Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - Ferrell Katz

Pages: [1] 2
1
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 20, 2021, 07:36:41 PM »

• The Muslim fights only the one who fights him.


Not even close to the truth. The Islamic Empire was created through invasion and conquest.

Why was a Muslim army in France in 734 if they only fight in self defense?

2
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 20, 2021, 11:56:10 AM »
Among the reasons for the rapid and peaceful spread of Islam ......

Excuse me? Rapid - yes. Peaceful - not even close.

But, you know that, which makes everything you say a lie (that nobody here believes).

3
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 19, 2021, 03:48:57 PM »
We would now like our readers to ask themselves what they think are the reasons for all the propaganda and misinformation currently being perpetuated about Islam.

That's easy. Telling the lie that Islam is a religion of peace will lull us into a false sense of security. (I assume you're talking about the propaganda and misinformation perpetrated by such as yourself).

4
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Context and the Qur'an
« on: May 19, 2021, 03:30:22 PM »
"You took that out of context!" is a frequent complaint made when a verse is quoted from the Qur'an. Okay, but so what? Every word in the Qur'an was revealed by Mohamed between 610 and 632 CE, and is associated with whatever was happening at the time. Therefore, every verse has situational context, but is knowing that context necessary in understanding the message a verse was meant to convey?

It's worth noting that historical context was not a factor to the compilers of the Qur'an, because they put it together without any consideration for chronology. For example, surah 2 is actually the 87th revealed and 12 years into Islam's evolution. If it didn't matter to the compilers, why should it matter to the reader?

The bottom line is that the Qur'an says what it says. Many verses, although stated for a specific reason, are worded in such a way as to make a statement of fact or to issue a general, on-going command. Verse 39:27 explains it nicely, "And indeed We have put forth for men, in this Quran every kind of similitude in order that they may remember".

For example, verse 9:111 was revealed in late 630 after Mohamed had taken an army north to Tabuk in a failed attempt to battle, and thereby start a war with, the Byzantines. As usual, the Arab Bedouin tribes (Hypocrites) had refused to join Mohamed's army, and the Qur'an was taking them to task for the umpteenth time for their reluctance to see blood spilled (especially their own). Verse 9:111 was part of that dressing down. It says, "Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain". I fail to see how God telling Muslims they have to fight to get into Heaven needs to be set up by a history lesson.

5
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 11, 2021, 08:05:33 AM »

Among many unfounded accusations, is the allegation that Prophet Muhammad slaughtered 700 Jews once he settled in Madinah. Nothing could be farther from the truth

100% lying propaganda bull shit.

Even the qur'an mentions it in verse 33:26 - "And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you [Mohamed] killed and you took captive another part".

This is a direct reference to the slaughter of the banu quraiza.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

6
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Another mass shooting...
« on: May 10, 2021, 07:29:32 AM »
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though

We missed our annual trip to the Northern Beaches this year due to COVID.

Our 'Great Leader' Scott Morrison has not only forbid Australians from leaving the country and in some cases, forbid them to return, but barred any visitor (except maybe some new Zealanders) from coming here 'indefinitely' (his words)

Might as well be in North Korea  >:(

People will still vote for this Muppet so things won't change for the better

We have a granddaughter we've never seen, and she'll be a year in June. We're just hoping we'll be allowed in by year end.

7
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Another mass shooting...
« on: May 09, 2021, 09:08:33 PM »
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

Yep. In the land of Oz. :) No wizards though

We missed our annual trip to the Northern Beaches this year due to COVID.

8
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Another mass shooting...
« on: May 09, 2021, 04:13:37 PM »
So glad Australia doesn't have some shitty bill of rights.

Are you in Oz?

9
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 01:25:35 PM »

>>> Ad hominem bullshit deleted <<<

Quote
What happened when the Prophet conquered Mecca

Conquered????? Didn't you just say that sort of thing didn't happen????


Quote
The conquest of Makkah is the day of the greatest conquest.

There it is again. Pick a lane, Ahmad, pick a lane.

 
Quote
It is the day when Muslims entered Makkah from all four corners on the 20th of Ramadan, in the eighth year after the Prophets migration (Hijrah). They entered Makkah hailing victory, their tongues praising and thanking their Lord, Who granted them the victory and success.

I could do this all day, but I think I'll watch a golf tournament on TV instead.

10
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 01:14:42 PM »

If Islam was spread by the sword, it was the sword of intellect and convincing arguments.  It is this sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people.  The Quran says in this connection:
“Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best.”  (Quran 16:125)
The facts speak for themselves

I'll see your verse 16:125, and raise you:

- 2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah".
- 2:191 "And slay them ... slay them".
- 2:192 "Fight with them".
- 2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you".
- 2:218 "those who ... fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah".
- 2:224 "So fight in God's way".
- 2:264 "give us victory over the disbelieving people".
- 8:12 "Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them".
- 8:17 "And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them".
- 8:39 "fight them".
- 8:41 "whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger".
- 8:65 "O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight".
- 3:143 "And certainly you desired death [martyrdom in battle]".
- 3:145 "in their fight for the cause of God".
- 3:146 "grant us victory over the unbelievers".
- 3:152 "when you slew them by His permission".
- 3:157 "And if you are slain in the way of Allah or you die, certainly forgiveness comes from Allah".
- 3:158 "Whether you die or are killed, unto Allah you will be gathered".
- 3:167 "Come now, fight in the way of God".
- 3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead".
- 33:16 "Flight will not avail you if ye flee from death or killing".
- 33:18 "Allah knows those among you who come not to the fight".
- 33:20 "They [Hypocrites] would not fight except for a little".
- 33:26 "some you [Mohamed] killed"
- 33:61 "wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering".
- 4:71 "Believers, march [to battle] in small groups or all together".
- 4:74 "Those who want to buy the life hereafter with this life should fight for the cause of God".
- 4:75 "And what is wrong with you [Hypocrites] that you fight not in the Cause of Allah".
- 4:76 "Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of Satan".
- 4:77 "when the fighting was ordained for them ... they say: 'Our Lord! Why have you ordained for us fighting?'".
- 4:84 "Then fight in Allah's cause ... and rouse the believers".
- 4:89 "seize them and slay them wherever ye find them".
- 4:91 "seize them and slay them".
- 4:94 "go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah".
- 4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) ... to those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah".
          " Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight".
          "Those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home)".
- 4:110 "Forsake your home in the cause of Allah".
- 4:104 "Relent not in pursuit of the enemy".
- 47:4 "So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them ...".
           "God could have taken vengeance upon them, but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you ...".
           "Those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds".
- 47:20 through 47:23 "when a precise surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, you see those in whose hearts is hypocrisy looking at you with a look of one overcome by death... when the matter (preparation for Jihad) is resolved, then if they had been true to Allah [by fighting], it would have been better for them".
-  47:31 "We will surely test you until We make evident those who strive [wage jihad]".
- 47:35 "So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior".
- 22:58 "Those who emigrated for the cause of Allah and then were killed or died - Allah will surely provide for them a good provision".
- 49:15 "The believers ... strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah".
- 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them".
- 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure".
- 61:10 through 61:13 "Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives. He will admit you to Gardens. and other things you love, help from God and a nigh victory".
- 48:16 "You shall be called against a people possessed of great might to fight them".
- 48:19 "And much booty they will capture".
- 48:20 "Allah has promised that you will receive much booty".
- 48:29 "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers".
- 5:32 "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified".
- 5:35 - "O ye who believe! ... strive in His way".
- 5:54 "mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way".
- 9;5, "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
- 9:13 "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first".
- 9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands".
- 9:16 "Do you think that you will be left (as you are) while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive (for His cause)".
- 9:19 "strives in the cause of Allah".
- 9:20 "The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:29 "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]".
- 9:30 "The Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah ... May Allah destroy them".
- 9:36 "Fight against the disbelievers".
- 9:38 "What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?".
- 9:39 "If you do not go forth, He will punish you".
- 9:41 "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah".
- 9:44 "Those who believe in God and the Day of Judgment do not ask you whether they should fight for the cause of God".
- 9:45 "It is only those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts are in doubt that ask your leave (to be exempted from Jihad)" [clarification added by Mohsin Khan translation].
- 9:52 "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)?".
- 9:73 "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them".
- 9:81 "they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the Cause of Allah''.
- 9:86 "Believe in Allah and strive hard along with His Messenger".
- 9:88 "But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:93 "The blameworthy ones are those who ask for exemption [from fighting] despite their ability".
- 9:111 "Surely Allah has bought from the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain".
- 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you"

11
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 01:11:10 PM »


The story about “spreading the faith by the sword” is an evil legend, one of the myths that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims -

No lie to too outrageous or so easily disproved for you to tell.

Quote
It is a common misconception with some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force.
The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths.  Freedom of religion is ordained in the Quran itself:
“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion.  The right course has become clear from the wrong.”  (Quran 2:256)

Of course you don't give the rest of that verse. It says that the truth of islam is so obvious that compulsion shouldn't be necessary. If you want to be honest, tell us how surah 9 is not based entirely on compelling Muslims to fight.


Quote
The noted historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote:[1]  “History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”

They did not force Islam on people, they enforced ISLAMIC RULE on them.

Quote
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book Heroes and Hero worship, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one; in one man’s head alone.  There it dwells as yet.  One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men.  That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that will do little for him.  You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”

Absurd word-salad.

12
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 12:58:15 PM »


Every honest Jew who knows the history of his people cannot but feel a deep sense of gratitude to Islam

I see you don't care how many lies I catch you in. Perhaps you're a bot.

When Mohamed defeated the Meccans in the Battle of the Trench, he decided he didn't need the Jews of Yathrib any more, so he wiped them out. He had at least 600 men and youths beheaded, their women and children enslaved, and took all their property.

With that, he had completed his ethnic-cleansing of all the Jews who 5 years before had given him refuge.

The "protection" of which he speaks is a status called dhimmitude. Under it, people are allowed to practice their own religion, but must accept second class status and pay a protection tax called the Jizyah.

And to think those ungrateful Jews don't appreciate all that largess.

13
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 12:40:10 PM »

In Makkah, his people inflicted him with every kind of suffering, eventually forcing him to emigrate to Madeenah, and then waged war on him for five years.

Another lie. Mohamed left Mecca because he finally figured out that the Meccans would never follow him and abandon their pagan gods. It took 12 years for that realization to penetrate his skull. As to the war, it was Mohamed who started it by raiding Meccan caravans.

The only way Muslims can make Islam sound compatible with the modern world is to lie about what it teaches and it's history.

Quote
However, when he conquered Makkah without bloodshed in the twenty-first year of his Prophethood, he asked the Makkan unbelievers who were awaiting his decision about them: “How do you expect me to treat you?” They responded unanimously: "You are a noble one, the son of a noble one." He announced to them his decision:
“You may go free! No reproach this day shall be on you; may God forgive you.”

He conquered Mecca "without bloodshed" in exactly the same way the Nazis conquered Paris. The Meccans saw the war was lost, so they surrendered.

14
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 12:29:30 PM »

The verses of jihad in Islam have a context and Muslims do not attack people
• The Muslim fights only the one who fights him.


That's perhaps the biggest lie we are told about Islam.

The first Muslims created a vast empire via the sword. Please tell us what self defense necessity took Muslim armies to such far-flung locales as France and India.

Don't fall for this Islamopropaganda, folks. Don't fall for it.

15
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 09, 2021, 12:20:34 PM »


Much of the false news about Muslims in the media is believed by ignorant people

ISIS is the same as created and controlled by the Zionists. ISIS fighters are provided with a plentiful free "all weapons" to create evil monsters beyond imagination. They return to ISISRAHELL for medical treatment.
They kill Muslims and non-Muslims
Many extremists are armed from the West

    Therefore
    Islam has nothing to do with these false accusations

As Islam evolved over 20+ years it became a full-on warrior religion. One of the last verses sums that up in no uncertain terms - 9:111, "Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain".


16
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 08, 2021, 01:26:32 PM »

I was on a train between Aswan and Luxor during Ramadan. It had the annoying seat configuration where half the rows are pointed one way, and the other half the other way. That left me sitting directly across from a Muslim who was reading his qur'an. He wanted to kill me. He alternated between getting all worked up reading the qur'an, and then staring at me with clenched, grinding teeth as his chest heaved with ragged breaths of pure rage. We spent the entire train ride like that.

After reading the qur'an myself, I understand why he would want to butcher an infidel pig-dog like me. As verse 8:55 says, "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve". Poor man, having to share a rail car with a creature lower than a slug.

How did he know you weren't a Muslim?

He correctly assumed. It's not hard to tell that a white, non-fasting, obvious Westerner who doesn't utter a single "alhumdulillah" is an infidel.

Btw, that was your take-away?

You probably dont have that poofy looking unkempt beard either. That shit looks nasty

I also don't have a 'holier-than-thou' prayer bruise. Whenever you see a Muslim who has given himself a permanent bruise on his forehead, you know you're looking at a fundamentalist who wants the world to know he presses his head hard into the floor five times a day. Can I get an alhumdulillah?

17
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 08, 2021, 01:22:51 PM »

Allah does not forbid you as regards those who did not fight you on account of faith, and did not expel you from your homes, that you do good to them, and deal justly with them. Surely Allah loves those who maintain justice.  [Al-Mumtahana, 8]


The qur'an has 6,236 verses, and there are about 4 or 5 at the most that sound peaceful. They are greatly outnumbered by such as these:

- 2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah".
- 2:191 "And slay them ... slay them".
- 2:192 "Fight with them".
- 2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you".
- 2:218 "those who ... fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah".
- 2:224 "So fight in God's way".
- 2:264 "give us victory over the disbelieving people".
- 8:12 "Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them".
- 8:17 "And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them".
- 8:39 "fight them".
- 8:41 "whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger".
- 8:65 "O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight".
- 3:143 "And certainly you desired death [martyrdom in battle]".
- 3:145 "in their fight for the cause of God".
- 3:146 "grant us victory over the unbelievers".
- 3:152 "when you slew them by His permission".
- 3:157 "And if you are slain in the way of Allah or you die, certainly forgiveness comes from Allah".
- 3:158 "Whether you die or are killed, unto Allah you will be gathered".
- 3:167 "Come now, fight in the way of God".
- 3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead".
- 33:16 "Flight will not avail you if ye flee from death or killing".
- 33:18 "Allah knows those among you who come not to the fight".
- 33:20 "They [Hypocrites] would not fight except for a little".
- 33:26 "some you [Mohamed] killed"
- 33:61 "wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering".
- 4:71 "Believers, march [to battle] in small groups or all together".
- 4:74 "Those who want to buy the life hereafter with this life should fight for the cause of God".
- 4:75 "And what is wrong with you [Hypocrites] that you fight not in the Cause of Allah".
- 4:76 "Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of Satan".
- 4:77 "when the fighting was ordained for them ... they say: 'Our Lord! Why have you ordained for us fighting?'".
- 4:84 "Then fight in Allah's cause ... and rouse the believers".
- 4:89 "seize them and slay them wherever ye find them".
- 4:91 "seize them and slay them".
- 4:94 "go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah".
- 4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) ... to those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah".
          " Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight".
          "Those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home)".
- 4:110 "Forsake your home in the cause of Allah".
- 4:104 "Relent not in pursuit of the enemy".
- 47:4 "So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them ...".
           "God could have taken vengeance upon them, but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you ...".
           "Those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds".
- 47:20 through 47:23 "when a precise surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, you see those in whose hearts is hypocrisy looking at you with a look of one overcome by death... when the matter (preparation for Jihad) is resolved, then if they had been true to Allah [by fighting], it would have been better for them".
-  47:31 "We will surely test you until We make evident those who strive [wage jihad]".
- 47:35 "So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior".
- 22:58 "Those who emigrated for the cause of Allah and then were killed or died - Allah will surely provide for them a good provision".
- 49:15 "The believers ... strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah".
- 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them".
- 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure".
- 61:10 through 61:13 "Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives. He will admit you to Gardens. and other things you love, help from God and a nigh victory".
- 48:16 "You shall be called against a people possessed of great might to fight them".
- 48:19 "And much booty they will capture".
- 48:20 "Allah has promised that you will receive much booty".
- 48:29 "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers".
- 5:32 "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified".
- 5:35 - "O ye who believe! ... strive in His way".
- 5:54 "mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way".
- 9;5, "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
- 9:13 "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first".
- 9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands".
- 9:16 "Do you think that you will be left (as you are) while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive (for His cause)".
- 9:19 "strives in the cause of Allah".
- 9:20 "The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:29 "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]".
- 9:30 "The Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah ... May Allah destroy them".
- 9:36 "Fight against the disbelievers".
- 9:38 "What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?".
- 9:39 "If you do not go forth, He will punish you".
- 9:41 "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah".
- 9:44 "Those who believe in God and the Day of Judgment do not ask you whether they should fight for the cause of God".
- 9:45 "It is only those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts are in doubt that ask your leave (to be exempted from Jihad)" [clarification added by Mohsin Khan translation].
- 9:52 "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)?".
- 9:73 "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them".
- 9:81 "they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the Cause of Allah''.
- 9:86 "Believe in Allah and strive hard along with His Messenger".
- 9:88 "But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:93 "The blameworthy ones are those who ask for exemption [from fighting] despite their ability".
- 9:111 "Surely Allah has bought from the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain".
- 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you"

18
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 08, 2021, 01:16:24 PM »

I was on a train between Aswan and Luxor during Ramadan. It had the annoying seat configuration where half the rows are pointed one way, and the other half the other way. That left me sitting directly across from a Muslim who was reading his qur'an. He wanted to kill me. He alternated between getting all worked up reading the qur'an, and then staring at me with clenched, grinding teeth as his chest heaved with ragged breaths of pure rage. We spent the entire train ride like that.

Have you ever thought that you might be the issue here?   This has never happened to me and I can't imagine this guy live his life like this.

 ::)

19
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 08, 2021, 01:13:16 PM »

I was on a train between Aswan and Luxor during Ramadan. It had the annoying seat configuration where half the rows are pointed one way, and the other half the other way. That left me sitting directly across from a Muslim who was reading his qur'an. He wanted to kill me. He alternated between getting all worked up reading the qur'an, and then staring at me with clenched, grinding teeth as his chest heaved with ragged breaths of pure rage. We spent the entire train ride like that.

After reading the qur'an myself, I understand why he would want to butcher an infidel pig-dog like me. As verse 8:55 says, "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve". Poor man, having to share a rail car with a creature lower than a slug.

How did he know you weren't a Muslim?

He correctly assumed. It's not hard to tell that a white, non-fasting, obvious Westerner who doesn't utter a single "alhumdulillah" is an infidel.

Btw, that was your take-away?

20
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 08, 2021, 08:35:14 AM »

I was on a train between Aswan and Luxor during Ramadan. It had the annoying seat configuration where half the rows are pointed one way, and the other half the other way. That left me sitting directly across from a Muslim who was reading his qur'an. He wanted to kill me. He alternated between getting all worked up reading the qur'an, and then staring at me with clenched, grinding teeth as his chest heaved with ragged breaths of pure rage. We spent the entire train ride like that.

After reading the qur'an myself, I understand why he would want to butcher an infidel pig-dog like me. As verse 8:55 says, "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve". Poor man, having to share a rail car with a creature lower than a slug.

21
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: If you invented Time Travel
« on: May 02, 2021, 04:21:43 PM »

I already invented time travel. I went back in time and killed the Saskatoon Strangler before he killed those 29 people, but nobody appreciates it.

22
Philosophy, Religion & Society / When did Islam introduce fighting?
« on: May 02, 2021, 03:11:06 PM »
NOTE: This is not a cut and paste from a web site. I spent 18 months rereading the Qur'an in chronological order and summarizing it. This is from that summary.


In the first 12 years of Islam's creation Mohamed lived in the pagan city of his birth, Mecca. He spent those years trying to convince the Meccans that he had been chosen as God's final prophet, and that they should abandon their pagan ways and follow him in worship of the one and only true god. They ignored him. Two thirds of the Qur'an came from that period and all without so much as one word about fighting.

After he and his very small following moved to Medina, things changed overnight. If the expression, "Wait. What?" were in vogue at the time, it probably would have run through the minds of converts after the revelation of verses 2:154 and 2:155:

- 154 "Do not consider those who are slain for the cause of God to be dead. They are alive but you are unaware of them".
- 155 "Be sure We shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere".

During the revelation of surah 2, Mohamed embarked on a campaign that changed not only the nature of Islam, but the course of history. He started a war with the pagans of Mecca by raiding their trade caravans. For the first time, Muslims were instructed to take lives by fighting "fee sabil Allah (in the cause of God)". The pagans responded by sending forces to protect their caravans, but, despite having superior numbers, were defeated by the Muslims in the Battle of Badr (CE 624). This sparked a seven year war that ended in complete victory for the Muslims and control of Mecca and the Kaaba. These raids were the first action in a pattern of aggression that would escalate and eventually turn into the campaigns of conquest that resulted in the creation of a vast Islamic caliphate within only 100 years of Mohamed's death.

Muslims dispute this. They claim the raids were justified based on persecution they suffered at the hands of the pagans before the Hijrah. What they do not, and can not, claim is that physical abuse of Muslims occurred during that period. There are no verses in the Qur'an that speak of harm inflicted; only of mockery and refusal to obey Mohamed and abandon their long-held beliefs and gods. They also do not dispute that the 'first arrow' was fired by a Muslim named Sa`d ibn Abi Waqqas when his party was sent to raid a caravan (although the raid was eventually called off). Rather, they celebrate Sa'd as a folk hero.

For Mohamed to order military action "in the cause of God", he was faced with being able to claim that a clearly offensive strike would be justified and in compliance with God's wishes. The Qur'an would therefore have to supply him with two revelations that were not so much as hinted at in all 86 Meccan surahs; a direct command to fight, and moral justification for taking lives. To that end, the following two verses were conveniently revealed:

- 190 "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors".
- 191 "And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression (fitnah) are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith".

Verse 190 provided the order to fight, but only in self-defense, which by itself did not justify an attack against the pagans, as there is no indication in the Qur'an that any Muslims had been killed. Therefore, Mohamed could not accuse them of being "those who fight you". He immediately solved that problem in 191 by providing a work-around that moves the goal posts in such a vague and open-end manner as to designate virtually any unbeliever an enemy. It breaks down as follows:

- "And slay them wherever ye catch them" removed any doubt that blood-letting had been introduced to Islam.
- "and turn them out from where they have turned you out" is a clear reference to Mohamed's claim that he was forced to flee Mecca.
- "for tumult and oppression (fitnah) are worse than slaughter" introduced 'fitnah' as a catch-all crime against Islam that, in the space of one verse, effectively dropped self-defense to second place as a reason to make war.

The importance of the definition of 'fitnah', and of adding it to self-defense as the basis for which Muslims can justify attacking non-Muslims, cannot be stressed enough. 'Fitnah' is described in various English translations as any action that either impedes the practice of Islam ("suppresses faith") or simply violates any of God's commandments as stated in the Qur'an. For example, Christians are guilty of 'fitnah' every time they pray to Jesus rather than God. Six of the seven translations given in http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=2&verse=191 define 'fitnah' as tumult, oppression, or persecution, whereas the seventh, by Muhammad Sarwar, goes so far as to translate it as "the sin of disbelief in God".

The only 'crimes' the Meccans had committed against Islam were to "deny God's signs" (refuse to adopt Islam), and to 'desecrate' the Kaaba by using it for polytheist prayer. But, thanks to verse 191, it became enough to warrant an attack. However, that was just the beginning of the influence verse 191 had in shaping history. It not only provided the excuse Mohamed needed to attack the Meccans, and although it was crafted to solve a short term problem, it established the criteria that has inspired Islamic jihad for 1400 years and counting.

Verse 191 is noteworthy for a third reason. Although it targeted the pagans of Mecca, it demonstrates a method of instruction commonly used in the Qur'an. While the first part of the verse is specific to a given circumstance, the concluding statement is generic and suggestive of a wider application. In this case, "Such is the reward of those who suppress faith" implies that military action would be an appropriate response against any person, tribe, or nation deemed guilty of 'suppressing faith'.

The next two verses describe how far to take the fight, and what the outcome is expected to be:

- 192 "But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful".
- 193 "And fight with them until there is no persecution (fitnah), and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors".

Verses 190 and 192, if quoted together and without contextual consideration of surrounding and later verses, give the impression that fighting is to be strictly defensive, and that hostilities must cease as soon as the enemy quits the battle. However, 191 and 193 add conditions that paint a decidedly more aggressive picture, as they give 'fitnah' as sufficient reason to engage in hostilities, and state that annihilation of the enemy is required until "religion should be only for Allah".

23
Flat Earth General / Re: Why Should I Believe the Earth is Flat?
« on: May 02, 2021, 02:19:40 PM »
Hello there
To me, at long distances it looks normally flat - no cruvature drop. Do a survey and see how many times out of 10 it is closer to flat or curved.

Have you ever seen the curvature? You could also just try looking for that. But look closely and see what explanations fit best / if they are certain.

You can't see curvature by looking left and right (x and y). It takes depth perception (z) to see it. Think of a picture of a basketball vs. an actual basketball. They both have the same x,y profile that looks like a circle, but that alone does not tell you whether it's a flat circle or a sphere. You need the z axis for that, and in the case of a basketball, you are close enough to see all 3 dimensions as it curves away from you, and your brain kicks in to see that as a sphere.

So, for example, standing on a beach and looking out to sea tells you nothing.

24
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 02, 2021, 10:03:03 AM »

Does the Qur'an say that Muslims should kill unbelievers wherever they are?
There are a few verses from the Quran that are quite often misquoted or quoted out of context to perpetuate the myth that Islam promotes violence and exhorts its followers to kill those outside the fold of Islam. The words Kill the polytheists wherever you find them are often quoted to portray that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality.


In order to understand the context, it is necessary to read from the beginning of the chapter. It discloses that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the pagans of Mecca. The pagans violated this treaty, so a period of four months was given them to make amends; otherwise war would be declared against them. The complete verse actually says:

“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Quran 9:5)


This verse is a command to the Muslims who had entered into an agreement with the pagans, who soon violated the agreement, to fight and kill those who betrayed them wherever they found them. It would seem that any open-minded person would consider the historical context of this verse and agree that it cannot be used as “evidence” that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed, or that it exhorts its followers to kill anyone outside the fold of Islam.

You claim to give context, but you left out the part that explains it was not the Meccans themselves, but a client tribe, who were fighting a client tribe of the Muslims, and that said dispute was long-running. The Meccans approached Mohamed with an apology and an offer to make restitution, but Mohamed blew them off because it gave him the excuse he was looking for to attack Mecca.

Remember, it was Mohamed who started the war with Mecca in the first place. He wanted the Kaaba, and he wasn't about to let this opportunity go wanting.

25
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 02, 2021, 09:54:13 AM »

Islam teaches that human beings should take positive action in this life

Correct. Verse 9:29 says, "Fight [unbelievers] until they accept Islam or pay the protection tax". Verse 9:111 says, "Believers fight in the cause of God. So they kill and are killed".

Please enlighten us as to how you plan to live up to your obligations to Allah (we need to make sure you're on the appropriate watch list).

26
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 02, 2021, 09:24:21 AM »

Muslims strive to follow the great example of Prophet Muhammad

And that's why we have Islamic terrorism 1400 years later.

Mohamed had people beheaded and made war. Yes, his example is just so fucking wonderful.

27
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The month of Ramadan
« on: May 01, 2021, 10:40:52 AM »

As for the rest of the text, it is a precise description of the situation of the Messenger and his companion, the friend Abu Bakr, as they fled Mecca, while the swords of the Quraysh surrounded the house of the Prophet. , peace and blessings be upon him, in order to destroy him after Abu Talib died, and they set aside a thousand camels for the one who brought the Prophet Muhammad after his escape and Tayma, meaning Medina!


There is zero proof of that. Mohamed probably left Mecca because almost nobody listened to him.

28
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 01, 2021, 08:47:34 AM »
MaNaeSWolf

Islam is not just another religion. It is the same message preached by Moses, Jesus and Abraham.

Really? I must have missed hearing about Jesus commanding Christians to:

NOTE: All quotes below using 'jihad' (struggle/strive) and "go forth in the cause of God" rather than 'qatl' (fight/kill) are used in the context of fighting.

- 2:190 "Fight in the cause of Allah".
- 2:191 "And slay them ... slay them".
- 2:192 "Fight with them".
- 2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you".
- 2:218 "those who ... fought (and strove and struggled) in the path of Allah".
- 2:224 "So fight in God's way".
- 2:264 "give us victory over the disbelieving people".
- 8:12 "Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them".
- 8:17 "And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them".
- 8:39 "fight them".
- 8:41 "whatever ye take as spoils of war, lo! a fifth thereof is for Allah, and for the messenger".
- 8:65 "O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight".
- 3:143 "And certainly you desired death [martyrdom in battle]".
- 3:145 "in their fight for the cause of God".
- 3:146 "grant us victory over the unbelievers".
- 3:152 "when you slew them by His permission".
- 3:157 "And if you are slain in the way of Allah or you die, certainly forgiveness comes from Allah".
- 3:158 "Whether you die or are killed, unto Allah you will be gathered".
- 3:167 "Come now, fight in the way of God".
- 3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead".
- 33:16 "Flight will not avail you if ye flee from death or killing".
- 33:18 "Allah knows those among you who come not to the fight".
- 33:20 "They [Hypocrites] would not fight except for a little".
- 33:26 "some you [Mohamed] killed"
- 33:61 "wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering".
- 4:71 "Believers, march [to battle] in small groups or all together".
- 4:74 "Those who want to buy the life hereafter with this life should fight for the cause of God".
- 4:75 "And what is wrong with you [Hypocrites] that you fight not in the Cause of Allah".
- 4:76 "Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of Satan".
- 4:77 "when the fighting was ordained for them ... they say: 'Our Lord! Why have you ordained for us fighting?'".
- 4:84 "Then fight in Allah's cause ... and rouse the believers".
- 4:89 "seize them and slay them wherever ye find them".
- 4:91 "seize them and slay them".
- 4:94 "go forth [to fight] in the cause of Allah".
- 4:95 "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) ... to those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah".
          " Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight".
          "Those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home)".
- 4:110 "Forsake your home in the cause of Allah".
- 4:104 "Relent not in pursuit of the enemy".
- 47:4 "So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike their necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them ...".
           "God could have taken vengeance upon them, but (He ordered armed struggle) to test some of you ...".
           "Those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds".
- 47:20 through 47:23 "when a precise surah is revealed and fighting is mentioned therein, you see those in whose hearts is hypocrisy looking at you with a look of one overcome by death... when the matter (preparation for Jihad) is resolved, then if they had been true to Allah [by fighting], it would have been better for them".
-  47:31 "We will surely test you until We make evident those who strive [wage jihad]".
- 47:35 "So do not weaken and call for peace while you are superior".
- 22:58 "Those who emigrated for the cause of Allah and then were killed or died - Allah will surely provide for them a good provision".
- 49:15 "The believers ... strive with their properties and their lives in the cause of Allah".
- 66:9 "O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them".
- 61:4 "Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure".
- 61:10 through 61:13 "Shall I lead you to a bargain that will save you from a grievous Penalty? You shall believe in Allah and His Messenger, and struggle hard in Allah's way with your property and your lives. He will admit you to Gardens. and other things you love, help from God and a nigh victory".
- 48:16 "You shall be called against a people possessed of great might to fight them".
- 48:19 "And much booty they will capture".
- 48:20 "Allah has promised that you will receive much booty".
- 48:29 "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers".
- 5:32 "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified".
- 5:35 - "O ye who believe! ... strive in His way".
- 5:54 "mighty against the unbelievers, they shall strive hard in Allah's way".
- 9;5, "kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush".
- 9:13 "Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first".
- 9:14 "Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands".
- 9:16 "Do you think that you will be left (as you are) while Allah has not yet made evident those among you who strive (for His cause)".
- 9:19 "strives in the cause of Allah".
- 9:20 "The ones who have believed, emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:29 "Fight against those who have been given the Scripture [Jews and Christians]".
- 9:30 "The Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah ... May Allah destroy them".
- 9:36 "Fight against the disbelievers".
- 9:38 "What is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?".
- 9:39 "If you do not go forth, He will punish you".
- 9:41 "Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah".
- 9:44 "Those who believe in God and the Day of Judgment do not ask you whether they should fight for the cause of God".
- 9:45 "It is only those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and whose hearts are in doubt that ask your leave (to be exempted from Jihad)" [clarification added by Mohsin Khan translation].
- 9:52 "Can you expect for us (any fate) other than one of two glorious things- (Martyrdom or victory)?".
- 9:73 "O Prophet, fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh upon them".
- 9:81 "they hated to strive and fight with their properties and their lives in the Cause of Allah''.
- 9:86 "Believe in Allah and strive hard along with His Messenger".
- 9:88 "But the messenger and those who believe with him strive with their wealth and their lives".
- 9:93 "The blameworthy ones are those who ask for exemption [from fighting] despite their ability".
- 9:111 "Surely Allah has bought from the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain".
- 9:123 "Fight those of the disbelievers who are close to you"

29
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 01, 2021, 08:36:41 AM »

forgiveness have been mentioned together more than 70 times in the Quran.

Forgiveness is ONLY offered to those who accept Islam before they die.

4:48 - "Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that".

4:116 - (for those who missed the above) "Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that".

30
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: The essence of the facts
« on: May 01, 2021, 08:30:00 AM »
The Quran says that Allah is merciful and that He gives severe punishment. So is He forgiving or is He vengeful?
The Quran mentions many times that God is the Most Merciful.

And the winner is ............ VENGEFUL!!!

4:56 - "Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment".

18:29 - "We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given water like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place".

18:102 "We have prepared hell as a welcome for the disbelievers".

34:12 "We made him taste of the punishment of burning".

70:15-16 "Surely it is a flaming fire that will strip off the flesh".

47:15 "those who abide in the fire and who are made to drink boiling water so it rends their bowels asunder".

There are literally many hundreds of verses that promise to roast non-Muslims forever. Yeah, I'm going with "vengeful".

Pages: [1] 2