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Topics - Cartesian

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Flat Earth General / A lie 9+ years in the making
« on: July 14, 2015, 03:08:52 AM »
New Horizons is on its closest approach to Pluto and its moons. Why would anyone spend 9+ years to create a such elaborate lie? Why would anyone lie about Pluto's distance of 3 billion miles from Earth? Why would lie about a spacecraft that can only travel that distance in 9.5 years?

20th Jan 2006:
14th Jul 2015:
Its position:

The last minute of June 2015 will have 61 seconds in it.

A leap second is a one-second adjustment that is occasionally applied to UTC/GMT in order to keep its time of day close to the mean solar time. The Earth's rotation speed varies in response to climatic and geological events, leap seconds are irregularly spaced and unpredictable. Since this system of correction was implemented in 1972, 25 such leap seconds have been inserted.

Therefore, leap second proves that it is the Earth which rotates and not the Sun nor other celestial objects.

Flat Earth General / Is horizon always at eye level?
« on: May 17, 2015, 12:20:15 PM »
If the earth is flat, the horizon will always be at eye level (when you look forward at an angle perpendicular to your own stature). And if the earth is round, the horizon is always below the eye level however, standing on the ground this angle is so small to be noticeable therefore you need a tool like theodolite to measure this elevation angle. Unless you're a surveyor, theodolite doesn't always come handy. Fortunately, if you have a smartphone there are plenty of apps like one below for Android which does the same job:

which gives you a display like this:

The elevation angle is on the right hand side of the display. Left hand side shows how tilted is your phone. If you don't want to show your location, just turn of your GPS before taking a screenshot. It's now very easy to see whether the horizon is at or below eye level, the higher you get the more below eye level it gets if the earth is round.

In this thread, I'd like to discuss the direction from which the sun would rise on a flat earth. Please try your best not to troll or derail it.

First, let's take an observer watching a sunrise in London during the equinox (around 20 March or 22 September). On that day, the sun rises at around 0600 GMT (and sets at around 1800 GMT). And as we all know, at the equinox the sun rises due east (exactly east) no matter where you live on Earth (except at poles).

But what would happen on a flat earth? The observer would see the sun rising due north east as shown in the below drawings:


Now let's calculate the sun elevation angle during sunrise:
  • The distance between the London observer and North Pole is ~2600 miles.
  • The distance between North Pole and the point below the sun at sunrise is ~6200 miles.

Therefore, the distance between the London observer and the point below the sun during sunrise is √(26002 + 62002) or ~6700 miles. Knowing that on flat earth the sun altitude is about 3000 miles, the sun elevation angle during sunrise as seen by the London observer at the equinox would be as shown in the below diagram:

Yes the sun would rise at ~24° on a flat earth (and not at 0° or on the horizon)!

So if Earth were flat:
  • How can the sun rise due east at the equinox?
  • How can the sun always rise on the horizon?

EDIT: changed the title

Flat Earth General / SpaceX to Land Rocket on Ocean Platform Tomorrow
« on: January 05, 2015, 10:29:37 AM »
Unlike the previous missions, SpaceX will be doing something unusual with the main component of its Falcon 9 rocket during tomorrow's flight: after its job is finished, the company will try to land the rocket vertically on an uncrewed barge floating in the Atlantic Ocean, 200 miles east of Jacksonville, Florida, a few minutes later. The chance of success is not great but if it is successful, it will revolutionize the space flight industry as it will dramatically drive down the cost of space travel.

The launch is scheduled for 0620 am EST (1120 GMT) tomorrow, you can watch it live from the provided links.

Flat Earth General / Build Your Own Satellite
« on: December 19, 2014, 09:50:53 AM »
Now you can build your own satellite and launch it to LEO (+/- 600 km). The base price is $6k or $35k including launch to LEO. It seems that NASA will launch it for free if your project is interesting, so it would save you a quite substantial amount of money if you are creative.

It's up to you what you want the satellite to do as long as you can fit the equipment within the size of the satellite. You can for example incorporate a camera to the satellite and program it to send the pictures to you via a radio downlink. This may be the cheapest and the most definitive way to prove the shape of the Earth.

So FE'rs, let's crack on!!

Suggestions & Concerns / Slow website
« on: November 30, 2014, 11:02:28 AM »
Hi all, I haven't visited this site for ages. I noticed that now it is much slower to navigate than before. Or is it just me?

The Lounge / The 1000th post!
« on: October 02, 2013, 05:31:59 AM »
I have just noticed that the counter on the left said 999, I can't believe that this is my 1,000th post. Yay!!! Thank you all for helping me getting here.

Does it make me less of a n00b now? :D

Flat Earth Debate / Day and night on a flat earth
« on: September 27, 2013, 06:39:37 AM »
I hope that this thread can finally answer how exactly FE sun shines its light to create day on one part and night on the other part of a flat earth. I have heard one FE theory suggesting that the sun is spherical but somehow acts like a spotlight to explain why it looks round during the day and is not visible at night.

In RET, the Earth's rotation axis is tilted 23.5 degrees from the plane of its orbit around the sun which creates seasons while Earth is orbiting around the sun.

Below shows how Earth receives the sun's light on June and December solstices. in June, the northern hemisphere receives more sun light than the southern hemisphere creating summer time in the northern hemisphere and winter in the southern hemisphere. In December, it's the other way around. But regardless of the time of the year, one half of the spherical earth is in day time while the other half is in night time. Half earth is day and half earth is night. Half and half.


There are many sites that show day night map available on Internet. For example you can check what part of the world in in day time or and night time depending on the day of the year and the time of day in

I tried to project day and night on a flat earth map depending on the month (March, June, September and December). The below sketches show the sun light (the yellow highlight) as perceived by a flat earth in function of the time of the year.

We can see than the shape of the sun light on earth is different depending on the month. In June, the sun is nearer to the north pole and shines in perfect circle on earth giving longer daytime to the northern part. This is probably what is referred to as "spotlight" by some FEers. But in March or September, the sun doesn't shine like a spotlight anymore. In December, it's getting worse. I cannot even find a word to describe how the sun can light the outermost of the disk while creating a dark spot in the middle.

Is this the death of the FE spotlight sun?

I used monopolar model for this work. When I get more time, I'll include the bipolar model too. I have the impression bipolar model will be even weirder than the monopolar one.

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Don't eat and drive
« on: September 19, 2013, 06:03:23 AM »
I thought I would share this with you

A 61-year-old man found himself getting drunk without ever drinking alcohol because he had brewer's yeast in his gut. Basically, whenever he ate any carbs, the man's intestinal tract would start turning that into beer and make him drunk. He had a brewery in his belly.

Flat Earth Q&A / Voliva
« on: September 16, 2013, 01:28:30 AM »
Did Voliva write a book? Is it possible to read it online?

Flat Earth General / Creationism/Evolutionism in relation to the earth shape
« on: September 14, 2013, 03:24:25 AM »
Creationist refers to those who believe that Earth and life on it were specially created by God rather than naturalistic means, whereas, evolutionist refers to those who believe that the theory of evolution is the best explanation for the development of life on Earth. I am wondering whether there is any relationship between two different beliefs and the belief on the Earth's shape. For that I made this simple survey. The survey will take less than one minute to complete and your participation is anonymous.

Thanks in advance.

Flat Earth Debate / The Sun is actually only 700 miles away
« on: September 04, 2013, 07:43:13 AM »
According to this sacred text, in 1870 Rowbotham conducted an experiment to measure the distance of the sun. He arrived to a conclusion that the sun was ........ only 700 miles above his earth!!! But he didn't stop there. He also worked out that at the time of his experiment (July 13th), the sun was above Angoulême, France, 400 miles south of London. Was it really? Nonsense!!! Angoulême is at latitude 45° north and the sun never wanders above 23.5° N. People in Angoulême has never had the sun overhead. Ever!!! I am sure he never went to France to double check his claim. Or maybe he didn't know that Angoulême was only 400 miles south of London.

Oh well. One thing is certain, Rowbotham has made a ridiculously big mistake.

I extracted the method of his experiment and the associated pictures below.
The distance from London Bridge to the sea-coast at Brighton, in a straight line, is 50 statute miles. On a given day, at 12 o'clock, the altitude of the sun, from near the water at London Bridge, was found to be 61 degrees of an arc; and at the same moment of time the altitude from the sea-coast at Brighton was observed to be 64 degrees of an arc, as shown in fig. 58 (left figure below). The base-line from L to B, 50 measured statute miles; the angle at L, 61 degrees; and the angle at B, 64 degrees. In addition to the method by calculation, the distance of the under edge of the sun may be ascertained from these elements by the method called "construction." The diagram, fig. 58, is the above case "constructed;" that is, the base-line from L to B represents 50 statute miles; and the line L, S, is drawn at an angle of 61 degrees, and the line B, S, at an angle of 64 degrees. Both lines are produced until they bisect or cross each other at the point S. Then, with a pair of compasses, measure the length of the base-line B, L, and see how many times the same length may be found in the line L, S, or B, S. It will be found to be sixteen times, or sixteen times 50 miles, equal to 800 statute miles. Then measure in the same way the vertical line D, S, and it will be found to be 700 miles. Hence it is demonstrable that the distance of the sun over that part of the earth to which it is vertical is only 700 statute miles. By the same mode it may be ascertained that the distance from London of that part of the earth where the sun was vertical at the time (July 13th, 1870) the above observations were taken, was only 400 statute miles, as shown by dividing the base-line L, D, by the distance B, L. If any allowance is to be made for refraction--which, no doubt, exists where the sun's rays have to pass through a medium, the atmosphere, which gradually increases in density as it approaches the earth's surface--it will considerably diminish the above-named distance of the sun; so that it is perfectly safe to affirm that the under edge of the sun is considerably less than 700 statute miles above the earth.


Suggestions & Concerns / doesn't work
« on: September 03, 2013, 02:20:38 AM »
Has anyone noticed that or gives 403 Forbidden error? The forum works fine though.

Suggestions & Concerns / Accessing the forum using an app
« on: August 31, 2013, 06:25:01 AM »
Is there already an app that I can use to access this forum from my mobile? I am using Android. Most of times, it is not very convenient to use browser on a small screen. There are several forum reader apps and some of them are free but I cannot find one that can read TFES forum yet. I believe that this forum is powered by Simple Machines Forum 2.0.4 and it seems that Tapatalk has a plugin that can make this forum readable from a Tapatalk reader.

Flat Earth General / Do you really believe in FE or ????
« on: August 30, 2013, 03:40:54 AM »
I am really curious to know whether you, the flat earth supporters here really believe that this Earth is flat or you just try to build the most plausible hypothesis that can explain phenomenon around you if the Earth were flat?

Flat Earth Debate / Breaking news: Satellites do exist !!!
« on: April 10, 2013, 05:12:02 AM »
FEers don't believe in satellites as the existence of satellites can be used to disprove that the earth is flat . Satellites can take pictures of a round earth and FEers don't like to see them. For FEers, those pictures are fabricated. Geostationary satellites are even worse. In order for an object to be geostationary, the object must orbit around the earth at the same angular velocity as earth's rotation and at a certain altitude above the equator such that the centrifugal force due to the orbital movement is equal to the gravitational force.

An object cannot orbit a flat earth while remaining stationary above it. Furthermore, geostationary orbit is at 22,000 miles from earth, way above the FE sun. So satellite existence simply doesn't fit into FE model.

FEers say GPS works based on Loran (LOng RAnge Navigation), a terrestrial radio navigation system. Radio can travel long distance in FE model because the earth is flat. FEers also say that satellite TV works based on transmission towers. Dishes don't get signal from a geostationary satellite but rather from a very tall tower somewhere.

But how tall can these towers be? And where are they exactly located? Before answering my questions, I will show you some pictures taken in some places near the equator for you to ponder.

Everyone who lives where I come from is used to this kind of scenery. We all believe that satellites do exist since birth because the proof is everywhere around us. So yes we are all born REers.

So there you are and I guess now it's time for me to listen to you :)

EDIT 28/08/2013: Thank you for all of you who have participated and those who have attempted to give explanation. For others, you are more than welcome to read through pages of comments posted here so far but I'd also like to provide below a summary of what have been discussed. By this summary, at least I expect you to avoid double post, or to complete a half-baked hypothesis proposed by others.

Only two reasonable hypothesis have been proposed so far by FE proponents:
  • Some sort of stratellites exist. They are caught up in the wake of the UA, causing them to circle the Earth just as the celestial objects. Flaw: the dishes don't move so those stratellites don't circle the Earth neither. They are stationary. Unanswered questions from this hypothesis include why they don't circle the Earth like other celestial objects and why they have to be above the equator (and most of the time above the ocean)
  • Equatorial towers sending the signals upward and to get the signals bounced back by ionosphere. Flaw: there is what we call critical angle and critical frequency. Only the lower end of HF signals (in the order of MHz) can be bounced back to Earth by the atmosphere. The higher the frequency the lower the incidence angle has to be for the signal to be bounced back. Moreover, those dishes are designed for GHz signals, way above bounceable HF signals. One unanswered question from this hypothesis is that in most cases those towers would have to be in the middle of the ocean.

I really hope that one of you can give at least one flawless hypothesis for the benefits of other flat earthers. I do not include baseless arguments in the list above. They don't count as hypothesis as they simply fail observation such as
  • Those dishes are rain water collector. → the photos show dishes which are clearly made of meshed material
  • Those dishes are solar power dishes. → solar power dishes are always shiny to reflect solar radiation
  • The feedhorn of the dishes are actuality tiny black holes used as "light magnets" to pull signals from space. → you don't observe anomaly around the feedhorn
  • And finally, satellites simply don't exist without any further explanation. → this is an attitude which I cannot accept in this thread

EDIT 29/08/2013: The new readers may find that some passages are difficult to follow. This is because one poster, sceptimatic, has decided for some reasons unknown to me to remove all his posts from this thread. Although most, if not all, of his posts are generally low content but this irrational deletion makes some conversations -- especially those that replied to him without quoting -- are hard to understand.

I apologize for this but it was out of my control.

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