The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Danang on September 23, 2019, 02:44:50 PM
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GPS navigation only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
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Please repent, and exodus to PHEW FE Map 8) ;D
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
In order for GPS to work it needs to be based upon accurate maps. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be capable of accurately reporting your position, this is especially true with open source receivers.
So GPS, accurately determining your position, shows that the maps it uses are accurate.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What?
Just what is this meant to mean or show?
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
*sigh* No. GPS only tells you where you are. Navigation systems tell you where to go. GPS is a positioning system, not a navigation system. The clue is in the name: Global Positioning System.
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
What's the issue with this flight?
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxnNuF.png?1)
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
No! GPS does not "tell you which direction to go".
It only tells you your precise latitude and longitude - nothing more (unless you have some enhanced Doppler system).
In other words it exactly where you when plotted on an accurate map.
It is up to the navigation program in your GPS receiver to then tell you where to go.
If the distances seem wrong it is the maps that are wrong not the GPS.
But I've travelled long distances around Australia and the GPS and maps used have always been correct - a few times the road has been moved and the maps no updated but that has nothing to do with the GPS.
Jakarta to Solo/Surakarta in 1 minute plane flight time lapse || Airbus A 320 citilink
There is absolutely NOTHING in that about GPS!
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
Jakarta to Solo/Surakarta in 1 minute plane flight time lapse || Airbus A 320 citilink
It's the SAME video! Your whole post says NOTHING!
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
In order for GPS to work it needs to be based upon accurate maps. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be capable of accurately reporting your position, this is especially true with open source receivers.
So GPS, accurately determining your position, shows that the maps it uses are accurate.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What?
Just what is this meant to mean or show?
By any type of map, from Jakarta to Surakarta, or Jakarta to Bali, you'll have to fly entirely above the Java island, not Java sea.
The definition of 'West' and 'East' in globe map is wrong so that the navigation will become wrong as well.
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
What's the issue with this flight?
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxnNuF.png?1)
The true reality fits PHEW Map, not Globe map.
If you fly straight westwards from Jakarta, the altitude will grow lower, You'll come to above Java sea.
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
What's the issue with this flight?
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxnNuF.png?1)
The true reality fits PHEW Map, not Globe map.
If you fly straight westwards from Jakarta, the altitude will grow lower, You'll come to above Java sea.
You're not making sense. The Lion Air flight above flies from Jakarta east to Surakarta, simple as that. Are you saying that Lion Air is flying in the exact opposite direction of how they should be flying?
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By any type of map, from Jakarta to Surakarta, or Jakarta to Bali, you'll have to fly entirely above the Java island, not Java sea.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/51bke8mmorys0zm/Flightradar24%20Jakarta%20%28CGK%29%20to%20Surakarta%20%28SOC%29.jpg?dl=1)
Flightradar24 Jakarta (CGK) to Surakarta (SOC)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh1fjluoyf42u94/Flightradar24%20Jakarta%20%28CGK%29%20to%20Denpasar%20%28DPS%29.jpg?dl=1)
Flightradar24 Jakarta (CGK) to Denpasar (DPS)
I see no problems with these flights?
The direction the plane takes off and lands depends on local winds and airlines would prefer not to fly over mountains if avoidable.
Where do you see any problems?
The definition of 'West' and 'East' in globe map is wrong so that the navigation will become wrong as well.
No it's not! How do you work that out? The earth rotates from west to east so the sun rises in the east.
East is very close to the direction the sun rises and West is very close to the direction the sun sets!
Hasn't anyone told you that yet?
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By any type of map, from Jakarta to Surakarta, or Jakarta to Bali, you'll have to fly entirely above the Java island, not Java sea.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/51bke8mmorys0zm/Flightradar24%20Jakarta%20%28CGK%29%20to%20Surakarta%20%28SOC%29.jpg?dl=1)
Flightradar24 Jakarta (CGK) to Surakarta (SOC)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/zh1fjluoyf42u94/Flightradar24%20Jakarta%20%28CGK%29%20to%20Denpasar%20%28DPS%29.jpg?dl=1)
Flightradar24 Jakarta (CGK) to Denpasar (DPS)
I see no problems with these flights?
The direction the plane takes off and lands depends on local winds and airlines would prefer not to fly over mountains if avoidable.
Where do you see any problems?
The definition of 'West' and 'East' in globe map is wrong so that the navigation will become wrong as well.
No it's not! How do you work that out? The earth rotates from west to east so the sun rises in the east.
East is very close to the direction the sun rises and West is very close to the direction the sun sets!
Hasn't anyone told you that yet?
Have you tried Bali - Jakarta flight?
"Go west" means go "Java sea".
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
In order for GPS to work it needs to be based upon accurate maps. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be capable of accurately reporting your position, this is especially true with open source receivers.
So GPS, accurately determining your position, shows that the maps it uses are accurate.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What?
Just what is this meant to mean or show?
Perhaps 'get lost' means 'inefficient'. If you can go straight why you go curved?
Flights with (minor) turnings suggest that your reference is not perfect yet.
All flights still rely on globe map. Turning in flights is supposed to be a flaw. You claim having a correct earth map, GPS bla bla bla .. why should flights not go straight?
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
What's the issue with this flight?
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxnNuF.png?1)
The true reality fits PHEW Map, not Globe map.
If you fly straight westwards from Jakarta, the altitude will grow lower, You'll come to above Java sea.
You're not making sense. The Lion Air flight above flies from Jakarta east to Surakarta, simple as that. Are you saying that Lion Air is flying in the exact opposite direction of how they should be flying?
If the direction is right, the flight will go above the land. That means you don't go east, but a bit south east.
I spoke about globe flaw.
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Note:
The state of being above the sea lasts until some time before landing at Jakarta. That's what I experienced in 2012 8)
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What about Jakarta to Surakarta?
Ridiculously the SAME! ;D
What's the issue with this flight?
(https://i.imgur.com/eQxnNuF.png?1)
The true reality fits PHEW Map, not Globe map.
If you fly straight westwards from Jakarta, the altitude will grow lower, You'll come to above Java sea.
You're not making sense. The Lion Air flight above flies from Jakarta east to Surakarta, simple as that. Are you saying that Lion Air is flying in the exact opposite direction of how they should be flying?
If the direction is right, the flight will go above the land. That means you don't go east, but a bit south east.
I spoke about globe flaw.
I still don't get what you're saying. The flight goes East and a little south (Look at the image). Wherein lies the issue?
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Note:
The state of being above the sea lasts until some time before landing at Jakarta. That's what I experienced in 2012 8)
I have no idea what your problem with the flight from Denpasar to Jakarta might be. Here the flight path of a very recent flight:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ph90yp390ovtew5/Flightradar24%20Denpasar%20%28DPS%29%20to%20Jakarta%20%28CGK%29.png?dl=1)
Flightradar24 Denpasar (DPS) to Jakarta (CGK)
It takes off in an almost easterly direction then turns left to head West-North-West avoiding the more mountainous regions.
The flies over both land and ocean till finally passing Jakarta and turning left again to land in a roughly easterly directly.
Why is that a problem?
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(https://gwebangethome.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/photoeditor_20190924_090653989.jpg?w=768)
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Planes make noise.
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By any type of map, from Jakarta to Surakarta, or Jakarta to Bali, you'll have to fly entirely above the Java island, not Java sea.
If you want a direct route to Surakarta, sure.
However if you take off heading east you will likely go out over the sea for a portion of the journey.
Even if you did take a direct you, you would be quite close to the sea and easily see it out the window.
Going to Bali you would cross over a portion of the sea even for a direct route.
So again, that video shows no problem.
The definition of 'West' and 'East' in globe map is wrong so that the navigation will become wrong as well.
Says you.
You have provided absolutely nothing to indicate that is the case.
Perhaps 'get lost' means 'inefficient'. If you can go straight why you go curved?
Well the first thing to ask is if you can go straight?
As the runways are not aligned correctly, YOU CANT!
But even if you can, there is still the question of if you should.
Pilots will often change course to use winds or avoid bad weather or specific terrain.
Some will be restricted to specific air corridors and will need to turn to follow them.
Some times multiple planes will be in the same area and they will need to turn to keep a safe distance.
The straight route is not always the best.
And just like so often, none of this is actually an argument against the globe, because all maps will have this problem.
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(https://gwebangethome.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/photoeditor_20190924_090653989.jpg?w=768)
Why not? Well, as Sokarul pointed out, noise abatement for one. As well as air traffic, weather, take-off/approach, mountains-safety-diversion sites, a whole bunch of reasons.
But at the end of the day, the flight path in the image was 983 km. Your absolute straight line is 956 km. A difference of 27 km. 27 km is a problem? Given all the variables during a flight you think the entire positioning/navigating systems used the world over for the safe transport of all goods and humans should be "dumped"?
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Commercial aircraft don't fly straight lines from A to B, they follow predefined air paths or corridors based on safety and environmental considerations which can also change due to other factors such as weather conditions, air traffic and aircraft type.
Trying to figure out a map of the world based on flight paths is an absurd endeavor. There are much better methods and tools for that purpose and the world had been very accurately mapped way before aviation existed anyway.
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Flights with (minor) turnings suggest that your reference is not perfect yet.
All flights still rely on globe map. Turning in flights is supposed to be a flaw. You claim having a correct earth map, GPS bla bla bla .. why should flights not go straight?
airspace restrictions, ATC routing, weather, holding patterns, great circle routes. It is extremely naive to think they should always go straight.
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GPS only tell you *which direction to go*, not provide the right understanding about the true map.
In order for GPS to work it needs to be based upon accurate maps. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be capable of accurately reporting your position, this is especially true with open source receivers.
So GPS, accurately determining your position, shows that the maps it uses are accurate.
As I posted before : Jakarta to Bali flight will get lost to above Java sea.
What?
Just what is this meant to mean or show?
Perhaps 'get lost' means 'inefficient'. If you can go straight why you go curved?
Flights with (minor) turnings suggest that your reference is not perfect yet.
All flights still rely on globe map. Turning in flights is supposed to be a flaw. You claim having a correct earth map, GPS bla bla bla .. why should flights not go straight?
As I told you in another thread, you try to explain yourself how things and the world work with your limited knowledge and instead of looking for those answers in reliable sources you just tell yourself “if I can’t explain it, it should be a hoax”.
There are many websites where you can track flights in real time or see previous flights tracks. Go to this websites and you will realize that almost none commercial flight flies in straight line. Why? There are many reasons: wheather, airspace configuration, airways, air traffic flow, airspace restrictions, etc.
Being myself an airline pilot if you have questions concerning aviation I will be glad to try to help.
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Sergio999 is a roundearther pilot. However flatearther pilots exist as well.
The shape of the earth is being in dispute among pilots.
I wonder if the map has the same case.
According my research, if you go eastwards or westwards:
- On northern hemiplane you'll gradually go to higher latitudes.
- On southern hemiplane you'll gradually go to lower latitudes.
It applies if you navigate by manually, by not autopilot.
Do you navigate by manually or autopilot? I heard nowadays flight navigation is run with autopilot.
Flight Jakarta-Jeddah. Does it go:
west due north?
or
west?
or
west due south?
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Sergio999 is a roundearther pilot. However flatearther pilots exist as well.
Never met one.
The shape of the earth is being in dispute among pilots.
I wonder if the map has the same case.
Who are these pilots that are disputing the shape of the earth?
According my research, if you go eastwards or westwards:
- On northern hemiplane you'll gradually go to higher latitudes.
- On southern hemiplane you'll gradually go to lower latitudes.
It applies if you navigate by manually, by not autopilot.
Do you navigate by manually or autopilot? I heard nowadays flight navigation is run with autopilot.
Flight Jakarta-Jeddah. Does it go:
west due north?
or
west?
or
west due south?
According to the commercial airline industry:
(https://i.imgur.com/M4HEzqe.png?1)
So you decide what direction this is. And if you think the commercial airline industry is flying the wrong way, you should let them know they are doing it wrong.
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Stash says:
"Who are these pilots that are disputing the shape of the earth?"
>> I believe deep in all pilot's hearts they admit the flatness of the earth.
"And if you think the commercial airline industry is flying the wrong way, you should let them know they are doing it wrong"
>> Establishments have the same habits. I never got a response, so I decided to just post my thoughts at forums. I believe my messages will come to their ears in the end.
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Stash says:
"Who are these pilots that are disputing the shape of the earth?"
>> I believe deep in all pilot's hearts they admit the flatness of the earth.
If you want to hang your hat on this video that commercial pilots are Flat Earthers, then ok, have at it. But it's bunk. They are just nodding along with the questions. You need an actual commercial pilot to sit there and say, "Yes, the earth is flat, it is not a globe."
"And if you think the commercial airline industry is flying the wrong way, you should let them know they are doing it wrong"
>> Establishments have the same habits. I never got a response, so I decided to just post my thoughts at forums. I believe my messages will come to their ears in the end.
You didn't respond to the direction of the flight you asked about. Are they flying the wrong way?
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@Stash
The pilots on the video have said "yes, the earth is flat" with different way.
Or IF the issue here is a Phew vs Globe, you can research flight time lapses. There are multiple minor turnings in every flight which is unbelievable to me.
So there must have been misconception about the earth map, so that the flights cannot go straight for the shake of time and efficiency.
Even in the earliest intercontinent sailings, many ships and cargos got lost.
It's strange. If they had owned the correct map, there would not had been lost ships.
As to the flight direction, I suggested a straight path for efficiency.
The open air is super vast, so technically airplanes cannot easily collide to each other. It just needs a little bit management of flight traffics, especially for altitude positions for every airplane.
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The open air is super vast, so technically airplanes cannot easily collide to each other. It just needs a little bit management of flight traffics, especially for altitude positions for every airplane.
Do you really think the open air is vast and technically planes need just "a little bit management of flight traffics"? You say this based upon what?
Here's a real time view right now of the air traffic around Jakarta. Does this look like it only needs a little bit of management:
(https://i.imgur.com/Q8SVPjw.png?1)
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As to the flight direction, I suggested a straight path for efficiency.
The open air is super vast, so technically airplanes cannot easily collide to each other. It just needs a little bit management of flight traffics, especially for altitude positions for every airplane.
But a straight path requires the runway to be aligned with your destination. Throw in the management, and weather and it wont be straight.
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@Stash
The pilots on the video have said "yes, the earth is flat" with different way.
Or IF the issue here is a Phew vs Globe, you can research flight time lapses. There are multiple minor turnings in every flight which is unbelievable to me.
So there must have been misconception about the earth map, so that the flights cannot go straight for the shake of time and efficiency.
Even in the earliest intercontinent sailings, many ships and cargos got lost.
It's strange. If they had owned the correct map, there would not had been lost ships.
As to the flight direction, I suggested a straight path for efficiency.
The open air is super vast, so technically airplanes cannot easily collide to each other. It just needs a little bit management of flight traffics, especially for altitude positions for every airplane.
I hope you realize that your beliefs are based in ASSUMPTIONS. Your are showing off your lack of knowledge and you are not interested in learning why the Earth cant be flat, you just try to justify the flat Earth model with your limited knowledge. You are ASUMMING that airplanes can fly straight paths and you don't even try to investigate why this is not possible. As many of us have already told you, airplanes dont fly straight paths because of air traffic control flow, airspace design, terrain, weather and many other reasons.
By the way, I have been flying airliners for almost 25 years and I have never met a pilot who does not belive the Earth is a globe.
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Okay, me >> ASSUMPTIONS... Sergio999 >> JOKINGS...
It's a deal?~
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Okay, me >> ASSUMPTIONS... Sergio999 >> JOKINGS...
It's a deal?~
You have state very clear that you ASSUME many facts that lead you to belive that the Earth is flat. You are the one who try to defend a flat Earth model that is not even accepted for most flat earthers.
My “jokings” are very easily verifiable from many different reliable sources.
so who is telling jokes?
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Sergio999 forgot his offer to help me know about flight, e.g. Jakarta - Jeddah flight. ✌