in intelligence to understand, One can not create something out of nothing.
Matter and energy can not be destroyed or created only transformed.
Therefore, a Big Bang Universe doesn't in Truth exist. Nothing, in terms of Nothing can produce matter and energy.

Consideration 2.

All reality experienced by the mind is just a holographic projection downloaded from another point source.
For those that have an understanding of what consciousness is, than it is understood that the mind creates reality. The brain does not know what color, sound, texture really is. Through some incredible process the mind can only imagine reality. Therefore, the objective universe that we conceive though our body senses is really just a projection of mind.

Yet, this projection in association with others is consensus reality.

The only way, individual human beings can experience a consensus reality, as a function of mind, is if we are all tied in to the hive collective via a third party source.

Therefore, all reality is a holographic simulation controlled externally.

Consideration 3.

We do not actually exist in a real universe, only a virtual universe which was created from data and presented with certain capabilities and limitations. Much similar to the way we presently create virtual reality video games.

We don't actually exist on a planet. It is more just a virtual reality realm.  It has some characteristics of following a flat model for simplicity, and other features of following a round  model for simplicity as well.

Holographic universes are similar to radio and television signals. I shall refer to them also as dimensions.
Just as how we can change the television channel from one station to another, holographic realities exists in multitudes the same way.

Therefore it is my offering in this thread to consider another possibility to explain the nature of "here"

Like a dream, we are all existing in a consensus reality dream, in which in order to enter into this dream, one has be be birth via a body (sexual reproduction via parents) and in order to exist, the avatar has to succumb to death via accidental, intentional or planned age failure of the system of body.  :-\

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Infinite Energy!
« on: March 07, 2015, 04:48:15 AM »

Lets face it, the human being at present is quite a stupid animal.

You mean that everyone is stupid compared to your vast intellect? 

No Mike, I include myself as a dumb stupid animal. I am just as delusional as the rest.
Some are aware of this limitation, most are not.

However an interesting behavior trait that human beings do is projecting their fears and insecurities onto others.

Just as a understanding parent is aware of why a child has a tantrum, the child is incapable of being aware of the parents patient awareness and  understanding of the child's mind. 


Again, dark matter is not an assumption, it's a place holder name for something we don't understand.

Ok so back to my original statement about the scientific method being flawed.

If scientist theorize that when they look up and all around them, all the energy, all the matter contained in the whole universe, including all the stars, dust, planets and gasses, it only accounts for 4.9 % of what they can detect.

Therefore the scientific method, which studies matter ( anything that exists and occupies space). Only concerns itself with that which exists. This means that 95% of the universe is currently unconsidered and ignored by the scientific method.

No single individual can possible understand even 4.9% of how the functional universe works.
In order to fully understand full reality, one must have access to all aspects of reality.

Therefore,  it would be an exercise in complete delusional thinking, upon understanding this to consider that the scientific method was not flawed.

All human beings are inherently flawed due to being inherently delusional. :-\

It is said, Mike that if one can't dazzle others with their brilliance, than one can always baffle them with bullshit.
I doubt you have much an actual working understanding of astrophysics by reading your statements. Which is ok, few individual do. Most folks I come across are not even aware of of what consciousness is.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Flat earth theory right or wrong
« on: March 06, 2015, 06:51:20 PM »

 For example, if I said, "The supposed elves live in the woods behind my house," and if the elves do not exist, then they do not live in the woods behind my house, do they?

If you are having a dream about elves, while you are having the dream, do the elves exist in the woods behind your house?

Perhaps a true statement is that Truth can not be found in an illusion  :)

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Infinite Energy!
« on: March 06, 2015, 06:48:45 PM »
So when can we go and get our Utopian society? But seriously, is the UA infinite energy? What is it's origins?.

Our universe, in my humble opinion all comprised of energy, and the universe is infinite.
So your theses in that regards is quite correct.

However, our access to it, is strictly monitored and regulated.

Lets face it, the human being at present is quite a stupid animal. We simply are not allowed to play with the fires of such potential energies. :-\

Most human beings would fail an idiot test?

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Flat earth theory right or wrong
« on: March 06, 2015, 06:36:49 PM »

Please stop making assumptions.  The only reason you think those images are fake is because they conflict with your beliefs, if they are really fake then prove it.

Mike, my good man.

Seriously, those Earth images are quite fake.
Mike awareness works in a really strange way. People who are not mentally capable of understanding things have a mental block, and until their awareness increases they will defend their ignorance.
None are immune.

There is more than enough evidence contradictory information contained in those images, that they self disqualify themselves to an open minded observer.

In my eyes, I am conversing in this dialogue with someone who has the mind of a child and can't reason past special effect. This is not a put down, but trying to get  you to take a serious look at those fake images.

Hey when I was a kid I use to watch "lost in space" and those monsters sure looked real.

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Flat earth theory right or wrong
« on: March 06, 2015, 06:20:58 PM »
i know for a fact the earth is not flat please look at satellite images if you think im wrong and please tell me how im wrong

When you are laying in bed, having a dream

What kind of land are you on, is it flat, or round? Both perhaps?


Dark matter and dark energy are just names given to whatever is causing the universe's expansion to accelerate and the invisable stuff between galaxies.  It doesn't matter if the universe is expanding because of unicorns pushing it, it's still called dark energy.

I don't see anything wrong with that image by the way.

In our solar system, think about how the planets rotate around the Sun.

Mercury 88 days.
Pluto 247 years

Now go back and examine that image and ponder the question.
How can the stars in that image take that configuration and shape, if the are orbiting a central point such as a black hole?

If you wish to experiment to help aid you in understanding the model, go to your blender, pour in the ingredients to make a milk shake. When the blender is operating, and the mixture is quite homogenous, turn off the blender. Then place some food coloring (dye) and some nutmeg on the surface of the milkshake solution, than turn on the blender again at low speed.

Notice what happens to the food coloring and dye.

Next empty the blender completely of the contents and look at the blades at the bottom of the mixer.
Consider how the blades at the bottom rotate all fixed together as they rotate around the center axis.

A spiral galaxy tends to violate all principals of physics because the stars on the outer regions (spiral arms) appear to rotate around the axis in the same time period as the stars closest to the centre of the galaxy.

Hence, if our solar system operated on the same physics as what we are observing in the spiral galaxies, than Mercury and Pluto would both take 247 years to orbit the Sun.

Scientists had to dream up an excuse of what was causing the universe to operate that way, hence Dark Matter and Energy.  :-\

Now do you see what is wrong with the image?

There is plenty of evidence that dark matter and dark energy are real, dark energy is what we call the mysterious force causing the universes expansion to accelerate and dark matter is invisible matter which is known about by it's gravitational influence on other things.  It's clear that dark matter and dark energy exist, it's just that we don't know what they are and they are really just names given to something we don't understand.  Nobody would bother giving them names if there was no evidence.


Lets try something ......different.

Instead of you being a parrot and just regurgitating everything you read, perhaps you can touch upon some of the reasons they had to come up with Dark Matter and Energy theory to explain various events which were observed in the cosmos. See if you can for example talk about an observation that you personally have made that one would not read in a book?

I just wish to understand it you actually know what you are talking about or if we are just witnessing a parrot trying to masquerade as an intellectual being. 

Can you for example explain the problem with this image scientifically (which is typical of many spiral galaxies)


And you still haven't pointed out a flaw in the Big Bang Theory. You've just dismissed all of science out of hand, simply because we don't know everything yet.

I have, you just chose to ignore it.

Thank you for your time and interaction.
I am going to abandon this thread.
It is my observation that there are not enough members here on an equal level to myself to foster any real advancement in communication.

take care.

The scientific method is the study of matter.
What? What?!!

Did you even read the paragraph you cited?
The scientific method isn't only the study of matter. At all.

To accurately summarize the paragraph you cited- the scientific method is concerned with  gaining new knowledge and correcting old knowledge through evidence and reasoning.

So please explain to me how the scientific method is able to measure that which does not exist as matter or energy?

Dark Matter and Dark energy, please explain how that is measured with scientific instruments or observations?

I suggest you actually try a new method in your reasoning. Instead of being in opposition to whatever I say, which is a serious flaw in learning, try understanding what I am attempting to convey.

I could point out, that in your entire life, you have been so conditioned and brainwashed to do that when someone questions  your current State sanctioned rubber stamped approved reality that it becomes a knee jerk reaction that is done at an unconscious level.

My goal here is not to talk to a parrot, but to reason with another individual that is capable of expanding your horizons beyond beliefs or institutional conditioning.

Dark energy is the most accepted hypothesis
It can't be seen or it can't be measured.
It is theoretical.

If more than 95% of matter in the universe is not considered in the scientific method, than the reality that exists that science deals with is less than 5%.

Studying less than 5% of what is, and proclaiming to be the machine of truth would be a serious flaw in Truth.

If it is your standpoint that studying less than 5% of the universe by a method is not flawed, than I would classify that as a statement of a narrow mind.

For example, most human beings even though they walk around conscious, have little consideration for what exactly consciousness is and how it occurs.

But in conclusion, the scientific method is flawed because it only studies what exists in our physical universe and by that it must contain mater or energy.
However it is already a consideration by theorist, that all the matter and energy in the universe that we can observe through the scientific method is less than 5%.

I would not trust any map in which the whole map was based on only knowing 5% of the actual information.
Would you?



I doubt you will get it.
So I shall explain.

Dark Energy and Dark Matter, which is an unknown form of energy comprise according to Wikipedia about 95.1% of the universe.

Therefore, the scientific method is only based on studying less than 5% of the universe.

...reason it out man....reason it out. :-\

source for dark energy and matter

Do you understand why the scientific method is flawed?

Np, I don't understand why you think the scientific method is flawed. Please enlighten me.

The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge.[1] To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry is commonly based on empirical or measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.

Can you spot it?

To paraphrase.

The scientific method is the study of matter.


Well, FET certainly has created something out of nothing!

The Flat Earth society actually serves a great purpose, in that they challenge the current paradigm.
Naive as they may be, they are actually on the right track to experiencing awakening.

They may not be fully aware where the fire is, but they definitely smell smoke. ;)

Like I already stated, quite a few of their observations have complete merit.
Some aspects of natural phenomenons on Earth appear to demonstrate a flat Earth model.
That is undeniable to this open mind. :-\


However, a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation."

I have already shown you several pieces of evidence to support the big bang theory.
Saying that the big bang theory is a guess is absurd.

And the fact that you still the think that the Big Bang Theory is about creating something out of nothing shows you don't understand the theory.

The scientific method is also flawed.

The fact that you are so quick to judge me also shows that you are narrow minded.

Do you understand why the scientific method is flawed?


And you still haven't disproved the Big Bang Theory.

Why would I want to disprove it.
It is a theory, which means " guess"
In this case educated guess.

Guess do not qualify as truths.

After all.

arguing against other people's theory is like arguing against other people's beliefs.
As i stated before, beliefs are just illusions, not truths.

The Big Bang is flawed.
You can not create something out of nothing. << period.


You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't like the Big Bang idea, why is everything accelerating from a central point? And how do you explain the cosmic microwave background?

Where did the singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density come from?


We don't know.

That is the most important point in your post.

I have already studied and have familiarity with all general aspects of the things you mention. 
Those were my initial things I learned in my studies a few decades ago and long ago used as a bases for consideration.

For example, in Tom Cambells Book my Big Toe (which means "my big theory of everything") he discusses his theory of how the entire universe is a holographic simulation.
It is not that difficult to grasp.

If you have not familiarized yourself with the book, I urge you to at least watch a few of his many videos on youtube.

After all, he is a scientist with a Phd, so I would assume he would know something about what he is talking about.

My goal in this thread is to offer folks an alternative insight.

Otherwise, to actually believe we exist on  a flat planet floating in the cosmos, one would have to be a complete imbecile.
It would be an exercise in complete stupidity.
Simply because we have the devices to prove it, and they would be simply ignoring the evidence because it is an inconvenience.  :-\

That being said, perhaps there are some very good points the Flat Earthers do make as observations.
My guess, is that they are just failing to connect all the dots to finalize their theory.


You can't.

The universe started as singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density.

If you don't like the Big Bang idea, why is everything accelerating from a central point? And how do you explain the cosmic microwave background?

Where did the singularity- a single point with infinite mass and density come from?


My point in all of this....

a kind of paradox exists.

One would consider that you can not create something out of nothing.

Therefore, one who has a belief in the Big Bang, for the most part, is completely ignoring the basic fact that it would be illogical to assume one can create something out of absolutely nothing.

So, just as when I put the question to you, you played "here we go around the mulberry bush " as you kept avoiding the common sense fact that something can't be created out of something.
So we have to start with the premise there was something,,,, which avoids the whole dilemma  of " I have no clue how something came from  ::)


The key word is 'isolated'. The Earth is not an isolated system here; it receives a vast amount of energy from the Sun. The entropy of the Sun-Earth system is increasing.

let us start at the beginning.  ::)

Please explain where all the energy (or mass)  first originated from to cause the Big Bang.
Let us start with absolutely Nothing.

Explain how you can suddenly create something out of nothing.  :-\


I must say

that i too have looked through telescopes at Jupiter and Saturn and they are out there, and look just like the images we are shown via NASA.

The image below was gained courtesy of a Google image search.
When I looked through my friends amateur telescope this is the type of image I saw too
(minus the names of course)

Over the course of several hours of observing that planet, I could see what appeared to be the moons moving around the planet.

However, I consider that it very unlikely that something came out of nothing, and then self organized.

That would be very unlikely.
Good thing that that's not the premise of the big bang.

What exactly do you mean by self organized?


One of the ideas involved in the concept of entropy is that nature tends from order to disorder in isolated systems.

Evolution would tend to be an example of a system losing Entropy.
loss of entropy equals more order : increase in entropy equal less order.

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