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Messages - digimonkey

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1
Flat Earth Debate / Re: RET Destroyed: Objects do not fall at the same rate
« on: December 15, 2012, 08:11:44 PM »
Interesting video, but it didn't really answer my question.  Can we presume to understand the energy of a single photon without knowing it's frequency?  I believe that is the most simplistic way I can put it.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Source of Magnetism
« on: December 15, 2012, 07:55:55 PM »
Both magnetic poles are underneath the geographical north pole (roughly).

Underneath, like under the Earth vertically?

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Round the world flights
« on: December 15, 2012, 07:37:20 PM »
Actually I think the big question is how do ships find their way if they are using gyro compasses that rely on the rotation of the Earth.  Does FET say that FE rotates because if not that'd cause some major issues.  If FE rotates then comes the question does the atmosphere rotate too?  It must or else we'd have some pretty hefty winds.  If the atmosphere does rotate with the Earth, what keeps it from being spun away from earth or at least from the center?

Good question.

The FE'ers are kind of conflicted.  Some say that the FE and the "Atmolayer" rotates but if that were true we'd all go flying into the Icewall.  Others point to "Celestial Gears" which make the rest of the universe rotate around the FE.

If the whole universe rotated in unison and the Earth was flat, this would point to equal atmospheric pressure within the entire universe or at least down around the Earth.  Something most oppose the atmosphere from escaping a spinning disk.   I suppose this could only be explained in FE as the Earth being an infinite plane?

What about the oceans however?  If one thing is uniform about FE, is that the world as we know it is surrounded by ice, or an ice covered land mass.  The flat Earth spinning should definitely have consequences on the oceans?

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: RET Destroyed: Objects do not fall at the same rate
« on: December 15, 2012, 04:09:12 PM »
While we're on subject of light having momentum, how does this work when momentum = mass * velocity?  I'm not doubting as we know light is energy and E = hf only works for waves while light is both a particle and wave, it just seems contradictory and I've never heard it thoroughly explained.


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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Round the world flights
« on: December 15, 2012, 11:06:42 AM »
Actually I think the big question is how do ships find their way if they are using gyro compasses that rely on the rotation of the Earth.  Does FET say that FE rotates because if not that'd cause some major issues.  If FE rotates then comes the question does the atmosphere rotate too?  It must or else we'd have some pretty hefty winds.  If the atmosphere does rotate with the Earth, what keeps it from being spun away from earth or at least from the center?

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: RET Destroyed: Objects do not fall at the same rate
« on: December 15, 2012, 10:17:58 AM »
You have an MS in biotech? I'm considering getting the same. Do you think it was worth it?

OP:  When values in a math equation change, so do the results.  That's essentially what I got out of it anyways.

And yet according to RET they shouldn't.

RET says no such thing.  Terminal Velocity takes into account mass.  Why wouldn't it?  The OP is talking about two different things and saying one equals the other. 

In the OP scenario the objects would fall at the same rate, but the object with less mass would stop accelerating before the object with more mass.  However the acceleration is absolutely the same for both objects up until that point.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Other planets
« on: December 12, 2012, 01:29:46 PM »
I'm pretty sure most if not all FE people believe planets are spheres. 

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Source of Magnetism
« on: December 12, 2012, 12:23:28 PM »
Compasses follow magnetic field lines. They don't point to the center of the earth.
Yes, but if I'm understanding your model correctly, the magnetic field lines would extent vertically out of the center and go back vertically through the other parts of the earth. The compass would want to align up and down.

They believe the South Pole/Antartica forms a ring around the other Continents.  So the south pole is not vertical to the north pole, but completely surrounds the north pole, 360 degrees.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: RET Destroyed: Objects do not fall at the same rate
« on: December 11, 2012, 07:42:13 AM »
OP:  When values in a math equation change, so do the results.  That's essentially what I got out of it anyways.







10
Flat Earth General / Re: I bet I can prove the ISS is real.
« on: November 01, 2012, 10:45:44 AM »
I'd actually agree with the FE believers here.  A photo of something doesn't mean it exists.  I am curious though what FE believers make of this:

http://news.discovery.com/space/moon-mirror-apollo.html

Does FE theory say there is a natural cause to why you can bounce lasers off the moon, and why at around a full moon the reflection is degraded?


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Flat Earth Q&A / Re: The creation of the universe
« on: October 25, 2012, 08:17:49 AM »
the big bang was one huge explosion and in no way a constant source of energy. it wasn't focused in one direction becaue wherever you point your instruments, you see remains of that energy in the microwaves spectrum.

ua doesn't work because nothing could generate constant acceleration for billion of years.

And yet, top round-earth physicists say that one day all the stars in the sky will be moving away from every other star faster than the speed of light.
This definitely requires a quote. Until recently, no scientist would tell you if the expansion was accelerating or decelerating, so my guess is not one scientist has ever even suggested expansion beyond the speed of light.

I've heard this hypothesized before.  The idea is that the universe itself contains space and time, which is where the limit of faster than light travel exists.  As far as universe expansion...we don't know if a limiting factor exists.  I was under the impression the consensus was in fact that the universe was expanding faster, though nobody knows why or to what ends.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 25, 2012, 05:34:48 AM »
Yes if you really want to discuss this matter further make a new thread.  I won't be discussing it though because all modern evidence points to it being a comet or a chunk that fell off Comet Encke which was passing by at the time. 

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 24, 2012, 04:40:09 PM »
@RealScientist:  See what I mean?  They want to argue a point nobody is making invalid. 

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 24, 2012, 11:21:50 AM »
Quote
In general, as people interested in Science, I think we should discuss the quality of the information available, not as a comment on each other but as part of any review of scientific articles.

This is really not worth our time.

I completely agree, and will not argue this topic with Levee especially since he uses eye witness accounts I've never heard of before.  However it should be at least argued that to reject an idea you need to accurately represent the idea you're rejecting.  Making up ideas you can reject is a bit bizarre.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:55:17 AM »
@RealScientist I was simply pointing out that the base assumption Levee is running with is wrong.  I stated the current theory pertaining to the lights people seen in the north from Europe during the Tunguska event.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 24, 2012, 06:52:09 AM »
Regarding the Tunguska event.  It's well believed that the lights eyewitnesses were referring to were left over ice crystals in the upper atmosphere from the path of the meteorite.

"Soviet experiments performed in the mid-1960s, with model forests (made of matches on wire stakes) and small explosive charges slid downward on wires, produced butterfly shaped blast patterns strikingly similar to the pattern found at the Tunguska site. The experiments suggested that the object had approached at an angle of roughly 30 degrees from the ground and 115 degrees from north and had exploded in mid-air."

Since claims where that the light was coming from the north and not from the east and that it lasted for a few days seems to validate this theory.  So your 2D diagram is far far from accurate.  I'd draw something up myself but I feel that even typing this response is a waste of time.



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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 23, 2012, 08:34:56 AM »
You're probably right in a sense, but he does mention the phrase 'visual obstacle' which to me sounds like he expects the hill to impede the view of buildings.  That can be mathematically disproven.


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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 23, 2012, 07:12:46 AM »
What's the calculation to get a 59 meter hill in front of an observer at a height of 240m looking over a distance of 55km?

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 23, 2012, 06:48:09 AM »
I'm not trying to grasp at straws.  I'm trying to understand your argument.  It seems like it all relies on the quote below.  Please further explain this.

Quote
At a distance of 55 km, on a spherical earth we would see a midpoint (highest point) curvature obstacle of some 59 meters, following an ascending slope, and a descending slope to be complete.

Why at a height of 240m and a distance of 55km should I see a 59 meter hill?

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 23, 2012, 06:27:15 AM »


I'm not sure why you even use this image.  It's obvious there is a mirage effect here as the Toronto skyline doesn't look like this.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 23, 2012, 06:19:34 AM »
Quote
What YOU do not get or understand, is that even from 240 meters, we MUST see an ascending slope, and a midpoint visual obstacle of some 59 meters, no such thing is present in the photographs.

No, we don't.  There would be no ascending slope at a distance of 55km.  There would be a downward slope only.  You're operating on false assumptions or bad math.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 23, 2012, 05:45:42 AM »
Quote
On a spherical Earth there MUST be a slope, otherwise you agree the Earth is flat.

You cannot use thermal inversion when we have clear photographs taken from some 240 m in altitude. Thermal inversion (looming) can be used as an argument in the case of eyewitness accounts who are located on the beach/shoreline of the point of observation; in the case of clear photographs, thermal inversion cannot make a 59 meter curvature simply disappear.

We can see the shoreline of Toronto NOT in spite of a 59 meter curvature, but in the absence of such a visual obstacle.

I'm not sure you get it.  At 240m there is no slope in the way.  There is still a slope for sure, but a line of sight calculation that can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line-of-sight_propagation says I can see over 55km from a height of 240m without the Earth's surface getting in the way.  If you're arguing you don't notice any downward slope, I'd argue of course you don't as It's too slight to notice. 

As far as the one taken from the lower altitude I don't know.  Like I said I'd like to see that picture taken again around the same area in winter and compare the results.  That'd remove the question of a looming effect.  As far as looming only occurring when you're on the shore line I'd say is false.  It's a matter of where the thermal inversion is taking place, and to what extent it's taking place.


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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 19, 2012, 12:54:24 PM »
Well if you're talking a 240 meter height difference from the observer to the horizon then the shot from Vinemount Ridge looks exactly like we'd think it'd look using the RE model.  There would be no slope in the way.  You could see easily to the shoreline of Toronto with no curvature obstructing your view.  I can model this if you insist you should see something. 

The shot from Beamer Falls is more interesting, there should definitely be water blocking the view of the bottom of the buildings.  However we know there has to be some refraction going on.  The water that separates Grimsby and Toronto is some of the coldest of Lake Ontario, and the shot was taken in the summer.  So I'd expect thermal inversion to happen.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 18, 2012, 06:50:40 AM »
My bad.  You said an altitude of 240m not a height.  Since the lake level is at about 75m that gives us a height difference of 165m.  Which would mean you could see about 46km out before your line of sight was obstructed by the curvature of the Earth.  Looking at google maps I see the distance is really closer to 53km than 55km between where this shot was taken and Toronto.  Still we should see some kind of obstruction of the buildings by the water. 

I know you're tired of hearing this but without some measurement of potential refraction this is still not an open and shut case.  I'd like to see this same shot taken in the winter and compare the difference.  We know these shots were taken in the spring or summer due to the green trees.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 17, 2012, 08:55:49 AM »
Not this again.  It's already been brought up at a height of 240 meters you can see a little over 55kms.   A drop of 59 meters over a distance of 55,000 meters is a grade of 0.1 percent.  What are you expecting to see here is the question?

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Does the world end at Antarctica?
« on: October 16, 2012, 12:12:07 PM »
Quote
According to that drawing, it would never get dark. The sun would revolve over the flat Earth, and it would be eternally day, or am I seeing that wrong?

No you're seeing it right.  As far as I'm aware the FE people never did make a model they could all agree on.  Also pretty sure anybody that supports the above depiction will mention something about light bending upwards, or some such nonsense.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Fe gravity as it relates to the speed of light
« on: October 09, 2012, 07:15:06 AM »
Quote
Conversely, if we are on a rotating Earth and somehow this atmosphere is turning with us, what is the coupling mechanism that enables it to do so? It must have some link to provide the torque to continue the coordinated rotation of the Earth with its wrapper of air. Would not a co-turning atmosphere and Earth mean nothing else could move the air? Otherwise, is not the air was acting as a solid, not a gas? No one has proposed a mechanism for this connection of the supposedly spinning Earth to the supposedly spinning air that is so strong that the atmosphere is forced to spin along with Earth, though otherwise it is free to move anywhere that gravity permits! We easily demonstrate the air’s freedom every time we walk through it or breathe it. Yet, we are told, the air obediently follows the Earth as it twirls through the heavens.

I always thought this had to do with air pressure and viscous friction.  As to why the atmosphere can move with the Earth at an incredible rate of speed and we can move against the atmosphere relatively easily, I think a good example would be a semi truck pulling a pool of water.  This water could be traveling at 60mph, but if we jumped in we could swim through it with ease as we're going the same speed.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: the 'hill' topic
« on: October 08, 2012, 12:46:07 PM »
It's really not semantics, you're just wrong.  In everyday life when you look down a hill things may be obstructed by it, and you may see taller objects in the distant but with part of their bottom structure cut off.  You need to think about it differently and I don't think at this point it can be put in any other way.  It's something you'll just have to realize in your own time.

i have shown it in pictures exactly what happens. can you demonstrate differently? so far all who have opposed have failed.
feel free to return to the discussion when you have something new to say with evidence to disprove my claim.

29silhouette already demonstrated how it works in about the best way you can giving the medium of communication.   You seem to be under the impression there is an incline of the Earth surface before a decline, and this is simply not how it works.  You really just need to think on the subject more and stop being so defensive about it.

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Flat Earth Q&A / Re: Flight time between Australia and Argentina
« on: October 06, 2012, 09:54:10 PM »
@Dino:  Or you could just use the round earth model, realize that you can fly the opposite way and it's about 7092 mile flight and at about 550mph  equals 12.9 hours thus forgoing the strange anomaly of increasing time over two fold for the voyagers on the plane that nobody seems to realize happens.

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Flat Earth Debate / Re: the 'hill' topic
« on: October 06, 2012, 09:30:32 PM »
It's really not semantics, you're just wrong.  In everyday life when you look down a hill things may be obstructed by it, and you may see taller objects in the distant but with part of their bottom structure cut off.  You need to think about it differently and I don't think at this point it can be put in any other way.  It's something you'll just have to realize in your own time. 

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