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Flat Earth Debate / Re: The horizon is curved.
« on: June 12, 2012, 08:34:27 PM »
Can any FE'er tell me why the horizon is curved?
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Tom made those claims about the map from the 1800s. He clearly refers to the map being from the 1800s in his post, and refers exclusively to it. No matter how you interpret his post, it doesn't support your claims, because he's clearly talking about the map from the 1800s in that post.
If noobs are taking him seriously, then we can't just ignore him.
Correction isn't very useful if the person being corrected refuses to accept it.
We did not claim a FE'er created the 2007 map. We claimed a FE'er made the map from 2008, which is a different map.
This file has been superseded by File:Flat earth.png. It is recommended to use the other file. Please note that deleting superseded images requires consent.
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... post his response here and substantiate your currently baseless claims
Don't bring up James Randi. That SOB owes Tom a million dollars and refuses to pay up.
Hopefully, a FE'er who supports that map might offer their viewpoint on why it works.
How and why the sun switches gears is, of course, unknown. This mystery can be included amongst the many mysteries of the heavens.
You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?
The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models.
Antarctica is a separate continent.
It has been fully explored, mapped and people live there.
if an Ice wall exists it is Far beyond Antarctica.
What make the most sense that this "wall" is not a wall at all, but a barrier...
This is where our spherical suns light never shines upon our planar Earth.
Whats is beyond? UnKnown....but Master James has some interesting theories.
I'm afraid I'm having trouble figuring out what the hell you just said. If there is an ice wall, it's beyond Antarctica? The geographic and magnetic south poles have both been proven to be in Antarctica. And what do you mean, not a wall, but a barrier. Are you suggesting some magical, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey barrier of some metaphysical property?
And what do you mean, our spherical sun's light never shines or planar Earth? A) There are probably less than a thousand people who've been to college and believe the idea that Earth is planar, B) why would Earth be planar while Sol is spherical, and C) What do you mean, sunlight never shines on Earth? That entire thing made no sense.
you've since reworded and watered them down in order to make them look justifiable.
He says some things are possible, and that some things are more likely than other things (without saying either is the case).
Wil, is the 2007 file a RE map, or is it a FE map?
Why does it matter, when no-one was talking about it?
He does not say the maps were stolen from us, or that the formulae were concocted after the fact.
I was trying to be succinct, not vague. It's a common idiom, at least in my experience, and I didn't think it would cause any confusion. What I mean is that Tom claimed that the map in the FAQ was not produced by -- nor based on something produced by -- the formula which produces a map that looks exactly like it. Rather, they invented it from scratch on their own, and then after it already existed, Round Earthers cleverly devised a formula to transform the globe into that configuration.
The FE maps are wrong. In shape and distances.
Had the file from 2008 been uploaded in 2007, you would not have that case at all. So, indeed, this question is relevant to your claim. You are dodging it, because you know full well that the necessary implication is ludicrous.
But the map you originally linked to is the one from 2008. It's the one that's been under discussion from the start. You're the one who's trying to shift the goalposts.
Do you claim that Tom does not claim that it is likely that the UN stole their map design from the FES? Yes or no.
Do you claim that Tom does not claim that the northern azimuthal formula was designed to copy a FES design? Yes or no.
If by "does claim" you mean would claim or does believe, then I have no opinion on the matter. I am not a psychic.
However, if by "does claim" you mean did claim or has stated, then no, he has not, as anyone can see.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that FEers were lazy about their map and just colored in the UN flag?
Has it occurred to you that FES was in existence about 100 years before the UN was formed, and it's more likely that the UN stole that map from us?
You're telling me this is a coincidence?
I can make a mathematical formula to draw swastikas on graphic calculators. It doesn't mean that I invented the swastika.
Finally, why is the wording above different to what you had in the OP? Your claims are so watered down at this point that I can see through them.
Oh, wait! Nobody believes that here, either.
As far as the UN being "implicitly" RE, I've never heard the UN referred to as a RE organization.
The explanation with the least number of assumptions is the simplest explanation.
At some point, somebody other than me derails the topic and posts appear which are no longer relevant to it. These posts are ignored by the moderators.
What is this other purpose, then?Probably to perma ban TK. It would be my goal of I was a mod.
Ask again for a non-distorted FE map ignoring the fact that you don't have a non-distorted RET one either.
Even if there isn't a conspiracy, then NASA must be ridiculously incompetent. I really don't see how a thread like this is compatible with FET.
The globe is not mathematically derived from any other map. Thus, it's not a transformation.So the globe is not derived from an oblate spheroid? How then can you claim that its a map of earth?
Well by approximation we think the earth is a flat disk. We believe its sufficiently flat and disk shaped that mapping it as a disk is useful for navigation. Please refer to the FAQ for such a map.
You claim to use distortion as an aid. In RET we do the same. I have shown you our baseline that we distort and the method we use to distort it. All I'm asking is for the same from you.No, you haven't showed me how you convert an oblate spheroid into a globe.
So your 'baseline' or starting point is an oblate spheroid.
You apply no transformations to make an oblate spheroid fit on a globe? Now you are just lying.
How do you transform an oblate spheroid onto a globe? Please answer.
Does anyone understand this?
And I have told you several times that there is such a map in the FAQ. Its not perfect. It has distortion. Just like your globes. Not having a perfect map is in no way proof that earth cannot be flat. You don't have a non-distorted version of an oblate spheroid either. Why are you making me repeat myself? Its very simple.No. For the third time, the globe is the base map. It has no distortions in cartographic terms. It is not a projection.How do you map an oblate spheroid onto a sphere with no distortions? You are wrong. You have no perfect map. Do not demand one from me.
I am asking for the map upon which your distortions are based. For RE, that is the globe map. What is yours?
It is kind of rubbish though. Maximum lame. I mean, he's already done the standard newb 'put LW in your avatar' move. This is just sinking to a level that nobody here wants to see. Time for The Knowledge to be less of a newb methinks. This is not Never Never Land.
Answer this question:What exactly are you trying to say? That Trekky was a lost RE'er when he uploaded Flat_earth.jpg, and a year later he had reformed and uploaded a True Zetetic rendering, Flat_earth.png?
Please work on your chronology, phrasing, etc. You're trying to conflate different claims, and roll the clock back on everything I've said since that quote. Ain't gonna work.
All I am saying is that Trekky can reasonably be construed as part of FES at the time he uploaded the map. That's all I have to say, because it's all Tom actually said.
Are you suggesting it's somehow less "weasely" to make up stuff, or pretend someone said something they didn't say?
It was an amusing picture of something with Wilmore's head and details superimposed on it, and it was relevant to a low content post already placed there by John Davis.
So nothing to do with the shape of the Earth? Isn't that a round about ad hominem?
No. For the third time, the globe is the base map. It has no distortions in cartographic terms. It is not a projection.How do you map an oblate spheroid onto a sphere with no distortions? You are wrong. You have no perfect map. Do not demand one from me.
A globe can be a map but a disk can't? Have you been drinking?