The Flat Earth Society

The Flat Earth Society => Suggestions & Concerns => Topic started by: sandokhan on September 12, 2019, 10:36:38 PM

Title: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 12, 2019, 10:36:38 PM
Everyday we have to deal here with two paid shills (eight hours a day, full time job) who are absolutely incorrigible and unrelenting in spreading lies.

There is nothing that the FES can do for them anymore: they are not here to learn but only to provide an unrelenting daily output of blatant lies.

The other FE website does not have to deal with them, and it shows.

No other forum would tolerate such a situation.

rabinoz and his alt (jackblack) cannot be changed, there is nothing the FES can do for them anymore, so good riddance then.

At worst, have them post only in the lower forums, at best, ban them for good.


Is there a special reason why you john, or scg, or boydster allow this nonsense to go on here unabated?

They have been here for years now, thousands and thousands of messages which contain only lies, on a daily basis, uninterrupted.

Why does the FES have to put up with this?

What they have done, even though they could not convince anyone here, is to stall the entire flat earth research process, no new topic can be presented to be discussed in a civilized manner.

If they will never change, and just be a daily nuissance, my question is this: why do we have to put up with them?

Did you sign a special contract when you became an admin or a mod to allow these two to troll this forum on a daily basis? And if not, what is stopping you to simply get rid of them?

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 13, 2019, 12:22:02 AM
Perhaps the issue is that the Flat Earth Society has not yet been started, in which the website and forum's purpose and activities are designed and organized in a democratic fashion by its FE'ers. This is the only conceivable way forward.

At present the society is basically a place where people go to print out a certificate and a forum where basically anything goes. That's certainly not how any other society or club operates. Its active members should be able to choose what they want it to be and what activities they want to operate.

Which Flat Earth Society said and voted on the idea that we want endless free-for-all debate with the unwashed masses? If there is debate, perhaps the FES wants it to be organized or structured. Perhaps there are many other alternative activities it could be running and focusing on. That should be for the FES to decide.

That's my recommendation, which will solve all problems and satisfy all proponents. Start the Flat Earth Society.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: rabinoz on September 13, 2019, 12:53:16 AM
Everyday we have to deal here with two paid shills (eight hours a day, full time job) who are absolutely incorrigible and unrelenting in spreading lies.
Please name these "paid shills".
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: wise on September 13, 2019, 02:28:42 AM
I think it is basically that society's disease is its being a controlled opposition. It probably goes to older dates. at this point, there is a possibility that the character of John Davis is actually a planned and designed person for this job. frankly, the dialogue among the management level is limited and not convincing. when they talk about something about themselves or about among themselves, it is less likely to be true, more likely to be a scenario. In this respect, it seems like these salaried persons are also part of this scenario in the case.

So far, the reflexes that society administration has shown about ordinary situations show that it is not a real flat earth society, but tries to place it on a line that imitates it and mocks people. The attitudes of the two salaried shill here coincide with the attitudes of the moderation and admin team and become part of it. at this point, I do not think that the question in the opening call will be answered in real terms. the incoming response will be an answer which inaccurate, or mocked to facts.

The reality that we have to see at this point is that many groups formed much later than this society passed through this society very quickly and were more successful. So much so that, we can clearly say that The Flat Earth Society be pale in comparison to the other societies whose have been created years and years later. The society is immobile and inactive as if it were frozen. Despite all the well-intentioned efforts of the true believers in society, community management is committed to showing absurd attitudes as if it proves that this society is not part of this movement.

There is no chance that John Davis or space cowgirl can direct things on their own initiative. frankly they do their duties just like the other two. Even Daniel Shenton's name similarity with Samuel Shenton proves how planned and absurd the event is. that name has also been produced, expired, no longer needed and no longer used. where's daniel? Oh, sure, at sea.

If we throw everything to wind then we can clearly say that John and scg have never a chance to chance / decide anything. clearly, there is a supreme institution that forces them to behave in this way, and these two act according to their orders. in this respect, just as puppets cannot move without the knowledge and order of its owner.

Hence, John and scg are not the main interlocutors of the question here. the parent institution is the addressee of this question. The institution resident in maryland where scg lives should make this decision. after that, will they continue to block things with this strange attitude, or will they act according to the facts? this community is totally out of the game. people come to learn the thoughts of only two people from the outside. some of the rest of the believer people either disappeared among the crowd, and some others are not sincere.

We can save this society. we can reintegrate it into the game. accept some things and leave life to the usual flow.

Best regards.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 02:39:48 AM
Let me exemplify what is going, and what we, the FE, have to deal with on a daily basis.

This is just from today, minutes ago (remember, these two shills have been posting in a similar manner for years here now):

Only a moron or a dishonest scumbag would subtract.

CORRECT SAGNAC FORMULA:

2(V1L1 + V2L2)/c2
If that is the "CORRECT SAGNAC FORMULA" please explain why all of Michelson, Sagnac, Silberstein, Paolo Maranez and Jean-Pierre Zendri all disagree with your expression!

Quote from: sandokhan
As such, your analysis is the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula, and not at all the SAGNAC EFFECT.
Incorrect! Go and read up on the Coriolis acceleration and it's nothing like what you claim!

Obviously, there is NOTHING that anyone here can do to please these two shills.

Why then is their presence still tolerated on this forum?

They are sabotaging this forum, the flat earth society, on a daily basis.

Their displeasure with the flat earth theory is unrelenting.

Both shills are very annoyed with this forum.

Then, john and scg and boydster, why should we continue this "relationship" where nothing can be done anymore to please these two shills?

They are not here to learn, but only to deny, to do anything they can on a daily basis to disrupt this forum.

Would anyone else, anywhere else on the internet, allow such a state of affairs?

Of course not.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on September 13, 2019, 04:57:12 AM

Am I missing something here?
Between you, you don’t want to be challenged, you don’t like the moderation, it isn’t the society you want, surely the answer is to pool your talents and set “that” society up, rather than carp about what others have done?
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 05:34:17 AM
There's nothing that any of us here can do for these two paid shills.

If you invite someone in your own home, who then complains daily about you, even spits in your face, no matter what you do, would you let that person to live with you anymore?

Of course not.

There is no "challenge".

Only a constant, daily denying of ANYTHING.

These two are very unhappy here.

Nothing that we can do can please them.

The other website does not have to deal with them; nobody in their right mind would.

I have already debunked their amateurish 'arguments' a long time ago.

All they are doing now is sabotaging this forum.

I want to know why the admin and mods GO ALONG WITH THIS SORT OF PLAN.

Would it be better if all of us here, the FE, just stop responding or posting anything, so that the mods themselves start to have to deal with rabinoz/jackblack?

Would any other forum allow this sort of sabotaging to go on unabated?

What "challenge" have these two ever put up, really?

NOTHING AT ALL.

I can debunk their drivel in less than 10 seconds.

But they are allowed to troll this forum on a daily basis, even though they will never change their ways.

A lose-lose proposition for the FES.

They will NEVER change, they are here just to deny, eight hours a day: who in the world would do this to themselves, like we do here? Frankly, there is nothing that the FES can do anymore for these two shills.

It has become a daily nightmare to have to respond to the very same arguments they used some years ago.

Just take a look at the fresh responses from today: how is that a challenge, and not plain trolling, while the admin/mods look the other way?

No moderators to remind them, at least, that already their failed arguments were answered.

Question: why do the admin and mods put up with this unnecessary situation?

If rabinoz/jackblack is not happy here, then let them go, ban them for good.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: wise on September 13, 2019, 05:49:28 AM
We want the like button here.

Such a wrong practice can only be the work of an institution whose whole life is based on mistakes. These two are not happy here, and anything doesn't make them happy, they don't make me happy, don't make the visitor happy. they prevent visitors and writers from entering the dialogue. they prevent visitors from asking questions. The questions of the visitors disappear between the questions of these two.

There are hundreds of millions of believers out there. is it that the world turns into a more rounded place when the two of them constantly deal with us a few believers less than ten, make fun of us, and do similar things?
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 13, 2019, 08:00:44 AM
Is there a special reason why you john, or scg, or boydster allow this nonsense to go on here unabated?

The only reason is that this is a forum meant for debate. We don't ban people for debating.

I miss a lot of JackBlack's insulting comments because I find him so boring that I usually scroll through without reading. He shouldn't be sprinkling insults inside his replies. I have banned him for 3 days.

rab is an old guy with nothing to do in real life. He spends all day every day here. He rarely actually breaks the rules, but when he does I give him a few days off.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 08:07:41 AM
Thanks for your reply.

But they are NOT debating anymore.

There is no "debate".

rabinoz by now has templates (believe or not) which he uses for every response. That is, he doesn't care if he receives a reply which does answer his argument, not at all (as if in a normal debate). He will immediately post the next hour or the next day THE VERY SAME argument, as if nothing happened.

And this can't go on anymore.

There is no debating anymore with these two shills: they are very unhappy here, an everyday nuissance which nobody needs to deal with.

Their goal is to sabotage this forum for good.

They get away with quite a lot, no one else would tolerate such a behaviour.

So, with these two there is no debating anymore: they lack the skills to debate, they get away with posting the very same arguments, over and over again, ad nauseam, while they should get banned for pulling off such a scheme on us here.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Crouton on September 13, 2019, 08:19:32 AM
If he's spamming the same message over and over then by all means, report the incident.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 13, 2019, 08:30:01 AM
I find them both a detriment to actual debate, and I agree with your analysis of them, sandokhan.

Maybe we should have a discussion about the rules of the forum. I try to be fair when I am issuing bans and warnings. I don't think it is ever a good idea to have too strict rules. I've seen many forums wither away because they are over moderated. We have to find the balance between letting people speak freely, but not so freely that they end up clogging the forum with crap.

Perhaps we should moderate the debate forum more strictly. FE General has always been a bit more loose, but debate was supposed to be strictly moderated. We've allowed the debate forum to become the same as the general forum. 
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 08:39:53 AM
Let me give you an example.

Again, this is not out of some Kafkaesque nightmare, but is going on right here on this forum.

Incorrect! I would believe General relativistic Sagnac formula revised by Paolo Maraner · Jean-Pierre Zendri (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1643.pdf) before anything you wrote.
He first presents the usual result, without relativistic correction at the start:
                           https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9ihm45mdja08au/General%20relativistic%20Sagnac%20formula%20revised%20by%20Paolo%20Maraner%20%C2%B7%20Jean-Pierre%20Zendri%20-%20Fig.%201.png?dl=1

And then, you will be glad to know that they did a general analysis including relativistic effects for a Sagnac Loop rotating about a point a distance R outside the loop.
Here is their result:
                            https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1t6uxf1nw8w6b4/General%20relativistic%20Sagnac%20formula%20revised%20by%20Paolo%20Maraner%20%C2%B7%20Jean-Pierre%20Zendri.png?dl=1
had they not used the relativistic correction the loop delay would have been independent of the centre of rotation

So I'll stick to believing this:
That paper did not give the rotation rate, just the stability etc.
But this paper does: Ring-Lasers seismic rotational sensing, Angela Di Virgilio-INFN-Pisa (https://agenda.infn.it/getFile.py/access?contribId=140&sessionId=5&resId=0&materialId=slides&confId=10512)

Of course, I immediately pointed out that Zendri and Maraner presented the Coriolis effect formula with relativistic terms added:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=76685.msg2076540#msg2076540


Any sane person would understand and simply move on to something else.

But not rabinoz.


But this paper gives a the simple analysis and then a General Relativistic analysis for a loop with the centre of rotation far outside: General relativistic Sagnac formula revised by Paolo Maraner · Jean-Pierre Zendri (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1643.pdf)
He first presents the usual result, without relativistic correction at the start:
                            https://www.dropbox.com/s/k9ihm45mdja08au/General%20relativistic%20Sagnac%20formula%20revised%20by%20Paolo%20Maraner%20%C2%B7%20Jean-Pierre%20Zendri%20-%20Fig.%201.png?dl=1

And then, you will be glad to know that they did a general analysis including relativistic effects for a Sagnac Loop rotating about a point a distance R outside the loop.
Here is their result:
                            https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1t6uxf1nw8w6b4/General%20relativistic%20Sagnac%20formula%20revised%20by%20Paolo%20Maraner%20%C2%B7%20Jean-Pierre%20Zendri.png?dl=1
had they not used the relativistic correction the loop delay would have been independent of the centre of rotation.

Imagine, being faced with the same argument you debunked before.

This is what I call the unrelentless effort to sabotage this forum.

This is not debating anymore, but pure trolling.

Of course, I had to answer his argument again:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=79637.msg2147398#msg2147398


Again, anyone else would understand and not present the very same argument yet again.

But not rabinoz.



You might read the General Relativistic analysis for a Sagnac loop: General Relativistic Sagnac formula revised by Paolo Maraner · Jean-Pierre Zendri (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.1643.pdf).

Again, I had to answer the same argument:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=79931.msg2198088#msg2198088


Again, one might think that this is enough.

Not for rabinoz.


Why does your expression for the Sagnac differ from that of Sagnac, Michelson, Silverstone, Mathpages and the "General relativistic Sagnac formula revised by Maraner and Zendri".
The latter does give a solution for a Sagnac device with the centre-of-rotation far from the loop see: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov40a15kkr8uogv/General%20relativistic%20Sagnac%20formula%20revised%2C%20Maraner%2C%20Zendri%20-%20eqn%20%2817%29.png?dl=1
Do you claim to be smarter than all these physicists?  The first order term agrees with the other solutions.

IS THIS DEBATING, or something else, perhaps the deliberate sabotaging of this forum?


Here is he at it again:


And, of course, your expression can only be accurate when the centre of rotation is far outside the loop
so is not a general expression as is Maraner and Zendri's: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ov40a15kkr8uogv/General%20relativistic%20Sagnac%20formula%20revised%2C%20Maraner%2C%20Zendri%20-%20eqn%20%2817%29.png?dl=1


The admin and the mods should take note of this deliberate effort to sabotage a DEBATE, by delivering the same answer all over again, even though it was debunked the very first time.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on September 13, 2019, 09:11:49 AM

I have to say that what usually makes me stop reading a thread is when Sandy turn up with reams of copy pasta that more often than not bears only a passing relevance to the discussion. To then accuse others of that is ironic.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 10:04:34 AM
It bears relevance when the RE make claims about gravity, relativity and such.

Then, I have to intervene to set things straight.

Certainly you have learned a lot, quite a lot from my messages over the years, material you won't find anywhere else.

Some RE are very stubborn and then I have to justify my answers using the necessary bibliography.

What rabinoz/jackblack does is to REPEAT the same argument as if they had not received an adequate response the very first time.

This is not debating, but trolling.

How would you respond to claims like this:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202481#msg2202481

It was rabinoz who hijacked the thread, not me.

But of course you failed to notice that.

So, I had to respond to those claims.

Within that same thread, one RE said this also:

The Earth is shaped by gravitation that keeps it together, and by tectonics and rotation.

How would YOU respond to this?

Not by using ample bibliographic material to sustain an answer?

Which is exactly what I did.

Did I hijack the thread, or was it the RE themselves?

In a debate, once an argument has been debunked, you do not repeat all over again; what rabinoz does it to repeat again and again the very same information, ad nauseam, which is trolling not debating.

Here he is again at it:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2203649#msg2203649

This is from just a few hours ago.

The same trolling techniques: he tells lies after lies; once he is caught, he reverses to the same arguments he used before, profiting from not being strictly moderated.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Tom Bishop on September 13, 2019, 10:17:20 AM
@Sandokan, @wise,

This approach of ban-this or change-this has been tried before. I have seen this thread many times. The only possible way to go is to have the FE'ers sign a petition that they want to be able to manage and design their own society democratically. If a majority of the FE want to change things, then it should be changed at the desire of the society. The admins have shown you already that they aren't going to change things for you. They might change things for all of us.

Space Cowgirl said that we should discuss it and agree on something. Sounds like a step towards what I suggested. I recommend going down that path. If this management-through-deliberation scheme can be organized then it will solve this problem and all future problems.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Crouton on September 13, 2019, 10:29:45 AM
Stricter moderation of the debate subforum is a good suggestion.  I agree.

If you want to have a discussion without the evil rounders though, there is the believer's subforum.

Addtionally, Sandokhan, I don't want to name names here but there are some flat earthers here that this criticism of excessive copypasta would apply to just as much if not more than Rab.  I think a fair amount of tolerance is in order to promote open discussion.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 10:30:11 AM
Here is another unbelievable instance of cognitive dissonance on the part of rabinoz.

Obviously, he is unable, psychologically, to face up to reality.

Why, then, should we the FE act as caretakers?

Here is what he said today:

No lies there because, whatever you say, "The current theory as to the cause of gravitation is as described in Einstein's Theory of General Relativity."


Sorry, but Einstein's equations can certainly be applied to Mercury's perihelion, gravitational lensing and to the bending of light.


But I posted the denial by Einstein himself that his equations do not have a bounded dynamic solution (gravitational wave solution):

(https://i.ibb.co/TBrqJ0L/125.jpg)

Can there be something more obvious than this?

Einstein knew in 1936 that his equations do not have a bounded dynamic solution.


Does this constitute as solid proof?

Sure it does.

But rabinoz cannot face reality.

Again here are his words:

Sorry, but Einstein's equations can certainly be applied to Mercury's perihelion, gravitational lensing and to the bending of light.

He is lying to his readers, even though his statement had been previously debunked using the very quote from Einstein himself.

If you do not have a bounded dynamic solution, then obviously one cannot apply those equations to DYNAMIC SITUATIONS, such as Mercury's perihelion.

In 1921, the chairman of the Nobel prize committee, A. Gullstrand, REFUSED to give Einstein the Nobel prize in physics since he found out that there is no dynamic solution to his equations, and failed to receive an answer from Einstein himself.

In fact here is the mathematical proof that the original Einstein gravitational equations do not have a dynamic bounded solution:


https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2196454#msg2196454

https://cirworld.com/index.php/jap/article/view/354

See also:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2194825#msg2194825


Solid proofs.


But rabinoz cannot face reality, be it from a psychological cause.


He will lie again and again, using the same arguments which were clearly debunked before.


He cannot understand, or will not accept the fact that Einstein's original equations cannot be used for many body problems (such as Mercury's perihelion).

What then are we the FE supposed to do here?

To repeat all over again the same proofs which debunk his failed claims.

This is no longer debating, but having to deal with rabinoz' trolling.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 10:41:22 AM
Addtionally, Sandokhan, I don't want to name names here but there are some flat earthers here that this criticism of excessive copypasta would apply to just as much if not more than Rab.  I think a fair amount of tolerance is in order to promote open discussion.

How would you answer a clear hijacking of the thread?

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202481#msg2202481

Or this kind of statement:

The Earth is shaped by gravitation that keeps it together, and by tectonics and rotation.

How would YOU respond to this?

Not by using ample bibliographic material to sustain an answer?

Which is exactly what I did.


Let the RE try to debunk my arguments, the so called copy&pasta.

If they can, obviously I would not use them again.

That would be trolling.

Which is exactly what rabinoz does: he uses arguments which were debunked before all over again, which is trolling, not debating.

I posted above what he did several times.

And he does this with EVERY argument he uses in a debate.

Each of those arguments was debunked before.

Yet, he uses them again, as if nothing happened.

Obviously, a clear case of cognitive dissonance.

This is what I am saying: why should we on this forum right here act as caretakers for someone who REFUSES to face up to reality?

Do you understand what I am telling you?

He will never change, not after 20,000+ messages.

All he does is to sabotage on a daily basis this forum.

You think I would use the copy&pasta if he understood from the very first instance what is going on?

rabinoz is very unhappy here: why do we allow him to stay then?


I know which FE complained about my messages.

But I did not hijack those threads, the RE did.

In fact rabinoz himself:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202481#msg2202481

He uses the debunked lighthouse and Pontchartrain arguments again, even though they were debunked many times before.

It is his trolling which gave me the obligation to respond.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 13, 2019, 10:44:36 AM
Whenever one of them derails a thread you should send me a message or report it. Messages work, I do not mind getting messages. Sometimes reports get buried by other reports. When you reply to a derail, you make it more difficult to moderate. There have been times when I wanted to clean up a thread, but it was so trashed I couldn't see the point.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Crouton on September 13, 2019, 10:46:09 AM
If he's spamming then that's against the rules.

For disagreeing, not seeing the wisdom of your arguments, not accepting reality.  That's not really what the mods are supposed to do here.  We're not here to pick winners and losers.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 10:48:12 AM
I find them both a detriment to actual debate, and I agree with your analysis of them, sandokhan.

Maybe we should have a discussion about the rules of the forum. I try to be fair when I am issuing bans and warnings. I don't think it is ever a good idea to have too strict rules. I've seen many forums wither away because they are over moderated. We have to find the balance between letting people speak freely, but not so freely that they end up clogging the forum with crap.

Perhaps we should moderate the debate forum more strictly.

Yes, exactly.


Whenever one of them derails a thread you should send me a message or report it. Messages work, I do not mind getting messages. Sometimes reports get buried by other reports. When you reply to a derail, you make it more difficult to moderate. There have been times when I wanted to clean up a thread, but it was so trashed I couldn't see the point.

I agree.




Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 10:52:03 AM
If he's spamming then that's against the rules.

For disagreeing, not seeing the wisdom of your arguments, not accepting reality.  That's not really what the mods are supposed to do here.  We're not here to pick winners and losers.

They suffer from cognitive dissonance.

Sure you must pick a winner in a TECHNICAL DEBATE.

This is what every RE forum does: the mods intervene immediately to settle disputes.

On forum.cosmoquest they even give a time limit for proving something (30 days), the mods constantly remind the users if their arguments have been debunked.

If what rabinoz or jackblack say has been DEBUNKED, then their repeating of the very same argument all over again is SPAMMING, agreed.

This is what I am saying: if they have psychological problems with the shape of the Earth, relativity and other issues, it is not our business to try to cure them.

They will never give up, since they cannot face up to reality.

What then?

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 10:56:31 AM
Here is what forum.cosmoquest does to anybody who dares to criticize mainstream science:

https://forum.cosmoquest.org/forumdisplay.php?17-Against-the-Mainstream&s=4f9d939b88a6f67deeff0d6de84eeeb7

Shouldn't we do the very same here?

Both rabinoz and jackblack have received a free ride on this forum, sabotaging everything in their path.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Crouton on September 13, 2019, 11:07:30 AM

They suffer from cognitive dissonance.

Sure you must pick a winner in a TECHNICAL DEBATE.


We don't.  We officially don't do that.  We're not the truth police.

Some discussion forums do things that way.  That's fine.  We favor open mindedness over a specific dogma.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 11:18:19 AM
Then, that open mindedness will lead to situations like this:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82968.0

Imagine one of the moderators, or admin, reminding rabinoz/jackblack that their arguments have been indeed debunked, that they have to accept the results or go somewhere else where they will be happier.

They cannot face reality, thus they will sabotage each and every thread with spamming, trolling, simply refusing to accept what are very clear proofs.

What then?

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 13, 2019, 11:33:27 AM

What then?

Scroll Wheel
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Stash on September 13, 2019, 04:45:52 PM
Then, that open mindedness will lead to situations like this:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82968.0

Imagine one of the moderators, or admin, reminding rabinoz/jackblack that their arguments have been indeed debunked, that they have to accept the results or go somewhere else where they will be happier.

That's assuming their arguments have been debunked. You may think so, others may not agree with your assessment.

They cannot face reality, thus they will sabotage each and every thread with spamming, trolling, simply refusing to accept what are very clear proofs.

What then?

'Clear' is seemingly quite subjective.

A couple of things:

- Isn't what you're looking for already the 'Believers' section? Where you and other FEr's can discuss/debate your FE beliefs without RE in the mix?
- If maybe the Debate section was run like an actual debate, where winners and losers are called, like debate teams/competitions, that would be one thing. Seems like a lot of overhead with panels, deciders, minute by minute moderation. Seems like a whole other thing.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 13, 2019, 05:07:41 PM
The debate section is meant for serious discussion of FE. It was never run like an actual debate, but it wasn't supposed to be spammy and filled with insults. I'd like to think the discussions there were more serious in the past, but they probably weren't.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Stash on September 13, 2019, 05:34:39 PM
The debate section is meant for serious discussion of FE. It was never run like an actual debate, but it wasn't supposed to be spammy and filled with insults. I'd like to think the discussions there were more serious in the past, but they probably weren't.

Agreed, it shouldn't be spammy and full of insults. I guess really nothing should be up in the upper.

From kicking around and looking at the past, no, between the two, pretty much the same - I kind of think of General and Debate as almost swappable. Maybe that's what's gotten mooshed over the years. Seems like there was an intent on distinction, but they are really kind of duplicative. Does it matter? I kinda don't think so.

I think it all kind of goes back to what Tom was alluding to. What do you all want it to be?

- Is the society a place where like minded flat earthers can virtually gather and exchange ideas in a safe (and I don't mean this in a bad way) 'echo chamber', as it were. Much like Dubay's place.
- Or is the society where it is like today where you accept all comers and free thought for and agin? Debate, however squirelly that gets. No winners or losers are decided, each thread just goes where it goes and dies where it dies.
- Or is the society a controlled debate site, at least partially, massively moderated to announce winners and losers?

Conundrum, for sure.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 13, 2019, 05:53:03 PM
I think one of the problems is that people use the "new posts" or "new replies" feature, which doesn't tell you which part of the forum you're in. Makes it difficult to keep it all separate.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Stash on September 13, 2019, 06:09:02 PM
I think one of the problems is that people use the "new posts" or "new replies" feature, which doesn't tell you which part of the forum you're in. Makes it difficult to keep it all separate.

I've definitely made that mistake.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 13, 2019, 09:44:18 PM
Here we go yet again!!!

rabinoz is spamming this forum:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82968.msg2203781#msg2203781

He can't help himself.

This person has psychological problems and just won't let go.

What are we supposed to do?

He posted this SPAM even though we are discussing here the problems he is causing each and every day for this forum.

Again, he is sabotaging the very essence of this forum through uninterrupted spamming.

He already tried this sort of argument before, right here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82434.msg2200958#msg2200958

I answered him already and debunked his failed 'argument':

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82434.msg2200962#msg2200962


This is a thread about rabinoz/jackblack's incorrigible spamming and yet, ON THE VERY SAME DAY, rabinoz is at it again, spamming threads, as if no one cares.

How can this be?

He is a disruptive force to this forum, and there nothing anybody here can do to please him, he is spamming each thread he touches, each and every day.

We've had enough of this.

Give him a nice 30 day ban so he can really begin to reap the consequences of his actions.


That's assuming their arguments have been debunked.

Einstein himself debunked the entire argument:

(https://i.ibb.co/TBrqJ0L/125.jpg)


Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: wise on September 14, 2019, 12:08:25 AM
As far as I see, Tom Bishop has started to talk like a man in scenario. This makes us atmost two sincere flat earhers here. I'm not sure of sandokhan but sure about atleast myself.

I did not tell two shills have to be ban surely. I criticized an understanding here. while these two are banned, others will come. this task can be assigned to anyone here, boydster, bullwinkle, crouton, stash, markjo, even Jura or Junker and moreover John Davis or Space Cowgirl and many.

It is clear that this place for flat earth believers and there is a logical mistake a globalist being here 7 days 12 hours.  this is proof that the understanding behind the scenes of this forum is not flat earth.

@Tom; There are no flat earth believers at any stage of management. "restructuring" is not a solution. restructuring is meaningful if it occurs in a sincere, fair way.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 14, 2019, 01:03:11 AM
Here we go yet again!!!

rabinoz is spamming this forum:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82968.msg2203781#msg2203781

He can't help himself.

This person has psychological problems and just won't let go.

What are we supposed to do?

He posted this SPAM even though we are discussing here the problems he is causing each and every day for this forum.

Again, he is sabotaging the very essence of this forum through uninterrupted spamming.

He already tried this sort of argument before, right here:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82434.msg2200958#msg2200958

I answered him already and debunked his failed 'argument':

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82434.msg2200962#msg2200962


This is a thread about rabinoz/jackblack's incorrigible spamming and yet, ON THE VERY SAME DAY, rabinoz is at it again, spamming threads, as if no one cares.

How can this be?

He is a disruptive force to this forum, and there nothing anybody here can do to please him, he is spamming each thread he touches, each and every day.

We've had enough of this.

Give him a nice 30 day ban so he can really begin to reap the consequences of his actions.

This was earlier today.

Now, rabinoz has done it again:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=82968.msg2203908#msg2203908

I told you that this guy has deep psychological problems, what other proofs do we need?

Why is there no one here, among the mods, to take care of his spamming?

His arguments were debunked a long time ago, but his cognitive dissonance affliction won't permit him to let go.

So, john, scg and anyone among the mods who wants to listen, what are we going to do here with this incorrigible user?

Yesterday we were discussing this very issue, today rabinoz is spamming YET AGAIN this forum.

Why was he not punished immediately, as soon as I reported the spam the first time?

What is going on here?

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Bullwinkle on September 14, 2019, 01:05:04 AM

This person has psychological problems and just won't let go.

You keep saying that over and over and over and over again.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: rabinoz on September 14, 2019, 01:05:46 AM
I think one of the problems is that people use the "new posts" or "new replies" feature, which doesn't tell you which part of the forum you're in. Makes it difficult to keep it all separate.
I've been guilty for that reason but I'm gradually learning and have deleted a few of my posts that ended up in the "wrong" place.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 14, 2019, 01:16:27 AM

This person has psychological problems and just won't let go.

You keep saying that over and over and over and over again.

But it is an obvious fact for all to see.

Only someone who is deeply affected by some kind of problems acts like this.


I've been guilty for that reason but I'm gradually learning and have deleted a few of my posts that ended up in the "wrong" place.


YOU ARE LYING!!!

The spams you posted today are in full view.

You will never change, why is the FES going through all this trouble with this user who is sabotaging this forum on a daily basis?

He has to receive the punishment for having SPAMMED today, twice, in the very same thread.

He already used those arguments months ago, yet here he is at it yet again.

His cognitive dissonance problem cannot be cured here.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 14, 2019, 03:07:23 AM
rabinoz has just spammed the upper forums, a third time today:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2203973#msg2203973

Again: he cannot be cured here on this forum.

If he cannot face reality, the scientific facts which shatter his beliefs, how are we here supposed to deal with this?

His condition leaves no other option than to DENY, to OBFUSCATE, to SPAM on a daily basis.

Having SPAMMED this forum for a third time, in a single day, while we are having this discussion here, it means that rabinoz is defying everyone here, both the admin and the mods.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Stash on September 14, 2019, 03:34:49 AM

If he cannot face reality, the scientific facts which shatter his beliefs, how are we here supposed to deal with this?

His condition leaves no other option than to DENY, to OBFUSCATE, to SPAM on a daily basis.

Do you not see the pot calling the kettle black? 
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 14, 2019, 03:43:56 AM
You are trolling the S&C section and you have been reported for doing so.

The FES cannot nurse rabinoz back to health.

He has spammed, just today, this forum, three times.

There is nothing else that anybody here can do for him.

Here is the account of the third spam.

This is the first time rabinoz made use of this reference:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202712#msg2202712

I was able immediately to debunk (not deny, or obfuscate) his statement, using FOUR different references which show that the Christodolou-Kleinerman solution is false.


Any sensible, sane person would leave at that.

Not rabinoz.

Here he is, spamming this forum, again:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202733#msg2202733

Let us remember, he was just told that his reference is invalid.

So I had to respond again to his spam:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202747#msg2202747

I even used A FIFTH reference to back up my message.


This was four days ago.


Just today, rabinoz cannot face reality, and USES THE VERY SAME REFERENCE in a debate:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83134.msg2202747#msg2202747


As I said, his cognitive dissonance condition is precluding him from accepting scientific proofs.

Since he cannot face reality, he uses SPAMMING techniques to get around a debate, transforming this forum into a troll fest.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 14, 2019, 10:10:12 AM
You are reporting rabinoz for participating in a thread he started in Technology, Science, and Alt Science. Wouldn't it be easier to block him? He's not breaking the rules of the forum.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 14, 2019, 10:31:30 AM
But he is.

I explained earlier what happened:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83165.msg2203879#msg2203879

And he was at it again, later in the day:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83165.msg2203990#msg2203990

Spamming is against the rules: he is using the very same message he used before, months/weeks, to start another argument with, yet again.

This is what I was told to do in case of spamming:


If he's spamming the same message over and over then by all means, report the incident.

If he's spamming then that's against the rules.

Now, if you like rabinoz, you go ahead and debate FET with him, I have nothing against that. Since we the FE have to do it, then you must listen to what we have to say, and what we are saying is: ENOUGH.

He should not be here on this forum, period, since he is sabotaging each and every thread he participates in.

If you don't believe me, ask the other FE.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Plat Terra on September 14, 2019, 11:25:50 AM
But he is.

I explained earlier what happened:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83165.msg2203879#msg2203879

And he was at it again, later in the day:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=83165.msg2203990#msg2203990

Spamming is against the rules: he is using the very same message he used before, months/weeks, to start another argument with, yet again.

This is what I was told to do in case of spamming:


If he's spamming the same message over and over then by all means, report the incident.

If he's spamming then that's against the rules.

Now, if you like rabinoz, you go ahead and debate FET with him, I have nothing against that. Since we the FE have to do it, then you must listen to what we have to say, and what we are saying is: ENOUGH.

He should not be here on this forum, period, since he is sabotaging each and every thread he participates in.

If you don't believe me, ask the other FE.

Sandokhan is right. I often wonder why some RE members here are allowed to get away with their opposition tactics continuously and no one steps in to correct the problem. What I see here is, the RE opposition posts as if this forum is theirs, they rule and their way is to be accepted no matter what. A few follow in the tactics of rabinoz and it’s getting worse.

The FES does have a label of “The Opposition” hanging over their heads and yet allows such things to continue. Which is more important, removing the label or allow the RE opposition to rule here? 

There are other issues too. The FES has another forum and when I first went there I thought the forum was a joke. Would you take the message of a Flat Earth seriously if the administrator over a forum used an avatar like this?

(https://i.imgur.com/qZPmIef.jpg)
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 14, 2019, 12:33:17 PM
If you have a problem with Parsifal, take it up with him, on his forum. That is not our forum.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Plat Terra on September 14, 2019, 12:54:34 PM
If you have a problem with Parsifal, take it up with him, on his forum. That is not our forum.

The forum in question is not a "Flat Earth Society" forum?
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Stash on September 14, 2019, 01:05:14 PM
If you have a problem with Parsifal, take it up with him, on his forum. That is not our forum.

The forum in question is not a "Flat Earth Society" forum?

It's a different forum much like Coke and Pepsi are different but both are colas.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 14, 2019, 01:06:19 PM
If you want you can go make a "Flat Earth Society" forum. They are their own forum, we don't have any say in how they run it.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: wise on September 14, 2019, 01:18:11 PM
It is same forum, not different. Again, it is same forum. Other forum has created by shortened name of this one. The members here have created it. Both admins are globalist. You can think it like boydster and crouton have created another forum. These are also staff here. If they create another forum; can it be done without their manager John and scg don't allow it? Exactly.

John has ordered some members to create other forum then they have did it. They are puppets like how admins of this forum pupputs of somebody else. Other forum admins are puppets of puppets.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Plat Terra on September 14, 2019, 01:28:09 PM
If you want you can go make a "Flat Earth Society" forum. They are their own forum, we don't have any say in how they run it.


So, there is no Official "Flat Earth Society" forum?
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Plat Terra on September 14, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
If you have a problem with Parsifal, take it up with him, on his forum. That is not our forum.

The forum in question is not a "Flat Earth Society" forum?

It's a different forum much like Coke and Pepsi are different but both are colas.

Another professional hack in for defense. 
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Stash on September 14, 2019, 02:25:39 PM
If you have a problem with Parsifal, take it up with him, on his forum. That is not our forum.

The forum in question is not a "Flat Earth Society" forum?

It's a different forum much like Coke and Pepsi are different but both are colas.

Another professional hack in for defense.

I'm not sure what you mean.

My limited understanding is that some folks here back around 2013 splintered off and created TFES.org for whatever reasons they had to want to do so. So now there are two separate forums both of which go by the name, "The Flat Earth Society". Each site/forum is run separately by separate people. Though lots of people post on both sites.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 14, 2019, 02:50:47 PM
If you want you can go make a "Flat Earth Society" forum. They are their own forum, we don't have any say in how they run it.


So, there is no Official "Flat Earth Society" forum?

This is the official Flat Earth Society forum. We can't stop anyone from making their own forum. I don't know what it is you're having trouble understanding. 
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: boydster on September 14, 2019, 04:31:31 PM
Sandokhan, as much as I'm sure you would like to be the Arbiter of Truth about the things you discuss, no one here is given that accolade. It's one of the strengths of this site. While I agree with you that JackBlack and rabinoz can be annoying, insulting, and actively attempt to derail threads, I disagree that either should be permabanned and I won't be supporting or recommending a resolution like that. There are other members I have also hoped would just go away because I think they add very little value to any interactions here. But silencing those voices isn't the answer. And arguing that rab is "spamming" his own thread (spamming is not the right word, when someone simply disagrees with your assessment of whether a point has been debunked or not, and this is something you should be sympathetic to given your post history) is pretty weak sauce.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: kopfverderber on September 14, 2019, 04:47:46 PM
I have disagree with Sandokhan on on this one. I think Rab is one of the best posters in this forum. I generally agree with most things Rab says, but his answers to Sandokhan's nonsense are particularly top notch. I honestly find Sandokhan's post much more spammy and repetitive,  I lost count of how many times I had to read that Hermann Weyl was the best mathematician of his time or that someone was doing Einstein's home work, when I read this I just skip to the next post.

However I think there's a lack of FE vs FE debate in this forum, maybe something could be done about that.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Space Cowgirl on September 14, 2019, 05:44:37 PM
Have you tried starting a debate?
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: sandokhan on September 14, 2019, 10:02:37 PM
Then, if you won't listen to what we have to say, it is time for us, the FE, to simply not post anymore on this forum. A FE strike if you will.

wise, platterra, danang, dutchy (even cikljamas) are you with me?

We have RE admin and mods: they simply don't care about our concerns.

If someone repeats the very same message all over again, several times, then that IS spamming.

But boydster and scg say that is no problem at all.

Then, let THEM debate rabinoz/jackblack, why should we bother anymore?

Practically they are telling us, letting us know, that we should pack up our things and go, it is more important to defend jackblack/rabinoz than to listen to us.

So, let us NOT POST ANYMORE MESSAGES, weeks/months if need be, forever if that is what it takes. Let rabinoz/jackblack have this forum all to themselves and see how the mods cope with them, since we are not needed here.

Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: boydster on September 14, 2019, 11:11:00 PM
I suspect rab and JB will have very little to say during that time. I'm not sure what it will prove though.
Title: Re: Question addressed to the admin/mods
Post by: Crouton on September 15, 2019, 01:35:37 AM
Great discussion everyone.  While I haven't completely read everything sandokhan has said I am a little high right now and  think I see a clear path forward.

Here are my suggestions to help get us back on track to continuing to be the greatest flat earth society in operation today.

1.  Aggressive moderation of the debate forum.  I'm talking marshall law.  We'll make it as barren as the Q&A section.

2.  Rab and JB are hereby compelled to lay waste to all manner of fonts and color codes.  The offense to good taste shall continue until morale improves.

3.  Sandy and plat tera are formally enlisted as my acolytes in the sacred order of Wynona Ryder.  Together we shall ride the stigma of shoplifting.

4.  This forum shall additionally adopt an anti family picture day agenda.  I had to do picture day today.  I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

5.  This forum shall identify itself as an anti pedophilia flat earth society in an effort to differentiate ourselves from our sister societies.

I'm going to lock this thread to give these measures time to bare fruit.

We'll see where we are in a month from now.