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Messages - Jesus Crotch

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The Lounge / Re: So I've decided...
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:43:17 PM »
... that I am going to get a vasectomy. Not the reversible one either, the full on cut.

I've read up on it and I really feel this is the best choice for me.


Good luck with that.  I felt the same way about 10 years ago.  Even then, the irreversible procedure was all but abandoned.  Unless there is some medically valid rationale, you will have a very difficult time finding a urologist who will perform the procedure.  At your age, you will likely be required to have at least one session with a counselor before they'd do even a reversible vasectomy on an elective basis.

Just sack up (pun intended), and get some string and a small hatchet.  You have seen BME pain olympics, right?

The Lounge / Re: FDA Bans Flavored Cigarettes
« on: September 23, 2009, 02:29:29 PM »
Faggots = people with a sweet tooth.

Count me, then!

As far as I'm concerned, Ben & Jerry's comes in single-serving containers.  When I open the pint, I throw the lid away.  Sweets are good.

The cigarette thing is fucking stupid.  Young people are more likely to smoke flavored cigarettes than older people because utes do shit like that.  Hell, I smoked cloves when I was in college - it was different, and I was a non-conformist, dammit.  Cloves didn't get me into cigarettes, cigarettes got me into cloves.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Movies
« on: September 12, 2009, 09:07:34 PM »
LOL.  WOTW sucked because it took a classic bit of Sci Fi literature with a really cool history (the original broadcast is amazing to hear when you know how people reacted) and turned it into a poorly acted, formulaic, ham-fisted, commercialized piece of tripe heavy on special effects we've all seen and completely lacking in originality, nuance, depth, or artistic merit.

Compare with, say, the original Terminator, dismissed by the majority as a typical Arnie vehicle, but actually a lesson in Jungian contra-sexual personality theory.  Heavy on special effects, but with nice dollops of good acting (from Hamilton and Biehn, not Schwarzenegger.) and a rich subtext.

You, by the way, are my least favorite kind of film douchebag - short on knowledge, long on opinions, and dripping with a false sense of superiority.

My film vocabulary, which is fairly basic, as I changed my major from Film to Philosophy during my sophomore year, included two double-sided pages for each decade, starting with the 20's (maybe 40-50 films each).  One Truffaut movie, not many other foreign films... some Kurosawa, I think...  Of course a bunch of German stuff from early on.  Truffaut is crap, unless you're into French New Wave, in which case you're an art-film faggot and useless in any discussion regarding any commercial film.


High Noon
The Jerk
Miracle Mile
Blade Runner
The Hunger
Apocalypse Now
A Clockwork Orange
The Cook, the Thief, His Wife, and her Lover.
Wizard of Oz
Star Wars (same story as previous)
Field Of Dreams
Basic Instinct

The Lounge / Re: Welcome to Amerikkka!
« on: September 12, 2009, 07:47:48 PM »
Where we won't show films that go against God, praise be His name.

Charles Darwin film 'too controversial for religious America'

And people wonder why I advocate for the forced sterilization of fundamentalists...

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Further 9/11 discussion
« on: September 12, 2009, 09:04:02 AM »
frankly I think there would be more deaths in Afghanistan if the U.S. pulled out now. it is not at the most stable point.

Their continued occupation in Iraq demonstrates that they would have no intention of pulling out even if that weren't the case.

Well, duh!  Do have any idea how difficult it would be to control their heroin market from outside the country?  It'd be like trying to control Cambodia's without Air America!

The Lounge / Re: What happened to all 8 year old girls in 1994?
« on: September 09, 2009, 10:06:16 AM »
I was an 8 year old girl in 1994!

Wow.  I had already been a Customer Service Manager for a pager company, run three underground clubs, taken around 200 hits of LSD,  and started a company manufacturing bongs, t-shirts, and jewelry by the end of '94.

The Lounge / Re: Post an image of yourself!
« on: August 21, 2009, 10:28:30 AM »

The Lounge / Re: Spotify
« on: August 16, 2009, 09:56:13 AM »
Jesus Crotch, people, just buy the fucking music already.  Fucking mooches!  People work hard to make that music.  They deserve to be paid.

The Lounge / Re: Heart Attack
« on: August 15, 2009, 01:45:12 PM »
LOL.  Thanks, everyone.  

Good to know you're ok. Do you have a stressful job?

My various sources of income do induce some stress, but I vent here and smoke lots of weed, so it usually doesn't bother me too much.

Jesus Christ dude.  Glad you made it back to tell the tale to us.  Hope all is well with you in the near future.  I would send you flowers...but i dont think i really like you that much.   ;)

Cool, I don't like flowers that much.

Shit sucks, I hope it doesn't happen again. Have you drunken a lot of energy drinks in your life? I have, so I plan on having a heartattack right around that time.

Nope!  In fact, due to a sensitivity to stimulants, I haven't had caffeine in any significant quantity for over 15 years.

I eat only Organic meats, get my veggies, I quit smoking well over a year ago...

The Lounge / Heart Attack
« on: August 15, 2009, 12:24:23 AM »
So, how crazy is this?  I cut my hand open pretty good on Wednesday, and went to the hospital.  We're not sure why, but in the ER, I suddenly had an incredibly intense headache,then chest pain and arm pain.  I was in atrial fibrillation for the next five hours or so.  Tachycardia to 212 bpm...  Negative brain CT, negative LP, normal EKG for the two days since.

I'm 35 and in decent shape, if a bit flabby.  WTF??!!

The Lounge / Re: Postcard Exchange
« on: August 08, 2009, 11:10:24 AM »
You can send me one at anytime

Only if I can address it to Professor Gaypenguin.

I don't want to add or remove components of it. I want it off my fucking computer. It's not going to work on my PC anyway since my D:\ drive isn't big enough to install it on(inb4 that's what she said) and it's currently installed on the C:\ drive. I've uninstalled ever component of it, but Acrobat is still there, and if I have to, I will delete the directory and delete all mention of it in regedit, but it's not like I want to. Those motherfuckers at Adobe should fucking learn that some people want to fucking uninstall shit from their computers from time to time. >:(

To clarify, I need to uninstall Adobe master collection CS3, with Adobe Acrobat. It won't let me uninstall Adobe Acrobat whatever I do. Halp?

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

The Lounge / Re: Postcard Exchange
« on: August 08, 2009, 11:04:03 AM »
I will print my own postcards and they will be hi-freaking-larious.  I'm thinking maybe demotivators.  Or goatse.

Yeah, so do another round NAO!

The Lounge / Re: Postcard Exchange
« on: August 06, 2009, 08:45:21 AM »
I guess I could do it if we do another round.  I never have time to post anymore, just lurk, so it'll be nice to talk to someone.

The Lounge / Re: Only douchebags like Mustangs!
« on: August 03, 2009, 10:49:20 AM »
This is a bit like apples and oranges debate, boys, IMO.  I mean, as opinions go, I prefer a car that can handle (the Elise got vetoed), but nothing will ever deliver the rush of a real drag car - nothing hooks like it, nothing pushes you in the back that hard.  Some folks like muscle cars, some like sports cars.

The same was true about the power/handling at the track debate - it just depends on the nature of the track.  Near me, there's a track called Willow Springs, and they actually have several courses at the facility.  'The Big Track', as it's called, is a 'horsepower track', meaning it's design favors more powerful vehicles, usually because of a long flat out section or more than one, or both.  On this track, a brute like a stock GTO (the modern one) will clock times a second or two (on a 1:30ish lap time) faster than, say, an Elise.  On the 'Streets of Willow', which is a tight, twisty second and third-gear track - the Elise will absolutely murder the Goat.  On yet another track at the complex, the Horse Thief Mile, they would be pretty evenly matched - the course is a series of switchbacks - basically hairpin after hairpin after hairpin.  The Goat would be able to stay in the power band and basically drift around the tight radius corners, but wouldn't be able to launch off of them because of all the wheel spin.  The Elise, on the other hand, would stay tight in the corners and blast off the apexes, but be much slower by the end of the straights.

I know, weird coming from me, huh?  I kinda ride the fence, that's why.  I have a '69 Camaro that handles pretty well for a car of its era, but my built '96 Jetta GLX will wipe up the pavement with it in the local hills.  In a straight line, it's not pretty how badly the FWD Jetta gets its ass handed to it.

My daily driver is a compromise between those two and comfort/room for a baby and gear.  '03 540i/6 - Four doors, eight cylinders, a nicely tuned suspension, good brakes, 273HP/325Lb-ft stock, 408HP/462Lb-ft on the nitrous.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Catholic : Humble or Righteous?
« on: July 29, 2009, 02:10:53 PM »
Telling a population with a long standing problem with STD's that condoms are wrong makes you a terrible person.

Good point, but I am not looking to say my church is right in fact I am just out there to find out how good or bad my church acts in other communities.

I know the catholic church says not to use condoms in a marriage but to be abstinent until you choose to have a baby which is easier than I thought with this woman I am married too -_- but back to the point.

In my church community we still believe the rights of the individual when it comes to safe sex should be respected we don't go and shout our beliefs at people saying they are damned to hell for wearing a condom and after all in the arena of the current world really the worst thing we can do is expect abstinence of any kind and hope young people, old people, and monkeys practice safe sex.

This may surprise some of my cohorts here, but I'm going to do my best to take it easy on you, because you seem to be bringing a bit more honesty than smugness to the conversation, and that's refreshing from a christfag.

OK, I am a Recovering Roman Catholic myself.  I made it through first communion, but not to confirmation.  In case you're curious, it was the conflict between the books of the Gospel, which describe an appealing all-loving, all-forgiving god, and the book of Revelations, which really illustrates what an evil, vindictive, bloodthirsty, barbaric bastard YHVH really is that broke the proverbial camel's back.  My priest didn't like my questions, and I didn't like his answers.  It didn't help that he had let my mom know that since she had remarried and couldn't receive communion, she needn't bother coming anymore, but the Michaelsons' were happy to drive me, and I could bring the envelope for the collection basket...

Anyway, to me, it's not about Humble or Righteous.  You and your family may be genuinely good, non-judgmental people, but the RC church is a seething cesspool of bigotry, subjugation, power-mongering, and perversion with a long, frighteningly robust history of evil deeds done in the name of a made-up god.  A few weeks reading (non-christian) historical accounts of the Crusades and the Inquisition - hell, even a couple of hours on Wiki on the subjects - should make it pretty clear.  The church you belong to is not there to help you or anyone else outside the priesthood.

You want to test the 'be kind to homosexual' reality?  Tell your priest you're gay in private, but not in confession.  See how long you feel welcome at mass.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: atheism billboard
« on: July 29, 2009, 01:54:04 PM »

I didn't realize there was a contradiction in Jesus' lineage being traced to David through Joseph.  I know that there are two opposing lineages given for Jesus in the Gospels (and the explanation that has been come up for it is absolutely ludicrous) but this is new to me; what's the contradiction, exactly?

At any rate, I don't see anything inherently wrong with someone putting their faith in a religious work, even if that work is essentially a fairy tale.

Well, yes, Luke has one and Mark the other IIRC, but one of them takes his link to David through Joseph, which makes 0 sense in light of the virgin birth story.  In reality, the virginity of the birth is nothing more than a mistranslation, but there are many contradictions that make considering the book the words of an ultimate being sort of silly, which means it was written by normal, mistake- and exaggeration- and egotism-prone men, which means it's just a story.

I have a bunch of problems with people putting their faith in fairy tales, especially when they include a supposed instruction manual for how to live.  One big one is that a lot of them spend a bunch of time and money praying and churching that would be much better spent thinking and doing.

Think about this:  approximately 90% of the population of the US claims a religious belief.  Let's be really conservative and say that only half of them tithe to their various superstition taxmen.  Let's be conservative again and say the average tithe is only about 5%.  The Catholics want at least 10%, the Mormons get 15%, and I've heard as high as 25% from some of the crazier fire and brimstone denominations in the bible belt.  Wiki puts the average income at about 50k

So, we'll call it 300 million people, times 90%=270mil, times 50%=135,000,000, times 5% of 50,000 (2500)=$337,500,000,000.  

$337,500,000,000 Every year!

Can you imagine how much good a secular organization could do around the world with half of that, with no popes or parsons or vaticans or temples or bible schools to pay for?

Also consider Penn's child killer/atheist (or heretic, at least) gambit.  If god tells a religious person to kill their baby, they either choose not to, which means they don't really believe all that 'god is perfect and all-loving' stuff, or they choose to obey, which means they're insane and dangerous and need to get the hell away from me.

If God doesn't exist, how can he tell a religious person to kill their baby?

Sorry, poorly constructed, the gambit is, you give the person the hypothetical god tells you to kill your baby.  Their answer determines whether they are full of shit or dangerous.

Like most other peoples of the time, the ancient Hebrews were a barbaric, warlike people.  These were all intended as justifications after the fact for deeds already done.  None of them actually command the reader to follow the example, and all were told directly by God to do it.  Except Pongo's; that's absolutely repugnant and I can't even begin to justify it.  At least Christ was wise enough to alter that one (I think?); anyway I've never tried to argue that everything about religion was good.  ;D

But my point here is that surely such activity is more a symptom of contemporary politics and civilization than of religion.  You couldn't spit back then without hitting some nation trying to conquer another nation.

This is absolutely true, and goes perfectly with one of my arguments for why religion is BS.  Even then, times were changing, and genocide was already starting to leave a bad taste in people's mouths.  The Torah and the rest of the Tanakh were constructs well designed to serve those in power at the time.

The Lounge / Re: Only douchebags like Mustangs!
« on: July 28, 2009, 09:20:37 AM »
Sounds fun!

Tusk, i enjoy working on cars, i might fancy saving myself the cash and building it myself.

Why can you not put a caterham on the road over there? Are they not deemed safe enough or something?

I think it's the crash tests.  They're very expensive to do here.  I'm not 100% sure, though.  The Atom has a kit that you buy, though with the signals and such, and I think there are already a few on the road here in CA.  You have to wear a helmet if you want to drive it on the freeway in CA, though, IIRC.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: atheism billboard
« on: July 28, 2009, 12:07:09 AM »

Well, in general, religion provides comfort for many who need it, provides many with a sense of purpose, and helps people get over their fear of death.  In my opinion, those are good things, and they've literally affected billions of people.  Christianity helped catalyze the civil rights movement (remember Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr?) and is responsible for many hospitals (they won't give you an abortion but they won't turn you away for not taking Christ into your bosom) and charitable institutions, worldwide.  The medieval Muslims were very scholarly people, who gave us significant advances in science, mathematics, medicine, and astronomy; they were key in developing the scientific method and revolutionized optics, and gave the world hospitals and libraries.  For that matter, many of the significant scientific advances during the Enlightenment period were made by devout Christians.

What I see is that the comfort comes at the cost of a lifetime of guilt for the actions of a character in a 5000 year old fairy tale, and for not following rules designed to control.  While it did help spread the message during the civil rights movement, it was also the primary justification for the enslavement of the African people, and the colonization and subsequent redivision and rape of their continent.  Most of the hospitals are funded by the church, but those funds are swindled from the pockets of the congregation to begin with.  Wherever you look, you find any small positives that come from the religion itself outweighed by the negatives, often the very ones attached by dogma to the good deeds, like Mother Theresa withholding pain medication from terminally ill homosexuals in India to help them 'make the right choice' and denounce their evil ways.  The best minds of the time are going to advance science, whether consumed by belief or playing along, there just won't be as much advancement as there would be were they unrestricted by dogma - they don't need to be afraid to find an equal number of ribs on men and women, or that the sun does not, in fact, orbit the earth.

Also, I'm pretty sure I've got a bit more research into WWII and the Holocaust than you.

How arrogant of you to say.  I'm sure you make that assumption about everything you argue, with whomever you're arguing.

No, just when I've studied a subject that doesn't get studied a whole lot, and fairly exhaustively.  I'm a Jew adopted by catholics, and was encouraged to explore my genetic roots.  I've met and talked with holocaust survivors, watches all 9 hours or whatever it is of Shoah, did a huge paper on that, Took a two part course in college, The Great World Wars, put on by the History and Political Science departments...  If I might be wrong, and you want to compare Holocaust research schlong lengths, we should probably do it in PM, my list of references is a couple of pages long.

And you know damn well I've only played that card about this subject and comparative religions, as that was my major.  You lurk plenty.

Well however you want to spin it you can blame nationalism for the atrocities committed during the Holocaust more than religion.  Clearly you agree that it was racial motives that galvanized the Germans to support Hitler over anything else, which was what gave him the power he had to do what he did.  Psychosis isn't peculiar to the religious so the idea that he wouldn't have felt justified, in his own mind, for exterminating the Jews is doubtful, in my opinion, and at any rate only something about which we can speculate since we don't know how Hitler would have turned out if he hadn't been influenced in his thinking by religion.

I agree that the religious have been behind many atrocities throughout history, and that they justified their acts with religion, but being power-mad despots, I have a feeling they would have committed their atrocities whether they were religious or not, assuming they would have been able to gain power without religion.  It's been a tool used by those who were (and are) evil, to be sure.  But in the end, I'm pretty sure that's all it is, a tool.  I don't remember ever reading a chapter in the Bible that advocated the extermination of non-believers (if you know of one, please tell me, it would be interesting to see), at least by humans (God, evidently, can do whatever he wants).  I think it's ultimately not religion itself that is at the root of evil, but rather perversion of it, and at any rate the primary motive is generally political.

OK, let me come at this a different way:  Religion tells its believers that they have the answers, and that any answers they don't have, they need only to read the bible, or the koran, or talk to this wise man or that oracle, and you will know what you need to know.  It teaches you at a very young age that actual thought about what you are being force fed is not beneficial to your eternal soul at all - it has to, the story it asks us to swallow is a funny pill, indeed.  It teaches people to ignore ludicrous contradictions like the bible tracing Jesus' lineage to King David through Joseph.  If you can ignore that your infallible book, written by god himself, says that either Mary wasn't a virgin, or that Jesus isn't related to David (and therefore not the prophesied messiah), and still believe in Christ the savior and the virgin Mary, you're willing to suspend reason.

Also consider Penn's child killer/atheist (or heretic, at least) gambit.  If god tells a religious person to kill their baby, they either choose not to, which means they don't really believe all that 'god is perfect and all-loving' stuff, or they choose to obey, which means they're insane and dangerous and need to get the hell away from me.

As for the bible advocating genocide:

Deuteronomy 7:2 says, "And when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them; then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them."

God gave a whole boatload of tribal nations over to his chosen marauding, pillaging people.

Joshua 10:40 states, "So Joshua smote the whole land; he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel commanded."

I can't remember the one where he tells the Jews to sew salt into the enemy's land AFTER they kill all the men and children, and rape all the women to completely mix the next generation.  Deuteronomy and Numbers are full of lovely commands by god to, "March on Christian So-o-o-ol-dier..." and just how much violence they were to inflict on the goyim for having the audacity to be living in the promised land, or even nearby.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Hate Speech Against Religion
« on: July 27, 2009, 08:34:03 PM »
Riiiiiiight, but it's perfectly acceptable that I have to see those stupid fish everywhere, and the 'in case of rapture, this car will be unmanned' bumper stickers, and to be asked to bow my head to someone's fairy godfather before I can enjoy my food, and to be 'blessed' every time my body tries to expel an irritant through my nose, and have to sit through city council meetings to help keep my nephew from getting punished by his fourth grade (he's 9) teacher for changing the pledge of allegiance to 'under stars' instead of 'under god' when he is compelled to recite it daily, and hear the athlete explain how his team won because of god (apparently, the other team was less holy), and so on and so on and so on every god damned day of my god damned life?
Enjoy your t-shirt that will change the world.

Why would my t shirt need to change the world?  If I can get the point across to one douchebag christfag, I'll consider it $75 well spent.  Hell, 10 times that would be cheap!  And why should I act respectfully toward any group, no matter how big a majority they represent, that treats me consistently with such disdain?

I have just as much right to express my feelings on the subject as anyone else does, and as the t shirt, bumper sticker, mug, etc. says, "People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."

Also, four t shirts.  lrn2count.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: atheism billboard
« on: July 27, 2009, 08:17:02 PM »
Roundy, you can't sidestep the evil that religion has manifested on this planet by saying that the acts of an institution would inevitably have been committed by some secular force - that's just nonsense.  It's like saying America doesn't owe anything to the native population, because someone would have come along and destroyed them if we hadn't.  The point that I made quite clearly was that it doesn't matter if there would have been SOME 'dark periods' as you called them (how many dead does it take before it warrants the title 'atrocity'?  I guess more than 20 million.), there wouldn't have been THOSE 'dark periods'.  How can you possibly try to argue that religion has done enough good to offset the senseless, violent deaths of 200 million people, only about 5-7% of which were military combatants?

Of what good, precisely, are you speaking?  The lead-joined aqueducts the Holy Roman Empire brought to Europe, which scientists believe caused mild brain damage to millions for a thousand years?  Or was it the invention of the Rack, the trial by ordeal, and the Star Chamber?  Maybe it was that deity-sanctioned slavery?  Seriously, what good has religion brought to this world?

Also, I'm pretty sure I've got a bit more research into WWII and the Holocaust than you.  The preservation of the Aryan race was the primary justification used in propaganda to bring the population on board with the initial separation of the jews into the ghettos and eventually into the camps.  Anti-semitism was prevalent in Germany at the time and convenient to the NAZI party.  Goebbels and Hitler blamed all of Europe's problems of the time (which were actually caused by the US and UK) on the Jews, and convinced the German people to do the same.  They blamed the war itself on the Jews, as if they were the ones driving tanks into Poland. 

The point is this:  He chose as the symbol of his party the swastika, which he became fascinated with as part of the coat of arms of the monastery school he attended, and he wanted more than anything in the world to be a priest.  He believed wholeheartedly in the jewish myths, the occult, and god.  He fought the Jews, in his own words, "fighting for the work of the Lord."  His hatred may have been inspired by sociology and politics, but his belief that he could exterminate innocent civilians already subjected to the most cruel slavery and torture the world has ever seen came straight from his belief in his imaginary friend. 

Oh, and sorry to lump you in with the delusional, that was my mistake.

If we are going to blatantly throw around Hitler references here's one, Hitler began excluding jews from his political party (the race not the religion, though either way he was not religious.) and then he started saying that they were inferior and their very existence was ruining society, and the cause of all of its ills. Please don't act like hitler the next time you are going to compare religion to him.

What?  I didn't bring up Hitler, and I certainly didn't compare him to anyone as an argument.  Also, what the hell are you talking about?  Hitler started hating on Jews in Vienna in the early '20s, at the latest, long before he had anything to do with any political party.

The Lounge / Re: Only douchebags like Mustangs!
« on: July 27, 2009, 06:07:27 PM »
I know, so are Caterhams, although i'd maybe buy a kit, build it, not bother SVA-ing it, and just use and abuse it as a track toy. A C20XE or Duratec with around 200 horse power would do me nicely.

Atoms are awesome cars, no doubt, and there's also no doubt the Honda K20 engine and especially box, are fantastic, but i'm just not a big fan of vtec.

That's right, I forgot about that.  In the US, we use the Duratec 2.0l in the Atom.  There are configurations ranging from under 200 to over 300 HP.  I also forgot the Caterham had the street legal option over there.  We can get them here, but we can't put them on the roads.

My buddy and I are building a 914-6 clone for a street legal track toy right now - not quite Atom numbers, but we should be under 800kg and over 250 HP when we're done, we're using a supercharged 911 motor from a much later era.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: atheism billboard
« on: July 27, 2009, 06:04:14 PM »
Most importantly, people everywhere are closing their eyes to truth, and refusing to accept the actual answers to some pretty important questions.  If you get rid of all the silly higher power nonsense, it's pretty hard to convince people that killing innocent civilians is OK.  Indoctrinate them into a religion, and it's a piece of cake.

I see what you're saying here but I think it's kind of a nonsensical argument to use against religion in general.  You're equating the sweet grandma who has faith in God and goes to church every Sunday with radical terrorists and that's not fair.  Besides that, history has shown us that it simply isn't true.  There have been plenty of wars where innocent people have died that religion didn't even play a part in.  It can be a scapegoat, but sometimes that's all it is.  The Holocaust, one of the greatest exterminations of innocent civilians in history, was about national pride, not religion.  It doesn't take indoctrination into a religion to convince people to do crazy, twisted things, it simply takes a leader with an enormous amount of charisma.  You could eradicate religion from the face of the Earth and these people would still be running the world, and convincing people to do insane things.  They would find a way.

To say that religion is evil in and of itself because Islamic terrorists blow themselves up on a public bus is silly and absurd.

Actually, what I'm saying is beyond that.  The sweet grandma, through her very sweetness and almost certain voting, gives both emotional and electoral legitimacy to the entire religious farce.  She, and the 'mainstream' members of religion provide the front organization for the corrupt, evil nonsense perpetrated by the 'extremists'.  The point is, without religion, there can be no religious extremists, and the choice is a no-brainer to me.

LOL at the argument that not ALL conflicts and atrocities have had religion at their root - even if it were true, which it isn't, who cares?  Even if just one of the disgusting, horrific conflicts over whose imaginary friend is cooler could have been avoided, it would outweigh the sum of religion's positive contributions to society.  And the unavoidable truth is that without christianity and islam, there are no Crusades (20 million people killed in the first one alone, all in the name of god, on both sides).  Without christianity, there would have been no Inquisition (12 million plus killed, most for being intellectuals).

And if you think Holocaust wasn't religious, you don't know jack about WWII or Hitler.  Despite what christians try to claim based on a couple of quotes, Hitler wasn't just religious, he was a religious nut obsessed with both judeo-christian and occult texts and relics.  Let's not forget, he was eradicating catholics, too.  Was that about race?

Religion is a cancer, and those who recognize it are trying to help free the world of its influence.

This is how modern atheism has become a belief system.  Under its most radical (and I might add charismatic) proponents it's gone well past simple non-belief and into the strong and radical belief that religion itself is evil and must be stopped.  Religion is attacked simply for existing.  Not only is that disgustingly intolerant, it's also rather politically retarded, and socially short-sighted.  In the end this brand of militant atheism is only creating a rift in society between believers and non-believers in which each side feels smugly superior to the other.  It's not helping anything.

Religion is flawed.  But so is capitalism.  So is socialism.  So is democracy.  Any large social construct of this kind is going to have its benefits and its flaws.  Religion is no different.  So if you're going to argue that religion itself is inherently evil and completely worthless you're going to have to demonstrate that it doesn't benefit society in any way.  I know a lot of sensible people who happen to be religious and aren't militant in any way who would disagree with that perspective.

As human beings we have the inherent right to believe what we want to believe, and relate to the world how we want to relate to it.  The militant atheists would like nothing better than to take that away.  Civilization in general has been moving to the point where different social groups who would have been at war with each other in the past are learning to live with each other, and it's almost like the militant atheists would like to destroy that progress, in the name of rationality.  It doesn't seem very rational to me.

As for my opinion of the billboard itself, it was put there to stir waves and cause trouble.  That much seems fairly obvious to me.  As much as I think it's a positive message in and of itself it still represents everything I hate about modern atheism.

Again, if atheism is a belief system, clear is a color.

I don't believe religion has been and is a force of domination, prejudice, subjugation, and taxation for the past 5,000 years, I know this fact from studying history.  This isn't some leap of atheistic 'faith', it's just the only conclusion that can be drawn from an examination of the histories of the world's major religions if one's judgment is not clouded by beliefs.  I don't attack religion for existing, or even for what I think it might do; I attack it for what it has done, is doing, and proudly promises to keep doing until all of us heathens are saved.  Evangelistic religions have declared war on rational thought and independent examination of one's spiritual options all over the world because by their very nature, they are discriminatory, divisive, and oppressive.

It's not a matter of whether religion benefits society in ANY way.  Cancer kills child molesters, which clearly benefits society, are you going to advocate for the abolition of cancer research?  Religion has poisoned the minds of billions of people for thousands of years - it has retarded progress both socially and technologically.  It has divided families, destroyed nations, killed millions upon millions, and made a very few very rich and very powerful.  If you ever are able to take the 'god is real' goggles off long enough to get true clarity on the subject, you will feel guilty for having even once spoken out in its defense.

I would have no problem letting religious morons have their silly rituals and pay their silly tithes, except they won't stop trying to take over the world and ruin it for people who actually think about the reality of our existence.  Tell you what, as soon as there are no more islamic terrorists, fundamentalist presidents keeping us from moving forward on stem cell research, attempts to promote ID as some sort of scientific concept to children, and nuns telling AIDS patients they claim to want to help they shouldn't wear condoms - and  all the other disgusting, revolting, horrific crap done in the name of god or gods on the planet... when all that has been completely eradicated, I'll stop advocating for the forced sterilization of the devout.

That pretty much proves my "atheism is a belief system statement"

As for your "religious people are destroying the planet." That is incorrect. Politicians have worked to manipulate religious groups into taking stupid positions, just like politicians have manipulated everyone else into taking positions. If you really want to start a group based on saving the world, base it on something other than lack of religion.

LOLWUT?  Half of religious nutcases I'm afraid of ARE the politicians.  Are you talking about the Pope?  You don't really think he believes any of this bible bullshit, do you?  He's a politician, even more so than Dubyah and Palin.

The second you base it off of atheism you lose every intelligent christian and every intelligent religious person on Earth. It was thinking like yours that drove Einstein out of nazi germany and into america. Any group whose mission is to save the world, should not base itself on a divisive issue. Especially one that has literally nothing to do with their objective.

OK, so a couple of dozen smart people get left behind.  So what?  That's like worrying about there being a good lawyer in heaven!  I'll take 1 moderately intelligent atheist on my side fighting for reason and progress for 10 'intelligent christians' praying against me.  Make it a thousand pray-ers.  you have seen the statistics, right?  There is an easily plotted, inversely proportional relationship between IQ and depth of religious belief.  If we have 10% of the population, we've got at least 75% of the IQ points.  Sorry if that seems arrogant or whatever, it's just statistical probability.

These groups will literally accomplish nothing because they can not unite people, they can only divide them, that is why I call them a retarded idea. You might as well start a global peace group around the KKK. Let us say you'll "offend a few potential members"

Hmmm.  This makes no sense to me at all.  The only people we're looking to unite are ourselves, and we're doing that at a pretty amazing rate.  The money the 'Atheist Bus Campaign' hoped to raise in six months, it raised in 24 hours, and the largest of the atheist organizations I belong to has over 3 million members, and has sponsored summer camps for kids, marches on Washington, and my local affiliate is working to have the 'invocations' abolished at the council meetings of several cities near me.  It is estimated that more atheists voted in the critical swing states than the margin between McCain and Obama in those states, and how many atheists do you really think voted for Palin to be one heart attack away from 'the button'?

It seems to me that we're starting to accomplish things all over, and with a new atheism-inspired book on the bestseller list every 8-10 months, more freethinkers keep finding something to get passionate about every day.

Our founders knew that religion was an antiquated concept when they wrote the Constitution, that's why there's no mention of god or gods anywhere in it, and why the first is the first and not the fourth or seventh - they knew how important that shit was.  It's even more antiquated now, but we keep allowing children to be abused through indoctrination, doomed to a life full of lies, silly superstitious beliefs, and fear of a made-up hell.  I'm over it, and trying to do what I can to get people to take the blinders off, for the good of us all, and before it's too late, and one of these pissing matches gets out of hand.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Hate Speech Against Religion
« on: July 27, 2009, 04:39:54 PM »
sit through city council meetings to help keep my nephew from getting punished by his fourth grade (he's 9) teacher for changing the pledge of allegiance to 'under stars' instead of 'under god' when he is compelled to recite it daily

Isn't that taking things a little too far?  I mean, it's just two words in a purely symbolic recitation.  Technically, yes, what with separation of church and state, "God" shouldn't be in the pledge, but is it really worth it to endure all the hassle?  The Supreme Court has ruled before-wrongly, I agree, but they have still ruled-that the mention of God in the pledge is constitutional.  I don't see how a city council is going to agree with you.  Sorry, but I'm just trying to be realistic.

Also, if the school is making your nephew recite the pledge, then they're doing something wrong.  The Supreme Court has also ruled that children cannot be forced to say the pledge, or even place their hands on their hearts.  All they have to do is stand.  Ironically, we owe this freedom to the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Well, it was far from the main point, but he wanted to say it.  His dad is a Marine, and he's a patriotic kid.  He's just been raised to believe that god is a story in a book called the bible, and doesn't want to mention him in the pledge.  The point of our argument (which we won) was that while he was not obligated to recite the pledge, him doing so with that tiny change to the words was much less disruptive and conspicuous than sitting through it.  His teacher was (she was 'offered an early retirement' at the end of the school year) a 58 year old fundamentalist 'born again' at 54, and a real nightmare.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Hate Speech Against Religion
« on: July 27, 2009, 10:08:35 AM »
Riiiiiiight, but it's perfectly acceptable that I have to see those stupid fish everywhere, and the 'in case of rapture, this car will be unmanned' bumper stickers, and to be asked to bow my head to someone's fairy godfather before I can enjoy my food, and to be 'blessed' every time my body tries to expel an irritant through my nose, and have to sit through city council meetings to help keep my nephew from getting punished by his fourth grade (he's 9) teacher for changing the pledge of allegiance to 'under stars' instead of 'under god' when he is compelled to recite it daily, and hear the athlete explain how his team won because of god (apparently, the other team was less holy), and so on and so on and so on every god damned day of my god damned life?

Blow me.

I opted for:

I don't believe in your imaginary friend.
Teaching children to fear a made-up hell is child abuse.
(Pics of bible and koran) Weapons of Mass Destruction
Worship me or burn for eternity! - Your loving God

Hear hear! It's not quite that bad in the UK but it's still bad.

Honestly, I envy the brits that.  I'd probably not be nearly as militant if I wasn't absolutely inundated on a daily basis with christian tripe.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Hate Speech Against Religion
« on: July 27, 2009, 09:31:52 AM »
LOL.  I'm getting at least two of these t-shirts, but this place has too many good ones.  Help me decide!

Hey, I found another place!  Holy shit, they have 60 designs and I want like half of them!

Some highlights:

Jesus Loves Me
But I make him wear a condom

There's a Sucker BORN-AGAIN every minute

Silly Christian
Myths are for Kids!

Have you forgotten about Jesus?
Isn't it about time you did?

there's no god damn god, god damn it.

We Won Jesus Died

Why not just get "ASSHOLE" tattooed on your forehead?

Riiiiiiight, but it's perfectly acceptable that I have to see those stupid fish everywhere, and the 'in case of rapture, this car will be unmanned' bumper stickers, and to be asked to bow my head to someone's fairy godfather before I can enjoy my food, and to be 'blessed' every time my body tries to expel an irritant through my nose, and have to sit through city council meetings to help keep my nephew from getting punished by his fourth grade (he's 9) teacher for changing the pledge of allegiance to 'under stars' instead of 'under god' when he is compelled to recite it daily, and hear the athlete explain how his team won because of god (apparently, the other team was less holy), and so on and so on and so on every god damned day of my god damned life?

Blow me.

I opted for:

I don't believe in your imaginary friend.
Teaching children to fear a made-up hell is child abuse.
(Pics of bible and koran) Weapons of Mass Destruction
Worship me or burn for eternity! - Your loving God

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: atheism billboard
« on: July 27, 2009, 09:07:01 AM »
Why does it matter to them at all? I have never in my life cared whether someone believed in something or not. It in no way effects me, and if they are intelligent to decide something like that for themselves, they are probably intelligent enough to be religious in a reasonable manner.

Atheism has turned into a belief system.

Do you not care in the slightest that islamic extremists want to kill you?  Would you walk willingly into their company with the cavalier attitude of "I don't care what you believe, it in no way affects I me"?  I hope you get the opportunity to demonstrate this view for us in the near future.  

A rudimentary understanding of sociology would show you the importance of groups and an individual's need for acceptance.  You ignorance on the issue appears to be vast.
I understand this completely. Hence me pointing out that need in my post.
I would be willing to listen to your arguments of why you think atheism is a belief system, because by strict definition it applies.  However, I think that you are using it to imply that atheists hold some sort of "faith" in their beliefs.  Which, if true, strikes me as a very odd argument.
Of course not, I just think it's fucking retarded to form a belief system around the single group that has no belief system. Belief systems cause a group to become unchangeable
I don't see why having a meeting of atheists is pointless. It's like a meeting for people that don't really like bananas. They have NOTHING in common except for the fact that they aren't religious. If the constant subject of their conversation is their lack of religion and how it affects their life it really is the most pathetic thing on Earth because they are letting religion control their lives and they aren't even religious. Do you not see the irony of a group that quits religion then forms a group to talk about how they no longer form groups to talk about religion? Like, I can't even think of a reason why anyone would find this distasteful unless they were working under feeble-minded prejudices.  What exactly scares you about a social gathering of people that agree on the same topic?  Is it because it's a tangible threat to your God-club?  If it's okay for people to have elitist, suppressive, brainwashing, lying, and socializing groups that believe in God, then I say it should be okay for people to have elitist, suppressive, brainwashing, lying, and socializing groups that do not believe in God.

You're letting your small brain be clouded by your preconceptions of atheism.  If you took a random sampling of atheists you would find many different degrees of them, from ones that know there are no gods to ones that think you can't prove it one way or the other.  The purpose of the billboard wasn't to gather a set of exactly like-minded people to sit around and believe a disbelief or try and disprove the existence of God (which is impossible), but to let people know that it's okay to not believe.

Quit wasting your God-given brain and use it before posting ignorant trite.

Now let me just put this out there, and listen to this.

If you quit a religion, become an atheist, why would you join a group to get together, to talk about how you are no longer religious and how its ok. It's the same bullshit most religious groups do, getting together to talk about how persecuted they are. So yes, I am small minded about groups that get together to have little BAWWW parties about how society doesn't accept them but they are right and they are the only one's that know it.

I'm not small minded about atheists or agnostic people, but I do question people that say there "is not a god" and claim they are on the scientifically backed side of the issue.

OK, you're missing the whole point, Raist.  Atheists and freethinkers are having meetings and putting ads on buses in London and billboards all over because religion and religious people and organizations are screwing up our planet.  ID morons are trying to get their BS taught to our children in American schools.  The pope is telling starving people in third world countries they'll burn in hell if they wear condoms to stop spreading AIDS and making more children they can't feed.  Islamic fundamentalists are blowing people up all over the world, beheading apostates, and 'circumcising' women.

Most importantly, people everywhere are closing their eyes to truth, and refusing to accept the actual answers to some pretty important questions.  If you get rid of all the silly higher power nonsense, it's pretty hard to convince people that killing innocent civilians is OK.  Indoctrinate them into a religion, and it's a piece of cake.

Religion is a cancer, and those who recognize it are trying to help free the world of its influence.

If atheism is a belief system, clear is a color.

The Lounge / Re: Only douchebags like Mustangs!
« on: July 27, 2009, 08:37:33 AM »
Not really a fan of any American cars. I like corners.

My JDM Impreza was nice, but an oversized mortgage has led to me driving a 3.0 Audi A4 quattro these days, plus my little french track car. Saving my pennies for a caterham though. Proper sports car.

The caterhams are insane.  I'd love to have one, but these days, I'd probably go with the Ariel Atom if I was going to get a machine like that.  It's road legal, you know.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Abortion
« on: July 25, 2009, 11:51:27 AM »
What if you're Catholic and aren't allowed to use birth control?

Then you should be sterilized to protect the gene pool from further contamination.

Then don't have sex unless your willing to have a baby  ::)

So take away one of the most important functions of sex, which is to express your love and demean it to just the base act of making babies? I don't think God would approve of people treating his gift like that.

@Wilmore: probably, thats why they have some big families. Which isn't a good thing really.

No, that isn't what I said at all. If you aren't going to use birth control, you shouldn't be surprised if you get pregnant as a result.

What you said, in essence, was that Catholics aren't allowed to have sex for the purposes of making love. What have you got against Catholics? HATER

He didn't dictate that, the pope did.  That is RC doctrine.

The Lounge / Re: Only douchebags like Mustangs!
« on: July 25, 2009, 11:16:35 AM »
The new Mustang design is pretty sweet, if you ask me. However, I'm more in love with the Dodge Challenger R/T. <3

I agree, they look pretty nice.  Ford quality is crap, though, especially on the Mustang.  I used to work at Saleen, I built all of the S281E cars.  The shit they made me do on those cars... I wouldn't wish one on an enemy.

Also, the new Challenger is bad ass, but the R/T is fairly weak.  It's all about the SRT8 with the 6.1l, 425 HP motor, 6-speed manual trans, and traction control that can be turned completely off.  Don't buy into the marketing hype, by the way, most modern automotive engines employ hemispherical combustion chambers - 'Hemi' is absolutely meaningless in terms of competitive performance.

I will say, though, that IMO you guys have missed the best of the new/retro machines, the 2010 Camaro SS.  I may be biased as an owner of a '69 Camaro, but to me, 426 Horses, IRS, Manual transmission (if I can't shift it, I don't drive it.  Period.), it's just an amazing car.  Depending on timing, I may order one next year - it just depends on money.  I really want the new CTS-V (550 HP, fastest sedan in the world at the Nurburgring), but it's hard to come by and almost $70,000.

Oh, and LOL at the 3000GT.  Crap motor, horrible floorpan (the suspension geometry is terrible and can't be corrected), weak four-wheel drive system, substandard brakes, completely out of balance... Really, except for the price, the car had no redeeming qualities.  If I had a nickel for every 3000GT I spanked with my 1.8l, 8v GTi, I'd have that CTS-V on order already.  I have the Mitsu badge off of one that my buddy built ($12k in, motor swap, etc).  I bet him his badge against my Roundel that he couldn't keep up with me 60-120mph or in the twisties.  It wasn't even close, and I didn't use my nitrous.

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