1

The Lounge / Re: I got banned from Christian Forums....

« on: December 14, 2009, 07:42:19 AM »

54.3442562% of all supporting Facts are made up on the spot.

Sorry, couldn't resist

2

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: I tried the step off your chair experiment

« on: December 14, 2009, 07:27:33 AM »

Well since we have some more people on board!! Howdy all!

I've been attempting to keep this as simple as possible, but since we have opened up the can of worms let's go ahead... I'll still keep it short however and see where we go

"Speed of light is relative dammit!!!" (I'm paraphrasing of course )
Ok, relativistic terms are necessarily deemed by the observer and the environment when using this scenario yes?

If using large masses (such as the Flat Earth) opposed to individual particles - the problem ensues:
How many observers are there on Earth these days? How far apart are they? How spatially displaced from each other are they and what kind of effect is that going to have when I look over at you working on your roof while I'm raking the leaves in my front yard 4 doors down?

No effect? Drastic effect? A little bit of an effect? Oh Hohhhh... Waxon...Waxoff...

I am curious to see your responses!!!

Take care all and thanks for chiming in,
- Optimus

3

Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: How does Insurance work?

« on: December 14, 2009, 07:16:12 AM »

I really think it should be a choice. I completely see the benefit - especially as noted for younger drivers, however I am rather disenchanted with being *required* to hold any sort of the policies that keep increasing over the years. Not just in rates, but the number and type of them, personally and in business :\

I'll say another thing, slightly off topic but still relevant, the very first time I 'forget' about a form or policy and someone comes and tries to install a camera in MY HOUSE - is the day I go to jail for beating that person with a stick.

That actually just happened to a buddy I used to work with at Jack Henry who just moved back home to London last year. OMG can you believe that crap?!

Sorry.. just got off the pone w/ him - this totally blows my mind. Forced policies, provided or not, so now we can watch your butt 24hrs a day.. wow man.. just holy wow.

Take care,
- Optimus

4

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Why does a rock fall, according to FET?

« on: December 14, 2009, 02:48:52 AM »

Parsec - that is beautimus man. I may not be an FEer, but that is just beautimus.

As far as continental drift, I don't see why it couldn't be caused by the same principles as a Round Earth theory... is there anything denying a possible molten or shifting "core" to the innards of the Flat Earth? I don't see why this would not be a possibility anyway.

Anyway like I said, that's some really nice figgerin' and it's nice to see.

Win.

Take care,
- Optimus

5

The Lounge / Re: This site makes my day sometimes...

« on: December 14, 2009, 01:49:34 AM »

Honestly... I love this site too, because it is filled with fantastic enjoyable debates and discussions - and very entertaining people like yourself you post sentences like this one:

"I'm surprised that most of you know how to type, let allow string together a few semi-coherent sentences. "

LOL... ah the fun never ends. Please, continue to express your superior intellect it amuses me as well!! I await your next installment with great anticipation! 

6

Flat Earth General / Re: Galleleo or Ramsay

« on: December 14, 2009, 01:33:49 AM »

I think my intelligence was knocked down a few points after reading this.

What mean do you? I it thought great was!! I mean it saw really formitative IMOH

Cake Tare
-Opus

7

Flat Earth Debate / Re: Ham Radio and Moonbounce

« on: December 14, 2009, 01:03:28 AM »

Ok, for a fellow HAM I will go ahead and expose myself here as I really enjoy these discussions:
KB0RQB here and 73s by the way...
For those in the USA you can look that up on the ARRL website for easier lookup than the FCC. Both are perfectly unique and indisputable sources for identification, and if you'd like I can provide proof of my own identity as well.

If anyone would like, I'd be happy to discuss in detail the following, but I won't bore you with details unless requested. I will just state that it is indeed factual, and again state I can back it up with plenty of whatever proofs and demonstrations if you would like. Radio is rather fun.

I think a very simple example, which may have been provided here already (I skipped to the end sorry - getting tired), is atmospheric bounce, as it does not just travel in a straight line - it bounces multiple times off of the atmosphere, from your station - up, then down to the ground, then back up again, down again, and so on - until it comes back around ... when conditions are ideal. This works really well around 8 and 10 meters.

Now then, the major kicker here is the following:

I'm in Missouri, USA. Say I point My Antenna towards California right? Well, not only might I make a contact in say... New Jersey, I may also make a contact in China, then Turkey, then Spain or Portugal, THEN New Jersey, etc.

Now the problem with all that is that kind of radio propagation is only going to happen line of sight. It doesn't matter what kind of magnetic or bouncy medium you try to come up with - the amount of time it takes to come back to you - at the frequencies being used - only allows for a straight line - with a travel distance between the Earth, atmosphere, and known wavelength.

So basically, an entirely Flat Earth, especially one that has no option for an underside - no possibility for reflection or deflection around it's "sides" to continue around it with the land masses laid out in a straight line as seen on a world map: it can't happen.

I've tried to work it out in some sort of FE and will continue to give it a shot, but off the vuff - I just don't see it.

Take care all,
- Optimus

8

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: pictures of earth from space?

« on: December 13, 2009, 11:56:39 PM »

Seriously man I gotta step in here. I've been gone a long time and just got back to this forum, but I can tell you there are a lot of smart people in here, and some that are down-right genius level, and I am currently working on my masters. What does that prove about me? Nothing.. what it does prove though is that although I believe the Earth is round, I truly enjoy coming in here and having debates, joining discussions, testing theories, and even coming up with new ones that attempt to either disprove or *prove* a Flat Earth.

There is absolutely no need for you to be such a tightwad about this. Ask polite, intelligent, and well formulated questions - and you will get answers here.

If you make a really good case, then it might even turn into a fun and heated discussion! WOW! :p

Anyway, my .02

And shoot, come up with something better than the northern lights man. I can give you several possibilities.

One off the cuff: The Flat Earth still has a magnetic field right? It is supposedly under a constant acceleration through space, therefore all particles and radiation encountered are going to spill off around the Earths protective magnetic and atmospheric layers which would be the most concentrated at it's center and circumference.

Simple. Northern and "Southern" lights.

C-Me!
- Optimus

9

Flat Earth General / Re: Galleleo or Ramsay

« on: December 13, 2009, 10:22:34 PM »

ah ... > uh ..eh  ' haau  hh

*whew* it all makes sense now. The Crystal People have come - no worries - Raa is simply being used as a spatial conduit and is shorting out due to minor polarity issues. Should be fine when they leave in Dec. 2012 methinks

10

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: pictures of earth from space?

« on: August 20, 2009, 02:15:45 PM »

But... Bugs Bunny threw a baseball around the world... and it came back BEHIND him... So the world MUST be round. It's the only logical explanation.

Yeah, a cartoon, that proves so much. 

Wow, somebody's sense of humor is broken.

It's not as much a lack of sense of humor, as the fact that joke was terrible.

You'll pardon me if I don't take pointers on humor from someone who's stupid enough to believe the earth is flat.  Just sayin'.

11

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.

« on: August 20, 2009, 02:14:24 PM »

But isn't that the problem of the whole FE movement?  The paradigm sort of goes as follows:

(1.) Believe everything without proof.

Nope.  FE'ers will tell you to read Earth Not a Globe and then repeat the experiments found within so that you can come to your own conclusions.

Yeah, only Earth Not a Globe is a huge PILE written by a fucking chimp who was so embarrassed of his retardation that he had to use a pseudonym to publish his laughable gobbledy-gook.  And everybody still rightly laughed him off.

12

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: So, there are all those "fake" pictures of the "round Earth"...

« on: August 20, 2009, 02:12:17 PM »

No. You just have to take their word for it that the Earth is flat and just believe it.

Or you could actually think things through and realize that a flat earth is the only logical conclusion.

I'm incredibly simple. Help me think things through and tell me more about logic.

I'd start with Earth Not A Globe. He has simple experiments that you can recreate yourself proving the shape of the earth. The full text is free online here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/index.htm

Yeah, I looked at that and I used logic to decide it was bunk as he misrepresented many, many things, didn't measure many things that would factor in, and so on. Oh, I also found this in a critical analysis:

Garwood's flat-Earthers employ a peculiar brand of inverted logic to bulwark their odd beliefs. Samuel Rowbotham, who lectured and wrote widely about the flat Earth in the mid-1800s under the pseudonym "Parallax," described the Earth as a flat, stationary disk centered on the North Pole, ringed at its outer edges by an impenetrable barrier of ice. The Sun circled overhead, only a few hundred miles up, and the Moon and stars were luminous bodies not much farther away. If challenged during a speech, Rowbotham would confidently cite abstruse technicalities or invent spurious data. What caused day and night if the Earth did not turn? The "expansion and contraction of the solar path" and a "special law of perspective." Since we can't see the North Star from south of the equator, isn't the Earth round? Not so: on 23 January, 1862, the North Star was seen from a spot 23 degrees south of the equator. The speaker's resolve in the face of tough counterclaims was enough to persuade at least a few members of his audience.

Citation: Marschall, Laurence A. "Flat Earth: The History of an Infamous Idea.(Book review)." Natural History 117.7 (Sept 2008): 36(2).

Huh, I will agree that most of what he said was fairly spurious.

Well, I respect your beliefs, but mine happen to differ. A flat earth is what makes sense in my eyes, and I don't believe what he said was spurious at all. I think he was a very intelligent man and it's a shame he's being remembered like this.

Well that's because you're a retard.

Hey, I never said I respected YOUR cockamamie bullshit beliefs.  Rowbotham is rightly remembered as a fucking looney, because that's what he was.

13

Flat Earth General / Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

« on: August 20, 2009, 02:08:58 PM »

Hah...I agree.

But it made much more sense than the OP.

The OP stopped coming to this site a while ago
Last Active:     October 06, 2008, 12:50:42 PM

So, don't expect an answer soon, unless some other FE'er feels like dealing with your tl;dr.

Oh, I'm quite sure they'll ignore it just as they do every other set of facts that effectively topples their tower of BS.

14

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: pictures of earth from space?

« on: August 20, 2009, 10:03:44 AM »

But... Bugs Bunny threw a baseball around the world... and it came back BEHIND him... So the world MUST be round. It's the only logical explanation.

Yeah, a cartoon, that proves so much. 

Wow, somebody's sense of humor is broken.

15

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Okay. I want pictures of this ice wall.

« on: August 20, 2009, 06:18:02 AM »

I know I'm not in this thread at all, but I just want to point out that bit_pattern's picture is a picture of some ice at Mt. Kilimanjaro.  An honest FE'er wouldn't use pictures as evidence, since--by their own admittance--they can be faked.

But isn't that the problem of the whole FE movement?  The paradigm sort of goes as follows:

(1.) Believe everything without proof.
(2.) Claim that proof is unavailable.  Blame a conspiracy for that.
(3.) When confronted with devastating and damning proof contrary to your belief, dismiss it out of hand as "faked" or doctored, giving not a moment's thought or regard to it and not seeking to scientifically repudiate it.
(4.) Assume that the government is amazingly efficient and can carry out insanely complex cover-ups for centuries on end, even governments that have been shown to be unable to operate something as mundane as social security without massively screwing up.
(5.) Relax and find comfort in your beliefs, knowing they can never be proven--and instead of admitting they aren't real, just say they're being covered up.
(6.) Place the burden of proof on everybody else but yourself.

16

Flat Earth Q&A / Re: So, there are all those "fake" pictures of the "round Earth"...

« on: August 20, 2009, 05:40:04 AM »

Q: "Why has no one taken a photo of the Earth that proves it is flat?"

A: Only those connected to the Conspiracy have access to heights from which the shape of the Earth can be discerned.  Also, nobody has been to the edge of the Earth and lived; conditions on the Ice Wall get increasingly treacherous the further you get out, and navigation methods become unreliable that far south.  It is also possible that the Conspiracy is guarding the edge to prevent people from getting too close to the truth.

That's only the biggest cop-out ever, one used by every nutjob for whatever cockamamie theory they desperately cling to.  It negates their need for solid evidence and excuses them from scientific method.  All they say is "we can't prove it, the conspiracy is stopping us" and expect the rest of us to move on as though that's the end of the scientific queries??

Proof, please. 

17

Flat Earth General / Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

« on: August 20, 2009, 05:33:17 AM »

Hah...I agree.

But it made much more sense than the OP.

18

Flat Earth General / Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

« on: August 19, 2009, 10:44:46 PM »

Conclusive Mathematics:

Basically, I'm going to assume that every single person on my list wants to get paid so that they won't talk about the conspiracy. They're going to want a lot of it, too, most likely. Probably enough so that they won't have to work for the rest of their lives? Well, how's about something like one million dollars per year, plus one million in advance. That's far better than most jobs can fetch, and all they have to do is shut up. Minus the top five or so, since they are the runners of the organization.

The runners?  Coming from someone so "conclusive," I really expected someone a tad bit more erudite, if not a master of basic grammar.

Actually a million dollars isn't very much anymore.  It's not even enough to keep you rich these days.  Nice job aping Dr. Evil, though. 

That brings us to 40 x 1,000,000.

Actually, it doesn't.  Your last count was 45.  At least be consistent!  (And don't forget, the half-persons, whatever they are.) 

Forty million dollars plus forty million every year? Sure, it's plenty of cash, but NASA receives so much more money than that from just governmental funds, and while I don't know much about Russian space teams, I'm sure they do, too. They can easily pay for this, and the undernoted requirements for money, without even breaking a sweat; in fact, they'll be probably pulling a profit, just from the government giving them cash.

You don't know much about Russian space teams...nor anything else, if your rant is to be believed as genuine. 

You're forgetting about NASA's astronomical (pun intended) overhead.  Whether or not you believe the rockets they shoot up actually go and stay in space, you have to concede that they ACTUALLY BUILD THEM.  That costs what we like to refer to in the real world as MONEY.  Lots and lots of it, frankly.  And since some of you don't believe that it's possible to actually orbit Earth, you have to assume that these rockets and shuttles that are getting shot into the sky are either ending up as space junk or crashing down around the heads of the Ice Wall guards.  (That would mean there were actually 28 DIFFERENT Columbia shuttles.)  That's a lot of hardware to build and shoot to shit, especially for a group that's all about makin' that fat cheddar!

And don't forget, there's Space Camp!  And research centers, museums, etc.

But seriously though, have you ever visited a NASA facility?  I have!  I have!  They employ an epic shit-ton of people.  Everyone from astronauts down to the filing clerks. 

So essentially what you're telling me is that in order for these BIG THREE people in NASA to make obscene amounts of money, they have to blow up a ton of rockets, blow a bunch of money on fake props, hire thousands of people (who, by the way, are NOT making minimum wage) to look legit, and somehow still turn a profit?  REALLY?  In what universe does this kind of scheme actually work?

How about this more likely scenario:  (Bear with me...I've borrowed some of this from cracked.com in interest of full disclosure.  Other parts I've outright plagiarized, but they make my point.)

First, how much would it take for you to keep your mouth shut?

Let's just assume that since 1959, NOT ONE PERSON has talked.  Out of the thousands who know.  Hell, out of the 500 odd astronauts, nobody talked, not even when drunk, not even during sex, not even to their priest, not even on their deathbed.

There are still a TON of people who could've blown the whole lid off this, but because someone wrote them a check, they kept it to themselves.  That includes folks like you, honest researchers who want to know the truth and who have dedicated their lives to science.  It includes countless numbers of scientists.  (Remember, if you're going with the PR angle, you have to have "expert witnesses" espousing your case!  Some scientists and authors would have to be paid and paid mightily!)

Every astronaut, all of mission control, not just here, but in every single country that has achieved space flight.  They have not only lied to us, but also to each other and to their very own families.

And every science textbook writer is going to have to be on the payroll too.  And that means that someone in the departments of education will have to know.  That takes us out of NASA and into the Federal Government (which is notoriously BAD at keeping ANYTHING a secret.)

Also reporters and scientific journalists who were honestly seeking the truth have been paid enough to walk away from the story of a lifetime, a chance to blow the lid off the conspiracy. Paid enough to refuse a sure Pulitzer and a lifetime of fame and riches as one of history's greatest heroes. And paid in such a way that no other reporters would notice and get jealous or ask questions. These people do tend to be the curious type, you know.

We're getting a nice sized payroll here.

Let's not forget, you have to have the TV networks in the tank.  After all, these people are experts in the field of imagery, and if the government or a government agency like NASA passes something fraudulent off, they stand to profit more from EXPOSING it than simply being complicit.  Many a TV news man's career has been made by bringing down the rich and powerful.

But wait, there's more. Because there are hundreds of thousands of scientists and experts that are constantly evaluating these sorts of things looking for flaws. Approximately zero of them say the moon landings were fake, aside from a crackpot/head here or there.

The conspiracy guys' explanation?

You guessed it. They were paid to stay silent. Hey, why not? Probably half a million people there, but, you know. Since we've got the checkbook out anyway...

Also, think of all of the friends and family of these paid conspirators, who suddenly see all this mysterious wealth...

You've got some hypothetical astronaut who was about to go public saying that all flights are staged, suddenly coming into Powerball-sized wealth and abandoning his moral conviction at the same time... his wife never let it slip? His kids didn't object? All his jealous colleagues who noticed the sudden new cars and new home and elaborate vacations, nobody asked questions? Nobody made an anonymous call to the IRS, just out of spite? All the bank employees who noticed thousands of mysterious deposits, all of which have to be reported to the IRS, that didn't leave a trail?

I mean, we're up to a sizeable portion of the US population here. Odds are you've passed some of these people on the street.  Odds are you ARE one of these people or have met them.

Today.

And keep in mind, this can't be chump change. Even in a world where every structural engineering desk jockey is okay with mass delusion, they're still not going to risk jail and career ruin and walk away from a huge book deal for ten grand. Oh, no, it's got to be millions, per person, just to make it worth it. Even a dedicated conspirator would need to know he or she was set for life.

Let's say they wrote 500,000 checks (hell, you've got more than 300,000 people on the NASA payroll alone, and they'd be the first ones to speak out). Say the average payout was ten million (barely enough to live rich the rest of your life, but let's just say). So that's 500,000 times ten million which is...

...Five TRILLION dollars.

That's about half of the value of all goods and services produced in the United States last year. Therefore the NASA conspiracy was, in terms of payroll, the single largest employer in the history of the world.

Maintenance:

There doesn't need to be all that much maintenance, besides damage control. The space exploration programs have maintenance funds from their respective governments, so they're all self-sufficient without having to spend excess money on maintaining the conspiracy (seeing as all the cash they're not spending on research can be spent on the conspiracy).
The only reason extra money might need to be poured into the conspiracy would be for damage control. If we say that this would cost somewhere around five million per year, that still only leaves us with forty-five million per year.

Huh?  Maintenance costs would be through the roof!  Again, overhead alone...NASA employs 300,000 if you include all the contractors... plus building rockets that aren't going anywhere?  Jeez, it's not like the BIG THREE are just sitting in the Bahamas drawing a check.  With that, and the cost of keeping the conspiracy quiet, the Big Three would be LOSING MONEY LEFT AND RIGHT.

*UPDATED*
Ice Wall Guarding:

Now, I'm going to take this, and say that we need about one-thousand men guarding the wall, again with two shifts each, if we include cameras, infrared, radar, intelligence, and all that good stuff. This is more than I stated previously, but bear in mind that I had been very generous with the amount those men had been paid. Now, seeing as the men practically have no influence (all they do is guard an ice wall; it's not like it's probable they have a lot of friends at all, let alone ones in high places), they don't necessarily need a very grand rate of pay. Therefore I'm dropping my previous estimate to a simple one-hundred thousand dollars per person. That still leaves us with the same amount of two-million dollars to pay for every guard in the wall forces.

I'm going to for the moment dismiss Erasmus' quote (rightly) as the ravings of a lunatic.

So what exactly do these guards work for, if not pay.  Do they just enjoy seeing if their tongues will stick to flagpoles? 

Fuck, why not just have a bunch of robots?  (Damn...wish I hadn't said that.)

And you're telling me that in the entire history of the world, no Ice Wall guard has gotten fed up, said "fuck it," and bad-assed his way back to land to tell everybody what was going on?

CONSPIRACY MONEY TOTAL = $47,000,000 USD (Forty-Million U.S. Dollars)

No.  Moron.  Would you please take an Econ 101 class?  Or at very least, get a real job?  I understand if you don't know much about money and management if all you've ever done is telemarketing from your parents' basement, but please...get a realistic perspective!

Second Topic:
How Does The Conspiracy Benefit?

This is not easily answered, but I've taken some insight into this and made some estimates on how the conspiracy could be making money:

Government Paychecks:
It's very possible that the conspiracy runs by just sucking money out of the government that they are underneath. Seeing as the head honchos in those governments don't have to know about the conspiracy, it'd be pretty easy to take money from the government. Also, even if the leaders DID know, it's tax money that's going into the space exploration research, so really, they'd still be pulling profit. Basically, if you chose to believe this option, the leaders of the conspiracy are taking tax money and getting filthy stinking rich off of it. Sounds like a motive to me.

Have YOU ever tried to take money from the government?  Seriously.  Try cheating the IRS out of $20K and see if they notice.  And see above for why NASA nor the Big Three would be making profit.

Display of Power:
Some people are control freaks. Maybe they get a rush from showing that they can change everyone's mind about the true shape of the Earth.

Well I'll be dipped in shit and rolled in bread crumbs!  You've figured this whole thing out!  Apparently NASA is run by Criss Angel.  How will we dominate the people?  Oh wait, I know!  We'll fuck up their concept of geography!

Maybe you get a rush from being RETARDED.

No, really.  You actually think three people, all of whom are apparently Andy Kaufman, are seriously paying out BILLIONS of dollars, employing over a quarter of a million people, launching rockets into outer space ALL FOR A MINDFUCK???

Embarrassment:
So, the government messed up at a really bad time to mess up, and they've been pooling all of the already-angry tax-payers' money into research that eventually led to a less-than-exciting discovery: The Earth is flat. Everyone was wrong. Millions (probably billions) of dollars of money that didn't really belong to them had been basically tossed down the drain for research of the round Earth, when, in fact it was flat. So, instead of angering people and possibly even sparking a revolt of some sort, they made up some stuff. And you know how lies tend to roll and get bigger and bigger until they're inescapable? I'd say a worldwide conspiracy is that concept...to the max.

So they'd spend millions upon millions of dollars to keep propagating the same mistake?

Hellfire, talk about brittle egos!  You're telling me that some of the finest scientific minds in the world would just say "oops" and make the world look the other way, stifling millenia of potential scientific progress and discoveries, all because they're embarrassed that they were wrong about something?

If science worked that way, we'd never get anywhere.  Hell, we'd still be sacrificing virgins to the volcano gods.  And we're into our second and third generations of this, right?  I know my generation enjoys pointing and laughing at our parents' fuckups.  I'm pretty sure we'd do that for flat earth too.  "I can't BELIEVE you thought the Earth was round, Dad!"

Recruitment/Faithfulness:
Similar to the one above. Maybe the future-conspirators were ashamed that they hadn't reached out to space yet, and they felt that the people were getting hasty and impatient with them, so they decided to say they did it, and qualm the welling resentment of them, so they could ACTUALLY send people into space on a later date, without a bunch of morons knocking on their doorstep asking when they would be done with their space ship. Unfortunately, they later realized that they were wrong the whole time, and therefore had to uphold the conspiracy, lest they be accused of lying, and therefore reverting the resentment to its original state.

Maybe?  I thought this was supposed to be conclusive.

Couldn't really comprehend the rest of this.  I'm sure you said something...just not sure what.  I gather you think that the first space launch was faked because they didn't want to look like assholes by not actually doing it.  And now they keep on faking it, because they faked it once, and are now stuck in an endless loop of fake.  Still, it seems like an awfully STUPID thing to spend BILLIONS on.

Third Topic:
What If Someone Squeals?

"Yes," you say, "but what happens when someone leaks the information?"

Why You WOULD Leak Conspiracy Information:

Fame:
You officially proved that the Earth is actually flat. You'll be in history books for ages!

Money:
Interviews with every news station and every magazine ever. You'll be a huge celebrity, and as such, you'll probably be making a fair amount of cash...at least for a little while.

Peace of Mind:
It's probably tough to keep that stuff in your head without leaking some of it out every once in a while. It'd be a lot on your conscience.

If you had posted only this, I'd buy you a beer and tell you what a good man you are.  I'd even let you date my sister.

Why You Would NOT Leak Conspiracy Information:

Fame:
Some people don't like being in the spotlight all that much. Paparazzi can get annoying, and even though attention may appear to be entertaining, it can get old pretty fast.

Uhhhhh....

I'm thinking that having all that MONEY would be very much helpful in overcoming stage fright.  After all, money buys a compound, guards, and plenty of friends.  (Isn't that how it works for the Big Three?)

Money:
You no longer get the big fat paychecks from the conspirators. After all of the press wears out, and starts ignoring you again--meaning no more cash from interviews--you'll probably have to start working again.

But you'll START getting big fat paychecks from every media outlet in the world, to say nothing of speaking engagements, academic appointments, and grants for everything you want from now on.  One could make the argument that someone who conclusively proved a flat earth would make MORE by squealing than by keeping their mouth shut.

Peace of Mind:
You just screwed over all of your friends, just because you wanted a few minutes of fame and a lot of cash. Congratulations.

As opposed to screwing all the world and scientific progress by keeping your mouth shut???  Seriously, if I could prove FE beyond the shadow of a doubt, or if I could prove the space program was bollocks, I would feel it my obligation to tell as many people as possible.  Isn't that how you guys feel?  Isn't that why you have this site?

Insanity:
If you don't have enough proof, you won't be revered as a revolutionary, you'll be revered as Patient #3562 at the local mental hospital.

Death:
While a most likely uncommon side-effect, NASA could easily kill you and say, "He died in a space shuttle accident, I swear." Honestly, by the way it seems on TV, those things are so unstable, no one would ever EVER doubt that someone died while in space due to some random accident (add a bunch of jargon and you've got an incredibly convincing reason for death).

Ahhhh, I was waiting for the old "they'll just off you if you squeal" line.  Because it's so easy to do that to everyone who jumps out of line.  To say nothing of appeasing all of their husbands, wives, children, parents, etc. 

Besides, if they were going to kill people for publishing the truth, and you guys really have it right...well?  (And yes, I've read your obnoxiously inept and insufficient FAQ.  All I know is this...if you even had it half right, you wouldn't be here, no matter how much they think you're a crackpot.

Topic Four:
Conclusive Notes:

As you can see, the conspiracy is not only logical, but it's, in its own way, actually quite plausible. With all of these concepts in your face, it's hard to refute AT LEAST the possibility of a conspiracy covering up the shape of the Earth. If anyone wants to rebuttal, though, I gladly welcome it (in fact, I'm probably missing a lot of stuff--but hey, I'm only one guy), and I'll add more to this compendium (hence why it's a compendium).

(1.) NOT conclusive.

(2.) NOT logical, as shown above.

(3.) NOT plausible, again as shown above.

(4.) Concepts are in my face, but retarded.

(5.) EASY to refute.

(6.) POSSIBLE, but infinitely unlikely.

(7.) Consider yourself rebutted.

SO STOP MAKING CONSPIRACY THREADS!!

No you!

19

Flat Earth General / Re: The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

« on: August 19, 2009, 10:43:58 PM »

The Conclusive Categorical Conspiracy Compendium

Conclusive...hmm...let's see, shall we?  (And yes, I realize this was posted in 2006, but as it is linked from the FAQ, it deserves to be thoroughly picked apart, if possible.)

Okay. There has been way too many threads asking about the same damned question, and too many people saying that the governments can't pull together a conspiracy as such, and what not. This will conclusively prove that it is entirely plausible, profitable and, hopefully, probable. Expect me to reference this any time you ask a stupid question about the conspiracy again.

Careful how you use the words "conclusively prove."  Also, be careful...this is science, right?  There ARE no stupid questions.  (Arguably, there is no conclusive proof for anything either.)

First Topic:
How Can They Afford the Conspiracy?

Good question.  Let's see what you say.

Bribes
Let's look at this liberally (keep in mind these are probably near maximized estimates).

Ah, but you'd actually have to be in on the conspiracy yourself to know whether or not these are "maximized."  In any case, "probably near maximized estimates"??  What the heck does THAT mean?  Careful you don't trip over your own doublespeak!

Who DOES Need to Know:
NASA -- Okay, so the top three (at most) need to know, we'll say. These are the guys who actually are controlling the conspiracy, and maybe some of the profit is divided amongst them, but they don't need to be bribed to shut their mouths, and thus have no leverage amongst the others. If we say about three other people in NASA know about it, who are helping with image editing, video editing, and general coverage, but working closely with the top three.

THREE???  Sigh...  Have you ever worked in a group of three for any period of time?  I've never known a group of three (other than the Stooges) who didn't eventually turn on one another, especially when the stakes are high.  Almost inevitably, two gang up and force the third out in order to maximize their cut.  

Also, this word "leverage"...  With apologies to Mandy Patinkin, I do not think this word means what you think it means.

But let's say you're right, and three people run the show and three others help out with all the doctored footage and photos.  That's a staff of six people who are in on the whole joke.  

Do you happen to know how many people it takes to create a single episode of the show "Family Guy"??  One twenty-two minute episode takes FIVE HUNDRED people to produce.  It takes a crew of roughly fifteen people to run your live local nightly newscast (2 anchors, 1 weatherman, 2 to 3 camera operators, 1 producer, 1 person switching cameras, 1 person running the Chyron, 1 person running the audio mixer, 1 person running master control, 1 person running tapes/archived footage, 2 or 3 live reporters, 1 person running the live cam, 1 person running the satellite uplink...and this is assuming that the anchors actually write their own copy and operate their own teleprompters, and also excludes station management.)  Are you really expecting me to believe that a crew of SIX PEOPLE faked the whole lunar landing???  Really???  And out of those six people, how many do you think actually have the artistic talent to make the pictures and video believable??

I mean, have you even looked at the credits of any ILM movie?  (And do you know how impossible it is for most movie productions with the tightest security to keep ONE SINGLE LEAK from occurring?  Almost never works.)

You're going to have to up the ante by several thousand people, and that's just at one time.  Since the inception of NASA, people have been born and people have died.  NASA employees have died, hardly any of them fabulously wealthy, and not a single one of them has had a single pang of guilt, not one deathbed confession.   But if your number of SIX is truly accurate, then it is not only likely, but imperative, that the old six have either died or retired, necessitating a new six.  

RASA -- The Russians are just about equal if not more active in space exploration as the US, so we'll say these guys have six people helping out with the conspiracy as well. As a matter of fact, tag one more on, just because I'm generous. That leaves us with thirteen people.

Who are RASA?  I googled them, and all I could find were the Roosevelt Academy Student Association, a 1990's band, a mythical goddess, a Krishna concept, a town in Croatia, a record label, a place in Malaysia, and a Gundam character.  I don't mean to be picky here, but it really helps your credibility if you actually know the names of the entities you're talking about.  So far, though, astute info hasn't really been your strong point.  

But whatever.  You generously give them a maximum of seven people, for a grand total now of thirteen people.  Bear in mind, it took 33 directors to craft the Star Wars films.  But I guess if one of the people were willing to run audio AND props, they could pull it off, right?

China -- Yes, in 2003, China became the third country to independently send a manned spaceship into outer space. However, their space program isn't all that big. As a (very) liberal estimate, we'll say they need about three people. But why don't we tag on one more just to make sure I'm not cheating. That leaves us with seventeen people from the space exploration crews that need to know.

Y'know, I'd almost buy your number with China, because those people CAN keep secrets.  But seriously, three??  You do realize that there 1.3 billion people in China, right?  With your "very liberal estimate" of three people running the conspiracy in China, that would mean the assistant director would have to simultaneously run the cameras, monitor the sound board, operate the boom mic, run master control AND hold the cue cards, right?

GPS Manufacturers -- I'm going to say they only need one person for this job. There's not really much to do. Machines make most of the chips, and I doubt all of the bosses of the companies need to even bother. They just need to have one guy saying, "Yup, that's right." This guy could even be one of the NASA or RASA members, honestly, but I'm being nice. This rings up to a comprehensive total of eighteen people.

The heck??  ONE???  So what happens if that one guy dies?  The GPS companies would be seriously screwed.  For someone who has written such a comprehensive and conclusive piece, you sure don't seem to have much sense about how a business would actually RUN.  At this point, I'm starting to wonder if you're familiar with much more than the cold block walls of your mother's basement!  But surely even the one guy has to have a secretary, right?

Public Relations People -- NASA or RASA conspirators could fill this role, too, but again, generosity has the better of me, and I'm going to say that the conspiracy hires people to do this, too, since the guys in the space exploration teams are filled with a bunch of pale, pimply white guys, and therefore aren't good at convincing people of the truth. We'll say they need a couple of these guys, bringing the total up to a whopping twenty people.

Again with RASA...what does Croatia have to do with this?  

Space exploration teams full of pale, pimply white guys...  jeez, I wonder how Joseph Acaba would feel about that?  (He's Puerto Rican, in case you didn't know.)  Or Mike Adams, James Adamson, Andrew Allen, Michael Anderson (a black guy), or even Neil Armstrong would feel?  None of them are pale, and they appeared--at the time--to have great complexions.  (I didn't even get through the A's!)

But that aside...have you ever worked with a PR agency?  What am I saying...of course you haven't.  You don't just work with TWO people.  You've got your speechwriters, make-up advisors, damage control specialists, spokespeople, assistants... the list goes on.  And even if you're right, you're still only at 20 people.  Slightly more than work on your local nightly newscast.

People Who Have "Been In Space" -- Yes, they need astronauts saying, "Hey! I was up there!" But they're barely part of the conspiracy, they're just people who have a little bit of leverage, and therefore need a bit of bribing. We'll count them as half-people for this count, since they don't really count as conspirators. So, if we have somewhere around fifty people that have "been in space," that means that it counts for about twenty-five conspirators, therefore bringing our total to forty-five which is not as large as is commonly described.

Barely part of the conspiracy?  What... were they drugged and fooled into believing they actually did go to space???  (Suddenly I wish I hadn't asked that question.)  Half-people?  If anyone knows whether or not they went to space, IT IS THEM!  They have the most to hide!  I could possibly concede that a file clerk at NASA might not know the goings-on, but these guys--if what you say is true--all know they did not go to space.  

By the way, your count is WAY the heck off.  Fifty people my ass...there are 510 people who have "been in space."  And these people are being run by six people.  Do you realize what a logistical management nightmare that is???  And do you know the statistical probability that out of 510 people, NOT ONE OF THEM HAS GONE OFF THE SCRIPT??

Ice Wall Guards -- These guys don't need to be paid in full, either, as they're only guarding an ice wall. I believe that it was Erasmus who pulled some mathematics on this one, and showed that not that many people were needed to guard the ice wall. As they don't really have any leverage on the conspiracy, they won't count for this part (I'll go back to it later), since this is mostly about who needs to be paid to shut their mouths.

Here's where you went off into Whackoville (population: you) and fully lost me.  

First, you're trying to tell me a guy who is guarding a FUCKING ICE WALL at the EDGE OF THE WORLD, who constantly battles frostbite, sinus issues, the fact that his pee freezes mid-stream, crippling loneliness, complete seclusion from the world, and absolutely no poontang whatsoever DOESN'T NEED TO BE PAID IN FULL?

I suppose you could argue that they're stationed so remotely that no one would ever see them, but seriously, none of them ever came back to society?  And nobody has ever been sent to the mainland to get new recruits when Ice Guard Number 22 keels over from frostbite to the testicles?

So yes, let's disregard these (fictional) ice wall guardians for now.

That means your figure is now 45.  That's not even enough to pull off a production of "The Toxic Avenger" on Broadway, much less pull the wool over everyone in the world's eyes.  At best, the production values would be something like "Manos The Hands of Fate."

Not so conclusive thus far, I'm afraid.

Who Does NOT Need To Know:

PotUS -- Why would the president need to know? All he knows is that he's giving money to what he thinks is a space exploration team, and then he sees exactly what everyone in the world sees on TV. He doesn't ever need to suspect a damned thing.

I suppose I could agree here.  I guess it depends on which PotUS you're talking about.  It's a non-issue though...doesn't really bolster your argument at all.

Members of Space Teams -- They see exactly what we see as well, but they're sitting on the ground looking at it "Live." That doesn't mean that they know that the people are actually in space, but they can make a really convincing argument towards it, perhaps.

What the hell is a "Space Team"??  Are you referring to Mission Control?  The problem is that they don't just "see it."  They also feel it when the rockets take off.  (This is certainly also witnessed by anyone with eyes in the vicinity.)  And there's really no reason to believe they're NOT up there, unless you believe that they're simply shooting rockets off into nothingness.  I mean, they certainly don't often fall back to Earth anywhere, and those space shuttles do have an annoying tendency of coming back.  (Though I grant that they don't always come back in one piece.)  

The problem is that in order to believe this, you have to also believe that NASA has equipment that functions as commanded 100 percent of the time.  And come on...any of us who watched the Challenger explode in the third grade know THAT isn't the case.  You'd have to assume that all of the monitors in Mission Control are running pre-recorded tape of something.  If it's video...well, if you've ever worked with video at all, you know that it fails and fails OFTEN.  Watch your nightly newscast and see how many mistakes you notice over the next month.  To believe that Mission Control was duped is to believe that NO tape EVER failed in the entire history of launches.  It assumes that nobody accidentally stuck an episode of Full House in, that no machine ever ate the tape during play, that nothing ever got accidentally looped, that the wrong launch wasn't ever mislabelled, etc etc... That simply doesn't happen in the world of television production.

And that's only ONE problem that could happen.

So you can't discount Mission Control.  Some of them would have to know also.

By my count there are literally a thousand people by now who are in on the charade.  None of them told.  

Have you ever tried to keep a secret by telling it to a thousand people?  How about 100?  How about just five?