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Messages - Chris Spaghetti

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Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Veganism = Attention Seeking
« on: February 01, 2023, 01:25:19 AM »
Think about a Thanksgiving dinner.

There are side dishes. There in fact are side dishes enough to fill you without ever touching the turkey.


Moreover, there is nothing preventing you from cooking your own food. If asked to prepare and clean a vegan Thanksgiving meal themselves, most "vegans" instead of rising to the challenge, instead want the host to cook an addition meal just for them. This proves that it's really not about animal cruelty at all, but special snowflakism. Sure, you are welcome to use the kitchen to bake a vegetable casserole with no lard, butter, or cream. You are in turn expected to clean that pan. But when it becomes about other people treating your differently from the other guests, you are basically a narcissist asshole.

To be honest, I think that it comes down to manners. If you invite someone to a meal, knowing that they're a vegan, then I think that it's reasonable for you to ask them to cook them a meal they can actually eat. If you didn't know and you find out the day before, then I think it's reasonable to say 'Oh, sorry, we've got all this stuff for x, y and z, but you're welcome to bring something along.'

If this were about not eating an animal that has cruelly been killed, what defines cruelty? Thanks to Temple Grandin, most animals killed for meat are prepped in such a way that they cannot see other animals killed (stress hormones can actually alter the flavor of the meat), and are often knocked out prior to being killed. Generally, animals are killed humanely.

The moral objection to the killing of animals is not just at the moment of death (which, by the way isn't always humane. Bolt guns to stun cows don't always reach their mark, between 9-32% require multiple shots, but also how they're raised up to that point. Chickens suffering organ failure due to excessive growth, pigs trapped in farrowing crates, etc.

But let's assume you want to define all killing as inhumane. Is torture inhumane? Suppose an island was filled with rabbits, and they were slowly eating all the grass and other shrubbery on the island. Don't you think maybe shooting every fifth rabbit to prevent rabbits from eating the last leaf ever and turning into skinny rabbits that slowly digest their own bodies is more humane? Starvation is a very long and painful way to go.

We're not dealing with Bunnyopolis, though. It's an irrelevant thought-experiment.

Or this:
It turns out that while letting cattle graze on naturally occurring grass is friendly to the local environment, bulldozing massive stretches of land to grow crops on means that snakes and rabbits and foxes and groundhogs all get to DIE while the bulldozer cuts them up into little pieces.

The majority of crops are grown for livestock. We cannot support the amount of meat consumed in the world today on natural grazing. In addition, much of the 'natural pasture' land was cleared for grazing in the first place and is currently the leading cause of deforestation in places like Brazil and Australia.

There's also an unmentioned fact of farming. When you don't eat something for meat, don't use it for wool, and don't need its eggs, it either becomes a pet or you have to put it down (or release into the wild, where developers squash it with a bulldozer when they make the next town).

We could choose not to breed them into existence in the first place.

You wanna be vegetarian? Know yourself out, but do it the traditional way without a tractor. Drink milk and support the dairy industry. Eat eggs and use wool. Don't consign animals to being put down because farmers now have no use for them.

There is no reality where veganism is adopted so quickly that every farmer decides to cull their entire livestock overnight. Ideally it becomes adopted over time so that farmers simply have to breed fewer and fewer animals.

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA signup thread
« on: February 01, 2023, 01:02:24 AM »
Wishing him and your whole family the best of luck.

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA signup thread
« on: January 31, 2023, 01:15:25 AM »
So my stepdad's father just got out of the hospital I think.
He has stage 4 small cell lung cancer or something like that.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you and your family are coping all right. Is it treatable?

If he takes Chemo, he has 1 year to live (at most).
Without chemo, it's 3-4 weeks (again, at most).

Ah Jesus, that's rough.

Does he know which route he wants to go down? I know that my Nan didn't want to continue with the chemo close to the end, she preferred to go quickly rather than prolonging things.

All you can offer him now is your time and support. Good luck and best wishes.

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA start times
« on: January 31, 2023, 01:12:25 AM »
It's been a long time, but I'm happy to help co-narrating.

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA signup thread
« on: January 30, 2023, 01:44:35 AM »
So my stepdad's father just got out of the hospital I think.
He has stage 4 small cell lung cancer or something like that.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you and your family are coping all right. Is it treatable?

Arts & Entertainment / Re: What are you reading?
« on: January 24, 2023, 06:39:11 AM »

This is Vegan Propaganda (& Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) by Ed Winters

A good overview of the arguments and realities of the meat industry, but so far, I'm wishing that the author delved a little deeper on each point before moving on.

A good starting point of people wondering why vegans feel the way they do, but not particularly in-depth.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Good Anime Recommends
« on: January 24, 2023, 06:31:50 AM »
Is there any anime which isn't 90% flustered sexual moaning and panty shots of girls of questionable age?

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA DELAYED?
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:41:49 AM »
Sorry, but the game might be delayed due to my personal health and family issuies.
My stepdad's father has been diagnosed with Cancer so he goes to the hospital to see him often.

Ah no! Hope that everything works out for you!

The Lounge / Re: Pills
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:41:02 AM »
Good luck, and well done on being strong enough to take them!

The Lounge / Re: Hi all. Haven't been here in awhile
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:40:20 AM »
Lots of oldies coming back, by the looks of things. I wonder what that's all about?

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 20, 2023, 11:12:15 AM »
Sokarul! How are you?
Hey. I’m the same as always. Dont post much in the upper forums. It not what it used to be.

I don't remember the last time I went up there, even before I flounced away

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 01:17:21 PM »
Now people just say awful shit but it's not funny.

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 10:54:46 AM »
I remember the first time I posted from my phone and the forum had a little phone icon below it. It was so rare that just posting from your phone was a noteworthy thing.

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 10:52:04 AM »
No, I think the last time I looked for it the forum was gone.

Makes sense, I built it on one of those free forum hosting sites that were so common in the mid-00s

This forum and the culture around it is like a flashback to those days of the Internet where you could build your own sites and create a little bubble all your own. It's like Play-by-forum RPGs that have faded away.


I feel old now.

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 09:43:24 AM »
Mr Spaghetti also founded The Flat Mars Society.

Is that still going?

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 08:32:31 AM »
Sokarul! How are you?

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 08:12:56 AM »
Jura, he wrote The Book.

The first long-form fiction that I ever wrote.

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 19, 2023, 08:12:16 AM »

Jura sidles up to Spacey and stage whispers.

“This guy, what you got, I mean he’s done the hours and hails from the golden age that you go on about wistfully, all the time, you know when men were men and we weren’t here, I could read some of his old posts, but that seems a bit creepy and a bit too much effort truth be told, I wouldn’t usually ask but he’s on the werepenguin team and that shit is serious.”

You could read the old posts but you won't find any wisdom there.

I'm mostly back because I got nostalgic for werewolfpenguin.

I used to run those games back in the day, my favourite version was the alien Invasion themed one.

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA signup thread
« on: January 19, 2023, 12:31:58 AM »
Registered 2007.

Brace yourselves gentle sirs,  We have a bad ass in our company.

Just an ol' warhorse bein' pulled outta retirement for one last campaign.

The Lounge / Re: Werepenguin AUSTRALIA signup thread
« on: January 18, 2023, 11:06:27 PM »
Count me in

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 18, 2023, 11:04:05 PM »
Hello Chris Spaghetti!

Speaking of old-school members, hi!

The Lounge / Re: Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 18, 2023, 02:52:26 PM »
Looking over the forum, there are a few other names and avatars I recognise. Genuinely can't believe this forum is still going all these years later. I think that it was about 7 years ago I last logged on!

The Lounge / Chris Spaghetti - The Return
« on: January 18, 2023, 02:01:28 PM »
There's a new series on the BBC called The Traitors that reminded me of the old games of Werewolf we used to play.

Any old-school FES members still knocking around?

The Lounge / Re: What is your sex?
« on: October 22, 2015, 05:57:27 AM »
My sex is mind-blowing. That's all you need to know.

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Science vs Philosophy
« on: February 12, 2014, 12:59:27 AM »
Science is a subset of philosophy known as 'natural philosophy.' All science is therefore philosophy but not all philosophy is science.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: TESO
« on: November 29, 2013, 08:23:58 AM »
The servers for ESO are also quite a bit bigger than for WoW, which means a lot more players.  There also doesn't need to be a defined goal for level 50s to gank and grief lower level players (PvP flagging does take care of this though).  There were an absurd number of players in Cryodiil, more people assaulting one base than I've seen on one of the full WoW servers in the main city.  There were also at least 2 main forces of one army of about the same size.  This doesn't even begin to include the other 2 armies.

If these numbers of people were unleashed on other faction territories, they would likely storm a main city and constantly grief lower level players by wrecking their quest progression by killing the NPCs.

Like a real war, then?

Arts & Entertainment / Re: Now Playing (the Video Game Version!)
« on: November 28, 2013, 02:51:01 PM »
You can play as individual counties on EU?
They weren't exactly counties in 1444. Not that the map is accurate at all since Ireland was a complete mindfuck at the time, but still.

That would have been the time that there were multiple kingdoms who had a 'high king' over them? If I remember my Irish history right.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: TESO
« on: November 28, 2013, 02:48:10 PM »
How awful.

Indeed. This sounds like the most boring war in history.

And game-breaking, for me, anyhow. I can accept invisible walls when the game actually ends or there is a good reason that you can't go beyond them (The best example I can think of recently is Driver: San Francisco where you were in Tanner's mind and he simply hadn't imagined that part of the city yet)

But if I could watch other players happily going across borders only to find myself holds back all pretence of Role Playing.

Arts & Entertainment / Re: TESO
« on: November 28, 2013, 11:03:14 AM »
I imagine there are guards between boarders that you can sneak past or kill to enter other nations, but you'll be in hostile territory and always in threat of being attacked.

No, it's faction-locked.  You simply can't enter the other factions' territories.

How awful.

You started with Mao and thought, 'this is a political philosophy I could relate to'?

I mean, reading Marx or Engels, sure, but Mao?

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