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Messages - 17 November

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: NAACP & the American Ruling Class
« on: August 17, 2017, 07:23:38 PM »
It's worth mentioning that the prolific Professor Gerald Horne was final editor-in-chief of 'Political Affairs' which has been the flagship journal of the Communist Party USA since World War II and finally merged with the 'People's World' magazine last year in 2016.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Jim Crow Revival
« on: August 17, 2017, 07:16:26 PM »
Will the USA become more racist,  and bring back segregation,  I doubt it, I think those days are gone

I also doubt old style racial segregation will return, at least not soon. That's not exactly what I was saying.

 I believe the 99% and the 1% existed back in the Jim Crow era & segregation and racism were tools the 1% (the ruling class) used to keep the lower class divided.

By the 1960's, enough people saw through the old racist laws and that instrument of repression and exploitation lost a lot of its effectiveness. It has been replaced by prisons and jails and police power which have all multiplied since the 1960's.

The ruling class is mostly the same, but their instrument of repression has changed because the civil rights movement successfully damaged the old racist system (although it by no means destroyed it).

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Jim Crow Revival
« on: August 17, 2017, 07:00:20 PM »
Will the USA become more racist,  and bring back segregation,  I doubt it, I think those days are gone

You might be interested in a book about the pervasiveness these days of jails and prisons by Michelle Alexander and entitled:

'The New Jim Crow'

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Jim Crow Revival
« on: August 17, 2017, 06:54:10 PM »
From the heart, I have to stop and say thanks to both Rayzor and FalseProphet for rendering a conversation that is simultaneously both intelligent and civilized.
Much respect.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Jim Crow Revival
« on: August 16, 2017, 06:14:53 PM »
The police and many lawmakers were allied with the Ku Klux Klan and violent groups in the old Jim Crow South. These laws would give legal protection to the violence and murder which the Ku Klux Klan and similar groups and persons commit.

It is a fascist effort aimed at those who fight for the rights of the disadvantaged.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Jim Crow Revival
« on: August 16, 2017, 06:06:42 PM »
Proposed laws in several U.S. states protect drivers who kill protesters. This move is strongest in areas like the American South where Black Lives Matter demonstrations have stopped traffic.

Police unions and allied politicians are the most open supporters of these proposed laws that would legally protect killing protesters. The legislation is being worded so the driver gets off unless it is proved the death was intentional.

Does Jim Crow still exist if this passes?

Arts & Entertainment / Re: What are you reading?
« on: August 06, 2017, 07:20:23 PM »
Cedric Belfrage's book is to my knowledge the best book on america's domestic fascism from 1945 to 1960 since it is not perverted by the establishment's viewpoint. It offers the victims' perspective, and it covers the entire "McCarthy" era which the civil rights movement succeeded in breaking up temporarily and only to a degree.

I'd like to get more books by the black Marxist historian Gerald Horne who (among others such as Angela Davis) shows that the establishment sought to control the civil rights leaders and labor union leaders by ensuring that only the programs of anti-communist leaders met with success. Thus, the NAACP and the AFL-CIO (and the Democrat Party) are anti-communist just like Republicans.

Indeed, the Democrat president Truman started the Cold War. That is the subject of:

'We Can Be Friends:
The Origins of the Cold War'
By Carl Marzani (1952)

This book blames the Americans and is perhaps the best history of McCarthy era foreign policy and an appropriate complement to Cedric Belfrage's book about domestic fascism.

 I just ordered Carl Marzani's book. I am reading Belfrage's. As to the name of the McCarthy era, Belfrage says in the preface that J. Edgar Hoover deserves the era named after him more than any other American as he fathered america's domestic fascism, it's police state.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: What are you reading?
« on: August 05, 2017, 06:30:19 PM »
'American Inquisition: 1945-1960'
By Cedric Belfrage

The best history of the McCarthy era I've come across.
It's a year by year account with informative references to the best books on various aspects and very good analysis. The author founded perhaps the most militant non-communist national newspaper of the era and was deported in the 1950's after being questioned by McCarthy.

This book seems a relevant resource for both conservatives and liberals as many fascist extremes like American laws providing for concentration camps have their origins during this era.

This era was such a remarkable reversal of the politics of 1943 & 1944. I generally don't agree with the anti-communist themes and politics in Hitchcock's movies, but I just saw one from 1942 called 'Saboteur' which is likely the best movie he ever directed. The scene with the old blind man in the forest is obviously derived from Frankenstein and steals the show. His ideals such as "believing a man is innocent until proven guilty" or "unjust laws need to be disobeyed" are such a contrast to the McCarthy era fascism described in Belfrage's book perhaps more eloquently than any other.


This movie broadly brought to mind a comparison with Office Space. The head of the underground fascist network who is kind of untouchable is analogous to Lumberg. The old man in the forest is most analogous to the hypnotist.

Particularly nice is Horne's assertion at the conclusion that many young people's fascination today with the Jim Crow era is motivated by what they correctly discern as dissatisfaction with compromises such as those made by the NAACP leaders.

The fight against racism has been a great thing, but many things which the NAACP did rightly such as combatting Jim Crow laws were programs which originated communists to whom they seldom gave credit.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / NAACP & the American Ruling Class
« on: July 29, 2017, 07:29:13 PM »

In 1948, NAACP Compromises With White Racist American Establishment &
Accepts Anti-Communist Ideology to Survive.
Accordingly, they expel and persecute their own founder, the scholar and civil rights activist W.E.B. DuBois

Real News founder Paul Jay interviews Houston University Professor Gerald Horne, a prolific Marxist historian.

In the first of six 20-minute segments which assess phases of American history, Horne criticises the NAACP for compromising the civil rights movement by agreeing to become anti-communist - a modus vivendi made with america's repressive establishment to oppose communism in return for a measure of civil rights.

This is a major contributing reason for the relative success of the NAACP and the decline of the Communist Party USA during the Cold War.

In the black community, Horne explains, opposition to white racism is paramount. As long as one follows that principle, he has legroom in other areas. The white establishment successfully exploited this weakness of the NAACP. Martin Luther King got out of line by publicly defending communism through his support of the Vietnamese against American fascism, and he was dead within about a year.  By contrast, some NAACP leaders have been cowardly to speak against america's wars, and have deviated from the heritage of their founder, the outspoken W.E.B. DuBois who in fact joined the Communist Party USA shortly before he died.

As Horne alludes towards the end of this first segment, this compromise which mandated anti-communism on behalf of representatives of the lower classes was also made with labor union leaders which explains the deradicalization of unions like the CIO.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Ukraine's Successor State
« on: July 29, 2017, 03:24:11 PM »
Since Ukraine has a particularly ugly post-Soviet history even among East European governments, the Malorossiyan Federation composed of members from all over the Ukraine issued a decree in July 2017 endorsing the end of the Ukrainian state concomitant with the creation of a new government which is in accordance with the will of peoples throughout the land and a corresponding period of transition.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: July 29, 2017, 11:42:17 AM »
Flat Earth - Crazy Scientist

Very well done.

'Solidarity Forever'
By the Almanac Singers

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: July 27, 2017, 07:11:21 PM »
Hallelujah, I'm a Bum
By Utah Phillips

Hi guys,

I am a bachelor student Aerospace Engineering and totally believe that the earth is a globe. Within our field of engineering/science it is common sense that the earth is a globe and not flat.

I wonder what the view of a flat earther is on this group of people working/studying in Aerospace. Are all my professors wrong, or do they contribute to the conspiracy? Are all the companies who work in Aerospace, launch rockets, build satellites, use satellites, etc. wrong or do all these people know about the truth but tell us lies? can they keep their company running if satellites can not orbit the earth because it's not a globe?

I believe that airborne satellites are just as compatible with the reality of a flat earth as are airplanes, but I find your main question about the aerospace industry and engineering to be more interesting.

For an alternative view of the American engineering industry in general including its aspect of tightly controlled education and propaganda, I suggest:

'America By Design'
by David Noble

which will give a strong perspective of exactly how the engineering industry functions in the scheme of things in the way you perhaps imagined some of us believe. Here is a old but accurate review of the book written after it was published in the late 1970's:

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: July 27, 2017, 06:27:33 PM »
Roll the Union On
By the Almanac Singers

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: July 26, 2017, 07:20:26 PM »
I was thinking on this Johnny Cash song that anyone (man or woman) wanting to marry an American should consider it before committing.

'White Girl'

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: July 24, 2017, 07:55:32 PM »
Are You Man Enough?
By the Four Tops

Arts & Entertainment / Re: What are you reading?
« on: July 18, 2017, 06:35:39 AM »
'Virtual Politics: Faking Democracy in the Post-Soviet Union'
By Andrew Wilson

This book and its author's other books are typical, anti-communist propaganda - just what you would expect from most American and British writers.

However, he does here provide a lot of evidence and facts relating to the engineering of elections in Russia. By the official polls, United Russia, Putin's party is the leading party, and the Communist Party of the Russian Federation is second.

In spite of the author's prejudices, I believe there is a measure of truth in all this evidence about Putin faking elections to stay in power.

I suspect that the majority of Russians prefer the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, and Putin has prevented its resurgence. Don't get me wrong. I generally agree with Putin about issues such as Ukraine, but so do the communists. The west and their propaganda are nothing but fascism, and this fascist propaganda has prevented correct understanding of Russia by painting communism as evil and by painting Putin as a communist. He was at one time, but he's definitely not a communist these days. He's not the devil incarnate and does have his good aspects, but I believe he is not the best for the job.  If he was the best, the Soviet Union would have already reconstituted with Ukraine and the others, Khaddafi would still be alive and in power, and the U.S. would be haulted and turning in upon itself.

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Nuclear Power Exaggerated
« on: June 30, 2017, 01:12:25 AM »

These are good links and very relevant.

At a glance, I do not find any reason to dispute the basic story about SL-1. My main argument has been that the exaggeration of the explosive power of weapons of mass destruction (which I believe is a technically more accurate name than nuclear weapons).

I don't question that so-called nuclear reactors function and generate energy. Although I might differ as to the explanation of fission and the science behind "nuclear" reactors because I do not believe atoms exist although atomic theory can be useful in some ways. Rather than argue about atoms, I would defer anyone interested in that view to the work of the late Pierre Duhem who certainly explained it better than I could.  At any rate, I do not generally question the reality of such reactors regardless of the explanation of what transpires to make the heat or energy that issues from them.

Two comments about things that Heiwa has said. First, I believe Hiroshoma was bombed by one big bomb, not carpet bombing. However, most of the damage was caused by fires ignited by the bomb rather than the blast which is contrary to American propaganda as well as photos of large areas of the city totally unscathed.
Second, the truth about Niels Bohr is both he and the Nazis generally knew little to nothing about weapons of mass destruction. A book called the Farmhall documents revealing their secretly taped private conversations reveals their ignorance.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: June 29, 2017, 10:55:10 PM »
Stalin Wasn't Stallin'
By the Golden Gate Jubilee Quartet

I believe the greatest hero of the last century is the most lied about. Goebbels's anti-communist propaganda triumphs today because people believe it uncritically without hearing the other side in such neglected books like those of Albert Kahn:

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing
« on: June 29, 2017, 10:41:23 PM »
'Black & White'
By the Weavers (1955)

To celebrate the U.S. Supreme Court's 1954 (Brown vs. Topeka Education Board) abandonment of a century of racial segregation as the law of the land in the USA imposed by the 1855 Dredd Scott Case

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Anger bigotry and dishonesty
« on: June 24, 2017, 07:06:20 PM »
Forgive me if this is out of place, but I came across an old song that seems to sum up all the bitterness you've described. For what it's worth,

Hitler Lives
By Rosalie Allen (1945)

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Nuclear Power Exaggerated
« on: June 24, 2017, 06:41:25 PM »
Atom & Evil
By the Golden Gate Quartet

Flat Earth Believers / Re: what do u believe 1st
« on: June 23, 2017, 09:59:54 PM »
To insist that  the earth is flat may have it's place, but to insist that such a truth is more important than God seems obtuse.

Out of prudence, I want to clarify one point. I dare not say nor think of anyone as obtuse. That's not my call. I do believe that the thought itself of anything being as  important as God is a foolish thought.

I do not believe in judging people, but I often consider it good and correct to evaluate and judge ideas.

Flat Earth Believers / Re: what do u believe 1st
« on: June 23, 2017, 09:45:08 PM »
Of course, I believe God. I also believe that man is created by God consisting of two parts: body and soul, the earth into which God breathed. Since I believe man was created in the image of God who is one nature that transcends a Trinity, the soul of man is a Trinity.

Plato was correct when he spoke of a triune soul: intellect, emotion, and ethos (the conscience).

For me personally, to ascertain the truth about religion is necessary with a view to security for eternity and perhaps just out of love for God.

The flat earth is true, but it is not necessary for salvation. To insist that  the earth is flat may have it's place, but to insist that such a truth is more important than God seems obtuse. I think it's wise to be sober enough to recognise the level and place of application some truths. As Solomon wrote to everything there is a season and purpose under heaven.

Flat Earth Believers / Re: what do u believe 1st
« on: June 23, 2017, 09:21:38 PM »
I relentlessly started pursuing the truth and came to the conclusion that I'd been lied to about a lot of things in school and the media.

I aggressively began collecting books specifically about this media phenomenon and systematic propagation of falsehood in the twentieth century.  Now that I've assessed some of these books, I would say the  media in nineteenth century America was very different in a good way: it was less monopolised and ownership more distributed. Worthy of mention is a 1936 non-fiction book by Upton Sinclair entitled the 'Brass Check' that tells the sad story of how the newspapers and journalism (the media) became monopolised.
What is newsworthy and what is to be believed in as truth by the majority in America is decided by the rich and those who depend upon them for a livelihood.

The consensus of nineteenth century writers was that flat earth belief has a common history with early Christians up to the time that Islam resuscitated pagan globe earth philosophy. Nowadays, writers uncritically accept Jeffrey Burton Russell's contention that flat earth belief was rare among early Christians, and it is an unsubstantiated lie.

I've heard self professed Christians argue that Josephus never wrote that Christ was resurrected in spite of the fact that he clearly wrote exactly that in his book 'Antiquities of the Jews' and many ancient writers also quoted him as writing that. Why would someone wanting to follow Christ make such an argument against his own interest? It's because the propaganda has been successful here.

This reminds me of beautiful recent conversation I had with a 75 year Vietnam veteran (a leftist who realised at that time that the Americans were actually the bad guys) whose been a prison security guard all his life and nearing retirement. He told me most of his younger co-workers vote against their own interests. By and large, more often than not, they vote and argue for what the rich want. 

I told him that compared to his generation, and even more so in comparison with the WWII, that the generation today is by comparison politically further to the right and also more stupid. He looked down kind of sad and shrugged saying "It's true."

I believed the earth was flat since 1996 when I first read the original and more compact (1849?) edition of Rowbotham's 'Earth Not a Globe'. 

This was in the context of a vaster search for spiritual truth and for a Church since 1992 and which by 1999 had narrowed to the Eastern Orthodox Churches by process of elimination.

What led me to Rowbotham's book at that time when it was far less well known was a Protestant bible commentary given to me in 1994. A passage discussing the travel of the sun on its circuit in Ecclesiastes 1:5 which was embarrassed about the bible apparently being out of touch with modern astronomy made me highly offended. I was not especially interested in astronomy before that, but I became a geocentrist that evening because I could not tolerate that from someone who claims to believe the bible inerrant and dares to teach about it. I wanted no part with such cowardice.

Afterwards, I sought out spherical geocentrists as flat earth was not even a consideration and seemed beyond extreme, but Charles Johnson's flat earth society was the only thing I could find remotely related. So I finally began to check it out and follow its leads which led me to Rowbotham's book by 1996.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: What are you reading?
« on: June 21, 2017, 08:49:01 PM »
'Race War!'
By Gerald Horne

This book is about the reverse racism characteristic of Japanese imperialism that degraded white people and propagated Japan as a protector of non-whites that gained popular support from Asians which mightily assisted Japan militarily.

Refreshingly, this is a World War II book that slams America as a colonial, racist pariah. The author is a prolific and clever black communist university professor and historian who views both Japan and the U.S. as racist colonial empires. In the 1930's Japan was, without question, the country black Americans admired the most.

Japan's anti-white racial society and its military successes frightened the living daylights out of america's rich 1%, and they sought to guarantee the postwar loyalty of non-White Americans. This is the reason for Truman's integration of the military in 1948 and Eisenhower and the U.S. Supreme Court supporting civil rights of non-whites in the 1950's: the Japanese threat made their sponsors (the rich 1%) reconsider what course would preserve their hegemony. A degree of civil rights was permitted because it significantly undermined the motive behind non-White revolutionary potential.

The Lounge / Re: 8/21 August Solar Eclipse
« on: June 18, 2017, 10:24:31 AM »
If I was going to watch the eclipse from somewhere outside of the shadow, I would say it doesn't get any better than the summit of Mount Hood in Oregon. At that spot, you're close enough to see the eclipse shadow pass over the Cascade mountains from a commanding bird's eye view.  That said, the view from Madras will likely be more spectacular.

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