The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Shifter on August 22, 2019, 04:30:31 PM

Title: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 22, 2019, 04:30:31 PM
Gillette has paid the price in the order of around 8 billion dollars for their ridiculous going woke campaign. An ad which virtually painted the vast majority of their customers (men) as everything that's wrong with society. Toxic and evil for simply being men.

It appears they have relented and won't engage in this stupid go woke for broke nonsense again.

But how many examples do we see of this?

Ghostbusters reboot with an all female cast - broke.
Oceans 8 - broke
A Wrinkle in Time - got woke, went broke
Terminator reboot in the works - predicted to go broke for going woke
Men in Black International - broke
Xmen Dark Phoenix - broke

Mass Effect Andromeda - BROKE

Tumbler - got woke, went broke

Phase 4 of the MCU..... A female THOR? - I'm calling it early - broke

We've seen how cringe worthy Brie Larsen screwed with Captain Marvel and how much profit was lost to her antics and male bashing. A shitty actress too but Marvel wanted that 'feminist' movie, so - broke

Eminem, Katy Perry, Hillary Clinton - getting woke caused them to go broke. There are so many more examples I could write too.

Why do peopke still want to jump on this WOKE bandwagon?


Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 22, 2019, 04:58:33 PM
Well, I agree that wokeness is stupid, but some of the things you've listed as woke I don't even know what it is you are talking about.

Like, when did Hilary Clinton get woke, causing her to get broke? Also, Ghostbusters reboot wasn't any worse than the original, and it wasn't the wokeness that broke it, it was the man babies who thought the reboot ruined the first one (which isn't even possible).

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: markjo on August 22, 2019, 05:26:00 PM
We've seen how cringe worthy Brie Larsen screwed with Captain Marvel and how much profit was lost to her antics and male bashing. A shitty actress too but Marvel wanted that 'feminist' movie, so - broke
I would hardly call over $1 billion box office "broke".

Also, Dark Phoenix was hardly the only disappointment in the X-men franchise.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 22, 2019, 06:03:17 PM
Also, tumblr didn't ban porn out of wokeness. They banned porn because iTunes canceled the tumblr app because of child porn.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Crouton on August 22, 2019, 07:09:14 PM
I read somewhere that they did that because of fosta/sesta.

Not sure if that's true or not.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 22, 2019, 07:22:11 PM
It might be. I wouldn't be surprised if it was child sex trafficking, too. I have a tumblr, and before the porn ban I was getting followed by tons of pornbot blogs. Probably some of them were trafficking.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 22, 2019, 08:43:16 PM
Well, I agree that wokeness is stupid, but some of the things you've listed as woke I don't even know what it is you are talking about.

Like, when did Hilary Clinton get woke, causing her to get broke? Also, Ghostbusters reboot wasn't any worse than the original, and it wasn't the wokeness that broke it, it was the man babies who thought the reboot ruined the first one (which isn't even possible).

Hillary tried the gender card - vote because I'm not some old angry white male. She's bit broke in the $$$ sense but in her career and ambition, she is

I never watched the reboot of Ghost Busters. I don't care that there's women Ghost Busters, but the point of the movie was not to tell a story but to say 'F U' to men

Most people saw through that and given Ghost Busters had a mostly male fan base following (I guess because men like that kind of action movie) they didn't pay to see that. Chris Hemsworth, the guy that plays Thor, cast as a secretary - dumbing down the epitome of an Alpha male to such a role only proved this movie was simply made to be a joke

It's like trying to make a reboot of GI Joe but only casting women. Dumb idea. You already know it will flop
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 22, 2019, 09:16:17 PM
We've seen how cringe worthy Brie Larsen screwed with Captain Marvel and how much profit was lost to her antics and male bashing. A shitty actress too but Marvel wanted that 'feminist' movie, so - broke
I would hardly call over $1 billion box office "broke".

Also, Dark Phoenix was hardly the only disappointment in the X-men franchise.

The character of Captain Marvel is trashed. Do you see any hint of her back in phase 4? Are the fans screaming for more of her? Also there is no question her comments about white men led to a lot of dollars missed out on the box office. The movie was part of the MCU and connected to the Avengers 3&4 movie. That was the only reason it made what it did. If it were a stand alone movie, it would have crashed and burned
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Lorddave on August 22, 2019, 09:27:16 PM
Shifter be incel, yo.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 01:22:36 AM
I never watched the reboot of Ghost Busters. I don't care that there's women Ghost Busters, but the point of the movie was not to tell a story but to say 'F U' to men
You seem to know very well the point of a movie you didn't watch.

Quote
The character of Captain Marvel is trashed. Do you see any hint of her back in phase 4? Are the fans screaming for more of her?

Not so much, because she was a very boring character. The complaints about "wokeness" are silly, is it "woke" because it's a movie about a female superhero? So if a movie is all male it's not "political", it's normal, but if a movie stars a woman it's suddenly repugnant misandry.

What about Wonder Woman? I guess that classifies as "woke" too, since it stars a woman and is directed by a woman. And it made more than Justice League and almost as much as Batman v Superman despite the angry nerd meltdowns.

I also love how you classify various things as having gone broke when they didn't, but justify it by saying "well if not for x it would have gone broke" or "I'm sure it will go broke". Also Eminem got broke because he went woke? 1) When did he go "woke" and 2) do you seriously think that's why Eminem "went broke" (which is a weird thing to say for all the sales he makes)? Not because he's aging and his newer music is shit?

I'll never understand this ridiculous outrage over having women/minorities in movies.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 23, 2019, 02:06:45 AM

#Broflake's matter.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 03:00:04 AM

#Broflake's matter.


Female superheroes are not a new concept. They have been around for decades. Nobody thought to market the movie on its protagonist having a vagina until a few years ago though.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 03:13:41 AM

I'll never understand this ridiculous outrage over having women/minorities in movies.

See this is how the moron left tries to trigger people that don't like this woke shit.

We say " We don't like to have characters in movies and things a like roles chosen because of a PC quota."

The left "Y'all are racist, misogynistic, bigots and only want to see white males in entertainment"..


Fucking stupid.

Plus, anyone that doesn't see something wrong with the Gillette campaign must really have their head somewhere stinky. They literally called most mean evil lol. In doing so they did exactly what they were supposedly fighting against lol. Typical left.

Glad they lost alot of customers and had to cancel the campaign. I hope they don't come back, I certainly won't.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 03:21:05 AM
Free market. Make any movie you want.
Win or Lose on your own merit.

Seriously? Blaming entertainment for shit?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 03:28:39 AM
Free market. Make any movie you want.
Win or Lose on your own merit.

Seriously? Blaming entertainment for shit?

I am not blaming them for anything, simply an example.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 03:34:29 AM
. . . simply an example.

of what?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 03:45:37 AM
. . . simply an example.

of what?

They are an extension of what the left wants/believe (well not all left, but the ones with a voice) since Hollywood only panders to the left.

Example of their shit mentality and especially hypocrisy.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 03:56:08 AM
Toy Story?

But, what the hell do I know?
If I have to see a movie I pay attention to the foley, lighting and soundscape.   ;D
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 23, 2019, 04:17:40 AM

Well I consider myself to be “left” but have no interest in those that push ridiculous agender, and I haven’t seen the Gillette adverts, so I can’t comment on that specifically, however what I see above is a pair of frothing volk getting very upset about something that would probably die a natural death (for the reasons they stated), If it wasn’t kept alive by angry paranoid men thinking there was a plot by female supremacists (and the left) to make them both, crochet, and superfluous to reproduction , I suggest you watch a Chuck Norris film and then get your woman to make you a pack-up and go hunt a Mastodon. 
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 04:20:50 AM

Well I consider myself to be “left” but have no interest in those that push ridiculous agender, and I haven’t seen the Gillette adverts, so I can’t comment on that specifically, however what I see above is a pair of frothing volk getting very upset about something that would probably die a natural death (for the reasons they stated), If it wasn’t kept alive by angry paranoid men thinking there was a plot by female supremacists (and the left) to make them both, crochet, and superfluous to reproduction , I suggest you watch a Chuck Norris film and then get your woman to make you a pack-up and go hunt a Mastodon.

Yes, me commenting on a post is worked up? Me simply saying "I don't like things being changed simple for the lovely PC reasons"

Right

I am very close to not being able to care less.

As for your end part...why are you attempting to pull a left trigger? Ignoring completely what I or shifter has said and saying what you want when it is clearly what neither has said.

You are better than that jura
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 04:22:10 AM
Going woke = doing the same things that movies have always done, just not centred around white guys.

Sure, there are 'woke' things that can be lacklustre, but that's not exactly a new thing in movies. Then you get some that are excellent, from Black Panther to Wonder Woman. Deciding the biggest factor in the success of a movie is how many non-white non-male leads there are is where you get stupid. Not really sure what Bom's talking about, like that's some kind of misrepresentation of what's actually being said.
Not every depiction of non-white non-male characters is just filling a quota. Sometimes it's just, y'know, the fact non-white people and women exist and should be just as likely to be at the forefront of a story. After decades of near-exclusively white guys headlining everything you can't even manage a handful of others.

As far as 'filling a quota' goes, that goes hand-in-hand with 'virtue signalling' as a hilarious idea to me. There's already a word for that. There's been a word for 'trying to manipulate a marginilised group into being fans' for years now, it's called tokenism. Chucking in representation with no real forethought just to try and claim 'wokeness.' The left calls that out plenty, but acknowledging that would go against the Evil Leftist narrative you want to push.
Yep, tokenism can be a problem, and there are definitely a few things out there that opt for rather forced scenes in the name of it, but a) the left hardly celebrates that when it happens, b) that doesn't define every single instance of daring to have other groups presented on screen.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 04:38:16 AM

 There's been a word for 'trying to manipulate a marginilised group into being fans' for years now, it's called tokenism. Chucking in representation with no real forethought just to try and claim 'wokeness.' The left calls that out plenty, but acknowledging that would go against the Evil Leftist narrative you want to push.
Yep, tokenism can be a problem, and there are definitely a few things out there that opt for rather forced scenes in the name of it, but a) the left hardly celebrates that when it happens, b) that doesn't define every single instance of daring to have other groups presented on screen.

You want real actual business people with responsibilities to their investors to make movies that appeal to a narrow group of activists who don't actually go to movies?

Spend your own fortune to make your own stupid all inclusive kumbaya movie.

It is easy to stand off and bitch about how you feel things should be.


Seriously, there are people who do things and people who bitch and moan.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 04:43:05 AM

 There's been a word for 'trying to manipulate a marginilised group into being fans' for years now, it's called tokenism. Chucking in representation with no real forethought just to try and claim 'wokeness.' The left calls that out plenty, but acknowledging that would go against the Evil Leftist narrative you want to push.
Yep, tokenism can be a problem, and there are definitely a few things out there that opt for rather forced scenes in the name of it, but a) the left hardly celebrates that when it happens, b) that doesn't define every single instance of daring to have other groups presented on screen.

You want real actual business people with responsibilities to their investors to make movies that appeal to a narrow group of activists who don't actually go to movies?
Um. How did you get that from my post?

Personally I'd like a variety of movies, some of which appealing more to more than the typical white male demographic.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 04:45:17 AM
Going woke = doing the same things that movies have always done, just not centred around white guys.

Sure, there are 'woke' things that can be lacklustre, but that's not exactly a new thing in movies. Then you get some that are excellent, from Black Panther to Wonder Woman. Deciding the biggest factor in the success of a movie is how many non-white non-male leads there are is where you get stupid. Not really sure what Bom's talking about, like that's some kind of misrepresentation of what's actually being said.
Not every depiction of non-white non-male characters is just filling a quota. Sometimes it's just, y'know, the fact non-white people and women exist and should be just as likely to be at the forefront of a story. After decades of near-exclusively white guys headlining everything you can't even manage a handful of others.

As far as 'filling a quota' goes, that goes hand-in-hand with 'virtue signalling' as a hilarious idea to me. There's already a word for that. There's been a word for 'trying to manipulate a marginilised group into being fans' for years now, it's called tokenism. Chucking in representation with no real forethought just to try and claim 'wokeness.' The left calls that out plenty, but acknowledging that would go against the Evil Leftist narrative you want to push.
Yep, tokenism can be a problem, and there are definitely a few things out there that opt for rather forced scenes in the name of it, but a) the left hardly celebrates that when it happens, b) that doesn't define every single instance of daring to have other groups presented on screen.

Black panther or Wonder woman are terrible examples. Both terrific movies.

The thing though, there was nothing "woke" about them. The characters had great story lines, and there was nothing "PC forced" about it.

The new ghost busters would be a better example, or wanting to make thor a woman. Captain marvel, I just can't bring an opinion on. There were certainly PC quota vibes in it, but other than that not sure. Plus, they originally wanted Keanu Reeves (so broken hearted that didn't happen), but he chose to do John wick 3 over the marvel stuff sadly.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 23, 2019, 04:48:34 AM

Well I consider myself to be “left” but have no interest in those that push ridiculous agender, and I haven’t seen the Gillette adverts, so I can’t comment on that specifically, however what I see above is a pair of frothing volk getting very upset about something that would probably die a natural death (for the reasons they stated), If it wasn’t kept alive by angry paranoid men thinking there was a plot by female supremacists (and the left) to make them both, crochet, and superfluous to reproduction , I suggest you watch a Chuck Norris film and then get your woman to make you a pack-up and go hunt a Mastodon.

Yes, me commenting on a post is worked up? Me simply saying "I don't like things being changed simple for the lovely PC reasons"

Right

I am very close to not being able to care less.

As for your end part...why are you attempting to pull a left trigger? Ignoring completely what I or shifter has said and saying what you want when it is clearly what neither has said.

You are better than that jura


Because, it needs you and the Shifters of this world in counter point to the agendist’s (not a word, I know), to make this a story, someone makes a bad call on redressing what is seen by most as an unbalanced preponderance of white guys getting all the parts, and you have a jeering crowd form shouting “take that you PC man haters”, I don’t get it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 04:56:41 AM
Black panther or Wonder woman are terrible examples. Both terrific movies.

The thing though, there was nothing "woke" about them. The characters had great story lines, and there was nothing "PC forced" about it.
So your definition of 'woke' then is 'movie with non-white or non-male in, that I don't like.'
BP and WW are the movies that would be celebrated as 'woke' by the left, hell, they are celebrated as such. Those are the kinds of movies the left wants more of. Claiming they're not is somehow the most baffling thing in this whole thread.

Thor's not being 'made a woman,' they're just actually doing something new with Jane's character, and something that's established in the comics. If the movie ends up being good, you'll just end up saying that it ended up not being 'PC forced' after all, that's just how this is going.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 04:56:53 AM

Because, it needs you and the Shifters of this world in counter point to the agendist’s (not a word, I know), to make this a story, someone makes a bad call on redressing what is seen by most as an unbalanced preponderance of white guys getting all the parts, and you have a jeering crowd form shouting “take that you PC man haters”, I don’t get it.

Normally I would give someone shit on a post like this, however, you are usually pretty intelligent/reasonable, so I am just going to assume a misunderstanding.

Let me try and clear it up.

Example from a post above talking to Jane. I rejected her example of black panther/wonder woman movies being "woke", because in my eyes they were not.

I thought both were fantastic movies, great plots, great directing, acting and story lines for the characters. There was nothing forced or PC about them, they told a story and did it well.

So again, what I disagree with is when people make casting decisions or stories based on PC culture and quotas. It makes me cringe, and obviously I am not alone. It has nothing to do with what color or sex is on the screen, I literally could not care less.


I would have called black panther racist if it featured an all white cast. I would have been like wtf what KKK member made this movie. It goes against the comics and about all things the black panther character stood for.

So I repeat, you are 100 percent incorrect with your opinion
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 04:58:48 AM
Black panther or Wonder woman are terrible examples. Both terrific movies.

The thing though, there was nothing "woke" about them. The characters had great story lines, and there was nothing "PC forced" about it.
So your definition of 'woke' then is 'movie with non-white or non-male in, that I don't like.'
BP and WW are the movies that would be celebrated as 'woke' by the left, hell, they are celebrated as such. Those are the kinds of movies the left wants more of. Claiming they're not is somehow the most baffling thing in this whole thread.

Thor's not being 'made a woman,' they're just actually doing something new with Jane's character, and something that's established in the comics. If the movie ends up being good, you'll just end up saying that it ended up not being 'PC forced' after all, that's just how this is going.

You need to read my post to Jura
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 05:17:33 AM

agendist’s (not a word, I know)

If it conveys meaning, it's a word. All words are made up.   ;)
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 05:26:29 AM
So again, what I disagree with is when people make casting decisions or stories based on PC culture and quotas.
Which means?

Honestly just sounds like you want to blame everything on the good old 'political correctness gone mad' when your actual objection is with token representation, and that's the optimistic reading. Sure, tokenism bugs me too, you can get a couple of scenes that make you cringe, but eh, that hardly ruins movies for me.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 05:40:57 AM

Because, it needs you and the Shifters of this world in counter point to the agendist’s (not a word, I know), to make this a story, someone makes a bad call on redressing what is seen by most as an unbalanced preponderance of white guys getting all the parts, and you have a jeering crowd form shouting “take that you PC man haters”, I don’t get it.

Normally I would give someone shit on a post like this, however, you are usually pretty intelligent/reasonable, so I am just going to assume a misunderstanding.

Let me try and clear it up.

Example from a post above talking to Jane. I rejected her example of black panther/wonder woman movies being "woke", because in my eyes they were not.

I thought both were fantastic movies, great plots, great directing, acting and story lines for the characters. There was nothing forced or PC about them, they told a story and did it well.

So again, what I disagree with is when people make casting decisions or stories based on PC culture and quotas. It makes me cringe, and obviously I am not alone. It has nothing to do with what color or sex is on the screen, I literally could not care less.


I would have called black panther racist if it featured an all white cast. I would have been like wtf what KKK member made this movie. It goes against the comics and about all things the black panther character stood for.

So I repeat, you are 100 percent incorrect with your opinion

Agree. Black Panther was awesome. The characters fit the story and it's an original movie (ie not a reboot)

Wonder Woman was also awesome. Great actress and story and didn't pretend it was the first to do so.

Captain Marvel had a shitty actress who kept running her mouth off at white men during its promotion.

I actually hate when Hollywood white washes movies myself. Examples are shows like Noah or Exodus when they get white Anglo Saxon people to play Middle Easterners and Middle Easterners to play supporting roles. Shit

By the same token I don't think much of brown washing a character either. A good example is the upcoming 'The Little Mermaid'. Ariel is a white redhead. Now we get a brown lady for wokeness. So yeah, I'm sure the looney left will call me an incel but I think brown washing a character is as jarring as white washing.

I think we can agree if your motivation is wokefulness it is not good for business. In the context of movies, simply create and make a good story and let it sell itself
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 05:46:24 AM
So again, what I disagree with is when people make casting decisions or stories based on PC culture and quotas.
Which means?

Honestly just sounds like you want to blame everything on the good old 'political correctness gone mad' when your actual objection is with token representation, and that's the optimistic reading. Sure, tokenism bugs me too, you can get a couple of scenes that make you cringe, but eh, that hardly ruins movies for me.

This token representation is powered by PC culture, it's just a byproduct.

Again, forcing it is my issue

You won't listen to a word I say though, your mind is already made up truth be damned. So here, just for you, pez and a few others.

You are right, I hate everyone excluding white straight Christian men. Women should stay in the kitchen and be used for breeding only. I actually hated black panther for obvious reasons and wonder woman was terrible and completely inaccurate. She spoke out of turn and didn't cook once.

Is everyone happy now? So ridiculous
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 05:54:21 AM
If you don't want to watch a move, don't buy a ticket.



Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 05:58:44 AM
People certainly told Gillette what they thought using their wallets. Hopefully other companies will take notice of the incredibly costly mistake

Gillette would have done far better spending the $8 billion dollars on some developing country or even use it to fix social issues in America such as homelessness, aged care rather than interject themselves with some dumb male bashing campaign

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 06:06:08 AM

Gillette would have done far better spending the $8 billion dollars

$8 billion?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Lorddave on August 23, 2019, 06:11:01 AM
Wow.  Soooo... Couple of things.

1. Men are dicks often.  Seriously, there is a reason why women couldn't vote until 1914.  Why every single war has been started by a man.  Testosterone causes aggression.  This is a fact of biology. 


2. When you have forced female PC, its not forced, its unfamiliar.  Remember that scene in Captain Marvel with the biker?  That shit happens.  Hell, men hit on Lesbians, even after being told they are lesbians, with "You just haven't met a real man.".  That being said, there is bad execution.  Like "I'm a woman so I won't let you oppress me because I'm just as good as you." As an actual line is bad and unnatural.  But ya know what?  My wife cheered Captain Marvel and its "Forced PC" so.... Maybe ya aren't the target audience? 

3. The ghostbusters remake sucked because they were all trying to be funny and just ended up being too jokey.  Like all of them trying to be Peter instead of their respective role.

4. Thor being taken over by Jane Foster happened in 2014, issue Thor #1.  Well, a "what if..." Was made with her finding the hammer first in 1978 but its a what if so not canon.  In the storyline she kicks ass and sacrifices her life to save Asgard.
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/7/22/20706119/female-thor-love-thunder-portman-marvel-comics-movies-thor-4



Quote
Ariel is a white redhead
Why?
Because Walt Disney made it so?  Let them reimage the character.  Its their character to reimage.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 06:21:29 AM
Wow.  Soooo... Couple of things.

1. Men are dicks often.  Seriously, there is a reason why women couldn't vote until 1914.  Why every single war has been started by a man.  Testosterone causes aggression.  This is a fact of biology. 


2. When you have forced female PC, its not forced, its unfamiliar.  Remember that scene in Captain Marvel with the biker?  That shit happens.  Hell, men hit on Lesbians, even after being told they are lesbians, with "You just haven't met a real man.".  That being said, there is bad execution.  Like "I'm a woman so I won't let you oppress me because I'm just as good as you." As an actual line is bad and unnatural.  But ya know what?  My wife cheered Captain Marvel and its "Forced PC" so.... Maybe ya aren't the target audience? 

3. The ghostbusters remake sucked because they were all trying to be funny and just ended up being too jokey.  Like all of them trying to be Peter instead of their respective role.

4. Thor being taken over by Jane Foster happened in 2014, issue Thor #1.  Well, a "what if..." Was made with her finding the hammer first in 1978 but its a what if so not canon.  In the storyline she kicks ass and sacrifices her life to save Asgard.
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/7/22/20706119/female-thor-love-thunder-portman-marvel-comics-movies-thor-4


I have no issue with a hammer welding chick. Why call her 'Thor' though?

Quote

Quote
Ariel is a white redhead
Why?
Because Walt Disney made it so?  Let them reimage the character.  Its their character to reimage.

No it's not. The story is based on Hans Christen Andersons story who is Scandinavian.

Also if getting technical, a mermaid (if similar with human biology at all) should have white skin to better absorb sunshine to produce vitamin D :p
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 06:23:13 AM
1. Men are dicks often.  Seriously, there is a reason why women couldn't vote until 1914.  Why every single war has been started by a man.  Testosterone causes aggression.  This is a fact of biology. 

Lol, always man hating Dave. It's a human condition, not just men.

Men do horrible things, so do women. Hell there are entire series on television documenting evil women. It's humans in general. I guarantee it would be 50/50 men women looking at evil people.

Also, if you think every war was started by men, you are very very uneducated in history. Women just tend to pull the strings in the shadows more than men.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 06:32:47 AM

1. Men are dicks often.

Just often?   ;D



2. Remember that scene in Captain Marvel with the biker?

Remember that dream I had last week?



3. The ghostbusters remake sucked because they were all trying to be funny and just ended up being too jokey.  Like all of them trying to be Peter instead of their respective role.

The movie was just a product designed to make money.



4. Thor being taken over by Jane Foster happened in 2014, issue Thor #1.

I have absolutely no idea what a Thore or a Jane Foster may or may not be.
Do they influence your reality?


Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 06:43:02 AM
This token representation is powered by PC culture, it's just a byproduct.

Again, forcing it is my issue
By 'powered by,' you mean 'called out by.'

You think that's what the left wants? Hollywood takes any opportunity to make a buck, no one's under any illusions about that. Am I happier they'd prefer the 'inspire this demographic' train as opposed to the 'throw them under the bus, Birth of a Nation reboot mofos!' one? Sure, no question, and if it's done right it manages to go into new areas rather than making the same dumb formula again. But the flaw isn't with 'PC culture,' it's Hollywood looking for a cash grab. Don't blame the people they're exploiting for being exploited.

I have no issue with a hammer welding chick. Why call her 'Thor' though?
Because superheroes. Why is that other dude called Shazam when he can't even say his own superhero name without losing his powers? (Well, because Marvel trademarked the rights to the name Captain Marvel, but you know what I mean).
Or if you want to be technical, 'whosoever wields this hammer shall get the power of Thor.'
Like, you're not losing anything here. Chris Hemsworth Thor is still around, as are the other two Chris movies, the original Little Mermaid still exists, the original Ghostbusters still exist, if you want a Dark Phoenix movie with apparently less 'PC culture' you've got Last Stand and you're welcome to it. The number of white guy movies is staggering and they're not going away. Why does it bother you that other movies exist?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 07:47:27 AM
None of these casting decisions are "politically correct". Political correctness is a form of censorship in order to avoid insulting, or hurting the feelings of, "marginalized" people. Sometimes pc gets mixed up with regular old politeness and manners, and sometimes it is real.

I am not bothered by the movie studios playing around with casting. They may be pandering to the woke, but they are not woke themselves. They just want to make money.

The real test of wokeness equals brokeness is Teen Vogue. Has coming out as the wokest magazine hurt their subscriptions and clicks? (they are online only now) Is Conde Nast making money from Teen Vogue teaching teen girls (excuse me, uterus havers) how to take it up the ass?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 07:55:36 AM
Why does it bother you that other movies exist?

It doesn't actually. Care factor zero, just pointing out facts. I simply don't see them. I'm simply flabbergasted why people invest and produce movies we never needed or asked for anyway. The new Ghost Busters, Oceans 8 and the upcoming Charlies Angel's among them

Gillette rubbed people off the wrong way and with good reason.

Mass Effect Andromeda was a bother because I waited nearly 5 years for that. And it going woke broke not only the game but the entire mass effect franchise!
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Jura-Glenlivet II on August 23, 2019, 08:05:38 AM


You are right, I hate everyone excluding white straight Christian men. Women should stay in the kitchen and be used for breeding only. I actually hated black panther for obvious reasons and wonder woman was terrible and completely inaccurate. She spoke out of turn and didn't cook once.

Is everyone happy now? So ridiculous


So I looked up the Gillette add, and while it seemed to me to be over egging the macho man as I remember, kids fighting would have gotten a foot up the arse and told to pack it in, never looked on with pride, and it was a spectacular shot in the foot as a promotion apparently, it did have some relevant points about domination and maintenance of privilege, and I didn’t hear them “literally call most men evil”, and here is where we differ.
Conservatives by nature abhor change and generally rail against it, much of my extended family is of this ilk, “PC gone mad” when they introduce seat belts, and so on. The Lefties like me are more open to change (in my experience), thinking we can be better, rather than looking for safety in tradition.

The add I saw, could, if it had not been taken over by the urge to list every possible male fault, by putting a question mark on the tag-line, “The best a man can get”, been a really good advert, it failed because it was.


We can as humans be better than we are, if not then it’s all fucked, if my comments seemed scathing, it was a reaction to the underlying contempt that underscored the point you were making, which I partly agreed with, born from hearing this brand of conservatism through much of my life and knowing where the currents led. If I had that wrong, then my apologies.   
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 08:12:29 AM
I think it is hilarious that Gillette charges girls more than men for the same product.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 08:21:39 AM
The pink tax. Many of us avoid the girly colored shavers and just go with the manly green or orange ones. They're identical in everything but color.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 08:28:35 AM
If there's a reason to be pissed off it's this.
Not their stupid ad.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 08:32:34 AM
The pink tax. Many of us avoid the girly colored shavers and just go with the manly green or orange ones. They're identical in everything but color.

It's quite amusing a company that tried to promote itself as progressive is still so much a corporate greedy bastard in this respect.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 08:35:58 AM
A tampon company 'Libra' going NEXT LEVEL WOKE!

https://www.10daily.com.au/amp/news/australia/a190821kfzxu/libra-ad-to-show-period-blood-on-television-in-an-australian-first-20190822

Showing 'real period blood' on TV to show everyone its normal. PS Web link is gross. Don't click if you don't want to see

Lets see real semen in condoms next and real shit on toilet paper. It's normal.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 08:37:21 AM
Another instance of wokeness not equaling brokeness - the tech "giants". Google, Facebook, Twitter etc, all promote woke ideology. They censor people who do not. Google Play will suspend apps if they're to be used on sites that contain content they don't approve of. You may be thinking it's just the Nazis they disapprove of, but no, feminists too.  Automattic (just bought tumblr) shut down feminist wordpress blogs that dared to talk about Jonathan (#waxmyballs) Yaniv. Twitter bans people, on the left or right, who dare to have an opinion outside woke approved rhetoric.

None of these companies or industries are actually woke, as in aware of social justice issues and fighting to make things better. It's all cynical capitalism, which okay, we are a capitalist society, but it irritates me that people buy into it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 10:36:01 AM
Another instance of wokeness not equaling brokeness - the tech "giants". Google, Facebook, Twitter etc, all promote woke ideology. They censor people who do not. Google Play will suspend apps if they're to be used on sites that contain content they don't approve of. You may be thinking it's just the Nazis they disapprove of, but no, feminists too.  Automattic (just bought tumblr) shut down feminist wordpress blogs that dared to talk about Jonathan (#waxmyballs) Yaniv. Twitter bans people, on the left or right, who dare to have an opinion outside woke approved rhetoric.

None of these companies or industries are actually woke, as in aware of social justice issues and fighting to make things better. It's all cynical capitalism, which okay, we are a capitalist society, but it irritates me that people buy into it.

When you say banning feminist I assume you mean the ones that don't agree with the third wave bullshit such as yourself.

Also the stuff you are talking about with teen Vogue, I hope that is an exaggeration, that my gut says it isn't.


So I looked up the Gillette add, and while it seemed to me to be over egging the macho man as I remember, kids fighting would have gotten a foot up the arse and told to pack it in, never looked on with pride, and it was a spectacular shot in the foot as a promotion apparently, it did have some relevant points about domination and maintenance of privilege, and I didn’t hear them “literally call most men evil”, and here is where we differ.
Conservatives by nature abhor change and generally rail against it, much of my extended family is of this ilk, “PC gone mad” when they introduce seat belts, and so on. The Lefties like me are more open to change (in my experience), thinking we can be better, rather than looking for safety in tradition.

The add I saw, could, if it had not been taken over by the urge to list every possible male fault, by putting a question mark on the tag-line, “The best a man can get”, been a really good advert, it failed because it was.


We can as humans be better than we are, if not then it’s all fucked, if my comments seemed scathing, it was a reaction to the underlying contempt that underscored the point you were making, which I partly agreed with, born from hearing this brand of conservatism through much of my life and knowing where the currents led. If I had that wrong, then my apologies.   


I absolutely agree with attempting to approve ones self and society. I certainly try myself, and I am open in changing if it's for the better. I view it more how I run my business.

I have zero ego whatsoever, if it's better I will do it as long as it's moral. Even if my clean up crew tells me an idea, I would never dismiss it out of ego just because they are the clean up clue. I listen and consider everything in business and my personal life.

If I think it's unhealthy or not moral I will fight it with every ounce of my soul.

I am also aware of traits that truly are "toxic masculinity" and do my best to avoid them.

However, that Gillette campaign was complete bullshit and spit on men as a whole. To hell with them, will never use their product again
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 11:08:31 AM
But the flaw isn't with 'PC culture,' it's Hollywood looking for a cash grab. Don't blame the people they're exploiting for being exploited.

I can't disagree with you here. It's all about the money for sure. I would put a silver dollar on the fact 90 percent of people higher up in Hollywood could give two shits about equality, minorities or women. They are probably quit abysmal human beings.

I guess what I more meant is Hollywood is still reflecting the will of the left, at least the further left, which is the only ones with a voice currently. So we still have to see it, even though Hollywood isn't doing it because they believe in it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 11:30:34 AM
I guess what I more meant is Hollywood is still reflecting the will of the left, at least the further left, which is the only ones with a voice currently. So we still have to see it, even though Hollywood isn't doing it because they believe in it.
Centre-left, easily. Wait until they give Wonder Woman a girlfriend and bring Nia Nal to the big screen before you start complaining about the far left, and even then there'll be a ways to go. Though at least you can join in with SCG then. Depicting groups other than white men with a few hamfisted quips is the bare minumum, it really isn't a big deal to anyone except thin-skinned folks on the right.

The worst of the worst here is pretty much just the equivalent of Oscar bait, creating something for the express purpose of manipulating the audience, and those hardly get the level of vitriol that got directed at Ghostbusters, Captain Marvel... It's beyond ridiculous. Making it about the representation even more so. The problem is and will always be executive meddling, rushed writing and poor directing meaning the end result was surface-level manipulation rather than an engaging story. I mean, the examples listed in Shifter's OP were hardly that bad (at least the ones I've seen), but as far as what the 'further left' wants goes, they want Black Panther, they want Wonder Woman, they're the ones that get praised and talked about endlessly. They don't want things like Disney's throw-away gay character in Beauty and the Beast added purely to get headlines. But even then, the worst case scenarios tend to just have a few hamfisted scenes and are hardly worse than your run-of-the-mill average movie.
Don't blame the eeeevvill sjws for everything.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 11:33:19 AM
It doesn't actually. Care factor zero, just pointing out facts. I simply don't see them.
Sure...

Quote
I'm simply flabbergasted why people invest and produce movies we never needed or asked for anyway. The new Ghost Busters, Oceans 8 and the upcoming Charlies Angel's among them
It's more stupid that they make movies people asked for, making movies people ask for is how you end up with billions of dumb sequels and reboots.

Quote
Gillette rubbed people off the wrong way and with good reason.
Because the people calling others snowflakes are actually extremely fragile?

Quote
Mass Effect Andromeda was a bother because I waited nearly 5 years for that. And it going woke broke not only the game but the entire mass effect franchise!
What did they do, add a female character?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 11:55:37 AM

Don't blame the eeeevvill sjws for everything.

Hey, I blamed the greedy executives too! They just pander to the far left nonsense. Just don't put a black woman in a part that calls for a white male. Or an Asian man in a part for a white woman, etc etc...just leave the quotas. Don't pander the script for the left either... I am fine. Though really I am fine either way, I could give two shits about the entertainment industry. Also really in the grand scheme of things, all the problems the industry has, this is very small.


I will say though, the left almost made me miss a fantastic movie (black panther) as I avoided it from all the usual far left groups going on about it (and trying to take credit for it). I only watched it after infinity war because I liked wakanda and the actors/actresses, glad I did obviously.

Though I saw nothing really far left in it, I don't know what the fuss was about. Neither did I with wonder woman. Probably just the far left trying to stir shit as usual.

I haven't seen captain Marvel, but I didn't have any issue with her in endgame. However, I know the lead actress in real life is a big time man hater.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 11:58:14 AM
No one asked for all those Adam Sandler movies, but we got them anyway.

And Slime, I do not have a problem with trans characters on the TV or in movies, or with Wonder Woman having a girlfriend, so I don't know what you are referring to. I have a problem with censorship. I have a problem with women being banned for the truth.

Edit, I literally used tags for Slemon, but typed lime. wtf
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
No one asked for all those Adam Sandler movies, but we got them anyway.


I can't even argue with this. All of his crap movies at least lead to the few classics, so maybe the pain was worth the reward.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 12:07:53 PM
What I'm saying here, is that certain people (the Shitlers of the world) freak out about bad movies if they're seen as feminist, or woke, or whatever, but there are all kinds of shit movies. A movie being made right now will be shit. A movie being made right now could be the shittiest movie ever made. They'll keep on making them as long as people are paying to see them. One of those movies being made could end up being great. You never know.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 23, 2019, 12:11:17 PM
What I'm saying here, is that certain people (the Shitlers of the world) freak out about bad movies if they're seen as feminist, or woke, or whatever, but there are all kinds of shit movies. A movie being made right now will be shit. A movie being made right now could be the shittiest movie ever made. They'll keep on making them as long as people are paying to see them. One of those movies being made could end up being great. You never know.

I don't disagree, as Jane said and I agreed, it's all just money.

I think it's the fact the left uses certain movies as a weapon which makes them more than a bad movie (or sometimes a good movie) Just as my example with black panther
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 12:16:24 PM
Lots of people praised Black Panther, but I don't know how they made it into a weapon.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 01:02:14 PM
Though I saw nothing really far left in it, I don't know what the fuss was about. Neither did I with wonder woman.
Because it's representation. That is literally all the 'far left' is clamouring for. That's all the fuss is about, it's a big deal for those that don't normally get that, being able to see someone like you as a main character rather than ostensibly not existing as far as wider culture goes. That apparently qualifies as 'far left' to you and it's baffling. No one wants 'Suppress the white man! Castrations on reality TV!' They just want to exist.
Also your definition of 'man hater' is dumb.

I have a problem with censorship. I have a problem with women being banned for the truth.
Issue tends to be what you consider 'truth'  :P
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 02:02:45 PM
Far left is when there are lots of women in a movie, but they're ugly.

Moderate left is when there are lots of women in the movie but they're not ugly.

Apolitical is when the leading roles are all male.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 02:13:54 PM
I just thought of one of my favorite WOKEST movies, and that is Mad Max: Fury Road. I would watch it again in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 02:18:21 PM
I have a problem with censorship. I have a problem with women being banned for the truth.
Issue tends to be what you consider 'truth'  :P

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 23, 2019, 02:20:58 PM
I just thought of one of my favorite WOKEST movies, and that is Mad Max: Fury Road. I would watch it again in a heartbeat.

Mad Mx: Fury Road was woke?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 02:30:48 PM
I just thought of one of my favorite WOKEST movies, and that is Mad Max: Fury Road. I would watch it again in a heartbeat.

Awesome movie. Got it in 4K. What made it WOKE though? The lead actress is popular and hot. She'd have to be ugly, androgenous and a little bit brown to have it woke. In fact... How many coloured people were in it??

Think of the lead for the upcoming rebooted sequel for Terminator 2. Woke as f#&k
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 02:34:18 PM
It was all about female empowerment, you nerds.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 02:35:21 PM
It doesn't actually. Care factor zero, just pointing out facts. I simply don't see them.
Sure...

Quote
I'm simply flabbergasted why people invest and produce movies we never needed or asked for anyway. The new Ghost Busters, Oceans 8 and the upcoming Charlies Angel's among them
It's more stupid that they make movies people asked for, making movies people ask for is how you end up with billions of dumb sequels and reboots.

Quote
Gillette rubbed people off the wrong way and with good reason.
Because the people calling others snowflakes are actually extremely fragile?

Quote
Mass Effect Andromeda was a bother because I waited nearly 5 years for that. And it going woke broke not only the game but the entire mass effect franchise!
What did they do, add a female character?

Clearly you know nothing about Mass Effect. You could always play as a female protagonist. People loved it. You could even make her black if you desired. Again, people loved it. That's not what broke it

Your dumb. Come back when you actually educate yourself on matters you argue about..
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 02:39:14 PM


I just watched the trailer, what is woke about it? Is it because the new terminator is female?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 02:51:06 PM
No one had an issue with Terminator 3... Well they did but not because of the female terminator
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Crouton on August 23, 2019, 02:52:39 PM
I just thought of one of my favorite WOKEST movies, and that is Mad Max: Fury Road. I would watch it again in a heartbeat.

Mad Mx: Fury Road was woke?

Fury road was hella woke.  It tends to not get brought up because the movie was also amazing.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2019, 02:54:30 PM
No one had an issue with Terminator 3... Well they did but not because of the female terminator

Well, tell me why it is woke then. I haven't watched Terminator in so many years I can't even remember most of it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 03:02:10 PM
Clearly you know nothing about Mass Effect. You could always play as a female protagonist. People loved it. You could even make her black if you desired. Again, people loved it. That's not what broke it

Your dumb. Come back when you actually educate yourself on matters you argue about..
I'll admit, Mass Effect isn't a franchise I've gotten into, but are you seriously trying to pin it on being 'woke?' From all I've heard, ME:A failed because of a slew of technical issues and a lacklustre plot, none of which have anything to do with, well, anything. Plus one thing I am familiar with when it comes to ME is BioWare, and the fact it was bought by EA who've made a habit of buying up decent developers and then running them into the ground, which... yeah, I think you'll find that's what's happening.
Checking out BioWare releases:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BioWare_video_games
Starting 2007, where EA took over, you have a promising start. Dragon Age Origins, early Mass Effect... for a few years. There was a little bit of controversy about DA's DLC but nothing major yet. Mass Effect 2 in 2010, then Dragon Age 2 which was hit by a huge swathe of dislike for rushed development and reused maps and poorly paced story (and hilariously glitchy final stretch, speaking from experience), but hey, it's just one game. Then you hit 2012, ME3 comes out, got hit with some criticism for the lacking finale and had developers scrabbling to react.
Then two games that were cancelled in development, then the smash hit success of Dragon Age Inquisition, which itself does double duty to point out the issues with your arguments. On one hand, two gay party members and one trans supporting character makes it pretty 'woke' in my book, as clunky as the dialogue sometimes was, but on the other there's no getting around the fact the latter half of the game felt pretty rushed. And all of that required having developers work themselves to exhaustion to the point that some even wanted the game to fail just so they'd be free of the damn thing, all of which was pretty well documented. Then you have one more cancelled game, and then that's when you reach 2017 and Mass Effect: Andromeda! With a burnt out studio, some developers off after nervous breakdowns, after a string of cancelled releases and only one real success in the last five years, with the notoriously greedy EA breathing down their necks. And the next release was Anthem which, sure, not my thing so I haven't played it, but I know most people seem to hate it.
But, sure, it was the sjws that ruined ME:A.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 03:19:47 PM
Sigh.

Mass Effect 1 was awesome. I don't know anyone who hated Mass Effect 2. It doubled down on the awesomeness. Mass Effect 3 was also great right up until the last 15 minutes of game play. Some people took issues with a gay character - I didn't give a damn. Cortez was cool.

It's not just the game content in Andromeda which sucked. It had the making of a great story. It's also the development behind the game. Google Manveer Heir for starters. Ask yourself if his behaviour was acceptable. Remember, he's the behind the scenes face of a game which had a budget of around $40? Million dollars.

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 03:37:19 PM
Sigh.

Mass Effect 1 was awesome. I don't know anyone who hated Mass Effect 2. It doubled down on the awesomeness. Mass Effect 3 was also great right up until the last 15 minutes of game play. Some people took issues with a gay character - I didn't give a damn. Cortez was cool.

It's not just the game content in Andromeda which sucked. It had the making of a great story. It's also the development behind the game. Google Manveer Heir for starters. Ask yourself if his behaviour was acceptable. Remember, he's the behind the scenes face of a game which had a budget of around $40? Million dollars.
So... you don't object to any of the things that are actually considered 'woke,' but you still want to insist that's the problem and pin the problems with a studio being worked to exhaustion on a guy that said a few mean (true, but mean) things about white people?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 03:42:57 PM
Clearly you know nothing about Mass Effect. You could always play as a female protagonist. People loved it. You could even make her black if you desired.
Even black? Woah that's bordering in some extremist shit.

Quote
That's not what broke it
What was it then? Don't tell me it was an LGBT character!

Quote
Your dumb.
What about my dumb?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 03:44:17 PM
I just thought of one of my favorite WOKEST movies, and that is Mad Max: Fury Road. I would watch it again in a heartbeat.

Mad Mx: Fury Road was woke?

Fury road was hella woke.  It tends to not get brought up because the movie was also amazing.
There were people back then complaing as usual but they got drowned out because lots of people liked the movie, and because the nerds usually complaining were distracted by booms and vrooms so they didn't notice.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 03:59:22 PM
Sigh.

Mass Effect 1 was awesome. I don't know anyone who hated Mass Effect 2. It doubled down on the awesomeness. Mass Effect 3 was also great right up until the last 15 minutes of game play. Some people took issues with a gay character - I didn't give a damn. Cortez was cool.

It's not just the game content in Andromeda which sucked. It had the making of a great story. It's also the development behind the game. Google Manveer Heir for starters. Ask yourself if his behaviour was acceptable. Remember, he's the behind the scenes face of a game which had a budget of around $40? Million dollars.
So... you don't object to any of the things that are actually considered 'woke,' but you still want to insist that's the problem and pin the problems with a studio being worked to exhaustion on a guy that said a few mean (true, but mean) things about white people?

He's a racist dick and his comments were not only untrue for the most part (our current generation and Espoo ecially the millenials who would be the biggest customers) but generalising is always stupid. For all his talk about racism he was the biggest culprit. The staff at Bioware continued to back him and SJW ideals and players found SJW talking points throughout the game and our SJW ideals found inside alien species in the game

Point is, whether in the content of the game/movie or behind the scenes, or its promotion, companies should if trying to make money, make a product that panders to their audience and stay out of social justice issues.

If they do wish to use their platform to further a SJW ideology, they should  be prepared to lose money.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 04:07:10 PM
Clearly you know nothing about Mass Effect. You could always play as a female protagonist. People loved it. You could even make her black if you desired.
Even black? Woah that's bordering in some extremist shit.

Quote
That's not what broke it
What was it then? Don't tell me it was an LGBT character!

Quote
Your dumb.
What about my dumb?

Steve Cortez was awesome and he was the gay character in Mass Effect 3 lol. Mass Effect is set in the future so the idea of married gay people existing in the universe without discrimination isn't jarring. It might be a woke and SJW issue but if written well (ie normally and not shoved down your throat or appearing tokenistic) then people won't take umbrage to it

A good example of tokenism is in the new Star Trek movie, Sulus character was made out to be gay simply because the guy who played Sulu originally is gay in real life. Sulunwas never 'gay' in the original series and even the real Sulu guy thought was over the top and stupid
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 04:23:02 PM
Mass Effect is set in the future so the idea of married gay people existing in the universe without discrimination isn't jarring.
Ah, alright, because if it was set in the present married gay people existing would be super weird.

Quote
It might be a woke and SJW issue but if written well (ie normally and not shoved down your throat or appearing tokenistic) then people won't take umbrage to it
A gay character is an "SJW issue"?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 04:29:27 PM
Mass Effect is set in the future so the idea of married gay people existing in the universe without discrimination isn't jarring.
Ah, alright, because if it was set in the present married gay people existing would be super weird.

Quote
It might be a woke and SJW issue but if written well (ie normally and not shoved down your throat or appearing tokenistic) then people won't take umbrage to it
A gay character is an "SJW issue"?

Don't be a dick Pez. You would have read my qualifier 'WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION' because yes, even today gay people face discrimination.

And yes, for the moment until people stop giving a fuck about what consenting and loving adults do or feel then yes, the concept of homosexuality is a SJW issue. One day it hopefully won't be and people will just be like 'meh'
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 04:56:43 PM
If they do wish to use their platform to further a SJW ideology, they should  be prepared to lose money.
I mean, you say that like it's news. The number of people I've seen that just straight-up say "Hi. If you believe ___, I don't want your money," is staggering.

Also 'SJW talking points in the game' is... that's just good storytelling, extrapolating from existing dynamics to create a variety of cultures and interactions between them is how sci-fi's worked for decades. Nothing is apolitical, the only people that think it is tends to just be those that are on the advantaged side and assume it's a default, and people pointing out that it's not is apparently offensive.

It might be a woke and SJW issue but if written well (ie normally and not shoved down your throat or appearing tokenistic) then people won't take umbrage to it
Soooo. basically it has nothing to do with social justice and we're back at the rather basic statement of "If you're going to write a movie, TV show or game, write it well."
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 05:16:37 PM
If they do wish to use their platform to further a SJW ideology, they should  be prepared to lose money.
I mean, you say that like it's news. The number of people I've seen that just straight-up say "Hi. If you believe ___, I don't want your money," is staggering.

Also 'SJW talking points in the game' is... that's just good storytelling, extrapolating from existing dynamics to create a variety of cultures and interactions between them is how sci-fi's worked for decades. Nothing is apolitical, the only people that think it is tends to just be those that are on the advantaged side and assume it's a default, and people pointing out that it's not is apparently offensive.

It might be a woke and SJW issue but if written well (ie normally and not shoved down your throat or appearing tokenistic) then people won't take umbrage to it
Soooo. basically it has nothing to do with social justice and we're back at the rather basic statement of "If you're going to write a movie, TV show or game, write it well."

Well yes but if social justice is your main goal then it's probably better to make it stand on its own merit instead of rebooting or sequelling a franchise that ultimately has to do some kind of U turn or major character redevelopment that is too unbelievable

Imagine if a film maker decided he wanted to tell a story about the evils of guns and gun violence, so rebooted the Terminator and Arnie came back but without firing a gun because guns are bad.

Ghost Busters wasn't rebooted for the primary reason to tell a story. It came back because if men can do it, so can women. Oceans 8 came back for the same. The story came 2nd to promoting the ideology. Perhaps Hollywood wanted to balance their quotas for female representation so made a bunch of movies and used pre existing franchises in the hope it would bring back an audience to make at least some of the money back

I actually like watching Korean movies and drama shows - for a simple reason the story comes first. They don't care to inject token social ideals to appease a tiny minority. It's also refreshing to see a movie that uses a different formula to Hollywood where the story and plot has become weary, rehashed and predictable.

My Sassy Girl - awesome Korean movie and has a very STRONG and dominant female lead. Feminists rejoice! :)

Here's a funny clip

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2019, 05:19:20 PM
And yes, for the moment until people stop giving a fuck about what consenting and loving adults do or feel then yes, the concept of homosexuality is a SJW issue.
So you're an SJW now?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 23, 2019, 05:25:52 PM

Here's a funny clip




Ha ha, that was great.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 23, 2019, 05:39:53 PM
And yes, for the moment until people stop giving a fuck about what consenting and loving adults do or feel then yes, the concept of homosexuality is a SJW issue.
So you're an SJW now?

No, because I don't 'warrior'. I simply think someone's sexuality is 'meh'. Unless they are into kids. Screw those pedo losers to hell
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 23, 2019, 06:04:50 PM
Ghost Busters wasn't rebooted for the primary reason to tell a story. It came back because if men can do it, so can women. Oceans 8 came back for the same. The story came 2nd to promoting the ideology. Perhaps Hollywood wanted to balance their quotas for female representation so made a bunch of movies and used pre existing franchises in the hope it would bring back an audience to make at least some of the money back
I mean, that's... complicated. It's rare there's just one person behind a story. I doubt anyone wanted to do, say, Ghostbusters without some idea of what the focus would be; the characters all came with backstories and settings, there was thought there. There's no way some people didn't get involved purely because they cared a lot about the franchise and wanted it to be made for a new generation, but there's also the fact that a lot of the studio backing would be on the name value as a cash-grab.
Honestly I didn't hate the new Ghostbusters. It wasn't groundbreaking, wasn't as influential as the original, but, like, it was fine. Just the typical kind of movie to put on and be entertained by even if nothing else (same boat as X-Men Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix for that matter). It's just the worst thing for a movie with a premise like that to be, no one's prepared for something that sparked vitriol by the premise alone to be just ok, especially not when comparison to the original's factored in.

Reboots definitely tend to be cash grabs. That's unlikely to change, and the lack of ideas is way more likely to be tied to that than to any 'forced diversity.' If anything the diversity's to be praised because at least that's going to set it apart from what came before.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 24, 2019, 03:21:19 AM
And yes, for the moment until people stop giving a fuck about what consenting and loving adults do or feel then yes, the concept of homosexuality is a SJW issue.
So you're an SJW now?

No, because I don't 'warrior'. I simply think someone's sexuality is 'meh'. Unless they are into kids. Screw those pedo losers to hell
So you don't care that there is discrimination and you're not willing to do anything about it, and if you were writing a movie you wouldn't have any gay characters because otherwise you'd be a "warrior"?

I don't understand what exactly the issue you have is. Apparently having a gay character or married gay characters not facing discrimination is an a series is an SJW issue, because... It's too extreme at "fighting" discrimination? But then again I guess if there was a gay character and they were facing discrimination, that would also be an SJW issue because it portrays straight people as evil and cultivates victimhood etc. So the only way to not be "reasonable" is if you just don't have gay characters, otherwise it's just too much.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 24, 2019, 03:46:18 AM
And yes, for the moment until people stop giving a fuck about what consenting and loving adults do or feel then yes, the concept of homosexuality is a SJW issue.
So you're an SJW now?

No, because I don't 'warrior'. I simply think someone's sexuality is 'meh'. Unless they are into kids. Screw those pedo losers to hell
So you don't care that there is discrimination and you're not willing to do anything about it, and if you were writing a movie you wouldn't have any gay characters because otherwise you'd be a "warrior"?

I don't understand what exactly the issue you have is. Apparently having a gay character or married gay characters not facing discrimination is an a series is an SJW issue, because... It's too extreme at "fighting" discrimination? But then again I guess if there was a gay character and they were facing discrimination, that would also be an SJW issue because it portrays straight people as evil and cultivates victimhood etc. So the only way to not be "reasonable" is if you just don't have gay characters, otherwise it's just too much.

Christ Pez you sure draw a long bow to reach some weird and f'ed up conclusions. Trying to talk to you is a waste of time. You're just antagonist for antagonistic sake.

One day I hope everyone on this planet couldn't give 2 shits what someones sexuality is. It really should be a non issue

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 24, 2019, 08:36:25 AM
One day I hope everyone on this planet couldn't give 2 shits what someones sexuality is. It really should be a non issue
But until then it's a super huge issue that some series has some gay characters or whatever, because that's "SJW", right?

I understand when people complain about "SJWs" trying to censor them or whatever, I will never understand this. It doesn't make any sense.

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 24, 2019, 02:17:32 PM
One day I hope everyone on this planet couldn't give 2 shits what someones sexuality is. It really should be a non issue
But until then it's a super huge issue that some series has some gay characters or whatever, because that's "SJW", right?

I understand when people complain about "SJWs" trying to censor them or whatever, I will never understand this. It doesn't make any sense.

Pez it really depends on how something is written and the setting. For example the Gillette ad painted males as a problem. Regardless of the individual watching. It's a shaving company. It sells razors. Why is it even getting involved. Generalising a group of people is also a really dumb idea.

Also the kind of people Gillette want to target with their message is very small in number and won't change because they saw some razor ad. Also it's not the 50's anymore when the message might have been useful (if tactfully suggested).

I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women. The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.

I don't have social media accounts or a big circle of 'friends' to pretend I give a damn about perceived social injustices. Do you honestly believe when a celebrity/company lists up for a cause they mean it? Or are they virtue signalling because they think it will help THEIR popularity in some way.

Remember at the same time Gillette was telling men to treat women better and as equal, they still slug them with extra costs for the same product albeit a different colour. Maybe they need to look at themselves with their message instead of 'rapping their customers over the knuckles'

In the context of movies, if the story is written well it's all good. You want to deliver a message. Make it so the message doesn't even sound likd it's been said. It should be weaved in seamlessly. Mad Max Fury Road dud it well. Mass Effect 3 did it well. Mass Effect Andromeda was so bad it felt like the game was playing 'SJW' talking points especially after one if the people who had a large part in its development, went very public with angry racist rants.

With Captain Marvel, the movie was simply another movie. I liked the story enough - people just hated Brie Larson saying it was a 'feminist movie' and her rants against 'white males' who happen to be a large part of the audience in many countries.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 24, 2019, 04:34:32 PM
Pez it really depends on how something is written and the setting. For example the Gillette ad painted males as a problem.
The message was as innocent as "hey, we do bad stuff sometimes, we should get better!". It was nothing. Only a very fragile person could interpret it as "men are evil". It was even other men who were keeping the assholes from being assholes.

Quote
Regardless of the individual watching. It's a shaving company. It sells razors. Why is it even getting involved.
Idk, why are ads getting involved with every stupid irrelevant thing without anyone complaining?

Quote
Also it's not the 50's anymore when the message might have been useful (if tactfully suggested).
What?

Quote
I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women.
You just said that gay people are discriminated against, a few comments back. So which is it? Some gay people I know where beaten up by some assholes for kissing in public. I'm sure they're very relived that the fight is already won. Same with the women getting stalked, trafficked, date raped or having abortions denied. And the people getting estranged from their families for their sexual orientation or gender identity. And the millions of people affected by systemic racism. So stupid of these people to get all warrior about it. Better quietly meditate about how it would be cool if the world got a little bit better while attacking the SJWs for being too uppity or whatever.

Quote
The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.
The west is not even close to being free from problems. Comparing it to something worse is no excuse, it's like saying "oh, well, OK, who cares if there are homeless here, there are more homeless in x".

Quote
I don't have social media accounts or a big circle of 'friends' to pretend I give a damn about perceived social injustices.
The issue is you think that everyone is pretending to care because you don't. It's projection, it's not accurate.

Quote
Do you honestly believe when a celebrity/company lists up for a cause they mean it? Or are they virtue signalling because they think it will help THEIR popularity in some way.
That's not what's important here. You're not attacking the companies doing that because they're not genuine, they're never genuine but people don't give a damn because it's just nothing new. It's the subject matter you are complaining about. Not just you, the whole army of broflakes raging online every time some video game devs shrink the breasts of a character a bit.

Quote
In the context of movies, if the story is written well it's all good. You want to deliver a message. Make it so the message doesn't even sound likd it's been said.
That only works if the message actually passes through. It doesn't work when it's there but people don't even notice. And you're making a completely different criticism now anyways.
Quote
Mass Effect Andromeda was so bad it felt like the game was playing 'SJW' talking points especially after one if the people who had a large part in its development, went very public with angry racist rants
I looked up that person, and I found one image which substituted "white" for other races to show how bad it would seem if it was a white person doing this. All I could think reading the edited versions was that the same people would come and defend him against censorship for doing le epic irony.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 24, 2019, 05:10:52 PM
Pez it really depends on how something is written and the setting. For example the Gillette ad painted males as a problem.
The message was as innocent as "hey, we do bad stuff sometimes, we should get better!". It was nothing. Only a very fragile person could interpret it as "men are evil". It was even other men who were keeping the assholes from being assholes.

Quote
Regardless of the individual watching. It's a shaving company. It sells razors. Why is it even getting involved.
Idk, why are ads getting involved with every stupid irrelevant thing without anyone complaining?

Quote
Also it's not the 50's anymore when the message might have been useful (if tactfully suggested).
What?

Quote
I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women.
You just said that gay people are discriminated against, a few comments back. So which is it? Some gay people I know where beaten up by some assholes for kissing in public. I'm sure they're very relived that the fight is already won. Same with the women getting stalked, trafficked, date raped or having abortions denied. And the people getting estranged from their families for their sexual orientation or gender identity. And the millions of people affected by systemic racism. So stupid of these people to get all warrior about it. Better quietly meditate about how it would be cool if the world got a little bit better while attacking the SJWs for being too uppity or whatever.

Quote
The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.
The west is not even close to being free from problems. Comparing it to something worse is no excuse, it's like saying "oh, well, OK, who cares if there are homeless here, there are more homeless in x".

Quote
I don't have social media accounts or a big circle of 'friends' to pretend I give a damn about perceived social injustices.
The issue is you think that everyone is pretending to care because you don't. It's projection, it's not accurate.

Quote
Do you honestly believe when a celebrity/company lists up for a cause they mean it? Or are they virtue signalling because they think it will help THEIR popularity in some way.
That's not what's important here. You're not attacking the companies doing that because they're not genuine, they're never genuine but people don't give a damn because it's just nothing new. It's the subject matter you are complaining about. Not just you, the whole army of broflakes raging online every time some video game devs shrink the breasts of a character a bit.

Quote
In the context of movies, if the story is written well it's all good. You want to deliver a message. Make it so the message doesn't even sound likd it's been said.
That only works if the message actually passes through. It doesn't work when it's there but people don't even notice. And you're making a completely different criticism now anyways.
Quote
Mass Effect Andromeda was so bad it felt like the game was playing 'SJW' talking points especially after one if the people who had a large part in its development, went very public with angry racist rants
I looked up that person, and I found one image which substituted "white" for other races to show how bad it would seem if it was a white person doing this. All I could think reading the edited versions was that the same people would come and defend him against censorship for doing le epic irony.

Pez you seem the sort of person who lives kudos to an affluent millionaire taking a self ie giving a homeless guy a meal. Get real. I'm not going to bother addressing your post paragraph by paragraph. Screw your splitting :P
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 01:29:34 AM
Pez you seem the sort of person who lives kudos to an affluent millionaire taking a self ie giving a homeless guy a meal.
Nice strawman. I literally addressed this.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 01:48:34 AM
One day I hope everyone on this planet couldn't give 2 shits what someones sexuality is. It really should be a non issue
But until then it's a super huge issue that some series has some gay characters or whatever, because that's "SJW", right?

I understand when people complain about "SJWs" trying to censor them or whatever, I will never understand this. It doesn't make any sense.

Pez it really depends on how something is written and the setting. For example the Gillette ad painted males as a problem. Regardless of the individual watching. It's a shaving company. It sells razors. Why is it even getting involved. Generalising a group of people is also a really dumb idea.

Also the kind of people Gillette want to target with their message is very small in number and won't change because they saw some razor ad. Also it's not the 50's anymore when the message might have been useful (if tactfully suggested).

I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women. The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.

I don't have social media accounts or a big circle of 'friends' to pretend I give a damn about perceived social injustices. Do you honestly believe when a celebrity/company lists up for a cause they mean it? Or are they virtue signalling because they think it will help THEIR popularity in some way.

Remember at the same time Gillette was telling men to treat women better and as equal, they still slug them with extra costs for the same product albeit a different colour. Maybe they need to look at themselves with their message instead of 'rapping their customers over the knuckles'

In the context of movies, if the story is written well it's all good. You want to deliver a message. Make it so the message doesn't even sound likd it's been said. It should be weaved in seamlessly. Mad Max Fury Road dud it well. Mass Effect 3 did it well. Mass Effect Andromeda was so bad it felt like the game was playing 'SJW' talking points especially after one if the people who had a large part in its development, went very public with angry racist rants.

With Captain Marvel, the movie was simply another movie. I liked the story enough - people just hated Brie Larson saying it was a 'feminist movie' and her rants against 'white males' who happen to be a large part of the audience in many countries.

You have no idea of the reality of being female even in progressive Western countries and it's actually getting worse, not better.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 02:33:34 AM
Pez you seem the sort of person who lives kudos to an affluent millionaire taking a self ie giving a homeless guy a meal.
Nice strawman. I literally addressed this.

No. You didn't. And to elaborate what I mean on the above, you fail to realise that millionaire has only 'helped' the single homeless person on a single occasion because of a camera and a social media profile.

Then there are others who may not have millions, but do it only for the hope it goes 'viral' and the views rake in the $$$. The real nice people do these good deeds without cameras. If there is a camera or the hope for exposure, it's exploitation. And in my eyes, those people are arseholes, not caring nice guys

The thread anyway is regarding when companies go 'woke' they can go 'broke'. You disagree? Do you think going 'woke' is a good business decision?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 02:36:00 AM
One day I hope everyone on this planet couldn't give 2 shits what someones sexuality is. It really should be a non issue
But until then it's a super huge issue that some series has some gay characters or whatever, because that's "SJW", right?

I understand when people complain about "SJWs" trying to censor them or whatever, I will never understand this. It doesn't make any sense.

Pez it really depends on how something is written and the setting. For example the Gillette ad painted males as a problem. Regardless of the individual watching. It's a shaving company. It sells razors. Why is it even getting involved. Generalising a group of people is also a really dumb idea.

Also the kind of people Gillette want to target with their message is very small in number and won't change because they saw some razor ad. Also it's not the 50's anymore when the message might have been useful (if tactfully suggested).

I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women. The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.

I don't have social media accounts or a big circle of 'friends' to pretend I give a damn about perceived social injustices. Do you honestly believe when a celebrity/company lists up for a cause they mean it? Or are they virtue signalling because they think it will help THEIR popularity in some way.

Remember at the same time Gillette was telling men to treat women better and as equal, they still slug them with extra costs for the same product albeit a different colour. Maybe they need to look at themselves with their message instead of 'rapping their customers over the knuckles'

In the context of movies, if the story is written well it's all good. You want to deliver a message. Make it so the message doesn't even sound likd it's been said. It should be weaved in seamlessly. Mad Max Fury Road dud it well. Mass Effect 3 did it well. Mass Effect Andromeda was so bad it felt like the game was playing 'SJW' talking points especially after one if the people who had a large part in its development, went very public with angry racist rants.

With Captain Marvel, the movie was simply another movie. I liked the story enough - people just hated Brie Larson saying it was a 'feminist movie' and her rants against 'white males' who happen to be a large part of the audience in many countries.

You have no idea of the reality of being female even in progressive Western countries and it's actually getting worse, not better.

Lets transport you back to your grandparents generation and see if you think it was better then. Don't play a victim. That's what keeps you down and out.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 02:42:05 AM
One day I hope everyone on this planet couldn't give 2 shits what someones sexuality is. It really should be a non issue
But until then it's a super huge issue that some series has some gay characters or whatever, because that's "SJW", right?

I understand when people complain about "SJWs" trying to censor them or whatever, I will never understand this. It doesn't make any sense.

Pez it really depends on how something is written and the setting. For example the Gillette ad painted males as a problem. Regardless of the individual watching. It's a shaving company. It sells razors. Why is it even getting involved. Generalising a group of people is also a really dumb idea.

Also the kind of people Gillette want to target with their message is very small in number and won't change because they saw some razor ad. Also it's not the 50's anymore when the message might have been useful (if tactfully suggested).

I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women. The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.

I don't have social media accounts or a big circle of 'friends' to pretend I give a damn about perceived social injustices. Do you honestly believe when a celebrity/company lists up for a cause they mean it? Or are they virtue signalling because they think it will help THEIR popularity in some way.

Remember at the same time Gillette was telling men to treat women better and as equal, they still slug them with extra costs for the same product albeit a different colour. Maybe they need to look at themselves with their message instead of 'rapping their customers over the knuckles'

In the context of movies, if the story is written well it's all good. You want to deliver a message. Make it so the message doesn't even sound likd it's been said. It should be weaved in seamlessly. Mad Max Fury Road dud it well. Mass Effect 3 did it well. Mass Effect Andromeda was so bad it felt like the game was playing 'SJW' talking points especially after one if the people who had a large part in its development, went very public with angry racist rants.

With Captain Marvel, the movie was simply another movie. I liked the story enough - people just hated Brie Larson saying it was a 'feminist movie' and her rants against 'white males' who happen to be a large part of the audience in many countries.

You have no idea of the reality of being female even in progressive Western countries and it's actually getting worse, not better.

Lets transport you back to your grandparents generation and see if you think it was better then. Don't play a victim. That's what keeps you down and out.

It's getting worse now compared to a couple of decades ago, not compared to my grandparents generation. Women have had rights for a very short time and now men, with the willing assistance of liberal feminists, are taking them away again and most people don't realise it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 25, 2019, 03:08:56 AM


It's getting worse now compared to a couple of decades ago, not compared to my grandparents generation. Women have had rights for a very short time and now men, with the willing assistance of liberal feminists, are taking them away again and most people don't realise it.

How?? Can you give some examples?

I know modern liberal feminist make moves like they hate their own gender, but just curious what you are talking about.

Only thing I can vouch in from a hiring perspective is they are making it where guys don't want to hire women. Has nothing to do with their gender, it's the liability involved now days. It sucks, I would be pissed if I were female
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 03:36:31 AM


It's getting worse now compared to a couple of decades ago, not compared to my grandparents generation. Women have had rights for a very short time and now men, with the willing assistance of liberal feminists, are taking them away again and most people don't realise it.

How?? Can you give some examples?

I know modern liberal feminist make moves like they hate their own gender, but just curious what you are talking about.

Only thing I can vouch in from a hiring perspective is they are making it where guys don't want to hire women. Has nothing to do with their gender, it's the liability involved now days. It sucks, I would be pissed if I were female

Female sports being opened up to biological males (transwomen and men that claim to be transwomen), same for all women shortlists in politics, places where females are vulnerable e.g. refuges, changing rooms, prisons etc.
Just the other day there was a news article about a transwoman with a clear male size and frame playing on a woman's rugby team and the coach joking about how they folded a woman like a deckchair and broke someone's ankle - rugby is dangerous enough as it is without mixed sex teams
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 25, 2019, 03:42:17 AM


It's getting worse now compared to a couple of decades ago, not compared to my grandparents generation. Women have had rights for a very short time and now men, with the willing assistance of liberal feminists, are taking them away again and most people don't realise it.

How?? Can you give some examples?

I know modern liberal feminist make moves like they hate their own gender, but just curious what you are talking about.

Only thing I can vouch in from a hiring perspective is they are making it where guys don't want to hire women. Has nothing to do with their gender, it's the liability involved now days. It sucks, I would be pissed if I were female

Female sports being opened up to biological males (transwomen and men that claim to be transwomen), same for all women shortlists in politics, places where females are vulnerable e.g. refuges, changing rooms, prisons etc.
Just the other day there was a news article about a transwoman with a clear male size and frame playing on a woman's rugby team and the coach joking about how they folded a woman like a deckchair and broke someone's ankle - rugby is dangerous enough as it is without mixed sex teams

Fuck, don't get me started on the mixed sports stuff. That really really makes me mad, not only are women being endangered. It is a spit on women, how hard they work and their sport in general.

I wish all women in all sports walk away and boycott until the rules are changed...simple rule, you have to have been born with a vagina. If I were a women in sports I would be livid


I also don't disagree with anything else you wrote and find it disgusting. Is that really a male thing though? As in we are doing it to keep women down? It seems more of a libtard thing instead of sexism because there are just as many women as men supporting this nonsense
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 04:13:55 AM


It's getting worse now compared to a couple of decades ago, not compared to my grandparents generation. Women have had rights for a very short time and now men, with the willing assistance of liberal feminists, are taking them away again and most people don't realise it.

How?? Can you give some examples?

I know modern liberal feminist make moves like they hate their own gender, but just curious what you are talking about.

Only thing I can vouch in from a hiring perspective is they are making it where guys don't want to hire women. Has nothing to do with their gender, it's the liability involved now days. It sucks, I would be pissed if I were female

Female sports being opened up to biological males (transwomen and men that claim to be transwomen), same for all women shortlists in politics, places where females are vulnerable e.g. refuges, changing rooms, prisons etc.
Just the other day there was a news article about a transwoman with a clear male size and frame playing on a woman's rugby team and the coach joking about how they folded a woman like a deckchair and broke someone's ankle - rugby is dangerous enough as it is without mixed sex teams

Fuck, don't get me started on the mixed sports stuff. That really really makes me mad, not only are women being endangered. It is a spit on women, how hard they work and their sport in general.

I wish all women in all sports walk away and boycott until the rules are changed...simple rule, you have to have been born with a vagina. If I were a women in sports I would be livid


I also don't disagree with anything else you wrote and find it disgusting. Is that really a male thing though? As in we are doing it to keep women down? It seems more of a libtard thing instead of sexism because there are just as many women as men supporting this nonsense

I think it's more of a subset of males, the MRA type. Most ordinary men don't approve of things like mixed sports or allowing males into changing rooms where their wives/mums/daughters might be. And libfems support it because they are desperate not to be seen as the feminists of their mothers generation who are often mocked by men as 'man haters' so they seek approval of men by supporting things that men would like (e.g. 'sex work') and not supporting things that don't centre men (e.g. actual feminist stuff). And then there's the people that don't see the dangers to women and just see is as another civil rights movement, similar to gay rights (when actually it's quite the opposite and very homophobic) and support it for those reasons but usually stop once they learn more.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 04:26:36 AM
I think it's more of a subset of males, the MRA type. Most ordinary men don't approve of things like mixed sports or allowing males into changing rooms where their wives/mums/daughters might be. And libfems support it because they are desperate not to be seen as the feminists of their mothers generation who are often mocked by men as 'man haters' so they seek approval of men by supporting things that men would like (e.g. 'sex work') and not supporting things that don't centre men (e.g. actual feminist stuff). And then there's the people that don't see the dangers to women and just see is as another civil rights movement, similar to gay rights (when actually it's quite the opposite and very homophobic) and support it for those reasons but usually stop once they learn more.
As far as sex work goes, do you think the current laws penalise the women or the men? The argument isn't "Let's give the men everything they want!" It's "Huh, maybe women who've no options but sex work shouldn't be screwed over at every conceivable junction by the law to the point they're afraid to approach the police about legitimate crimes."
I'm not even dignifying the transphobia with a response. We're only a few years away from widespread "But can lesbians be trusted in bathrooms? They might be predatory!" only now it's become even more nonsensical. As far as mixed sports go, the highest profile instance of someone affected by that fearmongering was a cis women so, I guess you must be proud.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 04:35:33 AM


It's getting worse now compared to a couple of decades ago, not compared to my grandparents generation. Women have had rights for a very short time and now men, with the willing assistance of liberal feminists, are taking them away again and most people don't realise it.

How?? Can you give some examples?

I know modern liberal feminist make moves like they hate their own gender, but just curious what you are talking about.

Only thing I can vouch in from a hiring perspective is they are making it where guys don't want to hire women. Has nothing to do with their gender, it's the liability involved now days. It sucks, I would be pissed if I were female

Female sports being opened up to biological males (transwomen and men that claim to be transwomen), same for all women shortlists in politics, places where females are vulnerable e.g. refuges, changing rooms, prisons etc.
Just the other day there was a news article about a transwoman with a clear male size and frame playing on a woman's rugby team and the coach joking about how they folded a woman like a deckchair and broke someone's ankle - rugby is dangerous enough as it is without mixed sex teams

Fuck, don't get me started on the mixed sports stuff. That really really makes me mad, not only are women being endangered. It is a spit on women, how hard they work and their sport in general.

I wish all women in all sports walk away and boycott until the rules are changed...simple rule, you have to have been born with a vagina. If I were a women in sports I would be livid


I also don't disagree with anything else you wrote and find it disgusting. Is that really a male thing though? As in we are doing it to keep women down? It seems more of a libtard thing instead of sexism because there are just as many women as men supporting this nonsense

I think it's more of a subset of males, the MRA type. Most ordinary men don't approve of things like mixed sports or allowing males into changing rooms where their wives/mums/daughters might be. And libfems support it because they are desperate not to be seen as the feminists of their mothers generation who are often mocked by men as 'man haters' so they seek approval of men by supporting things that men would like (e.g. 'sex work') and not supporting things that don't centre men (e.g. actual feminist stuff). And then there's the people that don't see the dangers to women and just see is as another civil rights movement, similar to gay rights (when actually it's quite the opposite and very homophobic) and support it for those reasons but usually stop once they learn more.

Dare I say, given the context of this thread that this very problem is someone's idea of 'progressiveness' and 'wokeness'? Afraid to offend a minority (trans) and to hell with the majority (women in the sport) think?

Sometimes people go too far trying to do a good thing

The road to hell is paved with good intentions
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 04:44:50 AM
I think it's more of a subset of males, the MRA type. Most ordinary men don't approve of things like mixed sports or allowing males into changing rooms where their wives/mums/daughters might be. And libfems support it because they are desperate not to be seen as the feminists of their mothers generation who are often mocked by men as 'man haters' so they seek approval of men by supporting things that men would like (e.g. 'sex work') and not supporting things that don't centre men (e.g. actual feminist stuff). And then there's the people that don't see the dangers to women and just see is as another civil rights movement, similar to gay rights (when actually it's quite the opposite and very homophobic) and support it for those reasons but usually stop once they learn more.
As far as sex work goes, do you think the current laws penalise the women or the men? The argument isn't "Let's give the men everything they want!" It's "Huh, maybe women who've no options but sex work shouldn't be screwed over at every conceivable junction by the law to the point they're afraid to approach the police about legitimate crimes."
I'm not even dignifying the transphobia with a response. We're only a few years away from widespread "But can lesbians be trusted in bathrooms? They might be predatory!" only now it's become even more nonsensical. As far as mixed sports go, the highest profile instance of someone affected by that fearmongering was a cis women so, I guess you must be proud.

That's why the Nordic Model is recommended, the women aren't criminalised but the punters are. It's been shown to decrease trafficking too unlike full decrim or legalisation. And of course the answer to women being in poverty is not to put a dick in their mouth but to give them other options.

If you're talking about Semenya, she is biologically male (with DSD) and went through male puberty like transwomen do which should disqualify them from female sports because it's essentially doping and lowering testosterone levels later on in life don't mitigate the physical advantages of testosterone during the critical period of puberty. And this is a world away from lesbophobia - women aren't afraid of lesbians but we are justifiably wary of males, however they identify, for biological reasons.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 25, 2019, 05:06:49 AM


I think it's more of a subset of males, the MRA type. Most ordinary men don't approve of things like mixed sports or allowing males into changing rooms where their wives/mums/daughters might be. And libfems support it because they are desperate not to be seen as the feminists of their mothers generation who are often mocked by men as 'man haters' so they seek approval of men by supporting things that men would like (e.g. 'sex work') and not supporting things that don't centre men (e.g. actual feminist stuff). And then there's the people that don't see the dangers to women and just see is as another civil rights movement, similar to gay rights (when actually it's quite the opposite and very homophobic) and support it for those reasons but usually stop once they learn more.

That's weird, I never saw the original generation or even second generation of feminist as man haters whatsoever. I see the modern generation as man haters 100 percent though.

Though before I comment further, what is MRA?


Edit for Jane.... I have no idea how you can defend letting men compete in women's sports. Especially with you being a woman. That's just nuts and terrible
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 06:19:39 AM
That's why the Nordic Model is recommended, the women aren't criminalised but the punters are. It's been shown to decrease trafficking too unlike full decrim or legalisation. And of course the answer to women being in poverty is not to put a dick in their mouth but to give them other options.
Sure, give them other options, but that doesn't translate to screwing over those that are already in that situation. Criminalising the punters over the workers is definitely preferrable, which translates to decriminalising sex workers. You can't have one without the other. They aren't the ones that deserve punishment no matter how you slice it.

Quote
If you're talking about Semenya, she is biologically male (with DSD) and went through male puberty like transwomen do which should disqualify them from female sports because it's essentially doping and lowering testosterone levels later on in life don't mitigate the physical advantages of testosterone during the critical period of puberty. And this is a world away from lesbophobia - women aren't afraid of lesbians but we are justifiably wary of males, however they identify, for biological reasons.
Seriously, what? Aside from how sports have always and will always benefit those with certain genetic advantages (case in point, Michael Phelps, from a whole host of physical quirks up to producing half the fatigue-causing lactic acid to a normal athlete, and yet even when that reached the public eye and everyone knew he had clear physical advantages, where was the outcry to ban him?), why aren't you just targetting those advantages? Screw drug tests, just test ability. Can you lift more than __kg? banned! Can you run faster than ___? Banned! Is your muscle density more than ___? Banned!
Like, that's what you're saying. If your care is actually preventing people with an 'advantage' over competition, then go for measuring and criticising that advantage rather than deciding to just villanise a community.

And the last sentence of your post doesn't make sense on even a conceptual level. Women have been scared of lesbians, you can't really have missed that whole spree. And women aren't biologically hardwired to be scared of certain chromosomes, that's just silly. The problem isn't the existence of men, it's that what certain men who cannot be easily identified might choose to do given the chance, which has become systemic partly because of the society we live in. No predator is going to voluntarily undergo hormone replacement, or buy a whole new wardrobe, start going through a myriad of different grooming procedures, drastically increase their chances of being assaulted or outright murdered... That's beyond paranoia. It has even less to it than the lesbophobia because at least there you've got the 'But they're sexually attracted to you!' angle, you don't even have that for sure now. It's straight-up fearmongering and deserves no more respect than that. A transphobe being uncomfortable is their business, and screw them.


Edit for Jane.... I have no idea how you can defend letting men compete in women's sports. Especially with you being a woman. That's just nuts and terrible
It's not about keeping woemn safe and I'm not going to pretend otherwise. There are so many ways for sports to be as safe as they can reasonably be, this is just a power play based upon prejudice.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 06:43:38 AM
A predator does not have to do anything but self ID as a woman. Either you are not paying attention to what is happening, or you are willfully spreading disinformation. Seriously, there was a dude who hid in a sewer so he could take pictures of women. You think they won't put on a dress? The general public tends to think transwomen have had SRS, when most do not and have no intention of ever having surgery (other than ffs, and breast implants). 

Also, the fear of lesbians isn't the same as the fear of men. Yes, some women were, and still are, lesbophobic, but it just isn't the same. A woman is a woman. We don't see a lesbian somewhere and know she is lesbian. The vast majority of transwomen do not pass.

Also, fuck off with all this "trans women are more likely to be murdered" nonsense. They are the least likely to be murdered in the US, Canada, and UK. When they are murdered, it's usually not because they are trans, but because they are prostitutes. Prostitution is dangerous.



IT'S MA'AM!
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 07:15:54 AM
A predator does not have to do anything but self ID as a woman. Either you are not paying attention to what is happening, or you are willfully spreading disinformation. Seriously, there was a dude who hid in a sewer so he could take pictures of women. You think they won't put on a dress? The general public tends to think transwomen have had SRS, when most do not and have no intention of ever having surgery (other than ffs, and breast implants). 
'Self ID' consists of much more than just saying something. Yep, not everyone's going to have fucking surgery to try and win people's respect, but hormones, electrolysis... are all pretty common. Yep, there are creeps out there who'll do all manner of ridiculous stuff, but the number that are going to permanently change their life for the worse just for that is... that's dumb.

Quote
Also, the fear of lesbians isn't the same as the fear of men. Yes, some women were, and still are, lesbophobic, but it just isn't the same. A woman is a woman. We don't see a lesbian somewhere and know she is lesbian. The vast majority of transwomen do not pass.

Also, fuck off with all this "trans women are more likely to be murdered" nonsense. They are the least likely to be murdered in the US, Canada, and UK. When they are murdered, it's usually not because they are trans, but because they are prostitutes. Prostitution is dangerous.
Or more rather, plenty of trans women do pass, but people want to use any excuse to target women that aren't conventionally attractive, throw out 'looks like a man!' at the drop of a hat, and the same vitriol just gets used to target mostly cis women and you praise that exact attitude when they just happen to hit a trans woman. And if you really think people don't look at soemone and decide that she has to be a lesbian for dumb reasons, I don't know what to say.
Hmm. I wonder why trans people get forced into prostitution. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 07:39:30 AM
No. You didn't.
Yeah I did. No one is buying that the reason you're upset is the hypocrisy dude.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 07:50:58 AM
Are you suggesting that sports shouldn't be sex segregated then? Do you know why they are sex segregated? To make them reasonably safe and fair. To segregate by various abilities is just unworkable, wheres segregated by sex is simple and effective. It's not segregated by gender identity so there is zero basis for transwomen to partake in female sports, but it would be transphobic not to let them take part in male sports. Women will get seriously injured, even die, from letting males play contact sports like rugby with them. Is that acceptable to you?

Women aren't scared of lesbians, some women are lesbophobic but that is not fear. Women are wary of males because males are on average bigger and stronger. They commit the vast majority of violent and sexual assault, and they can impregnate women. Those are the biological reasons for women to be wary of males, especially in places they are vulnerable. And any male that violates their boundaries by, for example, entering their changing rooms, is waving a big red flag. And this isn't hypothetical, males are already claiming to be transwomen in order to assault women and girls, it's happening in toilets, changing rooms, rape refuges, and prisons. Predators train as social workers, teachers, priests, prison guards, sports coaches to access women and children in order to abuse them, you don't think they'd go to the extent of putting on some lipstick or a wig? Because self-ID means they don't have to do any medical transitioning, hell they don't even have to put on a wig, butch transwomen are a thing now.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 08:11:08 AM

Hmm. I wonder why trans people get forced into prostitution. Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Now that you are wondering, wonder why it is mostly black transwomen who turn to prostitution (and are murdered). Then I hope you keep on wondering. Wonder about the fact that most transwomen in prison are there for sex crimes against women and children. Wonder about the fact that the effects of  puberty are irreversible. Wonder about the fact that artificially reducing a male's testosterone levels do not lower their athletic abilities to that of females. Wonder about the fact that high school age boys routinely break sporting records of Olympic level female athletes. Wonder about the reason you would gladly turn your back on women so that men can live out their fetishes in public. Wonder about the fact that transsexuals are being silenced for not agreeing with trans rights activists. Wonder about the fact that parents are being lied to about the serious health risks of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones.

I hope you will look into all of these issues and have some compassion for women and girls. I don't really expect you to do it, though. Most of us terves have sympathy for people suffering dysphoria, we're not opposed to trans people's existence. We are opposed to the fetishists abusing the situation. We're opposed to women being censored for wanting to discuss changes to the laws.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 08:14:33 AM
I think it's very weird that of all the things getting worse for women, you picked this extremely marginal thing to be the super serious one. I know lots of women getting stalked, abused by partners, lesbians facing homophobia, having gotten date raped, being forced to take day after pills because some asshole lied about wearing a condom while they were drunk, facing issues with childcare, being talked down, having angry incels lash out against them, and more, but one thing I've never heard of is being stalked by someone pretending to be trans. I know it's, like, the most serious problem in the world according to the Daily Mail but it really isn't even close to being one of the most significant issues. It's even more baffling how feminists complaining about that decide to side with the people actually responsible for the serious issues on that particular issue. I get there are issues which can be solved but inciting trans panic and embracing bigotry is definitely not the way to solve them.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 08:17:22 AM
Pez, it's serious because laws are being changed. It's serious because women are losing female only spaces. It's not serious to you because you will never have to deal with it.

ALSO, Gayer! I sent you a message on the terven site.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: wise on August 25, 2019, 08:36:38 AM
I think these ads did not published in our country , region. it seems to have made more impact in Australia. maybe gillette think them as weak of rings. I mean, more feminine, more gay. For example, if there were such advertisements in our country, there would not even be a gillete sales store remained here. Here, the global genocide project for the Australian people has an impact.australia is the greenest country in the world and is the leader in cancer and similar diseases as its air and water become the most toxic. more toxic vaccines are being applied them, and the population of Australia will be reduced to 1 or a few millions in the next 20 years.

the so-called "let's be a good man" is not surprising to me the efforts of the company try to do Australians be gay. I even think that rabinoz likes these ads. I haven't read the comments yet, but I'm sure he has no reaction at all about those adds. Because he likes such gay things.

the pez' has the right to worry about his relatives going to australia. pez', tell them do not eat anything from Australia, but bring foods from Greece. I worry the foods in Australia make people sick, feminem or gay. Look at rabinoz, then you can get me.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 08:37:16 AM
Pez, it's serious because laws are being changed. It's serious because women are losing female only spaces. It's not serious to you because you will never have to deal with it.

ALSO, Gayer! I sent you a message on the terven site.

Francy is alive!!!
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 08:39:19 AM
Oh wise. I can't even. lol
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 08:41:35 AM
I think it's very weird that of all the things getting worse for women, you picked this extremely marginal thing to be the super serious one. I know lots of women getting stalked, abused by partners, lesbians facing homophobia, having gotten date raped, being forced to take day after pills because some asshole lied about wearing a condom while they were drunk, facing issues with childcare, being talked down, having angry incels lash out against them, and more, but one thing I've never heard of is being stalked by someone pretending to be trans. I know it's, like, the most serious problem in the world according to the Daily Mail but it really isn't even close to being one of the most significant issues. It's even more baffling how feminists complaining about that decide to side with the people actually responsible for the serious issues on that particular issue. I get there are issues which can be solved but inciting trans panic and embracing bigotry is definitely not the way to solve them.

The taking away of women's sex-based rights is a very big deal. For instance there's the Yaniv case in Canada - a transwoman taking immigrant women to the human rights tribunal for not wanting to wax Yaniv's balls, claiming discrimination because Yaniv claims to be a woman. No woman should be forced to touch someone's cock and balls against their will, even if the person attached to said cock and balls claims to be a woman.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 08:46:53 AM
Are you suggesting that sports shouldn't be sex segregated then? Do you know why they are sex segregated? To make them reasonably safe and fair. To segregate by various abilities is just unworkable, wheres segregated by sex is simple and effective. It's not segregated by gender identity so there is zero basis for transwomen to partake in female sports, but it would be transphobic not to let them take part in male sports. Women will get seriously injured, even die, from letting males play contact sports like rugby with them. Is that acceptable to you?
People have been injured and died playing many sports. Deciding to single out one group of 'perpetrators' is what I object to, that's outright prejudiced against your targets and insulting to everyone else who's been affected. Yep, I've no doubt you can find me many lists of violent sports like rugby in which trans women have injured others, just like it's going to be easy to find lists of women playing against cis women, men playing against cis men, who were also seriously or fatally hurt. Safety in sport is a legitimate concern, scapegoating a minority does not achieve any of that. By that logic let's make it race-segregated because black people tend to have stronger bone density, thus giving them an advantage because they might not be injured in a situation where a white person was.
'All men are stronger than all women' is rubbish. On the whole, maybe the max potential of some chromosomes are better than the max potential of others, but 99.99% at the time no one is going to be anywhere near the maximum potential of what they're capable of, and even then the percentage difference is not as superhero vs mere mortal as you are making it out to be, especially on top of the fact sports are about more than brute strength. The only sports where there is legitimate risk of serious injury if a trans woman play are sports where there was already a risk of serious injury. Players aren't stupid.

On de-desegregating, eh, I don't have any real opinion, it's not my job to analyse the best way to set up the system, but I'm also not going to pretend targetting a community as opposed to a trait is anything except bs.
If your objection is to inherent advantages, then go right again and object to inherent advantages. I expect to see protests against Michael Phelps for starters, tests for height so that there's a max height to place, say, basketball... Until then you can stop pretending your issue is with advantage rather than plain old prejudice.

I hope you will look into all of these issues and have some compassion for women and girls. I don't really expect you to do it, though. Most of us terves have sympathy for people suffering dysphoria, we're not opposed to trans people's existence. We are opposed to the fetishists abusing the situation. We're opposed to women being censored for wanting to discuss changes to the laws.
Yeah, you can stop pretending. I have compassion for women and girls, it just extends to more than cis women. The problem is you are opposed to the existence of trans people, or at least them existing in public. That's how this stuff works, saying that you're not doesn't magically alter the contents of what you've argued for. I've heard it all before, from basically the exact same people, I had no sympathy when it was lesbians and I'm not going to pretend it deserves any respect now. When your message is 'this community should categorically be banned from professions and public locations like bathrooms,' then no, you don't deserve a platform.
Are there fetishists? Eh, probably, just like there are cis women who're criminals, you don't demonise or blame a whole community, and frankly I care about as much about that as I do someone who's opted to go bondaged up under their clothes. So long as they're subtle about it, don't take pleasure in making everyone uncomfortable, who the hell cares? Weirds me out, but if I don't go out of my way to peer at their junk and they don't feel like waving it my face, it isn't going to affect anyone. Everything you're objecting to is already criminal. Making it double-illegal to assault someone is moronic.

Prejudice is and should be censored. End of. Singling out a community is the definition of prejudice.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 08:48:51 AM
Pez, it's serious because laws are being changed. It's serious because women are losing female only spaces. It's not serious to you because you will never have to deal with it.

ALSO, Gayer! I sent you a message on the terven site.
Apparently it never affects the vast majority of women either, unlike a whole host of other issues, so clearly there's a weird sense of priorities here. I can see how the sports thing can get pretty nasty. The changing room controversy also probably needs a better solution. The "terven" answer seems to be "trans people bad". I can't accept that they actually have no issue with trans people when they go ahead and endlessly demonise them. Is it that confusing that people dismiss every issue they bring up when it's invariably to shit on trans people?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 08:50:50 AM
I think these ads did not published in our country , region. it seems to have made more impact in Australia. maybe gillette think them as weak of rings. I mean, more feminine, more gay. For example, if there were such advertisements in our country, there would not even be a gillete sales store remained here. Here, the global genocide project for the Australian people has an impact.australia is the greenest country in the world and is the leader in cancer and similar diseases as its air and water become the most toxic. more toxic vaccines are being applied them, and the population of Australia will be reduced to 1 or a few millions in the next 20 years.

the so-called "let's be a good man" is not surprising to me the efforts of the company try to do Australians be gay. I even think that rabinoz likes these ads. I haven't read the comments yet, but I'm sure he has no reaction at all about those adds. Because he likes such gay things.

the pez' has the right to worry about his relatives going to australia. pez', tell them do not eat anything from Australia, but bring foods from Greece. I worry the foods in Australia make people sick, feminem or gay. Look at rabinoz, then you can get me.
I'll tell them, don't worry, I won't let Australia do my relatives be gay lol.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 09:05:06 AM
Pez, it's serious because laws are being changed. It's serious because women are losing female only spaces. It's not serious to you because you will never have to deal with it.

ALSO, Gayer! I sent you a message on the terven site.
Apparently it never affects the vast majority of women either, unlike a whole host of other issues, so clearly there's a weird sense of priorities here. I can see how the sports thing can get pretty nasty. The changing room controversy also probably needs a better solution. The "terven" answer seems to be "trans people bad". I can't accept that they actually have no issue with trans people when they go ahead and endlessly demonise them. Is it that confusing that people dismiss every issue they bring up when it's invariably to shit on trans people?

If you think the terves are only saying "trans people bad" then you haven't paid attention to anything I've posted. It's all right there for you to go back and read. I don't know why you think I want you to accept that we have no issues with trans people when I've listed a bunch of the issues.

We have sympathy for those suffering with dysphoria. We are concerned about the lifetime medicalization of kids. We are concerned for the safety of women and girls. Imagine that, feminism that cares about females! It must come as a surprise to those who have grown up with the commercial version of feminism.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 10:04:29 AM
Are you suggesting that sports shouldn't be sex segregated then? Do you know why they are sex segregated? To make them reasonably safe and fair. To segregate by various abilities is just unworkable, wheres segregated by sex is simple and effective. It's not segregated by gender identity so there is zero basis for transwomen to partake in female sports, but it would be transphobic not to let them take part in male sports. Women will get seriously injured, even die, from letting males play contact sports like rugby with them. Is that acceptable to you?
People have been injured and died playing many sports. Deciding to single out one group of 'perpetrators' is what I object to, that's outright prejudiced against your targets and insulting to everyone else who's been affected. Yep, I've no doubt you can find me many lists of violent sports like rugby in which trans women have injured others, just like it's going to be easy to find lists of women playing against cis women, men playing against cis men, who were also seriously or fatally hurt. Safety in sport is a legitimate concern, scapegoating a minority does not achieve any of that. By that logic let's make it race-segregated because black people tend to have stronger bone density, thus giving them an advantage because they might not be injured in a situation where a white person was.
'All men are stronger than all women' is rubbish. On the whole, maybe the max potential of some chromosomes are better than the max potential of others, but 99.99% at the time no one is going to be anywhere near the maximum potential of what they're capable of, and even then the percentage difference is not as superhero vs mere mortal as you are making it out to be, especially on top of the fact sports are about more than brute strength. The only sports where there is legitimate risk of serious injury if a trans woman play are sports where there was already a risk of serious injury. Players aren't stupid.

On de-desegregating, eh, I don't have any real opinion, it's not my job to analyse the best way to set up the system, but I'm also not going to pretend targetting a community as opposed to a trait is anything except bs.
If your objection is to inherent advantages, then go right again and object to inherent advantages. I expect to see protests against Michael Phelps for starters, tests for height so that there's a max height to place, say, basketball... Until then you can stop pretending your issue is with advantage rather than plain old prejudice.

I hope you will look into all of these issues and have some compassion for women and girls. I don't really expect you to do it, though. Most of us terves have sympathy for people suffering dysphoria, we're not opposed to trans people's existence. We are opposed to the fetishists abusing the situation. We're opposed to women being censored for wanting to discuss changes to the laws.
Yeah, you can stop pretending. I have compassion for women and girls, it just extends to more than cis women. The problem is you are opposed to the existence of trans people, or at least them existing in public. That's how this stuff works, saying that you're not doesn't magically alter the contents of what you've argued for. I've heard it all before, from basically the exact same people, I had no sympathy when it was lesbians and I'm not going to pretend it deserves any respect now. When your message is 'this community should categorically be banned from professions and public locations like bathrooms,' then no, you don't deserve a platform.
Are there fetishists? Eh, probably, just like there are cis women who're criminals, you don't demonise or blame a whole community, and frankly I care about as much about that as I do someone who's opted to go bondaged up under their clothes. So long as they're subtle about it, don't take pleasure in making everyone uncomfortable, who the hell cares? Weirds me out, but if I don't go out of my way to peer at their junk and they don't feel like waving it my face, it isn't going to affect anyone. Everything you're objecting to is already criminal. Making it double-illegal to assault someone is moronic.

Prejudice is and should be censored. End of. Singling out a community is the definition of prejudice.

It's not targeting a community, it's targeting a trait, that trait being sex. If non trans males were allowed to play female sports and trans males were excluded then that would be targeting a community, and vice versa. You clearly don't understand why sports are sex segregated, nor understand the physiological differences between males and females so I suggest you do some research before you try to debate this.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 10:26:26 AM
It's not targeting a community, it's targeting a trait, that trait being sex. If non trans males were allowed to play female sports and trans males were excluded then that would be targeting a community, and vice versa. You clearly don't understand why sports are sex segregated, nor understand the physiological differences between males and females so I suggest you do some research before you try to debate this.
Which is... a community.
Again, if your issues are the physiological differences, then that would be the trait. Anyone, cis or trans, with a certain level of strength that might be dangerous, banned. Anyone with an advantage like Phelps, banned. If what someone is capable of with their body is what makes you need to ban them, then instead of painting an entire group of people with that brush, target the capabilities specifically.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 10:29:10 AM
Pez, it's serious because laws are being changed. It's serious because women are losing female only spaces. It's not serious to you because you will never have to deal with it.

ALSO, Gayer! I sent you a message on the terven site.
Apparently it never affects the vast majority of women either, unlike a whole host of other issues, so clearly there's a weird sense of priorities here. I can see how the sports thing can get pretty nasty. The changing room controversy also probably needs a better solution. The "terven" answer seems to be "trans people bad". I can't accept that they actually have no issue with trans people when they go ahead and endlessly demonise them. Is it that confusing that people dismiss every issue they bring up when it's invariably to shit on trans people?

If you think the terves are only saying "trans people bad" then you haven't paid attention to anything I've posted. It's all right there for you to go back and read. I don't know why you think I want you to accept that we have no issues with trans people when I've listed a bunch of the issues.

We have sympathy for those suffering with dysphoria. We are concerned about the lifetime medicalization of kids. We are concerned for the safety of women and girls. Imagine that, feminism that cares about females! It must come as a surprise to those who have grown up with the commercial version of feminism.
It's very hard to accept that you do have that sympathy for people with dysphoria give all you've said. It's also very hard to accept this is all because of a concern about safety and not because trans people are gross or whatever. Especially when the excuses are typically just the same excuses made against gay people in the past (and present) adjusted a little bit.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 10:39:25 AM
It's not targeting a community, it's targeting a trait, that trait being sex. If non trans males were allowed to play female sports and trans males were excluded then that would be targeting a community, and vice versa. You clearly don't understand why sports are sex segregated, nor understand the physiological differences between males and females so I suggest you do some research before you try to debate this.
Which is... a community.
Again, if your issues are the physiological differences, then that would be the trait. Anyone, cis or trans, with a certain level of strength that might be dangerous, banned. Anyone with an advantage like Phelps, banned. If what someone is capable of with their body is what makes you need to ban them, then instead of painting an entire group of people with that brush, target the capabilities specifically.

The issues are the physiological differences between the sexes, the reason why sports are sex segregated. You're an intelligent person, why are you not grasping this? It would be unworkable to set up different sports leagues for every different capability, and it would still end up with all males in the top leagues which would be the ones that would actually get funding so women lose out.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 11:22:57 AM
Female athletes already receive significantly less funding which is... Kind of a bigger problem for them than trans people.

Though I will agree that the sports thing should probably be dropped, it causes more harm than good.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
It's not targeting a community, it's targeting a trait, that trait being sex. If non trans males were allowed to play female sports and trans males were excluded then that would be targeting a community, and vice versa. You clearly don't understand why sports are sex segregated, nor understand the physiological differences between males and females so I suggest you do some research before you try to debate this.
Which is... a community.
Again, if your issues are the physiological differences, then that would be the trait. Anyone, cis or trans, with a certain level of strength that might be dangerous, banned. Anyone with an advantage like Phelps, banned. If what someone is capable of with their body is what makes you need to ban them, then instead of painting an entire group of people with that brush, target the capabilities specifically.

The issues are the physiological differences between the sexes, the reason why sports are sex segregated. You're an intelligent person, why are you not grasping this? It would be unworkable to set up different sports leagues for every different capability, and it would still end up with all males in the top leagues which would be the ones that would actually get funding so women lose out.
Like that doesn't happen already.
Yep, you keep repeating physiological differences, but given no one seems to give a damn about any physiological differences beyond this one, it's really hard to believe that's your priority. I'll listen when you start segregating some sports by height, kicking people like Phelps out from wherever they're competing...
Your problem is not physiological differences giving someone an advantage when the only physiological difference you're complaining about is being trans.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2019, 11:29:59 AM
It's not targeting a community, it's targeting a trait, that trait being sex. If non trans males were allowed to play female sports and trans males were excluded then that would be targeting a community, and vice versa. You clearly don't understand why sports are sex segregated, nor understand the physiological differences between males and females so I suggest you do some research before you try to debate this.
Which is... a community.
Again, if your issues are the physiological differences, then that would be the trait. Anyone, cis or trans, with a certain level of strength that might be dangerous, banned. Anyone with an advantage like Phelps, banned. If what someone is capable of with their body is what makes you need to ban them, then instead of painting an entire group of people with that brush, target the capabilities specifically.

The issues are the physiological differences between the sexes, the reason why sports are sex segregated. You're an intelligent person, why are you not grasping this? It would be unworkable to set up different sports leagues for every different capability, and it would still end up with all males in the top leagues which would be the ones that would actually get funding so women lose out.
Like that doesn't happen already.
Yep, you keep repeating physiological differences, but given no one seems to give a damn about any physiological differences beyond this one, it's really hard to believe that's your priority. I'll listen when you start segregating some sports by height, kicking people like Phelps out from wherever they're competing...
Your problem is not physiological differences giving someone an advantage when the only physiological difference you're complaining about is being trans.
Jane, I agree with you on this subject generally but I still think that separate leagues are needed. Sport becoming an almost exclusively male activity (which also corresponds to only men having the ability to gain funding for college that way etc) is not a good thing, and neither is women having to compete with trans women who passed puberty as men in contact sports. But I don't think it goes against the framework of sex/gender separation, it makes sense to just say that in this case it makes sense to separate leagues based on sex.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 11:38:53 AM
It's not targeting a community, it's targeting a trait, that trait being sex. If non trans males were allowed to play female sports and trans males were excluded then that would be targeting a community, and vice versa. You clearly don't understand why sports are sex segregated, nor understand the physiological differences between males and females so I suggest you do some research before you try to debate this.
Which is... a community.
Again, if your issues are the physiological differences, then that would be the trait. Anyone, cis or trans, with a certain level of strength that might be dangerous, banned. Anyone with an advantage like Phelps, banned. If what someone is capable of with their body is what makes you need to ban them, then instead of painting an entire group of people with that brush, target the capabilities specifically.

The issues are the physiological differences between the sexes, the reason why sports are sex segregated. You're an intelligent person, why are you not grasping this? It would be unworkable to set up different sports leagues for every different capability, and it would still end up with all males in the top leagues which would be the ones that would actually get funding so women lose out.
Like that doesn't happen already.
Yep, you keep repeating physiological differences, but given no one seems to give a damn about any physiological differences beyond this one, it's really hard to believe that's your priority. I'll listen when you start segregating some sports by height, kicking people like Phelps out from wherever they're competing...
Your problem is not physiological differences giving someone an advantage when the only physiological difference you're complaining about is being trans.

I explained that segregating according to numerous different physiological differences would be unworkable. Sex segregation works, it's worked fine for many years and finally womens sports are gaining traction and getting more attention (the recent football world cup for instance) which will hopefully translate into better funding that is still woefully unequal. I'm not complaining about people being trans, I'm complaining about people who are male being allowed to compete against people who are female, I would be equally angry if they were males who do not identify as women - their identity has nothing to do with it, it's their sex that is the problem.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 12:44:28 PM
Jane, I agree with you on this subject generally but I still think that separate leagues are needed. Sport becoming an almost exclusively male activity (which also corresponds to only men having the ability to gain funding for college that way etc) is not a good thing, and neither is women having to compete with trans women who passed puberty as men in contact sports. But I don't think it goes against the framework of sex/gender separation, it makes sense to just say that in this case it makes sense to separate leagues based on sex.
I've said I'm not commenting on sex-segregation in sports. I'm not saying one way or another because that much is a hugely complicated topic with a whole host of issues of itself. Personally I think a tier system could work, but it'd need a huge ground-up change of not just the leagues but social attitudes towards sport in general, so... eh, can't really make a perfect model with an imperfect basis.

My objection is just the hypocrisy of singling out trans people and claiming it's to prevent advantage, when happily letting plenty of competitors who already have advantage in easily measurable fashions compete with zero scrutiny. That's when it turns into "Don't exist in public," territory because there's no recourse for trans atheletes that they're offering. There is no way to reconcile worries about potential advantage of trans women while not also worrying about the myriad of personal quirks that help people like, again, Phelps from getting medal after medal and record after record. No amount of training is going to get any cis man to have his body produce different amounts of lactic acid, longer arms, or double-jointedness. Strangely though, no one cares about well-known inherent advantages when it isn't backed by transphobia.
Like, if anything Phelps is the perfect test case. At the lower levels you don't really have much that's going to guarantee a cis woman isn't massively better than a trans woman because at that point the degree of training is much more open; it's only when you get to world record calibre peaks that there might be any worry of physiological advantage winning out because everyone's training level is about even, and... no one cared. I'm not going to pretend nor let anyone pretend that disadvantage is even remotely what motivates that argument.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 01:05:53 PM
Pez, it's serious because laws are being changed. It's serious because women are losing female only spaces. It's not serious to you because you will never have to deal with it.

ALSO, Gayer! I sent you a message on the terven site.
Apparently it never affects the vast majority of women either, unlike a whole host of other issues, so clearly there's a weird sense of priorities here. I can see how the sports thing can get pretty nasty. The changing room controversy also probably needs a better solution. The "terven" answer seems to be "trans people bad". I can't accept that they actually have no issue with trans people when they go ahead and endlessly demonise them. Is it that confusing that people dismiss every issue they bring up when it's invariably to shit on trans people?

If you think the terves are only saying "trans people bad" then you haven't paid attention to anything I've posted. It's all right there for you to go back and read. I don't know why you think I want you to accept that we have no issues with trans people when I've listed a bunch of the issues.

We have sympathy for those suffering with dysphoria. We are concerned about the lifetime medicalization of kids. We are concerned for the safety of women and girls. Imagine that, feminism that cares about females! It must come as a surprise to those who have grown up with the commercial version of feminism.
It's very hard to accept that you do have that sympathy for people with dysphoria give all you've said. It's also very hard to accept this is all because of a concern about safety and not because trans people are gross or whatever. Especially when the excuses are typically just the same excuses made against gay people in the past (and present) adjusted a little bit.

What have I said that indicates I don't have sympathy for people with dysphoria? (I don't have sympathy for the fetishists) Or that I think all trans people are gross? Or where I've used the same excuses that were used against gay people in the past?  You can't surfboard me, my posts are here. If you're going to make such accusations, you should quote me.

So far you've agreed with at least two of the issues I've brought up. Sports, change rooms, I hope you would be against medically transitioning kids with experimental drugs, I also hope you'd be against putting male sex offenders, or other violent males into female prisons just because they identify as trans. 

Maybe you're a TERF!
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 01:17:46 PM
I also hope you'd be against putting male sex offenders, or other violent males into female prisons just because they identify as trans. 
Try again, see if you get it right this time.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 02:17:45 PM
My objection is just the hypocrisy of singling out trans people and claiming it's to prevent advantage, when happily letting plenty of competitors who already have advantage in easily measurable fashions compete with zero scrutiny. That's when it turns into "Don't exist in public," territory because there's no recourse for trans atheletes that they're offering. There is no way to reconcile worries about potential advantage of trans women while not also worrying about the myriad of personal quirks that help people like, again, Phelps from getting medal after medal and record after record. No amount of training is going to get any cis man to have his body produce different amounts of lactic acid, longer arms, or double-jointedness. Strangely though, no one cares about well-known inherent advantages when it isn't backed by transphobia.
Like, if anything Phelps is the perfect test case. At the lower levels you don't really have much that's going to guarantee a cis woman isn't massively better than a trans woman because at that point the degree of training is much more open; it's only when you get to world record calibre peaks that there might be any worry of physiological advantage winning out because everyone's training level is about even, and... no one cared. I'm not going to pretend nor let anyone pretend that disadvantage is even remotely what motivates that argument.

Where do you draw the line? Maybe people with dwarfism can object to not being accepted in Basketball against their 7 foot counterparts? Genes will always give people an advantage. It doesn't matter how well you train. Someone will always be better gifted in the genetics department that can out perform you.

It's not illegal to train in the Himalays where the oxygen is thin to adapt your body to producing more red blood cells but it is illegal to inject extra blood into you (even if its your own blood withdrawn earlier). Do we then stop people training at high altitudes because the net effect is the same?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 02:20:53 PM
I think it's very weird that of all the things getting worse for women, you picked this extremely marginal thing to be the super serious one. I know lots of women getting stalked, abused by partners, lesbians facing homophobia, having gotten date raped, being forced to take day after pills because some asshole lied about wearing a condom while they were drunk, facing issues with childcare, being talked down, having angry incels lash out against them, and more, but one thing I've never heard of is being stalked by someone pretending to be trans. I know it's, like, the most serious problem in the world according to the Daily Mail but it really isn't even close to being one of the most significant issues. It's even more baffling how feminists complaining about that decide to side with the people actually responsible for the serious issues on that particular issue. I get there are issues which can be solved but inciting trans panic and embracing bigotry is definitely not the way to solve them.

Are you seriously suggesting that people should NOT talk about a certain issue because it's not 'number 1'? This is the kind of argument people make when they want to interject but have nothing to add to the discussion. ie trolling

If you are genuinely concerned about stalking, abuse, date raping and homophobia etc, start a thread to talk about those. No one is stopping you from these things being discussed.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 02:30:02 PM
I mean I hate to do this after I'm... 50% sure you agreed with me? (Odds are: 50% agreement, 30% disagreement without realising you were agreeing, 15% drunk, 5% spontaneously turned into a wallaby and we're in a 10,000 monkeys situation). It's just too much fun to point out.

Are you seriously suggesting that people should NOT talk about a certain issue because it's not 'number 1'? This is the kind of argument people make when they want to interject but have nothing to add to the discussion. ie trolling
I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women. The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 02:32:15 PM
I mean I hate to do this after I'm... 50% sure you agreed with me? (Odds are: 50% agreement, 30% disagreement without realising you were agreeing, 15% drunk, 5% spontaneously turned into a wallaby and we're in a 10,000 monkeys situation). It's just too much fun to point out.

Are you seriously suggesting that people should NOT talk about a certain issue because it's not 'number 1'? This is the kind of argument people make when they want to interject but have nothing to add to the discussion. ie trolling
I don't 'warrior' because the battle is largely won already. No where near me is there a problem with the way fats are treated or women are treated 2nd class for being women. The places all these progressive values need to be fought in aren't 'in the western developed countries' but the developing countries or the Middle East etc where women are 2nd class and homosexuality is outlawed to the point where people cheer as they are whipped or bound and thrown off rooftops to their death.  Is The West free of problems. Not 100% but no country will ever be free of criminals or people who are simply dicks to other people.

Sometimes the most outlandish of odds can be the right one.  8)  ;)
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 03:11:30 PM
I also hope you'd be against putting male sex offenders, or other violent males into female prisons just because they identify as trans. 
Try again, see if you get it right this time.

I know you don't care about women, what is it you want me to get right?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 03:47:20 PM
I also hope you'd be against putting male sex offenders, or other violent males into female prisons just because they identify as trans. 
Try again, see if you get it right this time.

I know you don't care about women, what is it you want me to get right?
*Have empathy
Let's see, so: "I also hope you'd be against putting male sex offenders, or other violent males into female prisons just because they identify as trans."
Well to begin with, not 'males who identify as trans' in this case as your intent is pretty obvious. So step one:
"Female sex offenders and other violent women in female prisons who happen to be trans."
But step two, why are you specifiying the offense? That's not relevant to what you're saying, unless you're now saying being female and being violent/a sex offender are incompatible, which... no, that's nonsense. It's just there do you can play off the 'trans women are actually secretly violent men out to hurt the innocent cis women!' stereotype in a pretty up-front manipulation tactic. So a question that actually makes sense as a question would be:

"Are you saying female criminals who happen to be trans should be in a female prison?"

And yes. Easily. Because on one hand, even if we take your 'they're just violent sex offenders!' spiel, there are plenty of cis women who're guilty of that and of assault, and guess where they end up? Oh, right, prison. Will they hurt other prisoners? Eh, same odds as other criminals in there, and they're going to be one person somewhere that's filled with guards with equipment and ready-made groups, and if they're actually a violent offender they're going to be in a high security prison, and in turn be surrounded by violent people. There's nothing they can do that any other violent inmate (which, remember, would make up most of their fellow prisoners if that's what they're guilty of) could not also do; even if you want to make it about sexual assault, it doesn't stop being a violation if a cis women perpetrates it. Even in this uber-extreme scenario maybe the one thing that's even conceivably possible is pregnancy, which is going to require you go through the whole 'trans woman,' 'is actually violent rather than, you know, a normal fucking person,' 'is able to deal with all the prison safeguards specifically designed to stop inmates hurting each other,' 'is able to overpower an inmate who, reminder, is also going to be a violent criminal,' and you're still met with basically non-existent odds because, y'know, hormones kinda get in the way of that even assuming that's a body part they'd want to use because, again, trans.
To take a non-cartoonish depiction of, y'know, real people that actually exist, it's more likely to be someone that made a dumb mistake from poverty, possibly drug-related thanks to the US's ever-successful war on drugs... So. Not someone that's actually going to be a danger, and is way more likely to be a target than a perpetrator because transphobia hardly vanishes in prison. Personally I'd be way more concerned with male guards in a position of power and poor prison oversight and care that allow such problems, rather than plain old transphobic fearmongering that ultimately amounts to nothing. But of course, your intent isn't actually helping anyone.
And of course, what's the alternative? Oh, right, chuck a trans woman in a male prison, and you can fuck right off with that if you're even going to pretend you give a damn about anything even approaching empathy.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 03:51:26 PM
And of course, what's the alternative? Oh, right, chuck a trans woman in a male prison, and you can fuck right off with that if you're even going to pretend you give a damn about anything even approaching empathy.

Certainly if they have a dick, then yeah, throw them in with the other dicks.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 04:04:15 PM
And of course, what's the alternative? Oh, right, chuck a trans woman in a male prison, and you can fuck right off with that if you're even going to pretend you give a damn about anything even approaching empathy.

Certainly if they have a dick, then yeah, throw them in with the other dicks.
Think about that for more than a couple of seconds, think about how it would look, and if you can do that without suddenly feeling viscerally sick you need help.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 04:09:06 PM
Jane, your argument makes no sense. Trans women are not female, if they were female they wouldn't be trans. Females who happen to be trans are trans men. For their safety they are housed in female prisons. Funny you don't see lots of trans men trying to get moved to male prisons, isn't it?

I know your dangerhair is standing on end right now, but there are lots of men, who weren't trans when they committed their crimes, who are now claiming to be trans so they can get moved to the female estate. I do not have any sympathy for them, and I'm not trying to pretend I do. I don't have sympathy for rapists and child molesters.



Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 25, 2019, 04:13:08 PM
And of course, what's the alternative? Oh, right, chuck a trans woman in a male prison, and you can fuck right off with that if you're even going to pretend you give a damn about anything even approaching empathy.

Certainly if they have a dick, then yeah, throw them in with the other dicks.

Look how easy it is ..... As they say in kindergarten cop "guys have penises girls have vaginas"

As SCG keeps saying and has said many times, Jane's does not care about women. She is putting other over them.


Yes you say have empathy....there is empathy. No one here is saying they shouldn't be allowed to do what they want, they should....but....as long as it doesn't harm or put anyone else in danger. That is where the line is drawn.

In 2019 when we can be any race/gender or really anything we want. Let's say I identify as an Asian female doctor. Does that mean I get to operate on others so my feelings don't get hurt?

It's simple as this, when it comes to sports, bathrooms and other areas it's simple. Natural Innies and outies...keep them separate like a middle school dance.

Because believe me, if I was a predator at this point in history, slap lipstick on me and call me Sally.

So speaking of empathy, why don't you try it for women Jane... Just the two issues of sports, not only is it hugely unfair and makes a mockery of them. Many times it can be dangerous and risk injury or worse. Same with the bathroom crap... It puts women in a possible situation of danger. Why do that?

Also, no one said we are calling all trans people sex offenders etc. But it puts women in a bad situation, so why take that risk? It's like the law in America felons can't own guns. If you are a felon, does that mean you will guaranteed shoot someone if you had a gun? No, but why take the risk when considering the data?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 04:13:23 PM
And of course, what's the alternative? Oh, right, chuck a trans woman in a male prison, and you can fuck right off with that if you're even going to pretend you give a damn about anything even approaching empathy.

Certainly if they have a dick, then yeah, throw them in with the other dicks.
Think about that for more than a couple of seconds, think about how it would look, and if you can do that without suddenly feeling viscerally sick you need help.

Here's a novel thought. Don't do the crime that gets you doing time?

Or if you want to join the women in their prison, get the chop!

Imagine some incel alpha male piece of shit having a legal framework that allowed him to sook about 'human rights abuses' because he suddenly woke up as a woman in a male jail because you know - gender is fluid lol. Imagine if the legal framework existed for him to be transferred to a womans jail.

and if you can do that without suddenly feeling viscerally sick you need help

Should we build trans only jails now? I know some states in America official recognise dozens of different genders. Maybe a prison for each one?
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 04:19:46 PM
For the safety of actual trans women, there should be a wing, or dorm or whatever you'd call it, for trans women. A prison in the UK somewhere has one (of course the TRAs protested it). There are lots more jails and prisons in the US, they could work something out in each state. Prisoners deserve safety.

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 04:27:18 PM
I know your dangerhair is standing on end right now, but there are lots of men, who weren't trans when they committed their crimes, who are now claiming to be trans so they can get moved to the female estate.
Jesus you are paranoid. Yes, there are going to be utter monsters in any community, and maybe a handful of opportunists though more likely a handful gaming the system to get hormones for free, deciding to punish a whole community for that is the definition of prejudice. Are you going to propose sending cis female rapists and child molesters to male prisons? You 'don't care' about them after all. They're going to be dangerous to women in the same prison as them, after all.
You don't care about protecting women. Nothing you are saying is about protecting women. You're just utterly fucking over women you personally don't like.

Quote
Funny you don't see lots of trans men trying to get moved to male prisons, isn't it?
Hmm. You put some men who're probably attracted to women in a place where they're surrounded by predominantly-straight women that're out of contact with the rest of the world for a while. Hmmm. Hmmmmmmmm.

Trans women are female. That's what trans means. Get over yourself. As a general rule I trust what someone says their own identity is as they're going to have more of an idea than a stranger.

Also, no one said we are calling all trans people sex offenders etc. But it puts women in a bad situation, so why take that risk?
Women are in danger walking down the street or going to a party if cis men happen to be there. Why take the risk? Let's pass a law banning all cis men from ever interacting with women.
It doesn't put them in a 'bad situation.' The situation is not any worse. You can get assaulted by literally anyone. You're literally just deciding "Oh, no, this community's evil on principle," and punishing all of them for the actions of a few, meanwhile other communities with members that do the exact same thing go unpunished because, y'know, it isn't about protecting women. So, yes, you are calling the whole community sex offenders because normally we just target the perpetrators rather than passing a law to punish every member of a group. This is literally just the lesbophobia of years back all over again, the exact people are saying it and basically the exact people are eating it up, only now transphobes of other stripes are using it as an excuse.
Hell, bathroom bills just make it worse. Go look up the photos of trans men needing to go to women's bathrooms, tell me you don't think that's going to make it easier for predators to sneak in.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 04:32:31 PM
Imagine some incel alpha male piece of shit having a legal framework that allowed him to sook about 'human rights abuses' because he suddenly woke up as a woman in a male jail because you know - gender is fluid lol. Imagine if the legal framework existed for him to be transferred to a womans jail.
You're acting like I wouldn't pay to see an incel self-declared alpha male to end up surrounded by a crowd of violent women, convicted murderers and assaulters both, and vastly outnumbered.

You're kinda overestimating how strong men actually are. I think you'll find people that try to abuse it would come to regret their decision pretty damn fast.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 04:38:17 PM

Hell, bathroom bills just make it worse. Go look up the photos of trans men needing to go to women's bathrooms, tell me you don't think that's going to make it easier for predators to sneak in.

We have women only gyms and spaces because some women fill uncomfortable with men gawking at them. Even if a trans is not violent, why should a woman share a shower and toilet and eat with a guy (trans or pretending) when he still has his chopper

I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 04:42:36 PM
Holy shit.

Female prisoners, no matter their crime, belong in female prisons. Transwomen are not female. Male and female aren't identities, they are sexes. You are born one or the other (even people with DSDs are either male or female). If a transwoman commits a crime, they do not belong in female prisons.

I have no idea what all your hmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmms are about, but it's pretty hilarious.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 04:43:42 PM
I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.

If they've done all that, they're not "cis".
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 04:49:19 PM
I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.

If they've done all that, they're not "cis".

Ah, of course. What I meant was someone biologically born as a male to start with. If they choose to chop off their dick and grow some breasts, I accept the trans-ness. If they still want to piss standing up, then they should not identify as a woman to be put in places (such as prisons or other female safe spaces).

A make up and wig simply doesn't cut it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 04:52:09 PM
We have women only gyms and spaces because some women fill uncomfortable with men gawking at them. Even if a trans is not violent, why should a woman share a shower and toilet and eat with a guy (trans or pretending) when he still has his chopper
So does that extend to women, the people who'd definitely be sexually attracted to women rather than trans women who might well like guys exclusively, or are you just punishing a whole community over a stereotype again?

Quote
I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.
Personally I tend to not expect someone to have fucking surgery on their genitals before treating them like a human being.
Early in transition, eh, that's the only point you might have an argument and even then more down to the limitations a lot of countries put down to make transitioning harder. That's about the only stage where you have even a hope of arguing they're an opportunist, because the number of people who'd permanently change their bodies like that and earn the ire of, well, almost everyone in this thread alone let alone the rest of the world... just to be a creep? Uh, no, that's paranoia.
Otherwise only taking the radical step of not actively being an asshole to someone until they're had years of often expensive medical treatment? Nope. You're the dick there.


Female prisoners, no matter their crime, belong in female prisons.
So... it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with protecting prisoners from potentially dangerous inmates, so you can fuck right off with pretending that.

Quote
Transwomen are not female. Male and female aren't identities, they are sexes. You are born one or the other (even people with DSDs are either male or female). If a transwoman commits a crime, they do not belong in female prisons.
They're identities. No one cares about chromosomes. Literally, they just don't. You're as aware as I am there's more than just XX and XY, can you honestly tell me for certain what even yours are? I couldn't tell you mine. I could take an informed guess, but eh, couldn't say for sure. Chromosomes don't matter save between you and your doctor and potentially romantic partner.

Quote
I have no idea what all your hmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmms are about, but it's pretty hilarious.
It is, though probably not for the reason you want.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 05:06:53 PM
You seem to think the chromosome argument is some kind of gotcha, and that lesbians are predators.

Male and female are not identities. They are sex categories. We are not assigned male or female at birth (or before birth) we are observed male or female.

What's with the "treating them like human beings" argument? Do you think men aren't human?


Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 05:09:18 PM
We have women only gyms and spaces because some women fill uncomfortable with men gawking at them. Even if a trans is not violent, why should a woman share a shower and toilet and eat with a guy (trans or pretending) when he still has his chopper
So does that extend to women, the people who'd definitely be sexually attracted to women rather than trans women who might well like guys exclusively, or are you just punishing a whole community over a stereotype again?

Quote
I actually don't have an issue with a cis male being put in a womens prison if they have lived a life as a woman, have all the hormones done as well as chopping off their dick. If they decide one day tey want to live life as a woman and look everything like a guy right down to a hairy nutsack, it's simply not good enough.
Personally I tend to not expect someone to have fucking surgery on their genitals before treating them like a human being.
Early in transition, eh, that's the only point you might have an argument and even then more down to the limitations a lot of countries put down to make transitioning harder. That's about the only stage where you have even a hope of arguing they're an opportunist, because the number of people who'd permanently change their bodies like that and earn the ire of, well, almost everyone in this thread alone let alone the rest of the world... just to be a creep? Uh, no, that's paranoia.
Otherwise only taking the radical step of not actively being an asshole to someone until they're had years of often expensive medical treatment? Nope. You're the dick there.


Female prisoners, no matter their crime, belong in female prisons.
So... it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with protecting prisoners from potentially dangerous inmates, so you can fuck right off with pretending that.

Quote
Transwomen are not female. Male and female aren't identities, they are sexes. You are born one or the other (even people with DSDs are either male or female). If a transwoman commits a crime, they do not belong in female prisons.
They're identities. No one cares about chromosomes. Literally, they just don't. You're as aware as I am there's more than just XX and XY, can you honestly tell me for certain what even yours are? I couldn't tell you mine. I could take an informed guess, but eh, couldn't say for sure. Chromosomes don't matter save between you and your doctor and potentially romantic partner.

Quote
I have no idea what all your hmmmm hmmmmm hmmmmmmmms are about, but it's pretty hilarious.
It is, though probably not for the reason you want.

Without splitting the post Pex style I will just summarise that prisons aren't safe havens any time. Guys frequently get beat up and raped. Where's your outrage for their plight? Maybe we should have a separate prison for alpha and beta males. Those poor beta males having to bend over in the shower  :'( Guys will even get raped by non homosexuals because rape is not about sex right? It's all about POWER.

Also Pedos get every inmates faeces thrown at them (much to my lol)

I'm pretty sure there is a Y chromosome somewhere with me. And I would suspect you have a Y chromosome somewhere floating around in you. It's probably the only thing that makes sense judging by your postings
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 05:13:25 PM
You seem to think the chromosome argument is some kind of gotcha, and that lesbians are predators.

Male and female are not identities. They are sex categories. We are not assigned male or female at birth (or before birth) we are observed male or female.

What's with the "treating them like human beings" argument? Do you think men aren't human?

In a woke move that Jane will be pleased with the Tasmanian government has decided to NOT put on birth certificates the babies gender. In the off chance that they might decide later that they do not identify with what would otherwise be on the birth certificate later on.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/tasmania-to-be-first-aussie-state-to-remove-gender-on-birth-certificate/news-story/ec605df2b3d1384a7cff33e9c0db7f87

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Slemon on August 25, 2019, 05:17:00 PM
You're talking to the queer girl here. Fun facts! Anyone remotely active in the community knows a few trans people, and has knows at least one person who's attempted to or has killed themselves because of precisely the vitriol you're spewing here.
And for what? You aren't protecting anyone, that's palpably obvious. You're not doing anything to actually reduce danger, to actually target criminals, you're just making an assumption about a community and riding the hardline conservative prejudice to victory on it ignoring the blood on your hands. Because let's not mince words here. You're not making anything safer, you're not acting to stop predators. You're deciding a whole community has to be a predator, ignoring the predators outside it, and shrugging over the real people caught in the crossfire. In some cases you're just plain making it easier for actual predators.
You're not looking for dangers, you're looking for trans people, assuming they're the dangers, and ignoring all the other dangers rather than tackling the actual problem.

So no, don't pretend it's about protecting anyone. That's an old line, so is "I care about them, really!" And it hasn't been true yet. All you're doing is scapegoating, or finding some socially acceptable way to vent your prejudices, inventing danger so you can feel satisfied you overcame it. Meanwhile people actually live in the world with the shitstorm you stir up.
There are bad people in every community. Sure, some trans people are going to be dangerous, but I promise you that for every actual trans predator out there, there's two or three kids that killed themselves because of people like you, and don't for a fucking second pretend otherwise. No amount of hand-wringing or excuses is going to change that it is exactly this that's to blame. Exactly what you're saying here, all this pointless manipulation and invented controversy, you know precisely the attitude that invokes. It's vile, and I'm not going to act like it's not.

You're talking to the person that's actually talked to plenty of people affected. It isn't some academic debate.
Every single time the conclusions of your supposed premises are pointed out, you back down, and it always comes back to the same points. "Trans women aren't women!" "Trans men aren't men!" (They're just getting laid a lot in prison, SCG, as you apparently missed that). Because that's literally all this is. There's no lofty goals of protection, there's no making things safer or easier, it's just prejudice, plain and simple. It's old hat by now, and it's always disgusting when it tries to co-opt actually important movements. Just assuming that a whole community of people has to be lying, or predators.
So if you're wondering why I have no patience for it, there you go: there are actual people whose lives are at stake, so many more than the overblown handful of victims of mostly-invented cases of the eeeeevvil trans women, and the collective answer is 'screw them' for absolutely no good reason. For blind adherence to an incorrect and insignificant prejudice.

tl;dr: stereotyping a community protects no one, if you're looking for trans people rather than dangerous people then that's just being an asshole, gender doesn't matter and sex matters to your doctor and pretty much no one else, people are dying you penguins.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 05:31:27 PM
You're talking to the queer girl here. Fun facts! Anyone remotely active in the community knows a few trans people, and has knows at least one person who's attempted to or has killed themselves because of precisely the vitriol you're spewing here.
And for what? You aren't protecting anyone, that's palpably obvious. You're not doing anything to actually reduce danger, to actually target criminals, you're just making an assumption about a community and riding the hardline conservative prejudice to victory on it ignoring the blood on your hands. Because let's not mince words here. You're not making anything safer, you're not acting to stop predators. You're deciding a whole community has to be a predator, ignoring the predators outside it, and shrugging over the real people caught in the crossfire. In some cases you're just plain making it easier for actual predators.
You're not looking for dangers, you're looking for trans people, assuming they're the dangers, and ignoring all the other dangers rather than tackling the actual problem.

So no, don't pretend it's about protecting anyone. That's an old line, so is "I care about them, really!" And it hasn't been true yet. All you're doing is scapegoating, or finding some socially acceptable way to vent your prejudices, inventing danger so you can feel satisfied you overcame it. Meanwhile people actually live in the world with the shitstorm you stir up.
There are bad people in every community. Sure, some trans people are going to be dangerous, but I promise you that for every actual trans predator out there, there's two or three kids that killed themselves because of people like you, and don't for a fucking second pretend otherwise. No amount of hand-wringing or excuses is going to change that it is exactly this that's to blame. Exactly what you're saying here, all this pointless manipulation and invented controversy, you know precisely the attitude that invokes. It's vile, and I'm not going to act like it's not.

You're talking to the person that's actually talked to plenty of people affected. It isn't some academic debate.
Every single time the conclusions of your supposed premises are pointed out, you back down, and it always comes back to the same points. "Trans women aren't women!" "Trans men aren't men!" (They're just getting laid a lot in prison, SCG, as you apparently missed that). Because that's literally all this is. There's no lofty goals of protection, there's no making things safer or easier, it's just prejudice, plain and simple. It's old hat by now, and it's always disgusting when it tries to co-opt actually important movements. Just assuming that a whole community of people has to be lying, or predators.
So if you're wondering why I have no patience for it, there you go: there are actual people whose lives are at stake, so many more than the overblown handful of victims of mostly-invented cases of the eeeeevvil trans women, and the collective answer is 'screw them' for absolutely no good reason. For blind adherence to an incorrect and insignificant prejudice.

tl;dr: stereotyping a community protects no one, if you're looking for trans people rather than dangerous people then that's just being an asshole, gender doesn't matter and sex matters to your doctor and pretty much no one else, people are dying you penguins.

You sound pretty worked up and angry Jane. You should relax. Or take it to Angry Ranting.

I don't personally care if someone wants to cross dress, identify with another sex etc. It's not my business. But surely there has to be a line drawn (lets go back to sports) in where they can compete.

The link I put above has a clip of that transwoman Laurel Hubbard competing in weight lifting. Previously she competed in mens weight lifting events. Do you think that is fair on her fellow female competitors? You can get banned for taking a prescription medication which might give you a poofteeth worth of advantage. So why is no one allowed to raise an eyebrow when a male weightlifter, trans to female and competes against other females?

Another way. Imagine Usain Bolt competing next time in the womens sprinting. Do you think that would be fair? Even if he takes all the hormones do you think that will drop the edge to be on par with the other women?

Perhaps we need an entirely new section. We have one for the disabled. We can have mens, womens and trans events.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2019, 05:36:20 PM
What do you think would happen to a transman in a male prison? You seem to think they're not asking to be moved because they're getting lots of pussy, but they know what would happen if they were placed with males.

Also, you really should think about all the suicide talk. You are creating a situation where young dysphoric people feel like they have no hope. They think their choice is transition or die. You should listen to some detrans people. They have a lot to say about it. I recommend gnc-centric.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 09:44:19 PM
Jane you are intelligent so you know it's not possible to change sex, and you know sex is a biological reality that is present in every cell of our bodies, so you know that transwomen aren't female.

Female prisoners are an extremey vulnerable population, the vast majority are not in for violent offences (I'm talking UK stats here because that's what I know) and most have been victims of DV and/or sexual abuse. On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims and you are ok with this? This has nothing to do with genuine transsexuals who are generally not a threat to women as they are usually homosexual.  Transwomen are not the only vulnerable population in male prisons, gays and younger men and the elderly are also more vulnerable but we don't suggest putting them in female prisons, so it's not about safety, it's about validation and women's safety is more important than the validation of someone's identity. More effort needs to be put into making male prisons safer, and separate wings for vulnerable prisoners, that is the only safe solution.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Crouton on August 25, 2019, 09:57:23 PM

 On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims

Seriously? do you have a citation for this? Because this is wild if true.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Shifter on August 25, 2019, 10:04:28 PM

 On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims

Seriously? do you have a citation for this? Because this is wild if true.

I have no idea of the authenticity of this news outlet but it's not the only one to report things like this

https://www.rt.com/uk/463994-transgender-prisoners-britain-numbers/

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 25, 2019, 10:07:13 PM

 On the other hand, half of the trans prisoners in the UK are sex offenders, prison doctors have previously warned that many prisoners are transitioning in prison not because of dysphoria but so they can get access to women, or get extra privileges, or because they think it will make the parole board go easier on them. So literally predators in prison are claiming to be trans in order to access more victims

Seriously? do you have a citation for this? Because this is wild if true.

It's as true as can be known as they only track the trans prisoners who need a decision on where to place them in prison (male prison, female prison, vulnerable wing) https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42221629

About non-dysphoria reasons for transitioning http://data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19532.html

http://data.parliament.uk/WrittenEvidence/CommitteeEvidence.svc/EvidenceDocument/Women%20and%20Equalities/Transgender%20Equality/written/19471.html
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 02:14:23 AM

Is that really a male thing though? As in we are doing it to keep women down?

If you have marketable skills you get raises and promotions.

Waiting in line is not a skill. You force your way up.
Don't blame 'male' for your 'girl' lack of vigor and drive.

It's not length of time of ass in chair.
It's what you bring to the table.

Men will never acquiesce to the feminine work style.
Why would we run slower just to sandbag the finish.

Or are we expected to stand there and let you win?


If you can't do it on your own, get out of our way.

Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 26, 2019, 07:23:21 AM
You're talking to the queer girl here. Fun facts!

Unless this was said with sarcasm, does this not explain her bias for trans people and the lgtbq as a whole? Willing to step on anyone's toes and even endanger people so they can do whatever they want with no recourse.

You are still a woman though, that is the surprising part. Or is that the mind set in the community, us against against the world, and to hell with the world
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 09:05:06 AM
If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.   


Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 26, 2019, 09:16:39 AM
If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

Damn Bullwinkle, someone is feisty today.

Not that I don't find that much wrong with that, however I will say as I said before, people should be able to do whatever the fuck they want without persecution....as long as it doesn't harm or infringe the rights of another.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2019, 10:03:53 AM
If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

Damn Bullwinkle, someone is feisty today.

Not that I don't find that much wrong with that, however I will say as I said before, people should be able to do whatever the fuck they want without persecution....as long as it doesn't harm or infringe the rights of another.

Funnily enough, that is what the TERFs think about it as well.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bom Tishop on August 26, 2019, 10:13:33 AM
If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

Damn Bullwinkle, someone is feisty today.

Not that I don't find that much wrong with that, however I will say as I said before, people should be able to do whatever the fuck they want without persecution....as long as it doesn't harm or infringe the rights of another.

Funnily enough, that is what the TERFs think about it as well.

Is that good or bad? Not familiar with that acronym. I know it's something with radical feminist, I just don't know much about it.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2019, 10:35:15 AM
It's supposed to stand for "trans exclusionary radical feminist" but it is thrown around at anyone who questions anything to do with the trans movement. You could replace it with bitch or witch and it would make much more sense when used in context. Those of us who've been accused of being TERFs sometimes ironically call ourselves TERFs, or terves, or terven (like a coven of witches). Most of the people accused of terfery aren't even radical feminists, some of them aren't feminists at all. For instance, there are parents who are extremely concerned about the rapid rise of children being trans who are called TERF. 
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 10:39:03 AM
I'm not shitting on the wackos,
I just don't think bat shit crazy is a protected class.


Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Crouton on August 26, 2019, 10:59:44 AM
If a man thinks he is a rabbit he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is the jesus he has a mental disorder.
If a man thinks he is a women he has a mental disorder.

It's not that I don't care about mental illness;
I also don't celebrate cancer.

This is one of the oddest things about trans people. Somehow labeling it as some kind of disorder makes me an asshole. It's like they would prefer to think of it as an identity instead.

But an identity doesn't require paying a team of doctors 6 figure sums to rectify.

It would be like if I needed a root canal. Then I got offended whenever someone said i had a problem with my teeth. Then after i got the root canal i get offended at everyone who says I've ever had a problem with my teeth and insist that my tooth had a crown on it the entire time.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 26, 2019, 11:10:07 AM
That's the thing, for some (the most vocal ones) it's not a disorder because they don't actually have gender dysphoria and don't medically transition beyond a touch of hormones and maybe breast implants because it's a sexual kink thing (autogynephilia). The ones that actually have dysphoria acknowledge that it's a medical issue that they seek medical treatment for, they also tend to be the ones that agree with TERFs. More and more transsexuals are speaking out now, the new trans rights activists aren't for their rights.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Crouton on August 26, 2019, 11:18:53 AM
I saw a video on YouTube, Blair white I think. It was about the penis removal part of gender reassignment. It turns out that this is potentially an extremely nasty procedure with a lot of possibilities of severe side effects.

I could see why people might forgo that particular surgery.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Colonel Gaydafi on August 26, 2019, 11:32:12 AM
Yeah those surgeries have a high rate of complications and not great results, I don't blame anyone for not wanting that. But it's not just about surgery, it's about therapy to look into the dysphoria to find out whether it's actually a symptom of something else (particularly an issue with young girls coming out as trans, most have a history of abuse or trauma, or are on the spectrum, or have mental health issues) or exists in its own right, or if there's no dysphoria at all. But activists call this gatekeeping and are against it, even though it's an essential step in the process to protect vulnerable people from making permanent life-changing decisions. Too many detransitioners coming out now telling how they were pushed onto hormones and offered surgery very quickly with little or no psychological assessment. And they detransition with their bodies left damaged.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2019, 11:38:51 AM
Yeah, I watch Blaire's videos. I agree that surgery shouldn't be done, and the people they're doing it on are basically guinea pigs. Blaire's videos on trans issues are great, the ones about feminism are pretty shallow, but if your only experience with feminism is this intersectional consumerist version then that is understandable, because it is shallow.  I also enjoy Rose of Dawn's videos, because stupidity is intersectional!

If you really want to be horrified, look up phalloplasty.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 11:50:49 AM

If you really want to be horrified, look up phalloplasty.

Is that like those boiled peanuts?   :o
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 26, 2019, 12:00:23 PM

If you really want to be horrified, look up phalloplasty.

Is that like those boiled peanuts?   :o

Well, it looks kinda boiled.
Title: Re: Go woke, go broke lol
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 26, 2019, 12:18:55 PM
I have a feeling it looks like mangled bait.
No inclination to search.   8)