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Messages - Gumwars

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1
Suggestions & Concerns / Re: Moderation Suggestions
« on: June 01, 2020, 12:45:08 PM »
Is this in regard to a specific incident?

No, just general suggestions and recommendations.

I think most of what you are describing is pretty well laid out in the forums rules thread in Announcements.

It is, but isn't consistent.  For example, the FE General subforum doesn't really have any guidelines for posting.  It could be that maybe some spring cleaning is in order (that post is more than 10 years old), actually, that's probably the case.

The problem is, most offenders either haven’t read them and/or simply don’t care. Not only are the general rules for the entire board laid out, but descriptions of what should and should not be discussed in the different boards is also presented. It very clearly states that Q&A is not for debating. Yet people do anyway, and then get upset or find themselves wondering why their post was moved to the AR Garbage Dump (or split off into Debate, as will happen sometimes).

And you guys do a pretty good job when it comes to that.  It may be beneficial to include in the post that's created when you move/delete/merge a thread to state which rule invoked the moderator action.  I'm referring to the purple highlighted, italicized post.

The title of that thread is “The Forum Rules - Read Before Posting!” Do you think it should be copied and stickied into every board? I personally don’t think it’s very hard to find. But perhaps linking directly to it in the Welcome email after someone signs up is a good idea so they don’t overlook it.

Yes!  I think both or either would be a great idea. 

EDIT: Not purple.  More like a bluish grey?

2
Suggestions & Concerns / Moderation Suggestions
« on: June 01, 2020, 08:20:10 AM »
Moderator for the TFES have the burdensome job of making sure all members, be they FE proponents or RE adherents, play by the rules so that the best possible discussion takes place for each part of the forum.  What happens with regular frequency can only be viewed as a partial success when it comes to enabling the best possible discussion.

My experiences on the web and in life have pointed to clear expectations being the best way to ensure members do their part.  What I have found in my time on this forum, is that many of the subforums do not have clearly defined rules, nor does the website in general have a clearly laid out TOS (terms of service).  Often, moderators work on a very loose and ambiguous set of guidelines, which likely causes just as much frustration for them as it does the members trying to post original content or respond to other members. 

What I suggest is that each subforum have a clearly defined set of rules (for those that don't, I do realize that some already have fairly clear expectations) along with a general set of rules for the entire forum.  These could, for example, include something like:

For Flat Earth Q&A -
1. No debate oriented questions, or questions worded that invite debate
2. No comments aimed at inciting debate, or questioning the validity of an answer given in response to a question about FE

Subforum rules should tie into the general forum rules of decorum regarding not being overtly rude, avoiding ad hominem tactics, staying on topic, and only digressing if the OP agrees it would contribute to the overall discussion.

A general warning should also be posted here informing members that should they violate those subforum rules, comments or posts may be moved or deleted.  Further, PM'ing members for first time offenses along with naming what rule(s) were violated, along with what action was taken could help prevent future missteps.

Additionally, providing a stickied comment at or near the top of each subforum with a list of hyperlinked, most popular topics titled "READ ME FIRST BEFORE POSTING" would help a bunch in reducing duplicate posts. 

These are, of course, suggestions.  Hope you all are doing well and be well. 

3
There is also the BiPolar Flat Earth Map.
Note comments from other flat earth believers.

Yes, I'm trying to be VERY precise and I'm ONLY arguing against the monopole flat earth map.  I'm not sure that WW2 in the Pacific makes the bipolar flat earth map impossible, as I haven't studied the bipolar version as much. 

But if I can discredit the monopole one because of my understanding of WW2 in the Pacific, that's enough for me!

While I fully appreciate your enthusiasm, discrediting the azimuthal projection map only takes asking about Sigma Octantis. 

4
You guys are all falling for sandokhan's ploy.  This copy-pasta nonsense is tired.  Here's the real issue, starting with the OP:

How does water stick to a globe?

@sandokhan, this is not the question you are asking.  The correct answer to that question has been provided multiple times.  What you are really asking is:

How and why does gravity work?

Be honest and stop with the sagnac effect crap. 


5
Flat Earth General / Re: Revisiting the Candle Experiment
« on: November 09, 2019, 02:22:00 AM »

- How did you account for any topographical rise or fall in the area selected?



Why would there be any level or sunken areas on a globe if Gravity has the power to crush mass into spheres?

If you say a sphere earth has some level and sunken areas, then gravity has not done it's job in those areas (Not including mountians) and you lose because you cant have it both ways. It either makes the surface a sphere or it doesn't.

If some areas are flat and sunken, then things should weight less in those areas.  Prove to us a 10 pound ball weighs less over the salt flats of the world than any where elese.

You are so screwed!

Plat, I'm speaking strictly about topographical variations in elevation at any given location.  Trying to find a spot that has zero elevation change can be difficult depending on where you live.  I'm near some mountains so finding a spot that has no elevation change isn't easy.  I was curious as to how John solved that issue when he did the experiment.  So, to point, what I'm discussing has nothing to do with whatever it is you're on about.  Further, Rab and Jack have pointed out that whatever your on about is, as always, hilariously wrong.

6
Flat Earth General / Re: Revisiting the Candle Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 10:28:17 PM »
I have no doubt you are being honest, but there is little fairness to "knowledge." I think if you looked into peer review you might find how deficit it is. But let us continue. Give me a second to bring up the joys of peer review and method. You will soon see, modern science is closer to nazi science or catholicism than it is what you might have been taught in school.

I am a bit drunk so give me this - a point. One point that you will stand upon - a line in the sand that will be a marc betweeen nonsense and 'science'. How can you define the logical, the reasonable, the scientific - from the popularity of the time.

Logic is always logic.  And/Or/If/Then/Not/Nor/Xor, truth tables.  What is necessary and what necessarily follows.  Deductive and inductive, strength, soundness.  I will concede that popularity, the mob, the rule of the mob often wins out over reason and logic.  The current political mess in the US (and to a degree, the world) are proof that rational thinking does not always rule the day. 

However, to me, there is always logic.  I define it as it is = a method of finding the truth.  The truth isn't always popular; I'm sure Galileo would comment on that.

I'll leave it at that.  John, I don't drink but I hope you enjoy your day/evening/whatever time it is in your neck of the woods.

7
Make no mistake - he is at our door. It might not be today, or tomorrow; the opposition will rise to meet you, and I will aid you in any way you might need. The storm is coming.

I have been an atheist for many years.  The notion of god/satan is, no offense, a childish threat used to cajole a juvenile species into placation.  Homo sapiens means man of wisdom; what logic can be applied to religion?  What reason can be gleaned from the Quaran?  The Bible?  The Kaballah?   The are stories from a distant time when we didn't know the world as we do now. 

I don't mean to mock your faith John.  I just find it an extreme stretch to think Elon Musk is a demonic agent.  It's a little fringe and open to skeptical criticism.

8
Flat Earth General / Re: Revisiting the Candle Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 10:15:40 PM »
The point was to try it yourself. Not a one of you did. Not a one of you valued empiricism over what you 'believed.'  Except me. Go on. Try the shipping crate. Or the candle. You might be surprised.

John, I'm going to be as fair and honest as I can with you; a quarter mile of 3 ply jute twine cannot be stretched taut to a point where its level with the ground.  The twine will break well before you draw the slack out.  5 ply jute twine will end the same.  Double braided nylon will still sag in the middle.  John, small gauge steel cable will sag in the middle at that length.  I'm telling you this because I've worked with those materials at lengths equal to and exceeding what you've offered here.  A quarter mile of steel cable is well beyond the price range of most and would be dangerous to pull taut at that length.  We haven't even touched on what sort of methods you'd need to secure each end. 

The point of peer review is that we attempt to recreate your experiment using the tools and methods you used.  We verify the experiment or discover its shortcomings.  If shortcomings are found, we improve on the process and add that to the documentation.  In the end we have a working experiment that others can attempt and improve upon if needed. 

So, are you going to participate or are you going to keep dodging?  I'm as close as you're going to get to a 100% willing guinea pig here John.  I'll buy the stuff and try to put this together.  I just need those questions answered.

9
I'm sorry friend. You have eyes that cannot see.

Evade.  Ignore.  Repeat.

Good luck.

10
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 09:45:38 PM »
The Globies here at the “Flat Earth Society Forum” have not advanced their cause at all, but are just argumentative parasites that evolve from their own dung.

So says the guy that can't solve the Crux Paradox.

See, I told you. The problem is, you have not proved it from different locations at the same time. The dung is on you.

No, you made an insane assertion.  I don't need to prove that the Southern Cross is to the south.  You'd need to prove that CENTURIES of sea going in the southern hemisphere somehow didn't notice these mysterious stars you speak of.

Plat, its sad seeing you fail like this.  You should probably go back to posting in the memes section where you can at least giggle at your own jokes.

11
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 09:36:05 PM »
The Globies here at the “Flat Earth Society Forum” have not advanced their cause at all, but are just argumentative parasites that evolve from their own dung.

So says the guy that can't solve the Crux Paradox.

12
Flat Earth General / Revisiting the Candle Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 09:35:28 PM »
Greetings all,

So, back in August, Mr. Davis threw down a bit of a challenge to the "roundies" in an attempt to prove the truth behind the shape of planet Earth.  For those that would like to get caught up:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82883.0

The premise is both simple and vague: take a quarter length mile of twine, stretch it between two sticks at a given height, place a candle at the center, and be amazed as the center will never dip low enough to burn.

This would be truly amazing if the following were true:

That Mr. Davis actually performed the task and discovered the problems in setting up the experiment.

Now, I'd love to recreate this experiment but John was rather lacking on some of the more important details.  I believe this oversight was intentional as to avoid getting any of us out in the field reproducing his work.  It is entirely possible that I am completely wrong and this was all a simple misunderstanding.

To be clear, I am 100% willing and able to perform this experiment.  I will document as much as possible, with photographs whenever able, and report those findings here.  All I ask is answers from Mr. John Davis, regarding the following so that I can recreate his experiment:

- What brand, ply, and fiber of twine did you use?
- What length, type, and diameter of pole or stick did you use?
- How did you account for any topographical rise or fall in the area selected?

I will gladly post my findings once these three simple questions are answered.

13
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 09:19:22 PM »
Ok boomer.

Gen X dude.  By the way, doesn't address my point.

14
But as the flat earth society, yes even you trolls - we all have to help. What's your ideas?

How about you stand on your own two feet and actually fight for a change?  It's sickening watching you ignore and evade every time a challenge presents itself to your sacred cultish idea.  That is the ONLY thing that can help TFES.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, well, the USA is against the ropes at the moment.  We have let a lunatic loose in the control cab and most civic duty minded folk are busy attending that emergency.  My idea there is this; rest of the world take note of what putting an uneducated kook in charge of the country can do.  Don' t do it, even if it seems like a good idea.

15
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 09:13:15 PM »
Unhinged historically is a name for progress. You can learn everything, but the giants you stand on have went for the discordant - every time.

Bullshit.  This is you playing the victim in an attempt to place your rant somewhere close to being legitimate. 

16
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 09:03:31 PM »
Have you not played the part well...

Glad to see the reflective, introspective you is equally devoid of substance.
oh my, fru fru, fra fra.

The substance you define to facts might be better served as evidence.

In this kangaroo court?  By all means prosecutor, do your worst.

17
We have far more important things to deal with than your quibbling about syntax and form.
Do you have any time to quibble about intellectual integrity?
To talk of the integrity of knowledge, would mean we could at least define knowledge at the outright. Its much better that we have no idea of what we might define knowledge as. It will shape us for years to come.

How about starting with just integrity.  I think we'd be fairly satisfied with defining that.

18
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:54:01 PM »
Have you not played the part well...

Glad to see the reflective, introspective you is equally devoid of substance.

19
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:50:44 PM »
Too much of something that you can trade with? There is a limit in this universe of how much you can have, if that's what you are asking.

Now, does calling Elon Musk an agent of Satan seem reasonable to you?

By the way, companies like Amazon, Google and Apple have much more cash than SpaceX.

No, of course it isn't reasonable.  My point was in response to Jack's observation.  Elon Musk has too much money, too much spare time, and an active imagination.  I understand SpaceX is worth less than other obscene capital ventures; that has little bearing on Mr. Musk and his diversions. 

To point, John Davis is more than fishing in his rant about Elon's purported religious activities.  It's unhinged.

20
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:46:57 PM »
The way that can be named, is not the Way.

What is a good man, but a bad man's teacher.
A fool. He is a fool. Show me the good man, and I'll give you an answer. Likewise for the bad man...

I don't recall that in Lao Tze's teachings.  Nor do I believe your quote from the Tao Te Ching keeping with his intent.  Show me a anyone that is willing to recognize his own failings, all of them in a row, and I'll say he is not a fool, but a man. 

This exercise here isn't to make order out of nonsense.  It's the opposite.  You don't work to find order; you are an agent of chaos.  You claim all the trappings of a man born of logic and wisdom yet this entire voyage is an affront to it. 

You may have good works in the real world John Davis, but not here.  Here is a room full of the jester and his lot. 

21
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:27:57 PM »
The way that can be named, is not the Way.

What is a good man, but a bad man's teacher.

22
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 08:18:28 PM »
Maybe you can answer. Does it seem reasonable to call Elon Musk who is trying to clean up the poluttion around the world an agent of Satan?

Maybe you can answer. Does it seem reasonable to call Elon Musk who is pedalling BS and wasting loads of money and pure stupidity such the hyperloop or trying to reinvent a pathetic tunnel an agent of Satan?

There is such a thing as having too much money...

23
Flat Earth General / Re: Question for global earth disbelievers
« on: November 08, 2019, 05:10:32 PM »
This is the second thread he's started instead of replying to John's very informative thread.

That made coffee shoot out my nose...

24
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 05:09:30 PM »

John, do you ever or have you ever actually answered a question?  You respond a-plenty but you rarely if ever actually answer.  I feel like I'm interacting with a slightly more sophisticated Eliza program...

Is that like Alexa?  Does it have different names in different countries?

Satan goes by many names...

Edit:  Ah crap.  Forgot which thread I was on.

Lol, I think my age is showing...

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/ELIZA

Yay!  Before my time.

Does that make me cool and down with the kids again?  I was starting to think I’d lost it, so thanks.

You're welcome...I think?

25
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 04:24:34 PM »

John, do you ever or have you ever actually answered a question?  You respond a-plenty but you rarely if ever actually answer.  I feel like I'm interacting with a slightly more sophisticated Eliza program...

Is that like Alexa?  Does it have different names in different countries?

Satan goes by many names...

Edit:  Ah crap.  Forgot which thread I was on.

Lol, I think my age is showing...

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/ELIZA

26
Flat Earth General / Re: Flat Earth Society Memes (No Globularist Memes)
« on: November 08, 2019, 04:21:16 PM »
Have fun in your echo chamber Plat...

27
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 08, 2019, 04:07:01 PM »

Oh okay. I'm sure you can explain then how refraction would cause a telescope to remove or add said refraction?

Why would it add or remove refraction?  Better question is why do you think it would add or remove refraction?
Because I'm aware of the experiment in question.

John, do you ever or have you ever actually answered a question?  You respond a-plenty but you rarely if ever actually answer.  I feel like I'm interacting with a slightly more sophisticated Eliza program...

28
Got it. You have no idea what the Bishop experiment is,

I'm aware of what was posted on multiple sites on the Internet.  I'm aware of its location and what the goal was.  I am also aware of what mistakes were made and why his results were incorrect.  As you have yet to expound on the point, beyond your usual pithy responses, I'm going to ignore your useless reply here.

you lied about Rowbotham's dropping out,

This would be a true statement if I was the one who wrote the Wiki about Rowbotham.  I am not the author, but I did use it for reference.  I have no problem agreeing with Tom's observation.  Still, a liar I am not.

and you baselessly lie that I did not perform the experiment.

Ahh, but here John this is far from baseless and not a lie at all.  Let me briefly review what you've offered about your so called experiment:

I asked you what weight and number of ply twine used; you declined to expand on it
I asked you what diameter and length of pole use to secure the twine; you declined to expand on it

Those two point alone are enough to debunk your intellectually stunted attempt at proving nothing.  Let me help with this.  A Mk. 84, 2000lbs bomb has a fragmentation minimum safe distance of just over one mile.  If I'm going to perform a remote manipulation of a bomb fuse at a safe distance, I need more than a mile of rope.  There is a tool called a mechanical impact wrench:



That is used with rope to remotely remove bomb fuses from unexploded munitions.  So, I have hands-on, first person experience working with the tools you claim to have used in your experiment.  I know, personally, that a quarter mile of rope has several dozens of feet worth of slack in it and that no matter how tight you draw it, you can never get it parallel to the ground across the entire length.  We used half inch rebar to secure the rope, not sticks. 

When you say that you pulled twine, and I'm assuming 3-ply jute twine, taut to a point where it was parallel over a quarter mile length and secured with sticks on either end, I know you're full of shit.  3-ply jute has a tensile strength of about 80 lbs.  We used double braided nylon rope for EOD work, and that has a tensile strength of 14,500 lbs.  And we can't pull that level to the ground over a quarter mile, no matter how hard we pull it. 

I know you're lying John, which is why I asked for the specifics regarding the experiment.  Which is why you haven't provided them.  If what you say is true, then tell me what kind of twine you used and what diameter/length sticks.  I know you won't, but I'm giving you a chance to prove that you aren't a liar. 

To anyone else reading this, what Mr. Davis is doing in this thread is classical behavior for him.  Notice that he never makes a stand on a point.  He never makes a technical assertion that can be independently verified.  When pressed, all he ever does is evade or ignore.  At best, you'll get him upset and he'll mock the role of a wounded gentleman. 

John, this conversation we're having is why you can't move this crap forward.  If you can't make a stand, while its true you'll never lose, but you sure as hell will never win.

29
Flat Earth General / Re: The Shipping Crate Experiment
« on: November 05, 2019, 07:17:43 PM »

Oh okay. I'm sure you can explain then how refraction would cause a telescope to remove or add said refraction?

Why would it add or remove refraction?  Better question is why do you think it would add or remove refraction?

30
Flat Earth General / Re: Is this the end of FE?
« on: November 05, 2019, 06:01:43 PM »
Are the Reddit FE'ers any closer to a workable FE model than anybody else or is it just more of the same RE bashing?

FE on Reddit is far worse than here.  The group is not very active and they don't seem as interested as most here in actually discussing points regarding the concept.

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