1

Flat Earth Q&A / The Cavendish Experiment

« on: January 24, 2007, 11:49:03 AM »

Gravity still exists to some extent in the current FE model. It's just not the primary force that keeps your feet on the ground.

If it did exist then the gravity exerted by your giant plane would drop off
as 1/d (d being the distance from the plane) Not 1/(d^2) which
experiment clearly shows.

But suppose the force we felt were a combination of gravity and the "inertia due to acceleration" That still wouldnt make F proportional to 1/(d^2).

You're screwed
admit it!

Why would 1/d express the force of gravity rather than 1/d^2?

Any point source which spreads its influence equally in all directions without a limit to its range will obey the inverse square law. This comes from strictly geometrical considerations. The intensity of the influence at any given radius (r) is the source strength divided by the area of the sphere. Being strictly geometric in its origin, the inverse square law applies to diverse phenomena. Point sources of gravitational force, electric field, light, sound, and radiation obey the inverse square law.

I understand that as a sphere, it is easier to work with the earth's gravity as a point source, than if it was a disk, but even a disk would be subject to a slightly modified version, which is why a disk just wouldn't work with gravity, the whole flat thing would get very subjective as gravity would pull things toward the middle instead of "Down".

2

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 16, 2007, 06:13:20 PM »

I guess you will never be certain about your ice wall then, huh?

Because guess what. You never seeing the ice wall is like me never going to space. You cannot be certain. But seeing if there really is an ice wall as you suggest or not would put a real big damper on this whole theory, especially if we are able to cross the continent unscathed, alive and well, and come right back, now wouldn't it?

Or you could go on a 13,000 mile cruise (guess these will be claimed fake they are really travelling 38,526 miles but being sneaky so no one notices):
http://www.condorjourneys-adventures.com/antarctica_cruise5.asp

http://www.panoramicassociation.org/documentlibrary/circumnavigation.html

And while it's a good idea,  ETOPS certification is not required for private Flights outside of  JAA Juristiction (Europe), only commercial flights are so restricted by the FAA.

3

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 15, 2007, 07:34:11 PM »

It's the rotation of the aircraft about the gyro that causes it to precess.  Anytime the horizontal axis of the aircraft is not the same as the local hoizontal of the earth, the gyro will precess.

Without which it would be pretty useless, since precession is why a gyro can be used for navigation.  

They still must be set.
...
Inertial Navigation Systems cannot be used as a stand alone system.  It induces errors over time.  These are called integration errors.  They arise from noise in the system of sensors.  This error is being integrated, so it starts as a slow drift but within hours the system is unusable.

Which get corrections from the GPS and VOR systems.

4

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 14, 2007, 08:23:07 PM »

So Engineer, why does the gyro compass not maintain a true course when moved about the flat earth?

For the same reasons it is not true on the RE.

No, in the FE you are talking about simple two dimensional movement in relationship to the axis of rotation.  

In a sphere the movement is through three dimensional space as you move between North and South. Since a gyro responds to torque on it's axis, moving north to south induces a level of torque not found in a FE model.

And, while I'm sure you are fully aware of them, the slaved Gyro/magnetic systems are only one solution to precession.  In military Inertial guidance systems, they use two gyros, set to counter each other.

As for your question of how the gyros can be aligned without magnetic compass information, this from an A320 pilot:

When you turn on an INS, it enters the alignment phase. It is supposed to be sitting on the ramp without movement. It still detects movement though; the movement of the earth since the gyro/laser gyro measures all movements in space. It take this movement/ acceleration and calculates at what latitude the unit is. Rotation speed is higher at the equator than further north and that's how the computer figures out the current latitude. This gets more difficult the closer you get to the poles because the rotational speed differences get smaller and it gets more difficult to exactly determine the current latitude. The INS looks at this angular acceleration and since it knows where the rotation is from, it knows that the true north must be in a 90 degree angle to that. In flight, the computers constantly correct the sensed data for the rotation of the earth at any latitude and also for the aircraft following the curved surface of the planet which, when followed at a certain altitude, is sensed as a continuous change of direction downward in space.

Question for you, does the Sun produce the heat for the FE?

5

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 14, 2007, 03:18:21 PM »

You on the other hand, have no problem running from the facts about the operation of a simple gyro compass.

O.K. let's take a look at the simple gyro compass.

Simple in concept, spin a gyro and it will resist having it's axis of rotation turned.

So Engineer, why does the gyro compass not maintain a true course when moved about the flat earth?

6

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 14, 2007, 11:57:08 AM »

No, you just run away from all the inconvenient facts that go against you.

Such as?

Such as..The fact that nothing in navigation charts match south of the equator in a FE world.

Such as ...The fact that stars in the Southern Hemisphere don't follow the proper path in a FE.

Such as...the course deviation shown does not match the variation in magnetic headings that the FE describes.

Such as...The south magnetic pole, being located hubward of "The Wall", creates a large variation on magnetic lines of force from the current earth model, and do not match current navigational charts.

No, I specifically stated about having first hand knowledge about the 'mechanics' and operation of larger aircraft due to my time in the jump seat.  Perhaps you just don't know what that is, seeing as it has to do with aviation, and, well, you are not doing to well with that here.

, or because you studied engineering you know all type of engineering.  

Or could it be the type of engineering I studied?

Jumpseat can refer to the "extra" seat in some cockpits, the small seats for the steward/esses on some planes, or the airline's equivalent of "deadheading".  You never specified which, nor do any of them mean you know anything about the mechanics of an aircraft.  

As for the type of engineering, again, how would we know, you fall back on the fact that you are an engineer to browbeat posts on pretty much any type of subject from aeronautics to nuclear physics, I haven't seen a post where you actually state what kind of engineer you are, hence the Train reference.  I get described as a software engineer, doesn't mean I can design a computer chip.

And say you worked from an airline, again there are a lot of jobs that you could have been doing from pilot to food service.  Not all of them imply any kind of knowledge.

And it's all based on a magnetic compass.  Which you specifically stated that no pilot of any size aircraft uses.  

Where?  I believe if you read back you'll see I wrote

What pilot of an aircraft of any size uses a magnetic compass?

 
["The Engineer"]
No wonder very few cadets become pilots.[/quote]
Maybe it's because for a SAR mission, you need a lot more feet on the ground than eyes in the air (and normally the eyes in the air are an observer's the pilot has other things to worry about).

But all of this aside you still can not support how a pilot would make that degree of course adjustment without knowing it.  But then again they are all conspirators, but then again you must be too being a pilot and all...

7

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 13, 2007, 10:33:25 PM »

Did you know that aviation has been my thing since I was about 2 years old?  

No, did I miss your autobiography? How should I know?

I know all about the 'mechanics' of larger aircraft.  Did you also know that while I was in college, studying ENGINEERING,

What does driving a train have to do with it?

I also worked for an airline?

So does a stewardess

So that's what it's like when your argument fails...
I wouldn't know what that's like.

No, you just run away from all the inconvenient facts that go against you...Have you thought of running for president?

How does the gyro compass know which direction the aircraft is pointed in?

It's set as part of pre-check, .....

Set with the compass.  Just like I said.

And you are arguing with a former Air Force Sergeant who who used to teach Aerospace education to Civil Air Patrol Cadets.

It's funny that you should say that you were in the AF and taught 'aerospace education' to cadets.  You would assume that someone like yourself would know something about aviation.  For example:

Now, a horizontal situation indicator, which is what is displayed on the HUD or the MFD

And the HUD is getting it's readings from the Gyro compass, not the Magnetic compass.

A horizontal situation indicator is a gyro compass.  Why would someone who knows about aviation argue otherwise?

Now, as I said before, the horizontal situation indicator or, gyro compass, is slaved to the magnetic compass or a set of directional magnetometers.  Have a look:

The horizontal situation indicator (commonly called the HSI) is an aircraft instrument normally mounted below the artificial horizon in place of a conventional directional gyro which combines both the DG and the VOR display and reduces pilot workload by lessening the number of elements in his or her scan. The HSI instrument also includes a glide slope needle so that an ILS can be flown with reference only to the six basic instruments. Among other advantages, the HSI offers freedom from the confusion of reverse sensing.

On the HSI, your airplane appears in miniature in the center of the instrument. The VOR/ILS localizer is shown in relation to the miniature airplane. This is all on the face of the heading indicator slaved to a remote compass.

You may also consider a slaved HSI. Slaving automatically compensates for gyro heading errors and keeps your HSI in agreement with your compass. It uses a magnetic flux sensor mounted in the wing or tail of your aircraft to sense changes in magnetic heading and sends corrective signals to your HSI.

But you already knew all this, since you taught 'aerospace education' to CAP pilots.

Where do I say anything about teaching pilots?  You even quoted me above, if you know squat about the program you'd know that very few cadets ever become pilots.  

You want everyone to assume that because you worked for an airline, you know the mechanics involved in an airplane, or because you studied engineering you know all type of engineering.  Sorry if I hurt your feelings.  

But thank you, I think anyone who has bothered to slog through this can easily see that there are redundant directional system in aircraft that would make the kind of course deviation you suggest impossible without the pilot knowing it.

And on top of them, there's the position of the sun and stars giving the difference away, the speed needed to travel the Flat Earth course in the same amount of time the round earth course would take, the fuel usage to make the longer trip, all showing that it does not happen that way.  There's dozens of different ways the suggested FE alternate route would fail.   Then again the gets to the biggest failings of the FE, the southern hemisphere is just not as big as it should be if the world was flat.

8

The Lounge / Stop the promotion of Witchcraft and Sin in our schools!

« on: January 13, 2007, 04:55:25 PM »

lol polish? atmy school nobody is really racist exept for thouse stupid jews i hate them they can burn in HAHA i tricked u! u thought i was racist so u can post and say sodapop dont discriminate and seem like a hero I tricked you haha

You are a sad little person.

9

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 13, 2007, 04:53:37 PM »

This is a sectional correct?
Looks like it supports the RE model. What say you, fellow RE'ers?

Supports both, but display the same for south of the equator and you're on to something.

10

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 13, 2007, 04:51:46 PM »

Did you know that aviation has been my thing since I was about 2 years old?  

No, did I miss your autobiography? How should I know?

I know all about the 'mechanics' of larger aircraft.  Did you also know that while I was in college, studying ENGINEERING,

What does driving a train have to do with it?

I also worked for an airline?

So does a stewardess

No wonder I've wanted to beat the living crap out of just about every CAP pilot I've ever met.  They have got to be the dumbest group of pilots I've ever known.

Yes, they must be pretty dumb to be wasting their time learning how to find crashed aircraft and rescue pilots who get into trouble.  
What a bunch of yahoos.

How does the gyro compass know which direction the aircraft is pointed in?    

It's set as part of pre-check, .....
Hey, I just realize how increadibly silly the Fe model is with magnitism.  Since the South pole is somewhere hubward of the wall, anywhere closer to it than the North pole would point directly towards it.  So from most of Africa, "South" would be off the Eastern shore.
... Anyway, How does a pilot take into account the errors in a mag compass due to high altitude, electrical storms, energized iron deposits in the ground, and static build up on the aircraft?  No single system is relied on, redundant systems that can be cross checked are used, and when they start to disagree, that's when the fun begins.

11

The Lounge / Stop the promotion of Witchcraft and Sin in our schools!

« on: January 12, 2007, 05:45:58 PM »

haha nice one sodapop, i came so close to calling you out on being a racist!

black son of a noble seamstress

what the heck is a "noble seamtress"? i thought a noble person was suppose to be a person whom society respects, but how can anyone respect a seamstress?

Forum word sensor.  It's supposed to be bitch.

Aw, I htought it was a member of the Seamstress' Union from Disk World.

12

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 12, 2007, 05:43:09 PM »

Just out of curiosity, what is this:

earth inductor compass

I think I know what you are referring to but the compass part is throwing me off.

By the way, did you miss this part of one of my previous posts:

BTW, do you realize you are arguing with a pilot?

Yes a Cessna Pilot, you said, and that has little to do with the mechanics of larger aircraft.
And you are arguing with a former Air Force Sergeant who  who used to teach Aerospace education to Civil Air Patrol Cadets.

And earth inductor compass is what it is listed as in the parts manifest.  Though honestly it uses the magnetic fields to "Know" if you've changed course or not.

And the HUD is getting it's readings from the Gyro compass, not the Magnetic compass.  Regardless in aviation today, for most flying that isn't dead reckoning, the pilot relies more on the VOR than the compass.

13

The Lounge / Stop the promotion of Witchcraft and Sin in our schools!

« on: January 11, 2007, 08:02:24 PM »

You are defending those that hate black people, therefore you must support them.

So the only people hated are Black?
There are more than two races in this world.

No, but blacks bear the brunt of racial slurs. That and Jews.

Just depends on your location.  Hispanics are more likely to be the brunt of racial slurs where I live.  And of course a lot of dark humor is aimed at Arabic and Islamic people today.  Growing up, Polish, Irish, and Pueto Ricansand of course Gays were the target.  It all varies, and maybe we can grow out of it.

14

The Lounge / Stop the promotion of Witchcraft and Sin in our schools!

« on: January 11, 2007, 07:57:25 PM »

okay, okay, i've caught my breath

in all seriousness, is it racist to say you hate someone and call them a "black son of a noble seamstress" because their mother is a total noble seamstress, and the person you hate just so happens to be black?

Well, in a work yes.
If you're not being racist, why mention race?  I don't normally refer to my friends as being White or Black or Jewish or Hindi or whatever, unless it is meaningful to the topic at hand.

15

Flat Earth Q&A / UNBELIEVABLE

« on: January 11, 2007, 07:54:07 PM »

Clandestine shipments are made by all modes of transportation, including submarines and PT boats.
www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/STchp2.html

Sure, but Space Shuttle?  There's too many easier ways.

16

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 11, 2007, 07:50:36 PM »

What pilot of an aircraft of any size uses a magnetic compass? Aircraft and more importantly ships are metal, which interferes with a magnetic compass, you think a 747 pilot (or navigator) is readjusting their compass mid flight?

Here you go Curious:
they all have a compass, and it's in the line of sight of the pilot (in most cases, except for the fighters, as the HUD projects it anyway).

And where does the HUD get it's heading from?  Not the mag compass.

I never said they don't have them, But like in the F-16 cockpit photo (though it looks more like a simulator) That dark screen to the left of center is the multi display which shows altitude, direction and a host of other information.  the mag compass is there for when everything else fails (like the gyro compass, the earth inductor compass, and there aren't getting directional signals from the ground.  If a fighter pilot is relying on it, he's probably getting ready to eject.

Even small passenger jets use a computerized screen to display everything from heading to radar.

I've never been in the cockpit of a Cessna, Leaned to parachute in a Piper, and got to see into the cockpit of some military craft that I rode in, saw the insides of many more at the air show they had on base.  

Did have a buddy who flew Cessna, the idiot ignored the ceiling and found himself waking up in a steep dive with blood flowing from his nose.  

But I ramble...My point is, none with even the most basic understanding of navigation, is going to have his course deviate from straight by the amount indicated without knowing it, both from modern directional equipment and from celestial navigation.

17

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 10, 2007, 03:15:13 PM »

Not all compasses are magnetic, most advanced navigational systems use gyroscopic compasses, because of potential error in magnetic navigation (Iron deposits, electrical storms...

As any pilot will tell you, a gyroscopic compass must be aligned with the magnetic compass when the instrument is first powered up.  It then suffers from precession as the aircraft moves around it.  Then it must be sync'd with the magnetic compass again.

...not to mention the whole declination problem since True north and Magnetic North are not in Sync (and Magnetic North keeps moving).

Which is not a problem as sectionals provide the correction and are updated every six months.

What pilot of an aircraft of any size uses a magnetic compass? Aircraft and more importantly ships are metal, which interferes with a magnetic compass, you think a 747 pilot (or navigator) is readjusting their compass mid flight?

Besides, as many sailors still do today, you can take sightings off of the stars, and use them to navigate.  Or does the southern cross jump around in the sky at the whim of the conspirators?

18

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 10, 2007, 02:32:08 PM »

With the North and South poles both on the surface of the earth, it proves that the earth is not flat, the magnetic fields can not be bent to both appear on the surface of a flat plane, without being unbalanced.

Show me.

Consider:

Picture that magnetic north pole is in the middle of a circular disk, and the southern pole is on a single spot near the edge.

Your strongest lines of force are going to run along the path between the poles, And weaken the further from the path, so the far side of the globe near the "Ice Wall" would have the weakest field.

Yet, Aurora are seen Both over the north pole, and over Antartica, from Cape Horn, Cape Hope and Austraila, proving the strength of the magnetic fields there.

In fact, in the model with the flat earth, the US would be in one of the weaker areas of the field.

Put a bar magnet under a paper plate, with one pole in the center and the other near an edge, now pour iron filings onto the paper plate and jostle them to highlight lines of force, the further from the bar, the weaker the force holding the iron.

19

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 10, 2007, 10:05:09 AM »

Now think about navigating on a Flat Earth.  It's the same thing.  How do you know your are sailing in a straight line?  The wind never blows constantly in the same direction, and your compass will never read the same heading (unless you are not moving, or you are constantly turning your ship).

Here's one of my posts from another discussion that I think pertains to this topic:

True north is the axis of Earth's rotation, or the axis around which the stars rotate, depending on your preference.

Magnetic north is actually not very close to true north. Check it out here Nor is it stationary. The magnetic pole is close to 10 degrees away from true north, toward Canada, and moves aprox. 40 Km a year (that's 25 miles). Whereas the South magnetic pole is just off the coast of Australia.

Yes, that means the South Pole is not at all on the 'ice wall', resulting in quite strange compass results in South America and Africa . . . Hell, the entire surface of the Earth, except those places reasonably close between a line connecting the magnetic north and south.

Thanks again! you do a great job of showing the the world is a globe.
(Actually the South pole is just off the coast of Antarctica, south of Australia, but that's just a clarification)
With the North and South poles both on the surface of the earth, it proves that the earth is not flat, the magnetic fields can not be bent to both appear on the surface of a flat plane, without being unbalanced.

It would be like laying a bar magnet on a piece of paper, the lines of force would radiate out from a line connecting the two poles.  

Very cool proof of a globe.

20

Flat Earth Q&A / Bad Astronomy

« on: January 10, 2007, 09:53:44 AM »

the arc is subtle, but there

You may need to correct the pin balance on your monitor, because it's absolutely flat for me, without any trace of a bulge. For visualization here is an resized version of the scene with a one pixel black line which runs along the horizon. You will notice that there is no bulge.



According to Eviltoothpaste's amature equations, the ocean falls 70 feet every 20 miles due to curvature of the earth. If this horizon scene is one hundred miles long then the ocean should have dropped 350 feet. That's the height of a 35 story building. This should have created a significant bulge.

Besides, a 350 foot difference in an image of more than 528000 feet is less than .067%, not an easily seen difference.

21

Flat Earth Q&A / Bad Astronomy

« on: January 10, 2007, 09:49:13 AM »

the arc is subtle, but there

You may need to correct the pin balance on your monitor, because it's absolutely flat for me, without any trace of a bulge. For visualization here is an resized version of the scene with a one pixel black line which runs along the horizon. You will notice that there is no bulge.



According to Eviltoothpaste's amature equations, the ocean falls 70 feet every 20 miles due to curvature of the earth. If this horizon scene is one hundred miles long then the ocean should have dropped 350 feet. That's the height of a 35 story building. This should have created a significant bulge.

And if anyone cares to see, all they have to do is save your image locally, open it in paint, zoom to about 200%, and look near the sun, there are clearly "water" pixels above your line.  

So thanks, you have succeded in proving the curve of the earth.

22

Flat Earth Q&A / Bad Astronomy

« on: January 09, 2007, 08:06:53 PM »

Besides, even in the RE model a person can really only see 20 miles in either direction. With a supposed circumference of 24900 miles, the viewer would not be able to discern the world's curvature from a boat 20 miles out.

If you honestly calculate the curvature of the Earth (say, how many feet drop for every mile you go out from an observer), it is pretty significant over 20 miles.   In the FAQ there is a link to a book that does the calculation.  

Well I can't find the webpage anymore, but I'll do the calculations for you, and post the derivation and results.

If the curvature of the earth at 20 miles is as significant as you say it it, look at this large image of this ocean horizon and compare its curvature with a ruler. The picture shows a vast tract of water, probably well over one hundred miles in length. Pixel for pixel, the horizon is completely flat.

http://www.sethwhite.org/images/summit2004/summit%20camp/sunset%203.jpg

I'm not affiliated in any way with this sethwhite.org, so don't try to claim I "photoshopped it flat."

I suggest you get a better monitor, because on my flat screen, I can easily see the rise in the middle when I place a flat edge along the image.

Your's is about the fifth time someone has posted a similar image, and all of them have had the same result.  I have even tried this in real life looking out over the pacific, and with much less effect looking at the rim of the grand canyon (less reliable, but I checked anyway).  I've even held a straight edge up to an airline window.  Same thing.  the arc is subtle, but there.

23

Technology, Science & Alt Science / I am God

« on: January 09, 2007, 10:23:48 AM »

I am the 10th Dimension. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

Wasn't that an old rock group?...or was that the fourth?

24

Flat Earth Q&A / Bad Astronomy

« on: January 08, 2007, 06:11:50 PM »

Well I am sorry to say that Ptolemy was sorely mistaken.

Well, you should be sorry to say such a thing.  Glad you apologized. : )

25

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 08, 2007, 01:36:54 PM »

Ninja, if you had actually taken the time to read the thread you would realize that what Monkey is saying is ridiculous.

Obviously we can't plot a straight line course running west in the FE model. For the simple reason that "west" in the FE model is not a straight line! This fact is not particularly interesting, nor is it relevant.

The only way to tell if you're following a direct heading in either model is through use of a compass.

Following a compass south-east from the same location in either model will bring you to the same location.

Ever hear of a sextant?

26

Flat Earth Q&A / Geography question

« on: January 08, 2007, 01:32:06 PM »

It changes from heading south to heading north.

yeah on the compass it does, but it doesnt turn. its still a straigh line.

If you were taking this trip on a boat, how would you know you were going in a straight line?  Exactly, using a compass.

Not all compasses are magnetic, most advanced navigational systems use gyroscopic compasses, because of potential error in magnetic navigation (Iron deposits, electrical storms, not to mention the whole declination problem since True north and Magnetic North are not in Sync (and Magnetic North keeps moving).

27

Flat Earth Q&A / Bad Astronomy

« on: January 08, 2007, 01:20:11 PM »

I don’t see what the problem is. In both RE and FE the stars should behave exactly the same. In California the Northern star would seem to be at an acute angle. At the North Pole the Northern star would seem to be directly overhead at a right angle.

Except (and this has been brought up in several threads) The paths of the stars in the northern hemisphere seem to arc around the celestial north pole, the paths of the starts in the south seem to arc around the southern celestial pole, in a flat earth model, this would cause them to diverge at the equator, which they do not.

Or to put more simply, how can the southern cross be viewed as being in the south along all points of the southern hemisphere, while at the same time, the north star maintains it's position to the north in the northern hemisphere?  It means that both must be nearly aligned with the axis of rotation.  With two points of axis the Flat Earth is impossible.

28

The Lounge / Stop the promotion of Witchcraft and Sin in our schools!

« on: January 08, 2007, 12:34:54 PM »

You are defending those that hate black people, therefore you must support them.

So the only people hated are Black?
There are more than two races in this world.

29

The Lounge / I ROCK

« on: January 08, 2007, 11:50:40 AM »

My gf asked me to marry her. Im only 17 and I gots no idea if I'm even allowed to be married at this age (she's 19). So... I think I rock

Isn’t that illegal in the US?

That's controlled by the states, depending on the laws, the marriage could be legal, but to consummate it would not.

Also means you could legally be married, travel to another state and have your spouse arrested for statutory rape and corruption of a minor.

30

Flat Earth Q&A / Common Sence

« on: January 08, 2007, 11:08:48 AM »

Observable phenomenons have nothing to do with board games. If you think they do, then you are stupid.

I'll make a mental note that humor is no longer acceptable in this forum.

And Diego doesn't know an RPG from a board game.