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Messages - mbczion

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1
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 02:39:18 AM »
Another thing you won't see on BBC "honest" reporting:

http://israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=109193

You see, about 25% of Israelis are Arab; only about 75% of us are "bloodlusting Jews", so there are "good" Israelis being killed by these missles too.  Hezbollah's missles do not differentiate between Jew and Arab....

And Hadera and Tiberias are NOT on the northern border of Israel, but DEEP inside Israel:

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/il.htm

So, tell BBC they can also take that to the bank....

2
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 02:22:29 AM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "mbczion"

Lebanon is invading us


Have Lebanese or Hezbollah troops entered Israeli territory?
Then I'd say you aren't being invaded.


They don't have the guts to enter Israeli territory.  That is why they resort to indiscriminately lobbing bombs into our cities, while hiding behind their own civilians.  

And what?  The Japanese did NOT enter American territory in 1941.  They just crashed their planes into Pearl Harbor.  So maybe America wasn't invaded by the Japanese?


Again, have troops entered your territory?
2 soldiers were kidnapped, you started airstrikes and invading Lebanon, and they started firing rockets.
At no time has Lebanon or Hezbollah invaded Israel.

It sure sounds nice when trying to justify Israel's actions but.


but....

I suppose your right; since no "troops" have entered our territory, we should just sit and take the hundreds of missles per day raining on our cities :roll:  Your logic is on the verge of sounding like qwerty logic....

And no, actually for the last six years, since we have pulled out of Lebanon, Hezbollah has had ample time to stock their missles (they are estimated to have another 10,000 in their possession).  They used the kidnapped 2 soldiers as a pretext.

Also, the withdrawal from Gaza has clearly encouraged Hezbollah in the North that terror pays off....Hamas in Gaza took their cue from the withdrawal from Lebanon and Hezbollah in the north took their cue from Hamas in Gaza (who have been also firing katyushot even deeper into Israel then before the Gaza withdrawal and from the VERY places where we withdrew from)....One does NOT have to be a military analyst to see what is happening here....

3
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 01:17:45 AM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote from: "mbczion"

Lebanon is invading us


Have Lebanese or Hezbollah troops entered Israeli territory?
Then I'd say you aren't being invaded.


They don't have the guts to enter Israeli territory.  That is why they resort to indiscriminately lobbing bombs into our cities, while hiding behind their own civilians.  

And what?  The Japanese did NOT enter American territory in 1941.  They just crashed their planes into Pearl Harbor.  So maybe America wasn't invaded by the Japanese?

4
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 01:15:39 AM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "Mephistopheles
Whether you like or dislike Jews and their history, this remains the problem.


qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
When you are given the option of a cease fire, and flat out reject it, kill some more civilians, agree to a cease fire, then go off and kill some more civilians LITERALLY hours later, stating you haven't killed enough civilians to satisfy your blood lust and need a few more days, you'll never get much sympathy from me.


Some "ceasefire".  Hundreds of missles have been falling on our cites a day non-stop since July 12.  Actually the proper term is "hudna", which is the Arabic word for "ceasefire" (as opposed to the english word that you hear on CNN or BBC), which means a kind of, sort of, maybe, but not quite "ceasefire"....


They started falling since you started bombing their country over two of your soldiers illegal encroachment and eventual capture on Lebanese soil.  As for the cease fire, well no duh they've been dropping on you when there was no cease fire.  But when the cease fire was agreed to, it was you silly jews that threw in the maybe, sort of part, and proceed to start bombing civilians hours later.  During that time no rockets hit any part of Israel.

Here's a piece on how Hezbollah is really able to project force into Israel:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5187974.stm

You could just leave Northern cities, like you tell the Lebanese people to do.


Oh, yeah, BBC, the "evenhanded" newsreporting.  I guess the family who's house, in Tiberias (not even close to the northern border), got hit by a missle and will be staying with my family and I because they have no home now might have a thing or two to say to BBC.  Of course, reporters living thousands of miles away from what is happening, like you, have all the insights, unlike those of us that are actually living here don't :roll:   Sure, Hezbollah has no projecting capability.  At least try to come up with a link by some newsreporting that is NOT a total joke next time :lol:

5
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 01:10:22 AM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "mbczion"


Even according to the link you provided in the previous post, the US did not begin supplying Israel with weapons until after the Yom Kippur War and most of the money that had been given to Israel until that point were loans, rather than grants (which were all payed back) unlike those received from the US by Egypt who hasn't payed back any of the billions they have been granted to this very day.

At any rate, the War of Indepence took place in 1948 and Israel kicked the kahooties out of all the surrounding countries despite being outnumbered and having the most primitive of fighting equipment.

And Israel made the desert blossom long before 1951.  Electricity already existed in Tel-Aviv as early as 1938.  And a country can have all the foreign aid in the world, but without the know how it won't amount to anything as both Egypt and Jordan are living examples of.

Your the one repeating the same old propaganda.  You are denying that any Jews lived in Palestine between 70AD and the 19th century, but any honest historian knows that is a bunch of donkey bookus.  Jews have been living in this land consistently for the last 3,500 years.  Some periods there were more and some periods there were less.  And no small number of the Arabs who were here in 1948 only immigrated from the surrounding countries after the desert began to blossom from the blood and sweat of the Jewish pioneers.  Don't take my word for it.  Read From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters (not Jewish).  So we have no less claim to this land than the "Palestinians", maybe more so.

If you think that these cells do not need finances to operate, than you are dumber than I thought.  The Islamic fundamentalists "the true ones" have stated time and time again that their first goal is to Islamicize the Middle East and then afterwards to Islamicize the whole world.  First they are concentrating most of their finances in the Middle East.

You are right about one thing though.  One thing Israel has no control over is other countries immigration policies.  If Europe and the rest of the western world open up their gates wide and open to all without checking every once in a while who comes in, then that is their business and problem.


I said US tax payers gave Israel free cash.  You said you guys fought 4 wars before a dime was thrown your way. I was right, you were wrong.  You can't seem to own up to this. Silly brainwashed jew...

You also have as much claim to the land as I do to parts of Sub Saharan Africa.  Yes, jews were there at times, and many other people were there for much longer.  At certain times Muslims WERE PROTECTING THEM from cuckoo Christians and their crusades. Yes, that's right. :-)

As for the fundamentalist, I'll go back to my point. So what are your few square miles of dirt doing besides emboldening them and their youth with your vulgar force against a civilian populace?  You aren't stopping them in any way what so ever anywhere else in the world, nor concentrating their actions.  If anything you screw over countries that try and help you. No clue what the finance part was about.  Are you guys funding terror cells again?


And you said Israel would be nothing without America Aid and that is myth.  First of all, the amount of aid that Israel gets from the States amounts to maybe 2% of our gross national product (and that is a generate estimate).  Israel was successfully developing the dessert and defending herself just fine even before the US threw a dime our way and that is a fact.  Also, much of the "aid" goes to relocating Israelis that our government has kicked out of their homes (calculate 2,000 families kicked out of their homes in Gaza times 100,000 dollars for new home plus some money until they find work).  The rest goes to purchasing arms which we are required to purchase only from the US, so the "aid" goes right back into the US pockets (facts that are not disclosed when aid packages are discussed in the News).

At any rate, if the US would NOT give large amounts of aid and weapons to Israel's enemies then we would not need their aid either:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/egyptaid.html

http://www.jordanembassyus.org/new/aboutjordan/uj1.shtml

http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/Joshua.M.Landis-1/syriablog/2004/07/us-foreign-aid-to-syria.htm

http://voanews.com/english/2006-08-04-voa50.cfm

Again, I say that the US should keep their money for themselves.  They have enough of their own problems- homeless, mass immigration, jobless, unavailable medicare....

Israel will manage without US aid and so will our neighbors, as long as they don't do anything stupid, like try to attack us again....

And you still do not get it.  Jews have been here straight through for the last 3,500 years.  There was never a period here where there were no Jews.  I don't know if you have a claim to Africa or not and if you do, more power to you; move there.  But to deny Jewish claims to Israel like they do not exist or like they or neglible is historic ignorance and/ revisionism.  And much of the land in Israel was bought by Jews from Arabs.  That is FACT, my friend.  Maybe it pops holes in your "blood lusting Jews stole Palestinian land" theory, but that is life.

And once again you still do not get it.  Do you really think it is as simple as some loonie stapping on a belt an blowing himself up.  Guess what?  These "heroes" families get 25,000 dollars (aside from their 72 virgins) a pop from the Iranian government, as well as any of these cells other supporters for sending their kids to be "martyrs".  And there is training.  You think those terrorist were able to wake up one day and crash three planes into buildings?  You really are clueless.  And yes, Israel is the only liberal, democractic, western strong-hold in the middle of an Islamic Republic that intends to take over the world.  We are the only thing stopping them from having a uniform stronghold in the Middle East, which if they had, the terrorism happening around the world now would be a pleasant memory compared to what would await the rest of the western world....

6
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 12:45:39 AM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "TheEngineer"

Quote
The rockets have a severly limited range, so you're only talking cities right on the border.

So it's ok to kill civilians as long as there is a range limit?
Quote
Besides, why not just do what they are telling the people in town's they're bombing to do? GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE CITIES.

So why doesn't the other side do the same?  If civilians leave the areas held by Hez., they won't get blown up.  

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right?


First jackass, I was saying that YOU HAVE A PLACE TO STILL GO in your own country. Where in the world you got that I said it's okay, I have no clue. Israel can project force anywhere into Lebanon, so where can they go?  The rockets being launched have a short flight path, thus you can leave these cities on the northern border

Also, your bloody thirsty murderers.  12:1 death rate.  How compassionate.  Explain the logic behind that.


So if Israel did not know how to defend herself, did not value the life of her civilians (as opposed to our enemies who hide behind civilians and cynically use them for human shields), and there were as many or more Israeli casualties as Lebanese casualties, then Israelis retaliation would be acceptable.  Please enlighten me with more of your idiotic "logic" :roll:

7
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 06, 2006, 12:42:09 AM »
Quote from: "CrimsonKing"
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "mbczion"
If Hezballa doesn't indiscriminately launch missles into our cities, then we won't have a need to blow up the location from which they launched their missles, which many times (unfortunately) include civilian populated areas.  And we are NOT happy to bomb anything.  If Lebanon would control their borders more and keep out the unwelcomed Syrian and Iranian funded terror groups then we would not have to do their work for them.


Buses, ambulances, UN building...

Clearly Hezzbollah strongholds.


Actually, groups like that usually use innocuous seeming and stigma inducing targets, like schools, churches/mosques/temples, hospitals, etc. for their strongholds.


Hear Hear

8
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 05, 2006, 02:29:42 PM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "Mephistopheles
Whether you like or dislike Jews and their history, this remains the problem.


qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
When you are given the option of a cease fire, and flat out reject it, kill some more civilians, agree to a cease fire, then go off and kill some more civilians LITERALLY hours later, stating you haven't killed enough civilians to satisfy your blood lust and need a few more days, you'll never get much sympathy from me.


Some "ceasefire".  Hundreds of missles have been falling on our cites a day non-stop since July 12.  Actually the proper term is "hudna", which is the Arabic word for "ceasefire" (as opposed to the english word that you hear on CNN or BBC), which means a kind of, sort of, maybe, but not quite "ceasefire"....

9
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 05, 2006, 02:19:14 PM »
qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
Truth:

First grant occured in 1951.  Israel sure must be more blood thirsty than I thought if you guys managed all that in few years.


So, whatever. Just more evidence of how twisted in head you are.  You could just admit you exagerated, lied, or simply didn't know when American taxpayers gave free money to your country, or not. Your choice.


Even according to the link you provided in the previous post, the US did not begin supplying Israel with weapons until after the Yom Kippur War and most of the money that had been given to Israel until that point were loans, rather than grants (which were all payed back) unlike those received from the US by Egypt who hasn't payed back any of the billions they have been granted to this very day.

At any rate, the War of Indepence took place in 1948 and Israel kicked the kahooties out of all the surrounding countries despite being outnumbered and having the most primitive of fighting equipment.

And Israel made the desert blossom long before 1951.  Electricity already existed in Tel-Aviv as early as 1938.  And a country can have all the foreign aid in the world, but without the know how it won't amount to anything as both Egypt and Jordan are living examples of.

qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
Yah, yah, keep repeating the same old tired propaganda over & over.  I'm sure it's true in your head, it's too bad facts don't work like that.  They are just people mad that you took their land and killed them. They don't even have to have a name or group, because that's the only nitpick that you seem to have. Now they're fighting you for that land back.  Not Palestinians?, then call them whatever you want.  They certainly weren't jews.  Not a hard concept to understand, now is it?


Your the one repeating the same old propaganda.  You are denying that any Jews lived in Palestine between 70AD and the 19th century, but any honest historian knows that is a bunch of donkey bookus.  Jews have been living in this land consistently for the last 3,500 years.  Some periods there were more and some periods there were less.  And no small number of the Arabs who were here in 1948 only immigrated from the surrounding countries after the desert began to blossom from the blood and sweat of the Jewish pioneers.  Don't take my word for it.  Read From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters (not Jewish).  So we have no less claim to this land than the "Palestinians", maybe more so.

qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
Islamic 'fundamentalist', the true ones, don't give two shits about Israel.  They have cells around the world, acting on their own agendas.  You aren't concentrating any extremists, just possibly creating more.  If you think sending one guy with some explosives strapped to him is some seriously resource consuming task, then you're dumber than I ever imagined.


If you think that these cells do not need finances to operate, than you are dumber than I thought.  The Islamic fundamentalists "the true ones" have stated time and time again that their first goal is to Islamicize the Middle East and then afterwards to Islamicize the whole world.  First they are concentrating most of their finances in the Middle East.

You are right about one thing though.  One thing Israel has no control over is other countries immigration policies.  If Europe and the rest of the western world open up their gates wide and open to all without checking every once in a while who comes in, then that is their business and problem.

10
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 05, 2006, 02:02:18 PM »
qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
No, they wouldn't.  Only the crazy Jews would be that nuts.  But that raises a good point.  Why haven't you guys used your nukes yet?  Also, from the sound of your logic, Lebanon should be invading you guys as well.


You have just answered your own ?  Maybe, just maybe because us "crazy Jews" are really NOT that nuts and don't want to use nukes, but only have them as a deterrant.  Maybe that concept is stretching your brain matter a bit, but maybe, just maybe....

Lebanon is invading us....Hundreds of missles falling each day on our major cities, deep in our country....Haifa, Afula, and Tiberias are far from the northern border....That is why we had to go into Lebanon for the first time in six years in the first place....Maybe this is not the picture you are getting watching CNN or BBC or reading the NY Times, but that is the reality....Not your one-sided, twisted, biased version....

qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
How about just not blowing them up to begin with?  Some people just can't or won't run away from their homes.  Either medical, health, age, or financial, or sanity reasons.  You guys seem more than happy to bomb roads and bridges, along with buses, so maybe staying in their homes makes sense?


If Hezballa doesn't indiscriminately launch missles into our cities, then we won't have a need to blow up the location from which they launched their missles, which many times (unfortunately) include civilian populated areas.  And we are NOT happy to bomb anything.  If Lebanon would control their borders more and keep out the unwelcomed Syrian and Iranian funded terror groups then we would not have to do their work for them.

11
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 05, 2006, 01:49:06 PM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "mbczion"
If one wants to claim that Israel was "born in sin" and should be dismantled I am unwilling to listen.


Then you're a fanatical individual blinded by his faith and government's propaganda.


You are even more ignorant of history and current events than you are letting on.  First you say I am blinded by my "faith".  Study a little bit about the founding of Israel.  Israel was predominately founded by atheistic Jews.  Even today, Israel is a secular government run by mostly secular Jews.  Sure, there are religious parties, but they are in the minority.  So what "faith" am I blinded by.  True, I am a religious Jew, but most Israelis are NOT and even if I was an avid atheist I would still be just as much in defense of my country as I am as a devout Jew.  

Secondly, which government "propaganda" am I blinded by?  The one that gives Arabs full voting rights and currently allows 10 out of 120 of our members of government to be Arabs, including ones that have openly claimed loyalty to our enemies.  The one that tries to bend over backward being more democratic than the USA, even if it means risking it's own civilians lives.  The one that is always striving to make sacrifices for peace, even when it comes to kicking thousands of its own citizens out of their homes and not providing them with places to live or alternative livelihoods to make up for the ones they lost.  Yeah, I am just blinded by my governments "propaganda" :?

Another site, some here might find interesting:

http://www.arabsforisrael.com/arabemails.html

What is interesting to me is not so much the content of the e-mails.  I am NOT surprised in the least that there are some Arabs and/or Muslims who are beginning to see the light of the Middle East Conflict.  What interests me is that the overwhelming majority of the e-mails are signed anonymously.  That means that most of them are afraid to sign there name because they are afraid of what might be done to them if they are tracked down.  You see another part of my government's "propaganda" is that our government believes in free speech, unlike those of the poor authors of the e-mails in the above link.  No matter how much an Israeli citizen criticizes his own government, he is protected by the law, while some of the authors of the above e-mails are risking their very lives (by being dissidents of their governments) by writing the truth.

And you might want to read what Arab/American Joseph Farah writes on the current Lebanon War:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51328

12
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 03, 2006, 11:02:08 PM »
Quote from: "quixotic"
I dont agree with this thread at all, i think your all being a little too harsh.

For someone that is supporting their race mbczion you seem a little unwilling to listen to anyhting else.

Dont get me wrong, in the whoel scheme of things I am for the Jews, but in the current conflict, you cannot deny that Israel is at fault. Yes, Hezbollah could b held responsible, but Israel are the ones that will be held accountable.


First of all, the Jews are NOT a race.  One who does not have any Jewish lineage whatsoever can convert to Judaism and be a full fledged Jew.  We are, however, a "people".

Secondly, like anyone else I have red-lines about certain things and claiming Israel has no right to exist is one of those red-lines for me.  That's just the way it is.   So, you're right.  If one wants to claim that Israel was "born in sin" and should be dismantled I am unwilling to listen.  This is NOT the same as Israeli being criticized for certain policies and/or actions.  Israel, like any other sovereign state, is subject to criticism like any other state, but to say we have no right to exist - I unaplogetically declare that I have no tolerance for that view.

Thirdly, the only thing Israel is at fault for in the current conflict is for daring to defend ourselves.  The katyushot were falling in our sovereign borders first before our air force jets so much as broke the air barrier between Israel and Lebanon.  Let's get real, if any other sovereign country had missles falling in their major cities and killing civilians sitting in their homes eating a meal, they would surely nuke the guilty country and ask ?'s later.  And they wouldn't give civilians a three day warning to get out of the danger zones either.  The Israelis (including Arabs, by the way) who have died from missles did not have the same luxury of this three day warning that we are giving the Lebanese citizens.

13
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 03, 2006, 10:52:10 PM »
Quote from: "Rick_James"
Quote
BTW, our "terrorist" state is the only thing standing in the way from the fundamentalist Islamic regimes from turning the whole western world into a fundamentalist Islamic hell on par with Saudia Arabia.


IF by "standing in the way" you actually mean "Stirring up the hornets nest until all the hornets from other nests come and gang up on you and you have to call the Coalition of the Willing to bring some insect repellant", then yes, I agree.

Although, I don't think the coalition will be nearly as willing this time(/place).


Dude, you are quite poetic with your metaphor, except that you have it backwards.  Hizbullah stirred up the "hornets nest" by lobbing missles into Israel sovereign territory until we decided we weren't going to just sit and take it, and then the Lebanese President had to call in the "Coalition of the Willing" to bring the insect repellant.  I say that the coalition should just stay away because I think the Europeans are a bit out of their league trying to mediate the border between Israel and Lebanon/Syria.  Let them stay home and patrol their own borders.

14
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 03, 2006, 10:44:32 PM »
qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
Wow? Do you actually believe that bullshit or just ran out of stuff to say?

They fucking hate you because you STOLE THEIR LAND AND KILLED THEIR PEOPLE.  It's not a hard concept to grasp. You really need to lay off the propaganda your country feeds you and take a step back.


We "stole" nobody's land.  There never was an independent Palestinian State and before 1948, when one used the term "Palestinian" he was refering to anyone who lived in Turkish owned (and then later British owned) Madatory Palestine, whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Arab, or Caucasian.  The term "Palestinians" as we know it today was not invented until 1964.  Until then, the Arabs in Israel refered to themselves as either Syrian or Jordanian and considered the term "Palestinian" to be a "Zionist" invention.  It is you who really needs to lay off your distorted view of reality and history.

qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
Anyway, let's say you're right. Then you guys sure fucking suck at it then considering the terrorism occuring around the world.  So please enlighten me as to what exactly your few square miles of dirt is doing to stop them anywhere else?  Almost sounds like the 'fight them over there so we don't over here' line.  Too bad they only want to kill us & you because we're over there in the 1st place.


If the Islamic fundamentalist weren't concentrating most of their energy on Israel, then they would be utilizing it that much more all around the globe.  We are clearly on the front lines here fighting it.  Not so hard a concept to grasp.

qwerty789 wrote:
Quote
Also, I'm not sure when you think those 4 wars occured, but maybe you can enlighten me after reading this:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/U.S._Assistance_to_Israel1.html

Besides that, the US is also your biggest arms dealer.


From the same site:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html

especially-
Quote
U.S. economic grants to Israel ended in 1959. U.S. aid to Israel from then until 1985 consisted largely of loans, which Israel repaid, and surplus commodities, which Israel bought. Israel began buying arms from the United States in 1962, but did not receive any grant military assistance until after the 1973 Yom Kippur War. As a result, Israel had to go deeply into debt to finance its economic development and arms procurement. The decision to convert military aid to grants that year was based on the prevailing view in Congress that without a strong Israel, war in the Middle East was more likely, and that the U.S. would face higher direct expenditures in such an eventuality.


And another site that might be of interest:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1600302/posts

15
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 03, 2006, 11:21:53 AM »
Quote from: "qwerty789"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Quote from: "Dionysios"
I have just requested that MBC Zion be permanently banned from this forum.  If the article above is not immediately deleted, then I will never post in the regular forums again.  

- Dionysios


What's a matter Dio?  Having someone in the forum who is a Jew and Israeli who will not just lie around like a rag and let you rant your venom about my people unanswered and actually throw a little bit of facts, rather than propaganda into the "discussion" just a little intimidating for you?  Go ahead, ban me.  Not everyone is going to bend down and kiss your feet.


Your terrorist state won't be around for much longer.  Americans are coming to terms with the problems and waste that Israel is.  Without them, you're nothing.


Oh, is that so?  We turned the desert into the blossoming garden and metropolis that it is today and won four wars, despite being outnumbered, long before America so much as threw a dime our way.  I say to America to hold onto their money and use it for the homeless and unemployed in your own country.  Just hold onto the billions of dollars you fork out to Egypt and Jordan as well.  They will be fine without your help as well.

BTW, our "terrorist" state is the only thing standing in the way from the fundamentalist Islamic regimes from turning the whole western world into a fundamentalist Islamic hell on par with Saudia Arabia.  Israel is on the front line in this struggle, even if the naive like yourself (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt) and the Jew hating Dionysios (his posts speak for themselves) don't appreciate us.

16
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 03, 2006, 11:08:51 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
I have just requested that MBC Zion be permanently banned from this forum.  If the article above is not immediately deleted, then I will never post in the regular forums again.  

- Dionysios


What's a matter Dio?  Having someone in the forum who is a Jew and Israeli who will not just lie around like a rag and let you rant your venom about my people unanswered and actually throw a little bit of facts, rather than propaganda into the "discussion" just a little intimidating for you?  Go ahead, ban me.  Not everyone is going to bend down and kiss your feet.

17
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 03, 2006, 04:19:19 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Basically this would spell our destruction.

History stands against you, my friend.

- Dionysios


I rest my case;  your words are yet another indication of why Israel NEEDS to exist and woe to us [Jews] if Israel shall cease to exist.


Wrong.  By "History stands against you" we mean that history disproves your belief that the Jews would be destroyed if the state of israel never existed as it has proved the Jews to be indestructible so the state of israel does not NEED to exist for the Jews to survive.  

  The Jewish Diaspora has a Divine purpose, and God chastises those whom he loves.  Hardship which has the potential to place a people on the path to Salvation is not the same thing as annihilation.  

Suffering does not equal ahhihilation.
Diaspora does not equal annihilation.

- Dionysios


Well, Dio, history PROVES that Jews are NOT safe as long as we do not have our own sovereignty in our own state (but have to rely on the goodwill of individuals like you) and I suppose the destruction of one-third of world Jewry is not enough annihilation for you.  Oh wait, you do not believe that the Holocaust happened.  I almost forgot.  But even if it didn't there were enough pogroms that happened long before WWII and I am sure Jews would be safe "returning" to Europe and all the Arab/Muslim countries who would all just welcome us with open arms.

Dionysios, I have one for you.  Why don't you worry about what is good for your people (whoever they may be) and I will worry about what is good for my people.

BTW, I'm sure that dreaming of Israel's destruction might give you multiple oragasms and cause you to cum on your keyboard, but it aint gonna happen.  Sorry!!!!  But you have the right to keep dreaming....

Last but not least, when are you going to settle down once and for all?  I mean choose a final location already.  I have seen your location change from India to Ethiopia to Egypt.  Are you getting kicked out of every country you try to settle in?  Doesn't anybody want you? :lol:

18
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 02, 2006, 11:19:12 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "mbczion"
Basically this would spell our destruction.

History stands against you, my friend.

- Dionysios


I rest my case;  your words are yet another indication of why Israel NEEDS to exist and woe to us [Jews] if Israel shall cease to exist.

19
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 02, 2006, 11:17:39 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
And we did NOT label ALL israelis as racists.  Thou continuest with spin and fabrication.  No offense, but thy rantings have consistently contained false accusations.  We are not offended or angry, but it is never the less wrong, and we beseech thee to be more careful with the truth in thy diatribes.

  Dost thou really WANT the israeli air force to continue bombing Lebanon?  We should trust that thou hast some dignity.

- Dionysios


I would tell you that if you think that my ranting contain false accusations to please enlighten me, but considering that you also believe that there is some tall mountain in the middle of the (supposedly flat) earth, around which the sun rotates (your explanation of the supposed "illusion" of sunrise and sunset), combinded with the fact that you believe it would be best for manking if illiteracy flourishes, I wouldn't expect your "knowledge" of the Middle East Conflict and Israeli history to be exactly up to par either.

And no, I don't want innocent Lebanese OR innocent Israelis to be bombed.  Of course, if you are so concerned about innocent Lebanese civilians being bombed you might want to tell Hizbullah and their ilk to not hide like cowards behind women and children.  Then again, I supposed you and your ilk don't believe Israel has the right to defend herself because we don't have the right to exist in the first place, but that is YOUR opinion which is based on revisionist/distorted history.  However, this is a free site, so it is your right to spit venom, just like it is mine to respond in kind.

20
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 02, 2006, 09:52:14 AM »
Quote
and the racist settlers such as yourself should indeed be evicted.  That is not to say murdered as Palestinians are not like jews and should have mercy on their enemies in the event of victory, but the continuous israeli atrocities must stop.  A hero like Saladin who put an end to the success of the brutal and animalistic Crusades is needed to put an end to brutal, colonial, and animalistic zionist state of israel.  


Dionysios, you didn't have to call the Jews "vermin".  Your words (in all of your demagogic rantings) speak for themselves.  Note the bold words in your above quote.  Without knowing me (or any Israelis) you have labeled us all as "racist settlers", as well as assuming that we wake up every day and have nothing better to do than lust for Arab/Palestinian blood, but that the Palestinians are NOT like us Jews and are better than that (peace loving people that they are :?, unlike us Jewish/Israeli warmongers ).  In addition you are calling for the dismantlement of my country, as well as the only country in which Jews can find refuge from the likes of you and anyone who doesn't see that the calling for the dismantlement of the State of Israel is akin to inviting us [Jews] to be at the mercy of all the Dionysios's of the world by, once again, being guests in their hospitable countries, which basically spells out endless pogroms, inquisitions, and holocausts for my people.  Basically this would spell our destruction.

21
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 02, 2006, 08:20:35 AM »
Just to add a little bit of FACTS to my above post:

The great poet George Satayana once wrote that "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Yet every time I read an article about the Israeli / Palestinian conflict it is obvious that no one does remember the facts.

There is always a great deal of talk about “Israeli occupied territories” and “Palestinian Refugees” and the “Right of Return” by those who fled Israel in 1948.

But what are the facts? Are these lands “occupied” at all? Who are these “refugees”?

Let’s turn the clock back about 120 years to 1882 and move rapidly forward. Were there millions of Arabs living in “Palestine” back then? Maybe even a few hundred thousand? Nope. According to the Turks who “owned” Palestine at the time there were 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab in Palestine.

By the time Britain had taken control the Arab population was 752,048. Let’s not argue how it grew from 141, 000 to 752,000 in a mere 40 years. . .let’s focus instead on the fact that the Arabs made up 75% of the population of Palestine. The Jews at the time made up 11% and the Christians nearly another 10%.

But here we get back to why knowing your history is so critical. In 1923 Britain (who now controlled Palestine) spun off over 75% of Palestine and gave it to the Arabs! So the 75% of the Arab population now could lay claim to 75% of the land. Seems somewhat reasonable a division. This new country (which even today is 60% Palestinian in population) is named Jordan.

That is right: Jordan is in reality Palestine.”

The remaining 25% was to be made into a Jewish state.

Surprised? It gets even better.

In 1948 after the United Nations decided to carve up the remainng 25% as Jewish and Arab nations, the Arabs elected to reject the UN decree and go to war against Israel in an attempt to take all of the land for the Arabs. They lost the war and an estimated 300 to 400,000 Arabs who had been living there “fled.”

But here is an important part of history that again gets over looked: while these Palestinians fled Israel and now demand the right to return. . .the Arab countries demanded that the Jews living in their countries leave. Over 600,000 Jews were made refugees in 1948 – their lands confiscated, their moneys taken. . .many had lived in those lands for a thousand years or more but they were forced to flee.

Yet we never hear about these refugees. Why don’t they have the same “right of return” or “reparations” as the Palestinians demand?

Earlier I mentioned that Jordan got 75% of Palestine in 1923. Well, in the 1948 war the Arabs got another 10%. So now with 85% of “Palestine” they still demand more land from Israel.

Why? Why do reporters and editorialists only review history back to 1967? One hundred and twenty years is not so very long ago historically speaking. Neither is 46 year since Israel’s inception in 1948.

Why are these facts never discussed? Why is it always Israel who must give more and more?

George Satayana put it very well indeed when he said "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

In 1867 Mark Twain wrote of Palestine:

Quote:
"A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely.. We never saw a human being on the whole journey."  


Before the first aliyah in the 19th century Palestine was a mostly deserted place that was falling apart. I can show you pictures of the "Dome of the Rock" supposedly the 3rd most holy place of Islam was literally full of weeds and desolate. Hey, I'll bother. I'll find you a picture.

[not able to transfer pictures]

Notice the weeds and basic decay? and

 

Did you notice the roof is not gold and is missing lots of tiles?

By 1917 the British census determined that Arabs were 75% of the Palestinian population, the Jews were 11% and Christians made up another 10%. The Balfour Declaration of the same year promised to create a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. In 1922 Britain carved away 75% of Palestine and created a Palestinian state named Jordan.

Jordan IS Palestine. 75% of the population was given 75% of the land in 1922.

A Jewish state was not created until 1948 when the U.N. carved two states out of the remaining 25% of Palestine. Israel accepted, and the Arabs went to war in an attempt to erase the entire Jewish state. When the war ended the Arabs possessed 85% of Palestine and 99.99% of all the land in the Middle East.

This is the true history of Israel and her Arab neighbors.

What of the Palestinian refugees? Their tragedy is all too real – but Israel is not to blame. From 1948 to 1967 Arab countries controlled their lands – yet they were not assimilated. They lived then, as now, in refugee camps. It is a crime that Jordan did not assimilate them. I do have sympathy for the Palestinian refugees – but why are the other refugees ignored and forgotten?

For 2,500 years (long before Islam) Jews lived in Arab lands. In 1945 they numbered 1,002,270. These Jews were forced to flee in 1948. Israel assimilated them. Israel also assimilated many Arabs who became citizens and today sit in the Israeli Parliament.

So here we have the true history – two sets of refugees (Arab and Jew) – one assimilated long ago – another festering. We also know the truth that there are two Palestinian countries already in existence -- Israel and Jordan.

22
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 02, 2006, 07:38:15 AM »
And yet Dionysios resort once again to name calling and distortion of history to call for the destruction of my country and elimination of my people.  

I also find it funny that all throughout history, the Dionysios's of the world  have told us [Jews] to go back to Israel where we belong and now that we have they want Israel to be destroyed.  

Clearly Dionysios and his ilk are NOT interested in "justice" but elimination of Jews (let's not let his ravings about the "terrible zionists" cloud the REAL target of his parainoida- ALL Jews- whether zionist or not, religious or not, capitalistic, communistic or anything in between, liberal or conservative, etc. etc.)

I stand corrected.  I was wrong when I said nothing short of the dismantlement of Israel would be enough to satisfy the Dionysios's of the world.  I was too generous in making that statement.  Nothing short of the elimination of us Jewish vermon would be enough to satisfy Dionsysios and his ilk.

23
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: August 02, 2006, 06:43:33 AM »
Quote from: "Dionysios"
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "Dionysios"
The ONLY REASON Hizzbolah kidnapped the single digit number of people it has now is because ISRAEL FIRST KIDNAPPED THOUSANDS OF PALESTINIANS.

On the other hand, the quoted statement simply false.  The fact of the matter is that Lebanon and Israel are fighting over land claims, and that Hizbollah's goal is to push Israel as far back as possible.  They have taken and will continue to take whatever action they deem necessary to achieve that goal.

Kidnapping Israelis is just one way they think they can achieve that.  I think they don't really care about the prisoners, and just want an excuse to bring Syria and hopefully Iran in to back up their push into disputed territories.

You are wrong as the quoted statement about israel continually holding large amounts of Palestinian political prisoners is indeed the reason for the CURRENT conflict.  That is what many Palestinian representatives as well as the Syrian Ambassador to the US have said on CNN.
HOW do you know otherwise other than your anti-islamic prejudice?

- Dionysios


Well, of course the Palestinian representatives are going to say that the "political" prisoners is the reason for the current conflict.  What else are they going to say?  That they admit that wiping us off the map is their ultimate goal, now just as much as it was in 1948 and that lobbing missles into our cities is yet another attempt at achieving that goal.  The Palestinians will always come up with an excuse for more suicide bombings and katyushot- give up this piece of land, give up that piece of land, give back these prisoners with blood on their hands, etc. etc.  I think most logical people see by now that "land for peace" demand is an allusion and that anything short of turning ALL of Israel into "Palestine" will not satisfy our "neighbors" or the Dionysios's of the world.

24
Technology, Science & Alt Science / radiometric dating
« on: August 01, 2006, 05:36:20 PM »
The theory of evolution does NOT claim that we are descended from monkeys or apes, but that we AND monkeys/apes are descended from the same micro-organisms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

25
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: July 19, 2006, 08:09:52 AM »
Thanks for you concern, Cinlef....

We are closer to Jerusalem, so we are not taking any of the missles.  Actually many people are fleeing from the north of the country to seek refuge in the center, but for now, at least, my family and I are safe....

Thanks for asking :)

26
The Lounge / World War 3
« on: July 19, 2006, 07:15:09 AM »
And I'm sure if Israel was "transfered" to America or Europe that all the Dionysos's would welcome us Jews into their countries with open arms just like they did 65 years ago....

Thank you but no thank you; I think we'll stay put right here where we belong, katyushas, suicide bombers, and all....

27
Flat Earth Q&A / The four corners of the earth??
« on: June 17, 2006, 01:22:53 PM »
Ever hear of the term "metaphor"?

You know, like "when I was in the army I was stuck on some hole-in-the-wall base at the end of the world...."

or "don't sell yourself short, reach for the stars...."

or "that man is a pillar of the community; without him the community would just collapse...."

or "we are having an international event that will attact people from the far ends of the world...."

I think you get my point....

Does anyone who speaks in the above metaphors in the year 2006 believe the earth to be flat , immovable, and  supported by pillars?

I highly doubt it....

28
The Lounge / the bible
« on: May 25, 2006, 12:39:03 PM »
Quote
This does not mean I am saying non-Christians (including jews) are going to hell, as it is not for me to judge but God alone.

If you follow your way, then it is between you and God. I have nothing against you, although we obviously have profoundly different faiths.


Well, if this is how you REALLY see it, dio, then I can certainly live with that.  And I would like to believe that, but this just does NOT seem to be the sentiment coming out of your posts.  For sure, you seem to have an axe to grind with Jews, so I still remain somewhat suspicious of your sincerity in your above statements....

29
The Lounge / the bible
« on: May 24, 2006, 12:58:04 PM »
Dionysos wrote:

Quote
mbczion,

By the way, the seventy (LXX) Hebrew scribes who translated the Septuagint in Egypt sometime in the early third century BC under the sponsorship of Ptolemy Philadelphus (aka Ptolemy II, the son of Ptolemy I (Soter) Alexander the Great's right hand man) were translating the Bible from Hebrew to Greek, not the reverse. The earliest books of the Bible were written in Hebrew, as I am sure you would agree. These 70 scribes translated it from Hebrew to Greek. Do you not acknowledge this? I would be surprised if you do not. You were definitely correct about their being separated into 70 different rooms which only proves the Divine blessing that the undertaking had because all of them translated the entirety of it and none of their translations had an iota of difference between them (pun intended).

When I had mentioned earlier that the Bible had been translated back into Hebrew from Greek, I was referring to Jewish scribes of a later time period. I was saying that the later Hebrew Massoretic text is derived from this Septuagint. And it is a corruption of it as they are not identical.

As far as "christian" scholars you quote, I do not count any of them as Christian. All heretics are (knowingly or not) puppets of the jews, so it is natural that the heretics you quote would support your arguments. As to inconsistencies in the New Testament, the heretics also more often than not use false bibles. It is to be expected that the bibles of heretics contradict one another. Satan's house is divided against itself.

You should understand that I never claimed to be one with papists or protestants or muslims or even new calendar "orthodox" (who are not orthodox at all just as neither they nor protestants nor "catholics" are even Christians at all).

The New Testament is the authorized version of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Constantinople, and the Old Testament is the Septuagint of which we have spoken.


The scribes were forced by the Greeks to translate the Torah from Hebrew to Greek, but then there were seventy scribes who translated the Torah back from Greek to Hebrew, while being forced to be in separate rooms, and still managed to translate identically to each other to the letter.
This is why there is an Oral Law, so that the Jews would always know how to read the Torah and, ironically, to avoid the kind of corruption that you are accusing the Jews of.

Dio, if you can produce YOUR "original, uncorrupted" version of the Pentateuch, then we will talk, just like if the Muslims can produce their "original, uncorrupted" version of the Pentateuch that is supposedly locked up somewhere in Mecca, then I will be glad to talk with them as well.  Until then, however, I have a bit more faith in the Great Sages of each generation of the last 3,500 years, who have transmitted the Torah (both the written and the oral laws) from one generation to the next in an impeccable manner, over a troll who just comes into this forum and spouts his venom.

I also find it funny that you eliminate virtually every Christian sect out there as being "true Christianity".  Does this mean that the ONLY "true" Christian out there is Dionysos himself?  Wow, how righteous you must be :lol:

30
The Lounge / the bible
« on: May 16, 2006, 04:31:43 AM »
BTW, another thing that Dio convenienly leaves out about the seventy scribes translating the Septugaint from Greek back to Hebrew is that each of the scribes was forced to be in a separate room and despite that all of the 70 scribes' translations back to Hebrew was 100% compatible with one another.  This was the result of either a) a miracle or b) the fact that the scribes, like the all the Great Sages from every generation since the revelation at Sinai had/have an Oral Law as well as the Written Law as to how to read the Torah.

Another web-site to look at is www.aish.com

And regarding the Gospel, consider the following:

1) Christian scholar Rt. Rev. George Arthur Butterick, in The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, a book written by to prove the validity of the New Testament, states:

"A study of 150 Greek [manuscripts] of the Gospel of Luke has revealed more than 30,000 different readings.... It is safe to say that there is not one sentence in the New Testament in which the [manuscript] is wholly uniform."

2) There are 304,805 letters (approximately 79,000 words) in the Torah. In the over 3,000 years since Moses received the original Scripture from Mt. Sinai and wrote the 13 copies (twelve of which were distributed among the Tribes), spelling variants have emerged on a total of nine words -- with absolutely no effect on their meaning. The Christian Bible, in comparison, has over 200,000 variants and in 400 instances, the variants change the meaning of the text; 50 of these are of great significance.

3) Christian apologist Richard Sisson states:

"In fact, after the death of Jesus a whole flood of books that claimed to be inspired appeared.... Disputes over which ones were true were so intense that the debate continued for centuries. Finally in the fourth century a group of church leaders called a council and took a vote. The 66 books that comprised our cherished Bible were declared to be Scripture by a vote of 568 to 563."

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