The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Technology, Science & Alt Science => Topic started by: Heiwa on September 16, 2020, 10:18:24 PM

Title: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 16, 2020, 10:18:24 PM
Much easier is to send a spacecraft to orbit Venus at low altitude. It can then study the Venus atmosphere. It could also have a little 'lifeboat' that could descend and pick up cloud samples full of life, etc.
It is very simple. A rocket takes off from Earth with spacecraft/lifeboat with target Venus. After a certain time - 100 days? - in space the spacecraft arrives at Venus, slows down and ... starts to orbit Venus. Very easy according to 'experts'. You just fire a rocket and you start orbiting Venus. I wonder why nobody does it?
(I didn't start this thread - Heiwa)
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: markjo on September 17, 2020, 06:47:09 AM
Much easier is to send a spacecraft to orbit Venus at low altitude. It can then study the Venus atmosphere. It could also have a little 'lifeboat' that could descend and pick up cloud samples full of life, etc.
Orbits within an atmosphere are very difficult to maintain for any significant length of time because of the atmospheric drag.  If you want to obtain atmospheric samples, then you're more likely talking about some sort of aircraft rather than a satellite.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: Heiwa on September 17, 2020, 08:44:00 AM
Much easier is to send a spacecraft to orbit Venus at low altitude. It can then study the Venus atmosphere. It could also have a little 'lifeboat' that could descend and pick up cloud samples full of life, etc.
Orbits within an atmosphere are very difficult to maintain for any significant length of time because of the atmospheric drag.  If you want to obtain atmospheric samples, then you're more likely talking about some sort of aircraft rather than a satellite.

Orbits of course take place in space outside the atmosphere of any planet, incl. Venus. Problem remains how to leave an orbit Earth and start an orbit Venus. Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: Stash on September 17, 2020, 10:16:09 AM
Much easier is to send a spacecraft to orbit Venus at low altitude. It can then study the Venus atmosphere. It could also have a little 'lifeboat' that could descend and pick up cloud samples full of life, etc.
Orbits within an atmosphere are very difficult to maintain for any significant length of time because of the atmospheric drag.  If you want to obtain atmospheric samples, then you're more likely talking about some sort of aircraft rather than a satellite.

Orbits of course take place in space outside the atmosphere of any planet, incl. Venus. Problem remains how to leave an orbit Earth and start an orbit Venus. Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?

Why is it not possible?
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: markjo on September 17, 2020, 01:11:32 PM
Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?
I suggest that you start here: http://www.scifidoc.com/scitalk/2017/2/18/orbital-mechanics-for-dummies
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: Heiwa on September 17, 2020, 07:01:52 PM
Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?
I suggest that you start here: http://www.scifidoc.com/scitalk/2017/2/18/orbital-mechanics-for-dummies
Hm, the link is just about changing the shape of an orbit around Earth. It is easy and has been done many times for satellites of all types. No, problem is to stop orbiting around Earth and start orbiting around another planet or star. There is no way to do it!
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: markjo on September 17, 2020, 07:32:30 PM
Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?
I suggest that you start here: http://www.scifidoc.com/scitalk/2017/2/18/orbital-mechanics-for-dummies
Hm, the link is just about changing the shape of an orbit around Earth. It is easy and has been done many times for satellites of all types.
Interesting. Haven't you repeatedly claimed that changing the shape of an orbit is impossible?

No, problem is to stop orbiting around Earth and start orbiting around another planet or star. There is no way to do it!
No, you don't stop one orbit and start another.  You change the shape of your orbit so that you orbit something else.  It's roughly equivalent to taking the off ramp from one highway to get onto another highway.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: Heiwa on September 18, 2020, 01:47:56 AM
Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?
I suggest that you start here: http://www.scifidoc.com/scitalk/2017/2/18/orbital-mechanics-for-dummies
Hm, the link is just about changing the shape of an orbit around Earth. It is easy and has been done many times for satellites of all types.
Interesting. Haven't you repeatedly claimed that changing the shape of an orbit is impossible?

No, problem is to stop orbiting around Earth and start orbiting around another planet or star. There is no way to do it!
No, you don't stop one orbit and start another.  You change the shape of your orbit so that you orbit something else.  It's roughly equivalent to taking the off ramp from one highway to get onto another highway.
No, changing shape of an orbit (around Earth) is easy. Arrianespace company does it all the time. But no objects sent into orbits around Earth cannot ever change trajectory and start orbiting something else, e.g. the Sun, the Moon or other planets. Just check with the NASA astronautics experts.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: sokarul on September 18, 2020, 05:52:23 AM
A rocket orbiting the earth is also orbiting the sun.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: markjo on September 18, 2020, 06:36:46 AM
No, changing shape of an orbit (around Earth) is easy. Arrianespace company does it all the time. But no objects sent into orbits around Earth cannot ever change trajectory and start orbiting something else, e.g. the Sun, the Moon or other planets. Just check with the NASA astronautics experts.
This is a discussion better suited to your million euro "challenge" thread.  Please stop derailing this one.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: Heiwa on September 18, 2020, 08:08:19 AM
A rocket orbiting the earth is also orbiting the sun.
No - a rocket orbiting the Earth is not orbiting the Sun. It is the Earth that orbits the Sun at a certain distance (1 AU). Planet Venus also orbits the Sun but at another, smaller distance so Venus and Earth will never meet. But you can see Venus from Earth by looking out of the window at the right location, time and direction. I do it every night! But to send a rocket to Venus is not really possible, as the rocket always orbits Earth and nothing else, when doing it. When in Earth orbit that passes close to Venus, you have to be careful to avoid a collision. You have to understand that you have no possibility to stop in orbit or anywhere in space. Space travel is very simple. Departing/lifting off from Earth you always orbit Earth. Nothing else. An orbit is the gravitationally, curved trajectory of any object, such as the trajectory of a rocket around a planet. When in orbit, you cannot leave it and start orbiting something else.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: Shifter on September 18, 2020, 08:10:09 AM
Lock this threads mods. Heiwa is shitting it up and I dont need to see him in my 'new replies' every day
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: boydster on September 18, 2020, 08:41:22 AM
I have a better plan. Now he's got one thread to spam with his misunderstanding of orbital mechanics.
Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: sokarul on September 18, 2020, 08:49:32 AM
A rocket orbiting the earth is also orbiting the sun.
No - a rocket orbiting the Earth is not orbiting the Sun. It is the Earth that orbits the Sun at a certain distance (1 AU). Planet Venus also orbits the Sun but at another, smaller distance so Venus and Earth will never meet. But you can see Venus from Earth by looking out of the window at the right location, time and direction. I do it every night! But to send a rocket to Venus is not really possible, as the rocket always orbits Earth and nothing else, when doing it. When in Earth orbit that passes close to Venus, you have to be careful to avoid a collision. You have to understand that you have no possibility to stop in orbit or anywhere in space. Space travel is very simple. Departing/lifting off from Earth you always orbit Earth. Nothing else. An orbit is the gravitationally, curved trajectory of any object, such as the trajectory of a rocket around a planet. When in orbit, you cannot leave it and start orbiting something else.
Earth orbits the sun.
Rocket orbits earth.
Rocket dont orbit the sun?

Wat?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 18, 2020, 09:22:42 AM
Yeah.

If the Earth Orbits the sun, by default anything that is on or orbits Earth also orbits the sun.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 18, 2020, 10:45:39 AM
But how can a spacecraft orbiting Earth also orbit the Sun? Gravity does not allow it. I suggest you go back and study the basics.
Please note I didn't start this thread.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: boydster on September 18, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
Please note I didn't start this thread.
Oh, but you did, when you decided to drag an entirely different thread off topic.

As far as orbits go, maybe you could explain for everyone here exactly why gravity doesn't allow something orbiting the Earth to also orbit the sun.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on September 18, 2020, 11:59:25 AM
But how can a spacecraft orbiting Earth also orbit the Sun? Gravity does not allow it. I suggest you go back and study the basics.
Please note I didn't start this thread.
You are orbiting the sun right now.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Shifter on September 18, 2020, 12:07:08 PM
But how can a spacecraft orbiting Earth also orbit the Sun? Gravity does not allow it. I suggest you go back and study the basics.
Please note I didn't start this thread.
You are orbiting the sun right now.

And the galactic core. Pwoah! What a ride!!  8)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 18, 2020, 12:41:59 PM
WOW, my head is spinning.
Is that like orbiting?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 18, 2020, 01:15:47 PM
WOW, my head is spinning.
Is that like orbiting?
It is for the little birds flying in circles around your head.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: JJA on September 18, 2020, 02:43:38 PM
But how can a spacecraft orbiting Earth also orbit the Sun? Gravity does not allow it. I suggest you go back and study the basics.
Please note I didn't start this thread.

How do wheels spin AND move along the road at the same time?

Nobody knows.

What are birds?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 18, 2020, 02:55:32 PM

What are birds?

The reason to own a shotgun. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 18, 2020, 04:12:43 PM
What are birds?

(https://i.imgur.com/hhtAUYD.png)
https://birdsarentreal.com/
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 18, 2020, 04:33:20 PM
they still suck . . .

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on September 18, 2020, 05:09:53 PM
Wrong

Title: Re: Re: Life in the Venusian clouds?
Post by: frenat on September 20, 2020, 03:05:51 PM
Any ideas? I think it is not possible, i.e. you cannot leave one orbit say around Earth and start orbiting something else, say Venus. Isn't basic astronautics?
I suggest that you start here: http://www.scifidoc.com/scitalk/2017/2/18/orbital-mechanics-for-dummies
Hm, the link is just about changing the shape of an orbit around Earth. It is easy and has been done many times for satellites of all types.
Interesting. Haven't you repeatedly claimed that changing the shape of an orbit is impossible?

No, problem is to stop orbiting around Earth and start orbiting around another planet or star. There is no way to do it!
No, you don't stop one orbit and start another.  You change the shape of your orbit so that you orbit something else.  It's roughly equivalent to taking the off ramp from one highway to get onto another highway.
No, changing shape of an orbit (around Earth) is easy. Arrianespace company does it all the time. But no objects sent into orbits around Earth cannot ever change trajectory and start orbiting something else, e.g. the Sun, the Moon or other planets. Just check with the NASA astronautics experts.
Yes, ask astronautics experts. Obviously you haven't.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Shifter on September 20, 2020, 03:22:18 PM
If you move fast enough, you can go wherever you want. Escaping Earth orbit only requires 11.2km/s

Getting to the sun requires cancelling out Earth's approx 30km/s speed around the sun first though. Not impossible



Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 20, 2020, 08:25:21 PM
If you move fast enough, you can go wherever you want. Escaping Earth orbit only requires 11.2km/s

Getting to the sun requires cancelling out Earth's approx 30km/s speed around the sun first though. Not impossible
If you leave Earth at only 11.2 km/s speed vertically in any direction, your speed will be reduced to <1 km/s speed after a couple of days and soon be 0 and you'll drop back and crash on Earth. It is due to gravity. And you will never start orbiting, e.g. the Sun far away. To orbit Earth at various altitudes you have to depart more horizontally, etc, and you can orbit there for ever ... but never start orbiting anything else.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 20, 2020, 09:48:59 PM
To orbit Earth at various altitudes you have to depart more horizontally, etc, and you can orbit there for ever ... but never start orbiting anything else.

Why not?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 01:19:24 AM
To orbit Earth at various altitudes you have to depart more horizontally, etc, and you can orbit there for ever ... but never start orbiting anything else.

Why not?
Easy! Gravity! Anything ejected from Earth can only orbit (topic) Earth due to gravity. Say that you eject something straight, vertically up, away from Earth. That orbit will be a straight line, variable velocity trajectory up and down ending in a crash. Say that a 200 000 m altitude your vertical velocity is 11.2 km/s (after a certain time) and that the rocket engine is shut off. Immediately gravity slows you down and a few days later your vertical velocity is 0 and you drop back. When you on the return pass 200 000 m altitude above Earth your speed is -11.2 km/s and a few seconds later you crash on Earth. No way to brake in orbit

If you eject in another direction than vertical, you will orbit Earth in a circle or ellipse. Round and round. For ever. Quite boring!

Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude, so that spacecrafts can escape into the Universe having a certain velocity ... but gravity doesn't work like that. Gravity always attracts masses regardless of distance between them. No escape! No trips to the Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in our Solar system or the Universe. Of course there are religious, secret sects preaching the opposite ....


Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 21, 2020, 02:45:41 AM
... but gravity doesn't work like that. Gravity always attracts masses regardless of distance between them. No escape! No trips to the Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in our Solar system or the Universe. Of course there are religious, secret sects preaching the opposite ....

Gravity doesn't work like that? Do explain. Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance? How so and how does that work? Reference?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 03:05:37 AM
... but gravity doesn't work like that. Gravity always attracts masses regardless of distance between them. No escape! No trips to the Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in our Solar system or the Universe. Of course there are religious, secret sects preaching the opposite ....

Gravity doesn't work like that? Do explain. Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance? How so and how does that work? Reference?

Please. Gravity is a force (unit Newton, N) that attracts masses (unit kilogram, kg). The is a variable function of the distance (unit meters) between the masses. Gravity force will accelerate (unit m/s≤) the mass it attracts. Any object ejected from Earth will orbit Earth due to gravity. If the ejection is vertically up, the object will later drop down on Earth due to gravity. If not, i.e. not vertical, it will dynamically orbit Earth, i.e. fly around Earth, where gravity and dynamic forces are balanced. It is basic.
Of course plenty religious sects preach other things. Are you a member of such a sect?

IMO all religious sects should be allowed but when it comes to science they should be kept apart.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 21, 2020, 04:20:25 AM
... but gravity doesn't work like that. Gravity always attracts masses regardless of distance between them. No escape! No trips to the Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in our Solar system or the Universe. Of course there are religious, secret sects preaching the opposite ....

Gravity doesn't work like that? Do explain. Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance? How so and how does that work? Reference?

Please. Gravity is a force (unit Newton, N) that attracts masses (unit kilogram, kg). The is a variable function of the distance (unit meters) between the masses. Gravity force will accelerate (unit m/s≤) the mass it attracts. Any object ejected from Earth will orbit Earth due to gravity. If the ejection is vertically up, the object will later drop down on Earth due to gravity. If not, i.e. not vertical, it will dynamically orbit Earth, i.e. fly around Earth, where gravity and dynamic forces are balanced. It is basic.
Of course plenty religious sects preach other things. Are you a member of such a sect?

IMO all religious sects should be allowed but when it comes to science they should be kept apart.

You're not answering the question: Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 21, 2020, 04:23:44 AM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 04:28:21 AM
... but gravity doesn't work like that. Gravity always attracts masses regardless of distance between them. No escape! No trips to the Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in our Solar system or the Universe. Of course there are religious, secret sects preaching the opposite ....

Gravity doesn't work like that? Do explain. Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance? How so and how does that work? Reference?

Please. Gravity is a force (unit Newton, N) that attracts masses (unit kilogram, kg). The is a variable function of the distance (unit meters) between the masses. Gravity force will accelerate (unit m/s≤) the mass it attracts. Any object ejected from Earth will orbit Earth due to gravity. If the ejection is vertically up, the object will later drop down on Earth due to gravity. If not, i.e. not vertical, it will dynamically orbit Earth, i.e. fly around Earth, where gravity and dynamic forces are balanced. It is basic.
Of course plenty religious sects preach other things. Are you a member of such a sect?

IMO all religious sects should be allowed but when it comes to science they should be kept apart.

You're not answering the question: Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance?
?? No, gravity force is always between any masses anywhere. It's amount is only a function of the distance between the masses.
It is nothing religious about it. Gravity is a fact. Gravity has always existed. Gravity has not been created out of nothing. I explain a little at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelb.htm
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 04:32:01 AM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
?? Just prove your point and that I am wrong. Don't ask stupid questions about me lying. You sound like a religious sect fanatic that cannot accept reality. What sect is yours?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 21, 2020, 04:38:51 AM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
?? Just prove your point and that I am wrong. Don't ask stupid questions about me lying. You sound like a religious sect fanatic that cannot accept reality. What sect is yours?
Your evasion helps to prove my point. YOU made the claim that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,". YOU need to prove your assertion. And I bet you can't. I just want to see the evidence that you based your opinion on.

And I didn't ask a question. I made a clear statement that you couldn't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'expert'" that thinks what you said they think. Your first clue should have been that there were no question marks in my post.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 08:16:26 AM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
?? Just prove your point and that I am wrong. Don't ask stupid questions about me lying. You sound like a religious sect fanatic that cannot accept reality. What sect is yours?
Your evasion helps to prove my point. YOU made the claim that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,". YOU need to prove your assertion. And I bet you can't. I just want to see the evidence that you based your opinion on.

And I didn't ask a question. I made a clear statement that you couldn't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'expert'" that thinks what you said they think. Your first clue should have been that there were no question marks in my post.
Why do you get so upset? I am not lying. According US universities (like Harvard/MIT/Yale) space travel is easy. Just speed up to Earth 'escape velocity' 11.2 km/s and you can go anywhere in the Universe from Earth.
But it is complete nonsense. You cannot go anywhere from Earth in space. Gravity will always stop you as I have explained above. There is no way to return safely.
http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm is about a Swedish Royal Institute offering education about space travel. Fuglesang!  But he is just a lying actor/clown. Call him at  +468 790 64 65 !
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 21, 2020, 08:30:20 AM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
?? Just prove your point and that I am wrong. Don't ask stupid questions about me lying. You sound like a religious sect fanatic that cannot accept reality. What sect is yours?
Your evasion helps to prove my point. YOU made the claim that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,". YOU need to prove your assertion. And I bet you can't. I just want to see the evidence that you based your opinion on.

And I didn't ask a question. I made a clear statement that you couldn't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'expert'" that thinks what you said they think. Your first clue should have been that there were no question marks in my post.
Why do you get so upset? I am not lying. According US universities (like Harvard/MIT/Yale) space travel is easy. Just speed up to Earth 'escape velocity' 11.2 km/s and you can go anywhere in the Universe from Earth.
But it is complete nonsense. You cannot go anywhere from Earth in space. Gravity will always stop you as I have explained above. There is no way to return safely.
http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm is about a Swedish Royal Institute offering education about space travel. Fuglesang!  But he is just a lying actor/clown. Call him at  +468 790 64 65 !
I'm not upset at all. I'm laughing at you. You obviously don't understand what is meant by escape velocity nor really much about how orbits work.  And you still can't back up your LIE that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 09:54:53 AM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
?? Just prove your point and that I am wrong. Don't ask stupid questions about me lying. You sound like a religious sect fanatic that cannot accept reality. What sect is yours?
Your evasion helps to prove my point. YOU made the claim that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,". YOU need to prove your assertion. And I bet you can't. I just want to see the evidence that you based your opinion on.

And I didn't ask a question. I made a clear statement that you couldn't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'expert'" that thinks what you said they think. Your first clue should have been that there were no question marks in my post.
Why do you get so upset? I am not lying. According US universities (like Harvard/MIT/Yale) space travel is easy. Just speed up to Earth 'escape velocity' 11.2 km/s and you can go anywhere in the Universe from Earth.
But it is complete nonsense. You cannot go anywhere from Earth in space. Gravity will always stop you as I have explained above. There is no way to return safely.
http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm is about a Swedish Royal Institute offering education about space travel. Fuglesang!  But he is just a lying actor/clown. Call him at  +468 790 64 65 !
I'm not upset at all. I'm laughing at you. You obviously don't understand what is meant by escape velocity nor really much about how orbits work.  And you still can't back up your LIE that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
After laughing you are invited to explain to me a simple space trip to the Moon. What is the trajectory? An orbit? Or just straight from Earth to Moon? Duration? 4 days! Why not?  Does the speed vary during the trip?
I know the matter is already discussed in the I won  Heiwa's Ä1M Challenge thread on top of this page since many years with plenty losers and me laughing. There you suggest again that I LIE!
Can't you do better than that? Why would I lie about anyting?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 21, 2020, 10:40:54 AM
Drooling on yourself is not laughing.


Traversing between the earth and mars isn't as difficult as you think.

Simple example:

2 tankers are "circling" the island of Crete. The 1st tanker keeps an average distance of 1.4km from shore with a speed of 10knots.  The 2nd tanker keeps an average distance of 2.2km from shore with a speed of 6knots.  The tankers are currently on opposite sides of the island and cannot deviate from their course.  You are in a small boat that must travel from the first tanker to the second tanker without either tanker stopping. Determine when you will depart and your speed in order to arrive at the 2nd tanker using the least amount of fuel possible.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 21, 2020, 01:36:57 PM
... but gravity doesn't work like that. Gravity always attracts masses regardless of distance between them. No escape! No trips to the Moon, Mars, Venus or anywhere in our Solar system or the Universe. Of course there are religious, secret sects preaching the opposite ....

Gravity doesn't work like that? Do explain. Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance? How so and how does that work? Reference?

Please. Gravity is a force (unit Newton, N) that attracts masses (unit kilogram, kg). The is a variable function of the distance (unit meters) between the masses. Gravity force will accelerate (unit m/s≤) the mass it attracts. Any object ejected from Earth will orbit Earth due to gravity. If the ejection is vertically up, the object will later drop down on Earth due to gravity. If not, i.e. not vertical, it will dynamically orbit Earth, i.e. fly around Earth, where gravity and dynamic forces are balanced. It is basic.
Of course plenty religious sects preach other things. Are you a member of such a sect?

IMO all religious sects should be allowed but when it comes to science they should be kept apart.

You're not answering the question: Gravity has the same attractive strength regardless of distance?
?? No, gravity force is always between any masses anywhere. It's amount is only a function of the distance between the masses.
It is nothing religious about it. Gravity is a fact. Gravity has always existed. Gravity has not been created out of nothing. I explain a little at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelb.htm

Earth's gravitational pull is stronger the closer you are to Earth. Logically, it's harder to get into orbit than it is to go beyond orbit because the gravitational pull lessens with distance. So why would it be harder to escape Earth's gravitational pull once in orbit?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 21, 2020, 03:52:39 PM
Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,

No they don't think that. Why do you lie?

I bet you can't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts'" that think " that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
?? Just prove your point and that I am wrong. Don't ask stupid questions about me lying. You sound like a religious sect fanatic that cannot accept reality. What sect is yours?
Your evasion helps to prove my point. YOU made the claim that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude,". YOU need to prove your assertion. And I bet you can't. I just want to see the evidence that you based your opinion on.

And I didn't ask a question. I made a clear statement that you couldn't produce one "Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'expert'" that thinks what you said they think. Your first clue should have been that there were no question marks in my post.
Why do you get so upset? I am not lying. According US universities (like Harvard/MIT/Yale) space travel is easy. Just speed up to Earth 'escape velocity' 11.2 km/s and you can go anywhere in the Universe from Earth.
But it is complete nonsense. You cannot go anywhere from Earth in space. Gravity will always stop you as I have explained above. There is no way to return safely.
http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm is about a Swedish Royal Institute offering education about space travel. Fuglesang!  But he is just a lying actor/clown. Call him at  +468 790 64 65 !
I'm not upset at all. I'm laughing at you. You obviously don't understand what is meant by escape velocity nor really much about how orbits work.  And you still can't back up your LIE that "Plenty Harvard/Yale, bla, bla, university educated, astrodynamic 'experts' think (LOL) that Earth gravity force stops at a certain altitude".
After laughing you are invited to explain to me a simple space trip to the Moon. What is the trajectory? An orbit? Or just straight from Earth to Moon? Duration? 4 days! Why not?  Does the speed vary during the trip?
I know the matter is already discussed in the I won  Heiwa's Ä1M Challenge thread on top of this page since many years with plenty losers and me laughing. There you suggest again that I LIE!
Can't you do better than that? Why would I lie about anyting?
All those words and you still don't even try to back up your lie. Just further evidence that you know you can't back it up.

As for your fraud of a "challenge", it has been explained to you many times and all you've done is shown you don't understand the subject much to the amusement of others. It is clear you aren't qualified to judge your own "challenge" which is a good thing for you because nobody believes it is real anyway. A real challenge would have a qualified judge and proven award.  You have neither.

Why would you lie? Only you know for sure but you've been caught in many lies over the years. I suspect it is to make yourself feel more important.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 21, 2020, 04:41:31 PM
After laughing you are invited to explain to me a simple space trip to the Moon. What is the trajectory? An orbit? Or just straight from Earth to Moon? Duration? 4 days! Why not?  Does the speed vary during the trip?

If you would bother to learn the basics of orbital dynamics, you should be able to answer all of those questions yourself.  This should help:


And if you want to go to Mars, here's how:


By the way, you owe him a million Euros.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 21, 2020, 06:46:52 PM
After laughing you are invited to explain to me a simple space trip to the Moon. What is the trajectory? An orbit? Or just straight from Earth to Moon? Duration? 4 days! Why not?  Does the speed vary during the trip?

If you would bother to learn the basics of orbital dynamics, you should be able to answer all of those questions yourself.  This should help:


And if you want to go to Mars, here's how:


By the way, you owe him a million Euros.
No, spacecrafts getting into orbits around Earth is always doing a variable speed, one-way trip either in circular LEO or off to the Moon or Mars in elliptical orbits. There is no way to stop anywhere in orbit or get off and land safely on Earth (or the Moon and Mars).
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.
So all alleged space trips with humans aboard are fake/Fake News just for entertainment since 1961. No humans have ever been in space. It started as Soviet communist propaganda 1961, which USA just copied using Hollywood props. That's why nobody has won my Ä1M Challenge.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 21, 2020, 06:59:35 PM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 22, 2020, 01:53:40 AM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth. To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 22, 2020, 09:17:37 AM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth.
Not if you're smart about your rocket design.

To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
You keep saying that, yet satellites need to change their orbits from LEO to geostationary which usually requires several delta-v inputs.

So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.
If they were falsifying their calculations, then we wouldn't have thousands of satellites in orbit right now, wouldt we?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 22, 2020, 10:32:57 AM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth.
Not if you're smart about your rocket design.

To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
You keep saying that, yet satellites need to change their orbits from LEO to geostationary which usually requires several delta-v inputs.

So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.
If they were falsifying their calculations, then we wouldn't have thousands of satellites in orbit right now, wouldt we?

Any satellite is only put into orbit by an external rocket at a certain velocity, direction and altitude. Company Arianespace does it regularly. The satellite can then only change its altitude by a built in rocket e.g. from LEO to GEO and when doing so, its velocity is reduced. Changing altitude requires fuel and it must be carried aboard from lift-off. The satellite cannot start orbiting something else than Earth or stop and land anywhere.
Arianespace has thus put a satellite in a certain orbit around Earth on behalf of the European Space Agency, ESA. Then Arianespace hands over the controls of the satellite to ESA that sends it off to, e.g. an asteroid far away but how it is done ESA cannot say. If you ask ESA = no reply! Reason? The whole thing - the Rosetta mission - is faked. It becomes a show made on Earth.
Same going to the Moon US/NASA style. First you orbit Earth in LEO and then you increase the altitude of that orbit to arrive at the Moon. It is OK. But then? You cannot get out of the orbit around Earth and land on the Moon, bla, bla, bla. One reason is the fuel.
It is why nobody wins my my human space travel Challenge. 
Space travel in orbits is always only one way.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 22, 2020, 12:22:40 PM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth. To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.

What are the calculations that show that the expert's calculations are wrong?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 22, 2020, 03:36:54 PM
It is why nobody wins my my human space travel Challenge. 
Space travel in orbits is always only one way.
Nobody wins your so called "challenge" because you aren't willing to change your mind about space travel no matter what anyone says.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 22, 2020, 07:02:49 PM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth. To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.

What are the calculations that show that the expert's calculations are wrong?
Take the NASA Apollo project going to the Moon as an example. It is suggested that the spacecraft was put in LEO using a very big rocket no longer available. In LEO the spacecraft fired its rocket engine somewhere at a certain time to modify the orbit to arrive close to the Moon. There are no details of location and time for this event, force applied, direction, duration and fuel used, etc. It is suggested all was automatic by some computer but details are not available, so it is difficult to check any calculations. My finding is that the experts just faked it. And look at the asstronuts involved. They could just fly an old jet plane using a stick napalm bombing Korean peasants early 1950's speed say 0.2 km/s.
Anyway, the experts suggest that by increasing velocity in LEO from around 7 to >11 km/s, you will arrive at the Moon after a couple of day at <1 km/s speed, i.e. gravity slows you down all the time during the trip. If you only increase speed to around 10 km/s you will not arrive anywhere anytime. Calculating a trajectory in space, where gravity slows you down all the time, is very difficult. I think it cannot be done. But it was a great Hollywood show!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 22, 2020, 09:36:30 PM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth. To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.

What are the calculations that show that the expert's calculations are wrong?
Take the NASA Apollo project going to the Moon as an example. It is suggested that the spacecraft was put in LEO using a very big rocket no longer available. In LEO the spacecraft fired its rocket engine somewhere at a certain time to modify the orbit to arrive close to the Moon. There are no details of location and time for this event, force applied, direction, duration and fuel used, etc. It is suggested all was automatic by some computer but details are not available, so it is difficult to check any calculations. My finding is that the experts just faked it. And look at the asstronuts involved. They could just fly an old jet plane using a stick napalm bombing Korean peasants early 1950's speed say 0.2 km/s.
Anyway, the experts suggest that by increasing velocity in LEO from around 7 to >11 km/s, you will arrive at the Moon after a couple of day at <1 km/s speed, i.e. gravity slows you down all the time during the trip. If you only increase speed to around 10 km/s you will not arrive anywhere anytime. Calculating a trajectory in space, where gravity slows you down all the time, is very difficult. I think it cannot be done. But it was a great Hollywood show!

Took me all of 5 minutes to find the info you say doesnít exist. And this not at all an exhaustive micro detailed account.

For the 1967 Apollo mission to the moon, Saturn V rocketís first stage carried 203,400 gallons of kerosene fuel and 318,000 gallons of liquid oxygen needed for, totaling over 500,000 gallons of fuel for getting out of the atmosphere alone. The second stage carried another 260,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen and 80,000 gallons of liquid oxygen. The third stage carries 66,700 gallons of liquid hydrogen and 19,359 gallons of liquid oxygen. All told, the rocket that achieved one small step for a man and one giant leap for mankind held just under 950,000 gallons of fuel.

02:44:16: One Loop Around Earth, Then Moon-Bound

After firing and jettisoning two of the Saturn Vís three engines, the spacecraft entered Earthís orbit at nearly 120 miles above the surface. After one swing around the planet, the third-stage J-2 rocket ignited, hurling the Apollo astronauts out of near-Earth orbit and on a trajectory toward the moon.

How do you know the calculations are wrong if you have never done the calculations? That amounts to you just saying they are wrong based upon nothing.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 22, 2020, 11:32:26 PM
One reason is of course that you cannot carry the fuel with you to modify the orbit of the spacecraft  during the trip.

Why? What's stopping you from carrying fuel?

You get too heavy to start/lift off from Earth. To later change velocity (delta-v) of any spacecraft in high speed orbit requires plenty energy/fuel that cannot be carried.
So all experts of astro-dynamics just falsify their calculations, etc. It has gone of from the beginning in the 1950's. As soon as any spacecraft is in high speed orbit, it cannot ever leave it. No fuel aboard for any manoeuvers.

What are the calculations that show that the expert's calculations are wrong?
Take the NASA Apollo project going to the Moon as an example. It is suggested that the spacecraft was put in LEO using a very big rocket no longer available. In LEO the spacecraft fired its rocket engine somewhere at a certain time to modify the orbit to arrive close to the Moon. There are no details of location and time for this event, force applied, direction, duration and fuel used, etc. It is suggested all was automatic by some computer but details are not available, so it is difficult to check any calculations. My finding is that the experts just faked it. And look at the asstronuts involved. They could just fly an old jet plane using a stick napalm bombing Korean peasants early 1950's speed say 0.2 km/s.
Anyway, the experts suggest that by increasing velocity in LEO from around 7 to >11 km/s, you will arrive at the Moon after a couple of day at <1 km/s speed, i.e. gravity slows you down all the time during the trip. If you only increase speed to around 10 km/s you will not arrive anywhere anytime. Calculating a trajectory in space, where gravity slows you down all the time, is very difficult. I think it cannot be done. But it was a great Hollywood show!

Took me all of 5 minutes to find the info you say doesnít exist. And this not at all an exhaustive micro detailed account.

For the 1967 Apollo mission to the moon, Saturn V rocketís first stage carried 203,400 gallons of kerosene fuel and 318,000 gallons of liquid oxygen needed for, totaling over 500,000 gallons of fuel for getting out of the atmosphere alone. The second stage carried another 260,000 gallons of liquid hydrogen and 80,000 gallons of liquid oxygen. The third stage carries 66,700 gallons of liquid hydrogen and 19,359 gallons of liquid oxygen. All told, the rocket that achieved one small step for a man and one giant leap for mankind held just under 950,000 gallons of fuel.

02:44:16: One Loop Around Earth, Then Moon-Bound

After firing and jettisoning two of the Saturn Vís three engines, the spacecraft entered Earthís orbit at nearly 120 miles above the surface. After one swing around the planet, the third-stage J-2 rocket ignited, hurling the Apollo astronauts out of near-Earth orbit and on a trajectory toward the moon.

How do you know the calculations are wrong if you have never done the calculations? That amounts to you just saying they are wrong based upon nothing.
Thanks, I quote the same info at my website since many years. Of course the Apollo astronuts and their spacecraft were not hurled out of near-Earth orbit but stayed in Earth orbit all the way to the Moon. Only the shape of the orbit was changed by firing a rocket and increasing speed in orbit from say 7 to >11.2 km/s using plenty fuel. A few days later close to the Moon the speed was reduced to <1 km/s. Guess why? Correct - gravity.
Another way to go to the Moon without changing speed is only to vertically increase the altitude of the orbit. It will take much longer but much less fuel is used.
Regardless. On arrival - still in Earth orbit - there is no way to stop and land anywhere on the Moon.
It seems you have no idea about basic space travel.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 23, 2020, 10:44:26 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 23, 2020, 10:38:19 PM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 24, 2020, 12:06:26 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, I’ll give you a million quid if you can prove it’s impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

The topic is your continued insistence that it’s impossible to change a spacecraft’s orbit to put it on a trajectory to another body in the solar system.  As you were so keen to point out earlier, a mod gave it the title so don’t hide behind semantics.

The page on your daft website is just whining that people who teach basic introductory courses don’t answer your phone calls.

Is that the extent of your “research“?  Haha!

You want claim space flight to the moon or other planets is impossible, then prove it.  All the information you need is in the public domain.

Shouldn’t you at least attempt it to try to salvage some integrity?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 24, 2020, 04:26:33 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

The topic is your continued insistence that itís impossible to change a spacecraftís orbit to put it on a trajectory to another body in the solar system.  As you were so keen to point out earlier, a mod gave it the title so donít hide behind semantics.

The page on your daft website is just whining that people who teach basic introductory courses donít answer your phone calls.

Is that the extent of your ďresearchď?  Haha!

You want claim space flight to the moon or other planets is impossible, then prove it.  All the information you need is in the public domain.

Shouldnít you at least attempt it to try to salvage some integrity?

Hm, why should I prove that something is impossible? Shouldn't our 'space travel' experts better describe how to do a trip to the Moon, etc?
Present situation is that we see a rocket with spacecraft lift off from Earth. Then we are told the spacecraft is in circular orbit (around Earth) and that the spacecraft increases speed using its rocket engine to go to the Moon in an elliptic orbit, where it arrives a couple of days later. During the trip in orbit the speed is reduced from 11.2 to <1.0 km/s due to Earth gravity pulling it back. If the trip had continued until the speed was 0, the spacecraft would drop back on Earth again.

But no! Close to the Moon the spacecraft using its rocket engine changes speed and direction and starts suddenly to orbit the Moon! How was it possible? No explanation given. And then the spacecraft stops orbiting the moon lands on the Moon! Fantastic! But how? You orbit a Moon, slow down and land on the Moon! But it is not possible.

And then - on the Moon - you lift off again and start orbiting the Moon. And in Moon orbit you fire your rocket engine again, increase speed, change direction, leave moon orbit and drop straight down on Earth - no orbit!

During the return drop down on Earth your speed increases from 1 to 11.2 km/s due to gravity, when you enter the Earth's atmosphere and you release a parachute and drop into an ocean at 0 speed. Fantastic! But how can you do all these things at the right times and locations in the right directions in space? No 'expert' can answer it. They just say it was done. Evidence? None.

It was a great show! All done in Hollywood!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: JJA on September 24, 2020, 04:33:11 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"

Watching you constantly dodge this question is almost as amusing as it would be to see you actually try and do the math.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Shifter on September 24, 2020, 04:49:20 AM
You guys need to ask yourselves the following before you post anything

Has Heiwa ever demonstrated the capacity to listen?

Has Heiwa ever demonstrated the capacity to understand?

If your answer to any of these is 'no' then why do you bother? Do you think he reads this and learns anything?

Heiwa believes if a planet killing asteroid smashes on top of your house that rather than flatten your house it will bounce off it. OK. Remember this is the logic of the man you are trying to reason with here

Carry on
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2020, 07:08:26 AM
Hm, why should I prove that something is impossible? Shouldn't our 'space travel' experts better describe how to do a trip to the Moon, etc?
They say that the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.  How better to prove that trips to the moon are possible than to actually send probes and people to the moon?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 24, 2020, 07:14:14 AM

Hm, why should I prove that something is impossible?

Because unless youíre prepared to  put some god damn effort in you are no position to state whatís possible and what isnít.

You are making wild accusations about it all being lies based on your feels.  Itís quite pathetic.

Quote
Shouldn't our 'space travel' experts better describe how to do a trip to the Moon, etc?

Thereís absolutely vast amounts of information publicly available that describes how it works in excruciating detail.  Hereís a good place to start looking at how it was done once before:

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/main.html

But just like every other moon landing conspiracy theorist out there, itís clearly too much like hard work to actually read it, let alone find try to find something actually wrong with any of it.


Quote
Present situation is that we see a rocket with spacecraft lift off from Earth. Then we are told the spacecraft is in circular orbit (around Earth) and that the spacecraft increases speed using its rocket engine to go to the Moon in an elliptic orbit, where it arrives a couple of days later. During the trip in orbit the speed is reduced from 11.2 to <1.0 km/s due to Earth gravity pulling it back. If the trip had continued until the speed was 0, the spacecraft would drop back on Earth again.

But no! Close to the Moon the spacecraft using its rocket engine changes speed and direction and starts suddenly to orbit the Moon! How was it possible? No explanation given. And then the spacecraft stops orbiting the moon lands on the Moon! Fantastic! But how? You orbit a Moon, slow down and land on the Moon! But it is not possible.

And then - on the Moon - you lift off again and start orbiting the Moon. And in Moon orbit you fire your rocket engine again, increase speed, change direction, leave moon orbit and drop straight down on Earth - no orbit!

During the return drop down on Earth your speed increases from 1 to 11.2 km/s due to gravity, when you enter the Earth's atmosphere and you release a parachute and drop into an ocean at 0 speed. Fantastic! But how can you do all these things at the right times and locations in the right directions in space? No 'expert' can answer it. They just say it was done. Evidence? None.

It was a great show! All done in Hollywood!

Just more of the same rubbish argument from incredulity.

Prove it was faked, prove it isnít possible or shut up about it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 24, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.

And btw, aren't you continually breaking Rule 3 here by constantly directing back to your pointless website:

3. Advertisements
Do not create threads/posts, send private messages, or use your profile to advertise products, services, etc.


Especially every time you mention safety at sea, advertising your competition and company and such.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2020, 12:30:37 PM
If only someone would write a textbook on the subject.
http://www.nssc.ac.cn/wxzygx/weixin/201607/P020160718380095698873.pdf
Quote
Orbital Mechanics for
Engineering Students

Howard D. Curtis
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
Daytona Beach, Florida
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 24, 2020, 06:12:13 PM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 24, 2020, 06:50:49 PM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 24, 2020, 07:22:49 PM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 24, 2020, 08:08:28 PM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 24, 2020, 10:58:41 PM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 25, 2020, 01:03:55 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.

There's plenty of info. A 30 second search yielded this about Apollo 10:

"After launch at 16:49:00 UT on 18 May 1969, the spacecraft was inserted into a 189.9 km x 184.4 km Earth parking orbit at 17:00:54 UT, followed by translunar injection after 1 1/2 orbits at 19:28:21 UT. The CSM separated from the Saturn V 3rd stage (S-IVB) at 19:51:42 UT, transposed, and docked with the LM at 20:06:37. After a three day cruise, Apollo 10 entered an initial 315.5 km x 110.4 km lunar orbit on 21 May 1969 at 20:44:54 UT, using a 356 sec. SPS burn. A second SPS burn lasting 19.3 seconds circularized the orbit to 113.9 km x 109.1 km."

And there's a ton more information. I've only scraped the surface.

So why do you flat out lie and say "However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc."?

Because you haven't looked for the information therefore it doesn't exist. People have given you all of the info, fuel consumption, timing, rocket specs, force, trajectories, etc. Everything. And you lie and say the information doesn't exist? You are a very dishonest man.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 25, 2020, 01:51:16 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.

There's plenty of info. A 30 second search yielded this about Apollo 10:

"After launch at 16:49:00 UT on 18 May 1969, the spacecraft was inserted into a 189.9 km x 184.4 km Earth parking orbit at 17:00:54 UT, followed by translunar injection after 1 1/2 orbits at 19:28:21 UT. The CSM separated from the Saturn V 3rd stage (S-IVB) at 19:51:42 UT, transposed, and docked with the LM at 20:06:37. After a three day cruise, Apollo 10 entered an initial 315.5 km x 110.4 km lunar orbit on 21 May 1969 at 20:44:54 UT, using a 356 sec. SPS burn. A second SPS burn lasting 19.3 seconds circularized the orbit to 113.9 km x 109.1 km."

And there's a ton more information. I've only scraped the surface.

So why do you flat out lie and say "However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc."?

Because you haven't looked for the information therefore it doesn't exist. People have given you all of the info, fuel consumption, timing, rocket specs, force, trajectories, etc. Everything. And you lie and say the information doesn't exist? You are a very dishonest man.
Yes - but a translunar injection from an orbit around Earth is not possible. It is just typical NASA bullshit published as Fake News 1969 becoming history 2020.
Do you really know what an orbit is?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Shifter on September 25, 2020, 02:18:43 AM
Pick up a rock

Throw it

It orbits the Earth (well, before it hits the ground)

Not a very glamorous one, but hey, no one is Superman
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 25, 2020, 02:49:19 AM
Pick up a rock

Throw it

It orbits the Earth (well, before it hits the ground)

Not a very glamorous one, but hey, no one is Superman
No, a thrown rock just flies above ground before hitting it.
An orbit is always the curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite/spacecraft/moon around a planet governed by gravity forces.
Once in an orbit you cannot start orbiting something else.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Code-Beta1234 on September 25, 2020, 04:41:49 AM
Heiwa play KSP and you will know :)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 25, 2020, 04:57:33 AM
Yes - but a translunar injection from an orbit around Earth is not possible. It is just typical NASA bullshit published as Fake News 1969 becoming history 2020.
Do you really know what an orbit is?

Wail thatís itís not possible and lie about lack of information all you like, you still havenít explained what bit of physics you donít understand.

Why is it not possible to change an orbit by firing the bloody great rocket engine at the back of the spacecraft?



Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 25, 2020, 06:21:03 AM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 25, 2020, 08:03:45 AM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 25, 2020, 08:31:56 AM
Pick up a rock

Throw it

It orbits the Earth (well, before it hits the ground)

Not a very glamorous one, but hey, no one is Superman
No, a thrown rock just flies above ground before hitting it.
An orbit is always the curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite/spacecraft/moon around a planet governed by gravity forces.
Once in an orbit you cannot start orbiting something else.

Wrong.

Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn €1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.


Very rudimentary method.

In a large parking lot drive slowly around a light pole with your wheel turned fully.  You are in effect orbiting the light pole.    At a given point, let go of your steering wheel and increase speed.  You will notice you vehicle's steering wheel will start to straighten, effectively changing the vehicle's orbit around the pole.  Accelerate long enough and your wheels will completely straighten out and you will no longer be in orbit around the light pole.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: JJA on September 25, 2020, 08:32:20 AM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.

Push the big red button that says "ROCKET ENGINE START".  :P
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 25, 2020, 02:18:18 PM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Apply a sufficient force in the appropriate direction at the right time.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 25, 2020, 05:44:30 PM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Apply a sufficient force in the appropriate direction at the right time.
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed? Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer. Or Buzz Aldrin, Ph.D! MIT 63. Imagine MIT selling doctor titles to cheap actors! So you are not alone Markjo selling trips to the Moon.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 25, 2020, 06:06:36 PM
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed?
That depends on how fast you want to get there, but you ultimately you would need a delta-v of 3.12 km/s for lunar transfer from LEO.  Entering lunar orbit requires a deceleration delta-v of 0.14 km/s.

Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer.
Of course they know the answer.  It's just that you don't believe the answer, and I really don't know how to help you with that.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 25, 2020, 06:24:03 PM
Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers.
Why don't you take the courses yourself and see if you can win your own "challenge"?
What about yourself? But start learning what an orbit is.
Because I don't live in Sweden, I already know what an orbit is (and how to change it), and I'm not trying to win your "challenge".
So just tell me how to change a low altitude LEO into a much bigger orbit that touches the Moon, and how you get out of that orbit to start an orbit around the Moon.
Apply a sufficient force in the appropriate direction at the right time.
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed? Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer. Or Buzz Aldrin, Ph.D! MIT 63. Imagine MIT selling doctor titles to cheap actors! So you are not alone Markjo selling trips to the Moon.

You not understanding and not believing the answer doesn't mean they don't know. It is just you flaunting your ignorance yet again.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 25, 2020, 10:52:04 PM
And location and duration, etc. But what is the sufficient force to change LEO to an orbit that brings you the Moon that also orbits Earth at high speed?
That depends on how fast you want to get there, but you ultimately you would need a delta-v of 3.12 km/s for lunar transfer from LEO.  Entering lunar orbit requires a deceleration delta-v of 0.14 km/s.

Neither NASA nor ESA experts know the answer.
Of course they know the answer.  It's just that you don't believe the answer, and I really don't know how to help you with that.

Well, if they know the answer, why not publish it? Start with a very simple example. You are in low altitude, fast, circular LEO and want to change the shape of that orbit into an elliptical one in which your spacecraft encounters the Moon far away, when the Moon flies by (in its orbit around Earth).
What force (N) is required for your spacecraft to get out of LEO? In what direction is the force applied? What is the duration (s) of the application of the force? What is the trajectory of the modified LEO (positions) and what is the variable speed and direction (say every 6 hrs) of your spacecraft? You are in a new elliptic orbit where speed and direction change all the time. How do ensure that the spacecraft safely arrives at the target (position X close to the Moon) after leaving LEO? It is basic space navigation (where speed and direction change all the time = very complicated stuff).
I can navigate a ship at slow, constant speed on a straight course on an ocean of a rotating Earth from A to B but not a spacecraft in 3D space, where speed and direction are reduced due to gravity all the time.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 26, 2020, 03:22:13 AM

Well, if they know the answer, why not publish it? Start with a very simple example. You are in low altitude, fast, circular LEO and want to change the shape of that orbit into an elliptical one in which your spacecraft encounters the Moon far away, when the Moon flies by (in its orbit around Earth).

Like this you mean?  One of many examples you could have easily found if you could be bothered in your years of scienice denial.  It took me a few minutes.

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bullet103/biesbroek103.pdf

Quote
What force (N) is required for your spacecraft to get out of LEO? In what direction is the force applied? What is the duration (s) of the application of the force? What is the trajectory of the modified LEO (positions) and what is the variable speed and direction (say every 6 hrs) of your spacecraft?

The above article deals mainly in delta v.  The force required, duration of burns and exact trajectory obviously depends on the specific spacecraft and mission plans. 

The agencies are under no obligation to publish every small detail of their missions.  They publish what they think is useful to other scientists and engineers or interesting to members of the public who genuinely want to learn.  Itís not their job however to pander to the demands of internet loud mouths who do nothing but call them frauds and reject everything they see as fake anyway.

Apollo missions are different though.  Due to them being historically and technologically significant, NASA has released the aforementioned reams of information for people to delve through.

You can find summaries of each maneuver (planned vs actual) in the post mission reports, like this one:

https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/a11-postlaunch-rep.pdf

Or maybe you want to know how the trajectory affected choice of potential landing sites?:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/site_studies/NASA_C65728v1.pdf

Maybe you want to know how the guidance computers worked?  You can download the original code or play with one of the many emulators various nerds have made with it:

https://svtsim.com/moonjs/agc.html

Thatís whatís so funny about the moon landing conspiracy.  NASA and their contractors would have had to designed, built and tested everything to meet the mission requirements, or thousands of engineers and technicians would have noticed.  Then they would have had to plan the mission in meticulous detail according to what they built or discrepancies in the released documents would be obvious to anyone who understands what theyíre looking at.  At this point they might as well just do it for real.  But on top of all that, they would have had to do everything needed to fake it as well- theyíd have needed film studios and technicians, people to fake the photos, people to fake the samples, some way plant fake signals at tracking stations, etc, etc and everyone involved would be an enormous security risk.

In 50 years since Apollo not one whistleblower has come forward.  Not one engineer has claimed the part they worked on couldnít have done job is was supposed to.  Not one scientist has said the readings they took or the calculations they made didnít make sense.  And no has found any real verifiable problems with any of the documents.

Thatís why all the conspiracy websites completely ignore all this and just whinge that shadows look a bit funny.  Because the they have nothing, absolutely nothing of any substance.

Quote
You are in a new elliptic orbit where speed and direction change all the time. How do ensure that the spacecraft safely arrives at the target (position X close to the Moon) after leaving LEO?

Course corrections.

Quote
It is basic space navigation (where speed and direction change all the time = very complicated stuff).
I can navigate a ship at slow, constant speed on a straight course on an ocean of a rotating Earth from A to B but not a spacecraft in 3D space, where speed and direction are reduced due to gravity all the time.

Really? Can you just point a ship in the right direction, start the engines and forget about everything until you arrive?  Or do you need to check your position and heading and make adjustments?  Can you plan the rudder position and motor speed for the whole trip in advance?  What if youíre sailing?  Donít wind and currents matter at all?  Why does no one publish this information?

Are you really an expert on marine safety?


Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 26, 2020, 08:36:40 AM

Well, if they know the answer, why not publish it? Start with a very simple example. You are in low altitude, fast, circular LEO and want to change the shape of that orbit into an elliptical one in which your spacecraft encounters the Moon far away, when the Moon flies by (in its orbit around Earth).

Like this you mean?  One of many examples you could have easily found if you could be bothered in your years of scienice denial.  It took me a few minutes.

http://www.esa.int/esapub/bulletin/bullet103/biesbroek103.pdf

Quote
What force (N) is required for your spacecraft to get out of LEO? In what direction is the force applied? What is the duration (s) of the application of the force? What is the trajectory of the modified LEO (positions) and what is the variable speed and direction (say every 6 hrs) of your spacecraft?

The above article deals mainly in delta v.  The force required, duration of burns and exact trajectory obviously depends on the specific spacecraft and mission plans. 

The agencies are under no obligation to publish every small detail of their missions.  They publish what they think is useful to other scientists and engineers or interesting to members of the public who genuinely want to learn.  Itís not their job however to pander to the demands of internet loud mouths who do nothing but call them frauds and reject everything they see as fake anyway.

Apollo missions are different though.  Due to them being historically and technologically significant, NASA has released the aforementioned reams of information for people to delve through.

You can find summaries of each maneuver (planned vs actual) in the post mission reports, like this one:

https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap11fj/pdf/a11-postlaunch-rep.pdf

Or maybe you want to know how the trajectory affected choice of potential landing sites?:

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/lunar/site_studies/NASA_C65728v1.pdf

Maybe you want to know how the guidance computers worked?  You can download the original code or play with one of the many emulators various nerds have made with it:

https://svtsim.com/moonjs/agc.html

Thatís whatís so funny about the moon landing conspiracy.  NASA and their contractors would have had to designed, built and tested everything to meet the mission requirements, or thousands of engineers and technicians would have noticed.  Then they would have had to plan the mission in meticulous detail according to what they built or discrepancies in the released documents would be obvious to anyone who understands what theyíre looking at.  At this point they might as well just do it for real.  But on top of all that, they would have had to do everything needed to fake it as well- theyíd have needed film studios and technicians, people to fake the photos, people to fake the samples, some way plant fake signals at tracking stations, etc, etc and everyone involved would be an enormous security risk.

In 50 years since Apollo not one whistleblower has come forward.  Not one engineer has claimed the part they worked on couldnít have done job is was supposed to.  Not one scientist has said the readings they took or the calculations they made didnít make sense.  And no has found any real verifiable problems with any of the documents.

Thatís why all the conspiracy websites completely ignore all this and just whinge that shadows look a bit funny.  Because the they have nothing, absolutely nothing of any substance.

Quote
You are in a new elliptic orbit where speed and direction change all the time. How do ensure that the spacecraft safely arrives at the target (position X close to the Moon) after leaving LEO?

Course corrections.

Quote
It is basic space navigation (where speed and direction change all the time = very complicated stuff).
I can navigate a ship at slow, constant speed on a straight course on an ocean of a rotating Earth from A to B but not a spacecraft in 3D space, where speed and direction are reduced due to gravity all the time.


Really? Can you just point a ship in the right direction, start the engines and forget about everything until you arrive?  Or do you need to check your position and heading and make adjustments?  Can you plan the rudder position and motor speed for the whole trip in advance?  What if youíre sailing?  Donít wind and currents matter at all?  Why does no one publish this information?

Are you really an expert on marine safety?
No, I try to improve safety at sea since 1971.
Re topic orbits - you say:
"The agencies are under no obligation to publish every small detail of their missions.  They publish what they think is useful to other scientists and engineers or interesting to members of the public who genuinely want to learn.  Itís not their job however to pander to the demands of internet loud mouths who do nothing but call them frauds and reject everything they see as fake anyway."
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: JJA on September 26, 2020, 08:40:35 AM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 26, 2020, 09:03:44 AM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.
Yes - plenty people are like that. Pure bullshit. What a crowd.
But topic is orbits. Do you know what an orbit is?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: JJA on September 26, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.
Yes - plenty people are like that. Pure bullshit. What a crowd.
But topic is orbits. Do you know what an orbit is?

Do you?  Please explain what you think an orbit is. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 26, 2020, 10:56:28 AM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.
Yes - plenty people are like that. Pure bullshit. What a crowd.
But topic is orbits. Do you know what an orbit is?

Do you?  Please explain what you think an orbit is.
Easy. Sputnik 1 was the first man made object orbiting planet Earth 1440 times back in summer 1959. USSR catapulted it into orbit using a big rocket. Everyone talked about it. Media reported, etc.
Sputnik was also the train that went around West Berlin after the Wall was built 1961 that you had to use if you lived in the wrong place in the East and couldn't cross West Berlin.
Where do you live? 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 26, 2020, 10:58:30 AM
Not seeing any calculations here.

Why not?

Tell you what, Iíll give you a million quid if you can prove itís impossible with the correct calculations and stated specifications.
Topic is "Orbits. How do they work?"
It seems we all agree that an orbit is a circular or elliptical trajectory around Earth at a certain speed and altitude not to drop down on Earth again. Getting a satellite into orbit from Earth is easy and possible. French company Arianespace does it all the time. You use a rocket that catapults the satellite into the orbit (while the rocket drops back on Earth).
The problem is to get out of such an orbit intact. It is in fact impossible.
Of course there are 'experts' suggesting that you can go from one orbit to another, from e.g. around Earth, then around the Sun and finally start orbiting the Moon (or an assteroid) but such 'experts' do not work at Arianespace. European Space Agency, ESA, are full och such experts. And you can learn about it at the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden, at no cost. The professor says he has himself orbited Earth in a spacecraft many times but ... it is just fantasy. http://heiwaco.com/moontravela.htm

As Unconvinced pointed out, your 'evidence' seems to be that you called some professors in Sweden and they didn't return your phonecalls? What sort of evidence is that? Sounds simply like the rantings and ravings of a lunatic.

You say the calculations are wrong yet you have no calculations. So how would you know they are wrong? Because someone didn't return your vmail?

What are your calculations? Without them you have zero argument and just appear a crackpot.


Well, the Royal Institute of Technology, Stockholm, Sweden offers three courses in space travel and I have informed three professors and their students there to earn Ä1M to describe a space trip to the Moon/Mars, etc ... no takers. Same offer has been done to US and Russian universities. No replies.
The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used.
Questions remain - how to change high speed orbits and stop in orbits?

Something you don't seem to get:

1) Not getting a response to you vmails is in no way an admission of anything. Sheer lunacy to think so an unreturned vmail means all of a sudden, physics don't work.
2) If they happened to even bother to check you out and look at your website, they would be like, "Whoah, what's this conspiracy nut job all about?" I mean it's pretty apparent you're a wild conspiracy theorist. Why bother?

And as for "The only info available is that fuel is used for a space trip but not how, when, where and how it was used." That's just an out and out lie. I spent 5 minutes and found all of the fuel required and specs for the mission. As many others have. I could spend more time and get you the documentation that shows the when and where. Which you have already been given. Why do you lie?

You've been presented all of this info many times. You never provide any calculations as to why it's wrong. You just say experts don't return your calls. You're kind of batshit crazy in this regard. Everyone knows it. That's why no one wants to play in your made up sandbox.

Provide some calculations why it's wrong. It's the only place to legitimately start from. Otherwise, you're just whining about how no one will talk to you and you're just lonely in your conspiratorial thoughts.
You haven't studied my website and findings. Re going to the Moon experts suggest that you first arrive in LEO, i.e. an orbit at low altitude (200 000 m) at high speed (>7 km/s) and that then, in orbit, you fire a rocket engine during several minutes to increase velocity of the spacecraft (to >11.2 km/s) and proceed to a way point in space for a second modification of orbit several days later. However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc. It is simply not possible to increase speed in orbit to arrive to another location in space a couple of days later. During the trip to the way point the velocity is reduced due to Earth gravity but  there is no way to calculate the arrival time. Finally, when arriving at the way point in space, you fire the rocket engine again to get out of the orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon! Not possible. It doesn't work like that.

There's plenty of info. A 30 second search yielded this about Apollo 10:

"After launch at 16:49:00 UT on 18 May 1969, the spacecraft was inserted into a 189.9 km x 184.4 km Earth parking orbit at 17:00:54 UT, followed by translunar injection after 1 1/2 orbits at 19:28:21 UT. The CSM separated from the Saturn V 3rd stage (S-IVB) at 19:51:42 UT, transposed, and docked with the LM at 20:06:37. After a three day cruise, Apollo 10 entered an initial 315.5 km x 110.4 km lunar orbit on 21 May 1969 at 20:44:54 UT, using a 356 sec. SPS burn. A second SPS burn lasting 19.3 seconds circularized the orbit to 113.9 km x 109.1 km."

And there's a ton more information. I've only scraped the surface.

So why do you flat out lie and say "However, there is no info about it, i.e. location, time, duration, force applied and its direction, etc."?

Because you haven't looked for the information therefore it doesn't exist. People have given you all of the info, fuel consumption, timing, rocket specs, force, trajectories, etc. Everything. And you lie and say the information doesn't exist? You are a very dishonest man.
Yes - but a translunar injection from an orbit around Earth is not possible. It is just typical NASA bullshit published as Fake News 1969 becoming history 2020.
Do you really know what an orbit is?

So the culmination of your lack of evidence, calculations and knowledge is that Rocket Scientists don't return your phonecalls and NASA is bullshit.? Well done. Way to play the crackpot card. How can you have a challenge when you have no way being able to say whether the challenge has been met or not? Like I said, you're a very dishonest person.

In any case. Here's all the information you've requested just to get you started:

(https://i.imgur.com/Oo91eqV.jpg)
http://www.braeunig.us/space/interpl.htm

There's a lot more there. It gives you all the data and calculations you need with examples for everything from earth to interplanetary orbits and how to move between them. And it's non-NASA, non-ESA.

Let us know where the calculations are incorrect and report back. Until you can figure that out, you have no challenge.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 26, 2020, 11:39:12 AM

I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

LOL

You claim that NASA and the ESA canít say how to do it, but when I link to NASA and the ESA saying exactly how they do it suddenly youíre not interested and want me to explain instead?

Why?  I donít run a space agency, I donít launch any rockets.  Whether I can explain it or not is irrelevant.  What matters is if the people who actually do it can explain it.  And they can, despite all your lies that they canít.

You donít really want to know anything, you just want to arbitrarily reject it.  No possible answer I or anyone else give you could ever be good enough, youíll always find some lame excuse and you know it. And thatís the real reason your ďchallengeĒ is such a joke.  No sane person would think for a second that you would pay up even if you really did have the money.  Theyíre all just laughing at your excuses.

Just like the rest of this sad bunch of conspiracy theorists-

ďOoh, look!  The flagís waving!  NASA must have left the door to the sound stage open while there was a howling gale outside!Ē   

Pathetic.  The lot of you.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: JJA on September 26, 2020, 12:25:05 PM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon. I have asked the agencies several times but ... no reply.
That's why I wonder about it on the Internet?
Please explain to me how to fly to the Moon. No garbage links to ESA/NASA bullshit, please.

Yeah, ask them how to unmask secret lizard people and I bet you get the same answer.

That might give you a hint why people don't write you back.
Yes - plenty people are like that. Pure bullshit. What a crowd.
But topic is orbits. Do you know what an orbit is?

Do you?  Please explain what you think an orbit is.
Easy. Sputnik 1 was the first man made object orbiting planet Earth 1440 times back in summer 1959. USSR catapulted it into orbit using a big rocket. Everyone talked about it. Media reported, etc.
Sputnik was also the train that went around West Berlin after the Wall was built 1961 that you had to use if you lived in the wrong place in the East and couldn't cross West Berlin.
Where do you live?

Wow.

I expected some kind of rambling, off topic non-answer but you knocked it out of the park.

Congrats. :)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 26, 2020, 06:20:16 PM


So the culmination of your lack of evidence, calculations and knowledge is that Rocket Scientists don't return your phonecalls and NASA is bullshit.? Well done. Way to play the crackpot card. How can you have a challenge when you have no way being able to say whether the challenge has been met or not? Like I said, you're a very dishonest person.

In any case. Here's all the information you've requested just to get you started:

(https://i.imgur.com/Oo91eqV.jpg)
http://www.braeunig.us/space/interpl.htm

There's a lot more there. It gives you all the data and calculations you need with examples for everything from earth to interplanetary orbits and how to move between them. And it's non-NASA, non-ESA.

Let us know where the calculations are incorrect and report back. Until you can figure that out, you have no challenge.

Thanks for the link. It doesn't explain how an orbit around planet Earth works and how to go to the Moon or Mars starting in LEO around Earth.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 26, 2020, 08:13:53 PM


So the culmination of your lack of evidence, calculations and knowledge is that Rocket Scientists don't return your phonecalls and NASA is bullshit.? Well done. Way to play the crackpot card. How can you have a challenge when you have no way being able to say whether the challenge has been met or not? Like I said, you're a very dishonest person.

In any case. Here's all the information you've requested just to get you started:

(https://i.imgur.com/Oo91eqV.jpg)
http://www.braeunig.us/space/interpl.htm

There's a lot more there. It gives you all the data and calculations you need with examples for everything from earth to interplanetary orbits and how to move between them. And it's non-NASA, non-ESA.

Let us know where the calculations are incorrect and report back. Until you can figure that out, you have no challenge.

Thanks for the link. It doesn't explain how an orbit around planet Earth works and how to go to the Moon or Mars starting in LEO around Earth.

Sure it does. You have to read all of it. What I posted was just the intro. But for you to say the data and calculations don't exist is a lie. It's all right there. When you have shown that the calculations are incorrect, you have a challenge. In the mean time, you have no challenge. Good luck. Report back when you have shown the calculations to be incorrect.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 26, 2020, 08:43:12 PM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon.
No, you aren't.  If you were genuinely interested, then you would be open to the idea that it's possible instead of calling it all propaganda or BS.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 26, 2020, 10:28:55 PM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon.
No, you aren't.  If you were genuinely interested, then you would be open to the idea that it's possible instead of calling it all propaganda or BS.
Orbits are real. No doubt about it. But humans in orbits are pure bullshit. Orbits are one way. No way to stop and change orbits.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 27, 2020, 09:18:32 AM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon.
No, you aren't.  If you were genuinely interested, then you would be open to the idea that it's possible instead of calling it all propaganda or BS.
Orbits are real. No doubt about it. But humans orbits are pure bullshit. Orbits are one way. No way to stop and change orbits.
Why would you want to stop to change your orbit?  Do you stop your ship when you want to change course?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 27, 2020, 09:45:11 AM
I am genuinely interested to know how to leave LEO to arrive close to the moving Moon.
No, you aren't.  If you were genuinely interested, then you would be open to the idea that it's possible instead of calling it all propaganda or BS.
Orbits are real. No doubt about it. But humans orbits are pure bullshit. Orbits are one way. No way to stop and change orbits.
Why would you want to stop to change your orbit?  Do you stop your ship when you want to change course?
When you are in orbit, there is no way to stop, unless the orbit is very elliptic and you are at the far end of it (far away from anything). Why would you stop there?
To change orbit is impossible. If you, e.g. orbit Earth, you cannot suddenly start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars. Earth gravity prevents you.
I know plenty 'experts' suggest that, when you are orbiting Earth, you can suddenly fire a rocket/apply force to your spacecraft, so it starts orbiting something else. But it is bullshit. It doesn't work like that. Once in an orbit, always in that orbit. You can only change the shape of the orbit, etc, etc.
You should really study the matter.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 27, 2020, 11:09:37 AM
Bollocks.  Prove it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 27, 2020, 12:32:13 PM
When you are in orbit, there is no way to stop, unless the orbit is very elliptic and you are at the far end of it (far away from anything). Why would you stop there?
Again, why would you want to stop your orbit.

To change orbit is impossible. If you, e.g. orbit Earth, you cannot suddenly start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars.
I don't know if anyone has ever claimed that orbit changes are sudden.  The size and shape of your orbit depends mostly on your speed.  If you want to change your orbit, you change your speed.  Only an idiot would try to stop to change their orbit.  Are you an idiot?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 27, 2020, 02:27:12 PM
When you are in orbit, there is no way to stop, unless the orbit is very elliptic and you are at the far end of it (far away from anything). Why would you stop there?
Again, why would you want to stop your orbit.

To change orbit is impossible. If you, e.g. orbit Earth, you cannot suddenly start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars.
I don't know if anyone has ever claimed that orbit changes are sudden.  The size and shape of your orbit depends mostly on your speed.  If you want to change your orbit, you change your speed.  Only an idiot would try to stop to change their orbit.  Are you an idiot?
No, by changing speed you only change the shape of the orbit, not the celestial body that you orbit around. You really have to make an effort to know what an orbit is.
A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars by changing speed. It is basic space astronautics. Once in an orbit, always in that orbit. And you cannot stop in an orbit and jump to another orbit and so on. Only idiots think so.

And how do you change speed in high speed orbit? By applying a force using a rocket? But when, where and in what direction and for how long? And how much fuel is used? And where does it come from?

NASA, ESA, JAXA have fantastic stories about spacecrafts visiting assteroids in space. Their spacecrafts start orbiting Earth, then orbit the Sun, then chase the assteroid in its orbit around the Sun and when arriving close to the assteroid, the spacecrafts slow down and start orbiting the assteroid. And finally they land on the assteroid. And then they return to Earth after many orbit changes ... and land on Earth!
What a stupid story. But plenty people/idiots believe it. Do you believe in visiting assteroids?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on September 27, 2020, 02:39:48 PM
This may help.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 27, 2020, 03:23:18 PM
When you are in orbit, there is no way to stop, unless the orbit is very elliptic and you are at the far end of it (far away from anything). Why would you stop there?
Again, why would you want to stop your orbit.

To change orbit is impossible. If you, e.g. orbit Earth, you cannot suddenly start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars.
I don't know if anyone has ever claimed that orbit changes are sudden.  The size and shape of your orbit depends mostly on your speed.  If you want to change your orbit, you change your speed.  Only an idiot would try to stop to change their orbit.  Are you an idiot?
No, by changing speed you only change the shape of the orbit, not the celestial body that you orbit around. You really have to make an effort to know what an orbit is.
A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars by changing speed. It is basic space astronautics. Once in an orbit, always in that orbit. And you cannot stop in an orbit and jump to another orbit and so on. Only idiots think so.

And how do you change speed in high speed orbit? By applying a force using a rocket? But when, where and in what direction and for how long? And how much fuel is used? And where does it come from?

NASA, ESA, JAXA have fantastic stories about spacecrafts visiting assteroids in space. Their spacecrafts start orbiting Earth, then orbit the Sun, then chase the assteroid in its orbit around the Sun and when arriving close to the assteroid, the spacecrafts slow down and start orbiting the assteroid. And finally they land on the assteroid. And then they return to Earth after many orbit changes ... and land on Earth!
What a stupid story. But plenty people/idiots believe it. Do you believe in visiting assteroids?

I see Heiwa is still proving he hasn't bothered to actually study the subject himself.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 27, 2020, 04:15:00 PM
No, by changing speed you only change the shape of the orbit, not the celestial body that you orbit around.
Of course you can, assuming that you're clever enough.  Obviously you aren't.

A spacecraft orbiting Earth cannot start orbiting the Moon, the Sun or planet Mars by changing speed.
Sure it can, assuming that you understand the gravitational fields of the various celestial bodies.  Obviously you don't.

It is basic space astronautics. Once in an orbit, always in that orbit. And you cannot stop in an orbit and jump to another orbit and so on. Only idiots think so.
Right, which is why every time you say "stop in an orbit" you're proving yourself to be an idiot.

And how do you change speed in high speed orbit? By applying a force using a rocket?
Obviously.  That is unless you want to get out and push.

But when, where and in what direction and for how long? And how much fuel is used?
That depends on how much you want to change your speed.

And where does it come from?
Where do you think?

Do you believe in visiting assteroids?
I believe that space agencies know a lot more about orbits than you do.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 27, 2020, 04:44:53 PM

I believe that space agencies know a lot more about orbits than you do.

Please, stop believing idiotic things. Just show that you know how to change orbit from around Earth, e.g. LEO, to an orbit around the Sun by changing the speed.
When and why do your spacecraft suddenly stop orbiting Earth and start orbiting the Sun?
Do you really know what an orbit is?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 27, 2020, 05:08:34 PM

I believe that space agencies know a lot more about orbits than you do.

Please, stop believing idiotic things.
Please stop saying idiotic things.

Just show that you know how to change orbit from around Earth, e.g. LEO, to an orbit around the Sun by changing the speed.
That would depend on what kind of orbit around the sun you want.

When and why do your spacecraft suddenly stop orbiting Earth and start orbiting the Sun?
When the sun's gravitational field becomes a stronger influence on the spacecraft than the earth's gravitational field.

Do you really know what an orbit is?
Yes.  Do you?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 27, 2020, 09:36:11 PM

I believe that space agencies know a lot more about orbits than you do.

Please, stop believing idiotic things.
Please stop saying idiotic things.

Just show that you know how to change orbit from around Earth, e.g. LEO, to an orbit around the Sun by changing the speed.
That would depend on what kind of orbit around the sun you want.

When and why do your spacecraft suddenly stop orbiting Earth and start orbiting the Sun?
When the sun's gravitational field becomes a stronger influence on the spacecraft than the earth's gravitational field.

Do you really know what an orbit is?
Yes.  Do you?

Hm, so when the sun's gravitational field becomes a stronger influence on the spacecraft than the earth's gravitational field, the spacecraft stops orbiting Earth and starts orbiting the Sun.
It is not possible. The Sun's gravitational field keeps planet Earth (and all other planets) orbiting the Sun. The Earth's gravitational field keeps the Moon and spacecrafts catapulted into space from Earth orbiting the Earth.
A spacecraft cannot orbit the Sun and Earth at the same time. Actually all human built  spacecrafts orbit only Earth ... and they can never stop it. It is a one-way trip.
Only idiots believe otherwise.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 28, 2020, 12:36:55 AM

Hm, so when the sun's gravitational field becomes a stronger influence on the spacecraft than the earth's gravitational field, the spacecraft stops orbiting Earth and starts orbiting the Sun.
It is not possible. The Sun's gravitational field keeps planet Earth (and all other planets) orbiting the Sun. The Earth's gravitational field keeps the Moon and spacecrafts catapulted into space from Earth orbiting the Earth.
A spacecraft cannot orbit the Sun and Earth at the same time. Actually all human built  spacecrafts orbit only Earth ... and they can never stop it. It is a one-way trip.
Only idiots believe otherwise.

Good grief.  How are you still so confused by all this?

The earth orbits the sun. So everything on the Earth including you and me is also orbiting the sun.  Anything in orbit around the earth including the moon and satellites is also orbiting the sun.

To get to an outer planet you need to increase the size of the solar orbit by firing prograde, and time it  to intercept the planet.

(https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/bosf/docs/04_01v2_Earth-Mars-Trans-Orb_800x420.gif)

To get to an inner planet, you need to fire your engines the other way to decrease the size of the solar orbit.

These are called Hohmann Transfer Orbits.  Look it up and you might actually learn something.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 01:53:13 AM

Hm, so when the sun's gravitational field becomes a stronger influence on the spacecraft than the earth's gravitational field, the spacecraft stops orbiting Earth and starts orbiting the Sun.
It is not possible. The Sun's gravitational field keeps planet Earth (and all other planets) orbiting the Sun. The Earth's gravitational field keeps the Moon and spacecrafts catapulted into space from Earth orbiting the Earth.
A spacecraft cannot orbit the Sun and Earth at the same time. Actually all human built  spacecrafts orbit only Earth ... and they can never stop it. It is a one-way trip.
Only idiots believe otherwise.

Good grief.  How are you still so confused by all this?

The earth orbits the sun. So everything on the Earth including you and me is also orbiting the sun.  Anything in orbit around the earth including the moon and satellites is also orbiting the sun.

To get to an outer planet you need to increase the size of the solar orbit by firing prograde, and time it  to intercept the planet.

(https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/bosf/docs/04_01v2_Earth-Mars-Trans-Orb_800x420.gif)

To get to an inner planet, you need to fire your engines the other way to decrease the size of the solar orbit.

These are called Hohmann Transfer Orbits.  Look it up and you might actually learn something.
No, only Earth orbits the Sun. The Moon does not orbit the Sun. The Moon only orbits Earth. And a spacecraft lifting off from Earth into space only orbits Earth. It is all due to gravity.
There is no way to transfer from one orbit A to another orbit B by, e.g. increasing speed in orbit A. Then only the shape of the orbit A is changed. No transfer of any kind is possible.
It seems you have misunderstood the basics. Many universities have too.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 28, 2020, 02:54:18 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 05:55:24 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 28, 2020, 06:38:51 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 07:44:58 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 28, 2020, 08:12:59 AM
A spacecraft cannot orbit the Sun and Earth at the same time. Actually all human built  spacecrafts orbit only Earth ...
That depends on your frame of reference.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c8ca8c109ecb9dacdaa8295c535d2bab.webp)


...and they can never stop it. It is a one-way trip.
You don't stop your orbit.  You transfer from one orbit to another.

By the way, you may also want to look into Lagrange points.  They are points where the gravitational influence of celestial bodies are balanced.
https://www.esa.int/Enabling_Support/Operations/What_are_Lagrange_points
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 28, 2020, 08:44:23 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 09:19:04 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 28, 2020, 09:53:19 AM
The simplicity that Heiwa fails to understand.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 09:56:12 AM
The simplicity that Heiwa fails to understand.


Typical US garbage bullshit. I am lucky not to drown in it!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 28, 2020, 10:20:39 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 28, 2020, 11:14:26 AM
The simplicity that Heiwa fails to understand.


Typical US garbage bullshit. I am lucky not to drown in it!
I thought that you said that you were interested in how to get to the moon.  Obviously you're only interested in denying it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 28, 2020, 11:16:31 AM
I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations.
He did the calculations in his head.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 11:45:28 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there. I repeat:
You are in high speed orbit A and want to go to orbit B by adding speed C at very high speed, when you are somewhere in A. Is then A + C = B. No, it isn't. Only idiots believe it ... and you are plenty. You don't even know how to slow down and insert at B after A + C.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 28, 2020, 11:48:43 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 28, 2020, 02:56:36 PM
Please check again. All calculations are there. I repeat:
You are in high speed orbit A and want to go to orbit B by adding speed C at very high speed, when you are somewhere in A. Is then A + C = B. No, it isn't. Only idiots believe it ... and you are plenty. You don't even know how to slow down and insert at B after A + C.
Anders, how do you suppose Arianespace gets a satellite into geostationary orbit?  Magic?

No.  They use a geostationary transfer orbit.  It starts as a highly elliptical orbit and then apply a force the apogee to circularize the orbit at the proper altitude.  After that, it still takes some fancy maneuvering to move the satellite into its final, very precise orbital slot.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0c1a66c7176a6dbfef6cd948cfe5b98e.webp)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 05:39:53 PM
Please check again. All calculations are there. I repeat:
You are in high speed orbit A and want to go to orbit B by adding speed C at very high speed, when you are somewhere in A. Is then A + C = B. No, it isn't. Only idiots believe it ... and you are plenty. You don't even know how to slow down and insert at B after A + C.
Anders, how do you suppose Arianespace gets a satellite into geostationary orbit?  Magic?

No.  They use a geostationary transfer orbit.  It starts as a highly elliptical orbit and then apply a force the apogee to circularize the orbit at the proper altitude.  After that, it still takes some fancy maneuvering to move the satellite into its final, very precise orbital slot.
(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0c1a66c7176a6dbfef6cd948cfe5b98e.webp)
It is easy to change from Low Earth Orbit (low altitude/high speed around Earth) to Geostationary Orbit (high altitude/low speed around Earth). You just change the altitude. The speed changes itself. And you are still in orbit. Around Earth.
No way to start orbiting the Moon or the Sun that way. Or to stop and land anywhere.
Only idiots believe in human space travel changing orbits, stopping on the way, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on September 28, 2020, 05:42:06 PM
Lol

How does one change altitude?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 05:48:42 PM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
? I thought I explained the Gravity Assist Kick fraud at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelc.htm .
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 05:52:49 PM
Lol

How does one change altitude?

Arianespace uses the same rocket that puts the satellite in LEO to catapult it into GEO.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on September 28, 2020, 05:55:34 PM
So an accelerating rocket?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 28, 2020, 07:52:58 PM
It is easy to change from Low Earth Orbit (low altitude/high speed around Earth) to Geostationary Orbit (high altitude/low speed around Earth). You just change the altitude.
Hold on.  Didn't you use all of your fuel getting to LEO?  Where did you get the fuel to raise your altitude?

The speed changes itself. And you are still in orbit. Around Earth.
No way to start orbiting the Moon or the Sun that way.
What if you were to raise your altitude of your orbit to the same altitude as the moon and then once you get near the moon, you slow down enough to be captured by the moon's gravity?  The moon does have gravity, doesn't it?

Quote
Or to stop and land anywhere.
What if you change your orbit so that the perigee is at the surface of the earth?

Only idiots believe in human space travel changing orbits, stopping on the way, etc, etc.
Wait a minute.  Can orbits be changed or can't they?  Also, why do you keep wanting to stop on the way? 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 28, 2020, 09:22:11 PM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
? I thought I explained the Gravity Assist Kick fraud at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelc.htm .

No, you did not provide any calculations. All you say are things like, "The gravity assisted kick/slingshot nonsense was probably invented by some NASA science fiction writers in the 1950's not knowing much and is now taught at US universities as astrophysics. It is comical. Every time I meet astrophysicists, I ask about gravity assisted kicks. They cannot explain them!"

That's not a calculation showing how transferring orbits is impossible. It's you just saying so because someone won't answer your questions or return your calls and you're not an astrophysicist - Because they know they are obviously dealing with someone who has crackpot conspiracy notions. Why bother.

Unless you have some calculations showing how the presented calculations are wrong, you have no challenge. No calculations, no challenge. Your opinions do not amount to a challenge.

Do the calculations and let us know when you actually have a challenge. In the mean time, none exists.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 28, 2020, 10:29:17 PM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
? I thought I explained the Gravity Assist Kick fraud at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelc.htm .

No, you did not provide any calculations. All you say are things like, "The gravity assisted kick/slingshot nonsense was probably invented by some NASA science fiction writers in the 1950's not knowing much and is now taught at US universities as astrophysics. It is comical. Every time I meet astrophysicists, I ask about gravity assisted kicks. They cannot explain them!"

That's not a calculation showing how transferring orbits is impossible. It's you just saying so because someone won't answer your questions or return your calls and you're not an astrophysicist - Because they know they are obviously dealing with someone who has crackpot conspiracy notions. Why bother.

Unless you have some calculations showing how the presented calculations are wrong, you have no challenge. No calculations, no challenge. Your opinions do not amount to a challenge.

Do the calculations and let us know when you actually have a challenge. In the mean time, none exists.
But I do at my webpage - link provided above:

Planet Earth has tangential velocity U = 29 900 m/s in circular orbit around the Sun. It means Earth moves 29 900 m left every second in the little sketch left. At the same time it turns 360į in a year = one orbit around the Sun.

The spacecraft has tangential velocity v = 10 000 m/s in the opposite head-on direction (also in orbit around Sun or Earth or what?). It means the spacecraft moves 10 000 m every second in the opposite direction, i.e. top right in the sketch left.


You can read the end at my webpage and why Gravity Assisted Kicks are nonsense.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Shifter on September 28, 2020, 11:39:24 PM
Heiwa is the Voyager 1&2 space craft in orbit of Earth?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 29, 2020, 12:08:51 AM

But I do at my webpage - link provided above:

Planet Earth has tangential velocity U = 29 900 m/s in circular orbit around the Sun. It means Earth moves 29 900 m left every second in the little sketch left. At the same time it turns 360į in a year = one orbit around the Sun.

The spacecraft has tangential velocity v = 10 000 m/s in the opposite head-on direction (also in orbit around Sun or Earth or what?). It means the spacecraft moves 10 000 m every second in the opposite direction, i.e. top right in the sketch left.


You can read the end at my webpage and why Gravity Assisted Kicks are nonsense.

Nice calculations.  Youíve worked out that 29 900 x 1 = 29 900, and 10 000 x 1 = 10 000.

Thatís not rocket science!

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 29, 2020, 02:06:45 AM
Heiwa is the Voyager 1&2 space craft in orbit of Earth?
Yes, when they started. And then they disappeared somewhere. As gravity assisted kicks do not work, they must still orbit Earth somewhere.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 29, 2020, 10:02:00 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
? I thought I explained the Gravity Assist Kick fraud at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelc.htm .

No, you did not provide any calculations. All you say are things like, "The gravity assisted kick/slingshot nonsense was probably invented by some NASA science fiction writers in the 1950's not knowing much and is now taught at US universities as astrophysics. It is comical. Every time I meet astrophysicists, I ask about gravity assisted kicks. They cannot explain them!"

That's not a calculation showing how transferring orbits is impossible. It's you just saying so because someone won't answer your questions or return your calls and you're not an astrophysicist - Because they know they are obviously dealing with someone who has crackpot conspiracy notions. Why bother.

Unless you have some calculations showing how the presented calculations are wrong, you have no challenge. No calculations, no challenge. Your opinions do not amount to a challenge.

Do the calculations and let us know when you actually have a challenge. In the mean time, none exists.
But I do at my webpage - link provided above:

Planet Earth has tangential velocity U = 29 900 m/s in circular orbit around the Sun. It means Earth moves 29 900 m left every second in the little sketch left. At the same time it turns 360į in a year = one orbit around the Sun.

The spacecraft has tangential velocity v = 10 000 m/s in the opposite head-on direction (also in orbit around Sun or Earth or what?). It means the spacecraft moves 10 000 m every second in the opposite direction, i.e. top right in the sketch left.


You can read the end at my webpage and why Gravity Assisted Kicks are nonsense.

That is not a calculation and there's nothing on your site resembling any sort of calculations. Just speculation and opinion, which doesn't cut it for a challenge. Where is the transfer insertion formula/calculation broken in the example provided that makes changing orbits impossible? No calculations, no challenge. It's as simple as that. Unless of course someone could win your challenge by getting one of the scientists you contacted to call you back. That seems to be the only real criteria for success at the moment. Everything else is just you saying "It's impossible..." which doesn't really mean anything. No challenge exists.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 29, 2020, 11:26:26 AM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
? I thought I explained the Gravity Assist Kick fraud at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelc.htm .

No, you did not provide any calculations. All you say are things like, "The gravity assisted kick/slingshot nonsense was probably invented by some NASA science fiction writers in the 1950's not knowing much and is now taught at US universities as astrophysics. It is comical. Every time I meet astrophysicists, I ask about gravity assisted kicks. They cannot explain them!"

That's not a calculation showing how transferring orbits is impossible. It's you just saying so because someone won't answer your questions or return your calls and you're not an astrophysicist - Because they know they are obviously dealing with someone who has crackpot conspiracy notions. Why bother.

Unless you have some calculations showing how the presented calculations are wrong, you have no challenge. No calculations, no challenge. Your opinions do not amount to a challenge.

Do the calculations and let us know when you actually have a challenge. In the mean time, none exists.
But I do at my webpage - link provided above:

Planet Earth has tangential velocity U = 29 900 m/s in circular orbit around the Sun. It means Earth moves 29 900 m left every second in the little sketch left. At the same time it turns 360į in a year = one orbit around the Sun.

The spacecraft has tangential velocity v = 10 000 m/s in the opposite head-on direction (also in orbit around Sun or Earth or what?). It means the spacecraft moves 10 000 m every second in the opposite direction, i.e. top right in the sketch left.


You can read the end at my webpage and why Gravity Assisted Kicks are nonsense.

That is not a calculation and there's nothing on your site resembling any sort of calculations. Just speculation and opinion, which doesn't cut it for a challenge. Where is the transfer insertion formula/calculation broken in the example provided that makes changing orbits impossible? No calculations, no challenge. It's as simple as that. Unless of course someone could win your challenge by getting one of the scientists you contacted to call you back. That seems to be the only real criteria for success at the moment. Everything else is just you saying "It's impossible..." which doesn't really mean anything. No challenge exists.
Sorry, you are 100% wrong. My website is 100% correct. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 29, 2020, 12:41:22 PM
The only person here not understanding the basics is you.

Thatís why everyone else is able to provide links to pages on basic orbital mechanics, and all you can say is ďiTs ImPosSiblE!Ē.

Why do you think you know better than everyone who studies it, and everyone who launches satellites?

Youíre no different from the flat earthers who donít believe in gravity at all.  The problem isnít that youíve come across something you donít understand, itís your stubborn refusal to even try to understand it.  You just keep saying youíre right and everyone else is wrong.
Sorry, I know very well what an orbit is according Gallileo and Newton. It is an object flying around a celestial body, e.g. a planet around the Sun, a moon around a planet or a satellite around Earth. The orbit can be round or elliptical. The dynamics of it are easy to understand if you believe in gravity (a force that attracts masses).
This Holman transfer of a spacecraft moving between two planet orbits (Earth and Mars) you refer to is not proven. The spacecraft cannot get away from Earth as suggested (it will always orbit Earth at variable speeds) and, if it arrives close to Mars in its orbit around the Sun, it will just crash there.

What are your calculations for the transfer not working? All you ever say is that scientists won't return your voicemails and that it won't work. You never say why it won't work.

What's incorrect about this:

(https://i.imgur.com/G5g5I5r.jpg)

Show us how the calculations are incorrect. Otherwise, you have no challenge.
I have done at my website since many years. "Gravity kicks" and similar are pure BS. Don't tell me that space travel is to orbit from planets to planets and be kicked to the target by gravity kicks?
What space travel sect do you belong to? NASA? ESA? JAXA? Or the Russian one?

Why don't you show us here how the calculations presented are incorrect? Again, you just saying so does not suffice and does not make for a challenge. You have no challenge until you can show where the errors are.
But I do it at my website. Visit it! I cannot copy/paste it all the time.
Topic here is orbits and how they work.
Do you know what an orbit is?
Good.
All things I know in orbits like planets, moons, satellites, space garbage have always been in one orbit from start to end since billions of years. I have never known any object that can transfer from one orbit to another. And why do it? Why not stay in orbit?

I checked. And no, there are no calculations on your site that refute these calculations. Address these calculations presented directly. Where are they wrong? Without your calculations you have no challenge.
Please check again. All calculations are there.

I did. There's nothing there. Post some calculations you have that address and show where the ones posted here are incorrect. Otherwise, no calculations means no challenge.

If you want to have a thread here then you need to address things here. You can't just say, "Oh, just go look at X site...". Especially considering it's your own site. You need to be able to respond directly.
? I thought I explained the Gravity Assist Kick fraud at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/moontravelc.htm .

No, you did not provide any calculations. All you say are things like, "The gravity assisted kick/slingshot nonsense was probably invented by some NASA science fiction writers in the 1950's not knowing much and is now taught at US universities as astrophysics. It is comical. Every time I meet astrophysicists, I ask about gravity assisted kicks. They cannot explain them!"

That's not a calculation showing how transferring orbits is impossible. It's you just saying so because someone won't answer your questions or return your calls and you're not an astrophysicist - Because they know they are obviously dealing with someone who has crackpot conspiracy notions. Why bother.

Unless you have some calculations showing how the presented calculations are wrong, you have no challenge. No calculations, no challenge. Your opinions do not amount to a challenge.

Do the calculations and let us know when you actually have a challenge. In the mean time, none exists.
But I do at my webpage - link provided above:

Planet Earth has tangential velocity U = 29 900 m/s in circular orbit around the Sun. It means Earth moves 29 900 m left every second in the little sketch left. At the same time it turns 360į in a year = one orbit around the Sun.

The spacecraft has tangential velocity v = 10 000 m/s in the opposite head-on direction (also in orbit around Sun or Earth or what?). It means the spacecraft moves 10 000 m every second in the opposite direction, i.e. top right in the sketch left.


You can read the end at my webpage and why Gravity Assisted Kicks are nonsense.

That is not a calculation and there's nothing on your site resembling any sort of calculations. Just speculation and opinion, which doesn't cut it for a challenge. Where is the transfer insertion formula/calculation broken in the example provided that makes changing orbits impossible? No calculations, no challenge. It's as simple as that. Unless of course someone could win your challenge by getting one of the scientists you contacted to call you back. That seems to be the only real criteria for success at the moment. Everything else is just you saying "It's impossible..." which doesn't really mean anything. No challenge exists.
Sorry, you are 100% wrong. My website is 100% correct.

Further evidence you don't have a challenge. All you're doing is saying, "I'm 100% right," without providing anything to back that up. Just saying so doesn't make a challenge because there's no way to challenge something when it starts off with and ends with, "I'm 100% right," with nothing in between. The only way is for someone to say, "No, I'm 100% right." That's not a challenge. Sorry.

You don't have any method to refute the calculations so you just say they are wrong. Wrong how? Specifically. If you can't do that, you have nothing other than just stomping your feet and yelling, "Wrong, wrong, wrong." And that literally amounts to nothing. Your challenge does not exist.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 30, 2020, 03:20:37 AM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on September 30, 2020, 03:38:04 AM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.

Who said it was top secret? You keep running around saying any and all information can't be found and in about 30 seconds, we find the information. You're either terrible at searching the web or lying, or both.

Again, you're just ranting with no evidence, calculations, nothing. Which means you have no challenge. And that's fine. We all know the challenge doesn't really exist except inside your head. It's just fun to see you stomp all over the place ranting and raving about how scientists won't return your calls, talking about some Russian doll spy you met in a bar, and how it's impossible to urinate in space. It's entertaining at a minimum. But obviously utter folly. But don't stop. There's nothing like seeing a conspiracy theorist attempt to unwind the sand castle they have made.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 30, 2020, 07:05:19 AM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.
How they're planning on doing it isn't a secret,  It's just beyond your comprehension.  A big difference that you don't seem to understand either.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 30, 2020, 09:53:42 AM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.
How they're planning on doing it isn't a secret,  It's just beyond your comprehension.  A big difference that you don't seem to understand either.
Please - just visit NASA's Artemis 1, 2, 3 webpages and you'll understand everything is just fantasy. An Apollo 11 re-write! It will be interesting to see how Hollywood will fake it.
Topic here is what an orbit is. It seems you don't know it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 30, 2020, 10:22:02 AM
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 30, 2020, 10:39:30 AM
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
You never asked! But now NASA Artemis will explain all about orbits ending with an American superwoman/asstronuttie arriving on the Moon 2024. She must change orbits several times to arrive on the Moon and do more orbit changes to return to Earth and the Pacific outside SD waters and Hollywood a little more north.  Why don't you ask her?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 30, 2020, 10:45:44 AM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.
How they're planning on doing it isn't a secret,  It's just beyond your comprehension.  A big difference that you don't seem to understand either.
Please - just visit NASA's Artemis 1, 2, 3 webpages and you'll understand everything is just fantasy. An Apollo 11 re-write! It will be interesting to see how Hollywood will fake it.
Topic here is what an orbit is. It seems you don't know it.

Mmmm... lots of top secret info on their website.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on September 30, 2020, 10:58:56 AM
Topic here is what an orbit is. It seems you don't know it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 30, 2020, 11:31:44 AM
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
You never asked! But now NASA Artemis will explain all about orbits ending with an American superwoman/asstronuttie arriving on the Moon 2024. She must change orbits several times to arrive on the Moon and do more orbit changes to return to Earth and the Pacific outside SD waters and Hollywood a little more north.  Why don't you ask her?

Why would I ask someone in NASA about navigating on the sea, when I have Heiwa, Expert in Safety at Sea, right here?

Why don't you just answer the question?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 30, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
You never asked! But now NASA Artemis will explain all about orbits ending with an American superwoman/asstronuttie arriving on the Moon 2024. She must change orbits several times to arrive on the Moon and do more orbit changes to return to Earth and the Pacific outside SD waters and Hollywood a little more north.  Why don't you ask her?

Why would I ask someone in NASA about navigating on the sea, when I have Heiwa, Expert in Safety at Sea, right here?

Why don't you just answer the question?
Because NASA Artemis will explain all about orbits ending with an American superwoman/asstronuttie arriving on the Moon 2024.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Code-Beta1234 on September 30, 2020, 12:23:24 PM
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
You never asked! But now NASA Artemis will explain all about orbits ending with an American superwoman/asstronuttie arriving on the Moon 2024. She must change orbits several times to arrive on the Moon and do more orbit changes to return to Earth and the Pacific outside SD waters and Hollywood a little more north.  Why don't you ask her?

Why would I ask someone in NASA about navigating on the sea, when I have Heiwa, Expert in Safety at Sea, right here?

Why don't you just answer the question?
Because NASA Artemis will explain all about orbits ending with an American superwoman/asstronuttie arriving on the Moon 2024.

You don't need to wait untill 2024. Just play KSP. You can buy it with your 1 00 000 £ .

This can help :)

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 30, 2020, 12:31:41 PM
I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on September 30, 2020, 01:00:01 PM

You don't need to wait untill 2024. Just play KSP. You can buy it with your 1 00 000 £ .

This can help :)



Thatís a very good suggestion for anyone genuinely interested in how it works.

Obviously not for Heiwa though, who only wants to peddle his shitty conspiracy website.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on September 30, 2020, 04:44:01 PM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.
How they're planning on doing it isn't a secret,  It's just beyond your comprehension.  A big difference that you don't seem to understand either.
Please - just visit NASA's Artemis 1, 2, 3 webpages and you'll understand everything is just fantasy. An Apollo 11 re-write! It will be interesting to see how Hollywood will fake it.
Topic here is what an orbit is. It seems you don't know it.

Translation: I don't understand it so it must be fake! And I'll accuse others of not understanding it when I really have no clue.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on September 30, 2020, 11:31:45 PM
All questions about orbits will soon be clarified by NASA and its Artemis mission - to put a woman on the Moon 2024! The planning started already 2011 and potus Trump approved more money 2017. So far US$ 18 000 millions have been spent. NASA says that a spacecraft Orion with four persons aboard will take off from Earth and then start orbiting the Moon and finally shall Orion land on the Moon and disembark the woman. How it will be done - jumping from one orbit to another and finally land on the Moon - is top secret.
How they're planning on doing it isn't a secret,  It's just beyond your comprehension.  A big difference that you don't seem to understand either.
Please - just visit NASA's Artemis 1, 2, 3 webpages and you'll understand everything is just fantasy. An Apollo 11 re-write! It will be interesting to see how Hollywood will fake it.
Topic here is what an orbit is. It seems you don't know it.

Translation: I don't understand it so it must be fake! And I'll accuse others of not understanding it when I really have no clue.
Let's wait until 2024 when NASA will put an American (super) woman on the Moon after a trip in various orbits using a new super rocket to get the spacecraft off the ground on Earth. The spacecraft will then start orbit the Moon and two persons in it will use a second spacecraft to land on the South Pole of the Moon (to look for water and ice). Etc, etc.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 01, 2020, 03:36:02 PM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Shifter on October 01, 2020, 04:03:15 PM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.

I'm still waiting for you half wits to grow a brain and realise Heiwa is beyond teaching anything. You actually think you'll get through to this old fossil?

His brain has like 1kb of storage. It's full. Not only can he not learn anything more, even if you wiped his brain and then started fresh he simply couldn't learn anything.

He's also a product of the Swedish education system. There's only so much you can do.

Ask him what happens if an asteroid hit your house. Go on.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 01, 2020, 05:09:57 PM
Let's look at the Sept. 21, 2020, NASA (bullshit) RELEASE 20-092 i.e.

NASA Publishes Artemis Plan to Land First Woman, Next Man on Moon in 2024

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-publishes-artemis-plan-to-land-first-woman-next-man-on-moon-in-2024/

With the Artemis III program, NASA will land the first woman and next man on the Moon by 2024, using innovative technologies to explore more of the lunar surface than ever before.

It is very simple (and expensive)! A US Space Launch System (SLS) rocket will then send an Interim Cryogenic Propulsion Stage (ICPS) rocket with an Orion four crew space craft, an European built Service Module (SM) rocket and a Human Landing System (HLS) rocket into low Earth orbit.

In that orbit the ICPS rocket will fired for 20 minutes which sends the Orion space craft, SM and HLS towards the Moon. Approaching the Moon after four days the SM rocket is fired, so Orion, SM and HLS start to orbit the Moon. Imagine that!

In Moon orbit two crew incl. a woman enters the HLS that undocks from Orion and lands on the Moon South Pole. After a week on the Moon looking for water and ice the HLS takes off from the Moon and docks with the Orion in orbit above. There the SM rocket is fired, so Orion space craft leaves Moon orbit and enters an Earth orbit dropping down on Earth. After four days of Orion dropping free fall back on Earth the speed is >11 km/s and Orion enters the Earth atmosphere, friction of which slows down Orion to 0.1 km/s speed in 10-15 minutes, so that parachutes can be deployed. Orion then splashes into the Pacific Ocean outside San Diego, where a US Navy ship can lift Orion on its deck.

It is fantastic, expensive and very simple. It will be done 2024! I will then lose my Ä1M Challenge about human space travel, if NASA can explain all orbit changes and fuel consumed, etc. It sounds like a 1969 Apollo 11 Hollywood re-play, though.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 01, 2020, 06:10:29 PM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.

I'm still waiting for you half wits to grow a brain and realise Heiwa is beyond teaching anything. You actually think you'll get through to this old fossil?

His brain has like 1kb of storage. It's full. Not only can he not learn anything more, even if you wiped his brain and then started fresh he simply couldn't learn anything.

He's also a product of the Swedish education system. There's only so much you can do.

Ask him what happens if an asteroid hit your house. Go on.

I'm not asking him to learn anything new.  He claims he is an expert at safety at sea.  Someone with expertise of the sea can surely tell me how to perform the scenario presented.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 01, 2020, 08:52:31 PM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
Ask any Master Mariner or sea captain about navigation at sea between ports. My biz is the safety of the ship itself and I am happy to note that my website had >18 000 visitors the last four days about it! Some clowns are suggesting that a passenger  ship (not mine) sank due to a collision with a submarine 1994, while I have other ideas. That ship shouldn't have been at sea at all. Various governments suggest that the bow visor of the ship dropped off, so it sank, which is another lie or disinformation. Same governments suggest that the principle of Archimedes is not valid any longer, etc, etc. It is another Challenge of mine.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 02, 2020, 06:22:15 AM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
Ask any Master Mariner or sea captain about navigation at sea between ports. My biz is the safety of the ship itself and I am happy to note that my website had >18 000 visitors the last four days about it! Some clowns are suggesting that a passenger  ship (not mine) sank due to a collision with a submarine 1994, while I have other ideas. That ship shouldn't have been at sea at all. Various governments suggest that the bow visor of the ship dropped off, so it sank, which is another lie or disinformation. Same governments suggest that the principle of Archimedes is not valid any longer, etc, etc. It is another Challenge of mine.

Are you saying that to be an expert at safety of the ship, that you don't need to know how to navigate a ship?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 02, 2020, 07:46:34 AM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
Ask any Master Mariner or sea captain about navigation at sea between ports. My biz is the safety of the ship itself and I am happy to note that my website had >18 000 visitors the last four days about it! Some clowns are suggesting that a passenger  ship (not mine) sank due to a collision with a submarine 1994, while I have other ideas. That ship shouldn't have been at sea at all. Various governments suggest that the bow visor of the ship dropped off, so it sank, which is another lie or disinformation. Same governments suggest that the principle of Archimedes is not valid any longer, etc, etc. It is another Challenge of mine.
o

Are you saying that to be an expert at safety of the ship, that you don't need to know how to navigate a ship?
No, I know how to navigate ships on Earth 2D oceans but topic is orbits in space or how to change orbits in space. IMO, if you are in an orbit in space ... you cannot change it ... in space. No way. It is nothing to get upset about. It is basic space travel.
Say you are somewhere, say location A in 3D space orbiting something. And you want to go to loction B in 3D space and orbit something else.
How do you do it?
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 02, 2020, 08:54:04 AM

I'm still waiting for you to explain how you traverse between two ships that are circling an island at different distances and different rates of speed and neither ships will slowdown or stop for you to embark/disembark.
Ask any Master Mariner or sea captain about navigation at sea between ports. My biz is the safety of the ship itself and I am happy to note that my website had >18 000 visitors the last four days about it! Some clowns are suggesting that a passenger  ship (not mine) sank due to a collision with a submarine 1994, while I have other ideas. That ship shouldn't have been at sea at all. Various governments suggest that the bow visor of the ship dropped off, so it sank, which is another lie or disinformation. Same governments suggest that the principle of Archimedes is not valid any longer, etc, etc. It is another Challenge of mine.
o

Are you saying that to be an expert at safety of the ship, that you don't need to know how to navigate a ship?
No, I know how to navigate ships on Earth 2D oceans but topic is orbits in space or how to change orbits in space. IMO, if you are in an orbit in space ... you cannot change it ... in space. No way. It is nothing to get upset about. It is basic space travel.
Say you are somewhere, say location A in 3D space orbiting something. And you want to go to loction B in 3D space and orbit something else.
How do you do it?
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.

Half Answer.  As long as your destination is on the same spatial plane, the navigation is 2D.

Since you insist that navigation on the sea is only 2D, explain how you Navigate the Panama Canal on a ship.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 02, 2020, 09:34:30 AM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 02, 2020, 09:49:07 AM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target. I remember this discussion around 1959. Nobody had an answer.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 02, 2020, 09:53:19 AM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 02, 2020, 10:45:40 AM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target. I remember this discussion around 1959. Nobody had an answer.

I guess if there's no answer for something 1959 that makes it impossible forever. There also wasn't an answer for powered flight in 1902 and many thought it was impossible. Go figure. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 02, 2020, 11:16:50 AM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 02, 2020, 12:25:22 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?

Feel free to download this one yourself:

https://qz.com/726338/the-code-that-took-america-to-the-moon-was-just-published-to-github-and-its-like-a-1960s-time-capsule/
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 02, 2020, 02:32:32 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
What about the software?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 02, 2020, 07:38:44 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
What about the software?
It doesn't exist!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 02, 2020, 07:47:49 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
What about the software?
It doesn't exist!
Why wouldn't it exist?  Are you an expert in rocket guidance software too?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 02, 2020, 08:54:40 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
What about the software?
It doesn't exist!

How so and proof of what?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 02, 2020, 10:53:56 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
What about the software?
It doesn't exist!
Why wouldn't it exist?  Are you an expert in rocket guidance software too?
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Arianespace can only calculate how to go from low altitude to high altitude in an orbit around Earth ... and that's all.
NASA's Artemis team should be able to provide the missing info, as they will put a woman on the Moon 2024. This woman must change orbits several times during a trip to the Moon.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 01:44:58 AM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Arianespace can only calculate how to go from low altitude to high altitude in an orbit around Earth ... and that's all.
NASA's Artemis team should be able to provide the missing info, as they will put a woman on the Moon 2024. This woman must change orbits several times during a trip to the Moon.

Arianespace are a commercial launch company selling their services to companies wanting to launch commercial satellites.  There are currently no commercial applications for trips to the moon or other planets, so unsurprisingly Arianespace donít waste their time talking about it.

How can you possibly be so bad at this? 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 03:26:10 AM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Arianespace can only calculate how to go from low altitude to high altitude in an orbit around Earth ... and that's all.
NASA's Artemis team should be able to provide the missing info, as they will put a woman on the Moon 2024. This woman must change orbits several times during a trip to the Moon.

Arianespace are a commercial launch company selling their services to companies wanting to launch commercial satellites.  There are currently no commercial applications for trips to the moon or other planets, so unsurprisingly Arianespace donít waste their time talking about it.

How can you possibly be so bad at this?
?? In a way I am a shareholder of Arianespace, that keeps me informed of all their satellite launches into Earth orbits. It is the only thing Arianespace, does. Earth orbits. Arianespace has, e.g. sent an ESA spacecraft into LEO and ... do you believe it??? ... ESA's spacecraft left LEO to visit an assteroid orbiting the Sun. And has arrived there, orbiting it and landed on it and is now returning to land on Earth. But it is the ESA staff that does that bullshit. http://www.heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 05:17:43 AM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Arianespace can only calculate how to go from low altitude to high altitude in an orbit around Earth ... and that's all.
NASA's Artemis team should be able to provide the missing info, as they will put a woman on the Moon 2024. This woman must change orbits several times during a trip to the Moon.

Arianespace are a commercial launch company selling their services to companies wanting to launch commercial satellites.  There are currently no commercial applications for trips to the moon or other planets, so unsurprisingly Arianespace donít waste their time talking about it.

How can you possibly be so bad at this?
?? In a way I am a shareholder of Arianespace, that keeps me informed of all their satellite launches into Earth orbits. It is the only thing Arianespace, does. Earth orbits. Arianespace has, e.g. sent an ESA spacecraft into LEO and ... do you believe it??? ... ESA's spacecraft left LEO to visit an assteroid orbiting the Sun. And has arrived there, orbiting it and landed on it and is now returning to land on Earth. But it is the ESA staff that does that bullshit. http://www.heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm

I take it back.  They do launch scientific missions.

I guess you missed this one, for instance:

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/VA245-launchkit-EN.pdf
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 06:22:06 AM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Arianespace can only calculate how to go from low altitude to high altitude in an orbit around Earth ... and that's all.
NASA's Artemis team should be able to provide the missing info, as they will put a woman on the Moon 2024. This woman must change orbits several times during a trip to the Moon.

Arianespace are a commercial launch company selling their services to companies wanting to launch commercial satellites.  There are currently no commercial applications for trips to the moon or other planets, so unsurprisingly Arianespace donít waste their time talking about it.

How can you possibly be so bad at this?
?? In a way I am a shareholder of Arianespace, that keeps me informed of all their satellite launches into Earth orbits. It is the only thing Arianespace, does. Earth orbits. Arianespace has, e.g. sent an ESA spacecraft into LEO and ... do you believe it??? ... ESA's spacecraft left LEO to visit an assteroid orbiting the Sun. And has arrived there, orbiting it and landed on it and is now returning to land on Earth. But it is the ESA staff that does that bullshit. http://www.heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm

I take it back.  They do launch scientific missions.

I guess you missed this one, for instance:

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/VA245-launchkit-EN.pdf

No, ESA and JAXA are same bullshit. They asked Arianespace to put their spacecrafts in LEO and then ... magic the ESA/JAXA spacecrafts took off for deep space. Pure bullshit. Quote me.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 08:31:02 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 11:51:10 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 03, 2020, 12:00:02 PM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
And he searched for 5 whole seconds too!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 03, 2020, 12:28:57 PM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
And he searched for 5 whole seconds too!

The only searching Heiwa does is on his website.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 12:50:12 PM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
And he searched for 5 whole seconds too!know

The only searching Heiwa does is on his website.
Well, the past week I have had >20 000 visitors at my site according to the counter. I know of course why. It has nothing to do with orbits. Just a trip from A to B at sea ending with >1000 people drowned.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 03, 2020, 01:06:33 PM
Fire a rocket? On a ship you change course by turning a rudder, etc. It works nice in 2D. But in space? Fire a rocket. ROTFL.
What's so funny about firing a rocket in space? ???
Well, it has to be done in the right place, time, direction and force in 3D space. If not you go off in the wrong direction and will never arrive at your target.
That's why spacecraft are computer controlled so that the burn happens at the right time, place, direction and force.
Yes, but what about the software?
What about the software?
It doesn't exist!
Why wouldn't it exist?  Are you an expert in rocket guidance software too?
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.

Apparently you haven't looked. https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:

Virtual Training - Apollo 11 Recreated Part 1
This virtual training series will show how we used STK to reconstruct the entire Apollo 11 mission, 50 years after the actual event. The three part series will cover liftoff from Kennedy Space Center through splashdown. You will learn how to use STK, specifically Astrogator, to model a mission to the moon.

The first part of this three-part Apollo 11 Recreation Series will cover:
-liftoff on July 16, 1969
-trans-lunar injection
-lunar orbit insertion
-lunar module separation on July 20, 1969


All the supporting documentation is included in the Description:

Materials needed for this training:

Training Manual:
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?v=QSBCFtyZxeA&event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fp.widencdn.net%2Fwhvkj9%2FRecreatingApollo&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa3Q1X3duZjV2TDE3ZXJ2YUp3YkQyeDU2LTk5UXxBQ3Jtc0ttRjFHUnc4VmtUOURGcjlRa1BGVy1xRENwcHBoektmQjZvZ0hOQ3VWREEyR3F6eXE4UmlGQmluYTFzNEZCcG9LLS1hYWVnRV9xbU9QakNRNDktMkVYeHBZajh4UjJza2NySHAweDA3aXgwazdSQTNncw%3D%3D

Apollo 11 Mission Report:
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?v=QSBCFtyZxeA&event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasa.gov%2Fspecials%2Fapollo50th%2Fpdf%2FA11_MissionReport.pdf&redir_token=QUFFLUhqblYweG9DQlBlWmw3OTZoUGl4REtqSjFCTklKd3xBQ3Jtc0tsM3NRbnlPbkZ6YTg3U3VzY0pjM0R2Q3R6TmRtSFREeVVZcTJFTU5DNTZKNXZVV3FoVFJYNThTYV9xbVlKXzJYSGZhOVVCZTFLTUE5VGwzZUU5VXZFVGJOMW9xUm42aG0yOTlibVI5Smw4LVZvUm5DNA%3D%3D

STK Scenario:
https://www.youtube.com/redirect?v=QSBCFtyZxeA&event=video_description&q=https%3A%2F%2Fsdf.agi.com%2Fshare%2Fpage%2Fdocument-details%3FnodeRef%3Dworkspace%3A%2F%2FSpacesStore%2F4ec9f636-4127-4dd6-a08b-ef84fd58d248&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa3BpS0xWcXZoMnFFTEdIYnMtclNfRFJJbkVvZ3xBQ3Jtc0trYndjX0hJNjBiQTB2VlJ4cjdPNzNfb3pzSzhKRVhaTVBDMXMyaGc0NU9BYUNqV05STEtMcVpYWGl1ZHo5aHhtY25kMjJISk9qUERBb0hMTnNRZUxWODdVOUl2ZS02a1d6MUhCblZ5NndPVDVDaUlYQQ%3D%3D
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 01:26:35 PM
Quote from: “Arianespace”

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar system’s smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since you’ve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 01:46:54 PM

Well, the past week I have had >20 000 visitors at my site according to the counter. I know of course why. It has nothing to do with orbits. Just a trip from A to B at sea ending with >1000 people drowned.

WTF?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 03, 2020, 03:58:08 PM

Well, the past week I have had >20 000 visitors at my site according to the counter. I know of course why. It has nothing to do with orbits. Just a trip from A to B at sea ending with >1000 people drowned.

WTF?

Nothing to WTF about.  The counter probably includes the hundreds of bots out there.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 03, 2020, 04:17:07 PM

Well, the past week I have had >20 000 visitors at my site according to the counter. I know of course why. It has nothing to do with orbits. Just a trip from A to B at sea ending with >1000 people drowned.

WTF?

Nothing to WTF about.  The counter probably includes the hundreds of bots out there.

Bot-errific, no doubt. Counters haven't been a measure of relevant or valuable web traffic since about 1996. Figures Heiwa would think it actually means something.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 09:01:42 PM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 03, 2020, 09:41:11 PM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Did you look here? https://github.com/chrislgarry/Apollo-11
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 10:31:50 PM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 10:53:18 PM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 03, 2020, 10:56:40 PM
I haven't found any software to calculate space trips between an Earth orbit and a Moon orbit, i.e. starting in one low altitude orbit around Earth, modify it to reach the Moon and then jump into an orbit around the Moon.
Did you look here? https://github.com/chrislgarry/Apollo-11
No. Looks like a mess.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/nassp/ is another one. Try to use it to fly in the Universe!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 03, 2020, 11:28:19 PM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.

Ah, so the problem is you canít read?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 04, 2020, 12:20:35 AM

Well, the past week I have had >20 000 visitors at my site according to the counter. I know of course why. It has nothing to do with orbits. Just a trip from A to B at sea ending with >1000 people drowned.

WTF?

Nothing to WTF about.  The counter probably includes the hundreds of bots out there.

Iím WTFing about whatever the link is between hits on his website and a thousand dead people.

Is Heiwa gloating that each human life lost netted him 20 clicks?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 03:03:01 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.

Ah, so the problem is you canít read?
No, the problem is the NASA bullshit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 04, 2020, 04:41:00 AM
Quote from: “Arianespace”

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar system’s smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since you’ve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.

Ah, so the problem is you can’t read?
No, the problem is the NASA bullshit.

And Arianespace, and everyone else who understands basic physics.

So are Arianespace lying?  Yes or no?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 05:19:13 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.

Ah, so the problem is you canít read?
No, the problem is the NASA bullshit.

And Arianespace, and everyone else who understands basic physics.

So are Arianespace lying?  Yes or no?
No, Arianespace is putting real satellites in orbits around Earth only?
NASA's Moon trips are pure bullshit.
Do you understand the difference?
Arianespace knows about orbits. NASA doesn't.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 04, 2020, 05:32:30 AM
Quote from: “Arianespace”

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar system’s smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since you’ve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.

Ah, so the problem is you can’t read?
No, the problem is the NASA bullshit.

And Arianespace, and everyone else who understands basic physics.

So are Arianespace lying?  Yes or no?
No, Arianespace is putting real satellites in orbits around Earth only?
NASA's Moon trips are pure bullshit.
Do you understand the difference?
Arianespace knows about orbits. NASA doesn't.

So when Arianespace say they put a spacecraft on a trajectory for another planet, that means you are wrong.

Thank you.  Glad we finally cleared that up.

Let’s have it again shall we?

Quote from: “Arianespace”
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury.

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/VA245-launchkit-EN.pdf
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 06:58:12 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ

TARGETED EARTH ESCAPE ORBIT

Quote
For its seventh launch of the year, Arianespace will use an Ariane 5 ECA from the Guiana Space Center (CSG), to send the BepiColombo spacecraft on its way to the solar systemís smallest and least-explored terrestrial planet: Mercury.

Quote
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury. BepiColombo will travel through space for seven years and be captured by Mercurian gravity before conducting a one-year scientific
operation.

Bad luck, liar.
No, Arianespace only puts clients spacecrafts in Earth orbits. Nothing else is possible. Only NASA, ESA, JAXA and the Russians say they can leave Earth orbits to explore the Universe. But they are all pseudo scientists ŗ la Lyssenko. Old bullshit!

As demonstrated, Arianespace says otherwise.  Which is very funny since youíve been presenting them as a fully respectable space launch company from which you as a highly valued shareholder get personal updates on their progress.

How are you going to try to rescue your train wreck of an argument without directly contracting yourself?
Well, good news today are of course NASA that is going to put an American woman on the Moon South Pole 2024 (the Artemis mission) after plenty orbit changes. NASA should be able to explain all about orbits ... but I haven't found anyone there willing to do it.
They are busy developing a new rocket that can lift >40 tons into LEO to start the Moon trip, etc. Arianespace just puts <1 ton into LEO.

So are Arianespace filthy liars and part of the conspiracehhh or not?

No, Arianespace puts small satellites into one-way orbits around Earth since many years using various type rockets. It is the only thing they do. After that the owners of the satellites can communicate with it, etc. Of course some owner says that his satellite has left the original orbit and flown away to visit an asteroid (!) but it is so called bullshit.

Ah, so the problem is you canít read?
No, the problem is the NASA bullshit.

And Arianespace, and everyone else who understands basic physics.

So are Arianespace lying?  Yes or no?
No, Arianespace is putting real satellites in orbits around Earth only?
NASA's Moon trips are pure bullshit.
Do you understand the difference?
Arianespace knows about orbits. NASA doesn't.

So when Arianespace say they put a spacecraft on a trajectory for another planet, that means you are wrong.

Thank you.  Glad we finally cleared that up.

Letís have it again shall we?

Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury.

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/VA245-launchkit-EN.pdf

No. Arianespace just puts satellites and objects into orbits around Earth. They use rockets for it, e.g. Ariane 5. After that they hand over the object to the owner, e.g. ESA and JAXA that can do whatever the like with it. Arianespace has no staff or rockets that can move a satellite out of the original orbit. Suggest you ask ESA and JAXA how they do it!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 04, 2020, 09:09:44 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury.

Arianespace disagree.  Deal with it.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 09:15:29 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury.

Arianespace disagree.  Deal with it.
You are wrong. Arianespace put an ESA/JAXA satellite/object into orbit around Earth and after that the Ariane 5 rocket dropped back on Earth and the satellite continued on itself. I assume it is still orbiting Earth. Arianespace only sends objects into orbits around Earth.
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 04, 2020, 09:18:32 AM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 04, 2020, 09:22:26 AM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury.

Arianespace disagree.  Deal with it.
You are wrong. Arianespace put an ESA/JAXA satellite/object into orbit around Earth and after that the Ariane 5 rocket dropped back on Earth and the satellite continued on itself. I assume it is still orbiting Earth. Arianespace only sends objects into orbits around Earth.
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Iím just going by what Arianespace say.

You said they arenít lying about their capabilities, but here they are claiming they can send spacecraft towards Mercury.

So youíre either wrong or youíre wrong.  Youíve snookered yourself. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 04:05:52 PM
Quote from: ďArianespaceĒ
Ariane 5 will place the spacecraft into an Earth escape orbit to Mercury.

Arianespace disagree.  Deal with it.
You are wrong. Arianespace put an ESA/JAXA satellite/object into orbit around Earth and after that the Ariane 5 rocket dropped back on Earth and the satellite continued on itself. I assume it is still orbiting Earth. Arianespace only sends objects into orbits around Earth.
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Iím just going by what Arianespace say.

You said they arenít lying about their capabilities, but here they are claiming they can send spacecraft towards Mercury.

So youíre either wrong or youíre wrong.  Youíve snookered yourself.

No! Arianespace only puts the ESA/JAXA spacecraft in orbit using a rocket and then hands over it and the whole thing to ESA/JAXA staff. Of course no ESA/JAXA spacecraft can fly away anywhere to other planets or asteroids.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 04:13:44 PM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 04, 2020, 05:51:40 PM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.

You're wrong, it absolutely is considered in the software. Starting around the 13 minute mark in the video simulation set-up, they are plugging in the all of the parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated. It's all in there.
What do you think, when we launch a satellite we just pump it up into LEO somewhere and let it orbit wherever the rocket runs out of fuel? That's all calculated through the ephemerides. Otherwise we'd have a LEO filled with space garbage as things are haphazardly bashing into other things because we have no idea where we put things in regard to earth's orbit. That's lunacy.

And yes, they knew precisely where they were after Trans Lunar Injection and actually performed a planned midcourse correction, again, based upon all of the parameters mentioned including the ephemerides of orbits and rotation of the two key bodies, Earth and Moon. You can see all those parameters programmed in around the 28 minute mark.

So no, you are completely wrong. Watch the video, it's all there with the supporting documentation already provided.

Now show us how your calculations prove this wrong. You have yet to do so other than saying, "It's hard to get from A to B." Until you do, you have no challenge.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 04, 2020, 06:07:00 PM
Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.
Are you saying that the motions of the earth and moon are not well understood and predictable?  Are you saying that there is no way to determine your position in space based on observations of the earth, moon and various stars?  It still boggles my mind that a self proclaimed engineer and expert in so many fields has such a hard time understanding how manned space flight can work.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 07:51:59 PM
Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.
Are you saying that the motions of the earth and moon are not well understood and predictable?  Are you saying that there is no way to determine your position in space based on observations of the earth, moon and various stars?  It still boggles my mind that a self proclaimed engineer and expert in so many fields has such a hard time understanding how manned space flight can work.
No, I just suggest that the agi software to predict trajectories of trips in 3D space do not consider that Earth rotates and that the Moon orbits Earth, etc. Travel between moving start and end points in space must consider it. Furthermore, in my opinion no spacecraft can leave one orbit and enter another orbit in space (topic), or in this case leave an Earth gravity orbit to enter a new Moon gravity orbit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 08:02:42 PM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.

You're wrong, it absolutely is considered in the software. Starting around the 13 minute mark in the video simulation set-up, they are plugging in the all of the parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated. It's all in there.
What do you think, when we launch a satellite we just pump it up into LEO somewhere and let it orbit wherever the rocket runs out of fuel? That's all calculated through the ephemerides. Otherwise we'd have a LEO filled with space garbage as things are haphazardly bashing into other things because we have no idea where we put things in regard to earth's orbit. That's lunacy.

And yes, they knew precisely where they were after Trans Lunar Injection and actually performed a planned midcourse correction, again, based upon all of the parameters mentioned including the ephemerides of orbits and rotation of the two key bodies, Earth and Moon. You can see all those parameters programmed in around the 28 minute mark.

So no, you are completely wrong. Watch the video, it's all there with the supporting documentation already provided.

Now show us how your calculations prove this wrong. You have yet to do so other than saying, "It's hard to get from A to B." Until you do, you have no challenge.
Sorry! To win my Ä1M Challenge (another thread) you have to do the calculations of fuel used, etc. One person tried years ago using some software similar to the agi one but he got too heavy to lift off. As you may know NASA is planning a Moon trip 2024 (with a woman aboard) - the Artemis mission - but everything about it is on the planning and development stage. NASA doesn't even have a rocket to lift the 40 tons required for a quick trip to the Moon, and has no idea how to jump from one orbit around Earth to another around the Moon, and so on. It seems my Ä1M is safe.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 04, 2020, 08:04:14 PM
Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.
Are you saying that the motions of the earth and moon are not well understood and predictable?  Are you saying that there is no way to determine your position in space based on observations of the earth, moon and various stars?  It still boggles my mind that a self proclaimed engineer and expert in so many fields has such a hard time understanding how manned space flight can work.
No, I just suggest that the agi software to predict trajectories of trips in 3D space do not consider that Earth rotates and that the Moon orbits Earth, etc. Travel between moving start and end points in space must consider it.
Why would you suggest something as stupid as that?  Do you honestly think that people who write software to predict 3D trajectories in space is written by people who don't know who 3D trajectories in space work?

Furthermore, in my opinion no spacecraft can leave one orbit and enter another orbit in space (topic), or in this case leave an Earth gravity orbit to enter a new Moon gravity orbit.
Then it's a good thing that no one who has anything to do with any of those missions cares the slightest about your opinion.  Now if you had some evidence that that spacecraft can't leave earth orbit, then that would be a different story.  It's a real shame that you don't have any such evidence.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 04, 2020, 09:15:31 PM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.

You're wrong, it absolutely is considered in the software. Starting around the 13 minute mark in the video simulation set-up, they are plugging in the all of the parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated. It's all in there.
What do you think, when we launch a satellite we just pump it up into LEO somewhere and let it orbit wherever the rocket runs out of fuel? That's all calculated through the ephemerides. Otherwise we'd have a LEO filled with space garbage as things are haphazardly bashing into other things because we have no idea where we put things in regard to earth's orbit. That's lunacy.

And yes, they knew precisely where they were after Trans Lunar Injection and actually performed a planned midcourse correction, again, based upon all of the parameters mentioned including the ephemerides of orbits and rotation of the two key bodies, Earth and Moon. You can see all those parameters programmed in around the 28 minute mark.

So no, you are completely wrong. Watch the video, it's all there with the supporting documentation already provided.

Now show us how your calculations prove this wrong. You have yet to do so other than saying, "It's hard to get from A to B." Until you do, you have no challenge.
Sorry! To win my Ä1M Challenge (another thread) you have to do the calculations of fuel used, etc. One person tried years ago using some software similar to the agi one but he got too heavy to lift off. As you may know NASA is planning a Moon trip 2024 (with a woman aboard) - the Artemis mission - but everything about it is on the planning and development stage. NASA doesn't even have a rocket to lift the 40 tons required for a quick trip to the Moon, and has no idea how to jump from one orbit around Earth to another around the Moon, and so on. It seems my Ä1M is safe.

It has nothing to do with your "challenge" as you have no "challenge". It's just you saying, "No, impossible..." That's not a challenge. That's just bloviating based upon your own ignorance. Now if you have calculations to show that the simulation's parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated are incorrect, show us. But it's all there.

In the mean time, you have zero argument, zero challenge, accompanied by zero evidence. Sorry, all of your hyperbole around the issue of transferring orbits , etc., means nothing because you back it with nothing. Everyone can see that.

Calculations are required as proof. You've been provided them and you provide none in return. Not good enough. Show us what you have or don't bother. Your conspiratorial rantings mean nothing.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 04, 2020, 10:56:56 PM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.

You're wrong, it absolutely is considered in the software. Starting around the 13 minute mark in the video simulation set-up, they are plugging in the all of the parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated. It's all in there.
What do you think, when we launch a satellite we just pump it up into LEO somewhere and let it orbit wherever the rocket runs out of fuel? That's all calculated through the ephemerides. Otherwise we'd have a LEO filled with space garbage as things are haphazardly bashing into other things because we have no idea where we put things in regard to earth's orbit. That's lunacy.

And yes, they knew precisely where they were after Trans Lunar Injection and actually performed a planned midcourse correction, again, based upon all of the parameters mentioned including the ephemerides of orbits and rotation of the two key bodies, Earth and Moon. You can see all those parameters programmed in around the 28 minute mark.

So no, you are completely wrong. Watch the video, it's all there with the supporting documentation already provided.

Now show us how your calculations prove this wrong. You have yet to do so other than saying, "It's hard to get from A to B." Until you do, you have no challenge.
Sorry! To win my Ä1M Challenge (another thread) you have to do the calculations of fuel used, etc. One person tried years ago using some software similar to the agi one but he got too heavy to lift off. As you may know NASA is planning a Moon trip 2024 (with a woman aboard) - the Artemis mission - but everything about it is on the planning and development stage. NASA doesn't even have a rocket to lift the 40 tons required for a quick trip to the Moon, and has no idea how to jump from one orbit around Earth to another around the Moon, and so on. It seems my Ä1M is safe.

It has nothing to do with your "challenge" as you have no "challenge". It's just you saying, "No, impossible..." That's not a challenge. That's just bloviating based upon your own ignorance. Now if you have calculations to show that the simulation's parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated are incorrect, show us. But it's all there.

In the mean time, you have zero argument, zero challenge, accompanied by zero evidence. Sorry, all of your hyperbole around the issue of transferring orbits , etc., means nothing because you back it with nothing. Everyone can see that.

Calculations are required as proof. You've been provided them and you provide none in return. Not good enough. Show us what you have or don't bother. Your conspiratorial rantings mean nothing.
No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object. Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 04, 2020, 11:27:50 PM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.

You're wrong, it absolutely is considered in the software. Starting around the 13 minute mark in the video simulation set-up, they are plugging in the all of the parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated. It's all in there.
What do you think, when we launch a satellite we just pump it up into LEO somewhere and let it orbit wherever the rocket runs out of fuel? That's all calculated through the ephemerides. Otherwise we'd have a LEO filled with space garbage as things are haphazardly bashing into other things because we have no idea where we put things in regard to earth's orbit. That's lunacy.

And yes, they knew precisely where they were after Trans Lunar Injection and actually performed a planned midcourse correction, again, based upon all of the parameters mentioned including the ephemerides of orbits and rotation of the two key bodies, Earth and Moon. You can see all those parameters programmed in around the 28 minute mark.

So no, you are completely wrong. Watch the video, it's all there with the supporting documentation already provided.

Now show us how your calculations prove this wrong. You have yet to do so other than saying, "It's hard to get from A to B." Until you do, you have no challenge.
Sorry! To win my Ä1M Challenge (another thread) you have to do the calculations of fuel used, etc. One person tried years ago using some software similar to the agi one but he got too heavy to lift off. As you may know NASA is planning a Moon trip 2024 (with a woman aboard) - the Artemis mission - but everything about it is on the planning and development stage. NASA doesn't even have a rocket to lift the 40 tons required for a quick trip to the Moon, and has no idea how to jump from one orbit around Earth to another around the Moon, and so on. It seems my Ä1M is safe.

It has nothing to do with your "challenge" as you have no "challenge". It's just you saying, "No, impossible..." That's not a challenge. That's just bloviating based upon your own ignorance. Now if you have calculations to show that the simulation's parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated are incorrect, show us. But it's all there.

In the mean time, you have zero argument, zero challenge, accompanied by zero evidence. Sorry, all of your hyperbole around the issue of transferring orbits , etc., means nothing because you back it with nothing. Everyone can see that.

Calculations are required as proof. You've been provided them and you provide none in return. Not good enough. Show us what you have or don't bother. Your conspiratorial rantings mean nothing.
No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object. Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.

Like I said, just more you saying something doesn't work without any evidence. No calculations, no challenge, no nothing. Just saying, "But it is wrong!" achieves nothing and doesn't instill any confidence, just more conspiratorial rantings on your part.

Show us your calculations. All the calculations have been provided as to how it does work and you have yet to be able to refute them other than just stomping your feet. Face it, you have nothing for an argument. It's a sad way to end things, but that's where you are and everyone can see it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 05, 2020, 03:47:58 AM
Do you know how an orbit works (topic)?

Yes, it's all right here:

https://www.agi.com/products/odtk

AGI specializes in all aspects of aerospace simulations. They even have a complete simulation, including fuel burns, trajectories, everything regarding Apollo with orbit changes etc. Check them out.

Here's part one of Apollo 11 simulation where they plug in ALL of the data for an accurate simulation of the mission:



Let us know what your calculations say is wrong about it.

Well, the Earth rotates around itself while the Moon orbits the Earth, i.e. the start point B for lift off on Earth and the target B (the Moon - that also rotates a little) are moving all the time and it is not properly considered in the software. Same with the various locations for various burns modifying the orbit around Earth and start orbiting the Moon, i.e. you don't know where you are between A and B when they shall take place. Result? You will never arrive at B.

You're wrong, it absolutely is considered in the software. Starting around the 13 minute mark in the video simulation set-up, they are plugging in the all of the parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated. It's all in there.
What do you think, when we launch a satellite we just pump it up into LEO somewhere and let it orbit wherever the rocket runs out of fuel? That's all calculated through the ephemerides. Otherwise we'd have a LEO filled with space garbage as things are haphazardly bashing into other things because we have no idea where we put things in regard to earth's orbit. That's lunacy.

And yes, they knew precisely where they were after Trans Lunar Injection and actually performed a planned midcourse correction, again, based upon all of the parameters mentioned including the ephemerides of orbits and rotation of the two key bodies, Earth and Moon. You can see all those parameters programmed in around the 28 minute mark.

So no, you are completely wrong. Watch the video, it's all there with the supporting documentation already provided.

Now show us how your calculations prove this wrong. You have yet to do so other than saying, "It's hard to get from A to B." Until you do, you have no challenge.
Sorry! To win my Ä1M Challenge (another thread) you have to do the calculations of fuel used, etc. One person tried years ago using some software similar to the agi one but he got too heavy to lift off. As you may know NASA is planning a Moon trip 2024 (with a woman aboard) - the Artemis mission - but everything about it is on the planning and development stage. NASA doesn't even have a rocket to lift the 40 tons required for a quick trip to the Moon, and has no idea how to jump from one orbit around Earth to another around the Moon, and so on. It seems my Ä1M is safe.

It has nothing to do with your "challenge" as you have no "challenge". It's just you saying, "No, impossible..." That's not a challenge. That's just bloviating based upon your own ignorance. Now if you have calculations to show that the simulation's parameters required for each stage; fuel, velocity, burn rate/time, orbit and long/lat (location) and azimuth (trajectory), altitude (distance from the relevant referential body), time (when each burn event occurred and for how long) all based upon the orbit ephemerides calculated are incorrect, show us. But it's all there.

In the mean time, you have zero argument, zero challenge, accompanied by zero evidence. Sorry, all of your hyperbole around the issue of transferring orbits , etc., means nothing because you back it with nothing. Everyone can see that.

Calculations are required as proof. You've been provided them and you provide none in return. Not good enough. Show us what you have or don't bother. Your conspiratorial rantings mean nothing.
No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object. Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.

Like I said, just more you saying something doesn't work without any evidence. No calculations, no challenge, no nothing. Just saying, "But it is wrong!" achieves nothing and doesn't instill any confidence, just more conspiratorial rantings on your part.

Show us your calculations. All the calculations have been provided as to how it does work and you have yet to be able to refute them other than just stomping your feet. Face it, you have nothing for an argument. It's a sad way to end things, but that's where you are and everyone can see it.
No, you have simply to win my Ä1M Challenge at the top of this FE forum page to show I am wrong. You sound like a religious sect member asking me for evidence that God does not exist. I simply suggest at my site that there is no God and that the Universe has always existed, i.e. no creation, no BIG BANG nonsense, etc. I am quite happy with it. I have nothing against Jesus & Co. Jesus had his ideas 2000 years ago and got a great following incl. me for a while but ... today I consider Jesus just another clown in world history. The son of God. Please, give me a break. Here we discuss how orbits work! Back to topic.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 05, 2020, 09:32:33 AM
I'm still waiting on how you navigate between two ships on the sea when the ships are circling a set reference point at different distances and at different speeds?


Also if navigation on the sea is 2D, how do you Navigate the Panama Canal?

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 05, 2020, 10:38:05 AM

No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object.

Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.

If that was anything but some bollocks you pulled out of your arse, youíd have no problem pointing us to the calculations that show this.

Funny how itís always those who have nothing at all to back up their nonsense who cry ďreligionĒ about those who can provide the necessary information.

Youíve been given numerous links to documents, papers, tutorials, software, simulations, etc.  and youíve completely ignored them all in favour of ďIts impossible because I donít like it!Ē.


No, you have simply to win my Ä1M Challenge at the top of this FE forum page to show I am wrong. You sound like a religious sect member asking me for evidence that God does not exist. I simply suggest at my site that there is no God and that the Universe has always existed, i.e. no creation, no BIG BANG nonsense, etc. I am quite happy with it. I have nothing against Jesus & Co. Jesus had his ideas 2000 years ago and got a great following incl. me for a while but ... today I consider Jesus just another clown in world history. The son of God. Please, give me a break. Here we discuss how orbits work! Back to topic.

LOL.  You donít really think your fake challenge is relevant do you?  No one believes for a second youíd consider paying a penny even if you did have the money.

You canít even bring yourself to look at links that show youĎre wrong when thereís no money at stake.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 05, 2020, 11:22:58 AM
I'm still waiting on how you navigate between two ships on the sea when the ships are circling a set reference point at different distances and at different speeds?


Also if navigation on the sea is 2D, how do you Navigate the Panama Canal?

In the Panama Canal you follow the pilot's instructions.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 05, 2020, 11:31:27 AM

No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object.

Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.

If that was anything but some bollocks you pulled out of your arse, youíd have no problem pointing us to the calculations that show this.

Funny how itís always those who have nothing at all to back up their nonsense who cry ďreligionĒ about those who can provide the necessary information.

Youíve been given numerous links to documents, papers, tutorials, software, simulations, etc.  and youíve completely ignored them all in favour of ďIts impossible because I donít like it!Ē.


No, you have simply to win my Ä1M Challenge at the top of this FE forum page to show I am wrong. You sound like a religious sect member asking me for evidence that God does not exist. I simply suggest at my site that there is no God and that the Universe has always existed, i.e. no creation, no BIG BANG nonsense, etc. I am quite happy with it. I have nothing against Jesus & Co. Jesus had his ideas 2000 years ago and got a great following incl. me for a while but ... today I consider Jesus just another clown in world history. The son of God. Please, give me a break. Here we discuss how orbits work! Back to topic.

LOL.  You donít really think your fake challenge is relevant do you?  No one believes for a second youíd consider paying a penny even if you did have the money.

You canít even bring yourself to look at links that show youĎre wrong when thereís no money at stake.

It seems you don't know what an orbit is. Human spacecraft starting from Earth simply cannot navigate between celestial objects that orbit other celestial objects. Any spacecraft leaving Earth will always orbit Earth. You cannot escape Earth's gravity. You can take off in any direction from Earth but you will always orbit Earth thanks to Earth's gravity. You cannot start orbiting the Sun, the Moon or some other planet when you are orbiting Earth.
The proof is in the pudding. The NASA Artemis mission shall put a woman on the Moon 2024 after several orbits. But NASA cannot explain how!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 05, 2020, 11:34:49 AM
I'm still waiting on how you navigate between two ships on the sea when the ships are circling a set reference point at different distances and at different speeds?


Also if navigation on the sea is 2D, how do you Navigate the Panama Canal?

In the Panama Canal you follow the pilot's instructions.

Stop deflected.  For someone who is an expert at the sea, you sure don't want to answer any sea related questions with real answers.  I think you are a phony posing as Anders.

If you navigate in only 2D, you wouldn't be able to navigate the Canal regardless of the pilot's instructions. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 05, 2020, 11:44:22 AM

No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object.

Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.

If that was anything but some bollocks you pulled out of your arse, youíd have no problem pointing us to the calculations that show this.

Funny how itís always those who have nothing at all to back up their nonsense who cry ďreligionĒ about those who can provide the necessary information.

Youíve been given numerous links to documents, papers, tutorials, software, simulations, etc.  and youíve completely ignored them all in favour of ďIts impossible because I donít like it!Ē.


No, you have simply to win my Ä1M Challenge at the top of this FE forum page to show I am wrong. You sound like a religious sect member asking me for evidence that God does not exist. I simply suggest at my site that there is no God and that the Universe has always existed, i.e. no creation, no BIG BANG nonsense, etc. I am quite happy with it. I have nothing against Jesus & Co. Jesus had his ideas 2000 years ago and got a great following incl. me for a while but ... today I consider Jesus just another clown in world history. The son of God. Please, give me a break. Here we discuss how orbits work! Back to topic.

LOL.  You donít really think your fake challenge is relevant do you?  No one believes for a second youíd consider paying a penny even if you did have the money.

You canít even bring yourself to look at links that show youĎre wrong when thereís no money at stake.

It seems you don't know what an orbit is. Human spacecraft starting from Earth simply cannot navigate between celestial objects that orbit other celestial objects. Any spacecraft leaving Earth will always orbit Earth. You cannot escape Earth's gravity. You can take off in any direction from Earth but you will always orbit Earth thanks to Earth's gravity. You cannot start orbiting the Sun, the Moon or some other planet when you are orbiting Earth.
The proof is in the pudding. The NASA Artemis mission shall put a woman on the Moon 2024 after several orbits. But NASA cannot explain how!

Show us how the calculations provided are wrong. Otherwise, it's just you saying, "You can't do it..." Which means nothing.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 05, 2020, 11:58:50 AM

No, topic is not my ignorance but how an orbit in space works.  Objects orbit other objects in space. Planets orbit the Sun and moons orbit planets, etc. It works fine only when the gravity and dynamic forces of the objects are in equilibrium. An object cannot jump from one orbit to another. An object can only orbit one other object.

Of course some people believe that by applying a new force to an object in orbit, it will jump from one orbit to another! But it is wrong! You just change the shape of the orbit, when doing so.  There is no way out of an orbit, when you are in it, to end up in another orbit. Believers in unlimited space travel believe otherwise, but they are only members of religious sects believing in pseudoscience and such nonsense. You sound like one. The most tragic case is that these people think that, when in orbit, you can slow down by applying a braking force and land on the other object! The brake force is either created by a rocket and fuel carried along or by friction of an atmosphere of the other object, but it is just fantasy dreams of the sect. In both cases you will crash or burn up.

If that was anything but some bollocks you pulled out of your arse, youíd have no problem pointing us to the calculations that show this.

Funny how itís always those who have nothing at all to back up their nonsense who cry ďreligionĒ about those who can provide the necessary information.

Youíve been given numerous links to documents, papers, tutorials, software, simulations, etc.  and youíve completely ignored them all in favour of ďIts impossible because I donít like it!Ē.


No, you have simply to win my Ä1M Challenge at the top of this FE forum page to show I am wrong. You sound like a religious sect member asking me for evidence that God does not exist. I simply suggest at my site that there is no God and that the Universe has always existed, i.e. no creation, no BIG BANG nonsense, etc. I am quite happy with it. I have nothing against Jesus & Co. Jesus had his ideas 2000 years ago and got a great following incl. me for a while but ... today I consider Jesus just another clown in world history. The son of God. Please, give me a break. Here we discuss how orbits work! Back to topic.

LOL.  You donít really think your fake challenge is relevant do you?  No one believes for a second youíd consider paying a penny even if you did have the money.

You canít even bring yourself to look at links that show youĎre wrong when thereís no money at stake.

It seems you don't know what an orbit is. Human spacecraft starting from Earth simply cannot navigate between celestial objects that orbit other celestial objects. Any spacecraft leaving Earth will always orbit Earth. You cannot escape Earth's gravity. You can take off in any direction from Earth but you will always orbit Earth thanks to Earth's gravity. You cannot start orbiting the Sun, the Moon or some other planet when you are orbiting Earth.
The proof is in the pudding. The NASA Artemis mission shall put a woman on the Moon 2024 after several orbits. But NASA cannot explain how!

You sound more dense every time you repeat the same bollocks with nothing to back it up.

NASA explains how (links above), ESA explains how (links above), random people doing orbital mechanics for beginners videos on YouTube explain how (links above), Kerbal Space Program explains how (link above), and anyone with a passable knowledge of mechanics could explain how at least in principle.

Only you canít explain how.  Because you donít get it.  You are incapable of refuting any of the information provided to you, so you donít even look at it.

Keep wallowing in your physics denial.  Just like every other flat earther.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 05, 2020, 08:09:51 PM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet. I have never seen a planet changing orbit around the Sun. Question is if a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth can change its orbit and start orbiting, e.g. the Sun or the Moon or planet Mars.
It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result.
It is suggested that a spacecraft leave its orbit and land on the object it orbits by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion it is not possible. You are going to fast and cannot slow down. All calculations give the same result.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on October 06, 2020, 06:35:10 AM
ď It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result. Ē

And if the orbit were changed enough to meet the moon?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 06:41:58 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet.
Let's try this one step at a time.  Do you agree that as a spacecraft approaches the moon, the earth's gravitational influence on that spacecraft diminishes and the moon's gravitational influence increases?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 07:50:57 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet.
Let's try this one step at a time.  Do you agree that as a spacecraft approaches the moon, the earth's gravitational influence on that spacecraft diminishes and the moon's gravitational influence increases?
Do you suggest the Moon is stationary, when the spacecraft approaches?
The spacecraft orbits Earth at a certain speed/direction and the Moon orbits Earth at another speed/direction and, if their trajectories intersect and, if they are there at the same time, there is a collision.
Otherwise, both objects continue to orbit Earth in their different orbits.
Moon gravity may affect the spacecraft speed/direction a little when it passes the Moon trajectory but not much. The trajectory in orbit of the spacecraft is 100% governed by Earth gravity. So the spacecraft cannot suddenly leave Earth orbit to start orbiting the Moon.
This is one reason why nobody wins my Challenge, why the NASA Apollo bullshit was produced in Hollywood and why the NASA Artemis woman landing on the Moon 2024 is ... fantasy.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 07:58:59 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet.
Let's try this one step at a time.  Do you agree that as a spacecraft approaches the moon, the earth's gravitational influence on that spacecraft diminishes and the moon's gravitational influence increases?
Do you suggest the Moon is stationary, when the spacecraft approaches?
Are you suggesting that it's impossible to approach a moving target?  It's not hard to figure out that you need to aim where your target is going to be, not where it is.  It's commonly referred to as "leading the target".

Moon gravity may affect the spacecraft a little when it passes the Moon trajectory but not much. The trajectory in orbit of the spacecraft is 100% governed by Earth gravity.
So you're saying that the moon's gravitational influence on the spacecraft can never be stronger that the earth's gravitational influence, no matter how close it gets to the moon?  I think I see the source of some of your confusion.  Perhaps you should review your calculations concerning the gravitational influence of the earth and moon at various points between the two bodies.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 08:13:18 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet.
Let's try this one step at a time.  Do you agree that as a spacecraft approaches the moon, the earth's gravitational influence on that spacecraft diminishes and the moon's gravitational influence increases?
Do you suggest the Moon is stationary, when the spacecraft approaches?
Are you suggesting that it's impossible to approach a moving target?  It's not hard to figure out that you need to aim where your target is going to be, not where it is.  It's commonly referred to as "leading the target".

Moon gravity may affect the spacecraft a little when it passes the Moon trajectory but not much. The trajectory in orbit of the spacecraft is 100% governed by Earth gravity.
So you're saying that the moon's gravitational influence on the spacecraft can never be stronger that the earth's gravitational influence, no matter how close it gets to the moon?  I think I see the source of some of your confusion.  Perhaps you should review your calculations concerning the gravitational influence of the earth and moon at various points between the two bodies.

The Moon orbits Earth at quite high speed so it is not easy to approach it from the side in another direction for an encounter. It is like shooting down a high speed Russian ICBM  with some US anti ICBM missile, i.e. very difficult (actually impossible).
Say that the Moon has speed 1000 m/s in orbit around Earth in a known diection. So you aim for it but if you arrive a minute too late you miss it with 60 000 m and it is disappearing in another direction.  What do you do? Start chasing it? But you are in another Earth orbit going in another direction.
No, there is no chance to approach the high speed Moon and change your Earth orbit and start orbiting Moon.

Do you play tennis? Try to hit a moving tennis ball with another moving tennis ball.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 08:57:04 AM
The Moon orbits Earth at quite high speed so it is not easy to approach it from the side in another direction for an encounter.
Not easy, but not impossible if you're clever enough.

Say that the Moon has speed 1000 m/s in orbit around Earth in a known diection. So you aim for it but if you arrive a minute too late you miss it with 60 000 m and it is disappearing in another direction.  What do you do?
You carefully watch your trajectory as you go and perform mid-course correction burns as needed to make sure that you don't miss your target.

Do you play tennis? Try to hit a moving tennis ball with another moving tennis ball.
Have you ever heard of skeet shooting?  Shooters hit fast moving targets all the time.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 06, 2020, 10:18:43 AM
The Moon orbits Earth at quite high speed so it is not easy to approach it from the side in another direction for an encounter.
Not easy, but not impossible if you're clever enough.

Say that the Moon has speed 1000 m/s in orbit around Earth in a known diection. So you aim for it but if you arrive a minute too late you miss it with 60 000 m and it is disappearing in another direction.  What do you do?
You carefully watch your trajectory as you go and perform mid-course correction burns as needed to make sure that you don't miss your target.

Do you play tennis? Try to hit a moving tennis ball with another moving tennis ball.
Have you ever heard of skeet shooting?  Shooters hit fast moving targets all the time.

Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 10:21:15 AM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
To be fair, a lot of times they don't.  Then again, the moon doesn't turn and burn to avoid spacecraft either.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 06, 2020, 11:08:07 AM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
To be fair, a lot of times they don't.  Then again, the moon doesn't turn and burn to avoid spacecraft either.

It's not that they don't work.  They do, they just don't hit their intended target due to electronic countermeasures.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 06, 2020, 11:25:48 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet.
Let's try this one step at a time.  Do you agree that as a spacecraft approaches the moon, the earth's gravitational influence on that spacecraft diminishes and the moon's gravitational influence increases?
Do you suggest the Moon is stationary, when the spacecraft approaches?
Are you suggesting that it's impossible to approach a moving target?  It's not hard to figure out that you need to aim where your target is going to be, not where it is.  It's commonly referred to as "leading the target".

Moon gravity may affect the spacecraft a little when it passes the Moon trajectory but not much. The trajectory in orbit of the spacecraft is 100% governed by Earth gravity.
So you're saying that the moon's gravitational influence on the spacecraft can never be stronger that the earth's gravitational influence, no matter how close it gets to the moon?  I think I see the source of some of your confusion.  Perhaps you should review your calculations concerning the gravitational influence of the earth and moon at various points between the two bodies.
Perhaps he should actually DO the calculations. There is no indication on his site nor anywhere else that he has done them or understands them at all.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 06:14:51 PM
The Moon orbits Earth at quite high speed so it is not easy to approach it from the side in another direction for an encounter.
Not easy, but not impossible if you're clever enough.

Say that the Moon has speed 1000 m/s in orbit around Earth in a known diection. So you aim for it but if you arrive a minute too late you miss it with 60 000 m and it is disappearing in another direction.  What do you do?
You carefully watch your trajectory as you go and perform mid-course correction burns as needed to make sure that you don't miss your target.

Do you play tennis? Try to hit a moving tennis ball with another moving tennis ball.
Have you ever heard of skeet shooting?  Shooters hit fast moving targets all the time.

Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
They always miss an incoming ICBM at Mach 10.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 06:21:20 PM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
They always miss an incoming ICBM at Mach 10.
Incorrect.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/03/25/homeland-missile-defense-system-takes-out-icbm-threat-in-historic-salvo-test/


Also, the moon is a lot bigger target than an ICBM.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 06:22:14 PM
The Moon orbits Earth at quite high speed so it is not easy to approach it from the side in another direction for an encounter.
Not easy, but not impossible if you're clever enough.

Say that the Moon has speed 1000 m/s in orbit around Earth in a known diection. So you aim for it but if you arrive a minute too late you miss it with 60 000 m and it is disappearing in another direction.  What do you do?
You carefully watch your trajectory as you go and perform mid-course correction burns as needed to make sure that you don't miss your target.

Do you play tennis? Try to hit a moving tennis ball with another moving tennis ball.
Have you ever heard of skeet shooting?  Shooters hit fast moving targets all the time.
ROTFL - we discuss high speed orbits and shifting from one orbit to another and you compare it to skeet shooting. You don't know anything about orbits. But OK. Be on a fast going merry-go-round and try to hit someone on another fast going merry-go-round passing by. Don forget that both merry-go-round also move in various directions at different speeds. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 06:24:38 PM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
They always miss an incoming ICBM at Mach 10.
Incorrect.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/03/25/homeland-missile-defense-system-takes-out-icbm-threat-in-historic-salvo-test/


Also, the moon is a lot bigger target than an ICBM.
ROTFL - the missile starting from Earth is supposed to start orbiting the incoming ICBM orbiting Earth and not shooting it down.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 06:32:30 PM
Do you play tennis? Try to hit a moving tennis ball with another moving tennis ball.
Have you ever heard of skeet shooting?  Shooters hit fast moving targets all the time.
ROTFL - we discuss high speed orbits and shifting from one orbit to another and you compare it to skeet shooting. You don't know anything about orbits.
Well, you were trying to compare it to tennis, so what does that say about you?

But OK. Be on a fast going merry-go-round and try to hit someone on another fast going merry-go-round passing by. Don forget that both merry-go-round also move in various directions at different speeds.
*sigh*  Now you want to bring merry-go-rounds into it?  Why don't we skip the silly analogies and stick with you explaining why it's so hard to leave the gravitational influence of the earth and enter the gravitational influence of the moon?  Or don't you think that there is anywhere along the spacecraft's journey where the moon's gravitational influence is greater than the earth's?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 06, 2020, 06:35:33 PM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
They always miss an incoming ICBM at Mach 10.
Incorrect.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/03/25/homeland-missile-defense-system-takes-out-icbm-threat-in-historic-salvo-test/


Also, the moon is a lot bigger target than an ICBM.
ROTFL - the missile starting from Earth is supposed to start orbiting the incoming ICBM orbiting Earth and not shooting it down.
No, the missile starting from earth is supposed to hit and destroy the ICBM coming in on a ballistic trajectory.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 10:27:26 PM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
They always miss an incoming ICBM at Mach 10.
Incorrect.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/03/25/homeland-missile-defense-system-takes-out-icbm-threat-in-historic-salvo-test/


Also, the moon is a lot bigger target than an ICBM.
ROTFL - the missile starting from Earth is supposed to start orbiting the incoming ICBM orbiting Earth and not shooting it down.
No, the missile starting from earth is supposed to hit and destroy the ICBM coming in on a ballistic trajectory.
Yes, understand that but it doesn't work. The ICBM is going too fast (at variable speed) and the ground based missile(s) cannot touch it. It cannot calculate the location of a future collision. It's like going to the Moon. The Moon is going too fast in its orbit around Earth.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 06, 2020, 11:13:05 PM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet. I have never seen a planet changing orbit around the Sun. Question is if a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth can change its orbit and start orbiting, e.g. the Sun or the Moon or planet Mars.
It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result.
It is suggested that a spacecraft leave its orbit and land on the object it orbits by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion it is not possible. You are going to fast and cannot slow down. All calculations give the same result.

Precisely why you have no challenge. You can't have a challenge when all you have to say in response to anything is, "In my opinion..." with zero evidence or facts. What's the challenge?

And you say, "In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result." What calculations are you speaking of? What same result? Show us. You've been given plenty of calculations for everything you've ever asked for and your only response is "In my opinion..."

You have to show where the calculations are wrong in order to have a challenge and refute a challenger. Do you not get this?

Show us where the calculations are wrong, otherwise you have zero argument, zero challenge. Just your "opinion".
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 06, 2020, 11:46:05 PM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet. I have never seen a planet changing orbit around the Sun. Question is if a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth can change its orbit and start orbiting, e.g. the Sun or the Moon or planet Mars.
It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result.
It is suggested that a spacecraft leave its orbit and land on the object it orbits by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion it is not possible. You are going to fast and cannot slow down. All calculations give the same result.

Precisely why you have no challenge. You can't have a challenge when all you have to say in response to anything is, "In my opinion..." with zero evidence or facts. What's the challenge?

And you say, "In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result." What calculations are you speaking of? What same result? Show us. You've been given plenty of calculations for everything you've ever asked for and your only response is "In my opinion..."

You have to show where the calculations are wrong in order to have a challenge and refute a challenger. Do you not get this?

Show us where the calculations are wrong, otherwise you have zero argument, zero challenge. Just your "opinion".
I present plenty findings and evidence about my Challenge and orbits at my website. I consider changing orbits in space is not possible and that space travel from Earth to other celestial objects  in space doesn't work. I pay anyone Ä1M to show how to fly to the Moon and back. It is nothing to get upset about. Try to win the money instead.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 07, 2020, 12:46:50 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet. I have never seen a planet changing orbit around the Sun. Question is if a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth can change its orbit and start orbiting, e.g. the Sun or the Moon or planet Mars.
It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result.
It is suggested that a spacecraft leave its orbit and land on the object it orbits by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion it is not possible. You are going to fast and cannot slow down. All calculations give the same result.

Precisely why you have no challenge. You can't have a challenge when all you have to say in response to anything is, "In my opinion..." with zero evidence or facts. What's the challenge?

And you say, "In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result." What calculations are you speaking of? What same result? Show us. You've been given plenty of calculations for everything you've ever asked for and your only response is "In my opinion..."

You have to show where the calculations are wrong in order to have a challenge and refute a challenger. Do you not get this?

Show us where the calculations are wrong, otherwise you have zero argument, zero challenge. Just your "opinion".
I present plenty findings and evidence about my Challenge and orbits at my website. I consider changing orbits in space is not possible and that space travel from Earth to other celestial objects  in space doesn't work. I pay anyone Ä1M to show how to fly to the Moon and back. It is nothing to get upset about. Try to win the money instead.

Actually, you don't present findings and evidence about your Challenge and orbits at your website. There's nothing there. There are no calculations. It's just, "Your opinion..." That's not a challenge. The challenge is to provide you with data. Then you refute the data with your calculations as to why it doesn't work. On your site there are no calculations, no refutations other than, "A rocket scientist wouldn't call me back and answer my questions."

You have no challenge.

Show us how the calculations that have been presented are wrong and you have a challenge. In the mean time, just your "opinion" means nothing and means no challenge. How do you not get this? Are you that deluded that you think just your "opinion" is all that is required?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 07, 2020, 04:54:56 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet. I have never seen a planet changing orbit around the Sun. Question is if a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth can change its orbit and start orbiting, e.g. the Sun or the Moon or planet Mars.
It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result.
It is suggested that a spacecraft leave its orbit and land on the object it orbits by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion it is not possible. You are going to fast and cannot slow down. All calculations give the same result.

Precisely why you have no challenge. You can't have a challenge when all you have to say in response to anything is, "In my opinion..." with zero evidence or facts. What's the challenge?

And you say, "In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result." What calculations are you speaking of? What same result? Show us. You've been given plenty of calculations for everything you've ever asked for and your only response is "In my opinion..."

You have to show where the calculations are wrong in order to have a challenge and refute a challenger. Do you not get this?

Show us where the calculations are wrong, otherwise you have zero argument, zero challenge. Just your "opinion".
I present plenty findings and evidence about my Challenge and orbits at my website. I consider changing orbits in space is not possible and that space travel from Earth to other celestial objects  in space doesn't work. I pay anyone Ä1M to show how to fly to the Moon and back. It is nothing to get upset about. Try to win the money instead.

Actually, you don't present findings and evidence about your Challenge and orbits at your website. There's nothing there. There are no calculations. It's just, "Your opinion..." That's not a challenge. The challenge is to provide you with data. Then you refute the data with your calculations as to why it doesn't work. On your site there are no calculations, no refutations other than, "A rocket scientist wouldn't call me back and answer my questions."

You have no challenge.

Show us how the calculations that have been presented are wrong and you have a challenge. In the mean time, just your "opinion" means nothing and means no challenge. How do you not get this? Are you that deluded that you think just your "opinion" is all that is required?
?? Please study http://heiwaco.com/chall2.htm again! I list plenty clowns saying how easy space travel is and I have invited them all to win my Challenge and ... ? Nobody has managed it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 07, 2020, 05:14:02 AM
I just tell you what an orbit is! It is the gravitationally curved trajectory of an object, such as the trajectory of a planet around a star or a natural satellite around a planet. I have never seen a planet changing orbit around the Sun. Question is if a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth can change its orbit and start orbiting, e.g. the Sun or the Moon or planet Mars.
It is suggested that you can jump from one orbit (around Earth) to another (around the Moon) by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result.
It is suggested that a spacecraft leave its orbit and land on the object it orbits by applying a force to the spacecraft using a rocket.
In my opinion it is not possible. You are going to fast and cannot slow down. All calculations give the same result.

Precisely why you have no challenge. You can't have a challenge when all you have to say in response to anything is, "In my opinion..." with zero evidence or facts. What's the challenge?

And you say, "In my opinion the only result is that the shape of the orbit changes. All calculations give the same result." What calculations are you speaking of? What same result? Show us. You've been given plenty of calculations for everything you've ever asked for and your only response is "In my opinion..."

You have to show where the calculations are wrong in order to have a challenge and refute a challenger. Do you not get this?

Show us where the calculations are wrong, otherwise you have zero argument, zero challenge. Just your "opinion".
I present plenty findings and evidence about my Challenge and orbits at my website. I consider changing orbits in space is not possible and that space travel from Earth to other celestial objects  in space doesn't work. I pay anyone Ä1M to show how to fly to the Moon and back. It is nothing to get upset about. Try to win the money instead.

Actually, you don't present findings and evidence about your Challenge and orbits at your website. There's nothing there. There are no calculations. It's just, "Your opinion..." That's not a challenge. The challenge is to provide you with data. Then you refute the data with your calculations as to why it doesn't work. On your site there are no calculations, no refutations other than, "A rocket scientist wouldn't call me back and answer my questions."

You have no challenge.

Show us how the calculations that have been presented are wrong and you have a challenge. In the mean time, just your "opinion" means nothing and means no challenge. How do you not get this? Are you that deluded that you think just your "opinion" is all that is required?
?? Please study http://heiwaco.com/chall2.htm again! I list plenty clowns saying how easy space travel is and I have invited them all to win my Challenge and ... ? Nobody has managed it.

You just don't get it. You list "clowns" and all you have is that no one ever gets back to you. That is not a challenge. You've been provided all the data and calculations required over and over again, but you never properly refute them with your own showing how it's all wrong. All you do is say, "If you ask them, nobody replies," and "nobody in the association can explain how to explore space using a spacecraft and how much fuel is required," and "She and none of her students have managed to win my Challenge though! Call her +4698079187 and ask why!". What kind of lunacy is this? It's certainly not a challenge. It's people not returning the call of a conspiracy nut. That's all.

To have a challenge, you need to refute the data/calculations given with your calculations as to why it won't work. Complaining about people not partaking in your 'challenge' is meaningless, bizarre, at best.

So enough. Just admit that you have no challenge. When you come up with your calculations showing how wrong everyone else is that's where you have something. In the mean time, you just have a woefully outdated and poorly designed site filled with opinions and complaints and rants.

No calculations, no challenge. Period.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 07, 2020, 05:42:02 AM
Anders probably thinks that Air-to-Air and Surface-to-Air Missiles don't work.
They always miss an incoming ICBM at Mach 10.
Incorrect.
https://www.defensenews.com/land/2019/03/25/homeland-missile-defense-system-takes-out-icbm-threat-in-historic-salvo-test/


Also, the moon is a lot bigger target than an ICBM.
ROTFL - the missile starting from Earth is supposed to start orbiting the incoming ICBM orbiting Earth and not shooting it down.
No, the missile starting from earth is supposed to hit and destroy the ICBM coming in on a ballistic trajectory.
Yes, understand that but it doesn't work. The ICBM is going too fast (at variable speed) and the ground based missile(s) cannot touch it. It cannot calculate the location of a future collision. It's like going to the Moon. The Moon is going too fast in its orbit around Earth.


Anders doesn't understand intercept paths.
Anders doesn't understand it is a math formula.
Anders doesn't understand that as a math formula the speed of the target only matters in relation to reaction time from the point of detection.
Anders is retarded.

Phalanx CWIS  Developed in 1969 still in use today.


The technology to that is used within the US ABMs stemmed from this.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 07, 2020, 06:47:03 AM
Yes, understand that but it doesn't work. The ICBM is going too fast (at variable speed) and the ground based missile(s) cannot touch it. It cannot calculate the location of a future collision.
What makes you think that the ICBM is traveling at a variable speed?  Do you know anything about RADAR?  Ballistic trajectories are fairly easy to track and predict.  It's not as if an ICBM warhead can detect and maneuver to avoid an incoming guided missile.


It's like going to the Moon. The Moon is going too fast in its orbit around Earth.
The moon is not traveling at a variable speed, so it's pretty easy to predict exactly where it will be at pretty much any given moment.  That makes it a relatively easy target to hit, especially when you can corrrect your trajectory along the way if needed.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 07, 2020, 11:23:33 AM
I love this new argument that the moon is moving at such blistering speed it would be impossible to aim for. 

Heiwa, step outside at night and look at the moon.  Notice how fast it moves across the sky?  Now consider that most of that is due to the Earthís rotation.  What you see is 28x faster than the moon is moving in its orbit around the earth.

The moon orbits at about 1km per second.  It takes about an hour to move the equivalent of its diameter, and itís utterly predictable where itís going.

You compared to hitting a moving tennis ball with another tennis ball.  Sure, hitting a tennis ball moving at 5cm an hour.

I also note that doubting the accuracy of plotting a trajectory to the moon is a completely different argument to saying itís theoretically impossible.  You need to make up your mind what you think the problem is.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 07, 2020, 01:51:29 PM
I love this new argument that the moon is moving at such blistering speed it would be impossible to aim for. 

Heiwa, step outside at night and look at the moon.  Notice how fast it moves across the sky?  Now consider that most of that is due to the Earthís rotation.  What you see is 28x faster than the moon is moving in its orbit around the earth.

The moon orbits at about 1km per second.  It takes about an hour to move the equivalent of its diameter, and itís utterly predictable where itís going.

You compared to hitting a moving tennis ball with another tennis ball.  Sure, hitting a tennis ball moving at 5cm an hour.

I also note that doubting the accuracy of plotting a trajectory to the moon is a completely different argument to saying itís theoretically impossible.  You need to make up your mind what you think the problem is.
?? But it is true. The Moon moves at 1000 m/s around Earth in orbit to avoid being landed on. So you start from Earth to visit the Moon and it takes time (seconds) to go there. Every second the Moon moves 1000 m. And you think you can approach it and start orbiting around it. Sorry, you will never arrive. Show your calculations that I am wrong.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 07, 2020, 04:35:27 PM
I love this new argument that the moon is moving at such blistering speed it would be impossible to aim for. 

Heiwa, step outside at night and look at the moon.  Notice how fast it moves across the sky?  Now consider that most of that is due to the Earthís rotation.  What you see is 28x faster than the moon is moving in its orbit around the earth.

The moon orbits at about 1km per second.  It takes about an hour to move the equivalent of its diameter, and itís utterly predictable where itís going.

You compared to hitting a moving tennis ball with another tennis ball.  Sure, hitting a tennis ball moving at 5cm an hour.

I also note that doubting the accuracy of plotting a trajectory to the moon is a completely different argument to saying itís theoretically impossible.  You need to make up your mind what you think the problem is.
?? But it is true. The Moon moves at 1000 m/s around Earth in orbit to avoid being landed on. So you start from Earth to visit the Moon and it takes time (seconds) to go there. Every second the Moon moves 1000 m. And you think you can approach it and start orbiting around it. Sorry, you will never arrive. Show your calculations that I am wrong.

ftp://dim13.org/pub/doc/TN_1002.pdf

When do I get the cash?

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 07, 2020, 11:18:49 PM
I love this new argument that the moon is moving at such blistering speed it would be impossible to aim for. 

Heiwa, step outside at night and look at the moon.  Notice how fast it moves across the sky?  Now consider that most of that is due to the Earthís rotation.  What you see is 28x faster than the moon is moving in its orbit around the earth.

The moon orbits at about 1km per second.  It takes about an hour to move the equivalent of its diameter, and itís utterly predictable where itís going.

You compared to hitting a moving tennis ball with another tennis ball.  Sure, hitting a tennis ball moving at 5cm an hour.

I also note that doubting the accuracy of plotting a trajectory to the moon is a completely different argument to saying itís theoretically impossible.  You need to make up your mind what you think the problem is.
?? But it is true. The Moon moves at 1000 m/s around Earth in orbit to avoid being landed on. So you start from Earth to visit the Moon and it takes time (seconds) to go there. Every second the Moon moves 1000 m. And you think you can approach it and start orbiting around it. Sorry, you will never arrive. Show your calculations that I am wrong.

ftp://dim13.org/pub/doc/TN_1002.pdf

When do I get the cash?
The paper just describes how to change a LEO to a MEO, e.g. Apollo 11 style. Your spacecraft is in LEO with 7726 m/s, it increases speed to 10832 m/s so you end up in MEO (at 384000000 m altitude) and reduced speed 188 m/s. After a while the Moon in MEO with speed 1018 m/s runs into you from behind if you happen to be in the same plane (which is unlikely).
It is not the fastest and best way to go to the Moon but it requires least fuel.
How much? It depends on the mass of your spacecraft in LEO. 200 tons? How do you get 200 tons into LEO?
Say you are in slow MEO (188 m/s) and the Moon arrives from behind at 1018 m/s in the same plane. So you have to speed up! But do you have fuel for it? Space travel is not easy.
No cash for you!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 08, 2020, 07:05:28 AM
How much? It depends on the mass of your spacecraft in LEO. 200 tons? How do you get 200 tons into LEO?
Most likely the same way they got the ISS into LEO...  By making several trips and assembling the spacecraft in LEO.

Say you are in slow MEO (188 m/s) and the Moon arrives from behind at 1018 m/s in the same plane. So you have to speed up! But do you have fuel for it? Space travel is not easy.
You keep ignoring the fact that after you pass the L1 point, the moon's gravitational field is stronger than the earth's so you would begin accelerating towards the moon and increasing your speed.  You just need a well timed orbital insertion burn.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 08, 2020, 10:04:25 AM
How much? It depends on the mass of your spacecraft in LEO. 200 tons? How do you get 200 tons into LEO?
Most likely the same way they got the ISS into LEO...  By making several trips and assembling the spacecraft in LEO.

Say you are in slow MEO (188 m/s) and the Moon arrives from behind at 1018 m/s in the same plane. So you have to speed up! But do you have fuel for it? Space travel is not easy.
You keep ignoring the fact that after you pass the L1 point, the moon's gravitational field is stronger than the earth's so you would begin accelerating towards the moon and increasing your speed.  You just need a well timed orbital insertion burn.
No, I don't ignore Moon gravity. I only point out that the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s (around the Earth) in one orbit at high altitude governed by Earth gravity. In order to reach it, you must also arrive in its vicinity at same speed and direction, but you are in another orbit ... it becomes difficult.
Markjo - let's face it. You only know BS about orbits and most other things. Do you really know anything?
Anyway, the NASA Artemis mission solves all problems. NASA has a new SLS super rocket that 2024 will put an American woman on the Moon South Pole. It must be true! POTUS Trump says so. And VPOTUS Pence.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 08, 2020, 12:43:30 PM

The paper just describes how to change a LEO to a MEO, e.g. Apollo 11 style.

LOL.  ďJustď explains how to do it Apollo style?  What kind of moon landing denier are you?

Also, no.  The paper looks at several trajectories.

Quote
Your spacecraft is in LEO with 7726 m/s, it increases speed to 10832 m/s so you end up in MEO (at 384000000 m altitude) and reduced speed 188 m/s. After a while the Moon in MEO with speed 1018 m/s runs into you from behind if you happen to be in the same plane (which is unlikely).
It is not the fastest and best way to go to the Moon but it requires least fuel.

So you CAN get to the moon?

Quote
How much? It depends on the mass of your spacecraft in LEO. 200 tons? How do you get 200 tons into LEO?

Do I detect a shifting of goal posts?  Suddenly you want to know how to deliver a 200 tonne payload?  200 tonnes??!!!

Quote
Say you are in slow MEO (188 m/s) and the Moon arrives from behind at 1018 m/s in the same plane. So you have to speed up! But do you have fuel for it? Space travel is not easy.

Maybe why it says this:

ďFor lunar capture another manoeuvre (ΔV2) has to be applied in the periselene. This ma- noeuvre results again from the difference of the Moonís orbital velocity and the spacecraft velocity in the LTO apogee to 0.83 km/s.Ē

Quote
No cash for you!

No cash?  Iím shocked. 

Your fake challenge is irrelevant to this thread anyway.  You asked for calculations and Iíve provided them.

Where are yours?

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 08, 2020, 01:05:39 PM
How much? It depends on the mass of your spacecraft in LEO. 200 tons? How do you get 200 tons into LEO?
Most likely the same way they got the ISS into LEO...  By making several trips and assembling the spacecraft in LEO.

Say you are in slow MEO (188 m/s) and the Moon arrives from behind at 1018 m/s in the same plane. So you have to speed up! But do you have fuel for it? Space travel is not easy.
You keep ignoring the fact that after you pass the L1 point, the moon's gravitational field is stronger than the earth's so you would begin accelerating towards the moon and increasing your speed.  You just need a well timed orbital insertion burn.
No, I don't ignore Moon gravity. I only point out that the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s (around the Earth) in one orbit at high altitude governed by Earth gravity. In order to reach it, you must also arrive in its vicinity at same speed and direction, but you are in another orbit ... it becomes difficult.
Difficult?  Yes.  Impossible?  No.  Several space agencies already have experience sending a number of manned and unmanned spacecraft and landers to the moon.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 08, 2020, 04:12:56 PM
How much? It depends on the mass of your spacecraft in LEO. 200 tons? How do you get 200 tons into LEO?
Most likely the same way they got the ISS into LEO...  By making several trips and assembling the spacecraft in LEO.

Say you are in slow MEO (188 m/s) and the Moon arrives from behind at 1018 m/s in the same plane. So you have to speed up! But do you have fuel for it? Space travel is not easy.
You keep ignoring the fact that after you pass the L1 point, the moon's gravitational field is stronger than the earth's so you would begin accelerating towards the moon and increasing your speed.  You just need a well timed orbital insertion burn.
No, I don't ignore Moon gravity. I only point out that the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s (around the Earth) in one orbit at high altitude governed by Earth gravity. In order to reach it, you must also arrive in its vicinity at same speed and direction, but you are in another orbit ... it becomes difficult.
Difficult?  Yes.  Impossible?  No.  Several space agencies already have experience sending a number of manned and unmanned spacecraft and landers to the moon.
You are wrong as usual.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 08, 2020, 04:19:13 PM
Every time I see Heiwa post I think of this


Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 08, 2020, 05:13:16 PM
You are wrong as usual.
How can I argue with that? ::)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 08, 2020, 08:48:49 PM
You are wrong as usual.
How can I argue with that? ::)
By not suggesting that 'several space agencies already have experience sending a number of manned and unmanned spacecraft and landers to the moon'.
They are just lying about it, so media can publish it as Fake News.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 08, 2020, 09:05:05 PM
You are wrong as usual.
How can I argue with that? ::)
By not suggesting that 'several space agencies already have experience sending a number of manned and unmanned spacecraft and landers to the moon'.
They are just lying about it, so media can publish it as Fake News.

And your evidence of lying is...?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 08, 2020, 11:27:22 PM
You are wrong as usual.
How can I argue with that? ::)
By not suggesting that 'several space agencies already have experience sending a number of manned and unmanned spacecraft and landers to the moon'.
They are just lying about it, so media can publish it as Fake News.

And your evidence of lying is...?
I describe the NASA & Co. lying at my website since many years. It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 09, 2020, 06:21:38 AM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 09, 2020, 09:32:54 AM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 09, 2020, 10:38:39 AM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 09, 2020, 11:23:51 AM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2020, 11:32:41 AM
You are wrong as usual.
How can I argue with that? ::)
By not suggesting that 'several space agencies already have experience sending a number of manned and unmanned spacecraft and landers to the moon'.
They are just lying about it, so media can publish it as Fake News.

And your evidence of lying is...?
I describe the NASA & Co. lying at my website since many years. It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.

That's not evidence. It's just you complaining that rocket scientists won't return your phone calls. Where are your calculations that refute all the data/calculations you have been provided a 1000 times?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 09, 2020, 11:33:51 AM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.

Yeah, and they wonít be going until it is.  See how this works?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 09, 2020, 02:54:18 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 09, 2020, 05:19:38 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 09, 2020, 06:03:27 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.
If it's a fraud, then expose the criminals to law enforcement.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 09, 2020, 08:32:30 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.
If it's a fraud, then expose the criminals to law enforcement.
I have! But FBI is not interested! I describe it at my website.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 09, 2020, 09:26:41 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.
If it's a fraud, then expose the criminals to law enforcement.
I have! But FBI is not interested! I describe it at my website.
Maybe they aren't interested because it isn't a fraud.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 09, 2020, 10:24:58 PM

If it's a fraud, then expose the criminals to law enforcement.
I have! But FBI is not interested! I describe it at my website.

Maybe try offering them

(https://tenor.com/view/onemilliondollars-gif-4123675.gif)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2020, 10:54:33 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.

Generally, to claim fraud you need some evidence. Unfortunately for you, you have none.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 09, 2020, 11:19:16 PM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.

Generally, to claim fraud you need some evidence. Unfortunately for you, you have none.
Well, I consider it fraud to go around claiming you have been on the Moon or having sent people there after several orbit changes in space. Changing orbits in space is not possible, QED. Only the shape of one orbit you are in, is possible. You cannot jump to another orbit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 09, 2020, 11:30:29 PM
Do you know what QED means?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 10, 2020, 03:15:36 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 10, 2020, 03:40:46 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 10, 2020, 06:22:32 AM
It is astro-physically impossible to fly from a low Earth orbit to an orbit around the Moon, leave that latter orbit, land on the Moon for a piss, take off from Moon and dock with the spacecraft in orbit there, leave the orbit around the Moon and then drop down on Earth again and land there.
Your astrophysical ignorance is not evidence that NASA is lying.
No you are wrong as usual. Just ask NASA how they intend to put a woman on the Moon 2024.

With rockets.
You mean the SLS? Not yet ready.
Be patient.  They're working on it.  In the mean time, SpaceX will be sending 4 astronauts to the ISS in a few weeks.
It is part of the fraud.

Generally, to claim fraud you need some evidence. Unfortunately for you, you have none.
Well, I consider it fraud to go around claiming you have been on the Moon or having sent people there after several orbit changes in space. Changing orbits in space is not possible, QED. Only the shape of one orbit you are in, is possible. You cannot jump to another orbit.
Just because YOU don't understand it doesn't mean nobody else does. This is a YOU problem.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 10, 2020, 06:59:59 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 10, 2020, 07:08:26 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.

So show your working. 

10 pages of you saying itís not possible based on absolutely nothing. 

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 10, 2020, 09:34:57 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.

So show your working. 

10 pages of you saying itís not possible based on absolutely nothing.
You really have to study my findings at my website. Why do you get so upset? Are you part of the fraud?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 11, 2020, 05:26:12 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.

So show your working. 

10 pages of you saying itís not possible based on absolutely nothing.
You really have to study my findings at my website. Why do you get so upset? Are you part of the fraud?

Wow.  3 lines of deflection in so few words.  Impressive, but still nothing to back up your claims.

No one needs to visit your unsecure and probably malware infested website.  I went there once before and found no sign of evidence or calculations supporting your claim that itís impossible to leave earth orbit.  Only argument from incredulity and whinging that people donít reply to your crank phone calls.  I have no desire to risk it going there again.

Iím neither upset nor part of your conspiracy delusion.  Iím just laughing at your continued insistence that you can back up your claims without actually doing it.

Stop trying to wriggle out of it and get on with it, if you can.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 11, 2020, 05:33:56 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.

So show your working. 

10 pages of you saying itís not possible based on absolutely nothing.
You really have to study my findings at my website. Why do you get so upset? Are you part of the fraud?

Wow.  3 lines of deflection in so few words.  Impressive, but still nothing to back up your claims.

No one needs to visit your unsecure and probably malware infested website.  I went there once before and found no sign of evidence or calculations supporting your claim that itís impossible to leave earth orbit.  Only argument from incredulity and whinging that people donít reply to your crank phone calls.  I have no desire to risk it going there again.

Iím neither upset nor part of your conspiracy delusion.  Iím just laughing at your continued insistence that you can back up your claims without actually doing it.

Stop trying to wriggle out of it and get on with it, if you can.
No problem. You sound like a loser that knows nothing about orbits. Orbits are no conspiracy. They are just one-way trips around celestial objects.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 11, 2020, 05:50:52 PM
Orbits are no conspiracy. They are just one-way trips around celestial objects.


Orbital decay.  Another thing that Anders doesn't comprehend.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 12, 2020, 01:37:55 AM
Orbits are no conspiracy. They a. re just one-way trips around celestial objects.


Orbital decay.  Another thing that Anders doesn't comprehend.
I fully agree with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_decay . Orbits are one-way trips around celestial bodies and if they decay they end with a crash.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 12, 2020, 11:47:21 AM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.

So show your working. 

10 pages of you saying itís not possible based on absolutely nothing.
You really have to study my findings at my website. Why do you get so upset? Are you part of the fraud?

Wow.  3 lines of deflection in so few words.  Impressive, but still nothing to back up your claims.

No one needs to visit your unsecure and probably malware infested website.  I went there once before and found no sign of evidence or calculations supporting your claim that itís impossible to leave earth orbit.  Only argument from incredulity and whinging that people donít reply to your crank phone calls.  I have no desire to risk it going there again.

Iím neither upset nor part of your conspiracy delusion.  Iím just laughing at your continued insistence that you can back up your claims without actually doing it.

Stop trying to wriggle out of it and get on with it, if you can.
No problem. You sound like a loser that knows nothing about orbits. Orbits are no conspiracy. They are just one-way trips around celestial objects.

More like a round trip, if you ask me.

*bah-dum tsh*

Looks like youíre not even pretending to have anything to back up your nonsense anymore, do I guess weíre done.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 12, 2020, 03:16:58 PM
Do you know what QED means?
Yes!

So why write that when you havenít demonstrated anything?
You really have to study my findings at my website. Only one way, unmanned space trips by spacecrafts into orbits are possible ŗ la Arianespace. There is no way to leave that original orbit and start anything else. The spacecraft cannot carry fuel and equipment to start a new trip/orbit from the first orbit.

So show your working. 

10 pages of you saying itís not possible based on absolutely nothing.
You really have to study my findings at my website. Why do you get so upset? Are you part of the fraud?

Wow.  3 lines of deflection in so few words.  Impressive, but still nothing to back up your claims.

No one needs to visit your unsecure and probably malware infested website.  I went there once before and found no sign of evidence or calculations supporting your claim that itís impossible to leave earth orbit.  Only argument from incredulity and whinging that people donít reply to your crank phone calls.  I have no desire to risk it going there again.

Iím neither upset nor part of your conspiracy delusion.  Iím just laughing at your continued insistence that you can back up your claims without actually doing it.

Stop trying to wriggle out of it and get on with it, if you can.
No problem. You sound like a loser that knows nothing about orbits. Orbits are no conspiracy. They are just one-way trips around celestial objects.

More like a round trip, if you ask me.

*bah-dum tsh*

Looks like youíre not even pretending to have anything to back up your nonsense anymore, do I guess weíre done.
Well, orbits are of course eternal round trips with no way to stop and land as you cannot carry the fuel with you for it. Once in orbit, always in orbit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on October 12, 2020, 03:36:57 PM
Do you think all satellites are at the same altitude?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 12, 2020, 05:27:06 PM
Well, orbits are of course eternal round trips with no way to stop and land as you cannot carry the fuel with you for it. Once in orbit, always in orbit.
Why can't a satellite or spacecraft carry extra fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 12, 2020, 09:06:11 PM
Well, orbits are of course eternal round trips with no way to stop and land as you cannot carry the fuel with you for it. Once in orbit, always in orbit.
Why can't a satellite or spacecraft carry extra fuel?
Satellites are built just to orbit after being put there. They don't need extra fuell to stop and land, etc. Actually, when in LEO speed is quite high and you need big amounts of fuel just to change speed a little, and that fuel must be carried along from launch. So all space trips by satellites are just one-way orbits with no extra fuel for anything. Arianespace does it all the time. Only idiots believe in humans, lika Gagarin, in space. It was just communist propaganda. JFK believed it. What an idiot.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 13, 2020, 06:26:47 AM
So all space trips by satellites are just one-way orbits with no extra fuel for anything.
Wrong.  Geostationary satellites need propellant to maneuver into their operational orbital slot above the equator and for stationkeeping during its operational lifetime.  At the end of its operational life, it needs enough propellent to move out of its slot and into a "graveyard orbit".  These propellant requirements are taken into consideration when the satellite is designed and often results in the satellite having a mass of several tons with propellant being a significant portion of that mass at launch.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 13, 2020, 07:11:24 AM
So all space trips by satellites are just one-way orbits with no extra fuel for anything.
Wrong.  Geostationary satellites need propellant to maneuver into their operational orbital slot above the equator and for stationkeeping during its operational lifetime.  At the end of its operational life, it needs enough propellent to move out of its slot and into a "graveyard orbit".  These propellant requirements are taken into consideration when the satellite is designed and often results in the satellite having a mass of several tons with propellant being a significant portion of that mass at launch.
Yes. Part of normal life of many satellites in one way orbits. But no extra tons of fuel is used to to end the trip. You make up things as usual. To change direction down of a satellite in orbit to crash very little fuel is used. But why bother? Satellites never collide. Better leave them in orbit.
Topic is how to jump from one orbit to another, slow down and put a woman on the Moon South Pole.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 13, 2020, 07:19:05 AM
Yes. Part of normal life of many satellites in one way orbits.
Right, and part of normal life of manned spacecraft is to de-orbit and return to earth.  Again, those are requirements that are taken into account when the spacecraft is designed and built.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 13, 2020, 07:49:11 AM
So all space trips by satellites are just one-way orbits with no extra fuel for anything.
Wrong.  Geostationary satellites need propellant to maneuver into their operational orbital slot above the equator and for stationkeeping during its operational lifetime.  At the end of its operational life, it needs enough propellent to move out of its slot and into a "graveyard orbit".  These propellant requirements are taken into consideration when the satellite is designed and often results in the satellite having a mass of several tons with propellant being a significant portion of that mass at launch.
Yes. Part of normal life of many satellites in one way orbits. But no extra tons of fuel is used to to end the trip. You make up things as usual. To change direction down of a satellite in orbit to crash very little fuel is used. But why bother? Satellites never collide. Better leave them in orbit.
Topic is how to jump from one orbit to another, slow down and put a woman on the Moon South Pole.

You're not answering the question. What is preventing a spaceship from carrying fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 13, 2020, 09:20:35 AM
So all space trips by satellites are just one-way orbits with no extra fuel for anything.
Wrong.  Geostationary satellites need propellant to maneuver into their operational orbital slot above the equator and for stationkeeping during its operational lifetime.  At the end of its operational life, it needs enough propellent to move out of its slot and into a "graveyard orbit".  These propellant requirements are taken into consideration when the satellite is designed and often results in the satellite having a mass of several tons with propellant being a significant portion of that mass at launch.
Yes. Part of normal life of many satellites in one way orbits. But no extra tons of fuel is used to to end the trip. You make up things as usual. To change direction down of a satellite in orbit to crash very little fuel is used. But why bother? Satellites never collide. Better leave them in orbit.
Topic is how to jump from one orbit to another, slow down and put a woman on the Moon South Pole.

You're not answering the question. What is preventing a spaceship from carrying fuel?
Nothing ... except you get too heavy to carry it with you for serious operations. All spaceship ops are one way and unmanned. No way and no reason to return.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 13, 2020, 09:23:54 AM
Yes. Part of normal life of many satellites in one way orbits.
Right, and part of normal life of manned spacecraft is to de-orbit and return to earth.  Again, those are requirements that are taken into account when the spacecraft is designed and built.
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.   
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 13, 2020, 09:45:17 AM
So all space trips by satellites are just one-way orbits with no extra fuel for anything.
Wrong.  Geostationary satellites need propellant to maneuver into their operational orbital slot above the equator and for stationkeeping during its operational lifetime.  At the end of its operational life, it needs enough propellent to move out of its slot and into a "graveyard orbit".  These propellant requirements are taken into consideration when the satellite is designed and often results in the satellite having a mass of several tons with propellant being a significant portion of that mass at launch.
Yes. Part of normal life of many satellites in one way orbits. But no extra tons of fuel is used to to end the trip. You make up things as usual. To change direction down of a satellite in orbit to crash very little fuel is used. But why bother? Satellites never collide. Better leave them in orbit.
Topic is how to jump from one orbit to another, slow down and put a woman on the Moon South Pole.

You're not answering the question. What is preventing a spaceship from carrying fuel?
Nothing ... except you get too heavy to carry it with you for serious operations. All spaceship ops are one way and unmanned. No way and no reason to return.

That's just an opinion. What's your calculation that they are too heavy? What's your evidence for this? And don't bring up your site again for 2 reasons, 1) There is no information there regarding this 2) I'll report you for promoting your website.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 13, 2020, 01:18:26 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things? 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 13, 2020, 05:49:33 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way! And there are weight limitations!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 13, 2020, 05:57:56 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

What's the point of your link?

And why can't spacecraft carry fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 13, 2020, 06:10:08 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way! And there are weight limitations!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf
Translation: Of course I can't provide the calculations! I don't understand them so I decided it was all fake. No I don't have anything besides logical fallacies.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 13, 2020, 06:20:40 PM
Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!
Not if you design and build your spacecraft properly.

And there are weight limitations!
Yes, that's why you learn to work within those weight limitations.  Either that, or you need to find someone who has a heavier lift capability.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 13, 2020, 07:33:51 PM
And there are weight limitations!

Yes, they don't allow fatties to ride on rockets.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 14, 2020, 03:17:20 AM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

What's the point of your link?

And why can't spacecraft carry fuel?
The link shows the requirements of a small spacecraft/satellite to be put into orbit by French company Arianespace (of which I am a shareholder).  If you want to go into space with your own built spacecraft, Arianespace will put in orbit for you. If you want to carry fuel in your spacecraft, you can do it.
But - Arianespace will not help you to land anywhere, etc. Note weight limitation 400 kg. NASA is planning a 40 ton spacecraft to land a woman (!) on the Moon 2024. It needs a rocket that is 100 times stronger than what Arianespace can be provide. I have never understood what a woman (or man) shall do on the Moon. Electronic robots are much better, lighter, have longer life, etc, etc, and do not have to go to the toilet. I have never understood the reason for USA to send a woman to the Moon. It sounds stupid.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 14, 2020, 06:22:26 AM
But - Arianespace will not help you to land anywhere, etc. Note weight limitation 400 kg. NASA is planning a 40 ton spacecraft to land a woman (!) on the Moon 2024. It needs a rocket that is 100 times stronger than what Arianespace can be provide.
The Vega-C is classified as a small satellite launcher for payloads of 300-2500kg, depending on the orbit.  As a shareholder, you should already know that Ariane 5 or 6 are are heavy lift rockets rated for more than 20 tonnes LEO.  For a 40 ton payloads to the moon, you're looking at super-heavy lift rockets like the Falcon Heavy, SLS or New Glenn that are rated at more than 50 tons to LEO.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 14, 2020, 11:13:43 AM

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way! And there are weight limitations!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

Hmmm...

Quote from: “ Small Spacecraft Mission Service VEGA-C
User’s Manual”
1.1 Purpose of the Small S/C Mission Service User’s Manual

Arianespace has been launching Small Spacecraft since the early days of Ariane in 1980. Arianespace initiated a standardized approach with the introduction of the ASAP carrying system (Ariane Structure for Auxiliary Payloads). This allowed many teams worldwide to gain easy and cost effective access to space for their small projects.

In order to address the needs of a growing number of Small Sat projects, Arianespace is now offering a tailored, standardized launch service for Small S/C, with regular rideshare missions on Vega-C, in addition to some piggyback opportunities.
A first “Proof of Concept” rideshare mission on Vega successfully took place on 02 September 2020 with a total of 53 Small S/C.

Vega-C launch system has improved capabilities compared to Vega: higher performance (60% more), larger fairing, improved versatility (3 different orbits can be targeted) and a wider spectrum of payload accommodations for any S/C. This will allow embarking even more Small S/C at the same time and will make the life always easier to any entities that want to take advantage of affordable access to space.

The present Small Spacecraft Mission Service User’s Manual provides information for launching Small S/C from 1kg up to 400 kg using the Vega-C launch system operated from the Guiana Space Centre by Arianespace.

The content encompasses:
• the Small Spacecraft classification;
• the description of the available carrying systems on Vega-C;
• the description of the interfaces between Small Spacecraft and Launch Vehicle;
• the requirements for Small Spacecraft design and compatibility verification and
the launch environment;
• the mission management & launch campaign organization.
Together with the Vega-C User’s Manual, the Spacecraft Processing Facility at CSG User’s Manual and the Payload Safety Handbook, it gives readers the information to assess the compatibility with the proposed standardized configurations.

Call me crazy, but I suspect this rocket might be for launching small spacecraft.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 14, 2020, 12:16:32 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

What's the point of your link?

And why can't spacecraft carry fuel?
The link shows the requirements of a small spacecraft/satellite to be put into orbit by French company Arianespace (of which I am a shareholder).  If you want to go into space with your own built spacecraft, Arianespace will put in orbit for you. If you want to carry fuel in your spacecraft, you can do it.
But - Arianespace will not help you to land anywhere, etc. Note weight limitation 400 kg. NASA is planning a 40 ton spacecraft to land a woman (!) on the Moon 2024. It needs a rocket that is 100 times stronger than what Arianespace can be provide. I have never understood what a woman (or man) shall do on the Moon. Electronic robots are much better, lighter, have longer life, etc, etc, and do not have to go to the toilet. I have never understood the reason for USA to send a woman to the Moon. It sounds stupid.

So, what's your point? Arianespace is mainly in the satellite launching business, good for them and good for you for being a shareholder. What does Arianespace have to do with the SLS/Artemis project?

So you don't understand what a human would do at the moon? Again, good for you. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean no one else does. What a strange non-factual pure opinion statement. Do you really think anyone cares what you think? Are you that delusional that you think that NASA is just waiting for you to say you think the effort is pointless and then they will scrap it?

Now, why can't a spacecraft carry fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 14, 2020, 01:13:33 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

What's the point of your link?

And why can't spacecraft carry fuel?
The link shows the requirements of a small spacecraft/satellite to be put into orbit by French company Arianespace (of which I am a shareholder).  If you want to go into space with your own built spacecraft, Arianespace will put in orbit for you. If you want to carry fuel in your spacecraft, you can do it.
But - Arianespace will not help you to land anywhere, etc. Note weight limitation 400 kg. NASA is planning a 40 ton spacecraft to land a woman (!) on the Moon 2024. It needs a rocket that is 100 times stronger than what Arianespace can be provide. I have never understood what a woman (or man) shall do on the Moon. Electronic robots are much better, lighter, have longer life, etc, etc, and do not have to go to the toilet. I have never understood the reason for USA to send a woman to the Moon. It sounds stupid.

So, what's your point? Arianespace is mainly in the satellite launching business, good for them and good for you for being a shareholder. What does Arianespace have to do with the SLS/Artemis project?

So you don't understand what a human would do at the moon? Again, good for you. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean no one else does. What a strange non-factual pure opinion statement. Do you really think anyone cares what you think? Are you that delusional that you think that NASA is just waiting for you to say you think the effort is pointless and then they will scrap it?

Now, why can't a spacecraft carry fuel?
It seems we agree spacecrafts can be sent into orbits from Earth. But then? Orbits are just one way trips around Earth. Arianespace does that only that since many years. The spacecrafts do not need any fuel for anything else

Yes, I have no idea what humans shall do on the Moon. Plant strawberries? Much better to  explore the Universe using robots. What's wrong with it?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 14, 2020, 02:09:36 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

What's the point of your link?

And why can't spacecraft carry fuel?
The link shows the requirements of a small spacecraft/satellite to be put into orbit by French company Arianespace (of which I am a shareholder).  If you want to go into space with your own built spacecraft, Arianespace will put in orbit for you. If you want to carry fuel in your spacecraft, you can do it.
But - Arianespace will not help you to land anywhere, etc. Note weight limitation 400 kg. NASA is planning a 40 ton spacecraft to land a woman (!) on the Moon 2024. It needs a rocket that is 100 times stronger than what Arianespace can be provide. I have never understood what a woman (or man) shall do on the Moon. Electronic robots are much better, lighter, have longer life, etc, etc, and do not have to go to the toilet. I have never understood the reason for USA to send a woman to the Moon. It sounds stupid.

So, what's your point? Arianespace is mainly in the satellite launching business, good for them and good for you for being a shareholder. What does Arianespace have to do with the SLS/Artemis project?

So you don't understand what a human would do at the moon? Again, good for you. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean no one else does. What a strange non-factual pure opinion statement. Do you really think anyone cares what you think? Are you that delusional that you think that NASA is just waiting for you to say you think the effort is pointless and then they will scrap it?

Now, why can't a spacecraft carry fuel?
It seems we agree spacecrafts can be sent into orbits from Earth. But then? Orbits are just one way trips around Earth. Arianespace does that only that since many years. The spacecrafts do not need any fuel for anything else

Yes, I have no idea what humans shall do on the Moon. Plant strawberries? Much better to  explore the Universe using robots. What's wrong with it?

Again, like always, you're not even remotely addressing the questions. What does Arianespace have to do anything? They launch stuff into space to make money. Great. That's what they do. Does Arianespace represent every other space endeavor/organization/company? Are they the only space endeavor/organization/company in existence?

So you would prefer that we explore the universe with robots. Great. Nothing wrong with that. We actually do that already. But duly noted. I'll pass on your wishes to all of the space orgs in the world. I'll ask them to message you back when they decide to only perform the space activities you would like them to.

Now, why can't a spacecraft carry fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 14, 2020, 04:44:43 PM
Seems like Heiwa has a robot fetish.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 14, 2020, 06:12:27 PM
Yes, I know. Manned spacecrafts with their toilets and restaurants aboard need extra fuel to land a deposit the garbage ... and great American heroes. And 2024 it will be an American woman.
Would you please prove that you're interested a serious discussion by not saying such stupid things?

Anyone can go into space! But it is one-way!

https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/SSMS-Vega-C-UsersManual-Issue-1-Rev0-Sept2020.pdf

What's the point of your link?

And why can't spacecraft carry fuel?
The link shows the requirements of a small spacecraft/satellite to be put into orbit by French company Arianespace (of which I am a shareholder).  If you want to go into space with your own built spacecraft, Arianespace will put in orbit for you. If you want to carry fuel in your spacecraft, you can do it.
But - Arianespace will not help you to land anywhere, etc. Note weight limitation 400 kg. NASA is planning a 40 ton spacecraft to land a woman (!) on the Moon 2024. It needs a rocket that is 100 times stronger than what Arianespace can be provide. I have never understood what a woman (or man) shall do on the Moon. Electronic robots are much better, lighter, have longer life, etc, etc, and do not have to go to the toilet. I have never understood the reason for USA to send a woman to the Moon. It sounds stupid.

So, what's your point? Arianespace is mainly in the satellite launching business, good for them and good for you for being a shareholder. What does Arianespace have to do with the SLS/Artemis project?

So you don't understand what a human would do at the moon? Again, good for you. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean no one else does. What a strange non-factual pure opinion statement. Do you really think anyone cares what you think? Are you that delusional that you think that NASA is just waiting for you to say you think the effort is pointless and then they will scrap it?

Now, why can't a spacecraft carry fuel?
It seems we agree spacecrafts can be sent into orbits from Earth. But then? Orbits are just one way trips around Earth. Arianespace does that only that since many years. The spacecrafts do not need any fuel for anything else

Yes, I have no idea what humans shall do on the Moon. Plant strawberries? Much better to  explore the Universe using robots. What's wrong with it?

Again, like always, you're not even remotely addressing the questions. What does Arianespace have to do anything? They launch stuff into space to make money. Great. That's what they do. Does Arianespace represent every other space endeavor/organization/company? Are they the only space endeavor/organization/company in existence?

So you would prefer that we explore the universe with robots. Great. Nothing wrong with that. We actually do that already. But duly noted. I'll pass on your wishes to all of the space orgs in the world. I'll ask them to message you back when they decide to only perform the space activities you would like them to.

Now, why can't a spacecraft carry fuel?
Of course spacecrafts can carry fuel! To do what? To drive a rocket engine to modify its orbital trajectory? Yes, it is the only reason! But it is a very heavy and impractical solution. Much better to use an external rocket and put the spacecraft in the correct orbit that way from the beginning. And that's it. Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
So what to do to change trajectory in orbit? Gravity assisted slingshots/kicks! I describe the fraud at http://heiwaco.com/moontravelc.htm .
You can also study the joke at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist .
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 14, 2020, 07:41:46 PM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 14, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one. You are going to fast. Just look out of your window. Does planets and moons stop in their orbits? No. So when in orbit you have to accept that you are stuck in it. Of course Potus Trump is sending an American woman to the Moon 2024 and she will jump from one orbit to another, stop and start, etc, etc, but it is just nonsense first page fake news. And you believe it. ROTFL.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 14, 2020, 08:07:50 PM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 14, 2020, 11:33:01 PM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 15, 2020, 01:37:12 AM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.

What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???

You claim to be an engineer, right? You claim to explain how others are wrong in their calculations, right? Put your skills to the test and show us how you would engineer it to make it work.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 15, 2020, 05:11:54 AM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.

What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???

You claim to be an engineer, right? You claim to explain how others are wrong in their calculations, right? Put your skills to the test and show us how you would engineer it to make it work.
Please, all my calculations are at my website since 1996. Find anything wrong and collect Ä1M at http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm if you need money. Do you have a job? An education?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 15, 2020, 05:36:28 AM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.

What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???

You claim to be an engineer, right? You claim to explain how others are wrong in their calculations, right? Put your skills to the test and show us how you would engineer it to make it work.
Please, all my calculations are at my website since 1996. Find anything wrong and collect Ä1M at http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm if you need money. Do you have a job? An education?

Copy and paste some calculations here regarding orbits and why changing from one to another is impossible so we can take a look. Advertising your site is against the rules.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 15, 2020, 06:26:24 AM
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.
I thought that you were in the safety at sea business.  How does owning a few shares of a space launch business put you in the space business?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 15, 2020, 07:15:48 AM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.

What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???

You claim to be an engineer, right? You claim to explain how others are wrong in their calculations, right? Put your skills to the test and show us how you would engineer it to make it work.
Please, all my calculations are at my website since 1996. Find anything wrong and collect Ä1M at http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm if you need money. Do you have a job? An education?

Copy and paste some calculations here regarding orbits and why changing from one to another is impossible so we can take a look. Advertising your site is against the rules.
Do you have a job? An education?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 15, 2020, 07:18:54 AM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.

What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???

You claim to be an engineer, right? You claim to explain how others are wrong in their calculations, right? Put your skills to the test and show us how you would engineer it to make it work.
Please, all my calculations are at my website since 1996. Find anything wrong and collect Ä1M at http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm if you need money. Do you have a job? An education?

Copy and paste some calculations here regarding orbits and why changing from one to another is impossible so we can take a look. Advertising your site is against the rules.
Do you have a job? An education?

I guess that confirms it. You don't have any calculations. Just you complaining that rocket scientists won't return your calls. Suspected as much.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 15, 2020, 07:20:38 AM
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.
I thought that you were in the safety at sea business.  How does owning a few shares of a space launch business put you in the space business?
I invest my savings in plenty companies. They pay dividends so I can, when retired, live well. With plenty time to convince stupid people that human space travel is fraud.
Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 15, 2020, 07:23:47 AM
Once in orbit, always in orbit and no way to stop and land anywhere. Easy to show!
Anders, why don't you pretended there is a way to stop your and land your spacecraft?  How would you engineer a solution?
There is no way to stop in orbit or jump into a new orbit from an old one.
What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???
I am in the peaceful space business, i.e. sending satellites into orbits to improve communications on Earth, etc. I am not in the criminal space business with humans/actors flying around up there in spacecrafts without toilets playing heroes.
I thought that should be clear by now.

What part of "pretend there is a way" did you not understand? ???

You claim to be an engineer, right? You claim to explain how others are wrong in their calculations, right? Put your skills to the test and show us how you would engineer it to make it work.
Please, all my calculations are at my website since 1996. Find anything wrong and collect Ä1M at http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm if you need money. Do you have a job? An education?

Copy and paste some calculations here regarding orbits and why changing from one to another is impossible so we can take a look. Advertising your site is against the rules.
Do you have a job? An education?

I guess that confirms it. You don't have any calculations. Just you complaining that rocket scientists won't return your calls. Suspected as much.
Wrong. No rocket scientist is able to show how to stop a spacecraft in and change its orbits. NASA is sending an American woman to the Moon 2024 and cannot tell anyone the details how it is done.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 16, 2020, 03:31:07 PM
The only engineering Heiwa knows about is sanitation.  Heiwa the Sanitation Engineer.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 16, 2020, 05:40:37 PM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within you celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 16, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Hm, any rocket/spacecraft taking off from Earth to enter space/Universe orbits Earth. And that's it! You cannot start orbiting anything else, e.g. by getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
You are going too fast and cannot adjust speed due to lack of fuel. Only stupid people, members of the religious space travel sect, believe otherwise. I feel sorry for them.
But, if you are American, you have no choice. Both Donald and Joe believe in space travel and an American woman on the Moon 2024.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 16, 2020, 08:40:03 PM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Hm, any rocket/spacecraft taking off from Earth to enter space/Universe orbits Earth. And that's it! You cannot start orbiting anything else, e.g. by getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
You are going too fast and cannot adjust speed due to lack of fuel.
Anders, you do understand that when you head off to the moon, you are still under the earth's gravitational influence, therefore you are slowing down quite a lot as you depart the earth.  It's not until you get fairly close to the moon that its gravitational influence becomes greater then the earth's and you begin accelerating again.  However, since the moon's gravity is only 1/6th that of the earth, you don't need to slow down very much to enter lunar orbit.

Only stupid people, members of the religious space travel sect, believe otherwise. I feel sorry for them.
But, if you are American, you have no choice. Both Donald and Joe believe in space travel and an American woman on the Moon 2024.
Please stop with the unnecessary insults and mockery.  It does nothing to help your position.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 16, 2020, 10:25:24 PM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Hm, any rocket/spacecraft taking off from Earth to enter space/Universe orbits Earth. And that's it! You cannot start orbiting anything else, e.g. by getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
You are going too fast and cannot adjust speed due to lack of fuel.

Why is there a lack of fuel? I thought you agreed that spacecrafts can carry fuel?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Bullwinkle on October 16, 2020, 10:45:09 PM

Hm, why should I prove that something is impossible?

It is impossible to prove something is impossible.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 16, 2020, 11:38:21 PM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Hm, any rocket/spacecraft taking off from Earth to enter space/Universe orbits Earth. And that's it! You cannot start orbiting anything else, e.g. by getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
You are going too fast and cannot adjust speed due to lack of fuel.

Why is there a lack of fuel? I thought you agreed that spacecrafts can carry fuel?
Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits. That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 16, 2020, 11:47:50 PM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Hm, any rocket/spacecraft taking off from Earth to enter space/Universe orbits Earth. And that's it! You cannot start orbiting anything else, e.g. by getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
You are going too fast and cannot adjust speed due to lack of fuel.
Anders, you do understand that when you head off to the moon, you are still under the earth's gravitational influence, therefore you are slowing down quite a lot as you depart the earth.  It's not until you get fairly close to the moon that its gravitational influence becomes greater then the earth's and you begin accelerating again.  However, since the moon's gravity is only 1/6th that of the earth, you don't need to slow down very much to enter lunar orbit.

Only stupid people, members of the religious space travel sect, believe otherwise. I feel sorry for them.
But, if you are American, you have no choice. Both Donald and Joe believe in space travel and an American woman on the Moon 2024.
Please stop with the unnecessary insults and mockery.  It does nothing to help your position.
Markjo, please stop repeating your nonsense about your spacecraft slowing down after departure Earth, but that it will speed up when approaching the Moon, etc, etc? The Moon has speed >1000 m/s in one direction and you approach it in another direction at lower speed so you will always miss the target No way to change direction and adjust speed and land on the Moon. Only idiots believe it is possible. Only cheap actors say they have done it. On presidential executive orders!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 17, 2020, 01:54:39 AM
I invest my savings in plenty companies.
Investing a company does not automatically make you an expert on that company.

Topic here is orbits and how they work. I have explained it several times. It is simple. Once in orbit you cannot stop or get out of it.
You must have a different definition of "explain" than the rest of the English speaking world.  Saying that you cannot get out of an orbit is not the same as explaining why you cannot get out of an orbit.

Orbiting the moon or sun is no different than orbiting the earth and the concept of changing orbit is really quite simple.  It's really just a matter of getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
Hm, any rocket/spacecraft taking off from Earth to enter space/Universe orbits Earth. And that's it! You cannot start orbiting anything else, e.g. by getting within your celestial body of choice's gravitational field and adjusting your speed accordingly.
You are going too fast and cannot adjust speed due to lack of fuel.

Why is there a lack of fuel? I thought you agreed that spacecrafts can carry fuel?
Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

How much is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity. 

That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

Arianespace does what they do because that's the business they decided to be in - Launching satellites. Has Arianespace ever stated that they do not perform other types of space endeavors because they can't be done? Of course not. So your statement is nonsense and irrelevant.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Bullwinkle on October 17, 2020, 01:54:53 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 08:38:37 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 17, 2020, 09:42:17 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.


Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 17, 2020, 09:48:17 AM
Markjo, please stop repeating your nonsense about your spacecraft slowing down after departure Earth, but that it will speed up when approaching the Moon, etc, etc? The Moon has speed >1000 m/s in one direction and you approach it in another direction at lower speed so you will always miss the target
*sigh* I thought that we sorted this out already. 

Yes, the moon is moving at a known speed and in a known orbit.  That means that you can aim for where the moon will be based on your speed, rather than where it currently is.


No way to change direction and adjust speed and land on the Moon.
I'm sorry that you lack the imagination to see possible solutions to those problems.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 10:47:12 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 10:51:57 AM
Markjo, please stop repeating your nonsense about your spacecraft slowing down after departure Earth, but that it will speed up when approaching the Moon, etc, etc? The Moon has speed >1000 m/s in one direction and you approach it in another direction at lower speed so you will always miss the target
*sigh* I thought that we sorted this out already. 

Yes, the moon is moving at a known speed and in a known orbit.  That means that you can aim for where the moon will be based on your speed, rather than where it currently is.


No way to change direction and adjust speed and land on the Moon.
I'm sorry that you lack the imagination to see possible solutions to those problems.
No, the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s in one direction in space and you approach it with a manned, teapot spacecraft at less velocity in another direction and ... ? You will never collide with the Moon or land on it. Only idiots believe that you can approach on object doing >1000 m/s speed and land on it.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 17, 2020, 10:53:23 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 11:06:59 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
I just refer to the clowns saying that they, aboard on their spacecrafts, have changes orbits and landed on the Moon. They look like liars to me.
So how much fuel did they use to change orbits? They just pushed on a button and a computer did it. 1969.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 17, 2020, 11:29:28 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
I just refer to the clowns saying that they, aboard on their spacecrafts, have changes orbits and landed on the Moon. They look like liars to me.
So how much fuel did they use to change orbits? They just pushed on a button and a computer did it. 1969.

That's an opinion and not helpful. You've been provided with all the data dozens of times by dozens of people regarding fuel capacity, burn durations, vectoring, distances, etc to change orbits. So based upon that data and your calculations can you show how they didn't have enough fuel to do what they claimed to do? This is literally the only way to make your challenge legitimate. Otherwise there's no benchmark as to why it couldn't be done.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 11:45:14 AM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
I just refer to the clowns saying that they, aboard on their spacecrafts, have changes orbits and landed on the Moon. They look like liars to me.
So how much fuel did they use to change orbits? They just pushed on a button and a computer did it. 1969.

That's an opinion and not helpful. You've been provided with all the data dozens of times by dozens of people regarding fuel capacity, burn durations, vectoring, distances, etc to change orbits. So based upon that data and your calculations can you show how they didn't have enough fuel to do what they claimed to do? This is literally the only way to make your challenge legitimate. Otherwise there's no benchmark as to why it couldn't be done.
According Dr. PhD, Buzz Aldrin he just pushed a button 1969 to change orbits and land on the Moon. He sounds like an alcholic to me. Has he been tested?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 17, 2020, 12:02:49 PM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
I just refer to the clowns saying that they, aboard on their spacecrafts, have changes orbits and landed on the Moon. They look like liars to me.
So how much fuel did they use to change orbits? They just pushed on a button and a computer did it. 1969.

That's an opinion and not helpful. You've been provided with all the data dozens of times by dozens of people regarding fuel capacity, burn durations, vectoring, distances, etc to change orbits. So based upon that data and your calculations can you show how they didn't have enough fuel to do what they claimed to do? This is literally the only way to make your challenge legitimate. Otherwise there's no benchmark as to why it couldn't be done.
According Dr. PhD, Buzz Aldrin he just pushed a button 1969 to change orbits and land on the Moon. He sounds like an alcholic to me. Has he been tested?

It's impressive how you perpetually prove yourself to be a fraud with every post. At least you're consistent. 
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 12:24:03 PM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
I just refer to the clowns saying that they, aboard on their spacecrafts, have changes orbits and landed on the Moon. They look like liars to me.
So how much fuel did they use to change orbits? They just pushed on a button and a computer did it. 1969.

That's an opinion and not helpful. You've been provided with all the data dozens of times by dozens of people regarding fuel capacity, burn durations, vectoring, distances, etc to change orbits. So based upon that data and your calculations can you show how they didn't have enough fuel to do what they claimed to do? This is literally the only way to make your challenge legitimate. Otherwise there's no benchmark as to why it couldn't be done.
According Dr. PhD, Buzz Aldrin he just pushed a button 1969 to change orbits and land on the Moon. He sounds like an alcholic to me. Has he been tested?

It's impressive how you perpetually prove yourself to be a fraud with every post. At least you're consistent.
I am not a fraud. Everyone knows who I am at http://heiwaco.com . I am not anonymous. Like you.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 17, 2020, 12:47:56 PM

Of course you can carry fuel but not enough to change speed and orbits.

Changing speed changes orbits.
A fart can change speed ergo orbit.



That's why Arianespace only sends very lightweight objects, 100% electronic, into one-way orbits.

No mechanical objects? Like a rocket engine?
As I understand it since 25 years Arianespace SA only sends their clients low weight, unmanned satellites/spacecrafts into one way orbits from Earth using rockets. After that the owners of the satellites/spacecrafts can do whatever the like with them.

"On August 15, 2020 Arianespace launched their Ariane 5 rocket with three satellites on board. One of which was the Galaxy-30, a geostationary communications satellite for Intelsat. Satellite is built by Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) and is planned to provide video distribution and broadcast services to customers in North America.
Galaxy 30 satellite is launched in tandem with MEV-2 vehicle. MEV-2, which stands for Mission Extension Vehicle-2, is the second servicing mission by NGIS. MEV-2 will rendezvous and dock with the Intelsat 1002 satellite in early 2021. Then, MEV-2 will use its own thrusters and fuel supply to control the satelliteís orbit, thereby extending its useful lifetime."

https://spacelaunchnow.me/launch/ariane-5-eca-galaxy-30-mev-2-bsat-4b/

Electronic only?

And you still haven't answered the questions: How much fuel is not enough? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.

Arianespace puts their clients satellites in orbits using its rockets. One rocket may put several satellites in different orbits in space. After that the rocket returns to Earth and burns up in the atmosphere. It has been done 100's of times.  In orbit the owners of the satellites may do whatever they want with their satellites.
If an owner wants to go to the Moon he must get out of the original orbit which requires fuel. Plenty clients of Arianespace say that their spacecrafts put into LEO by Arianespace have left LEO and gone off to asteroids using electronics, etc, but it is pure lies.

That's great and all that you think it's all lies, but you have no evidence for that claim.

Now, how much fuel is not enough to change orbits? In other words, what's your calculation for how much fuel would be necessary in relation to what a spacecraft could carry? It makes no sense to say they can't carry enough fuel if you don't say how much fuel would be needed versus capacity.
I just refer to the clowns saying that they, aboard on their spacecrafts, have changes orbits and landed on the Moon. They look like liars to me.
So how much fuel did they use to change orbits? They just pushed on a button and a computer did it. 1969.

That's an opinion and not helpful. You've been provided with all the data dozens of times by dozens of people regarding fuel capacity, burn durations, vectoring, distances, etc to change orbits. So based upon that data and your calculations can you show how they didn't have enough fuel to do what they claimed to do? This is literally the only way to make your challenge legitimate. Otherwise there's no benchmark as to why it couldn't be done.
According Dr. PhD, Buzz Aldrin he just pushed a button 1969 to change orbits and land on the Moon. He sounds like an alcholic to me. Has he been tested?

It's impressive how you perpetually prove yourself to be a fraud with every post. At least you're consistent.
I am not a fraud. Everyone knows who I am at http://heiwaco.com . I am not anonymous. Like you.

If you say so. But all evidence proves fraud. You can't even show how changing orbits is impossible when given all of the data showing how it is done. Your only response is that Buzz was drunk and rocket scientists won't return your calls. That makes for a fraudulent challenge. And that makes you a fraud. And just because you have a website doesn't mean you are actually Anders. I'm beginning to suspect that is all a fraud as well.

If you can't show a way how all of the data and calculations are wrong, then you literally have nothing. Sorry, that's just a fact.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 17, 2020, 01:15:59 PM
No, the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s in one direction in space and you approach it with a manned, teapot spacecraft at less velocity in another direction and ... ? You will never collide with the Moon or land on it. Only idiots believe that you can approach on object doing >1000 m/s speed and land on it.
The speed of the moon is known (1011 m/s) and its trajectory is known (a really big circle around the earth).  The speed of your spacecraft is also known and can be adjusted as needed.  So, what's so hard about aiming your spacecraft where you know the moon will be at a given time based on your speed?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 04:00:58 PM
No, the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s in one direction in space and you approach it with a manned, teapot spacecraft at less velocity in another direction and ... ? You will never collide with the Moon or land on it. Only idiots believe that you can approach on object doing >1000 m/s speed and land on it.
The speed of the moon is known (1011 m/s) and its trajectory is known (a really big circle around the earth).  The speed of your spacecraft is also known and can be adjusted as needed.  So, what's so hard about aiming your spacecraft where you know the moon will be at a given time based on your speed?
The Moon orbits the Earth in one plane and direction since  millions of years. It has more or less constant speed but the direction changes all the time. Your spacecraft is in another orbit around Earth with variable speed and direction after take off. If you think that you can blast off from a rotating Earth and arrive at the Moon, when it passes by at 1011 m/s in a known direction and that you can adjust your direction and speed so you can land, you are simply mistaken.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 17, 2020, 04:02:24 PM
Markjo, please stop repeating your nonsense about your spacecraft slowing down after departure Earth, but that it will speed up when approaching the Moon, etc, etc? The Moon has speed >1000 m/s in one direction and you approach it in another direction at lower speed so you will always miss the target
*sigh* I thought that we sorted this out already. 

Yes, the moon is moving at a known speed and in a known orbit.  That means that you can aim for where the moon will be based on your speed, rather than where it currently is.


No way to change direction and adjust speed and land on the Moon.
I'm sorry that you lack the imagination to see possible solutions to those problems.
No, the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s in one direction in space and you approach it with a manned, teapot spacecraft at less velocity in another direction and ... ? You will never collide with the Moon or land on it. Only idiots believe that you can approach on object doing >1000 m/s speed and land on it.

If what you say were true, you couldn't catch up to say a moving bus and then move between them?






OR even better example.  Jump out of one plane, catch up to another and then enter it.

Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 17, 2020, 04:45:24 PM
No, the Moon is moving at >1000 m/s in one direction in space and you approach it with a manned, teapot spacecraft at less velocity in another direction and ... ? You will never collide with the Moon or land on it. Only idiots believe that you can approach on object doing >1000 m/s speed and land on it.
The speed of the moon is known (1011 m/s) and its trajectory is known (a really big circle around the earth).  The speed of your spacecraft is also known and can be adjusted as needed.  So, what's so hard about aiming your spacecraft where you know the moon will be at a given time based on your speed?
The Moon orbits the Earth in one plane and direction since  millions of years. It has more or less constant speed but the direction changes all the time. Your spacecraft is in another orbit around Earth with variable speed and direction after take off. If you think that you can blast off from a rotating Earth and arrive at the Moon, when it passes by at 1011 m/s in a known direction and that you can adjust your direction and speed so you can land, you are simply mistaken.
Translation: I don't understand it so I assume nobody else does either.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 17, 2020, 08:55:24 PM
The Moon orbits the Earth in one plane and direction since  millions of years. It has more or less constant speed but the direction changes all the time.
The moon travels in at a constant speed a circle centered on the earth.  It's not that hard to predict where it's going to be at any given time.

Your spacecraft is in another orbit around Earth with variable speed and direction after take off.
The spacecraft speed varies based on known influences such as the gravitational influences of the earth, moon and sun, as well as the thrust applied by the rocket engine.

If you think that you can blast off from a rotating Earth and arrive at the Moon, when it passes by at 1011 m/s in a known direction and that you can adjust your direction and speed so you can land, you are simply mistaken.
Why am I wrong?  The rotation of the earth doesn't really matter.  Why is it so hard to control my speed and direction and speed in space?  It's not as if NASA and the Soviets didn't practice a number of times with unmanned orbiters and landers before risking human moon missions.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 17, 2020, 10:04:08 PM
The Moon orbits the Earth in one plane and direction since  millions of years. It has more or less constant speed but the direction changes all the time.
The moon travels in at a constant speed a circle centered on the earth.  It's not that hard to predict where it's going to be at any given time.

Your spacecraft is in another orbit around Earth with variable speed and direction after take off.
The spacecraft speed varies based on known influences such as the gravitational influences of the earth, moon and sun, as well as the thrust applied by the rocket engine.

If you think that you can blast off from a rotating Earth and arrive at the Moon, when it passes by at 1011 m/s in a known direction and that you can adjust your direction and speed so you can land, you are simply mistaken.
Why am I wrong?  The rotation of the earth doesn't really matter.  Why is it so hard to control my speed and direction and speed in space?  It's not as if NASA and the Soviets didn't practice a number of times with unmanned orbiters and landers before risking human moon missions.
Thanks for asking.
Taking off from a rotating planet Earth affects your departure velocity and direction. You really have to take off at the right time in the right location.
Your departure time affects the location of your target (the Moon).
Your own speed/direction will vary all the time due to gravity, etc.
But OK - you do it in two steps. First step is to move into high speed LEO. And in LEO, second step, you blast off to the Moon at the right location, time, direction, etc, in LEO. Your speed increases from 7000 to 11000 m/s which takes time. How do you do this trans lunar injection move?
And then, third step, you are in a modified orbit that will bring you to the Moon. You leave Earth LEO behind and fly away. Speed is reduced all the time and your direction is also changed and then the Moon is coming in sight. It moves at 1011 m/s in another direction. There are many trajectories to chose.
Say that your arrival speed is 1011 m/s at 90į vertically towards the Moon. You are still orbiting Earth. What is step FOUR?
You brake hard and land? Not possible!
So you, somewhere else in spave (location, time, speed, direction unknown in Earth orbit) you start orbiting the Moon! But how? At one moment you were orbiting Earth and then, suddenly, you are magically orbiting the Moon. But how?
Pushing a button and your onboard computer takes care of it automatically. Your spacecraft rocket pushes you from one orbit to another?
And the Soviets did it. ROTFL! They just produced communist propaganda lies all the time. Still do!
Let's face it. There is no way to leave an Earth orbit and start orbiting a Moon in it's 1011 m/s speed orbit around Earth.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 18, 2020, 07:04:45 PM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 18, 2020, 07:29:07 PM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
All objects ejected from planet Earth evidently orbits planet Earth at different altitudes, velocities and directions. E.g. Arianespace does it all the time with objects given to them. They use a rocket to put the object in orbit around Earth.
But how can an object orbiting Earth suddenly start orbiting the Moon, planet Mars och the Sun?
Nobody can explain it!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 18, 2020, 08:39:22 PM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
All objects ejected from planet Earth evidently orbits planet Earth at different altitudes, velocities and directions. E.g. Arianespace does it all the time with objects given to them. They use a rocket to put the object in orbit around Earth.
But how can an object orbiting Earth suddenly start orbiting the Moon, planet Mars och the Sun?
Nobody can explain it!

Now you're just lying. It's been explained so many times it's ridiculous. You've even been give the data and calculations to do so so many times it's ridiculous. And you've never once come back with or posted on your silly website any data/calculations of your own to show them being wrong. So I'm at a loss. Since you've moved into straight up lying mode there's really no where else to go with this if that's all we can expect.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 18, 2020, 10:13:44 PM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
All objects ejected from planet Earth evidently orbits planet Earth at different altitudes, velocities and directions. E.g. Arianespace does it all the time with objects given to them. They use a rocket to put the object in orbit around Earth.
But how can an object orbiting Earth suddenly start orbiting the Moon, planet Mars och the Sun?
Nobody can explain it!

Now you're just lying. It's been explained so many times it's ridiculous. You've even been give the data and calculations to do so so many times it's ridiculous. And you've never once come back with or posted on your silly website any data/calculations of your own to show them being wrong. So I'm at a loss. Since you've moved into straight up lying mode there's really no where else to go with this if that's all we can expect.
Sorry. I and Arianespace know all about circular orbits around Earth at different altitudes/velocities. No problems at all. Gravity and centrifugal forces in LEO or GEO are in balance and you are weightless and float around inside your craft. But then? You go off to the Moon. Velocity increases from 7000 to 11000 m/s and direction change by applying a rocket force for a certain time burning plenty fuel. Your orbit becomes very elliptical You aim forward of the moving Moon. When the rocket is switched off, gravity force slows you down and your direction changes all the time. You are no longer weightless. You can walk on the floor again! How you calculate your trajectory and arrival time at the Moon are unclear. They depend on your trajectory.
All agrees that you slow down and, if you miss the Moon, your velocity will become 0 and you'll drop back on Earth again at increased velocity. You are still in orbit. No problem at all.
But it is suggested that you arrive close to the Moon at a certain time, speed and direction and that you fire your rocket engine again for a few minutes and ... magic ... you leave your orbit around Earth and ... fantastic ... you start to orbit the Moon with its speed 1011 m/s around the Earth.
Nobody can explain how! The Apollo 11 clowns just pushed a button and a computer did the rest. And in orbit around the Moon you are weightless again.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: MouseWalker on October 18, 2020, 11:02:28 PM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
All objects ejected from planet Earth evidently orbits planet Earth at different altitudes, velocities and directions. E.g. Arianespace does it all the time with objects given to them. They use a rocket to put the object in orbit around Earth.
But how can an object orbiting Earth suddenly start orbiting the Moon, planet Mars och the Sun?
Nobody can explain it!

Now you're just lying. It's been explained so many times it's ridiculous. You've even been give the data and calculations to do so so many times it's ridiculous. And you've never once come back with or posted on your silly website any data/calculations of your own to show them being wrong. So I'm at a loss. Since you've moved into straight up lying mode there's really no where else to go with this if that's all we can expect.
Sorry. I and Arianespace know all about circular orbits around Earth at different altitudes/velocities. No problems at all. Gravity and centrifugal forces in LEO or GEO are in balance and you are weightless and float around inside your craft. But then? You go off to the Moon. Velocity increases from 7000 to 11000 m/s and direction change by applying a rocket force for a certain time burning plenty fuel. Your orbit becomes very elliptical You aim forward of the moving Moon. When the rocket is switched off, gravity force slows you down and your direction changes all the time. You are no longer weightless. You can walk on the floor again! How you calculate your trajectory and arrival time at the Moon are unclear. They depend on your trajectory.
All agrees that you slow down and, if you miss the Moon, your velocity will become 0 and you'll drop back on Earth again at increased velocity. You are still in orbit. No problem at all.
But it is suggested that you arrive close to the Moon at a certain time, speed and direction and that you fire your rocket engine again for a few minutes and ... magic ... you leave your orbit around Earth and ... fantastic ... you start to orbit the Moon with its speed 1011 m/s around the Earth.
Nobody can explain how! The Apollo 11 clowns just pushed a button and a computer did the rest. And in orbit around the Moon you are weightless again.
The problem here is that you almost have it right, to get to the moon you have a short burn, Coast there and when you arrive at the Moon,  you have a second burn to put you in orbit around the moon. From there  you separate your landing craft  land do your business on the surface and return to the orbital craft, discard the lander, then do your burn to return to earth.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 19, 2020, 01:41:45 AM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
All objects ejected from planet Earth evidently orbits planet Earth at different altitudes, velocities and directions. E.g. Arianespace does it all the time with objects given to them. They use a rocket to put the object in orbit around Earth.
But how can an object orbiting Earth suddenly start orbiting the Moon, planet Mars och the Sun?
Nobody can explain it!

Now you're just lying. It's been explained so many times it's ridiculous. You've even been give the data and calculations to do so so many times it's ridiculous. And you've never once come back with or posted on your silly website any data/calculations of your own to show them being wrong. So I'm at a loss. Since you've moved into straight up lying mode there's really no where else to go with this if that's all we can expect.
Sorry. I and Arianespace know all about circular orbits around Earth at different altitudes/velocities. No problems at all. Gravity and centrifugal forces in LEO or GEO are in balance and you are weightless and float around inside your craft. But then? You go off to the Moon. Velocity increases from 7000 to 11000 m/s and direction change by applying a rocket force for a certain time burning plenty fuel. Your orbit becomes very elliptical You aim forward of the moving Moon. When the rocket is switched off, gravity force slows you down and your direction changes all the time. You are no longer weightless. You can walk on the floor again! How you calculate your trajectory and arrival time at the Moon are unclear. They depend on your trajectory.
All agrees that you slow down and, if you miss the Moon, your velocity will become 0 and you'll drop back on Earth again at increased velocity. You are still in orbit. No problem at all.
But it is suggested that you arrive close to the Moon at a certain time, speed and direction and that you fire your rocket engine again for a few minutes and ... magic ... you leave your orbit around Earth and ... fantastic ... you start to orbit the Moon with its speed 1011 m/s around the Earth.
Nobody can explain how! The Apollo 11 clowns just pushed a button and a computer did the rest. And in orbit around the Moon you are weightless again.
The problem here is that you almost have it right, to get to the moon you have a short burn, Coast there and when you arrive at the Moon,  you have a second burn to put you in orbit around the moon. From there  you separate your landing craft  land do your business on the surface and return to the orbital craft, discard the lander, then do your burn to return to earth.
Sorry, it doesn't work! Arriving close to the Moon at 1000 m/s speed, short burns getting out of one orbit and entering another, landing, having a piss at the South Pole, take off, docking, short burn, dropping down on Earth, arriving at atmosphere with 11000 m/s speed, braking by friction, landing in the ocean close to a ship, bla, bla, bla. On what drugs are you?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 19, 2020, 06:24:41 AM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
I have provided links to several textbooks about orbital mechanics but you obviously just ignored them.  Here's another one for you to deny.
http://www.nssc.ac.cn/wxzygx/weixin/201607/P020160718380095698873.pdf
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 19, 2020, 10:35:19 AM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
I have provided links to several textbooks about orbital mechanics but you obviously just ignored them.  Here's another one for you to deny.
http://www.nssc.ac.cn/wxzygx/weixin/201607/P020160718380095698873.pdf
Yes, Thanks a lot. But topic is something else. However, Howard D. Curtis of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Florida, is a 2005 expert of space travel. He likes Hohmann transfers where it  take years to go from one orbit to another, if you are there at the right time in 3D space to do it, when the orbits contact each other, when you are there.
You cannot go to the Moon with his ideas. This Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Florida, (https://daytonabeach.erau.edu/ ) looks like Disney Land to me. How much does it cost to join? Nobody knows.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 19, 2020, 11:58:50 AM
We have provided information to answer all of those questions numerous times.  What more can we do to satisfy you?
Why do you say that? Who has provided any info to me or anyone about changing orbits in space?
I have provided links to several textbooks about orbital mechanics but you obviously just ignored them.  Here's another one for you to deny.
http://www.nssc.ac.cn/wxzygx/weixin/201607/P020160718380095698873.pdf
Yes, Thanks a lot. But topic is something else. However, Howard D. Curtis of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Florida, is a 2005 expert of space travel. He likes Hohmann transfers where it  take years to go from one orbit to another, if you are there at the right time in 3D space to do it, when the orbits contact each other, when you are there.
You cannot go to the Moon with his ideas. This Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Daytona Beach, Florida, (https://daytonabeach.erau.edu/ ) looks like Disney Land to me. How much does it cost to join? Nobody knows.

See lying once again. How is a text titled "Orbital Mechanics for Engineering students" not relevant to the topic of "Orbits. How do they work"?
The University "looks like Disney Land to me."? What does that have to do with anything? Just more lies and opinion. You never provide any evidence. Just lies.
It's sad really.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 19, 2020, 01:15:31 PM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 19, 2020, 04:18:51 PM
Anders' only degree is in porta potty cleaning and repair.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 19, 2020, 07:44:30 PM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
In Sweden until 1971! I paid SEK 0:- for it. The mechanical engineering education I got was very good. Kept me busy all my life.
But topic is about orbits in space. And that you cannot shift from one orbit to another, e.g. around Earth (orbiting the Sun) to around the Moon (orbiting Earth).
Only people suffering from cognitive dissonance think otherwise.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 19, 2020, 09:39:48 PM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
In Sweden until 1971! I paid SEK 0:- for it. The mechanical engineering education I got was very good. Kept me busy all my life.
But topic is about orbits in space. And that you cannot shift from one orbit to another, e.g. around Earth (orbiting the Sun) to around the Moon (orbiting Earth).
Only people suffering from cognitive dissonance think otherwise.

Orbital mechanics and mechanical engineering are not mutually inclusive.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 20, 2020, 03:32:07 AM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
In Sweden until 1971! I paid SEK 0:- for it. The mechanical engineering education I got was very good. Kept me busy all my life.
But topic is about orbits in space. And that you cannot shift from one orbit to another, e.g. around Earth (orbiting the Sun) to around the Moon (orbiting Earth).
Only people suffering from cognitive dissonance think otherwise.

Orbital mechanics and mechanical engineering are not mutually inclusive.
No, the basics are the same. I'll pay you Ä1M when you show me wrong - http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm
You sound poor so have a go.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 20, 2020, 04:20:55 AM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
In Sweden until 1971! I paid SEK 0:- for it. The mechanical engineering education I got was very good. Kept me busy all my life.
But topic is about orbits in space. And that you cannot shift from one orbit to another, e.g. around Earth (orbiting the Sun) to around the Moon (orbiting Earth).
Only people suffering from cognitive dissonance think otherwise.

Orbital mechanics and mechanical engineering are not mutually inclusive.
No, the basics are the same. I'll pay you Ä1M when you show me wrong - http://heiwaco.com/chall.htm
You sound poor so have a go.

You've already been shown how orbits work and how a craft can change orbit. With data and calculations, etc. And so far your only response has been, "impossible". Without providing any evidence to back up your denials. So there is really no point as you don't have a challenge and are unwilling to examine and reply to the evidence provided.
Are you just desperate for attention? You've even gone so far as to bump the Ä1M challenge thread after it lay dormant for a couple of weeks even though it has, for some bizarre reason, the luxury of being stickied. I think it's time we get that thread un-stickied. Not to mention all you really do is try and drive people back to your site from here. Which is a violation and has been reported. What's your game?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 20, 2020, 06:12:51 AM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
In Sweden until 1971! I paid SEK 0:- for it. The mechanical engineering education I got was very good. Kept me busy all my life.
But topic is about orbits in space.
I didn't ask you about your mechanical engineering education.  Where did you receive your orbital mechanics education?  Do you honestly think that you know everything there is to know about orbital mechanics?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 20, 2020, 07:20:44 AM
Anders, where did you receive your education in orbital mechanics?  How much did you spend for that degree?
In Sweden until 1971! I paid SEK 0:- for it. The mechanical engineering education I got was very good. Kept me busy all my life.
But topic is about orbits in space.
I didn't ask you about your mechanical engineering education.  Where did you receive your orbital mechanics education?  Do you honestly think that you know everything there is to know about orbital mechanics?
As far as I am concerned orbital mechanics is about spacecraft trajectories, including orbital maneuvers, orbital plane changes, and interplanetary transfers, and is used by mission planners to predict the results of propulsive maneuvers in space.
Orbits are elliptical, with the heavier body (a star/sun/planet/moon) at one focus of the ellipse and the spacecraft moving around the star/sun/planet/moon. A special case of this is a circular orbit (a circle is a special case of ellipse) with the star/sun/planet/moon at the center and the spacecraft flying around.
There is no way that a spacecraft can jump from one orbit to another, I have been taught. You sound like suffering from cognitive dissonance. Do you really suggest that a spacecraft can leave one orbit around a star/sun/planet/moon and start an orbit around another star/sun/planet/moon?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 20, 2020, 08:57:59 AM
As far as I am concerned orbital mechanics is about spacecraft trajectories, including orbital maneuvers, orbital plane changes, and interplanetary transfers, and is used by mission planners to predict the results of propulsive maneuvers in space.
You still haven't answered my question.  Where did you learn about orbital mechanics?

There is no way that a spacecraft can jump from one orbit to another, I have been taught.
Who has ever claimed that spacecraft can "jump" from orbit to another?  The proper term is to "transfer" from one orbit to another.

Do you really suggest that a spacecraft can leave one orbit around a star/sun/planet/moon and start an orbit around another star/sun/planet/moon?
Arianespace seems to think that it's possible.
Quote from: https://spacenews.com/arianespace-targets-2023-for-lunar-ariane-6-rideshare-mission/
WASHINGTON — European launch provider Arianespace is planning a rideshare mission to the moon in 2023 as an early step toward increasing Europe’s involvement in lunar activity, CEO Stťphane IsraŽl said Oct. 22. 

IsraŽl, speaking at the 70th International Astronautical Congress here, said the rideshare mission will be able to deliver 8,500 kilograms into a lunar transfer orbit. Orbiters and/or landers would reach the moon three days after liftoff, he said.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 20, 2020, 09:48:51 AM
As far as I am concerned orbital mechanics is about spacecraft trajectories, including orbital maneuvers, orbital plane changes, and interplanetary transfers, and is used by mission planners to predict the results of propulsive maneuvers in space.
You still haven't answered my question.  Where did you learn about orbital mechanics?

There is no way that a spacecraft can jump from one orbit to another, I have been taught.
Who has ever claimed that spacecraft can "jump" from orbit to another?  The proper term is to "transfer" from one orbit to another.

Do you really suggest that a spacecraft can leave one orbit around a star/sun/planet/moon and start an orbit around another star/sun/planet/moon?
Arianespace seems to think that it's possible.
Quote from: https://spacenews.com/arianespace-targets-2023-for-lunar-ariane-6-rideshare-mission/
WASHINGTON ó European launch provider Arianespace is planning a rideshare mission to the moon in 2023 as an early step toward increasing Europeís involvement in lunar activity, CEO Stťphane IsraŽl said Oct. 22. 

IsraŽl, speaking at the 70th International Astronautical Congress here, said the rideshare mission will be able to deliver 8,500 kilograms into a lunar transfer orbit. Orbiters and/or landers would reach the moon three days after liftoff, he said.
Rideshare! Lunar transfer orbit? What on Earth is it? Arianespace (CEO Stťphane IsraŽl) can only put max 400 kg in orbits around Earth and after that the owners of the satellites can do what ever they like with them. But not transfer them to other orbits. No way.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 20, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Rideshare! Lunar transfer orbit? What on Earth is it? Arianespace (CEO Stťphane IsraŽl) can only put max 400 kg in orbits around Earth and after that the owners of the satellites can do what ever they like with them. But not transfer them to other orbits. No way.
It seems that you're a shareholder that doesn't even know the product line that you invested in.  From the Ariane 5 User Manual:
https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ariane5_Users-Manual_October2016.pdf
Quote
The heavy lift capability of the launcher, associated with the large flexibility of the  upper  part  configurations  and  Arianespace  long demonstrated  ability  to manage  the  shared  launch  policy,  enables  Ariane  5  to  carry  any  type  of spacecraft, from the lightest ones (1000 kg or less) to the tallest and heaviest ones (9500 kg or even more), in shared or single launch, towards the standard GTO.

Also, the lunar ride share is for the upcoming Ariane 6.
https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Mua-6_Issue-1_Revision-0_March-2018.pdf
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 20, 2020, 11:54:14 AM
Rideshare! Lunar transfer orbit? What on Earth is it? Arianespace (CEO Stťphane IsraŽl) can only put max 400 kg in orbits around Earth and after that the owners of the satellites can do what ever they like with them. But not transfer them to other orbits. No way.
It seems that you're a shareholder that doesn't even know the product line that you invested in.  From the Ariane 5 User Manual:
https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Ariane5_Users-Manual_October2016.pdf
Quote
The heavy lift capability of the launcher, associated with the large flexibility of the  upper  part  configurations  and  Arianespace  long demonstrated  ability  to manage  the  shared  launch  policy,  enables  Ariane  5  to  carry  any  type  of spacecraft, from the lightest ones (1000 kg or less) to the tallest and heaviest ones (9500 kg or even more), in shared or single launch, towards the standard GTO.

Also, the lunar ride share is for the upcoming Ariane 6.
https://www.arianespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Mua-6_Issue-1_Revision-0_March-2018.pdf
You are right. Imagine Arianespace say they can send a spacecraft into an elliptic orbit around Earth that reach where the Moon orbits Earth at 385 000 km altitude after unknown time. There the spacecraft has vertical velocity 0 m/s and will start to drop back to Earth again, while the Moon speeds by at >1000 m/s in the horizontal direction and will return after 28 days. Fantastic. Now - how does the spacecraft change its orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 20, 2020, 01:13:44 PM
You are right.
Thank you.

Imagine Arianespace say they can send a spacecraft into an elliptic orbit around Earth that reach where the Moon orbits Earth at 385 000 km altitude after unknown time. There the spacecraft has vertical velocity 0 m/s and will start to drop back to Earth again, while the Moon speeds by at >1000 m/s in the horizontal direction and will return after 28 days. Fantastic. Now - how does the spacecraft change its orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon?
Why don't you ask Arianespace at their next shareholder meeting?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 20, 2020, 06:43:19 PM
You are right.
Thank you.

Imagine Arianespace say they can send a spacecraft into an elliptic orbit around Earth that reach where the Moon orbits Earth at 385 000 km altitude after unknown time. There the spacecraft has vertical velocity 0 m/s and will start to drop back to Earth again, while the Moon speeds by at >1000 m/s in the horizontal direction and will return after 28 days. Fantastic. Now - how does the spacecraft change its orbit around Earth to start orbiting the Moon?
Why don't you ask Arianespace at their next shareholder meeting?
No, I ask the question here. Your spacecraft MARKJO orbits Earth in a circle at 300 km altitude at >7000 m/s. Then you fire a rocket so the orbit becomes elliptic with a maximum distance of 385 000 km (where the Moon orbits Earth in a circle 1011 m/s during 28 days) and a minimum altitude 300 km.
When your spacecraft is at 385 000 km altitude its vertical velocity is 0 for a second after an elliptic trajectory from Earth of unknown duration. After that it drops back to Earth where at 300 km altitude it is >11 000 m/s. After that it makes a new trip elliptic around Earth.
How do you plan the trip so you meet the Moon at 385 000 km altitude? Your vertical speed is 0 m/s. How do you fire your rocket to start orbiting the Moon passing by at 1011 m/s. If you arrive 1 minute too late the Moon is >60 kms away.


Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 20, 2020, 07:15:33 PM
How do you plan the trip so you meet the Moon at 385 000 km altitude?
The first step is to convince myself that the trip is possible.  You don't seem to be able to get past that step.  After that, it's just a matter of learning enough about orbital mechanics to be able to do the math required to plan the trip.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 20, 2020, 10:28:50 PM
How do you plan the trip so you meet the Moon at 385 000 km altitude?
The first step is to convince myself that the trip is possible.  You don't seem to be able to get past that step.  After that, it's just a matter of learning enough about orbital mechanics to be able to do the math required to plan the trip.
Hm, I fully agree with Arianespace that we can put a satellite/spacecraft in high speed/altitude orbits around Earth using an external rocket. No problem at  all. I have seen many rockets fly away with spacecrafts on top for it. But then?
How to reach a moving moon or other planet far away with a little spacecraft, start orbiting it and land on it?
Space travel experts say it is possible but cannot explain it. They say it is just done because a rocket took off from Earth.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 21, 2020, 06:08:04 AM
How to reach a moving moon or other planet far away with a little spacecraft, start orbiting it and land on it?
Space travel experts say it is possible but cannot explain it.
Space travel experts can and do explain it, but you refuse to believe them.  That's more of a you problem than a them problem.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 21, 2020, 06:49:34 AM
How to reach a moving moon or other planet far away with a little spacecraft, start orbiting it and land on it?
Space travel experts say it is possible but cannot explain it.
Space travel experts can and do explain it, but you refuse to believe them.  That's more of a you problem than a them problem.
No space expert has so far explained how a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth at variable speed/direction in one plane in space and approaching a celestial body (moon/planet) orbiting something else (planet/sun) in same space but in another plane and high speed can leave the first orbit around Earth and start orbiting the celestial body orbiting something else. It is suggested that a FORCE is applied to the spacecraft (by a rocket engine) in a certain location/ direction and duration in space and ... magic ... the spacecraft orbits the celestial body (and not Earth).
Where can I find a simple description of it?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Unconvinced on October 21, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
How to reach a moving moon or other planet far away with a little spacecraft, start orbiting it and land on it?
Space travel experts say it is possible but cannot explain it.
Space travel experts can and do explain it, but you refuse to believe them.  That's more of a you problem than a them problem.
No space expert has so far explained how a spacecraft orbiting planet Earth at variable speed/direction in one plane in space and approaching a celestial body (moon/planet) orbiting something else (planet/sun) in same space but in another plane and high speed can leave the first orbit around Earth and start orbiting the celestial body orbiting something else. It is suggested that a FORCE is applied to the spacecraft (by a rocket engine) in a certain location/ direction and duration in space and ... magic ... the spacecraft orbits the celestial body (and not Earth).
Where can I find a simple description of it?

I phoned Arianespace to ask them for calculations showing itís impossible to leave earth orbit and they told me to fuck off.

I rest my case.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 21, 2020, 03:14:57 PM
It is suggested that a FORCE is applied to the spacecraft (by a rocket engine) in a certain location/ direction and duration in space and ... magic ... the spacecraft orbits the celestial body (and not Earth).
Where can I find a simple description of it?
*sigh*
The moon orbits the earth.
The earth orbits the sun.
The solar system orbits the black hole at the center of the Milky Way.
Things orbit the strongest gravitational influence.
If the moon exerts a stronger gravitational influence on a spacecraft than the earth or the sun, then that spacecraft will orbit the moon.  Not magic, just physics (which appear to be the same thing to you).
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 21, 2020, 07:26:37 PM
It is suggested that a FORCE is applied to the spacecraft (by a rocket engine) in a certain location/ direction and duration in space and ... magic ... the spacecraft orbits the celestial body (and not Earth).
Where can I find a simple description of it?
*sigh*
The moon orbits the earth.
The earth orbits the sun.
The solar system orbits the black hole at the center of the Milky Way.
Things orbit the strongest gravitational influence.
If the moon exerts a stronger gravitational influence on a spacecraft than the earth or the sun, then that spacecraft will orbit the moon.  Not magic, just physics (which appear to be the same thing to you).
So my spacecraft orbits Earth at variable speed/altitude in one plane and I approach the Moon that also orbits Earth but at constant speed/altitude in another plane. When does the Moon exert a stronger gravitational influence than Earth on my spacecraft, so I suddenly start to orbit the Moon?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 21, 2020, 07:39:02 PM
It is suggested that a FORCE is applied to the spacecraft (by a rocket engine) in a certain location/ direction and duration in space and ... magic ... the spacecraft orbits the celestial body (and not Earth).
Where can I find a simple description of it?
*sigh*
The moon orbits the earth.
The earth orbits the sun.
The solar system orbits the black hole at the center of the Milky Way.
Things orbit the strongest gravitational influence.
If the moon exerts a stronger gravitational influence on a spacecraft than the earth or the sun, then that spacecraft will orbit the moon.  Not magic, just physics (which appear to be the same thing to you).
So my spacecraft orbits Earth at variable speed/altitude in one plane and I approach the Moon that also orbits Earth but at constant speed/altitude in another plane. When does the Moon exert a stronger gravitational influence than Earth on my spacecraft, so I suddenly start to orbit the Moon?
Pretty much once you get past the L1 point and enter the moon's gravity well.  That is assuming that you adjust your velocity correctly for your intended orbit, of course.  Orbit transfers make more sense when you understand the basics of gravitational influence of celestial bodies.
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/J8hJs.jpg)
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 21, 2020, 11:45:06 PM
It is suggested that a FORCE is applied to the spacecraft (by a rocket engine) in a certain location/ direction and duration in space and ... magic ... the spacecraft orbits the celestial body (and not Earth).
Where can I find a simple description of it?
*sigh*
The moon orbits the earth.
The earth orbits the sun.
The solar system orbits the black hole at the center of the Milky Way.
Things orbit the strongest gravitational influence.
If the moon exerts a stronger gravitational influence on a spacecraft than the earth or the sun, then that spacecraft will orbit the moon.  Not magic, just physics (which appear to be the same thing to you).
So my spacecraft orbits Earth at variable speed/altitude in one plane and I approach the Moon that also orbits Earth but at constant speed/altitude in another plane. When does the Moon exert a stronger gravitational influence than Earth on my spacecraft, so I suddenly start to orbit the Moon?
Pretty much once you get past the L1 point and enter the moon's gravity well.  That is assuming that you adjust your velocity correctly for your intended orbit, of course.  Orbit transfers make more sense when you understand the basics of gravitational influence of celestial bodies.
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/J8hJs.jpg)
I know about gravity forces. I know also that to land on the Moon you have to approach it and it means that I will pass the invisible L1 point. Do you suggest that I just start orbiting the Moon when passing L1?
Actually point L1 is moving at 1011 m/s speed and is invisble so how do I know where it is? And why do I start orbiting from there? Why don't I drop straight down on the Moon and crash?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 22, 2020, 06:13:42 AM
I know about gravity forces.
Your post history suggests otherwise.

Do you suggest that I just start orbiting the Moon when passing L1?
Whether you orbit the moon or not depends on your speed and direction relative to the moon after you pass L1. 

Actually point L1 is moving at 1011 m/s speed and is invisble so how do I know where it is?
I'm sorry but I thought that you were carefully planning your trip to the moon and knew how to do the math to determine where L1 and the moon would be at any given time along your trip.  If you want to just hop in your spacecraft and blast your way towards the moon without lots of careful planning and simulations, then obviously you're headed for disaster.

And why do I start orbiting from there?
Because the moon's gravitational influence is stronger than the earth's after you pass L1.  I thought that you said that you understood gravity and orbits.

Why don't I drop straight down on the Moon and crash?
For the same reason that earth orbiting satellites don't drop straight down and crash.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 22, 2020, 12:31:25 PM
I know about gravity forces.
Your post history suggests otherwise.

Do you suggest that I just start orbiting the Moon when passing L1?
Whether you orbit the moon or not depends on your speed and direction relative to the moon after you pass L1. 

Actually point L1 is moving at 1011 m/s speed and is invisble so how do I know where it is?
I'm sorry but I thought that you were carefully planning your trip to the moon and knew how to do the math to determine where L1 and the moon would be at any given time along your trip.  If you want to just hop in your spacecraft and blast your way towards the moon without lots of careful planning and simulations, then obviously you're headed for disaster.

And why do I start orbiting from there?
Because the moon's gravitational influence is stronger than the earth's after you pass L1.  I thought that you said that you understood gravity and orbits.

Why don't I drop straight down on the Moon and crash?
For the same reason that earth orbiting satellites don't drop straight down and crash.
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: sokarul on October 22, 2020, 01:13:57 PM
There is a fool in this thread but itís not markjo.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: markjo on October 22, 2020, 01:29:47 PM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 22, 2020, 03:37:02 PM
Anders thinks he is Rain Man.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 22, 2020, 06:30:08 PM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: MouseWalker on October 22, 2020, 10:54:16 PM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 22, 2020, 11:43:00 PM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
But how do I arrive at and to Coast (?) at an invisible point L1 that moves at 1011 m/s in space around Earth? Of course I must arrive there at same speed and direction, but I am already in another orbit around Earth with another, completely different speed/direction! And what do I do then? Fire retrorockets to start obiting the Moon? What drugs are you on?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 23, 2020, 12:09:40 AM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
But how do I arrive at and to Coast (?) at an invisible point L1 that moves at 1011 m/s in space around Earth?

Math and physics.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 23, 2020, 01:18:20 AM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
But how do I arrive at and to Coast (?) at an invisible point L1 that moves at 1011 m/s in space around Earth?

Math and physics.
But Neil and Buzz knew nothing about math and physics. They were pilots of war planes napalm bombing Asians! Regardless, 1969 they flew to point L1 in space, fired rockets, started orbit the Moon, left that orbit and landed on the Moon, pissed, took off again to orbit the Moon, they arrived back at point L1, fired rockets, left Moon orbit and dropped straight back on Earth ... into an Ocean ... where POTUS Nixon was crusing around ... on some summer vaccation.
Only complete nutcases believe this nonsense.  Are you a nutcase?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Stash on October 23, 2020, 01:47:02 AM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
But how do I arrive at and to Coast (?) at an invisible point L1 that moves at 1011 m/s in space around Earth?

Math and physics.
But Neil and Buzz knew nothing about math and physics. They were pilots of war planes napalm bombing Asians! Regardless, 1969 they flew to point L1 in space, fired rockets, started orbit the Moon, left that orbit and landed on the Moon, pissed, took off again to orbit the Moon, they arrived back at point L1, fired rockets, left Moon orbit and dropped straight back on Earth ... into an Ocean ... where POTUS Nixon was crusing around ... on some summer vaccation.
Only complete nutcases believe this nonsense.  Are you a nutcase?

What do Neil and Buzz have to do with math and physics? And what do Neil and Buzz have to do with the topic? We're simply talking about changing orbits and how it's done. It's done by first understanding physics and doing the math. Then engineering an accommodating solution. Like pretty much for anything that needs to move with precision. Like engineering a 240 meter tanker. Lots of math and physics required.
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 23, 2020, 03:32:58 AM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
But how do I arrive at and to Coast (?) at an invisible point L1 that moves at 1011 m/s in space around Earth?

Math and physics.
But Neil and Buzz knew nothing about math and physics. They were pilots of war planes napalm bombing Asians! Regardless, 1969 they flew to point L1 in space, fired rockets, started orbit the Moon, left that orbit and landed on the Moon, pissed, took off again to orbit the Moon, they arrived back at point L1, fired rockets, left Moon orbit and dropped straight back on Earth ... into an Ocean ... where POTUS Nixon was crusing around ... on some summer vaccation.
Only complete nutcases believe this nonsense.  Are you a nutcase?
Yes, only complete nutcases believe they knew nothing about math and physics and the other crap you posted. Thanks for admitting you are a complete nutcase which the rest of us knew all along. All you've done here is prove your complete ignorance on the topic. While amusing, it is also very sad for you.  You clearly don't even try to understand yet you still act as if you are an authority on the subject.

Thanks for the humor!
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: Heiwa on October 23, 2020, 04:04:57 AM
Markjo - you have proven you are an idiot. Pls stop making a fool of your self.
If you think that understanding physics makes me an idiot, then I suppose I'm an idiot.  But what does that make you?
I am a normal person with a name and address - http://heiwaco.tripod.com/cv.htm - and I want to know how a spacecraft shifts from an orbit around Earth to an orbit around the Moon.
You suggest that the spacecraft should aim for an invisible point L1 in space that orbits at 1011 m/s in space around Earth in a circle. L1 apparently is a location in space where Earth and Moon gravity forces on a spacecraft are equal.
When the spacecraft arrives at point L1 it fires its engine and starts orbiting the Moon.
Let me repeat: How does a spacecraft arrive at point L1 and start orbiting Earth with it at constant speed 1011 m/s? The space craft is already orbiting Earth with variable speed/direction in another plane/orbit.
This statement and your previous statements are an indication that you have no idea how orbital mechanics work,  for one thing you do not come to a stop at the L1 position, you continue to Coast by and tell you reach the moon at which time you fire retrorockets to put yourself in orbit.
P.S. the L1 position is like a mile marker on your trip that is the half way point.
But how do I arrive at and to Coast (?) at an invisible point L1 that moves at 1011 m/s in space around Earth?

Math and physics.
But Neil and Buzz knew nothing about math and physics. They were pilots of war planes napalm bombing Asians! Regardless, 1969 they flew to point L1 in space, fired rockets, started orbit the Moon, left that orbit and landed on the Moon, pissed, took off again to orbit the Moon, they arrived back at point L1, fired rockets, left Moon orbit and dropped straight back on Earth ... into an Ocean ... where POTUS Nixon was crusing around ... on some summer vaccation.
Only complete nutcases believe this nonsense.  Are you a nutcase?
Yes, only complete nutcases believe they knew nothing about math and physics and the other crap you posted. Thanks for admitting you are a complete nutcase which the rest of us knew all along. All you've done here is prove your complete ignorance on the topic. While amusing, it is also very sad for you.  You clearly don't even try to understand yet you still act as if you are an authority on the subject.

Thanks for the humor!
Topic is Orbits. How do they work? So you orbit Earth in your spacecraft and want to orbit the Moon. What do you do? You fly to point L1 in space that orbits Earth at 1011 m/s speed and and altitude > 300 000 km and there you fire some rockets of your spacecraft, which then starts to orbit the Moon. Buzz did it 1969. But he is a tragic alchoholic today and probably also 1969 so he cannot be trusted. So how do changes orbits at point L1 at high speed? And how to find L1?
Title: Re: Orbits. How do they work?
Post by: frenat on October 23, 2020, 05:05:04 AM