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Topics - Soze

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Suggestions & Concerns / FE Believers
« on: November 06, 2009, 11:04:04 AM »
I'm inclined to think that of few of them aren't but to recognize their positions, maybe we could rename it FE Proponents to extend the title to include all theorists?
Also, I wasn't planning on staying a regular forever, and I wouldn't mind becoming an official proponent. Anyways, for the purposes of this site, it seem like it makes more sense to state what your defending instead of why.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / What is beauty?
« on: September 28, 2009, 09:43:10 AM »
I want to hear a variety of definitions.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Euthanasia
« on: August 20, 2009, 09:34:49 AM »
Why not?

Technology, Science & Alt Science / .9999... = 1
« on: August 16, 2009, 08:44:30 AM »
It still does.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Abortion
« on: July 23, 2009, 06:03:55 PM »
Can anybody give me a nonreligious reason why it shouldn't be allowed at the discretion of the 'parent(s)'?

Philosophy, Religion & Society / More creationist stuff.
« on: July 21, 2009, 04:00:00 PM »
Assuming god is allegedly outside of our laws of physics, how does he create things?

Cause and effect are the roots of any system of laws of physics, and there must be a reason why they work. Does god have his own set of laws, or are his acts violating his own trials of causality? He must take action or some sort to cause creation, or it would be unintentional, right? Willing it, could be a cause in his set of laws... in which case he is confined to those laws. Having creation unfold without his intervention implies that he is not responsible.

Flat Earth Q&A / Flat Earth Believers Section
« on: July 20, 2009, 05:28:00 PM »
I can't post in that section. I assume it's intentional, but it makes me wonder why it simply isn't hidden from the public if it exists only for a select few?

The Lounge / Will it Blend?
« on: May 26, 2009, 10:41:08 PM »

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Religious Meaning of Life
« on: May 19, 2009, 12:53:57 PM »
To the majority of theists out there:
What gives God the right to give our lives' meaning? If we exist to worship God, why should he be the one to decide that?

1. Is it because he created us? Should a child lose the right to decide his own purpose, simply because of his origin?

2. Is it because he has more power than us? Sending us to hell if we don't worship him, is an appeal to militaristic authority and power. If someone points a gun at your head, they have power over what happens to you, but does that really justify what they demand?

3. Is it because he is smarter than us? Should we all blindly follow the instructions of anybody more intelligent than ourselves?

Am I missing an argument? I seriously want to know.

The Lounge / Going Rubik's Cube Crazy
« on: May 07, 2009, 07:52:48 PM »

Arts & Entertainment / Artwork
« on: April 30, 2009, 12:46:53 AM »

This is a poster design I have been working on. I'm looking for compositional suggestions.

Other people are welcome to post their artwork too.  :)


I will apologize right here and now for the convoluted thread that now appears to be locked for its misdirection.
Furthermore, I will attempt to stay close to topic and keep topic in mind for organizational purposes.  :)
This thread isn't directed specifically at Raist though he is welcome to join in, but it's really an open question I invite you all to consider.


I believe I can show you that it doesn't require intent.

I will start by examining something with intent. When someone designs a motorcycle, the design was probably made with intent to suit an overall purpose like transportation. The combustion engine drives pistons and turbines to create mechanical energy that drives other portions of the motorcycle in a useful fashion. Wheels spin, and by utilizing friction you move forward. WEeee.

But what is design? When someone builds a machine, the intent is usually a means toward a goal. It has to function. The design (the inherent physical characteristics of the subject) is incorporated in the function of the machine, because the functionality is the real focus here. By function, I am referring to the purpose that it serves. A gear in a machine has a function/purpose.

But what about things that have no designer?
If by some miracle a motorcycle falls together without a designer, including god, does it not have design? Does it not have function? I'd say the design is still there.

I believe that something can have design without being designed. Therefore, I would say that something can have a design without a designer's intent for the design. Since I don't believe in miracles, the motorcycle example doesn't do justice.

Let's return to an example that I feel does demonstrate my point. Consider a crude baseball bat. It is a simpler machine, and also much easier to imagine it occurring naturally since it is just a thick wooden stick, than a complex machine like a motorcycle.

This stick can have many purposes because it has many inherent applicable functions. Because it is so simple, it is not really specialized to perform any one function. Its possibilities are basically endless, and hitting baseballs is just one of many functions, (no wife beating jokes today, sorry). These functions are a direct result of the physical form, and can be seen as what something "can to effectively do."


Let's suspend our beliefs in god(s) for a moment, if you haven't already, just to examine some functions:  ;)

  • A cell's mitochondria has a purpose of generating the majority of ADT energy.
  • A cell's lysosomes clean up worn out cell materials.
  • A cell's nucleus protects and stores the DNA.

I don't claim that some authority (including God) specifically deemed each of these to have functions, but those functions are simply what they are built for. Muscle tissue was not necessarily created by a designer, but it still has a function to expand and contract.

If the baseball bat was wasn't designed by someone with intent but simply formed by the mechanical forces of nature, I would still find it useful and efficient for bashing things. It effectively and efficiently uses leverage to transfer force, but it doesn't do anything outside of its design capacity, like say cure cancer. It obviously isn't specialized in this fashion.

My question to you is, do you really need intent to have design? I want to hear your reasons.  :)

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