The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Danang on July 18, 2019, 05:52:19 AM

Title: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 18, 2019, 05:52:19 AM
Enjoy the video  8)

Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 18, 2019, 05:56:17 AM
Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: sokarul on July 18, 2019, 06:14:19 AM
Your video contained zero evidence. Do you have any?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: turtles on July 18, 2019, 06:34:31 AM
Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D

You've never had a video call with someone on a different continent and it's night time there while it's day time for you?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 18, 2019, 02:24:07 PM
No, they do exist.
I can attest to that from first hand experience travelling over seas and needing to change my watch/phone over, as well noticing the sun is up at a completely different time.

I can also attest to it with skype calls to people over seas, and with computers needing time zones to accurately tell the time.

Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D
No, solar time does exit.
The fact that watches don't follow it exactly is irrelevant.

A time zone for a region will roughly match solar time. But so there aren't billions of different time zones, it will not match perfectly.
It wont drift to follow the sun over the course of the year other than as an adjustment for daylight savings time, which doesn't even follow solar noon.
It wont vary as you move each meter east or west either.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 18, 2019, 04:53:34 PM
Enjoy the video  8)


I don't know about the rest of the earth, but time zones certainly do exist  on our many trips in the USA from Dallas to Los Angeles by car on the highways.

When you go west from Texas to California :
You set your clocks and watches back 1 hour. when you cross from Texas into New Mexico and go from Central Daylight  Time Zone to Mountain Daylight Time Zone.
Arizona stays on Mountain Standard Time the entire year,  so you change to Mountain Standard Time when you cross from New Mexico to Arizona part of the year.
Arizona is on Mountain Standard Time Zone  and California is on Pacific Daylight Time Zone part of the year so you don't reset your watches and clocks part of the year.
Otherwise you set your watches and clocks back 1 hour when you cross from Arizona to California from Mountain Standard Time to Pacific Standard Time.
That might seem a bit complicated and confusing to an outsider but that's how it works.
I don't know if you are just joking......
But time zones DO exist.😁
How many time zones  are there in your country ?

Just some trivia on time zones.:
The old Concorde SST airplanes went so fast you got to New York before you left Paris according the local times in New York and Paris when going west.

Back in the old days of transatlantic steamships , in particular the Titanic, clocks were set ahead or back so many minutes according to how many miles you were in that time zone each night  rather than just setting them ahead or back 1 hour when you go from one time zone to another. This has caused a lot of confusion to the Titanic Historians.

For example if you were going west and passed through half of a time zone the ship's clocks would be set back 30 minutes instead of 1 hour. This setting of the clocks was usually done at midnight. Of course GMT (Greenwch Mean Time) as it was called in Titanic's time is now called UTC ( Universal Time Coordinated ) remains the same wherever you are in the world. You just convert this to local time by the difference in hours such as UTC + 2 or UTC  - 2 for example for your time zone.

You can check your time in your time zone  and compare it with the times in other time zones time on www time gov .

It might be interesting to compare local times of all the users on line on this forum of those in different parts of the world.
At UTC or GMT of 01:08 AM or 01:08 hours  just after midnight on the morning of Friday, July 19, 2018 in London, England, UK
Here in Irving, Texas, USA it is 8:08 PM or 20:08 hours Central Daylight Savings Time (CDST) on the evening of  Thursday, July 18, 2019
Any others ?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on July 18, 2019, 07:29:20 PM
Time zones are a construct of man. Therefore, they have the same existence as the gallon, the light-year, the border between France and Spain and the month of September.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 19, 2019, 12:35:41 PM
Time zones are a construct of man. Therefore, they have the same existence as the gallon, the light-year, the border between France and Spain and the month of September.

it is really very simple. :
The earth makes 1 revolution the sun of every day on the Global Earth.
The sun would make 1 revolution of the earth of every day  on a Flat Earth
There are 24 hours in a day.
There are 24 time zones, each an hours difference in time.
The Earth's circumference at the equator is about 25,000 miles.
The 360 degrees of the circumference divided by the 24 time zones equals about 15 degrees per time zone.
Each time zone is about 1,000 miles wide.
Everyone within a time zone sets their clocks to the same Standard Time for that time zone.
For example : A  person in Atlanta, Georgia might be talking on the telephone to a person in Odessa, Texas, close to 1,000 miles apart.
But their clocks would both be set to the same Central Standard Time although the actual solar time would be different in Atlanta and Odessa.
Before Standard Time Zones came into use,  for  example, each railway station across the country would set their clocks to local solar time  but now they set their clocks to the same Standard  Time for the time zone where they are located . There were reports that there was some confusion to travelers when each station would have a different solar  time even if there was not too much difference in miles between the stations. If you were keeping time by setting your watch to the local station's time on a cross country trip you might have to reset your watch each time you were at a different station only a few miles apart before Standard Time Zones came into use.

Time zones do exist and there is nothing about them in " the global time system " that is " messed up ".
They work in the real world.
There are many Time Zone Maps ; For the entire Global Earth and detailed maps  for different countries .

How would  a Time Zone Map look for a Flat Earth ?


Correction:
Atlanta is in the Eastern Time Zone.
A better example would be a Montgomery, Alabama - Odessa , Texas telephone conversation.
Both are at extreme edges of the Central Time Zone
They would have the same clock time (CST) but the solar times would be different.
Solar Time and Standard Time might be the same at some point Time Zone but not necessarily in the center of the Time Zone
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 19, 2019, 08:36:52 PM
How would  a Time Zone Map look for a Flat Earth ?
This depends on what kind of FE you have.
If you have the ancient FE with the sun dropping below, then it would just be one giant time zone. (or you may be able to break it up into a bunch of tiny time zones which are quite close together so that noon is when the sun is directly overhead or due north/south, but unless the sun is quite close that wouldn't be an issue).
If you have the common NP centred AEP, or the less common SP centred version, then it would be much like the RE, with regions with a particular longitude having the same time zone.

The bipolar model is more complex, with time zones being significantly different between the northern and southern summer.
During the northern summer, the northern hemisphere would be quite like the globe model or the NP centred AEP.
But the southern hemisphere would be quite different.
Assuming 0 degrees is where the north and south pole are directly connected, then between 90 degrees west and 90 degrees east (the section with the 0 degrees) would have the same or similar time zones to the north.
But for the other half, it would be quite different, with the sun rising to the west and setting to the east. 180 degrees would have the same time zone as 0 degrees, 135 degrees east would be the same as 45 degrees east. 100 degrees east would be the same as 80 degrees east, and so on.
This would then flip during the southern summer (technically at the equinox) at which point the south would be normal and the north would be broken.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 19, 2019, 09:38:09 PM
How would  a Time Zone Map look for a Flat Earth ?
This depends on what kind of FE you have.
If you have the ancient FE with the sun dropping below, then it would just be one giant time zone. (or you may be able to break it up into a bunch of tiny time zones which are quite close together so that noon is when the sun is directly overhead or due north/south, but unless the sun is quite close that wouldn't be an issue).
If you have the common NP centred AEP, or the less common SP centred version, then it would be much like the RE, with regions with a particular longitude having the same time zone.

The bipolar model is more complex, with time zones being significantly different between the northern and southern summer.
During the northern summer, the northern hemisphere would be quite like the globe model or the NP centred AEP.
But the southern hemisphere would be quite different.
Assuming 0 degrees is where the north and south pole are directly connected, then between 90 degrees west and 90 degrees east (the section with the 0 degrees) would have the same or similar time zones to the north.
But for the other half, it would be quite different, with the sun rising to the west and setting to the east. 180 degrees would have the same time zone as 0 degrees, 135 degrees east would be the same as 45 degrees east. 100 degrees east would be the same as 80 degrees east, and so on.
This would then flip during the southern summer (technically at the equinox) at which point the south would be normal and the north would be broken.

Thanks very much .
Are there any illustrations of those maps ?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 21, 2019, 12:46:36 AM
Your video contained zero evidence. Do you have any?

The sun delay is the evidence.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 21, 2019, 12:49:34 AM
Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D

You've never had a video call with someone on a different continent and it's night time there while it's day time for you?

I only talked about the contradiction between RE supposedly theory and the sun 'delay' at equinox.
Globe model is impossible for such view.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 21, 2019, 12:51:00 AM
No, they do exist.
I can attest to that from first hand experience travelling over seas and needing to change my watch/phone over, as well noticing the sun is up at a completely different time.

I can also attest to it with skype calls to people over seas, and with computers needing time zones to accurately tell the time.

Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D
No, solar time does exit.
The fact that watches don't follow it exactly is irrelevant.

A time zone for a region will roughly match solar time. But so there aren't billions of different time zones, it will not match perfectly.
It wont drift to follow the sun over the course of the year other than as an adjustment for daylight savings time, which doesn't even follow solar noon.
It wont vary as you move each meter east or west either.

Solar time zone exists but it cannot indicate the time petfectly.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 21, 2019, 01:17:48 AM
Enjoy the video  8)


I don't know about the rest of the earth, but time zones certainly do exist  on our many trips in the USA from Dallas to Los Angeles by car on the highways.

When you go west from Texas to California :
You set your clocks and watches back 1 hour. when you cross from Texas into New Mexico and go from Central Daylight  Time Zone to Mountain Daylight Time Zone.
Arizona stays on Mountain Standard Time the entire year,  so you change to Mountain Standard Time when you cross from New Mexico to Arizona part of the year.
Arizona is on Mountain Standard Time Zone  and California is on Pacific Daylight Time Zone part of the year so you don't reset your watches and clocks part of the year.
Otherwise you set your watches and clocks back 1 hour when you cross from Arizona to California from Mountain Standard Time to Pacific Standard Time.
That might seem a bit complicated and confusing to an outsider but that's how it works.
I don't know if you are just joking......
But time zones DO exist.😁
How many time zones  are there in your country ?

Just some trivia on time zones.:
The old Concorde SST airplanes went so fast you got to New York before you left Paris according the local times in New York and Paris when going west.

Back in the old days of transatlantic steamships , in particular the Titanic, clocks were set ahead or back so many minutes according to how many miles you were in that time zone each night  rather than just setting them ahead or back 1 hour when you go from one time zone to another. This has caused a lot of confusion to the Titanic Historians.

For example if you were going west and passed through half of a time zone the ship's clocks would be set back 30 minutes instead of 1 hour. This setting of the clocks was usually done at midnight. Of course GMT (Greenwch Mean Time) as it was called in Titanic's time is now called UTC ( Universal Time Coordinated ) remains the same wherever you are in the world. You just convert this to local time by the difference in hours such as UTC + 2 or UTC  - 2 for example for your time zone.

You can check your time in your time zone  and compare it with the times in other time zones time on www time gov .

It might be interesting to compare local times of all the users on line on this forum of those in different parts of the world.
At UTC or GMT of 01:08 AM or 01:08 hours  just after midnight on the morning of Friday, July 19, 2018 in London, England, UK
Here in Irving, Texas, USA it is 8:08 PM or 20:08 hours Central Daylight Savings Time (CDST) on the evening of  Thursday, July 18, 2019
Any others ?

If time zones exists but confusing, is it okay to say (solar) time zones doesn't exist?

We have three time zones with irregular pattern due to the sun altitude and the dome refraction.

September 2018

5:41 AM // 11:45 AM // 17:48 PM

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/indonesia/jakarta?month=9&year=2018


March, 2019

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/indonesia/jakarta?month=3&year=2019

5:56 AM // 12:00 AM // 18:03 PM


Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 21, 2019, 01:43:39 AM
The sun delay is the evidence.
Only evidence that you don't understand time zones or are just trolling.

Just what do you think the issue is?

Solar time zone exists but it cannot indicate the time petfectly.
Solar time is separate from time zones.
Solar time is the perfect time based upon the sun, which does rarely matches the time as done normally with time zones.
Solar time will apply to a specific longitude, not a large zone.
If you move just a mm to the east or west it will change solar time.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 08:54:41 AM
Would solar time and standard time be the same at some point within that time zone ?
For example,  would  solar time and standard time be the same at the center of a standard time zone ?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 21, 2019, 03:27:47 PM
Would solar time and standard time be the same at some point within that time zone ?
For example,  would  solar time and standard time be the same at the center of a standard time zone ?
It is unlikely to be the centre, and due to Earth's elliptical orbit and axial tilt, the exact point would drift on a day to day basis.
For example, lets look at the UK and ignore DST.
Currently it is the same for Worlingham, near the east cost. On December 21st last year it was the same for Uxbridge in west London. On the 21st of March you would have to leave the UK and go off the east cost, but not too far off
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 21, 2019, 09:04:15 PM
There was an error in my previous post.
Atlanta is in the Eastern and not the Central Time Zone .
A better example would be a Montgomery, Alabama -  Odessa,  Texas telephone conversation.
They are at extreme edges of the Central Time Zone.
Both would have the same clock time ( CST ) but the solar times would be different.
And of course UTC/GMT is always the same.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: SomeDutchGuy on July 22, 2019, 05:59:19 AM
In the Netherlands there is sometimes argument that we are in the wrong timezone. A lot of people feel that our timezone should be the same as England. I can relate to that, we are currently in the same time zone as for example Germany and Poland. The latter is 700 km to our east.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 22, 2019, 10:46:24 AM
In the Netherlands there is sometimes argument that we are in the wrong timezone. A lot of people feel that our timezone should be the same as England. I can relate to that, we are currently in the same time zone as for example Germany and Poland. The latter is 700 km to our east.

There have been many readjustments of time zone boundaries since Standard Time Zones came into existence.
For example, Georgia and Florida were once in the Central Time Zone in the U.S.A..
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Themightykabool on July 22, 2019, 12:36:13 PM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: SomeDutchGuy on July 22, 2019, 01:56:25 PM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

So, time travel is possible after all  ;)
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 22, 2019, 10:44:05 PM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

So, time travel is possible after all  ;)

But in this case I suppose  you might consider it so when crossing the International Date Line.
Going one way you skip ahead into tomorrow and going the other way you skip back into yesterday.
After re-considering it I edited this for the possibility of the " time travel " connection.

If you are on a ship and cross from one time zone or another or even cross the International Date Line you are unaware of any changes. The time when the ship will cross the date line has been previously calculated so this is the only way you will
know when you will cross it. As best I remember there was just a note on the ship's "  Plan Of The Day " when the ship would pass over the IDL at a certain time on a certain day.

This maybe a bit off-topic but it does have something to do with crossing time zones.
In this case crossing the International Date Line.
I have been reading up on this and finding reports of Naval Ships having elaborate " Crossing The Line " initiation ceremonies.
But all of the ships I sailed on had none of them of any kind.
Are there any other active or ex-Navy persons who might comment on their experiences ?
Were the fact of the lack of ceremonies rare exceptions ?
This was during peace times.
Crossed the International Date Line a total of 6 times on 3  " cruises " (Going and coming to and from California and Japan)
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 23, 2019, 02:20:45 AM
No.Not in this case . If you are on a ship and cross from one time zone or another or even cross the International Date Line you are unaware of any changes. The time when the ship will cross the date line has been previously calculated so this is the only way  you will
 know when you will cross it.
Time travel is possible.
If you don't believe me, come back in 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Crutchwater on July 23, 2019, 07:43:05 AM
Danang must be on metric time...
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 24, 2019, 01:17:45 AM
In the Netherlands there is sometimes argument that we are in the wrong timezone. A lot of people feel that our timezone should be the same as England. I can relate to that, we are currently in the same time zone as for example Germany and Poland. The latter is 700 km to our east.

It's all about Phew FE map.

(https://gwebangethome.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/DbiujFxU0AAETFo-1.jpeg)

By the way, 700 km is between what cities?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 24, 2019, 01:22:48 AM
Would solar time and standard time be the same at some point within that time zone ?
For example,  would  solar time and standard time be the same at the center of a standard time zone ?

For globe model it's supposed to be so. But reality says there is no pure alignment between time and sun position, even on equator at equinox.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 24, 2019, 01:31:04 AM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

Really?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 24, 2019, 01:32:28 AM
Danang must be on metric time...

Actually I'm on my way. :')
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: SomeDutchGuy on July 24, 2019, 02:40:25 AM
In the Netherlands there is sometimes argument that we are in the wrong timezone. A lot of people feel that our timezone should be the same as England. I can relate to that, we are currently in the same time zone as for example Germany and Poland. The latter is 700 km to our east.

It's all about Phew FE map.

(https://gwebangethome.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/DbiujFxU0AAETFo-1.jpeg)

By the way, 700 km is between what cities?

700 km between Amsterdam and Gorzow (just across the border). Distance Amsterdam to Warschau is about 1100 km.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 24, 2019, 03:41:18 AM
For globe model it's supposed to be so. But reality says there is no pure alignment between time and sun position, even on equator at equinox.
No it isn't supposed to be. It is supposed to be an approximation, with governments free to make it offset if they want to.

The alignment will also shift during the year, as I pointed out before. The elliptical orbit and axial tilt will cause it to vary throughout the year.
This means the locations where the solar time aligns with the the local time/time zone will vary over time.
I have shown examples where it will line up at a particular day.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Themightykabool on July 24, 2019, 02:57:47 PM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

Really?

didn't you?
I thought you had.
if not i apologize.
But ok let's double check then.

if on a plane, you fly from New York City to Seattle.
You cross 3 time zones.
if you had a stop watch, started it when you left NYC, would you expect 3hrs of travel should be added to the total?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 24, 2019, 10:21:33 PM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

Really?

didn't you?
I thought you had.
if not i apologize.
But ok let's double check then.

if on a plane, you fly from New York City to Seattle.
You cross 3 time zones.
if you had a stop watch, started it when you left NYC, would you expect 3hrs of travel should be added to the total?

A new born baby can answer that..  Hahaha...
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 24, 2019, 10:25:45 PM
For globe model it's supposed to be so. But reality says there is no pure alignment between time and sun position, even on equator at equinox.
No it isn't supposed to be. It is supposed to be an approximation, with governments free to make it offset if they want to.

The alignment will also shift during the year, as I pointed out before. The elliptical orbit and axial tilt will cause it to vary throughout the year.
This means the locations where the solar time aligns with the the local time/time zone will vary over time.
I have shown examples where it will line up at a particular day.

So sorry, I didn't concentrate when typing the post.
Generally, globe model cannot answer such observation.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on July 25, 2019, 12:17:43 AM
Generally, globe model cannot answer such observation.
Why not?
It matches quite well with what the globe model predicts.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Themightykabool on July 25, 2019, 12:20:31 AM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

Really?

didn't you?
I thought you had.
if not i apologize.
But ok let's double check then.

if on a plane, you fly from New York City to Seattle.
You cross 3 time zones.
if you had a stop watch, started it when you left NYC, would you expect 3hrs of travel should be added to the total?

A new born baby can answer that..  Hahaha...

and the answer is...?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 25, 2019, 09:50:26 AM
If it is any help in explaining time zones, here is a example of part of a trip I have taken many times.

I leave Amarillo, Texas at 12:00 Noon, Central Standard Time
I reset the trip odometer on my car to 0.0 miles
The travel distance between Amarillo, Texas and the Glenrio, New Mexico Visitor Center at the Texas-New Mexico State Line is 72.7 Miles and the travel time is 1 Hour, 7 minutes
I arrive at the Travel Center at 1:07 PM Central Standard Time
As I am entering the Mountain Standard Time Zone going west, I set my watch back 1 hour to 12:07 PM Mountain Standard Time
The travel distance between the Visitor Center and Tucumcari, New Mexico is 40.4 miles and the travel time is 39 minutes
I arrive at Tucumcari at 12:46 PM Mountain Standard Time
I have traveled a  total of 113.1 Miles and my total time travel time has been 1 hour and 46 minutes from Amarillo to Tucumcari.

Going east or west, the actual travel distance  (113.1 Miles) and the actual travel time ( 1 hour and 46 minutes )} would always be the same.

But going east , I would set my watch ahead 1 hour at the state line.
If I left Tucumcari at 12:00 Noon Mountain Standard Time , I would arrive at the Visitor Center at 12:39 PM Mountain Standard Time and set my watch ahead 1 hour to 1:39 PM Central Standard Time entering Texas  and arrive at Amarillo at 2:46 PM Central Standard Time.



I hope this might explain how time zones work on an actual trip.
If it didn't just muddy up the waters, my apologies.  :-)

Source for distances and times from "distances between us cities " website

I might add that somewhere, and at some location and at some time, solar time and standard time in that time zone agree....Thanks, JackBlack !  :-)
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Themightykabool on July 25, 2019, 11:26:43 AM
Most people know.
Just wondering if danag knows.
In a prrvipus post he complained that a flight went for hrs and hrs but the time of arrival seemingly didnt change.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 25, 2019, 12:13:33 PM
Most people know.
Just wondering if danag knows.
In a prrvipus post he complained that a flight went for hrs and hrs but the time of arrival seemingly didnt change.

The actual flight time, or road time, or however you travel that it takes to go from one point to another doesn't change whether you flew, drove or walked.
But the clock time would change depending on how many time zones you passed between those points and which way you were going
- east or west -  as shown in the examples in my previous post.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Themightykabool on July 25, 2019, 12:34:43 PM
Yes
We know.
Not sure if danag knows.
Please confirm, danang.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: kopfverderber on July 25, 2019, 12:54:51 PM
Iīd say smart phones are your best bet if you get confused with time zones and you donīt know where you are, what time is it or where is the next bar.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Themightykabool on July 25, 2019, 01:58:28 PM
OMFG people.
thank you for all your input but i'm trying to confirm if danang knows how it works.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on July 25, 2019, 05:44:51 PM
Danag already previously admitted he thought crossing a timezone would literally mean time had elapsed.
Seriously.
This is who youre arguing with.

Really?

didn't you?
I thought you had.
if not i apologize.
But ok let's double check then.

if on a plane, you fly from New York City to Seattle.
You cross 3 time zones.
if you had a stop watch, started it when you left NYC, would you expect 3hrs of travel should be added to the total?

A new born baby can answer that..  Hahaha...

and the answer is...?

"Coba kita bertanya pada rumput yang bergoyang"

"Let's ask to the swaying grass"

~ Ebiet G Ade ~ (Berita Kepada Kawan)
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 26, 2019, 05:59:07 PM
No, they do exist.
I can attest to that from first hand experience travelling over seas and needing to change my watch/phone over, as well noticing the sun is up at a completely different time.

I can also attest to it with skype calls to people over seas, and with computers needing time zones to accurately tell the time.

Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D
No, solar time does exit.
The fact that watches don't follow it exactly is irrelevant.

A time zone for a region will roughly match solar time. But so there aren't billions of different time zones, it will not match perfectly.
It wont drift to follow the sun over the course of the year other than as an adjustment for daylight savings time, which doesn't even follow solar noon.
It wont vary as you move each meter east or west either.

Solar time zone exists but it cannot indicate the time petfectly.

As has been explained in another post,  at some time and at some location within a  time zone solar time and time zone agree perfectly.
And, I should hope by now that danang realizes that time zones DO exist.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Lonegranger on July 27, 2019, 03:46:09 PM
International time zones work fine, just ask the millions of air passengers and crew who fly between them every day of the year. If there were a problem I think someone would have noticed.
https://www.countries-ofthe-world.com/world-time-zones.html

Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Googleotomy on July 27, 2019, 09:12:13 PM
International time zones work fine, just ask the millions of air passengers and crew who fly between them every day of the year. If there were a problem I think someone would have noticed.
https://www.countries-ofthe-world.com/world-time-zones.html
They work just fine, too, for those who travel by sea or land .
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Apokalypt on July 28, 2019, 12:34:59 AM
International time zones work fine, just ask the millions of air passengers and crew who fly between them every day of the year. If there were a problem I think someone would have noticed.
https://www.countries-ofthe-world.com/world-time-zones.html
They work just fine, too, for those who travel by sea or land .

That just means that the whole world is part of the conspiracy (well, except the 4-5 flat earther here who are to woke). Wake up!
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Greg's Frog on August 01, 2019, 05:03:22 PM
If time zones don't exist, it would be day for everyone on Earth or night. TF?

I went on a flight to Dallas recently, 3 hours flight. The plane departed then landed like an "hour" (can't remember the EXACT times) later because of the time difference from where I live on the west coast to Dallas. Hope that's not confusing I don't think I explained that well.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Bullwinkle on August 01, 2019, 11:09:04 PM
Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D

Things alter through time. Allow moments to coagulate into news worthy snippets.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on August 03, 2019, 06:05:19 PM
My main point is:

In equinox, there is no alignment between the sun positions and its supposedly time.

Therefore, the globe model is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on August 03, 2019, 06:08:41 PM
Solar time zones ain't exist. Unless the watches are set up with changing speeds over time all the time.  ;D

Things alter through time. Allow moments to coagulate into news worthy snippets.

What snippets are they?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on August 03, 2019, 06:35:49 PM
In equinox, there is no alignment between the sun positions and its supposedly time.
No, there is alignment, it just isn't perfect.

As time zones are wide and based upon political borders and for ease of conversion are typically in 1 hour increments, they will not magically line up all across the time zone.
At best you get a single line of longitude having it line up.

The location that lines up will also drift throughout the year, and as far as time zones are concerned, the equinox is not special, especially as there are 2 of them, and the sun isn't in the same location for both.

Here is a diagram of an analemma, showing the position of the sun at noon (time zone based, without daylight savings) over a year.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Analemma_Earth.png/800px-Analemma_Earth.png)
Which point in this diagram do you think should line up, and why?

The only way in which this has anything to do with RE vs FE is that with the simplest FE models there is only a single time zone.

So no, this doesn't show any problem with the globe.

In fact, this variation over the year (which does happen) is predicted by the current scientific model of the universe.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on August 03, 2019, 06:46:44 PM
No, there is alignment, it just isn't perfect.

One hour sun delay on northern hemiplane is kinda "offside" for the globe model. The delay is too long time.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on August 03, 2019, 06:50:12 PM
One hour sun delay on northern hemiplane is kinda "offside" for the globe model. The delay is too long time.
Where?
Have you seen what the globe model predicts and how that compares to the time zone and reality?
Chances are it is just the time zone is off, likely for political reasons.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: Danang on August 04, 2019, 06:13:00 PM
Copenhagen's next equinox on September 2019: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/denmark/copenhagen?month=9&year=2019
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on August 05, 2019, 02:00:13 AM
Copenhagen's next equinox on September 2019: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/denmark/copenhagen?month=9&year=2019
So not where the delay is off?
Where they use DST to artificially offset the time?
Again, nothing wrong with RE here.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: robinofloxley on August 05, 2019, 04:21:09 AM
The sun delay is the evidence.

I realise I'm a bit late to this party, but could someone please explain a) what delay? b) what do time zones have to do with equinoxes?

We're talking about delayed equinox by the sound of it. So...

September Equinox in Longyearbyen, Svalbard, Norway (very far north) is on Monday, 23 September 2019, 09:50 CEST or Monday, 23 September 2019, 07:50 UTC if you prefer.

September Equinox in Copenhagen, Denmark is on Monday, 23 September 2019, 09:50 CEST (07:50 UTC).

September Equinox in Ushuaia, Tierra del Fuego, Argentina (way down south) is on Monday, 23 September 2019, 04:50 ART (07:50 UTC).

(Source: https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/autumnal-equinox.html (https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/autumnal-equinox.html))

So according to time & date, the equinox occurs at 07:50 UTC everywhere and because we have time zones and DST, the local times differ from UTC. We do all trust time & date don't we, I thought even FLErfers did?

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on August 05, 2019, 04:33:53 AM
Am I missing something?
It isn't about the equinox directly, it is about local time vs solar time.
A simple part of that to focus on is solar noon.
If the time zones matched perfectly (which is impossible, except for specific locations at specific times)), then solar noon would occur at noon, or if you don't have that data, then sunrise would be x hours before noon and sunset would be that same x hours after noon.
But for Copenhagen, sunrise is roughly 7 am, 5 hours before noon, while sunset is 7 pm, roughly 7 hours after noon. Solar noon is at roughly 1 pm.

The local time, based upon the time zone, is 1 hour ahead of solar time.
That is what he is complaining about.
However, this is to be expected, considering they have daylight savings time, which puts the clocks 1 hour ahead.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: robinofloxley on August 05, 2019, 06:24:07 AM
Am I missing something?
It isn't about the equinox directly, it is about local time vs solar time.
A simple part of that to focus on is solar noon.
If the time zones matched perfectly (which is impossible, except for specific locations at specific times)), then solar noon would occur at noon, or if you don't have that data, then sunrise would be x hours before noon and sunset would be that same x hours after noon.
But for Copenhagen, sunrise is roughly 7 am, 5 hours before noon, while sunset is 7 pm, roughly 7 hours after noon. Solar noon is at roughly 1 pm.

The local time, based upon the time zone, is 1 hour ahead of solar time.
That is what he is complaining about.
However, this is to be expected, considering they have daylight savings time, which puts the clocks 1 hour ahead.

Ok, got it, thanks, so Danang thinks noon local time should equal local solar noon for anywhere across an entire time zone. Wow that's a strange idea.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: JackBlack on August 05, 2019, 02:05:36 PM
Ok, got it, thanks, so Danang thinks noon local time should equal local solar noon for anywhere across an entire time zone. Wow that's a strange idea.
Not only that but he also seems to think it should match for the entire year.

Even though Earth's elliptical orbit will cause some solar days to be shorter than others, due to the change in apparent speed of the sun as our orbital speed varies, and Earth's axial tilt causing the sun to not always move east to west, thus affecting its east to west motion as well and also causing a variation in the length of the solar day.
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: SomeDutchGuy on August 06, 2019, 01:24:39 PM
Am I missing something?
It isn't about the equinox directly, it is about local time vs solar time.
A simple part of that to focus on is solar noon.
If the time zones matched perfectly (which is impossible, except for specific locations at specific times)), then solar noon would occur at noon, or if you don't have that data, then sunrise would be x hours before noon and sunset would be that same x hours after noon.
But for Copenhagen, sunrise is roughly 7 am, 5 hours before noon, while sunset is 7 pm, roughly 7 hours after noon. Solar noon is at roughly 1 pm.

The local time, based upon the time zone, is 1 hour ahead of solar time.
That is what he is complaining about.
However, this is to be expected, considering they have daylight savings time, which puts the clocks 1 hour ahead.

Ok, got it, thanks, so Danang thinks noon local time should equal local solar noon for anywhere across an entire time zone. Wow that's a strange idea.

To be fair, time zones have changed in the past, at least in Europe I know. In The Netherlands, which is easiest for me to use as an example, time differentiated between cities up until 1909, indeed depending on solar noon at exactly 12:00. Between 1909 and 1937, a national time zone was created, Amsterdam Time UTC + 19m and 32,13 seconds. In 1937 this was changed to +20 minutes and in 1940, after the German invasion, it was changed to the time we currently have as UTC +1 (which was also Berlin Time but is now known as CET).
Title: Re: Time Zones Don't Exist (globe time system is messed up)
Post by: faded mike on August 19, 2019, 08:36:36 AM
After reading three lengthy descriptions of timezones by ge'rs ive mostly lost motivation to keep reading what would have otherwise been an interesting thread. Thanx spam artists.