The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Tal Cohen on August 01, 2021, 04:38:53 PM

Title: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Tal Cohen on August 01, 2021, 04:38:53 PM
Obviously Rand was a cabal propagandist.
Like all teenage boys I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.
The antigovernmental ideas are great; only problem is she admired the kind of scum which is Rockefeller.
It's interesting that the first place she visited when she immigrated to the states was none other than Hollywood.

I don't remember the book's ending, but the concept of the Atlases 
of the worlds vanishing because the government and 'society' rob them of their hard earned
inventions and achievements thru taxes and other forms of robbery resonates with Tartaria et al.

Because she was a shill, she obviously missed the mark either intentionally or naively, cuz she should
have also warned of the likes of Rockefeller (tho in that case she probably would have found an early death)
who steal through stuff like patents, Federal Reserve lies and deception.

The way it resonates with Tartaria is of course the fact that certain so called humans
destroyed any remnant of that ancient technology and repurposed it.
They were the real Atlases.

More interestingly In Hebrew the book is called "Mered Ha'nephilim",
literally 'rebellion of the nephilim' or giants, which corresponds to the fact Atlas was a Titan.


Interesting to ponder if she was aware of any of that, or was simply an oblivious pawn.
 
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 01, 2021, 04:50:13 PM
we're all going to die again
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: markjo on August 01, 2021, 06:08:24 PM
I don't remember the book's ending, but the concept of the Atlases 
of the worlds vanishing because the government and 'society' rob them of their hard earned
inventions and achievements thru taxes and other forms of robbery resonates with Tartaria et al.
Personally, I took it as extreme communism vs extreme capitalism.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Crouton on August 01, 2021, 08:48:24 PM
If I recall the novel ends with John Galt scolding people in general for supporting the sort of social safety nets that Ayn Rand herself would end up relying on to avoid dying in poverty.

Rand's outlook really only makes sense in Soviet Russia.  The novel is entertaining sort of.  The movies are fun to hate watch.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Mikey T. on August 02, 2021, 04:37:36 AM
There is a balance that must be maintained between the good of society and the good of the individual.  They aren't mutually exclusive but they are not the same thing either.  Freedom to enjoy the fruits of one's labor givesrise to one half of the drive to iinnovation.  The other half is there has to be people to utilize that innovation, society.  Society needs to be strong enough to keep up with the ambitions of the ultra driven or both die off.  Taxation is necessary theft, up until the tax is unnecessary.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: JJA on August 02, 2021, 05:30:46 AM
There is a balance that must be maintained between the good of society and the good of the individual.  They aren't mutually exclusive but they are not the same thing either.  Freedom to enjoy the fruits of one's labor givesrise to one half of the drive to iinnovation.  The other half is there has to be people to utilize that innovation, society.  Society needs to be strong enough to keep up with the ambitions of the ultra driven or both die off.  Taxation is necessary theft, up until the tax is unnecessary.

I don't agree that one has to enjoy the fruits of ones labor to innovate, meaning getting paid or getting rich.

There are plenty of innovations that people made because they simply wanted a better world, or just enjoyed creating.

Open source software is made with unpaid volunteers and a great deal of our current computer infrastructure was developed by people who were not paid and are unknown. No fame, no fortune, they just enjoy making things.

I simply don't agree that if we take away incentives that suddenly humans will stop creating things. It's like saying if we put a cap on how much a painting can sell for, people will just stop making art entirely if they can only get at most a million for their painting or a banana on a wall.

Taxation is only needed because the people with the wealth are unwilling to use it to maintain the system that they depend on, unless they are forced to, through taxes.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Shifter on August 02, 2021, 05:39:12 AM
Taxation is only needed because the people with the wealth are unwilling to use it to maintain the system that they depend on, unless they are forced to, through taxes.

Except that it's the wealthy who end up not paying any tax and the plebs shouldering the burden
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: JJA on August 02, 2021, 07:33:47 AM
Taxation is only needed because the people with the wealth are unwilling to use it to maintain the system that they depend on, unless they are forced to, through taxes.

Except that it's the wealthy who end up not paying any tax and the plebs shouldering the burden

That is indeed how things tend to go.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 02, 2021, 09:02:30 AM
I thought Ayn Rand was great when I was in the 9th grade. lol
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 02, 2021, 10:48:23 AM
The book for teenage boys when I was growing up was 1984. A much better option I'm sure.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Shifter on August 02, 2021, 11:15:44 AM
The book for teenage boys when I was growing up was 1984. A much better option I'm sure.

I had to read 'Brave New World'
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Tal Cohen on August 02, 2021, 03:05:41 PM
The book for teenage boys when I was growing up was 1984. A much better option I'm sure.

That one too. More relevant than ever.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: JJA on August 02, 2021, 03:53:03 PM
Rand was a muppet, they're everywhere. It's clear in her writings it was typed with a furry glove.

Just look at the letters.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: markjo on August 02, 2021, 04:03:06 PM
I thought Ayn Rand was great when I was in the 9th grade. lol
I'm not sure, but I think I was around 30ish when I read Atlas Shrugged.  I guess I was too old and jaded to enjoy it properly.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 02, 2021, 04:30:42 PM
I thought Ayn Rand was great when I was in the 9th grade. lol
I'm not sure, but I think I was around 30ish when I read Atlas Shrugged.  I guess I was too old and jaded to enjoy it properly.

Probably lots of books like that.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: markjo on August 02, 2021, 05:51:21 PM
I thought Ayn Rand was great when I was in the 9th grade. lol
I'm not sure, but I think I was around 30ish when I read Atlas Shrugged.  I guess I was too old and jaded to enjoy it properly.

Probably lots of books like that.
I'm more into scifi/fantasy, so it wasn't my usual read.  But sometimes I feel obligated to read some of the "classics" just to see if they're worth the hype.  Some were, some weren't.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 02, 2021, 06:44:05 PM

Taxation is only needed because the people with the wealth are unwilling to use it to maintain the system that they depend on, unless they are forced to, through taxes.

So, if an evil greedy wealthy person buys a $250,000,000 yacht there is a workforce of hundreds of skilled craftsmen that worked and got paid for their effort.
Because they have specialized skills, shipwrights get paid good money.


Are you suggesting that everyone needs welfare?



Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 03, 2021, 02:15:27 AM

Are you suggesting that everyone needs welfare?
Are you suggesting nobody needs welfare?
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: JJA on August 03, 2021, 06:29:06 AM

Taxation is only needed because the people with the wealth are unwilling to use it to maintain the system that they depend on, unless they are forced to, through taxes.

So, if an evil greedy wealthy person buys a $250,000,000 yacht there is a workforce of hundreds of skilled craftsmen that worked and got paid for their effort.
Because they have specialized skills, shipwrights get paid good money.

If billionaires spent all their billions instead of sticking it in overseas accounts and sitting on it, then yes, that would be just fine.  If they spent every billion they got on new yachts then the economy would be in much better shape.

Right now the world is drowning in unused cash just sitting around in piles that get bigger and bigger and the more that gets sucked into billionaires pockets the less there is for people to get paid and spend it.

Remember, money is only useful if it's being spent.  That is part of why taxes exist, to ensure money circulates and doesn't just sit there.

Are you suggesting that everyone needs welfare?

Where did I say welfare? How interesting... you don't think the rich need anything?

What I'm suggesting is that everyone needs roads and police and fire fighters and infrastructure and if you are a billionaire who avoids paying taxes you are benefiting from all of that without paying for it.

Everyone benefits from roads and common infrastructure, everyone should help pay for them.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: markjo on August 03, 2021, 04:29:41 PM
Right now the world is drowning in unused cash just sitting around in piles that get bigger and bigger and the more that gets sucked into billionaires pockets the less there is for people to get paid and spend it.
Incorrect.  Most of the billionaires' wealth is based on their stock portfolio and the whims of the market.  If they were to cash in significant chunks of their stocks, that could easily trigger speculators into a mass selloff and tanking those stocks.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Shifter on August 03, 2021, 06:06:48 PM
Right now the world is drowning in unused cash just sitting around in piles that get bigger and bigger and the more that gets sucked into billionaires pockets the less there is for people to get paid and spend it.
Incorrect.  Most of the billionaires' wealth is based on their stock portfolio and the whims of the market.  If they were to cash in significant chunks of their stocks, that could easily trigger speculators into a mass selloff and tanking those stocks.

I'm sure they'll still enjoy a pay day worth hundreds of lifetimes of an average salary workers worth

Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 03, 2021, 07:26:05 PM

Remember, money is only useful if it's being spent.

My 401k thinks you are a retart.

Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: JJA on August 04, 2021, 04:30:05 AM

Remember, money is only useful if it's being spent.

My 401k thinks you are a retart.

LOL. Tell me how useful your 401k account is to you if you don't spend it.  I'd like to see how that works.
Title: Re: Atlas Shrugged
Post by: Shifter on August 04, 2021, 04:49:19 AM
You get some really frugal people that die very rich. They lived a poor man's life for what?

Sure, being frugal helps you to be rich but at some point you should let go and enjoy yourself