The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Technology, Science & Alt Science => Topic started by: Curiouser and Curiouser on July 30, 2020, 10:10:40 AM

Title: Perseverence
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on July 30, 2020, 10:10:40 AM
On its way.

https://www.space.com/news/live/mars-perseverance-rover-updates

Mars Helicopter (Ingenuity), onboard microphones, future sample return canisters. Exciting stuff!
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on July 30, 2020, 10:18:50 AM
On its way.

https://www.space.com/news/live/mars-perseverance-rover-updates

Mars Helicopter (Ingenuity), onboard microphones, future sample return canisters. Exciting stuff!

Yeah, a helicopter on Mars!

Lets hope they didn't forget to convert from Meters to Miles this time. :)
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on July 30, 2020, 11:24:51 AM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?

(https://www.filmquest.co/workspace/uploads/locations/description/the-martian-locations_hero-image.jpg)

(https://www.arbuturian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Wadi-Rum-sunset.jpg)

(https://desertmarscamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1ac5f020-23cf-4e51-84cb-11fda88d2053.jpg)
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on July 30, 2020, 12:00:52 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?

Whatever.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Stash on July 30, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?

(https://www.filmquest.co/workspace/uploads/locations/description/the-martian-locations_hero-image.jpg)

(https://www.arbuturian.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Wadi-Rum-sunset.jpg)

(https://desertmarscamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/1ac5f020-23cf-4e51-84cb-11fda88d2053.jpg)

I agree, the Mars photos do look beautiful. Those aren't Mars, though they look nice too. The real Mars photos are amazing. You should check them out.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on July 30, 2020, 12:42:24 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?
Is there any particular reason why you think that Mars shouldn't bear even the slightest resemblance to certain parts of Earth?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on July 30, 2020, 12:51:14 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?
Is there any particular reason why you think that Mars shouldn't bear even the slightest resemblance to certain parts of Earth?

What's wrong? Are the pictures I posted nothing like the Mars you have come to love and know? They are exactly what you have come to know
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on July 30, 2020, 12:53:13 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?
Is there any particular reason why you think that Mars shouldn't bear even the slightest resemblance to certain parts of Earth?

What's wrong? Are the pictures I posted nothing like the Mars you have come to love and know? They are exactly what you have come to know
That doesn't answer my question.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on July 30, 2020, 01:06:56 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?

It does!

Nothing like gazing on the wonder of our universe and feeling pride at humanity's accomplishments.  We aren't all war and hate after all.

(https://earthsky.org/upl/2015/12/ItIsNotArizonaOrUtahThisIsPlanetMarsAsSeenByCuriosityOnOctober2015CreditsNASA-JPL-Caltech-MSSS-e1451419982977.jpg)

(https://earthsky.org/upl/2015/12/DarkRocksOnRouteToTheMountainsCreditsNASA-JPL-Caltech-MSSS1-e1451419948114.jpg)
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on July 30, 2020, 01:08:56 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?

It does!

Nothing like gazing on the wonder of our universe and feeling pride at humanity's accomplishments.  We aren't all war and hate after all.

(https://earthsky.org/upl/2015/12/ItIsNotArizonaOrUtahThisIsPlanetMarsAsSeenByCuriosityOnOctober2015CreditsNASA-JPL-Caltech-MSSS-e1451419982977.jpg)

(https://earthsky.org/upl/2015/12/DarkRocksOnRouteToTheMountainsCreditsNASA-JPL-Caltech-MSSS1-e1451419948114.jpg)


This is true
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on July 30, 2020, 01:15:47 PM

Is that a gopher?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on July 30, 2020, 01:40:38 PM

What's wrong? Are the pictures I posted nothing like the Mars you have come to love and know? They are exactly what you have come to know

Hardly.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on July 30, 2020, 01:45:51 PM
Yeah. Doesn't Mars look beautiful?

It does!

Nothing like gazing on the wonder of our universe and feeling pride at humanity's accomplishments.  We aren't all war and hate after all.

(https://earthsky.org/upl/2015/12/ItIsNotArizonaOrUtahThisIsPlanetMarsAsSeenByCuriosityOnOctober2015CreditsNASA-JPL-Caltech-MSSS-e1451419982977.jpg)

(https://earthsky.org/upl/2015/12/DarkRocksOnRouteToTheMountainsCreditsNASA-JPL-Caltech-MSSS1-e1451419948114.jpg)


This is true

Artists can produce wonderful images too.  It's possible to enjoy both reality and art.  All the pictures posted in the thread so far are beautiful.

Your images were nice, and the average person can easily get them confused with real pictures.

Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on July 30, 2020, 01:52:29 PM
My images posted are real photos. Not some artist rendition
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on July 30, 2020, 02:12:08 PM
My images posted are real photos. Not some artist rendition

Real photos of Earth.  Which is prettier than Mars I'll admit.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Stash on July 30, 2020, 04:38:26 PM

Is that a gopher?

My understanding, an Arctic Lemming.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on July 31, 2020, 03:31:10 PM
Lets hope they didn't forget to convert from Meters to Miles this time. :)
They didn't forget the last few times either.  But the may have forgotten to adjust the thermostat:
Quote from: https://www.space.com/mars-rover-perseverance-safe-mode-after-launch.html
"Data indicate the spacecraft had entered a state known as safe mode, likely because a part of the spacecraft was a little colder than expected while Mars 2020 was in Earth's shadow," NASA officials said in a statement.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: hoppy on August 01, 2020, 06:43:49 AM
I AM SO AMAZED!!!!!! I BELIEVE EVERYTHING NASA TELLS ME!!!!😵😵😵😵😵
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 01, 2020, 09:25:13 AM
Why would NASA lie about glitches? ???
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 09:44:26 AM
I AM SO AMAZED!!!!!! I BELIEVE EVERYTHING NASA TELLS ME!!!!😵😵😵😵😵

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I need more reason than some guy on the internet calling them liars in all caps to decide they are part of some massive evil global satanic conspiracy or whatever.

And yes, I am amazed. A helicopter on Mars is going to be pretty amazing!
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 09:50:10 AM
I AM SO AMAZED!!!!!! I BELIEVE EVERYTHING NASA TELLS ME!!!!😵😵😵😵😵

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I need more reason than some guy on the internet calling them liars in all caps to decide they are part of some massive evil global satanic conspiracy or whatever.

And yes, I am amazed. A helicopter on Mars is going to be pretty amazing!

Oh look - It's already arrived  ::)
(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/v/v/d/w/k/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240x700.1vvd2r.png/1562207481635.jpg)
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 09:54:37 AM
I AM SO AMAZED!!!!!! I BELIEVE EVERYTHING NASA TELLS ME!!!!😵😵😵😵😵

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I need more reason than some guy on the internet calling them liars in all caps to decide they are part of some massive evil global satanic conspiracy or whatever.

And yes, I am amazed. A helicopter on Mars is going to be pretty amazing!

Oh look - It's already arrived  ::)
(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/v/v/d/w/k/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240x700.1vvd2r.png/1562207481635.jpg)

Is there a point to your spamming every thread with pictures and lying about what they represent?

Is this your way of trying to prove that Mars isn't real, by just posting random pictures of things? 
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 09:57:52 AM
I AM SO AMAZED!!!!!! I BELIEVE EVERYTHING NASA TELLS ME!!!!😵😵😵😵😵

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I need more reason than some guy on the internet calling them liars in all caps to decide they are part of some massive evil global satanic conspiracy or whatever.

And yes, I am amazed. A helicopter on Mars is going to be pretty amazing!

Oh look - It's already arrived  ::)
(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/v/v/d/w/k/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240x700.1vvd2r.png/1562207481635.jpg)

Is there a point to your spamming every thread with pictures and lying about what they represent?

Is this your way of trying to prove that Mars isn't real, by just posting random pictures of things?

Mars is real enough. Whether we have actually landed anything on there is debatable.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 10:02:09 AM
I AM SO AMAZED!!!!!! I BELIEVE EVERYTHING NASA TELLS ME!!!!😵😵😵😵😵

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I need more reason than some guy on the internet calling them liars in all caps to decide they are part of some massive evil global satanic conspiracy or whatever.

And yes, I am amazed. A helicopter on Mars is going to be pretty amazing!

Oh look - It's already arrived  ::)
(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/v/v/d/w/k/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240x700.1vvd2r.png/1562207481635.jpg)

Is there a point to your spamming every thread with pictures and lying about what they represent?

Is this your way of trying to prove that Mars isn't real, by just posting random pictures of things?

Mars is real enough. Whether we have actually landed anything on there is debatable.

If it was debatable you would have more than posting pictures with snarky comments.  I could reply with "silly flat earther" memes to every thread if I wanted, but that wouldn't accomplish anything more than your insults do.  Your picture spamming is pretty much the definition of low content posts.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 10:06:47 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?

Just because you disagree with something or dont like something, doesn't make it a spam/low content post. The surface of Mars as has been depicted is identical in features and formation to many areas of Earth, so yes, its debatable when we see a picture and you can do a double take because the image looks exactly like it was taken in some picturesque desert here on Earth
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 10:12:14 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?

Just because you disagree with something or dont like something, doesn't make it a spam/low content post. The surface of Mars as has been depicted is identical in features and formation to many areas of Earth, so yes, its debatable when we see a picture and you can do a double take because the image looks exactly like it was taken in some picturesque desert here on Earth

You pointing out that two things can look similar is as low content as it gets.  I could spam that into every discussion too.  "Hey, that thing you are talking about is fake because other things kinda look like it."

That's not exactly high quality debate there. Maybe you do a double take and are shocked and confused when one picture of a planet looks like parts of another planet because who would think similar planets might have similar features? Shocking. Yawn.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 10:19:55 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?

Just because you disagree with something or dont like something, doesn't make it a spam/low content post. The surface of Mars as has been depicted is identical in features and formation to many areas of Earth, so yes, its debatable when we see a picture and you can do a double take because the image looks exactly like it was taken in some picturesque desert here on Earth

You pointing out that two things can look similar is as low content as it gets.  I could spam that into every discussion too.  "Hey, that thing you are talking about is fake because other things kinda look like it."

That's not exactly high quality debate there. Maybe you do a double take and are shocked and confused when one picture of a planet looks like parts of another planet because who would think similar planets might have similar features? Shocking. Yawn.

It stands to reason that Earth could be the backdrop in every 'Mars' picture you have seen. THAT is the point of how this is debatable if you weren't so narrow minded and indoctrinated
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 10:24:33 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?

Just because you disagree with something or dont like something, doesn't make it a spam/low content post. The surface of Mars as has been depicted is identical in features and formation to many areas of Earth, so yes, its debatable when we see a picture and you can do a double take because the image looks exactly like it was taken in some picturesque desert here on Earth

You pointing out that two things can look similar is as low content as it gets.  I could spam that into every discussion too.  "Hey, that thing you are talking about is fake because other things kinda look like it."

That's not exactly high quality debate there. Maybe you do a double take and are shocked and confused when one picture of a planet looks like parts of another planet because who would think similar planets might have similar features? Shocking. Yawn.

It stands to reason that Earth could be the backdrop in every 'Mars' picture you have seen. THAT is the point of how this is debatable if you weren't so narrow minded and indoctrinated

Yeah, I understand your 'point' that everything in the world could be a lie and could be faked and nothing at all might exist. Understood it the first time you posted pictures with snarky comments.

So what?

Repeating that same idea over and over again doesn't make it any more than what it is... a lazy argument with no real content.

Anything in the world could be faked, so nothing is real.  That's not an argument it's just denying reality.

You don't have anything more than "this thing looks like that thing" with these posts which never go anywhere because that's the start and end of your debate.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 01, 2020, 10:29:02 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?
Your spamming and trolling are not debating.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 11:05:44 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?
Your spamming and trolling are not debating.

The same could be said of your post

The conspiracy idea is already there. I didn't invent it. Plenty of people believe the Mars missions are faked. Plenty of people believe the Moon landings were faked and staged. Are they all spamming? Again, just because you dont agree with someones idea or post doesn't automatically mean it's spam. It just means you're intolerant and unwilling to debate anyone in good faith
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 01, 2020, 11:52:27 AM
The conspiracy idea is already there. I didn't invent it. Plenty of people believe the Mars missions are faked. Plenty of people believe the Moon landings were faked and staged. Are they all spamming?
Posting a NASA photo and claiming that it's fake is one thing, but that isn't what you're doing.

Again, just because you dont agree with someones idea or post doesn't automatically mean it's spam. It just means you're intolerant and unwilling to debate anyone in good faith
Deliberately (and obviously) misrepresenting photos is not good faith.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 11:54:36 AM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?
Your spamming and trolling are not debating.

The same could be said of your post

The conspiracy idea is already there. I didn't invent it. Plenty of people believe the Mars missions are faked. Plenty of people believe the Moon landings were faked and staged. Are they all spamming? Again, just because you dont agree with someones idea or post doesn't automatically mean it's spam. It just means you're intolerant and unwilling to debate anyone in good faith

What is to debate?

You didn't say anything other than posting a picture and a snarky comment.

All you are saying is.... well nothing.  It's all fake?  Ok.  That's nice.  How do you respond to that?  You didn't actually say anything meaningful other than just claiming it's all a hoax.

How many times to you have to say "It's all fake" and nothing else for it to start to be spam?  Ten times?  A hundred?  Every single thread about Mars you jump in with a picture and maybe add a snarky comment.  That's not debating, that's trolling.  It's low effort, low content and boring.

You think all the Mars landing and pictures and data and are all fake and lies and conspiracies, we get it.

You want a debate in good faith?  Try saying something other than posting pretty pictures with snarky comments. What do you EXPECT when you keep posting that? You have some evidence, show it. Otherwise don't be surprised when your dismissed as spam or a troll.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 12:08:22 PM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?
Your spamming and trolling are not debating.

The same could be said of your post

The conspiracy idea is already there. I didn't invent it. Plenty of people believe the Mars missions are faked. Plenty of people believe the Moon landings were faked and staged. Are they all spamming? Again, just because you dont agree with someones idea or post doesn't automatically mean it's spam. It just means you're intolerant and unwilling to debate anyone in good faith

What is to debate?

You didn't say anything other than posting a picture and a snarky comment.

All you are saying is.... well nothing.  It's all fake?  Ok.  That's nice.  How do you respond to that?  You didn't actually say anything meaningful other than just claiming it's all a hoax.

How many times to you have to say "It's all fake" and nothing else for it to start to be spam?  Ten times?  A hundred?  Every single thread about Mars you jump in with a picture and maybe add a snarky comment.  That's not debating, that's trolling.  It's low effort, low content and boring.

You think all the Mars landing and pictures and data and are all fake and lies and conspiracies, we get it.

You want a debate in good faith?  Try saying something other than posting pretty pictures with snarky comments. What do you EXPECT when you keep posting that? You have some evidence, show it. Otherwise don't be surprised when your dismissed as spam or a troll.

Picture tells a thousand words. If you're too ignorant to see that through the picture, I am suggesting that NASA has been lying to us and using Earth as a backdrop this whole time then that is not my problem

So people are forbidden to speculate? They are not allowed a belief or opinion or not allowed to mistrust an organisation?

Speculating is not trolling.

If your counter arguments always boils down to 'your just trolling' then your debating skills are pathetic and the only low content poster is you
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 12:15:17 PM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?
Your spamming and trolling are not debating.

The same could be said of your post

The conspiracy idea is already there. I didn't invent it. Plenty of people believe the Mars missions are faked. Plenty of people believe the Moon landings were faked and staged. Are they all spamming? Again, just because you dont agree with someones idea or post doesn't automatically mean it's spam. It just means you're intolerant and unwilling to debate anyone in good faith

What is to debate?

You didn't say anything other than posting a picture and a snarky comment.

All you are saying is.... well nothing.  It's all fake?  Ok.  That's nice.  How do you respond to that?  You didn't actually say anything meaningful other than just claiming it's all a hoax.

How many times to you have to say "It's all fake" and nothing else for it to start to be spam?  Ten times?  A hundred?  Every single thread about Mars you jump in with a picture and maybe add a snarky comment.  That's not debating, that's trolling.  It's low effort, low content and boring.

You think all the Mars landing and pictures and data and are all fake and lies and conspiracies, we get it.

You want a debate in good faith?  Try saying something other than posting pretty pictures with snarky comments. What do you EXPECT when you keep posting that? You have some evidence, show it. Otherwise don't be surprised when your dismissed as spam or a troll.

Picture tells a thousand words. If you're too ignorant to see that through the picture, I am suggesting that NASA has been lying to us and using Earth as a backdrop this whole time then that is not my problem

So people are forbidden to speculate? They are not allowed a belief or opinion or not allowed to mistrust an organisation?

Speculating is not trolling.

If your counter arguments always boils down to 'your just trolling' then your debating skills are pathetic and the only low content poster is you

I'm not forbidding you to do anything.

You are posting low content trolling material and I'm calling you on it.

Your debating technique here is posting a picture, making a snarky comment misrepresenting it and... well that's all you have done.

You can keep doing it. And I'll keep calling you on it.

There are no counter arguments to your post because you didn't supply any argument.  "It's all lies" is an opinion, not an argument.  You can have all the opinions you want but don't get upset when nobody 'debates' your opinion.  You can't debate opinions.  If you have some facts to share or debate, then lets have them.

Opinions are not facts, you can have them, but you can't just spam threads with them and think you're debating.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 12:22:43 PM
Of course it's debatable. What do you think we are doing?
Your spamming and trolling are not debating.

The same could be said of your post

The conspiracy idea is already there. I didn't invent it. Plenty of people believe the Mars missions are faked. Plenty of people believe the Moon landings were faked and staged. Are they all spamming? Again, just because you dont agree with someones idea or post doesn't automatically mean it's spam. It just means you're intolerant and unwilling to debate anyone in good faith

What is to debate?

You didn't say anything other than posting a picture and a snarky comment.

All you are saying is.... well nothing.  It's all fake?  Ok.  That's nice.  How do you respond to that?  You didn't actually say anything meaningful other than just claiming it's all a hoax.

How many times to you have to say "It's all fake" and nothing else for it to start to be spam?  Ten times?  A hundred?  Every single thread about Mars you jump in with a picture and maybe add a snarky comment.  That's not debating, that's trolling.  It's low effort, low content and boring.

You think all the Mars landing and pictures and data and are all fake and lies and conspiracies, we get it.

You want a debate in good faith?  Try saying something other than posting pretty pictures with snarky comments. What do you EXPECT when you keep posting that? You have some evidence, show it. Otherwise don't be surprised when your dismissed as spam or a troll.

Picture tells a thousand words. If you're too ignorant to see that through the picture, I am suggesting that NASA has been lying to us and using Earth as a backdrop this whole time then that is not my problem

So people are forbidden to speculate? They are not allowed a belief or opinion or not allowed to mistrust an organisation?

Speculating is not trolling.

If your counter arguments always boils down to 'your just trolling' then your debating skills are pathetic and the only low content poster is you

I'm not forbidding you to do anything.

You are posting low content trolling material and I'm calling you on it.

Your debating technique here is posting a picture, making a snarky comment misrepresenting it and... well that's all you have done.

You can keep doing it. And I'll keep calling you on it.

There are no counter arguments to your post because you didn't supply any argument.  "It's all lies" is an opinion, not an argument.  You can have all the opinions you want but don't get upset when nobody 'debates' your opinion.  You can't debate opinions.  If you have some facts to share or debate, then lets have them.

Opinions are not facts, you can have them, but you can't just spam threads with them and think you're debating.

It's not just me who thinks Mars landings were faked. Others here on this forum and elsewhere around the world also believe they are faked for one of the very reasons I have posted above. The pictures could all be of Earth. How could YOU tell if the picture was a genuine photo from the surface of Mars or from some place in the Wadi Rum desert in Jordan? You have never been to Mars and I'll hazard a guess you have not been to the deserts in Jordan. YOU could not tell. Your belief that it is genuine stems from your trust in NASA

Well I hate to break it to you but not everyone trusts NASA

And for people who believe our world is Flat and encapsulated with a dome well why would they believe rovers are on Mars right now? Nothing would ever convince them short of decoupling their belief in the Flat Earth first

Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 01, 2020, 02:25:12 PM
I'm not forbidding you to do anything.

You are posting low content trolling material and I'm calling you on it.

Your debating technique here is posting a picture, making a snarky comment misrepresenting it and... well that's all you have done.

You can keep doing it. And I'll keep calling you on it.

There are no counter arguments to your post because you didn't supply any argument.  "It's all lies" is an opinion, not an argument.  You can have all the opinions you want but don't get upset when nobody 'debates' your opinion.  You can't debate opinions.  If you have some facts to share or debate, then lets have them.

Opinions are not facts, you can have them, but you can't just spam threads with them and think you're debating.

It's not just me who thinks Mars landings were faked. Others here on this forum and elsewhere around the world also believe they are faked for one of the very reasons I have posted above.

Just because other people think something isn't evidence.  I can find lots of people who think they are vampires or that dragons are real and that doesn't prove any of them right.

The pictures could all be of Earth. How could YOU tell if the picture was a genuine photo from the surface of Mars or from some place in the Wadi Rum desert in Jordan? You have never been to Mars and I'll hazard a guess you have not been to the deserts in Jordan. YOU could not tell. Your belief that it is genuine stems from your trust in NASA

How? By preponderance of the evidence.  By considering all the facts. Multiple Mars missions from multiple countries, with thousands of people directly involved and millions by the time you include everyone building parts to spec.

For it all to be fake, well, that's a huge amount of people to fool, plus all the faked evidence has to be made by somebody. Fake satellites in orbit. Fake space station. Fake astronauts. Fake GPS.e Fake moon landings. Fake space probes to all the planets. Thousands and thousands of pictures. Something is up there orbiting, I've seen it, I've taken pictures, thousands of others have. Sent radio transmissions up there, got them back. I used to listen to weather satellites and download maps back in the 90's. NASA wasn't secretly plugged into my crappy radio receiver and computer to feed me false data.

Sixty years of manned space flight, all that video, pictures, film, moon rocks, rockets and launches witnessed by tens of thousands of people.

All fake. All a vast conspiracy. 

And the evidence? Nothing. I've never seen a single piece of evidence to corroborate it, and I've gone through hours of crappy YouTube moon hoax videos and every single thing they point out is easily disproved.  "Hey, this lady moves without touching anything, must be fake!"  No, you can see her grab a handhold and pull herself.  It's ALL like that.  I've posted detailed breakdowns on these videos.

So you want to know why I think NASA isn't lying?  For the same reason I don't think NASA is lying about the existence of the Nile river.  I've never seen it with my own eyes, but if someone told me it's not really there... that every picture of it is fake... that there has been a thousand year conspiracy to hide the fact that the Nile doesn't exist... well I am going to demand their evidence too, and if it's nothing but "Well you COULD fake a river, look here is a picture of another river." then I'm sorry but that's not good enough.

Well I hate to break it to you but not everyone trusts NASA

Again, so what? Some people believe in Santa Claus. It's not evidence of anything.

And for people who believe our world is Flat and encapsulated with a dome well why would they believe rovers are on Mars right now? Nothing would ever convince them short of decoupling their belief in the Flat Earth first

And that right there is the problem.

They have a belief, a faith of a flat Earth and will not listen to evidence, facts or reason.

You can not "decouple their belief" is facts and evidence are thrown out the window.

Pictures of an Earth desert prove nothing except that dry, rocky environments look like dry rocky environments.

I can show you pictures of dragons that look very real. Does that mean they are? You can't tell just from the picture. But you can make a pretty good judgment call that a picture of a ten ton flying magic wielding fire breathing dragon isn't real. You can't know for SURE, but I'm not going to go running into my basement to hide for a week if I see a facebook post of one and they claim it's coming to burninate all the villages.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 01, 2020, 03:59:30 PM
Well I hate to break it to you but not everyone trusts NASA
Just because you don't trust someone doesn't prove that they're lying.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 01, 2020, 07:33:20 PM
Well I hate to break it to you but not everyone trusts NASA
Just because you don't trust someone doesn't prove that they're lying.

And just because you don't agree with someones speculation or stance on a matter, doesn't mean they are trolling

Many people go through life believing on things without evidence. You think hard core anti vaxxers, flat earthers or Trump supporters are all trolling?

A free world entitles me to look at a picture or read a news article and dismiss it as BS

When I read that NASA wants to spend billions of dollars to send a helicopter to Mars, a planet with less than 1% the atmosphere of Earth to maybe launch a few feet on the air for a few seconds and whether it does so or not is mission success than yeah, I'm a skeptic

The billions spent could have just as easily created a lab here on earth to replicate the Mars atmosphere condition and test to their hearts content. If it failed, just walk over and start again

Hmmm, perhaps that is what they are really doing afterall lol
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 01, 2020, 08:05:50 PM

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I have a full grown elephant in the trunk ( :D) of my car.

You can take pictures of my car.
You can hear elephant sounds.

Do you believe I have an elephant in my trunk?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 01, 2020, 08:20:49 PM
Well I hate to break it to you but not everyone trusts NASA
Just because you don't trust someone doesn't prove that they're lying.

And just because you don't agree with someones speculation or stance on a matter, doesn't mean they are trolling
It does when they don't have an actual argument or add anything to the discussion.


When I read that NASA wants to spend billions of dollars to send a helicopter to Mars, a planet with less than 1% the atmosphere of Earth to maybe launch a few feet on the air for a few seconds and whether it does so or not is mission success than yeah, I'm a skeptic

The billions spent could have just as easily created a lab here on earth to replicate the Mars atmosphere condition and test to their hearts content. If it failed, just walk over and start again
What makes you think that they didn't test it? ???
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 02, 2020, 02:34:10 AM

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I have a full grown elephant in the trunk ( :D) of my car.

You can take pictures of my car.
You can hear elephant sounds.

Do you believe I have an elephant in my trunk?
It is only Elon Musk, CEO SpaceX that sends elephants to Mars.
And plenty people love it.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 02, 2020, 04:20:09 AM

When NASA says they have people on an orbiting space station and I can take pictures of it right where it should be and can pick up radio transmissions from it then yeah, I believe them when they say there are people up there.

I have a full grown elephant in the trunk ( :D) of my car.

You can take pictures of my car.
You can hear elephant sounds.

Do you believe I have an elephant in my trunk?

If you spent the last 50 years saying there was an elephant in your trunk and I saw thousands of pictures taken by hundreds of people of the elephant with them and you traveled with it to a dozen countries and world leaders talked about it and there were hundreds of hours of film and there was no evidence that it was a fake then... yes.

Now your turn.

I claim the Nile river is fake. My evidence is that I say so. Will you believe me and start spreading the word of the Fake Nile and confront anyone who says it's real and call them liars?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 02, 2020, 05:57:34 AM
Your fake Nile claim should be considered. I haven't been there myself so I can't dismiss it out of hand.

But is this thread about the Nile? Go start a thread about the fake Nile
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 02, 2020, 08:39:24 AM
Your fake Nile claim should be considered. I haven't been there myself so I can't dismiss it out of hand.

If it was being hidden for hundreds of years and a massive global conspiracy, what makes you think seeing it in person could be any proof? You might be getting redirected to another river. Or shown it through a 3D screen. Or drugged and hypnotized into thinking you saw it. Or you might just be a simulation altered to think you saw it.

You have no way to disprove my claim. So anyone saying the Nile exists is a damn liar. Right?

But is this thread about the Nile? Go start a thread about the fake Nile

No. You brought up the subject of Mars pictures being fake, I'm just using an analogy to show how silly it is. You can claim anything you want, but without any evidence to back it up it's as meaningful as a fake Nile or fire breathing magic dragons.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 02, 2020, 02:22:26 PM
Your fake Nile claim should be considered. I haven't been there myself so I can't dismiss it out of hand.

If it was being hidden for hundreds of years and a massive global conspiracy, what makes you think seeing it in person could be any proof? You might be getting redirected to another river. Or shown it through a 3D screen. Or drugged and hypnotized into thinking you saw it. Or you might just be a simulation altered to think you saw it.

You have no way to disprove my claim. So anyone saying the Nile exists is a damn liar. Right?


Good point. I could be tricked and then be part of the problem spreading the lie. It is tough to be certain of anything.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: hoppy on August 02, 2020, 05:54:07 PM
Brainwashed stooges,shills and bots always believe everything that NASA says. But try to remember that you are on a flat Earth website not a round Earth website. Therefore some will not believe all the bs that NASA is spouting.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 02, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Brainwashed stooges,shills and bots always believe everything that NASA says. But try to remember that you are on a flat Earth website not a round Earth website. Therefore some will not believe all the bs that NASA is spouting.
Not believing is one thing, trolling is another.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 02, 2020, 06:40:27 PM
Brainwashed stooges,shills and bots always believe everything that NASA says. But try to remember that you are on a flat Earth website not a round Earth website. Therefore some will not believe all the bs that NASA is spouting.
Not believing is one thing, trolling is another.

Look, NASA has given us some great things such as water filters and cordless tools etc. But that doesn't mean I will believe everything they say. I'm not one to get sucked in by 'charm offensives'

At the end of the day I still see NASA an American giant that takes in billions of dollars. And it only gets that money if it gets results

I have seen behind the scenes in a research laboratory that depends on external grants for funding.

Do you ever see news reports on some 'medical breakthrough' that's going to 'change lives' or 'cure' diseases but then you never hear about it again?

That's the lead researcher over exaggerating or fluffing up a finding to get noticed. They know from the outset the 'finding' will never make it past all the clinical trials. They just want a reason to keep their jobs. I'm not saying they devote their existence to fabricating BS. I'm sure they are hoping to make a real difference. Doesn't mean you should believe what they say all the time.

So NASA may well attempt to do things they say they do. One to blast off to the heavens, the other firmly grounded here on Earth 'just in case'

Do I have 'evidence'? No. I have a healthy suspicion and am quite allowed to have it. Just because your indoctrinated that NASA is a 100% truthful and benevolent agency, doesn't mean people who aren't sucked in are just trolls
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 02, 2020, 07:36:40 PM
Do I have 'evidence'? No.
Then stop with the "Mars photos" as if they were evidence.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 02, 2020, 07:59:48 PM
Do I have 'evidence'? No.
Then stop with the "Mars photos" as if they were evidence.

Did I label them as evidence?

No one is allowed to post coincidental pictures or things thy find suspicious?

Your 'trolling' counter argument is weak. It only lends to your inability to debate or discuss anything in good faith. If you disagree with people, you just shut down akin to sticking your fingers in your ear screaming la la la

Whose the real troll? It's a flat earth forum and you're an inflexible rigid round earther...
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 03, 2020, 05:05:44 AM
Do I have 'evidence'? No. I have a healthy suspicion and am quite allowed to have it. Just because your indoctrinated that NASA is a 100% truthful and benevolent agency, doesn't mean people who aren't sucked in are just trolls

What you just described is an unhealthy suspicion.

You are suspicious without evidence. You see conspiracies and lies with nothing to back them up and then call people who don't believe your conspiracy theories indoctrinated.

That is not healthy.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 03, 2020, 05:17:36 AM
Do I have 'evidence'? No. I have a healthy suspicion and am quite allowed to have it. Just because your indoctrinated that NASA is a 100% truthful and benevolent agency, doesn't mean people who aren't sucked in are just trolls

What you just described is an unhealthy suspicion.

You are suspicious without evidence. You see conspiracies and lies with nothing to back them up and then call people who don't believe your conspiracy theories indoctrinated.

That is not healthy.

Lets agree to disagree. My experience in a research lab has simply made me like this lol

You try working for a lead supervisor - give her data that basically shows the compound given to the mice is shit and is killing them horribly and watch as she cherry picks the data and changes the standards mid experiment to have seemingly better results.

It's all about the money. Even the drug was labelled with an '88' to attract Chinese investment (8 being a lucky number).

I trust NASA is trying. I don't trust everything it says.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 03, 2020, 05:39:58 AM
Do I have 'evidence'? No. I have a healthy suspicion and am quite allowed to have it. Just because your indoctrinated that NASA is a 100% truthful and benevolent agency, doesn't mean people who aren't sucked in are just trolls

What you just described is an unhealthy suspicion.

You are suspicious without evidence. You see conspiracies and lies with nothing to back them up and then call people who don't believe your conspiracy theories indoctrinated.

That is not healthy.

Lets agree to disagree. My experience in a research lab has simply made me like this lol

You try working for a lead supervisor - give her data that basically shows the compound given to the mice is shit and is killing them horribly and watch as she cherry picks the data and changes the standards mid experiment to have seemingly better results.

It's all about the money. Even the drug was labelled with an '88' to attract Chinese investment (8 being a lucky number).

I trust NASA is trying. I don't trust everything it says.

I've see people lie and cheat too.

But it doesn't make me think NASA is a huge conspiracy of lies and the Mars explorers and everything out there is fake.

I've seen people get shot and die right in front of me. Doesn't mean I think all NASA employees are murdering ninjas running around killing people just because I know humans can kill and murder.

You have to show me proof someone is a murderer, and have to show proof NASA is making up the Mars rovers before I'd accept it.

Nothing you see makes you anything. We all make decisions, we can all change, we have free will given to us for a reason and can use it if we choose.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Shifter on August 03, 2020, 05:55:38 AM
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 03, 2020, 06:29:56 AM
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it

There is a huge leap between "NASA wants money" and "NASA is faking Mars rovers in a vast multi-country conspiracy at the highest levels of government fooling the entire world perfectly with no traces or evidence."

Thats the jump you are making here.

NASA makes plenty of mistakes, they make plenty of failures.  The Space Shuttle was a massive failure in that it cost far more money than expected and didn't deliver the cheap access to space it promised, was failure prone and pretty much is the reason NASA lost the ability to send people into space.

I guess we just think different things are unlikely.

You don't think NASA can send robots to Mars.

I don't think NASA can fake all those robots.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 03, 2020, 06:41:17 AM
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it

There is a huge leap between "NASA wants money" and "NASA is faking Mars rovers in a vast multi-country conspiracy at the highest levels of government fooling the entire world perfectly with no traces or evidence."

Thats the jump you are making here.

NASA makes plenty of mistakes, they make plenty of failures.  The Space Shuttle was a massive failure in that it cost far more money than expected and didn't deliver the cheap access to space it promised, was failure prone and pretty much is the reason NASA lost the ability to send people into space.

I guess we just think different things are unlikely.

You don't think NASA can send robots to Mars.

I don't think NASA can fake all those robots.
It is quite easy to fake everything.
The rover works of course but only on Earth.
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc. Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 03, 2020, 06:43:04 AM
Do I have 'evidence'? No.
Then stop with the "Mars photos" as if they were evidence.

Did I label them as evidence?

No one is allowed to post coincidental pictures or things thy find suspicious?
Of course you're allowed.  Except that isn't what you did.  You posted some pictures with some snarky comments.  It isn't necessarily what you present that makes you a troll, but how you present it.

Your 'trolling' counter argument is weak. It only lends to your inability to debate or discuss anything in good faith. If you disagree with people, you just shut down akin to sticking your fingers in your ear screaming la la la

Whose the real troll? It's a flat earth forum and you're an inflexible rigid round earther...
Oh, I'm quite flexible and am willing to consider any credible evidence or reasonable suspicions.  I just haven't seen you provide any yet in this thread.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 03, 2020, 07:23:58 AM
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it

There is a huge leap between "NASA wants money" and "NASA is faking Mars rovers in a vast multi-country conspiracy at the highest levels of government fooling the entire world perfectly with no traces or evidence."

Thats the jump you are making here.

NASA makes plenty of mistakes, they make plenty of failures.  The Space Shuttle was a massive failure in that it cost far more money than expected and didn't deliver the cheap access to space it promised, was failure prone and pretty much is the reason NASA lost the ability to send people into space.

I guess we just think different things are unlikely.

You don't think NASA can send robots to Mars.

I don't think NASA can fake all those robots.
It is quite easy to fake everything.
The rover works of course but only on Earth.
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc. Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You haven't explained anything, just stated it's fake.

It's easy to ride a dragon.
Just catch one, tame it and ride it.
See? Dragons are real and exist and I have one in my pocket. They shrink when not needed.

You really think there is a sound stage somewhere where all the Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, comets, solar observations, ISS, Moon landings and everything else happens?

Must be a massive facility that nobody has ever found.

Bollocks.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 03, 2020, 07:46:51 AM
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it

There is a huge leap between "NASA wants money" and "NASA is faking Mars rovers in a vast multi-country conspiracy at the highest levels of government fooling the entire world perfectly with no traces or evidence."

Thats the jump you are making here.

NASA makes plenty of mistakes, they make plenty of failures.  The Space Shuttle was a massive failure in that it cost far more money than expected and didn't deliver the cheap access to space it promised, was failure prone and pretty much is the reason NASA lost the ability to send people into space.

I guess we just think different things are unlikely.

You don't think NASA can send robots to Mars.

I don't think NASA can fake all those robots.
It is quite easy to fake everything.
The rover works of course but only on Earth.
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc. Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You haven't explained anything, just stated it's fake.

It's easy to ride a dragon.
Just catch one, tame it and ride it.
See? Dragons are real and exist and I have one in my pocket. They shrink when not needed.

You really think there is a sound stage somewhere where all the Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Pluto, comets, solar observations, ISS, Moon landings and everything else happens?

Must be a massive facility that nobody has ever found.

Bollocks.
At http://heiwaco.com/moontravel.htm I explain why an Arab, Chinese or American spacecraft cannot travel to planet Mars.
Of course the Arabs(Japanese), Chinese and American principals say they will start this month and arrive at Mars 200-240 days later next year.
The Arabs will only orbit Mars on arrival. Arabs are not allowed to land. The Chinese can land but agree it is a 50/50 chance of success and the Americans will land in a remote crater that nobody has heard of.
They will all study the weather on Mars. Very important.
The Chinese and the Americans will look for life. Very important too.
Why the Americans will land in a crater is not clear to me.
I just watch the shows.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 03, 2020, 09:23:47 AM
Why the Americans will land in a crater is not clear to me.
Why not ask NASA?
Quote from: https://mars.nasa.gov/mars2020/mission/science/landing-site/
NASA chose Jezero crater as the landing site for the Perseverance rover. Scientists believe the area was once flooded with water and was home to an ancient river delta.

Jezero crater tells a story of the on-again, off-again nature of the wet past of Mars. More than 3.5 billion years ago, river channels spilled over the crater wall and created a lake. Scientists see evidence that water carried clay minerals from the surrounding area into the crater lake. Conceivably, microbial life could have lived in Jezero during one or more of these wet times. If so, signs of their remains might be found in lakebed or shoreline sediments.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 03, 2020, 09:59:21 AM


Yes, NM asstronuts love craters. I always feel sorry for PhDs working in the Rio Grande gutter.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 03, 2020, 10:03:19 AM
Yes, NM asstronuts love craters. I always feel sorry for PhDs working in the Rio Grande gutter.
Your pity is irrelevant.  You aren't an explorer, so you don't understand what drives exploration.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 03, 2020, 12:16:49 PM
Yes, NM asstronuts love craters. I always feel sorry for PhDs working in the Rio Grande gutter.
Your pity is irrelevant.  You aren't an explorer, so you don't understand what drives exploration.
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business. So I concluded early that the space business was just pseudo business. Just empty talk. Like finding out the weather on Mars today or life there a billion years ago. Fantastic business. ROTFL
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 03, 2020, 12:37:46 PM
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: MouseWalker on August 03, 2020, 01:00:32 PM
Like I said, I don't think NASA is evil but like any agency that depends on external funding there is pressure to produce promising results.

I don't doubt they've tried. I think they are gunning for it. I just wont take everything at face value. At least when billions of dollars is riding on it

There is a huge leap between "NASA wants money" and "NASA is faking Mars rovers in a vast multi-country conspiracy at the highest levels of government fooling the entire world perfectly with no traces or evidence."

Thats the jump you are making here.

NASA makes plenty of mistakes, they make plenty of failures.  The Space Shuttle was a massive failure in that it cost far more money than expected and didn't deliver the cheap access to space it promised, was failure prone and pretty much is the reason NASA lost the ability to send people into space.

I guess we just think different things are unlikely.

You don't think NASA can send robots to Mars.

I don't think NASA can fake all those robots.
It is quite easy to fake everything.
The rover works of course but only on Earth.
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc. Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

with all that how many inspections did you fake; why shod I trust you with an inspection, I don't think so.
How many ships had problems after your inspections?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 03, 2020, 04:33:32 PM

Why the Americans will land in a crater is not clear to me.

It's the best way to study a crater. 
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 03, 2020, 09:03:21 PM
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Well, I am not a tourist while going around exploring local ships, etc.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: markjo on August 04, 2020, 10:15:53 AM
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Well, I am not a tourist while going around exploring local ships, etc.
You're not an explorer while fixing ships toilets either.
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 04, 2020, 10:56:28 AM
I am an explorer and have visited many countries in the world ... in the shipping business.
Visiting a country is not the same as exploring a country.
Well, I am not a tourist while going around exploring local ships, etc.
You're not an explorer while fixing ships toilets either.
Well, it was part of the job.
Have you ever had a job?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Unconvinced on August 07, 2020, 05:22:55 AM

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago. 
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 07, 2020, 06:26:08 AM

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago.

Thanks for clarifying many things. I appreciate it very much.
So the US Perseverence rover + rocket has gone to Mars and will arrive there after a 200+ days orbit trajectory in space. Upon arrival Mars gravity attracts rover + rocket! They will drop down on Mars. But how?
On Earth US space crafts drop into oceans full of water and USN pick them up. But on Mars there are no oceans or US Navies so how to land? Drop straight on the ground? Is the rover designed for it? I know Mars gravity is weaker than Earth's but dropping something on Mars from space normally creates a crater = hole in the ground = nothing else.
Assuming the rover arrives safely without creating a crater, it will then drive around and look for life and check the weather and report back to base/Earth. And then? What to do with the data?
Do you know any PhD expert on Earth capable to make any sense of such data from Mars?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Stash on August 07, 2020, 07:26:27 AM

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago.

Thanks for clarifying many things. I appreciate it very much.
So the US Perseverence rover + rocket has gone to Mars and will arrive there after a 200+ days orbit trajectory in space. Upon arrival Mars gravity attracts rover + rocket! They will drop down on Mars. But how?

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

On Earth US space crafts drop into oceans full of water and USN pick them up. But on Mars there are no oceans or US Navies so how to land? Drop straight on the ground?

Russia's Soyuz drops on the ground.

Is the rover designed for it? I know Mars gravity is weaker than Earth's but dropping something on Mars from space normally creates a crater = hole in the ground = nothing else.

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

Assuming the rover arrives safely without creating a crater, it will then drive around and look for life and check the weather and report back to base/Earth. And then? What to do with the data?
Do you know any PhD expert on Earth capable to make any sense of such data from Mars?

Are you just patently against exploration, science...progress of any kind? Just because you don't know how to analyze data means that no one else does? So if you don't understand something or don't know how to do something you're convinced that no one else on the planet possibly could? What's wrong with you?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: Heiwa on August 07, 2020, 07:35:38 AM

It is quite easy to fake everything.

Ha!  That’s what the Fake Spacers always say.  Little or no thought ever seems to go into what it would actually take to fake it.

Quote
The rover works of course but only on Earth. 

Why only on earth?  The rover would have been designed, built and tested for the expected conditions on Mars.  If it couldn’t meet the requirement specs, the scientists and engineers working on the project would know.  Not sure what you think would make it only work on Earth, but whatever. 

This of course applies to every system and subsystem of any spacecraft/probe/lander/rover.  For every single part they’d either need to build it for real, or involve all the relevant people in faking something that still looks credible to everyone not in on it, whilst hiding the real results.  All those people are security risks who could deliberately or inadvertently blow the whole operation.  Easier and safer just to build something to spec.

Quote
Then it is loaded on a rocket that takes off and disappears in the sky.

Oh, the rocket just “disappears into the sky”, does it?  Great detective work there. 

However, building the rockets is much the same situation as with the craft.  Everyone working on the rockets knows exactly what they are and aren’t capable of.  If a rocket couldn’t deliver a specified payload to a specified trajectory everyone would know about it. 

What’s more, the weight, thrust, fuel, etc specs of the rockets are publicly released.  Orbits and trajectories can be calculated by anyone.  Have any Fake Spacers even bothered to check the calculations themselves?  Or is that too much like putting in some actual effort?

Also, spacecraft are tracked by radar and by their transmissions by  other spaces agencies and civilian stations, so that’s a whole load more people who need to be in on it.

Quote
Only a few people at NASA ground control knows that the rocket will never arrive anywhere.

Ridiculous.  As well as maintaining the conspiracy with international agencies, and the suppliers of the rockets and craft, now they need to fake everything internally well enough to fool their own staff of incredibly well qualified and highly skilled staff? 

Those few Illuminati (or whatever) higher ups must be real workhorses, to manage not just all the normal things for running the operation, but also faking everything to fool the majority of their own staff, as well as the rest of the world.  The people they’d have to fool are literally pouring over the data all day every day, and none of them ever spot anything suspicious?

Quote
So they report regular progress, etc.
The arrival Mars is 100% Hollywood studio work again with some NASA ground control staff playing their roles. Finally the rover is put on Mars (i.e. Earth) and NASA can show films about it. Etc, etc.

Sure, sure. 

So as well as faking the engineering effort (or making it for real), faking the telemetry, faking the instrument data, now you’d need to bring in whole teams of “Hollywood” crews, CGI artists, and whatnot for the images and videos to present to the public.  Again, every single one is a security risk. 

Why bother with all of that when it’s easier to at least try to do for real?  Its embarrassing when a mission fails (which they do), but nothing compared to being caught cheating. 

So what’s the sum total of evidence the Fake Spacers have uncovered for half a century of alleged deception (to the best of my knowledge):

A) Number of whistleblowers = 0
B) Number of leaked documents pointing to conspiracy = 0
C) Number of engineers/technicians/scientists working on the projects claiming something didn’t add up in the specs or data = 0
D) Number of technical issues uncovered that’s confirmed by anyone who actually knows what they are talking about = 0
E) Number of scientists who have studied the results or samples who doubt their authenticity = 0

And yet:

F) Number of photos you all think look a bit funny (yet are easily explained) = Lots
G) Amount of personal incredulity = Off the chart

Conclusion:  Fake Spacers have had decades to find some actual evidence and have absolutely nothing.

Quote
Same scenario as for the Apollo 11 trip 1969. What a waste of money.

You’re right about one thing.  It’s as implausible now as it was in 69.  More so in fact as they’d need to maintain the conspiracy started all those years ago.

Thanks for clarifying many things. I appreciate it very much.
So the US Perseverence rover + rocket has gone to Mars and will arrive there after a 200+ days orbit trajectory in space. Upon arrival Mars gravity attracts rover + rocket! They will drop down on Mars. But how?

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

On Earth US space crafts drop into oceans full of water and USN pick them up. But on Mars there are no oceans or US Navies so how to land? Drop straight on the ground?

Russia's Soyuz drops on the ground.

Is the rover designed for it? I know Mars gravity is weaker than Earth's but dropping something on Mars from space normally creates a crater = hole in the ground = nothing else.

I presume you have the same access to the internet that I do. Look it up. There are a million documents, images, videos that show exactly how.

Assuming the rover arrives safely without creating a crater, it will then drive around and look for life and check the weather and report back to base/Earth. And then? What to do with the data?
Do you know any PhD expert on Earth capable to make any sense of such data from Mars?

Are you just patently against exploration, science...progress of any kind? Just because you don't know how to analyze data means that no one else does? So if you don't understand something or don't know how to do something you're convinced that no one else on the planet possibly could? What's wrong with you?

Hm, landing on Mars is not the same as landing on Earth. But thanks anyway.
Question remains - what to do with any data received from Mars? http://heiwaco.com/chall6.htm .

What experts on Earth shall analyze this data and who is interested in it?
Title: Re: Perseverence
Post by: JJA on August 07, 2020, 08:23:15 AM
Hm, landing on Mars is not the same as landing on Earth. But thanks anyway.
Question remains - what to do with any data received from Mars? http://heiwaco.com/chall6.htm .

What experts on Earth shall analyze this data and who is interested in it?

Landing on one planet isn't the same as landing on another plant, obviously.

All your questions are easily answered by looking them up. Are you truly incapable of learning?

You seem to think your confusion and ignorance is proof of a massive conspiracy. It is not.