Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - mightychef

Pages: [1]
1
About a week ago, Heiwa informed me of his €1,000,000 challenge on his website, not the one about proving that the 9/11 incident was done by terrorists but the second one at the bottom of the page about the Apollo missions.  This is it:
Quote
The Anders Björkman Challenge 2 is first to calculate using first principles the amount of fuel (or energy) required to complete a manned Moon and/or planet Mars return trip after being ejected into space from Earth towards the Moon and/or planet Mars by external rockets, second to describe the space ship incl. its masses before/after the various maneuvers of the trip, any heat shield(s), if fitted, the engines and fuel tanks that can carry the amount of fuel using 1960 or 2015 technology, the accommodation for the persons aboard and finally to show that it is actually feasable to do the trip. Please do not present dreams and fantasies.
How I won was I showed him a simulator that when paired with a mod can simulate the Apollo missions, and I even offered to check the config files for realism.  As for the reentry part, I drew a diagram that illustrates how reentry capsules control their orientation and trajectory.  I have been presenting all this to Heiwa via PM's and he has not responded in almost a day now after I said "If I'm not mistaken, you owe me some money", so I figured that I might as well mention this on the forum to get the word out and to force him to not make the trademark flat earther move of ignoring my victory.

I understand that this is a long thread and this may have already been discussed, but I just wanted to chime in. I'm a RE, and I think that it's absolutely possible to complete the challenge, (whether Heiwa pays or not), but I think it is absurd that you think that you can declare yourself a winner and force Heiwa to pay you. That's not how this sort of challenge works. Heiwa accepts submissions, and without any other specifying language, it is clear that it is up to him to determine the viability of the submission. Ideally, if it were more serious, an independent body would judge submissions and Heiwa would provide evidence of availability of funds, but without that, the most obvious person to judge submissions would be Heiwa himself, not you. I can't think of any context in the entire set of social constructs in the world where merely by your own declaration of victory in a contest you have a valid claim to that victory, except perhaps declaring "shotgun", or "calling it", etc. This obviously doesn't fall into that category.

And if you really did refer him to a set of softwares with supplemental explanations and and an offer to "check the source code", I don't think you even completed a submission in the spirit of the challenge. He was clearly asking for a thorough report. How would Heiwa be reasonably expected to validate that you checked the source code, for example? Are you a software expert? Do you have credentials? Is Heiwa expected to run these simulations for himself? You could certainly use a simulator to validate your own results but the report should be complete, self contained, valid without external dependencies or conditions. And then, even when you submit the report, it's not only premature but presumptuous to declare yourself a winner. That's obvious to me as an observer, and I feel like I should call you out for it.

This doesn't absolve Heiwa if he does actually move the goal posts, but my opinion is that you haven't met them anyway, based on the limited dialogue I've read here.

My two cents. Apologies if this is already covered.

2
Flat Earth Q&A / Thickness of the disk?
« on: June 03, 2011, 05:56:34 AM »
How thick is the disk? Obviously, not everyone will come up with the same answer, since no one has any idea, but give me your proposals.

3
All ZA really does attempts to prove is *not sphere*.


No, Rowbotham "attempts to prove" that the Earth's surface is not curved. Ergo, it is flat.

If you inspect your logic, can you really accept it as is? Not curved may have left flat as the only conceivable option for Rowbotham, but I doubt that he considered all other possibilities.

4
However, if we are going to throw physics out the window - why settle for a disk-shaped earth? Why not a hyper-sphere, or some other unusual shape. Is earth really any more likely to be a flat disk than it is a hyper-sphere? If we disagree with physics as presented to us, then why settle for a physical system consistent with earth-as-a-disk when there are so many other options?
You mentioned everything except a cube shaped earth.  Congratulations.

I meant for the cube to be listed in the so-many-other-options section. Anyway, I would swallow hyper-geometry as a much more probable answer over flat earth + conspiracy theory.

5
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: FET falsifiability
« on: June 02, 2011, 01:33:42 PM »
I actually wasn't looking for bullet-proof science, I was just thinking it would be nice if the FE folk considered the case where they weren't correct in the design, and perhaps proposed other alternatives in such a case, (the alternatives may or may not include RE).

6
the whole thing? my god. so painful.

edit: also - ZA says that he is proving the earth a plane, but then forms all of his arguments like thus:

-assume the earth is a globe
-[experiments and stuff]
-aha! it cannot be!

this is more of the form of a disproof of globe than a proof of flatness. in fact, if you really disbelieve in roundness for the reasons as presented in ZA, then you should equally not believe in FE. FE is just a convenient model that seemed to fit with his calculations, just like RE was a convenient model that fit traditional astronomical calculation, which is precisely why he rejected it.

All ZA really does attempts to prove is *not sphere*.

7
We must settle for a Flat Earth because we've proven the earth is be flat.

See: Earth Not a Globe.

That's the whole thing though. Just because the earth is not a globe doesn't make it flat. Why not a hyper-sphere? or a hyper-cube, or any other shape?

8
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: FET falsifiability
« on: June 02, 2011, 11:31:02 AM »
you could do it yourself most likely with your own camera... possibly get better results with a bit of craftsmanship.

9
Here's how I see it.

The general consensus is that the world is more or less spherical. There is a certain population, however, which believes that it is not. Rather, that it is more or less disk-shaped.

However, the people who believe that it is disk shaped really have no idea what shape it is. They just believe that it is *not spherical*. I don't know why they believe that it isn't generally a sphere, but the reasons aren't always the same. Conspiracy theory and alternative ideas about physics are offered as explanations for the reason that things are not as they appear.

However, if we are going to throw physics out the window - why settle for a disk-shaped earth? Why not a hyper-sphere, or some other unusual shape. Is earth really any more likely to be a flat disk than it is a hyper-sphere? If we disagree with physics as presented to us, then why settle for a physical system consistent with earth-as-a-disk when there are so many other options?

10
Thanks for being specific. I hadn't thought enough about it - I realize that I was being ambiguous. I did, in fact, intend to talk about the apparent differences in absolute distance between these routes in the alternative models.

I'll read up the other threads for the moment.

11
On the disk map (of the flat earth), there seems to be a bit of a problem in that travel times between regions near the center (the north pole) should be significantly shorter than those along (or closer to) the perimeter (the ice wall). Thoughts?

12
Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: .999999999999...=1
« on: June 02, 2011, 08:41:31 AM »
does anyone seriously take issue with the fact that .9 repeating = 1?

13
Technology, Science & Alt Science / Re: Proof that pi=4
« on: June 02, 2011, 08:33:35 AM »
Did you guys figure out the problem with the OP proof yet? I couldn't read the whole thread, but the problem is that you aren't approximating the circle's perimeter by performing the "remove corners" operation.

To get away with approximation unto infinity to find the precise answer for something- you have to make sure that whatever operation you do is actually approaching the thing you are trying to approximate.

This figure does approach the AREA of the circle, but the set of figures with areas equivalent to a particular circle is infinite, and the perimeters of those figures range from the perimeter of the circle to infinity.

You HAVE to show that you are approximating the PERIMETER of the figure. You don't need any "disproof" of the logic beyond showing that it fails this.

14
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: FET falsifiability
« on: June 02, 2011, 08:04:47 AM »
what about launching a small rocket with a camera?

http://www.projectaether.org/products.html

15
Are there a few simple key points?

16
I met the evil version of myself once.  He gave me fruitbread.

That's horrible. He sounds very evil. Fruitbread is horrible.

17
Flat Earth Q&A / Is there a list of evidence that the world is flat?
« on: June 02, 2011, 06:46:17 AM »
I'm interested in this. I am starting to get the sense FE theories about physics and the nature of the universe are built specifically to prove that the earth is flat. I am also getting the sense that RE theory is moreso an exercise in evaluation of evidence.

So - what evidence is there that the world is flat? Or, does it depend *entirely* on the alternative physics forces?

In other words, what LEADS YOU to believe that the world is flat? Yes, there is the giant conspiracy that the earth is round. Yes, there is the giant ice wall that you can't visit. But, those key points require faith. You can't test those things. Why have this faith? Go back a step. What makes you think this way in the first place? Where is the point in time in which you realize that RE cannot be correct?

18
Maybe WE ARE THE EVIL VERSIONS?!?!?! omg.

Discuss.

19
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: FET falsifiability
« on: June 02, 2011, 06:20:33 AM »
So, what type of evidence would it take to convince a FE proponent that he or she was incorrect? Is there any?
If I were to to go into space personally or see a sinking ship (on the horizon, not literally) that could not be restored telescopically I would be fairly convinced of the earth's roundity. As it is, I am open to both theorems.

can you explain the telescopic restoration process? What does that mean, precisely?

20
Flat Earth Q&A / Re: FET falsifiability
« on: June 01, 2011, 12:17:06 PM »
It's a theoretical question. The implication is not that there is a mountain of irrefutable evidence. I am wondering whether there is a built-in means for falsification.

21
Flat Earth Q&A / FET falsifiability
« on: June 01, 2011, 12:07:00 PM »
So, what type of evidence would it take to convince a FE proponent that he or she was incorrect? Is there any?

Pages: [1]