1

Flat Earth Q&A / Sun spots?

« on: December 31, 2006, 12:48:44 PM »

Just a curiosity, what is the FE view on Sun spots? They can be viewed with no special equipment and are in constant motion. You can view them tracking from one side to the other, then disappearing on the leading edge.

Just wondering the FE view on them if the sun and planet dont rotate.

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Flat Earth Q&A / davedavedavegus I'm calling you out!

« on: December 31, 2006, 12:43:14 PM »

I stand very corrected about the "Democratic Milestone" nonsense. As I despise our current leader, I cannot express how much this frustsrates me hearing this being stated as such.

And the holocaust question was just a curiosity, as I have met many a person from Germany who deny it.

3

The Lounge / The Holocaust didn't happen.

« on: December 30, 2006, 07:38:44 PM »

The only thing you have proven in your various threads is that you are yet another internet douchebag who will only argue just to spurn a conversation into oblivion.

If YOU can prove the record keeping was accurate at the time, by all means do so. If you can prove that EVERY SINGLE JEW was accounted for by documentation, I will stand down. Until then your just another arrogant debator who cannot meet in the middle and at least agree that there is no way to fully account for all the people died there whether it be less or more, the relavent fact is that a SHITLOAD of people died horrific deaths. Its becoming a moot point.

4

The Lounge / The Holocaust didn't happen.

« on: December 30, 2006, 07:15:46 PM »

Your talking something that happened in a day of "modern" technology, none the less of an event that occurred to a people group that was not in the process of being shuffled about.

There is no records based way to count all the people that died in the holocaust. As unfortunate as it is, its true. The tsunami's victims can be counted within a pretty small margin of error due to modern records keeping practices. Think of how many people arrived at Ellis Island back in the early 1900's that didn't have any paperwork to identify them of even existing to their native land. THen think of the Jew's in the holocaust. They never even had a "homeland" until after WWII, they had been constantly focibly relocating for decades. Thats why it could have been nearly any number.

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The Lounge / The Holocaust didn't happen.

« on: December 30, 2006, 06:30:31 PM »

Its virtually impossible to count the number of deaths with an event like that. It could have been closer to 20 million or as little as 500,000. Thats what happens when you INCINERATE bodies as well as bury them.

Unprovable, why argue?

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Flat Earth Q&A / davedavedavegus I'm calling you out!

« on: December 30, 2006, 06:27:17 PM »

Still have I yet to say that America is without defect? No, unless you can prove otherwise, quit touting it as so.

And I dont have to show any "basis" for the fact that human nature is to destroy ourselves. Its blatantly obvious. For thousands of years the one objective in the human race has been to conquer and rule. We take over a country and then tout peace for the world.

Look at Meiji era Japan. His goal was to "unify" Japan and create peace, only by destroying anyone who wanted to retain traditional values, etc.

Look at Fidel Castro, his goal is "peace" and he still rules as a warlord.

Hitler touted peace, only by attempting to destroy an entire people group.

America touts world peace only by invading countries under the pretense of taking them over to give them "better lives". Granted Sadam ruled as a Totalitarian dictator, and he did horrid things to the people of Iraq, but we cannot deny the loss that has occurred because of their view that violence will lead to peace.

Look at what is happening in Darfur. The Janjaweed have been committing mas genocide for years in the notion that they will bring peace by eliminating the non Baggra peoples in the land.

Its our nature to destroy ourselves no? History proves this. There will never be world peace because there will always be someone vying for power.

7

The Lounge / The Holocaust didn't happen.

« on: December 30, 2006, 06:12:11 PM »

The telephone was never really invented.

And remember, the Holocaust took 6 million LIVES, not necessarily the number of JEWS. And also, on that note, Stalin's kills are usually factored into this.

Actually the total amount of people killed is estimated at around 9,000,000 to 11,000,000 while the total number of Jews killed is estimated at around 5,000,000 to 7,000,000 - usually stated as 6,000,000.

"Stalin's Kills" are not factored into this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

Stalin, on the other hand, had around 1,500,000 people killed, and was responsible for the deaths of a varying amount - maybe about 10,000,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin

The holocaust really happened.  People who deny it are wrong.

Figures provided by WIKIPEDIA.

Sorry, not a valid source. I could change it to that 1 million of the 1.5 that Stalin had killed farted before death.

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Flat Earth Q&A / occam's razor

« on: December 30, 2006, 05:46:35 PM »

Thats because you are coming to that conclusion based on experimentation. Some come to the conclusions using Occam's Razor because they either are too lazy to test it, or they really dont care that much.

To validate any stance on things like the shape of the earth, how we got here, etc. you have to want to test it. There is a difference between being a sheep amonst sheep and being a goat amonst sheep.

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Flat Earth Q&A / davedavedavegus I'm calling you out!

« on: December 30, 2006, 05:41:22 PM »

I never said America was without defect did I straw man?

The fact still remains though that you have enjoyed (given your over 21 years old, which I doubt) roughly 21 years of "freedom" when America enjoyed around 180 years of "freedom"

You have to look at the nature of human beings as well, it is in our nature to destroy ourselves, to conquer the weak, and rule with information, fear, and power. So in the end, sure America started free, but they are just reverting back to what they came from. Germany was "free" before the 1930s, and it reverted back to the very fabric of human nature. So enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts, your bubble of having a "perfect" country will collapse.

I still have yet to hear ANYONE say Sadam's execution was a "Democratic Milestone", and FYI, in case you have been completely oblivious to the trial, it was IRAQ that tried him, IRAQ that found him guilty, and IRAQ that executed him. Not America. We only found him in his little hole.

Curiosity, do you believe the Holocaust really happened?

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Flat Earth Q&A / occam's razor

« on: December 30, 2006, 05:34:30 PM »

True on that, I was merely directing my post towards people that use Occam's Razor to establish a factual stance and prove a given theory because it "bears the most chance of being true".

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Flat Earth Q&A / occam's razor

« on: December 30, 2006, 04:33:47 PM »

If you use Occam's theory for FE vs RE theory you will find one thing, That neither theory is acceptable without some amount of faith and accepting that there is some things that are unanswerable.

I dont think its something that aids EITHER side in this matter because it just points to the thought that maybe we should quit fighting because we're more alike then we realize. Its like evolution vs creation. There is a great amount of faith that goes into both because both have no scientific basis of proof. Its one of those that people should just say "ok, you think your way, I'll think mine, we'll find out in the end."

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Flat Earth Q&A / davedavedavegus I'm calling you out!

« on: December 30, 2006, 04:28:30 PM »

I never said it made America LESS moronic, only that they should rather examine themselves before going at the pot and calling it black.

And since when has Germany had a free and democratic country? It may seem that way, but its not.

Even so, if you want to call it 100% free and democratic, its been what, 21 years since the wall fell? Compared to nearly 175 years of America actually being 100% free and democratic. Even today its not completely totalitarian, after GWB gets kicked out we should see some changes being made.

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Flat Earth Q&A / davedavedavegus I'm calling you out!

« on: December 30, 2006, 02:45:58 PM »

Its amazing that every other country is so quick to piss on the Americans and ignore their own country's asshat decisions.

I had an argument with a French guy the other day about his belief that France was a superior country and still a major super power. I stated that no one gave two s**ts about france anymore, and it was obvious by no one attacking them and trying to lash out against them. He asked me to prove that, and I responded "The last time someone gave a s**t about France was when they came marching through the Arc de Triomphe under a Nazi flag" He kinda looked funny then walked away.

Before going on about how moronic the Americans are, look at your own country first, cause I can guarantee you, I will be able to show you just how moronic your country is as well. Our LEADER may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but that bears no reflection on the general populace of a country. Remember, he lost the popular vote both times.

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Flat Earth Q&A / The one question not seen in your FAQ/I'm new, hello!

« on: December 30, 2006, 02:32:48 PM »

Engineer, perhaps you can answer my question of why the horizon appears to be lower on its sides then directly in front.

And I could possibly be remembering wrong, it very well could have been the JSF that he flew, it was a while back, and he's passed on now (colon cancer last april) so I will never be able to ask to clarify.

And on the topic of the no dogfighting anymore, alot of that too was they believed missile systems would be advanced enough to take out an enemy jet at nearly any distance, making guns unecessary. Its somewhat of a crap conclusion due to the fact that as missile tech gets better, so will countermeasure tech, still causing a need for backup weaponry.

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Flat Earth Q&A / The one question not seen in your FAQ/I'm new, hello!

« on: December 29, 2006, 09:29:55 PM »

Understandable completely.

Its an interesting thought, that of a flat earth. It would change alot of how we view the world...

The only thing I cannot seem to grasp is how it would be held in space, and what the universe would be composed of if our planet was flat and not a spherical body.

I know that there is a religion (I believe Hindu) that states that the earth is carried on the backs of four elephants, as featured in the Diskworld series by Terry Pratchett (great books).

16

Flat Earth Q&A / The one question not seen in your FAQ/I'm new, hello!

« on: December 29, 2006, 09:01:46 PM »

Now if you used the North Star as a navigation point... Well I can easily see that form of navigation failing miserably on the FE model if you traveled far enough. But as stated if you used general east/west direction you would travel in a ring. Following sunrise and fleeing sunset would cause the same effects.

And I know the A10 is slowly being cycled out It was always my favorite aircraft even before I knew what it was. I had a micro-machine model of it and had always loved the design. After learning about how rugged and virtually invincible it was I just fell in love all over again.

I didn't know the Rapter was capable of VTOL operations?

East/West being an general term. As in, I'm looking east from my present spot, I shall travel that direction. East as in right. Not the heading that you would follow.

The new model (cant remember the designation) is, the original model that is in full usage now is capable of 75-80 degree take offs due to fully angleable (if thats a word) engine tubes. The new models have a thrust coefficent capable of VTOL, it was still in development when my Grandad flew it.

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Flat Earth Q&A / davedavedavegus I'm calling you out!

« on: December 29, 2006, 08:58:28 PM »

I wanted to do that, but I chose to stay.

I go to a Christian Private school, and my days are filled with interesting conversations that you don't hear in a typical school.

It is a scary place when I am the most liberal person in the building, let me tell you.


That, and they have nice trips that I get great discounts on.  For example, Spring Break in Italy is going to be NICE.  And it's only costing me about $1,800 for plane tickets, hotel accomadations, tour guides, admission to musuems, breakfasts and dinners!

So, I decided to stay.  8-)

Trust me, I've been there I went to a CPS when I got expelled from public school. It was interesting to say the least.

Libertarian - check! Conspiracy nut - check! Open minded - Check!

Dont even get me started on when we talked about homosexuality... They about labeled me a heretic and burned me at the stake for saying "I honestly can never tell you a time where I just decided I was going to like boobs and want to ravage every woman that came my way. Most homosexuals will say the same". Ahh fun times...

18

The Lounge / The Holocaust didn't happen.

« on: December 29, 2006, 08:52:04 PM »

The telephone was never really invented.

And remember, the Holocaust took 6 million LIVES, not necessarily the number of JEWS. And also, on that note, Stalin's kills are usually factored into this.

In the same, there has never been any viable resource to count the exact number of deaths during that time either, most that place it at 6 million are estimating.

There have only been roughly 2.8 million confirmed deaths attributed to the holocaust itself. Still a great number, but nowhere near 6 million. I'll post the source when I relocate it.

19

Flat Earth Q&A / The one question not seen in your FAQ/I'm new, hello!

« on: December 29, 2006, 08:46:31 PM »

I'd like to start by saying I appreciate you not instantly insulting those with the FE mindset. While I myself am RE I believe I can answear your questions.

I didn't come here to bash, nor did I come here to tout about one belief or another. My objective is to learn, and only that. And through that maybe I can discover my own beliefs I think people that are automatically attacking a belief or idea are full of S*** and they need to learn to at least tolerate differentiating opinions.

Cant remember who said it in their book but this is my mindset with tolerance "When faced with the persecution of my group (the author was in a Nazi prison camp), first the Hindu's were taken and killed. I said nothing as I was not a Hindu. Then the Gypsies, I said nothing because I was not a Gypsy. Then the Jews, I said nothing because I was not a Jew. then the Christians, I said nothing because I was not a Christian. Then they came at me, and when I cried out, I had no one left to help me." We should never discriminate against a belief because you never know when it will be their help you need.

Answear 1) My own idea on how this would work is that our eyes have a set distence with which we can observe objects through our atmosphere. The distence is the same in all directions, which means our line of sight ends up being a circle. This could (if viewing the world from a high altitude) result in the appearence of a curved horizon. Others may post other opinions.

Never thought about that before... I'll have to research it.

Answear 2) On the FE model, the north pole is in the center, while the south pole makes up the outside edge. If you base navigation on a compass you will always be traveling East or West, which is left or right of North. This would cause you to travel in a large circle around the North Pole.

But if you use no nagivational equipment other then starting out in a general direction, would you not hit the edge of the earth (in a plane)?

BTW how did your grandpa enjoy flying the Rapter? I think if I ever wanted to sign up for the armed forces I would want to go to College just to fly either a Raptor or the A-10 tank killer, the big ugly one if I got the name wrong :p

He absolutely loved it beyond belief. He still touts it as being the best all purpose jet ever created and that it shows the future of military aircraft. He was able to do several 90 degree landings on it as well and said it performed those better then the Harrier.

The A-10's are slowly being phased out in favor of high altitude aircraft that are capable of doing low yield cluster bomb attacks to get the same effect, as well as with drones. Ever since they outlawed all usage of incendiary ammunition against live personelle the A-10 has lost its main objective, which is crap because its a damned fine plane...

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Flat Earth Q&A / The one question not seen in your FAQ/I'm new, hello!

« on: December 29, 2006, 07:33:56 PM »

Hey guys,

I have to admit, you have a very interesting and very LOGICAL theory here. And also, I even have some part of me that sees it as extremely valid. Really there has been no cladestine evidence that is proveable by the common man to affirm the earth is indeed round. But yet, vice versa there really hasn't been any to negate it being round.

I guess I'm searching for a personal belief now because I hadn't ever really thought about it. We're all shoved the idea that the earth is round in school/church/whatever, hell we even have a holiday devoted to some guy (who for all we know in present day may have not even existed) that supposedly found the world was round.

I have one main question, along with one that isn't really important, that was not addressed in the FAQ and I'm looking for your take on it.

I am an avid mountain climber and pilot and have reached the summit of some of Washington State's smaller mountains, and reached the summit of Mt. Hood in Oregon. Upon reaching the summits of the mountains and flying at cruising altitude (especially over the ocean) I always noticed one thing. The horizon curves. This is most noticeable over the ocean. You'll see clearly that in the far right and left sides of your vision the earth appears to be marginally lower then it does directly in front of you.

Would this not be due to a round earth? I'd like to hear the FE take on this.

My other question was this. I had a friend that back around 1995 she set out to "circumnavigate" the world in a sailboat. She was planning on doing it without high-tech navigational equipment, the initial goal to be to leave Seattle going West then to follow the coast of Asia, Africa, and South America up to roughly the location of Mexico, resupply and then keep going again.  How is it that one would never find the "ice wall" if they kept going in the same direction. My grandfather was a test pilot in the Air Force (I know, government, just keep with me for a second) and on his last flight while testing the F-22 Raptor he was told to "keep it running as long as he could" by using in air refueling, etc. and to land only when he was too fatigued to continue. His story was that he took of from Whidbey Island NAS and went west and continued on not paying any attention to his heading indicators and after refueling several times, ended up above Washington roughly 16 hours later.

An F-22 Raptor has a cruising speed of approx 1600 MPH at high altitude, giving an infinite amount of fuel, it would make that journey in exactly 15 hours.

Just interesting stories to pick some brains. Other than that, Hey guys, glad to be here!