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Flat Earth Debate / Trip to antarctica

« on: August 13, 2008, 04:44:02 PM »

Hi there folks - I've introduced myself in a few threads by now, i'm a meteorologist from new zealand, working for the National Metservice http://www.metservice.co.nz/default/index.php dealing specifically with adverse weather patterns emerging over the antarctic that may be troublesome to various southern hemisphere nations.

Since joining this forum, i've opted to go on one of my department's surveying trips to Antarctica in December, we will be departing from Christchurch , New Zealand, landing in scott base, antarctica. Our team will be releasing a series of weather balloons on a regular vector from Scott Base within new zealand antarctic territory, over the south pole, into Norwegian antarctic territory (details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System ) so as to better predict hazardous weather patterns in the southern hemisphere. Being December, we will be in 24 hour sunlight, which will be quite an adjustment to the system, as will leaving my family behind for several weeks, which has been the reason i've been reluctant to go on any survey trips thus far, but i'm told they are commonplace and hazard free.

I post this, because i'd like to take any questions and queries from the FE society with me, regarding the ice wall, or the continuity of the surface of the earth over the south pole.

My theory is that the FE society wouldn't exist if there wasn't some search for truth or clarification in mind, i hope to offer than to any who care to inquire.

Thanks for your time.

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Flat Earth Debate / Simple Proof

« on: August 11, 2008, 10:11:27 PM »

hello society members and forum trolls alike.

like many i found my way to this forum from the recent BBC article, and rather than being skeptical of a notion that seems absurd to the average educated person, i chose to approach it sensibly. i am a RE'er and rather than change anyone's mind i hope to respectfully add something to this debate that shouldn't provoke flames from either side.

Firstly, I'm from New Zealand, and I doubt you will ever find a FE'er from the southern hemisphere, if indeed there is such a thing. The FE theory seems reasonable from the perspective of a northern hemisphere observer, but once you consider the perspective of those from 'down under' things start going a bit spherical.

I will presume for a moment that the basic understanding of FE theory is that the earth is flat, rather than spherical, and the wide held view of Antarctica is false, in it's place there is a ring of ice around the outside edge of the earth.
Firstly, i will admit that scenario is perhaps a reasonable conclusion from a northern hemisphere perspective, but there are some basic fundamental issues observing from the southern hemisphere.

Problem 1: Stars that appear to be above the south pole: no matter where in the world they are observed from. If I, here in New Zealand look south, i observe the Southern Cross (a constellation that decorates my nations flag). However, on a trip to south america, i felt a great sense of peace when looking south and seeing the very same constellation. In a flat earth scenario, this is impossible, the observer in south america would be looking off the opposite edge of the disc, yet in a round earth scenario, both observers would be looking toward the same point in space, seeing the same constellation, as is the case. I'm afraid unless the very heavens are in on the joke, our sky would indicate we inhabit a sphere.

Problem 2: Flight time. If indeed New Zealand and South America are on distant edges of a great disc, i should have flown over most of the surface of the disc to get there, however, it was a much shorter flight, across the pacific ocean, stopping in beautiful Samoa. I'm afraid there simply isn't a plane in existence that could make that distance in that time, unless of course, my pilot was in on the conspiracy too.

Problem 3: Weather patterns. I work for the meteorological service here in New Zealand, and most of our weather results from the cold air to our south, part of my job is tracking weather in the Southern Ocean to detect storms before they are a hazard to New Zealand. It is typical that i would observe anticyclones that move from one side of Antarctica to the other, before heading north toward my hazard area. This poses a number of awkward questions to the FE theorist;
how am i getting that imagery without readings from the satellite above the pole, running software my department developed?
If indeed someone created a device to give me false information, how does it always relay the weather correctly?
What are my son and I observing when we watch the satellite passing over us in the night sky, on precisely the orbit it was designed to be, through my telescope?
As i watch a storm front move over the south pole, how is it moving from one edge of the giant disc to the other instantaneously and seamlessly?

Problem 4: Circumnavigation of Antarctica is commonplace, and takes an impossibly short time, given a flat earth theory, the time taken is only possible if indeed the south pole is a single point, on a sphere. Feel free to book your trip here: http://www.condorjourneys-adventures.com/antarctica_cruise5.asp Consider it perhaps as commonplace a tourist destination for New Zealander's as Alaska would be to US citizens.

In conclusion, I am a well traveled citizen of the southern hemisphere, and indeed the world, i won't argue astrophysics with you, only the real world as it appears from a number of perspectives - my job is to observe meteorological phenomena over the south pole, and from my various views i have only seen overwhelming evidence toward the theory that the earth is a sphere, and what i'm prepared to say is a certainty that the south pole is a single point. in particular, i consider the observation of southern stars from places in the southern hemisphere as being inarguable.

I would like to finish my asking one more question - if you observer the earth to be flat, because it looks flat where you are... ask yourself if it doesn't look like the surface of an 80,000km diameter sphere. That would look pretty flat to one stationary man. You simply have to move the man to see what else is there.

I wish you all the best of luck in your endevours.