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Topics - SomeRandomPerson

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Flat Earth Debate / Simulations of flat Earth model and globe model
« on: July 11, 2018, 03:09:58 AM »
I found a website which has simulations for both the globe and flat Earth model.
http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?blog=list&tag=FlatEarth

It has the dome model as flat Earthers claim it to be. You can play around with it and see how the moon and the sun behave in your dome model.
http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Flat+Earth+Dome+Model

It also has a comparison of the horizon. You can change a lot of settings for both the globe and the flat Earth model, including refraction, viewing height, distance of objects, and compare them.
http://walter.bislins.ch/bloge/index.asp?page=Flat%2DEarth%3A+Finding+the+curvature+of+the+Earth

I think you might at least enjoy the flat Earth part.

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I made a short comparison about the cost, effort and benefits of lying about the shape of the Earth

NASA:

1) The number and details of sources supporting a spherical Earth.
For a spherical Earth you find thousands of sources from many different people from all over the world. Many of which are in great detail.

2) Explanations for many phenomena about Earth the universe and so on.
Science tries to explain everything. If you ask scientists a question, the try to find the best fitting answer. Also all their answers are supported by evidence, calculations and so on. In case that they find contradictions (which happens frequently), they look into it, look for mistakes in their model and update it. With a bit of research you can find a paper for pretty much anything in great detail.

3) Photos from space.
I know you don't believe in neither space travel nor photos. Still there are tens of thousands. NASA alone has more than 28,000 photos and videos about Earth.
https://images.nasa.gov/search-results?q=earth&page=1&media=image,video&yearStart=1920&yearEnd=2018

Before you try to prove the photos to be fake, read the description. For example:
https://images.nasa.gov/details-PIA18033.html
NASA clearly states that this photo is a montage.
Quote
Behold one of the more detailed images of the Earth yet created. This Blue Marble Earth montage shown above -- created from photographs taken by the Visible/Infrared Imager Radiometer Suite (VIIRS) instrument on board the new Suomi NPP satellite -- shows many stunning details of our home planet. The Suomi NPP satellite was launched last October and renamed last week after Verner Suomi, commonly deemed the father of satellite meteorology. The composite was created from the data collected during four orbits of the robotic satellite taken earlier this month and digitally projected onto the globe. Many features of North America and the Western Hemisphere are particularly visible on a high resolution version of the image. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA18033
By proving that it's a montage you are just proving that NASA is telling the truth about the photo.

If you try to disprove photos, try this one.
https://images.nasa.gov/details-PIA00123.html
Quote
This color image of the Earth was obtained by NASA’s Galileo spacecraft early Dec. 12, 1990, when the spacecraft was about 1.6 million miles from the Earth. http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA00123
As stated by NASA that photo is a single picture. By the way it's not CGI, that I can assure you. CGI technology wasn't advanced enough in 1990 to create a picture like that. For some reason I expect you to say: "It wasn't created in the nineties. That's just a lie to confuse you."
Knowing that you don't like NASA, here are some galleries by ROSCOSMOS (the Russian space agency).
http://en.roscosmos.ru/309/

4) Cost and effort of lying.
NASA would have to fake all their more than 140,000 pictures (those include pictures of other planets, stars, nebulae etc...) taken from space. They also have to build rockets and other spacecraft some of which you can find in various museums. They actually have to work, because you can watch the launches. They would also have to fake anything related to space or Earth explorations of the last 2,000 years. Anyone who has anything to do with those things, would need to be kept quiet. Every telecommunication company using satellites, anyone traveling the world with planes or boats, anyone who has ever been to Antarctica, every other space agency, etc...
Here you can find an overview of NASA's budget and what they are using it for.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/nasa_fy_2019_budget_overview.pdf
Read it first, before complaining about it. NASA is very open with their research, many things are publicly available.
If that's not enough they also have a more detailed version.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/fy19_nasa_budget_estimates.pdf

5) Benefits of lying.
There is no benefit to fake it. The costs would just outmatch any kind of benefit they could make. If NASA is doing some kind of secret project, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to simply deny it and use their resources for that secret project instead of faking space travel. Additionally there would be no need to lie about the shape of Earth or fake space travel, to get some resources.


Flat Earth society:

1) The number and details of sources supporting a flat Earth.
There aren't many sources. Most evidence is only done by a few people and are very vague. Even wikipedia is more detailed than those sources. Some things don't even have evidence at all. For example the ice wall, the dome or that shadow object you use for the lunar eclipse. No flat Earther has ever gone to Antarctica or the edge of your world and written a report about it. I asked that question before. The reply I got, was someone asking me if I have gone there. I haven't gone there myself, but there are people who have gone there and wrote a report about it, took photos etc... The flat Earther talking about Antarctica or your ice wall don't even claim to ever have gone there.
Look through your own sources and think, if you would accept such a source as evidence for a spherical Earth. I looked through your library, and all of those books can be made up by a high school student.

2) Explanations for phenomena.
Flat Earth lacks quite a lot of explanations. The explanations you have are often contradicting observations. For example the lunar eclipse.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Lunar_Eclipse
In your explanation you need a shadow object, which has never been observed. The explanation that the shadow object can't be seen, because it orbits close to the sun, contradicts the observations of Venus and Mercury.
The lunar phases are also a contradiction. In your model it's possible to see the moon from different sides depending on your location, resulting in different phases. Yet observations show that the moon phases are the same independent of your location.

3) You don't have any photos from space at all, but since don't believe in photos anyway, it doesn't really matter.

4) Cost and effort to fake evidence.
You barely have any costs at all. The only things you do is observing and coming up with explanations. You don't even bother to update your explanations, since you simply say that every contradiction is a lie. Additionally you often don't even explain, why the contradiction is wrong. Instead you just ask questions about the spherical Earth, which by the way most of the time can and have been answered even though you simply ignore the answer. As mentioned before, some things (ice wall, dome) are claimed without any kind of observation.

5) Benefits of claiming the Earth to be flat.
By convincing people to believe that the Earth is flat, you can gain new members. Those members pay a membership fee, generating money for the flat Earth society. If there are more ways to make money, feel free to add them. Since your costs are rather low, you don't need much to make a profit.

By saying that everything given for a spherical Earth is fake, you are just proving point 4 of my reasons against a flat Earth.

Conclusion:
The flat Earth society has it a lot easier to lie, and lying provides you with more benefits than it does for NASA.

It's not evidence about the shape of the Earth, it's just shows that flat earth society is more likely to lie. Ask yourselves why do you believe the people claiming that a spherical Earth is fake?

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Flat Earth Debate / Sun path
« on: June 22, 2018, 02:19:55 PM »
It's summer right now, so the sun would be in the north right now according to the flat Earth model, right? So if you live south of the arctic circle, you would see it in the north at noon, right? If you live north of the equator and south of the arctic, where do you see the sun? Go outside and observe the sun. According to my observations it appears in the south at noon. How is that possible on a flat Earth?

Do the observations yourselves, since you don't believe me anyway.

Wikipedia has an explanation for that on a spherical Earth. I know you don't believe in Wikipedia, but for this purpose it's good enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_path

4
Flat Earth Debate / Antarctica
« on: June 18, 2018, 07:56:16 AM »
Has any flat Earther ever gone to Antarctica? If not, why? Is it because of soldiers guarding it? If none of you have ever gone there, why do you think there would be soldiers?
You can't use the Antarctic treaty as argument for that claim.
Quote
Antarctica shall be used for peaceful purposes only. There shall be prohibited, inter alia, any measures of a military nature, such as the establishment of military bases and fortifications, the carrying out of military maneuvers, as well as the testing of any type of weapons.
https://www.nsf.gov/geo/opp/antarct/anttrty.jsp
If you claim that this treaty is a lie, then what is the real one and where the heck did you find it?

If you need evidence that you are actually in Antarctica, look for a colony of Emperor Penguins for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_penguin

Flat Earthers are able to go to the Arctic, so some of you should also be able to go to Antarctica. Don't make up excuses that it's impossible, you can't know that if no one of you actually tried it. Even on a flat Earth it's possible to reach your ice wall. Also trying and failing doesn't mean it's impossible. Most inventions for example failed at the beginning or were thought to be impossible. For instance it was believed that heavier than air aircraft are impossible, yet we now have planes.

You can book a cruise to Antarctica. There is certainly someone of you able to afford it.
http://www.antarcticatravels.com/en/antarctica/classic-antarctica/16,classic-antarctica/
https://oceanwide-expeditions.com/antarctica/cruises

Evidences that you are actually in Antarctica are a 24h day in summer (summer in Antarctica obviously) and emperor penguins or other wildlife native to Antarctica.

Here is a list of expeditions to Antarctica showing that there are people exploring it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Antarctic_expeditions
I know you are just going to say those are fake or something like that. For that reason one of you should go there a make a report. Best if you update the report daily, in case you disappear (which I doubt is going to happen, but you claim that NASA or whoever would stop you) we at least know when and where.

You are either going to prove that the ice wall exists or that Antarctica is a continent with a 24h day during summer, destroying your ice wall and the flat Earth with it.

If there is a flat Earther who traveled there and returned, I would like to talk to them. If there is one who disappeared, what's their name, when and where did they disappear?

5
Flat Earth Debate / Defend your model
« on: May 14, 2018, 11:48:28 AM »
I found a YouTube video made by GreaterSapien. He asks 11 questions to flatearthers.

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Question 1: Where is Venus right now?
Question 2: Why do the sun and the moon rise and set the way they do?
Question 3: Why does daylight in Earth have the pattern it does?
Question 4: What holds the sun and moon in place and moves them?
Question 5: Why do you see the same face and phase of the moon no matter where you are?
Question 6: Why does a lunar eclipse happen? How does the Earth's shadow go across the face of the moon? If it's not the Earth shadow, what is it?
Question 7: How does a solar eclipse happen?
Question 8: Why do the sun and moon have spherical shapes?
Question 9: What powers the sun?
Question 10: Why has no one gone to the other side of Earth?
Question 11: Where is a definitive model of the flat earth system?

In this video the flatearther TheMorgile "answers" the questions. Caution: high chance of facepalming.
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In short his answers are: "It's irrelevant, we only need to prove that Earth has no curvature."

For comparison the answers given by the current models.

Question 1:
https://www.solarsystemscope.com/

Question 2:
https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question14.html

Question 3:
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Question 4:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_System

Question 5:
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Question 6:
See previous answer.

Question 7:
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Question 8:
See question 4.

Question 9:
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermonuclear_fusion

Question 10:
In the current model, they did.

Question 11:
For the Earth alone, you could use Google Earth as model, or a globe.
For the solar system:
https://www.solarsystemscope.com/

So I ask you to answer those questions. But first let see what your websites say.
https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Flat_Earth_Wiki

Question 2: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Setting_of_the_Sun

Question 5: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Phases_of_the_Moon

Question 6: https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Lunar_Eclipse
Quote
The shadow object is never seen because it orbits close to the sun. As the sun's powerful vertical rays hit the atmosphere during the day they will scatter and blot out nearly every single star and celestial body in the sky. We are never given a glimpse of the celestial bodies which appear near the sun during the day - they are completely washed out by the sun's light.
That contradicts the observations of Venus and Mercury. The shadow object also can't be Venus or Mercury, they simply appear too small.

Question 10:
Quote
Is There An Edge To The Earth?
The Flat Earth Society, along with previous notable flatists such as Samuel Shenton and S. Rowbotham, believe there is no end to the Earth and that it continues indefinitely. The only edge to the earth is the one you are standing on. Some math describing this can be found in our blog article The Mathematics of an Infinite Earth

For the other questions, I couldn't even find an answer.

Some other videos to enjoy.
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So flatearthers defend your model. To make it clearer, I'm asking you to show me that your model works. I'm not asking for you to ask questions about the spherical Earth.

I hope that inspires some flatearthers to at least look for answers in your own model.

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