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Topics - Sadistic

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1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Intelligence Standards
« on: May 10, 2010, 09:25:55 PM »
Would it be beneficial to have an intelligence standard for voting or running for office? I don't know how you would be able to fairly implement something like this, but if it was somehow fairly implemented, I think it would work much better than pure democracy.

2
This seemed like far too big a topic to have a discussion about it in a thread not specifically designated to it.

All I was saying here is that I begin with the assumption that God is real.

-Why do you begin with the assumption that God is real? This is perhaps the most important question you can ever ask yourself, as it is the shifting point of nearly every atheist.

-Why don't you start with the assumption that god is not real, and work forwards at attempting to prove his existence, rather than start with an assumption and attempt the near impossible feat of removing it via disproving it?

-You verify everything else this way (except perhaps the assumption that reality exists): by starting with the assumption that it might not be true, and gathering evidences to prove its truth. Why is God's existence an exception to this? What is the benefit of having God as an exception?

-If you didn't believe in the Christian God, don't you think your life would follow a significantly different path? Doesn't the possibility of this make you want to test all the possible religious positions before applying yourself permanently to this one in particular?

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Civilians get raped
« on: April 05, 2010, 08:05:40 PM »
Graphic shit, but man those cameras sure did look like RPGs and those children sure didn't look like children.


4
Technology, Science & Alt Science / Movey light theory
« on: March 31, 2010, 05:16:24 PM »
The other day, an atheist showed me evidence that the earth and the universe are both older than I thought. He said that scientists can see stars that are so far away, it would take a hundreds of millions of years just for this light to reach us. Clearly this contradicts my beliefs, and we simply can't have any of that, so I propose a theory. God must have realized it would be really nice for us to have a bunch of stars to look at, so because of how much he loves us he must have moved the trillion trillion trillion+ of photons from the trillions of stars closer to the earth, when he created it 6000 years ago. What do you guys think?

5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / The low crime rates of Atheists
« on: March 27, 2010, 03:58:47 PM »
Now if anyone has ever argued with a theist over the morality of atheists, you have no doubt brought up the old "atheists have a significantly lower imprisonment rate than theists."

Now this thread isn't a thread putting into question the morality of atheists, being an atheist myself I can gladly defend the altruism of non-theists over theists. This thread is to take a more realistic approach to examining why atheists are less likely to be in jail than simply stating it is because of their atheism, I feel like using this statistic in such a way is tantamount to theists claiming atheists immoral because Stalin and Pol Pot were atheists.

I currently can think of three secular reasons why: More likely to use birth control, higher socio-economic levels than theists, prison structure.

1) The fact that atheists are more likely to use birth control than theists is perhaps the most significant factor. As presented by Steven D. Levitt's and Stephen J. Dubner's Freakonomics (I say presented because they were primarily citing others arguments for it), nationally legalizing abortion was the primary contributor to lower crime rates by the 90's. It is well known that many Christian organizations strongly oppose the use of birth control, which is why they have such higher rates of teen pregnancy. It is also well known that children growing up in an environment where they can't be properly provided for are much more likely to have a criminal future, just the kind of children those abortion hating Christian teens are likely to have. What happens when you combine these statistics? Significantly lower crime rates for communities more inclined to use birth control, e.g. less atheists in jail.

2) This is a pretty simple one:
   a) atheists are more likely to be at a higher socio-economic level than theists.
   b) people at a higher socio-economic level are less likely to commit crimes or at least crimes that send them to jail.
   c) less atheists in jail.

3) My prison structure hypothesis has much less support than the previous two factors I just provided, but I'm still willing to believe it contributes until shown otherwise. It goes something like this:
   a) One of the primary reasons people don't want to consider themselves atheists is for fear of coming out and being persecuted.
   b) Prison is one of the scariest settings you can be in, where belonging to a close knit social structure is important for survival.
   c) Because of these social pressures weighing down on inmates, the expression of atheism is much more likely to be suppressed.

I personally think these factors contribute much more to the jail statistics than any sort of moral high ground atheists might have (which I believe we do, but that's besides the point).

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / What's your religious position
« on: March 18, 2010, 09:21:29 PM »
This particular demographic has always seemed very secular, but I think its time to get the raw numbers.

Additional optional questions:

1) Have you ever had any doubts about your position?
2) Which is your least favorite religious position?
3) Do you believe the earth to be flat (Or anything other than the standard belief that it is a globe)?


If you are a Theist:
4) Do you share the same religion/denomination as your parents? If not, when did you decide upon your particular viewpoint?

If you are a Non-Theist:
4) Are your parents Non-Theists as well? If not, when did you decide upon your particular viewpoint?

If you are "Neither" Somehow??? (I'm pretty sure both pantheism as well as deism are included in theism, but you "non-religious" peoples are being gae):
Go catch a buttery or something


Myself:
1) Yes, but I doubt less and less now. Hopefully I will never be certain though.
2) Well its between Mormonism and Islam, but I think I'm gonna hafta go with Islam. Unless Westboro Baptist counts as a denomination
3) Nop
4) Both my parents are Catholics, but my mother is fringing on agnostic theism. I became an Atheist at about 16.

7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Forcing people to buy health insurance
« on: February 25, 2010, 04:56:53 PM »
How is it any more unconstitutional to force everyone to buy health insurance than it is to force everyone to pay for social security?

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Technology, Science & Alt Science / I'm a math noobzors
« on: February 11, 2010, 09:41:49 PM »
Can anyone show me how to integrate:
(1) 12sin((pi(x-8))/12)
and
(2) 100,000(1+sin((2pi(t-60))/365))????

9
The Lounge / Tom Bishop's intentions
« on: February 01, 2010, 12:51:30 AM »
So I think its pretty safe to say now that Tom argues for the sake of making people angry, not for the sake of legitimizing his point. You will see him pull stuff straight off websites to defend his arguments, that are clearly utter fail. In other threads, he will be backed into a corner and obviously just make bullshit up to defend something that couldn't be more clearly flawed.

Lots of those were created by Zetetic scientists.

It was the Wright Brothers who said:

    "Science theory held us up for years. When we threw out the science, started from experiment to experience, then we invented the airplane."

That quote was fabricated by, as was the idea behind that entire thread, previous president of the international flat earth society Charles K. Johnson. I mean really guys, isn't he just doing it for the lulz? I see no other purpose but pleasure.

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / How to assess when you're wrong.
« on: January 27, 2010, 10:52:03 PM »
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I shouldn't be an atheist. If I'm wrong, its pretty important that I should know-

But it seems unlikely that I'm going to change, considering how much evidence I have found in support of atheism. But all of that support could be wrong. It could just be the accumulation of countless misunderstandings, poor uses of logic and other such things. But at this point, how would I know?

When a Theist reads an atheist book, all they see is flaws. None of the arguments are taken as legitimate, or they are just seen as strawmen. This is the same for me when I read a Christian book (The Reason For God, by Timothy Keller).

When I debate with Theists, I can only see whats wrong with their argument, rarely my own. If I ever find a flaw in my logic, I will search for an atheist answer, but never a reply to that atheist answer.

This doesn't just apply to my atheism though, it applies to my liberalism as well, and many of my values.....

This kind of bias is so well set in everyone it seems. It is hard to believe that I might be wrong, but I might be.

Has anyone ever had any great change in ideologies? How did you do it? Why did you do it? What were you trying to do when it happened?

How is a person able to check their bias, unbiasedly?

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Bill's blathering is getting rusty imo
« on: January 26, 2010, 09:24:11 PM »


I can't believing he was trying to argue that it was a pro-life add, yet not an anti-pro choice add.... That is almost always implied and in any segment where Bill is speaking on pro-life issues he always proudly adopts an anti-pro choice position to go with it.....

"that's a beef with CBS" What? That was what the entire debate was over.....

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Bible Rifles
« on: January 18, 2010, 10:22:32 PM »
Blown a bit out of proportion of course, but still a well deserved spanking


14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / America's Future
« on: January 12, 2010, 02:46:14 PM »
By PZ Meyers

On Sunday, I was stuck on a long boring drive — there is no scenery between Winnipeg and Morris, only a pale gray void with wisps of snow blowing through it — and was thinking about some of the conversations I'd had the night before. I was a bit envious. My own upbringing in religion was rather tepid, an exposure to bland liberal Lutheranism of the Scandinavian Phlegmatic sect, and had no drama at all to it, and was more like a Unitarian Universalist church with a historical creed attached to it that no one cared much about. Yet here I'd been talking with ex-fundamentalist ex-Mennonites, people who'd had a religion that was like a hammer to the cranium. The fellow who had shown signs of thinking as a teenager, and whose older brother therefore schemed to do him a favor and kill him in his sleep before he became a hell-bound apostate ought to win some sort of prize.

So I was pondering why some faiths seem to be so bland and others so ferocious, and I had to think that, at least in Western countries, a period as a state religion had to have some moderating effect. My Swedish forebears, for instance, were mostly Catholic in the 15th century, and switched to Lutheran in the 16th. Why? Because they had the principle that whatever the faith of the king, that was the faith of the nation. That's a concept that's a little weird to people who have it dunned into them that their particular faith is the one true path to God and heaven, since apparently which faith is the right one can be changed over the course of a coronation. Sweden went through that switch, and not only that, but shortly afterwards Gustavus Adolphus hands people pikes and muskets, marches them off to Germany, and has them killing and being killed for their new version of God (and for mercantile interests in the Baltic states, but that probably wasn't played up among the troops much).

It had to instill a little cynicism in the people.

Anyway, I was just thinking that it sure would be nice if the US had an official state religion, just because it would be such an effective way of making religion irrelevant. However, we couldn't do it the old Swedish way, and make the religion of the president the state religion — our political campaigns are already too pious, and the thought of turning them into religious wars that made faith even more important was too much to bear. The big obstacle to establishing an American state religion (besides the first amendment, and the Republicans don't care about that anyway) is deciding which religion it would be. And that's where I had an epiphany.

Let's pick the official US state religion with a game show. Sure, it would be shallow, loud, flashy, and would pander to the lowest common denominator of the population…but can you imagine anything more American? And it would make money! Even more American!

We'd do it in a program that would air over the course of several months. In the first phase, we'd collect entrants; the larger sects, the Catholics, the Southern Baptists, the Mormons, the Episcopalians, etc., would of course get a spot just because of their numbers and popularity, but to be truly representative, a wide selection of smaller, edgier religions ought to get a shot, too. A panel of celebrity judges would travel to major American cities and have auditions, in which representatives of various faiths in the region would show up and give a brief spiel about their beliefs and put on a demonstration of what's so cool about their particular practices. They would be judged on entertainment value and local color, and only the best show would move on to the next level.

The celebrity judges would be important. The panel should consist of a curmudgeonly atheist who believes in nothing, a ditzy, New Agey bit of fluff who believes in everything, and some wobbly agnostic who doesn't know what to think. Christopher Hitchens must be the atheist judge; someone like Robert Wright or Ariana Huffington can be the ditz judge (Huffington would be excellent just for the accent); and the agnostic judge would be tougher, since they tend to be much more low profile, but perhaps we can just trawl a few bars for unemployed Ph.D.s in philosophy. All he has to do is bawl, "Why am I here?" now and then, so those qualifications should do.

The main competition would consist of multiple televised rounds. There would be a division of skills, so one round might be musical, with demonstrations of their singing or dancing or babbling ability; another might be on dogma, with succinct summaries of what their religion can do for and demands of the practitioner; there could be gladiatorial rounds, where top athletes of each religion pray for god's aid in sporting events, and the loser drops out and goes home. Some rounds would be judged by the celebrity panel, while others could be judged by call-in votes.

We could also have tests of power. At the beginning of the competition, each religion could be assigned by chance a dying child, and the adherents would be expected to pray mightily for their kid. This could lead to more drama — we might have occasional interruptions, as the announcer intones, "We are sorry to report that little Timmy Robinson has died. The Methodists have no power here, and will be going home." Conversely, if one of the children has a miraculous remission, the prayer team for that child could be automatically advanced to the next round.

You might argue that the atheists would have an edge, because instead of prayer they'd be sending money to the best doctors and hospitals and getting the child the best medical care possible. Atheism is not a religion, however, so they won't be in the competition.

Another concern you might have is that there is no way the contestants could be judged objectively. One property of religion is that it encourages tribal loyalty, so even if the gospel stylings of the African-American Baptist church have even the godless dancing in the aisles, all of the Catholics will still vote for the droning off-key old hymns of their congregation. That's OK! We should expect some bias in favor of the numerically superior dogmas, and it's fair that the more numerous faiths have an edge in becoming America's next religion. That's because the main competition will only serve to winnow down the contestants to a dozen or two, and the final winner will be determined entirely by a lottery. Knowing the American people, charismatic underdogs will make it to the final round alongside the stable favorites.

Think of the excitement, and the ratings, that the final show will get! Chits, each with the name and religious symbol of the surviving contestants, will tumble about in a basket, and then an attractive starlet with very large breasts will reach in, pull out one, and hand it to a bronzed macho star with very large teeth, who will make the final announcement: "America, we are a SCIENTOLOGY NATION!", or whatever religion wins.

Note that since we are a nation tolerant of many faiths, American citizens will not be required to convert to that faith. It just means that on all official pronouncements and legal documents, the government will declare itself officially an X nation, where X is whatever religion won. All opening prayers to congress will be delivered by a representative of that religion; all military chaplains will be required to be practitioners. You will also be able to sue all politicians and pundits who declare that America is a Christian or Judeo-Christian nation without specifying the winning faith, because obviously that is a slight to that triumphant religion.

There will also be a monetary gain. The winning religion should be granted a substantial sum of money, say $100 million dollars, to be used freely in any way they see fit: it can be used to repair decaying churches, buy air time for proselytizing ads, pay off lawsuits to parents of molested children, or even buy wetsuits and dildoes for the entire priesthood. We won't care, we won't pay any attention, it's simply their fairly earned winnings. Most importantly, as the official state religion, all of their activities will be tax exempt.

Oh, that was the sneaky part. All the loser religions will no longer be recognized by the government, and will lose all their tax exemptions. That's where we make the big profits off this scheme.

Just to be generous, though, there will be an easy loophole. Churches can freely convert to the new official religion and gain the tax exemption back. All those churches with only the vaguest theological foundation, and which are really just placeholders to service their leaders, will not be harmed in any way; Joel Osteen and Rick Warren will continue to rake in the moolah, even if it is as the Saddleback Church of the Sub-genius or as Lubavitcher Rabbi Joel Osteen.

Now wait! I'm not done! I had another epiphany that turns this whole idea into a major revelation of brilliant genius that will change the whole future of humanity.

We do this every year.

This is not a one shot deal that establishes one official American church for ever and ever. It's a process that we will go through every year. We will regularly change our state religion. No faith can slack off; they all have to muster their best game to serve their congregations and gather the talent and the votes to be competitive. It will all be very Darwinian.

But there's another cunning bit to the scheme. This is not a contest that will simply be won by whoever has the largest membership, so it won't lead to a single religion simply dominating every year, and strengthening its grip with each win. Because this is going through the most frivolous of media, making an appeal to popularity on the basis of short-attention-span glitz, there will be a definite edge given to novelty. The Red Queen hypothesis will apply, and we'll be churning through lots of religions, one after the other.

It's going to be great. We'll either turn religion into a trivia question, or we will select the most virulently appealing faith of all time into existence. Either way is going to be much more interesting than what we've got now.

We just have to persuade the government to try it.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Mathematical theorem vs. Conjecture
« on: December 28, 2009, 02:04:29 PM »
What makes a mathematical theorem more true than a mathematical conjecture? Pythagorean theorem vs. Goldbach's Conjecture....

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Is FE theory falsifiable?
« on: December 23, 2009, 07:22:05 PM »
Falsifiability (or refutability) is the logical possibility that an assertion can be shown false by an observation or a physical experiment.

The theory of evolution is an example of a theory that is falsifiable. If another theory for the change in organisms we see today, other than the change in the genetic material of a population of organisms through successive generations, was found and was itself falsifiable and accounted for all the evidences found supporting the theory of evolution and this theory could be directly observed to cause such change and have a reason for why macro evolution isn't from the change in genetic material, the theory of evolution would be falsified.

The Flat Earth Theory cannot be falsified though, because even when physical experiments have been done (e.g. space flight, airplane pictures showing curvature of the earth), these physical evidences have been claimed to be false, and have used the conspiracy-theory-gap to fill in the lack of evidence actually showing the contrary (very similar to the god of the gaps technique). There is no way to disprove that the earth is flat unless you use methodological naturalism, and if you do use that epistemology, it is clear that the earth is round.

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Flat Earth Q&A / Now how many of these theories are actually reasonable.
« on: December 23, 2009, 06:47:20 PM »
Its pretty apparent that not all FEers share the same ideas. So I was just wondering, how many of you FEers actually think that all these theories are viable? Or is even one viable?


(Taken from  Markjo's post)
1) That the FE is an infinite plane?

2) The celestial gears hypothesis?

3) The sub-heavens hypothesis?

4) The bendy light hypothesis?

5) The anti-moon/shadow object hypothesis?

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Easy Question
« on: December 20, 2009, 01:48:03 AM »
You entered a room in which a computer tells you that there is a box hidden somewhere. Then the computer asks you what is in the box. There is no way in which you can collect evidence about said box. Now this is really a futile question, because you have no description of the box other than its existence.

-First someone could say that certain things would not be in the box, such as a bed made of sleep or a one-dimensional cube, but that virtually anything that makes logical sense could be within the box.
-Next someone could say that a wooden spoon IS contained within the box.
-Last someone could say that a rock is not contained within the box.

Which of these statements seems most reasonable?

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The Lounge / I'm recanting all my trust in the RET
« on: December 15, 2009, 07:20:37 PM »
This video has opened my eyes...I can't believe modern science has tricked me for so long....


21
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Passing the health insurance bill.
« on: December 13, 2009, 07:09:11 PM »
Ok, for some strange reason I thought I actually knew how the United States government worked, but I'm so clusterfucking confused now.

So after a bill has passed from the house to the senate (which the HI bill already has), it is voted on whether or not it should go to the floor and you need at least 60 votes of approval in order to do so (which the HI bill already has). Now I thought that after the bill got the 60 votes to go to the floor, it also becomes filibuster-proof, but I keep hearing all this talk about different people threatening to filibuster the bill AFTER it has already gotten the 60 votes to go to the floor. So my question is, wtf did that 60 vote actually do, and how can people still filibuster the bill? Because from my viewpoint, the only thing the bill should require at this point is 50 votes (along with going through all those committees).

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Sometimes Bill just gets me to laugh so hard, I mean, you couldn't fabricate satire this good.



I love Christmas and I'm proud.

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The Lounge / Mormon chatting
« on: December 04, 2009, 05:45:46 PM »
chat.mormon.org

So fun

Do it

One of the missionary persons I talked to didn't know what young earth creationism is

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Flat Earth Debate / Coriolis effect
« on: December 02, 2009, 08:56:02 PM »
Not totally sure why I'm even posting this, because I already know the futility in making this arguments, but I think its because I would like to see a highly elaborate, totally bullshitted explanation of this.

-An oceanic gyre is any large-scale system of rotating ocean currents, particularly those involved with large wind movements. Gyres are caused by the Coriolis effect; planetary vorticity along with horizontal and vertical friction, which determine the circulation patterns from the wind curl (torque).

-Please give a better explanation for the existences of oceanic gyres.

-just fyi on trying to squeeze off a simple conspiracy claim here: there have been multiple historical accounts of the existence of the currents in these gyres.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Clearly Obama is doing a bad job
« on: November 18, 2009, 03:15:07 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/wall-street-profits-on-pa_n_361811.html

I just lol so much after hearing the evangelical-brainwashed conservatives at my school worrying that America's economy won't survive by 2012....

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Actual ad aired in Washington
« on: November 05, 2009, 10:24:34 PM »
A few of you prolly saw the clip of this on the Colbert Report.....Its funny because my teacher actually talked about the issue of the organization, as a PAC, preventing the names on their petition from being released, without actually knowing anything about the organization...When I told my teacher about this commercial the organization made, he actually lol'ed.

[Anti-gay marriage ad from Washington.]

Our position is not about hate, its about love. Its about having a true consideration for the next generations future; its about keeping the teaching of morals and preserving the most fundamental part of human relations, the original intent of marriage, ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN, no other way. Were not denying rights; we are rejecting an attempt to redefine marriage... In May of 2004, Gay marriage was legalized in Scandinavia..

What Happened..? Did you know... That year alone suicide rates doubled. The illegal drug rate increased 19 times. And to say the least the traditional picture of Marriage being One Man One Women was completely shattered. What about our country? Did you know..77% of ALL aids cases in the United States are related to homosexuality. Also, recent news reports indicate that the legalization of gay marriage will start a movement that will result in YOUR CHILDREN being taught about gay marriage as a normal form of life. Are we willing to let this happen? Whose future is really at stake?

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The Lounge / Getting my Eagle Scout rank
« on: October 31, 2009, 04:00:34 PM »
Soooo.... I'll be getting my Eagle Scout rank soon, all I have left to do is a board of review. The thing is, to be an eagle scout you need to have some sort of religion. When I first joined Boy Scouts I was a Christian, but I have moved on to atheism. So now that I have put so much time/effort into getting my Eagle scout, and considering how much I will need the money that the Eagle Scout scholarship will get me, how should I do this? Should I pretend like I'm the good Christian kid who just hasn't gone to church in awhile, or should I pretend to be the Hindu or Buddhist and hope that those interviewing me don't know enough about one of these religions to ask any deep questions about it.

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Friendly Debate
« on: October 24, 2009, 12:39:02 PM »
So, my Christian friend and I decided to have a friendly debate with a twist, he would play the atheist and I would play the Christian (whereas its normally vice-versa). I was wondering if any of you could help me with an argument that a Christian would present in response to this:

Question--How can you have morals if god is not providing them and the reasoning for them?

Response--Yes, atheists can have morals, because of the growth of civilization. When man was early in evolution it did not have morals. Men killed each other over nothing, men raped, stole, and did vile things, but over the course of time people came together in groups, realizing that they could not survive this way. They formed civilizations, collective labor, and storage of food. We can look back and see that the first laws such as the Hammurabi Code were forced upon the people. Over time the human action pattern changed.

Over time these laws have expanded, people were trained to think that such things that are not legal are not moral right. Government and collections of people have taught our race to react on impulses of "good". Now instead of doing the natural impulses of our bodies (greed, sexual desire, power) are put into check with the lessons of history and laws.

The Human brain is a highly evolved thing. We can adapt and change with our environment to make it best suitable for our race. We have been trained just as any other thing on this earth can be changed. This allows us to know good.

Does anyone have any ideas on how a Christian would respond to this?

29
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Weak Agnostic or Strong Agnostic
« on: October 20, 2009, 09:51:41 PM »
Please do not vote in this poll until at least reviewing a fairly legitimate definition of weak and strong agnosticism is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_atheism

The main reason I'm making this thread is to ask for a defense of strong agnostic, because I don't fully understand its justification. I myself am a weak agnostic (agnostic atheist to be exact?), but I think its more because the way I'm reading the arguments seem to make strong agnosticism seem close-minded? I'm not really sure.

How can a strong agnostic say "I cannot know whether a deity exists or not, and neither can you." It seems as though they are dismissing the possibility that a "godly figure" is in fact in existence and working through natural means rather than metaphysical ones. For all I know I'm a strong agnostic, but I think I may just need a more clear definition than the ones provided me so far.

30
I would like some examples please, and I'm too tired to search through all the results that come up to see if they are bullshitting me or really are people who changed from the position of disbelieving in god to having faith in him.

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