The Flat Earth Society
Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: FlatAssembler on March 16, 2021, 01:03:00 PM
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What do you guys here think, is "𐌓𐌀𐌔𐌄𐌍𐌀𐌋 𐌖𐌓𐌔𐌌𐌉𐌍𐌉 𐌋𐌖𐌐𐌖𐌂𐌄 𐌇𐌀𐌍𐌕𐌉 𐌆𐌀𐌈𐌓𐌖𐌌 𐌖𐌏𐌛 𐌀𐌖𐌉𐌋𐌀𐌓𐌉 𐌍𐌀𐌍𐌀𐌕𐌍𐌀𐌌 𐌉𐌍𐌂 𐌇𐌀𐌌𐌈𐌉𐌍" (transliterated: "Rasenal ursmini lupuce hanti zaθrum vor avilari nanatnam inc hamθin.") good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language died two thousand (literally, twenty hundreds) years ago and nobody understands it."? Let me explain how I arrived at that translation.
𐌓𐌀𐌔𐌄𐌍𐌀𐌋 - "Rasena" means "Etruscan", as in, "Etruscan person", so, if you add the genitive suffix "-l" to it, so that it reads "Rasenal", it could probably mean "Etruscan" as an adjective.
𐌖𐌓𐌔𐌌𐌉𐌍𐌉 - "Ursmini" means "speech" or "sermon", whence Latin "sermo". I suppose it can be used to mean "language".
𐌋𐌖𐌐𐌖𐌂𐌄 - "Lupu" means "to die", and "-ke" is the past tense marker, so "lupuke" would mean "died".
𐌇𐌀𐌍𐌕𐌉 - "hanti", apparently an Indo-European loanword, meant "before". I suppose it could also be used to mean "ago", but I am not sure.
𐌆𐌀𐌈𐌓𐌖𐌌 𐌖𐌏𐌛 - Now, Etruscan, as far as I know, had no word meaning "thousand". However, we know from the gloss that "vorsum" means "centum pedes" (a hundred feet) that "vor" meant "hundred", and we know that "zathrum" meant "twenty", so I guess "zathrum vor" would be a proper way of saying "two thousand".
𐌀𐌖𐌉𐌋𐌀𐌓𐌉 - "avilari", I suppose that would be the proper locative plural of "avil" (year).
𐌍𐌀𐌍𐌀𐌕𐌍𐌀𐌌 - "nana-tnam", "nana" meaning "nobody" and "tnam" being the suffix corresponding to Latin "-que".
𐌉𐌍𐌂 - "inc", a pronoun meaning "it".
𐌇𐌀𐌌𐌈𐌉𐌍 - "hamthin" means "to understand".
I have put "inc" before "hamthin" because I know Etruscan was an SOV-language, like Latin.
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You posting this crap here has it was ignored on Reddit?
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(https://www.g20.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/aw-jeez-not-this-shit-again.13769/full)
That's what I think
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I don't think you are saying it correctly.
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Too many "I suppose" for it to be correct.
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Why do you only speak dead languages?
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Why do you only speak dead languages?
Not just dead, but largely rotted away in this case. His translation fits into the "making shit up" category or being more generous "a bit of fun".
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What do you guys here think...
Apparently it's garbage.
TL;DR:
"Altogether, I’m counting one mistake (lupu), one word I couldn’t verify (uor), an unlikely construction (lack of something for ago), and two vagaries (correct plural form avilar? correct adjective for “Etruscan”?). I’d say this goes to show that we cannot construct any old sentence from an incompletely attested and incompletely understood language."
Full explanation: https://www.quora.com/Is-%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%94%F0%90%8C%84%F0%90%8C%8D%F0%90%8C%80-%F0%90%8C%8B%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%90%F0%90%8C%96-%F0%90%8C%86%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%88%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%8C
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OMG one of the replies has me cracking up
You’ve got letters designed to be written right to left written left to right. That's your first problem.
And it looks like that answer came 4 days before this thread!
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OMG one of the replies has me cracking up
You’ve got letters designed to be written right to left written left to right. That's your first problem.
And it looks like that answer came 4 days before this thread!
.ynnuf repuS .oot eno taht was I
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You posting this crap here has it was ignored on Reddit?
I posted it on a few Internet forums.
On StackExchange, I got a few upvotes, but no answer, or even a comment: https://latin.stackexchange.com/questions/15564/how-would-you-say-the-etruscan-language-died-two-thousand-years-ago-and-nobody
I suppose that is because people are on those forums are interested in mainstream linguistics, and people interested in mainstream linguistics do not tend to have strong opinions about the Etruscan language. But here, I know some people are interested in alternative linguistics, such as @wise. I suppose [mention]wise[/mention] has some ideas about Etruscan.
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(https://www.g20.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/aw-jeez-not-this-shit-again.13769/full)
That's what I think
What is "this shit again"? There was some similar thread on this forum that did not go well? I do not know about that.
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What do you guys here think...
Apparently it's garbage.
TL;DR:
"Altogether, I’m counting one mistake (lupu), one word I couldn’t verify (uor), an unlikely construction (lack of something for ago), and two vagaries (correct plural form avilar? correct adjective for “Etruscan”?). I’d say this goes to show that we cannot construct any old sentence from an incompletely attested and incompletely understood language."
Full explanation: https://www.quora.com/Is-%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%94%F0%90%8C%84%F0%90%8C%8D%F0%90%8C%80-%F0%90%8C%8B%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%90%F0%90%8C%96-%F0%90%8C%86%F0%90%8C%80%F0%90%8C%88%F0%90%8C%93%F0%90%8C%96%F0%90%8C%8C
So, I have studied Etruscan some more and corrected those mistakes.
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OMG one of the replies has me cracking up
You’ve got letters designed to be written right to left written left to right. That's your first problem.
And it looks like that answer came 4 days before this thread!
Yeah, Etruscan letters are flipped in some fonts: https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/m63x4p/chrome_and_firefox_on_android_render_etruscan/gr3t6h2/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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Wise hasn't posted here in months. I think he "Thorked off."
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Wise hasn't posted here in months. I think he "Thorked off."
Perhaps this website got banned in Turkey. And it meets people who use TOR Browser with an endless stream of CAPTCHAs.
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Why do you only speak dead languages?
I also speak English and Croatian, and those are not dead languages at all. I also speak a bit of German, and it is also not at all a dead language. I speak a bit of Latin, which is kind-of dead, but not really. I think more people speak Latin as native speakers than they speak Istriot (some 500 people speak Istriot), and Istriot is not considered dead. So much so that the Istrian Independence Movement cites it as a reason to separate from Croatia.
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Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
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(https://www.g20.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down//media/aw-jeez-not-this-shit-again.13769/full)
That's what I think
What is "this shit again"? There was some similar thread on this forum that did not go well? I do not know about that.
This "shit" being your topics. You asked for my thoughts. That was mine. Do carry on
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Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
Mostly. But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
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Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
It's like Esperanto having "native" speakers -- it's intentional, which I think distinguishes it. Sure, if you grow up speaking a language, it's your native language. But there's a difference between it just being the language of your community and it being an intentional effort to teach it to you. At least I think so, even if the end results are practically identical.
Why do you only speak dead languages?
I also speak English and Croatian, and those are not dead languages at all. I also speak a bit of German, and it is also not at all a dead language. I speak a bit of Latin, which is kind-of dead, but not really. I think more people speak Latin as native speakers than they speak Istriot (some 500 people speak Istriot), and Istriot is not considered dead. So much so that the Istrian Independence Movement cites it as a reason to separate from Croatia.
No, Latin is dead. It's no longer the native language of any community. There may be priests teaching sermons in Latin; there may even be a few people who've been taught Latin from birth. Even if it's still in use, it doesn't matter. Latin still isn't the native language of any community anymore.
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I enjoyed the "New Earth" youtube channel talking about (mostly unmentioned in the mainstream) ancient Italian megaliths hypothesized to be made by the Etruscans.
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I speak a bit of Latin, which is kind-of dead, but not really. I think more people speak Latin as native speakers than they speak Istriot (some 500 people speak Istriot), and Istriot is not considered dead. So much so that the Istrian Independence Movement cites it as a reason to separate from Croatia.
That just shows you don't even know the definition of a dead language. It has nothing to do with how many people speak it.
But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
Native to where? Lantinia? This doesn't even make any sense.
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Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
Mostly. But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
An extinct language is a language that no longer has any speakers,[1] especially if the language has no living descendants.[2] In contrast, a dead language is "one that is no longer the native language of any community", even if it is still in use, like Latin.
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Latin has native speakers? I was under the impression that only priests and scholars kept it going
Mostly. But Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
An extinct language is a language that no longer has any speakers,[1] especially if the language has no living descendants.[2] In contrast, a dead language is "one that is no longer the native language of any community", even if it is still in use, like Latin.
I think there are degrees in how dead a language is. English is a lot more alive than Latin. But Latin is a lot more alive than Old English or Hittite or Sumerian. And Old English and Hittite and Sumerian are a lot more alive than Etruscan is.
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I think there are degrees in how dead a language is.
Perhaps, but does it really matter to anyone other than an academic?
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There are also degrees to how decayed a dead body is, but it's still a dead fucking body.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGU-UpdUAAEhIoB.jpg)
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There are also degrees to how decayed a dead body is, but it's still a dead fucking body.
Ancient languages become less decayed over time, these days. In the 12th century, we didn't know a single word of Etruscan. Now we know quite a few words and a bit of grammar. Similar for Hittite. And even more so for Sumerian, the mere name "Sumerian" was probably forgotten in the 12th century, and now it is a language we know quite a bit about. Whether Latin has been decaying... well, in some sense, yes, in other senses, it is coming back from the dead. Fewer people speak Latin fluently than they did 100 years ago. On the other hand, we know quite a bit more about the early stages of Latin than we did 100 years ago.
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I think there are degrees in how dead a language is.
Perhaps, but does it really matter to anyone other than an academic?
It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
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I think there are degrees in how dead a language is.
Perhaps, but does it really matter to anyone other than an academic?
It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
Anybody? No. I would say that, at best, it matters to people interested in studying and/or preserving dead or extinct languages. That would be a rather small subset of social science.
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It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
It matters to anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, human geographers, linguists, mathematicians, management scientists, media academics, political scientists, psychologists, and historians?
I mean, linguists and maybe human geographers, sure.
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It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
It matters to anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, human geographers, linguists, mathematicians, management scientists, media academics, political scientists, psychologists, and historians?
I mean, linguists and maybe human geographers, sure.
Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
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It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
It matters to anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, human geographers, linguists, mathematicians, management scientists, media academics, political scientists, psychologists, and historians?
I mean, linguists and maybe human geographers, sure.
Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
Congrats I guess. I'm not sure what upvotes gets you. Seems that no one really cares to comment though. Does anyone really care about what you think some dead letters/words mean other than poking an up arrow because you were able to paste an Etruscan glyph font?
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It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
It matters to anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, human geographers, linguists, mathematicians, management scientists, media academics, political scientists, psychologists, and historians?
I mean, linguists and maybe human geographers, sure.
Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
Congrats I guess. I'm not sure what upvotes gets you. Seems that no one really cares to comment though. Does anyone really care about what you think some dead letters/words mean other than poking an up arrow because you were able to paste an Etruscan glyph font?
Well, you are right that I do not know for sure why people there are upvoting my post. However, from the few comments I received, they seem to imply they think I am right.
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Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
You posted something of interest on a niche subreddit and a few people bothered to upvote it, i.e., give you fake internet points after probably just reading the title?
Cool?
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Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
You posted something of interest on a niche subreddit and a few people bothered to upvote it, i.e., give you fake internet points after probably just reading the title?
Cool?
I think that, had they just read the title, they would have probably downvoted my question as a low-effort one, thinking I do not understand how little we know about the Etruscan language.
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It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
It matters to anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, human geographers, linguists, mathematicians, management scientists, media academics, political scientists, psychologists, and historians?
I mean, linguists and maybe human geographers, sure.
Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
Congrats I guess. I'm not sure what upvotes gets you. Seems that no one really cares to comment though. Does anyone really care about what you think some dead letters/words mean other than poking an up arrow because you were able to paste an Etruscan glyph font?
Well, you are right that I do not know for sure why people there are upvoting my post. However, from the few comments I received, they seem to imply they think I am right.
Which comments seem to think you are right? One person wrote "superb" and you didn't even know what that word meant? Strange.
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It matters to anybody interested in social sciences, does not it?
It matters to anthropologists, archaeologists, economists, human geographers, linguists, mathematicians, management scientists, media academics, political scientists, psychologists, and historians?
I mean, linguists and maybe human geographers, sure.
Well, it seems to interest many people, as I got 150 upvotes this night on this Reddit post, more than for any post all the time: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/how_would_you_say_the_etruscan_language_died_two/
Congrats I guess. I'm not sure what upvotes gets you. Seems that no one really cares to comment though. Does anyone really care about what you think some dead letters/words mean other than poking an up arrow because you were able to paste an Etruscan glyph font?
Well, you are right that I do not know for sure why people there are upvoting my post. However, from the few comments I received, they seem to imply they think I am right.
Which comments seem to think you are right? One person wrote "superb" and you didn't even know what that word meant? Strange.
What does that mean? "Commentarius" in Latin means memorandum, right? Should he have issued a memorandum?
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Perhaps even a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) designating a bilateral agreement between the two parties (Author & Memo'er) that his post was, indeed, superbus, i.e., arrogant, and without merit.
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What do you guys think, would "Nac avil pulumχva falatul snuiaφ, aca Rasnal amuce ziv, nanatnam ica cnara." be good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language has been dead for years as numerous as the stars of heaven and nobody knows it."?
I got this on an Internet forum here, and it seems very plausible to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/comment/i751f9w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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What do you guys think, would "Nac avil pulumχva falatul snuiaφ, aca Rasnal amuce ziv, nanatnam ica cnara." be good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language has been dead for years as numerous as the stars of heaven and nobody knows it."?
I got this on an Internet forum here, and it seems very plausible to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/comment/i751f9w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Sounds like Klingonese to me
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What do you guys think, would "Nac avil pulumχva falatul snuiaφ, aca Rasnal amuce ziv, nanatnam ica cnara." be good Etruscan for "The Etruscan language has been dead for years as numerous as the stars of heaven and nobody knows it."?
I got this on an Internet forum here, and it seems very plausible to me: https://www.reddit.com/r/ancientrome/comments/mor62e/comment/i751f9w/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Sounds like Klingonese to me
Well, to me, it seems like almost-certainly-valid Etruscan.
Nac - for (time)
avil - year; it goes in singular, as we can see in the phrase 'nac ci avil', 'for three years', attested on Pyrgi Tablets
pulumχva - stars; irregular plural (not with the suffix -ar-), attested also on Pyrgi Tablets
falatul - of the sky (genitive singular of "falatu")
snuiaφ - as numerous; the phrase 'pulumχva snuiaφ' meaning 'as numerous as stars' is attested on Pyrgi Tablets
aca - voice, (perhaps) language
Rasnal - Etruscan
amuce - has been; the perfect of ama (to be)
ziv - dead
nanatnam - "nana-tnam", "nana" meaning "nobody" and "tnam" being the suffix corresponding to Latin "-que".
ica - this
cnara - to know
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Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
I'm a native speaker.
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Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
I'm a native speaker.
So, how do you like being a native speaker of Latin?
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Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
I'm a native speaker.
So, how do you like being a native speaker of Latin?
id amo
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Josiah Ethan Meadows, for example, is a native speaker.
I'm a native speaker.
So, how do you like being a native speaker of Latin?
id amo
Cur id ames? Nonne quodam tempore vis ut tua lingua nativa aliquae maioris lingua sit? Lingua Anglica, exempli gratia. Ego saepe censeo quia melius esset si mea lingua nativa lingua Anglica aut Sinitica sit, quia paene omnis bona literatura de computoribus (ego studeo scientiam computorum) est aut in lingua Anglica aut in lingua Sinitica.
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tuum retardari
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tuum retardari
What does that mean?
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tuum retardari
If that's supposed to mean "You are retarded.", why do you think I am retarded? And you do realize writing in such bad Latin makes you look retarded, rather than me?