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Messages - I am not Tom Bishop but I can't prove it

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Give us your pointers if you really want. But don't expect many people to follow them - there are a lot of unintelligent people here.

lol  Okay, I think I'll just get lost.  Later!

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hahaha that's better...no more airy fairy shit.

truce? or enemies?

I don't know you.  I'm not going to go to sleep at night worrying about this.  You were just being rude.  There are plenty more out there like you.  At least you're just on the Internet.  If you were at work, it would be more of a problem.



Well that's good, I wouldn't want you losing sleep. Just being rude? I was being VERY rude. Truth is I'm a young person, very bored and procrastinating. Sorry if I came across rude...but regardless of whether or not you believe what you were saying, it was kind of inevitable someone would be rude to you. Just be thankful it was me, I'm a softy compared to some of these other RE hardnuts. Anyway I think this thread is over...I'm glad you aren't Tom - it would have detracted from his charm.

Yes, it's always bound to happen on the Internet.

Tom will carry on.  And I hope he'll be able to convince lots of people that the earth is flat. Who knows, maybe he can convince me for real someday.  ;)

Anyway, this was really just a test to see if I can argue something so absurd and I succeeded.  There is another forum I'm on where people know about what I'm doing here, and they were commenting on just how poorly people debate on here.  Maybe I should give a few tips before leaving.  Or should I just get lost? lol  I could give pointers to both REers and FEers. 

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Damn, you can hear a pin drop... so when am I going to get banned?

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hahaha that's better...no more airy fairy shit.

truce? or enemies?

I don't know you.  I'm not going to go to sleep at night worrying about this.  You were just being rude.  There are plenty more out there like you.  At least you're just on the Internet.  If you were at work, it would be more of a problem.

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My gut feeling is the joke is on us.  But that's what makes this all so much fun.  You don't know who's who and whether they are for real, etc.

Perhaps the joke is on you, TruthSeeker, and I actually really like you and your debating style. I was just offensive earlier becuase you are SO good at arguing the FE I want you off the forum.

Or maybe I think you are just trying to make yourself feel smart by pointing out the fact that none of us can know anything for real. We all know that all ready - some of just trust other people. I personally trust humanity.

Which do you believe? According to your theory you can never know if I'm for real or not, so perhaps you should also hold your tongue before insulting me.

Just a thought.

Blah, you think I actually believed in all that?  I was just playing devil's advocate.

SO FUCK YOU

PS.  By the way, I trust people too, but too many things don't fit together here... so I take everything with a grain of salt in this forum.

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Notice how quiet it got all of a sudden?

I wonder how long it's going to take before I get banned?

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I've seen them argue both ways.  The point is you can't be sure of anything on here.  And yet, you guys go on and on as if you know everything.  That's what so funny about the whole thing.  Whoever created this site is a genius.

And the funniest thing was that you all thought I was Tom.  And I bet some of you still do.

Oh boy, this has been great... Thanks everyone!

For fuck's sake who cares??? Were all hear for a bit of fun. No one here thinks it matters which way if these people believe what they want. If they do they are as stupid as you.

NOTE WELL:

I don't give a shit that we can't be sure. Doesn't mean squat. People post stuff I find silly or funny, and gives me a chance to test my own knowledge and try and answer. It's ALL A BIT OF FUN.

One question before I finish ranting:
How many friends do you have?

Lots.  And you are a fucking asshole.

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There are plenty of FE mods. TheEngineer and Dogplatter, who both post arguments that aren't complete crap.

I think a lot of people know they will never convince a FE'r the world is round. I'm sure what originally attracted all of us was when we first saw the site, noted people's crazy beliefs and felt the urge to swear at them and tell them they're idiots. But then I got hooked because it's fun seeing what people believe in. I don't care if people believe the earth is flat, but I find it fun to show them why it can't be. That's my opinion

So TruthSeeker - you're a toss. That's also my opinion
I've seen them argue both ways.  The point is you can't be sure of anything on here.  And yet, you guys go on and on as if you know everything.  That's what so funny about the whole thing.  Whoever created this site is a genius.

And the funniest thing was that you all thought I was Tom.  And I bet some of you still do.

Oh boy, this has been great... Thanks everyone!

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Why would a flat earther who believes in a government conspiracy, who believes you cannot directly attack the conspiracy head on, use his real full name and post his picture on the site?  I wouldn't.  Would you?

If you stand for what you believe than you have no reason not to.  Although I've never heard him say that was his real pic, only his real name.

Even if your life is in danger?  If I believed in the conspiracy, I would make myself as anonymous as possible on the Internet.  If I believed that flat earth theory is the truth and that the government doesn't want people to know about it, I would keep myself hidden as much as possible so I can avoid being on the radar.  I wouldn't publicly announce my name and my identity.

Again, these are just questions.  Don't you guys ever wonder?

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Indeed I do think Tom exists.  I have no reason to doubt he does, just like I have no reason to seriously doubt the world to be round.

Why would a flat earther who believes in a government conspiracy, who believes you cannot directly attack the conspiracy head on, use his real full name and post his picture on the site?  I wouldn't.  Would you?

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Hold it, time out...don't you guys all think you are taking this way too seriously?  My God, people chill out.... maybe it's time to admit the truth? :P



Taking what too seriously?

This flat earth vs round earth discussion.  It's not the end of the world you know, regardless of who "wins" this discussion.

What if I told you I came here to play devil's advocate and see how far I could take flat earth theory?  Or are you guys just SOOOOOOOOOO convinced that I am Tom at this point that the truth wouldn't even go through your head?


I never think anyone is Tom but Tom Bishop.  I don't see why he would need alias's.  There are dozens of trolls on these forums, the odds of it being Tom who researches like mad and (almost) always posts intelligently is low.

Do you even think a "Tom Bishop" exists?

Have you ever wondered why a site for flat earth people have moderators who don't believe in it?  Do you think a flat earther would allow a nonbeliever to police the site?

I don't know the answers to these, but I'm just asking.  Do you guys wonder?

My gut feeling is the joke is on us.  But that's what makes this all so much fun.  You don't know who's who and whether they are for real, etc.

In my opinion, it's really about testing what your beliefs are (real and made up) and seeing if they can stand the rigors of debate.  I am still floored by how steadfastly all of you believe in what you believe in.  It's definitely a sign of youth.  The older you get the more you realize you don't know.

Anyway, I was only planning on debating this for a week, so Tom will have to carry on without me.  It's been fun.

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Hold it, time out...don't you guys all think you are taking this way too seriously?  My God, people chill out.... maybe it's time to admit the truth? :P



Taking what too seriously?

This flat earth vs round earth discussion.  It's not the end of the world you know, regardless of who "wins" this discussion.

What if I told you I came here to play devil's advocate and see how far I could take flat earth theory?  Or are you guys just SOOOOOOOOOO convinced that I am Tom at this point that the truth wouldn't even go through your head?

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Hold it, time out...don't you guys all think you are taking this way too seriously?  My God, people chill out.... maybe it's time to admit the truth? :P


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But you totally led the discussion away from any real debate. My argument had nothing to do with everest's actual height, just with its status as the highest mountain around.

Come on, look at it from my perspective... I see conspiracies everywhere... If there was a point on earth where the sun never set, of course I'm going to gravitate towards the government getting rid of the evidence.  I just made this up on the fly, mostly for fun.  Yes, I do come here for entertainment you know (despite also believing the earth is flat).

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Well then, you are going to be very disappointed in life.  I bet you throw your slippers at the TV whenever you hear something you don't like. Wink

I just turn the channel actually. This is you coming back to accusing me of being angry and that i need it to be managed.

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No two people see eye to eye on everything.  Try arguing like this in any relationship, and let's see how far your "logic" will go.

No one ever asked an FE'r to agree with everything they say. I say the earth is round, many people on here agree. Are you telling me it's not logical for the proving of something to be true should convince another that it is true? With this "logic" nothing is true. With this "logic" proof isn't proof. You're stuck in a paradox.

I dare you to talk to a fundamentalist and try to convert them.  Try it.

It's not logical if you don't know where the other person is coming from.  No one just accepts what someone they never met claims to be the truth.  Never.

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I didn't post in The Unrefuted.  In the Photographic thread, I was the one who questioned the height of Everest.  Please learn to distinguish who posts what before telling someone to answer.

I know you didn't post. My point is that you and your fellow FEers have entirely failed to show why it is wrong...

And questioning the height of everest did nothing but lead us off topic for about 3 pages.

You and your fellow FEers... This is not a conspiracy... we don't huddle together and discuss our strategies...

Tom is a busy man.  He is researching flat earth theory.  And yes, I did lead the conversation away by me questioning Everest, but I just couldn't resist.  Sorry.

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Haha! Please read my posts full of logic and proofs to see how much respect you FEers give such trivial concepts...

We did, and the logic and proofs just don't make sense.  I'm sorry that all that work you did didn't result in us becoming round earth theorists like you would have hoped it would.  But we must pursue the truth at all costs, even if it means disappointing our flat earth friends.

Do you ever get tired of trying to act smarter then you are?

Sokarul... you're one of the round earth people that I could truly live without on this flat earth.

Don't you ever get tired of coming here?  Oh yeah, you come here for fun and you're bored.  But every time you open your mouth, you sound like you are irritated and frustrated.  I am not responsible for how you feel, kiddo.  Now why don't you go watch some TV or some porn so that we adults can talk.

Nope, I came here because someone posted this site on another forum.  I will be here until the site closes. 

You keep talking about the scientific method yet you are probably a business major working in a cubical with no windows in sight. 

Scientists observe something, make a theory, and then figure out a way to test the theory.  You make up theories from stuff you haven't even seen and then just assume they are right.  The only scientific method that is wrong is yours. 

And BTW I'm 22, not exactly a kid.

That's what they all say... Someone posted about this on another forum... but that still doesn't explain why you spend so much time here... I read stuff posted by people all the time, and I don't go following them over there.  Could it be because you to question what you have been taught?


No my theories are based on what I see with my own two eyes.

And 22 is a kid... when I was your age, I didn't who the hell I was (I also thought the earth was round--can you believe that?)

So you have seen Mt Everest?  Thats why you know they blew it up?  You saw it when it was higher then it is now?  I may have never been up high enough to see the curavture but I have seen countless picture. I have seen hours of video.  I have seen what photoshop can and cant do.  I have seen pictures from hobbyists with expensive telescopes.  I have seen a planet transit the sun.  I believe in technology over a book that was written when people still thought the moon was made of cheese.

I have never doubted the earth was round.  But then again, I didn't sleep through school.  I have thought about the evidence for both sides but I just cant accept a shadow object blocks out the moon during an eclipse.   


I'm always on because I have a badass computer that is always on and my school has no less then 7 computer labs. 

I didn't see Everest.  And I never claimed the top was bombed.  It was just speculation... I said IF Everest was tall enough to blow away round earth theory, the government must have blown away the top.  That's all.  I'm not claiming this is true, just throwing suggestions out there...

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That's what they all say... Someone posted about this on another forum... but that still doesn't explain why you spend so much time here... I read stuff posted by people all the time, and I don't go following them over there.  Could it be because you to question what you have been taught?

You're in no position to talk this way. If someone says it was posted on another forum, as for as you know, thats true. Just because someone posts a lot, or is logged in for a long time doesn't mean they are at the site or even at their computer for a long time. I come here everyday for a while, because i want to see what FE'rs will say next.

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No my theories are based on what I see with my own two eyes.

No they're not. You frequently ask Tom to come over and bail you out with his "book that he quotes from". Obviously, your own two eyes aren't enough.


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And 22 is a kid... when I was your age, I didn't who the hell I was (I also thought the earth was round--can you believe that?)

22 is a legal adult. It doesn't matter what you were when you were his age, he's not you and vice versa.

I am in a position to talk this way.  He attacked me first.  Don't expect me to kiss his ass if he attacks.

Oh, asking for quote is bailing me out.  Hahahahaha, I'm on trial here?  Okay, errrr

"Obviously, your own two eyes aren't enough."  <--- if this isn't an attack I don't know what is... oh but I deserved it right... its okay for some of you to talk trash but not me

It's amazing how many younglings are here who think they know everything.  That's really my point.  Did it ever cross your mind that I might be playing devil's advocate?  Nooooooooooo..... Can't be... I'm Tom.... noooooo


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The threads you request are "The Unrefuted" (an amalgamation of previous arguments that went without any satisfactory rebuttal) and "Photographic evidence for a Round Earth".

I didn't post in The Unrefuted.  In the Photographic thread, I was the one who questioned the height of Everest.  Please learn to distinguish who posts what before telling someone to answer.

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No, no, EIRD, you sound a lot more mature than people like sokarul and akira.  You get to hang with us.  You're cool.

Haha, anyone can "hang" with anyone here, you're not stopping anybody.

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And I agree, I don't understand why it also degenerate into this... I mean, come on man... So many of you (most?) think we are totally nuts here... but what the hell did you expect?  Did you guys expect to come here and have everyone nod their heads when you prove round earth theory?  Some of you really need to work on setting your expectations.

To put it bluntly, yes.

Well then, you are going to be very disappointed in life.  I bet you throw your slippers at the TV whenever you hear something you don't like. ;)

No two people see eye to eye on everything.  Try arguing like this in any relationship, and let's see how far your "logic" will go.

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Haha! Please read my posts full of logic and proofs to see how much respect you FEers give such trivial concepts...

We did, and the logic and proofs just don't make sense.  I'm sorry that all that work you did didn't result in us becoming round earth theorists like you would have hoped it would.  But we must pursue the truth at all costs, even if it means disappointing our flat earth friends.

Do you ever get tired of trying to act smarter then you are?

Sokarul... you're one of the round earth people that I could truly live without on this flat earth.

Don't you ever get tired of coming here?  Oh yeah, you come here for fun and you're bored.  But every time you open your mouth, you sound like you are irritated and frustrated.  I am not responsible for how you feel, kiddo.  Now why don't you go watch some TV or some porn so that we adults can talk.

Nope, I came here because someone posted this site on another forum.  I will be here until the site closes. 

You keep talking about the scientific method yet you are probably a business major working in a cubical with no windows in sight. 

Scientists observe something, make a theory, and then figure out a way to test the theory.  You make up theories from stuff you haven't even seen and then just assume they are right.  The only scientific method that is wrong is yours. 

And BTW I'm 22, not exactly a kid.

That's what they all say... Someone posted about this on another forum... but that still doesn't explain why you spend so much time here... I read stuff posted by people all the time, and I don't go following them over there.  Could it be because you too question what you have been taught?


No my theories are based on what I see with my own two eyes.

And 22 is a kid... when I was your age, I didn't know who the hell I was (I also thought the earth was round--can you believe that?)

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Haha! Please read my posts full of logic and proofs to see how much respect you FEers give such trivial concepts...

We did, and the logic and proofs just don't make sense.  I'm sorry that all that work you did didn't result in us becoming round earth theorists like you would have hoped it would.  But we must pursue the truth at all costs, even if it means disappointing our flat earth friends.

Do you ever get tired of trying to act smarter then you are?

Sokarul... you're one of the round earth people that I could truly live without on this flat earth.

Don't you ever get tired of coming here?  Oh yeah, you come here for fun and you're bored.  But every time you open your mouth, you sound like you are irritated and frustrated.  I am not responsible for how you feel, kiddo.  Now why don't you go watch some TV or some porn so that we adults can talk.


Uhmm, I'm technically not an adult yet.  Does that mean I should shut up?  Anyway, what's with all the fighting here?  I thought this was FE debate and discussion, not tear-each-other-apartathon.

No, no, EIRD, you sound a lot more mature than people like sokarul and akira.  You get to hang with us.  You're cool.

And I agree, I don't understand why it also degenerate into this... I mean, come on man... So many of you (most?) think we are totally nuts here... but what the hell did you expect?  Did you guys expect to come here and have everyone nod their heads when you prove round earth theory?  Some of you really need to work on setting your expectations.

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We did, and the logic and proofs just don't make sense.  I'm sorry that all that work you did didn't result in us becoming round earth theorists like you would have hoped it would.  But we must pursue the truth at all costs, even if it means disappointing our flat earth friends.

Care to explain why? In the relevant threads of course. That means explaining why rather than just hand-waiving it with 'perspective effects' when it has been shown they could not account for what is observed.

Which threads?  I think you're confusing me with Tom again...

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Haha! Please read my posts full of logic and proofs to see how much respect you FEers give such trivial concepts...

We did, and the logic and proofs just don't make sense.  I'm sorry that all that work you did didn't result in us becoming round earth theorists like you would have hoped it would.  But we must pursue the truth at all costs, even if it means disappointing our flat earth friends.

Do you ever get tired of trying to act smarter then you are?

Sokarul... you're one of the round earth people that I could truly live without on this flat earth.

Don't you ever get tired of coming here?  Oh yeah, you come here for fun and you're bored.  But every time you open your mouth, you sound like you are irritated and frustrated.  I am not responsible for how you feel, kiddo.  Now why don't you go watch some TV or some porn so that we adults can talk.

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Haha! Please read my posts full of logic and proofs to see how much respect you FEers give such trivial concepts...

We did, and the logic and proofs just don't make sense.  I'm sorry that all that work you did didn't result in us becoming round earth theorists like you would have hoped it would.  But we must pursue the truth at all costs, even if it means disappointing our flat earth friends.

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It's pretty hard to explain why someone makes no sense...they just don't.

Oh yes, of course.  No logic, no proofs what so ever.  Just divine intervention I guess.

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So Round Earth Conspiracists tries to prove you're Tom and you take this as evidence for REers use of scientific method. Fantastic.

I made that earlier post because you weren't making any sense...

Oh right, but you can't explain why.  You can only say so covertly using a sarcastic remark.

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Truly irrefutable. You win all debates henceforth with your outstanding knowledge of scientific method.

Oh yes, you can't answer my questions so you instead make a sarcastic remark.  By the way, who said I had an outstanding knowledge of the scientific method?  Do you need to be an expert in something to question it?

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Now about the second point... humans can create devices which are more truthful than they are.  What if one day we were able to create artificial intelligence to rival man, and this machine came to the conclusion that humans are a threat to the universe and should be wiped out?  Is it then justifiable for the computer to systematically destroy the human race?  And going back to the first point, if these computers were able to convince the majority of humans of the validity of their proofs, then doesn't this make it out to be true?
Let's put Artificial Intelligence in perspective: As computer scientists we are still struggling with the very simple problems that we have tried to solve since the 60's. We have been successful with some tasks that are solvable by brute force, like chess, but still struggle with apparently simple things like understanding written or spoken language, recognizing objects in images and the like. The day when a machine is more intelligent than a human is so far off that we can only leave the the subject to Science Fiction.

As for your question of why did I come to this site, I am very interested in the severe problem that scientists have to make people understand the principles of science. Why do intelligent people like you have trouble understanding the difference between evidence, proof and truth? Why do people think scientists are looking back, trying to hide errors of the past? Or trying to prove what has already been decided is "true"?

True science is written when an apparent absurdity is backed by solid evidence. For example, Einstein told us that a single object could at the same time weigh less than a grain of sand and more than a car, depending on the observer. But solid evidence backs Einstein.

Seeing the way Flat Earthers think is interesting, since it they go about exactly in the opposite direction. They start from the truth as they see it, which is not absurd for somebody with no knowledge of physics, astronomy, mathematics or history, and work towards explaining what they already decided to be true. And this is happening in several areas, not just the shape of Earth.

As for flat earth theorists starting with the truth first, I can say that about most of the round earth theorists here.  They don't question the scientific method.  They are so convinced that if they follow it, it will lead them to truth.  They start by saying only science can know the truth, and then they're off to the races.

And some of them don't even practice what they preach.  Let's take Round Earth Conspiracist as an example.  He starts with the belief that I'm Tom, and then he goes about looking for evidence.

And isn't this what scientists do all the time?  They come up with a hypothesis.  They didn't discover the hypothesis.  They themselves thought it all up.  Then they go about testing their hypothesis.  If science really didn't start with guessing what the "truth" is, I'm puzzled as to know how it works. 

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3. Truth is ever changing.  With more reliable formulas and computers, previous truths are discarded and replaced by new truths.



Well, thats kinda obvius isn't it? It's called evolution. Some theories are false, and they were replaced with true ones. So previous truths aren't truths, but they aren't lies either, they were just false.

I don't think so.  I know I'm me and not Tom.  This will never change.  There is no way on earth (even a round one) that I can become Tom one day.  There is only one Tom and he occupies a separate physical space from me.  Therefore, I know this will never change.

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