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### Messages - JJA

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1
##### Flat Earth Debate / Re: Scientific evidence that the Earth is flat
« on: December 01, 2020, 04:14:55 PM »
If someone says they have proof that 1+1=3 I don't need to examine their evidence, because I know they don't have any.

If someone says they have squared the circle, I don't have to look at their evidence because that too has been proven to be mathematically impossible.

If someone says they have a map of the flat Earth that matches the observations of a round one... again, that is simply going to be wrong, you can't map a sphere onto a plane without folding, cutting or mutilating, and we would certainly notice missing or folded pieces of the Earth.

This is why there is no evidence of a flat Earth. It can't show evidence of being round AND flat at the same time. All the evidence has to pint to one or the other. To find evidence of it being flat means ALL our observations and measurements have to be thrown out. Everything we have seen for thousands of years has to be WRONG including all the satellites and people launched into orbit and beyond. All mistaken. All a big oops.

This isn't something you can just start finding little bits of evidence for. The puzzle has been put together, there isn't anywhere for flat earth pieces to go.

2
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 01, 2020, 04:00:55 PM »

Draw yourself a circle and place a horizontal level on it and see where it points.

No, this is your theory, I'm not playing your game where I draw exactly what you describe and then you tell me how it's wrong.

Your theory. You draw it, and quit making excuses.

Or don't you know how?

Do you think people only see in 1 dimension?
When you look forward, do you only see directly forward or do you also see peripherally to the left right top bottom?
If you looked through a simple straight tube that was levelled, how much would you see outside of that circle of light to that tube?

Could you see your feet if you were stood upright and looking through it?
What about a few feet in front of you?

How far do you get to before you actually do see anything?

That depends on the size of the tube, how high it is above the ground and how far your eye is behind it.

This is all extremely simple to answer, it's basic geometry, just a few lines and angles. Stuff grade schoolers learn and understand.

I'm not surprised you are unable to grasp the concept of drawing lines and measuring them.

3
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 01, 2020, 03:58:03 PM »

No, this is your theory, I'm not playing your game where I draw exactly what you describe and then you tell me how it's wrong.

Your theory. You draw it, and quit making excuses.

Or don't you know how?
You want to know so get drawing.

How am I supposed to draw something that only exists in your mind?

Well, I'll take this as your refusal to show us a picture of what you think the edge of a ball looks like.

I can only assume it's because you don't actually have any idea what you're talking about here. Otherwise, how hard is it to draw a simple diagram?

Come back when you can actually draw a simple image, or find a picture of a ball that shows this mysterious non-horizon or whatever it is you imagine it looks like.

4
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 01, 2020, 06:19:16 AM »
Sceptimatic, please. Provide some diagrams. Following what you are saying without visuals is impossible for me.
What exactly would you like. Be specific and do not make it complicated to draw.

Draw or find a picture of what you think the horizon looks like on a round Earth.

You keep saying it wouldn't be a line, so show us a picture.

It's a very simple request.
It's not a simple request. The reason why is, you cannot have any horizon on a global Earth.
I've explained why, in so many ways.
You people have tried to put forward, drawings that go against horizontally level focus and passing them off as just that when clearly they are angled views.
No, it's an extremely simple request.  Just show us what it looks like.

You have tried and failed to explain many times, which is why we are asking you for a simple picture.  A drawing.  Anything.

Show us what you imagine standing on a sphere would look like. If you can't, then you don't REALLY know, do you?
If I had to show you then I'd draw a ball and a line on the ball that would be horizontally level.
That line would see the ball curve under it.
It would leave you viewing sky, if it were possible to live on a Earth ball, which it is certainly not possible.

Again, I'm asking you to draw it, not describe it.  What you are saying makes no sense.

Show us a picture or a drawing of what you think it would look like to stand on a sphere.

You keep deflecting and refusing to do such a simple thing.
Draw yourself a circle and place a horizontal level on it and see where it points.

No, this is your theory, I'm not playing your game where I draw exactly what you describe and then you tell me how it's wrong.

Your theory. You draw it, and quit making excuses.

Or don't you know how?

5
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: December 01, 2020, 04:18:13 AM »
Sceptimatic, please. Provide some diagrams. Following what you are saying without visuals is impossible for me.
What exactly would you like. Be specific and do not make it complicated to draw.

Draw or find a picture of what you think the horizon looks like on a round Earth.

You keep saying it wouldn't be a line, so show us a picture.

It's a very simple request.
It's not a simple request. The reason why is, you cannot have any horizon on a global Earth.
I've explained why, in so many ways.
You people have tried to put forward, drawings that go against horizontally level focus and passing them off as just that when clearly they are angled views.
No, it's an extremely simple request.  Just show us what it looks like.

You have tried and failed to explain many times, which is why we are asking you for a simple picture.  A drawing.  Anything.

Show us what you imagine standing on a sphere would look like. If you can't, then you don't REALLY know, do you?
If I had to show you then I'd draw a ball and a line on the ball that would be horizontally level.
That line would see the ball curve under it.
It would leave you viewing sky, if it were possible to live on a Earth ball, which it is certainly not possible.

Again, I'm asking you to draw it, not describe it.  What you are saying makes no sense.

Show us a picture or a drawing of what you think it would look like to stand on a sphere.

You keep deflecting and refusing to do such a simple thing.

6
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 30, 2020, 04:29:49 PM »
Fox News pushed the birther conspiracy theory hard.
FOX News or opinion shows on FOX News?  You do understand that there is a difference between the news segments and the opinion segments, don't you?

There is a difference between my right hand and my left hand, but I control them both.  Fox News tries to be a real news organization, at least some of them do, but we have all seen the leaked memos, and we have all seen them report. They are still owned by Fox Corporation, which is under control of the Murdoch family, and always has been.

They are a puppet news channel, as much as they try and pretend otherwise.

Remember.  Fox Entertainment opinion segments will say terrible things, then an hour later the 'real' news comes on and says "Some people are saying..."

It's all the same thing, just different names.

Don't forget the times Fox went to court, and won, arguing they had the right to order their news anchors to LIE.

7
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: November 30, 2020, 02:51:15 PM »
Sceptimatic, please. Provide some diagrams. Following what you are saying without visuals is impossible for me.
What exactly would you like. Be specific and do not make it complicated to draw.

Draw or find a picture of what you think the horizon looks like on a round Earth.

You keep saying it wouldn't be a line, so show us a picture.

It's a very simple request.
It's not a simple request. The reason why is, you cannot have any horizon on a global Earth.
I've explained why, in so many ways.
You people have tried to put forward, drawings that go against horizontally level focus and passing them off as just that when clearly they are angled views.
No, it's an extremely simple request.  Just show us what it looks like.

You have tried and failed to explain many times, which is why we are asking you for a simple picture.  A drawing.  Anything.

Show us what you imagine standing on a sphere would look like. If you can't, then you don't REALLY know, do you?

8
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 30, 2020, 12:37:37 PM »
Sure, but that is irrelevant.  JJA is saying The Daily Beast hadn't covered The Great Reset yet because only uncle Joe, and conspiracy theory websites were talking about it.  He's basically saying nobody knew about The Great Reset except places like FES (which he'd consider a conspiracy theory website). Fox News (and other major media) have been talking about The Great Reset for several years.

Do you think I'm defending Fox News? Is that the disconnect? If you go back and read from here https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87417.msg2292592#msg2292592  you should be able to see what the disagreement is. Has nothing to do with the content Fox promotes, but that the conspiracy has been in the mainstream media for months now.

I just disagree that the 'mainstream media' has been covering this, because I don't consider Fox 'mainstream media'.  They are a conspiracy oriented, right wing propaganda entertainment media business.  Fox Entertainment is a conspiracy website and cable channel.

And yes, I do consider FES a conspiracy theory website. I'm not sure how it doesn't qualify.

The mainstream media has been mostly ignoring The Great Reset conspiracy theory until the past month or so.  We haven't seen CNN doing any primetime shows on it, it's all been very low visibility columns or talked about by the few reporters that specialize in such things.  I certainly never heard about it, nobody I know has heard about it.  It's not filtered up enough even now for the average non-conspiracy following person to have heard anything about it.

Time will tell if this conspiracy theory gains traction in the mainstream or fades away.  Depends how many right wing and conspiracy sites try and spread it.

Fox is MSM because it is huge, well known and everywhere. It's not completely bat shit crazy but granted it does have loopy right wing loser commentators (looking at you Carlson Tucker et al) but as a whole it isn't sitting on the fringes like Breitbart or Infowars etc (though I'm sure Tucker is a bigly fan of both lol)

Agreed it does lend weight to some nutter stories that other organisations wouldn't touch. That's just Fox catering to a dim witted audience

Fox News pushed the birther conspiracy theory hard.  They are putting plenty of airtime into the whole "democrats stole the election" conspiracy.  They have no right to call themselves a news network.

9
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 29, 2020, 03:35:25 PM »
Sure, but that is irrelevant.  JJA is saying The Daily Beast hadn't covered The Great Reset yet because only uncle Joe, and conspiracy theory websites were talking about it.  He's basically saying nobody knew about The Great Reset except places like FES (which he'd consider a conspiracy theory website). Fox News (and other major media) have been talking about The Great Reset for several years.

Do you think I'm defending Fox News? Is that the disconnect? If you go back and read from here https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=87417.msg2292592#msg2292592  you should be able to see what the disagreement is. Has nothing to do with the content Fox promotes, but that the conspiracy has been in the mainstream media for months now.

I just disagree that the 'mainstream media' has been covering this, because I don't consider Fox 'mainstream media'.  They are a conspiracy oriented, right wing propaganda entertainment media business.  Fox Entertainment is a conspiracy website and cable channel.

And yes, I do consider FES a conspiracy theory website. I'm not sure how it doesn't qualify.

The mainstream media has been mostly ignoring The Great Reset conspiracy theory until the past month or so.  We haven't seen CNN doing any primetime shows on it, it's all been very low visibility columns or talked about by the few reporters that specialize in such things.  I certainly never heard about it, nobody I know has heard about it.  It's not filtered up enough even now for the average non-conspiracy following person to have heard anything about it.

Time will tell if this conspiracy theory gains traction in the mainstream or fades away.  Depends how many right wing and conspiracy sites try and spread it.

10
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: November 29, 2020, 05:12:50 AM »
Sceptimatic, please. Provide some diagrams. Following what you are saying without visuals is impossible for me.
What exactly would you like. Be specific and do not make it complicated to draw.

Draw or find a picture of what you think the horizon looks like on a round Earth.

You keep saying it wouldn't be a line, so show us a picture.

It's a very simple request.

11
##### Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Again: 3 Spheres ain't Equal 2 Cylinder (Please No Big Mouth)
« on: November 28, 2020, 04:55:40 PM »
Really? Kinda disagree for now..

I watched your video where you used a paper strip, cut weird notches into it that were clearly not lined up right and then measured these incorrectly cut sections to get the wrong answer for PI.

So yeah, you don't know how to measure a circle.

12
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 28, 2020, 04:20:57 PM »
Your original point was that The Daily Beast hadn't covered it because "uncle Joe" and conspiracy theory websites were the only ones talking about it. My point is that Fox is not a conspiracy theory website, they are mainstream media.

Fox is absolutely not a mainstream media site, they are a right-wing propaganda station that includes pushing anti-democratic conspiracy theories.

They cover conspiracy theories because that is their purpose, to spread disinformation that helps the ring wing.

So yes, conspiracy theory media are the only ones that cover all the crazy conspiracies until they get big enough to be noticed by the mainstream media.

13
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 28, 2020, 05:40:48 AM »
No, you dingbat. I said "Fox News is not a conspiracy theory website." I said it a couple times, then you make up something I didn't say so you can argue against it.  Here, learn something https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-straw-man/

I'm pretty sure Fox News has a website.  Also pretty sure they push conspiracy theories on there.

https://www.foxnews.com/

Not sure why you are splitting hairs here, my point is that the company Fox News pushes conspiracy theories, on both their cable channel and their web site. It's not at all surprising that Fox would be covering conspiracy theories, on any of their media entities.

14
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 27, 2020, 02:30:16 PM »
Fox News isn't a conspiracy theory website. I know this conspiracy is getting traction, it has been for months. I do not know what you are arguing about.

Are you saying Fox News doesn't push and promote conspiracy theories?

They are pushing a BIG one right now, the conspiracy theory that democrats committed mass election fraud.

They were a huge promoter of Birtherisim.

Bengazi?

Death panels?

The deep state is constantly being talked about.

Oh yeah and how Hillary strangled Seth Rich in bed.

The whole Charlottesville thing was staged by actors.

I could go on and on.

Hannity and others are not news. They are entertainment and not to be taken seriously. Fox admits this openly.

15
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 27, 2020, 12:24:10 PM »
Fox News and Sky are not conspiracy theory websites, you dingdong. They've been talking about it since July. Also Will Sommer is the conspiracy theory guy for The Daily Beast. I've been following him for years.

Fox News is absolutely deep in the conspiracy ecosystem. Conspiracies and lies are Hannity and the rest's bread and butter. That and their gold scams. They talk about all kinds of bullshit, some of which spreads, some that doesn't.  Looks like the Great Reset is one that's getting traction currently.

Probably not going to be the next Pizzagate but who knows.

16
##### Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Again: 3 Spheres ain't Equal 2 Cylinder (Please No Big Mouth)
« on: November 27, 2020, 10:06:29 AM »
I think the clue lies inside you.  Look deep.

Be my guest. Please tell me what that is.
Can you explain why pi is only right in maths while experiment tells different constant?

Sure!  You don't understand how to measure a circle.

17
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 27, 2020, 09:45:09 AM »
I don't have an uncle Joe, and this one has been all over the rightwing press for more than a month. I guarantee Will Sommer has been aware of it since it started being covered.

Conspiracy theories tend to spread and be talked about on conspiracy theory centered web sites so that's not a surprise.

They need to get big enough to get noticed before anyone else starts looking into them.  Generally nobody cares what the next 4chan or QAnon obsession is until Trump retweets it or it gets enough traction to be worth it.

18
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: November 27, 2020, 09:25:54 AM »
So now you're using a hump.

No I didn't. I said that you people claim it rises up. I've said time and time and time again that your global Earth would curve dowan and away from you. There would never be any hump.

I think skepti seems to be imagining there must be some kind of 'hump' that goes upward, as if he's standing behind the ball and not on top of it?

He's clearly having trouble visualizing complex concepts like, you know, what a ball looks like.

Uh, you are the one confused with all this 'hump' stuff.  You seem to have attached some special meaning to 'hump' that you haven't explained to anyone else.

There are plenty of pictures being provided, but all you are doing is talking about humps.  I see lines, curves and angled.  Please define what this hump is, maybe draw a circle around it?

19
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 27, 2020, 08:35:18 AM »
The conspiracy has been going on for weeks, why is The Daily Beast so late to the party?

Takes a while for conspiracy theories to gain enough followers to be noticed by the rest of the world.  Nobody is going to report on a conspiracy theory your Uncle Joe rants about at every Thanksgiving dinner.

20
##### Flat Earth General / Re: What would change your mind?
« on: November 27, 2020, 04:35:01 AM »
No I didn't. I said that you people claim it rises up. I've said time and time and time again that your global Earth would curve dowan and away from you. There would never be any hump.

I think skepti seems to be imagining there must be some kind of 'hump' that goes upward, as if he's standing behind the ball and not on top of it?

He's clearly having trouble visualizing complex concepts like, you know, what a ball looks like.

21
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 27, 2020, 04:26:54 AM »
So the Great Reset is the newest right wing conspiracy theory.

Why am I totally not surprised I heard about it here first?

22
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Who will win the election?
« on: November 26, 2020, 06:52:43 PM »
Trump is slowly being forced to admit that he's a loser.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/26/politics/trump-leave-office-electoral-college/index.html

Finally he said that if Biden is voted in, Trump will leave the White House.

Of course, he lies so much that his word here is worthless.  But at least he said it.  That's progress, right?

Baby steps.

23
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Text Book Science Completeness
« on: November 25, 2020, 06:13:31 PM »
As opposed to burrying the evidence that you can see flat along thesurface of earth and the curvature isn't there. I worded that kindof awkwardly.

Also, of course there is likely the issue of being taught to see things a certain way.

This always confuses me.  I've driven and flown all around the world and it's anything but flat.  I can look out my windows now and what do I see?  Hills and curves of the land, it's not flat at all.  Parts of the USA are very flat, but even those have hills in places.  Then I see pictures of the Earth from space or high altitude and it looks VERY round.  I don't understand why one, single, narrow, simplified viewpoint is all you accept and everything else is lies and fake and cgi.

As for being taught, I was taught to evaluate evidence. I was taught science is a process. I know many theories we have now will be overturned with new and better ones.  I don't think science knows everything.  Relativity and Quantum Mechanics are two theories that work amazing, but will be overturned with better versions, or a combined one eventually.

Us non-flat earth believers are not the close minded ones here.  I'm also curious why you believe what you do. "It looks flat" is just not a very convincing argument, when it's also does not look flat at all.
Evaluate evidence yes, but the evidence for flat earth is suppressed. Just look at my "those seacrh engines" thread. I looked up mathematical proof of globe earht and finally found a cache of flat earth videos.

I've lived on the hills of three oceans and two large lakes, I've done plenty of observations with zoom lenses and telescopes.

Everything has always matched what the math says.  I go higher, I see farther.  Ships always sink below the horizon bottom first.  I can see stuff from the top of tall hills that I can't on the beach.

If you want to believe in a conspiracy feel free, but no conspiracy is faking what I see with my own eyes, and what thousands, if not millions of people and photos and videos show.

You find no evidence for what you want to believe, and your conclusion is it must be suppressed. That's close-minded thinking.
I didn't realize you are so wealthy with all the oceanfront villas. This confirms my suspicion that you are in the conspiracy.

Even Trolls get hungry, here, have have a snack.

You haven't experienced much of the world if you think any land with a view of water is expensive, or even desirable.  Where I grew up, the stretch of houses along the lake were slums.  Mainly due to that being where they dumped all the sewage and industrial waste.  Better these days, but still plenty of spots that are either too remote or too polluted for anyone to WANT to live there.

24
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Who will win the election?
« on: November 25, 2020, 04:53:34 AM »
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/25/politics/trump-pennsylvania-hearing-giuliani/index.html

Gettysburg is where we stopped these guys the last time.  I guess Trump wants a do-over?

That's fine.  We will stop them here again.

A fitting location for Trump to lose AGAIN, really.

Amazing that people like Tim are STILL convinced that Trump is going to win, that the Supreme Court will hand it to him, or congress, or Superman, or the Lone Ranger, SOMEONE will step in and save the day, surely!

The whole lot of idiots are going to be so confused when Biden is President on Jan 20th.

25
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 24, 2020, 05:45:00 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi

What's wrong with this? We have been using light modulation to send data for a long, long time. It's nothing new. Every fiber optic cable uses light modulation.

I was sending audio signals using a homemade laser and a receiver 20 years ago.

Infrared remote controls for your TV use light modulation, those have been around even longer.
Sorry, but full internet connection through a light bulb is new.

Your point?  I can use an led light bulb as a hammer to pound nails with and that would be new.  Modulating light has been around as long as we could make light.  We were doing it on ships at sea hundreds of years before electricity.

It's just blinking a light really fast.  Nothing to be frightened of.

26
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 24, 2020, 04:59:06 PM »
Did you miss the part where they talk about using light modulation as mind control?  If you can't find it, then it's a sure sign that you've been reprogrammed.

I'm an expert on mind control.  I'd know.

27
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The Great Reset
« on: November 24, 2020, 03:27:19 PM »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li-Fi

What's wrong with this? We have been using light modulation to send data for a long, long time. It's nothing new. Every fiber optic cable uses light modulation.

I was sending audio signals using a homemade laser and a receiver 20 years ago.

Infrared remote controls for your TV use light modulation, those have been around even longer.

28
##### Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Got some nasty Ransomware on my computer...
« on: November 24, 2020, 02:07:48 PM »
Ouch.  That sucks.

If you have backups of everything vital, reformat the drive and reinstall. No safe way to come back from that in my opinion, you can never be sure you got it all.

If you pay, it's 50/50 they will just demand even more money from you.

29
##### Flat Earth General / Re: Ice wall
« on: November 24, 2020, 05:49:20 AM »
Some models of the flat earth, according to Tom Bishop - big time flat earther - have antartica as a seperate continent and also have an ice wall.

"Some models" is your problem.  Round earth has one model, and it's round, and it works in every situation and matches all observations.  If you need a dozen different models to explain what you see and dance around them to avoid admitting any flaws... well draw your own conclusions.

30
##### Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: nCoV public service announcement. (IMPORTANT)
« on: November 24, 2020, 05:47:40 AM »
I certainly know it's a very liberal place that overhelmingly voted for biden. I think you already forgot the context. We are not debating where new york is, we are debating whether or not it is possible/likely that pfizer released it's press statement a bit later to hurt trump.

I'm not sure throwing around baseless accusations with no evidence is considered a debate.

But I suppose, considering where we are debating it...

Let me try.

They announced their results EARLY to hurt Biden.  Because the earlier they are released, the more it makes Trump look good.  So it's a conspiracy to overturn the election!

They are based in New York because that's Trumps hometown and where he has a lot of property.  A very clear connection.

Makes sense, right?

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