The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Flat_Earther24 on February 05, 2019, 12:22:22 AM

Title: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Flat_Earther24 on February 05, 2019, 12:22:22 AM
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Crutchwater on February 05, 2019, 03:47:48 AM
It has a lampshade
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on February 05, 2019, 06:37:40 AM
It has a lampshade

Or a spot light that always looks like a ball.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Danang on February 05, 2019, 06:46:15 AM
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Crutchwater on February 05, 2019, 07:11:55 AM
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.

Demonstrably incorrect.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Danang on February 05, 2019, 08:58:06 AM
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.

Demonstrably incorrect.

Thank you... but please type it correctly >> "In Correct" :')
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on February 05, 2019, 10:49:05 AM
It has a lampshade
............And the thickness of the atmoplane.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Stash on February 06, 2019, 04:38:13 PM
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth

According to this visual, you would see the sun all the time:

Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on February 07, 2019, 01:56:50 AM
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth

According to this visual, you would see the sun all the time:



Nope. Because of light refraction you never see the sun at actual point.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on February 07, 2019, 02:01:50 AM
Nope. Because of light refraction you never see the sun at actual point.
Refraction still allows you to see the sun at a point, but higher than where it should be. This wouldn't prevent people from seeing the sun on a flat Earth.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: ChineseHobo123 on February 08, 2019, 03:38:16 AM
If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
because the sun rotates around it and when it has gone out of view it is because it has gone under the edge.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on February 08, 2019, 12:55:55 PM
because the sun rotates around it and when it has gone out of view it is because it has gone under the edge.
So you go for the old school FE model where the sun goes below Earth?
In that case everywhere would have the same timezone, whereas in reality the sun is visible at different locations at different times.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: rabinoz on February 08, 2019, 02:57:21 PM
because the sun rotates around it and when it has gone out of view it is because it has gone under the edge.
So you go for the old school FE model where the sun goes below Earth?
In that case everywhere would have the same timezone, whereas in reality the sun is visible at different locations at different times.
That sounds like Sandokhan's "cosmology" from "The Book of the Luminaries":
https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1952743#msg1952743

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1651574#msg1651574

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1726000#msg1726000

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/v940iyc4mrp0l3c/Sandokhan%27s%20Enoch%20Cosmology.jpg?dl=1)

Many of the chapters of the book of Enoch have been falsified at a later date: the chapters which included the true details about the apocalypse were removed, and replaced with texts which were not part of the original narrative.

True chapters: 4-9 (with the exception of the Mt. Hermon reference), 10, 14-36, 39-63, 66-70, 71-83 (book of the Luminaries), 93-104.
Here's a bit more on Enoch The Book of Enoch and the Flat Earth by Dr. Danny R. Faulkner on March 11, 2018 (https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/book-enoch-and-flat-earth/)
And the relevant chapter in THE BOOK OF THE COURSES OF THE HEAVENLY LUMINARIES, The Sun. CHAPTER LXXII. (https://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe075.htm)
Then more on that ancient cosmology: The Gates Cosmology of the Astronomical Book of Enoch, Eshbal Ratzon Tel Aviv University
 (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276082323_The_Gates_Cosmology_of_the_Astronomical_Book_of_Enoch?enrichId=rgreq-ac6e70694819ed3def46fb6e2378bd47-XXX&enrichSource=Y292ZXJQYWdlOzI3NjA4MjMyMztBUzo1NTUyNzUyMzc0NDU2MzJAMTUwOTM5OTM0MTcyOQ%3D%3D&el=1_x_3&_esc=publicationCoverPdf)
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Themightykabool on February 08, 2019, 03:02:54 PM
Also

Rab already answered this in disput of janes attempt to asnwer.
The discussion involved the thickness of air limiting how far you can see thru the "haze".
Yet we can see stars on the horizon.
Similarly a low moon.
So the whole thing is bunk.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on February 08, 2019, 06:54:17 PM
Also

Rab already answered this in disput of janes attempt to asnwer.
The discussion involved the thickness of air limiting how far you can see thru the "haze".
Yet we can see stars on the horizon.
Similarly a low moon.
So the whole thing is bunk.

Also

One of the things I do not understand is the issue of the horizon on a flat earth.
I have asked the question several times , but so far I have failed to get answers (especially missing. are any from any FE).
The questions are :
(1) What is the definition or description of what the horizon is on a flat earth ?
(2) Where is the horizon on a flat earth ?
(3) Is the horizon on a flat earth  always at some fixed distance from an observer ?
(4) If the distance to the horizon is not fixed on a flat earth,  what would affect the estimates of measurements and how would they be made ?
One of the problems that puzzle me is this question about the distance an observer could see being limited  by ''the thickness of the atmoplane'' . It would seem it would be impossible to see the horizon on a flat earth.
Any and all answers would be appreciated.From my somewhat limited experience at having been at sea, I have observed the horizon and have answers to what I have seen ,  which is definite proof that the earth is not flat.

In reference to rabinoz  comment on seeing stars at the horizon clearly :
Survivors of the Titanic disaster, seated in their lifeboats, reported they saw. ''Stars rising and setting on the horizon.''
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on February 08, 2019, 07:05:59 PM
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.

What if this is  at sunrise,  on a clear, sunny, cloudless day ?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on February 08, 2019, 07:12:05 PM
It has a lampshade

Either  a  Lampshade or some kind of reflector, mirror or lens as in a spotlight .
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Themightykabool on February 09, 2019, 12:53:47 AM
Dont forget
The haze magically disappears if you go up.
If you were like googlet and you servced navy or were a pirate, then you know the crows nest was up high to see past the curve.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JoeP on February 09, 2019, 12:53:57 PM
Also

Rab already answered this in disput of janes attempt to asnwer.
The discussion involved the thickness of air limiting how far you can see thru the "haze".
Yet we can see stars on the horizon.
Similarly a low moon.
So the whole thing is bunk.

Also

One of the things I do not understand is the issue of the horizon on a flat earth.
I have asked the question several times , but so far I have failed to get answers (especially missing. are any from any FE).
The questions are :
(1) What is the definition or description of what the horizon is on a flat earth ?
(2) Where is the horizon on a flat earth ?
(3) Is the horizon on a flat earth  always at some fixed distance from an observer ?
(4) If the distance to the horizon is not fixed on a flat earth,  what would affect the estimates of measurements and how would they be made ?
One of the problems that puzzle me is this question about the distance an observer could see being limited  by ''the thickness of the atmoplane'' . It would seem it would be impossible to see the horizon on a flat earth.
Any and all answers would be appreciated.From my somewhat limited experience at having been at sea, I have observed the horizon and have answers to what I have seen ,  which is definite proof that the earth is not flat.

In reference to rabinoz  comment on seeing stars at the horizon clearly :
Survivors of the Titanic disaster, seated in their lifeboats, reported they saw. ''Stars rising and setting on the horizon.''
Regarding the horizon: If the atmosphere was completely transparent and the surface of the Earth had no imperfections, and we could resolve tiny things then the horizon would be infinitely far away. However none of these approximations are true. When you look out to sea, the horizon is where the sky appears to meet the water. You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere. Imagine the horizon as consisting of two lines; the theoretical horizon at infinity, and the point on the surface of the sea where the atmosphere starts to affect your view. Between these lines, the atmosphere's effect gradually increases as you go up, creating a blurred effect. Except these lines are normally under 0.01 degrees apart, which our vision can't resolve, so we see a clear line.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on February 09, 2019, 01:39:06 PM
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on February 09, 2019, 02:37:20 PM
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: inquisitive on February 09, 2019, 02:43:35 PM
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
How would sextants work with a flat earth, they use the position of the horizon.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on February 09, 2019, 04:07:51 PM
Dont forget
The haze magically disappears if you go up.
If you were like googlet and you servced navy or were a pirate, then you know the crows nest was up high to see past the curve.

You can always see things on the surface of the sea as long as they are between you and the horizon. You can see farther to the horizon but only things between you and the horizon, if you are higher up, as in the crow's nest. But you can only see things farther than the horizon if they are higher above the horizon, such as the tops of the masts on a ship or the tops of buildings on the land beyond the horizon.But since you are looking up, you are looking through a small slice of the atmosphere and not across as looking horizontally.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: rabinoz on February 09, 2019, 05:03:40 PM
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
How would sextants work with a flat earth, they use the position of the horizon.
Exactly!
Have a look at this post by a part-time sailor with no axe to grind re flat/Globe issue:
Quote from: mathscinotes
Correcting Sextant Measurements For Dip (http://mathscinotes.com/2015/10/correcting-sextant-measurements-for-dip/)
altitude
The angular distance of a celestial object above an observer's horizontal plane . There are published tables of the altitudes of various celestial objects. However, it is difficult to obtain a stable horizontal reference on a moving ship. The horizon provides a very stable reference and we can use a sextant to accurately measure the altitudes of celestial objects with respect to the horizon. Figure 2 shows the relationship between the horizontal and the horizon. The are related through the angle called dip.
(https://i2.wp.com/mathscinotes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/DipPhoto.jpg)
Figure 2: Illustration of Dip With Respect to Horizontal
dip of the horizon
Dip of the horizon is the the angular depression of the horizon below the horizontal plane. If we were taking sights on a stable land site, we could measure altitudes using  a theodolite with its horizontal established using a bubble level. At sea, however, nothing is stable except the horizon. We use a sextant at sea to measure the altitude of a celestial object with respect to the horizon and then use our dip calculation to change the altitude reference from the horizon to the horizontal.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Celestial navigators have long known that the horizon falls below the local horizontal by this "angle of dip".
Above a few hundred metres altitude there is no need for sextants or theodolites to observe it.
A good spirit level or even a carefully calibrated smart phone will show it. Here's a video on that but excuse the down under bit.

Critical Think lives near Brisbane, as I do, and can't help his Aussie accent or humour ;):

Globling teaches Antonio Subirats a better lesson in horizon drop by Critical Think
The "nitty-gritty" starts at about 2:15.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: MouseWalker on February 09, 2019, 06:36:47 PM
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.
and at sun set , sun rise under the clouds.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JoeP on February 10, 2019, 05:22:31 AM
You see it as a clear cut line, but it's actually pretty fuzzy if you look with a telescope due to the atmosphere.
That depends highly upon the atmospheric conditions. You can easily have it as a very clear line, even with a telescope, with parts of objects obscured by it.
So that explanation clearly doesn't work.

The distance you can see to the horizon is often so very small that atmospherics have very little effect on it, so that most of the time the horizon is observed as a very definite and clear line.
For example a person standing on the shore or sitting in a small rowboat at or near the level of the sea can only see about 2 miles to the horizon. A lookout in a crow's nest can see about 10 miles to the horizon. Atmospherics have very little  effect on the clearness of the horizon at those distances.

On the other hand if the earth was flat , since there would be no curvature of the earth,  since you should be able to see an infinite distance and the  "atmoplane" would affect how clear you could see the horizon.
However , once again :
(1)  If the earth was flat, where would the horizon be ?
(2) If the earth was flat, how would you estimate the distance to the horizon ?
The horizon isn't a physical point on the surface of the water, it's a theoretical limit. In a perfect world, the distance to the horizon would be infinity. However, due to surface and atmospheric imperfections, the visible horizon can be either above or below the theoretical horizon. It should be fairly self explanatory as to how it can appear above, but here's a diagram to show how 'dip' is created at sea:
(https://i.imgur.com/ySKnYdX.png)
Small ripples nearer to the observer are able to cast incredibly long 'shadows' where the sea's surface is hidden. These allow for the effect of the atmosphere to grow from negligible to the point where sea looks like sky, creating the illusion that there is a clear cut line.
The thousands of ripples in the sea fill in the gaps to the point where the observer sees a solid horizon line. The sky directly above this line is in fact just very blurry sea (and perhaps some mirage effect going on too).
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on February 11, 2019, 12:04:04 PM
The horizon isn't a physical point on the surface of the water, it's a theoretical limit. In a perfect world, the distance to the horizon would be infinity. However, due to surface and atmospheric imperfections, the visible horizon can be either above or below the theoretical horizon.
Again, the atmosphere is clearly not the issue. We can clearly see objects beyond the horizon, with the lower sections of them obscured, even with a clear line at the horizon.
If the atmosphere was going to be the cause, we wouldn't see that.

Small ripples nearer to the observer are able to cast incredibly long 'shadows' where the sea's surface is hidden. These allow for the effect of the atmosphere to grow from negligible to the point where sea looks like sky, creating the illusion that there is a clear cut line.
The thousands of ripples in the sea fill in the gaps to the point where the observer sees a solid horizon line. The sky directly above this line is in fact just very blurry sea (and perhaps some mirage effect going on too).
It is actually the distant ripples.
The near ripples are far too close and cast practically no shadow (unless your eyes are below their height). The far more distant ones then have a much smaller angle to them and thus cast long shadows.But they obscure very little height.


Perhaps you can provide a picture of an object, like a boat, beyond the horizon, clearly showing why the bottom is obscured (some times to quite a large extent)?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: zohan on June 09, 2019, 01:11:23 PM
Sunrives = Sun Arrives.
From where?
From above the clouds.
and at sun set , sun rise under the clouds.

Above or below the clouds?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 09, 2019, 01:39:17 PM
The horizon isn't a physical point on the surface of the water, it's a theoretical limit. In a perfect world, the distance to the horizon would be infinity. However, due to surface and atmospheric imperfections, the visible horizon can be either above or below the theoretical horizon.
Again, the atmosphere is clearly not the issue. We can clearly see objects beyond the horizon, with the lower sections of them obscured, even with a clear line at the horizon.
If the atmosphere was going to be the cause, we wouldn't see that.

Again and again, atmosphere is a part of the issue.

If atmosphere would not the part of the issue as I marked with red so why you had mentioned it by the blue line? You are contradicting with yourself. Then you are using so called management to warn me to not mention you.

You are clearly using angry globularist managemet team in your benefits, mister Jackinoz.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Themightykabool on June 10, 2019, 04:22:34 PM
Haha
How many simultaneuous battles can rab have with wise?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 06:22:15 PM
Haha
How many simultaneuous battles can rab have with wise?
Where do I come into this ????
The last post I made on this thread was Reply #23 on: February 10, 2019, 10:03:40 AM and that wasn't to the wise one.
Should I feel left out ;D?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Themightykabool on June 10, 2019, 09:13:26 PM
Whoops
I meant jackb.
Wise wrote jackinoz.
I had a brain fart.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: rabinoz on June 10, 2019, 10:00:02 PM
Whoops
I meant jackb.
Wise wrote jackinoz.
I had a brain fart.
That's OK. Wise wouldn't know Arfa from Marfa and does his best to pass on his ignorance.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 11, 2019, 02:27:18 AM
Whoops
I meant jackb.
Wise wrote jackinoz.
I had a brain fart.
That's OK. Wise wouldn't know Arfa from Marfa and does his best to pass on his ignorance.
Spamming with low content the thread is reported. I wonder what does your slave girlster will do. Your insultings and ctattering does not help your case.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: rabinoz on June 11, 2019, 05:08:40 AM
Whoops
I meant jackb.
Wise wrote jackinoz.
I had a brain fart.
That's OK. Wise wouldn't know Arfa from Marfa and does his best to pass on his ignorance.
Spamming with low content the thread is reported. I wonder what does your slave girlster will do. Your insultings and ctattering does not help your case.
I've been warned :( and I'm sorry for insulting you, but I find your continual referring to jackinoz and JackBlack is an alt of rabinoz (or vice-versa) also demeaning and insulting.

So what about you ceasing such claims too - deal :)?


Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 11, 2019, 05:21:10 AM
Whoops
I meant jackb.
Wise wrote jackinoz.
I had a brain fart.
That's OK. Wise wouldn't know Arfa from Marfa and does his best to pass on his ignorance.
Spamming with low content the thread is reported. I wonder what does your slave girlster will do. Your insultings and ctattering does not help your case.
I've been warned :( and I'm sorry for insulting you, but I find your continual referring to jackinoz and JackBlack is an alt of rabinoz (or vice-versa) also demeaning and insulting.

So what about you ceasing such claims too - deal :)?

I think this is not the issue. Can we return the topic?

The topic isn't why you are not give me up. If we respect each other then our problems will be solved. But you don't respect me at all and wait me to respect you. Look at the issue. All the issues are fulled with your anger about me. Whenever I write something to somewhere you/jack/oranotherclone starts to mention me by the words "bullshit, BS, baseless..." and till me give up to write anything you are doing it insistently. Why? What is your problem with me? Just give me up. John Davis, space cowgirl and many moderators have warned you to leave me alone but you are not listening it at all. This is not a gentlemen behaviour. But whenever I have decide to reply all your statements then you are starting to fight against me by using boydster's moderators powers.  "Hey wise! Stop to spamming!" Where is spamming but all the mentions and replies to statements?

I show respect who respects me. I've talked off the topic because I've replied your off the topic mention.

I've explained many times that sun's bending and angular function causes we see sunset or sunrising. Have you anything to talk about these arguments, other than motivating the boydster against me?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: rabinoz on June 11, 2019, 05:49:15 AM
I show respect who respects me. I've talked off the topic because I've replied your off the topic mention.

I've explained many times that sun's bending and angular function causes we see sunset or sunrising.
Where have you explained that? There is no way I can remember where everybody claims to explain everything.
And simply because you have "explained it many times" does not mean that your explanation is correct.

These forums are for discussing and debating explanations like that.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 11, 2019, 07:20:38 AM
People, don't be harsh on Wise.
Please.
He is putting big effort into this.
(Unlike some other Flat earthers.)
Instead of attacking him, try to help him increase his knowledge.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on June 11, 2019, 01:59:08 PM
I've explained many times that sun's bending and angular function causes we see sunset or sunrising. Have you anything to talk about these arguments, other than motivating the boydster against me?
No you haven't.
You have repeatedly asserted that light bending somehow does it but have failed to explain how.
Instead I have explained how the standard downwards refraction of light by the atmosphere makes objects appear higher.
This means it wont make the sun appear to set and instead make it harder for the sun to set.
Likewise it wont allow the sun to illuminate objects from below while the sun is above.

So if you want to talk about it start trying to explain how the light is bent upwards which is what is needed to make the sun appear to set and make objects get illuminated from below while the sun is above.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 14, 2019, 05:44:51 AM
Quote
Atmospheric refraction of the light from a star is zero in the zenith,
less than 1′ (one arc-minute) at 45 apparent altitude, and still only 5.3′ at 10 altitude;
it quickly increases as altitude decreases, reaching 9.9′ at 5 altitude, 18.4′ at 2 altitude,
and 35.4′ at the horizon;
all values are for 10 C and 1013.25 hPa in the visible part of the spectrum.
(from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction))

Obviously, this can't cover required 26.56 DEGREES required to see sunset at "6000 miles away" while Sun is still 3000 miles above the ground.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on June 14, 2019, 10:03:01 AM
I may be missing something, but is the question at hand is something like this ? :
"If the earth is flat  how can you not see the sun from anywhere on earth at any time at any place on Earth ? ."
In other words " If the earth is flat how can you not see the sun for 24 hours every day whether you are in London or Honolulu  or any other place on Earth at morning, noon or night ? "

Obviously you can not do not do this which should be proof enough that the earth is not flat.

Also this question should  have  been proven enough times from  simply watching sunrise  and sunset  is proof enough that the earth is not flat.
 " The sun  appears to come from the East as a small dot at sunrise, gets bigger during the day and is biggest at noon, then gets
smaller the rest of the day until it becomes such a small dot in the west that it disappears and that's sunset. " , as the FE's would. say.
Just go outside your window sometimes and watch a sunrise and  sunset and observe how they really appear .
Sunrise and sunset are just two facts that prove the earth is not flat.....but there are so many other proofs that the earth is "round" or the globe that it really is.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 14, 2019, 11:49:21 AM
I am puting this image to here. Maybe works next a day.  :)

(https://i.resimyukle.xyz/QW6MLA.png)
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 14, 2019, 01:54:01 PM
I am puting this image to here. Maybe works next a day.  :)

(https://i.resimyukle.xyz/QW6MLA.png)

As you can see, not even your "adaptation" places Sun to the horizon for sunset.
To see Sun for sunset look 5005 km lower than "it is" this way, Dome has to be 5005 km thick, which is all the way from Sun to ground.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on June 14, 2019, 02:56:20 PM
I am puting this image to here. Maybe works next a day.  :)

That still doesn't help you explain sunsets.
The light is still coming downwards, and thus the sun still wouldn't be setting.
It should still be visible everywhere.

Considering you want to appeal to a dome so much, perhaps you can draw a diagram showing clearly where the dome is in relation to the entire FE, what shape the dome is and where the sun is in relation to all this. And how thick the dome is.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 16, 2019, 12:51:50 PM
I am puting this image to here. Maybe works next a day.  :)

(https://i.resimyukle.xyz/QW6MLA.png)

As you can see, not even your "adaptation" places Sun to the horizon for sunset.
To see Sun for sunset look 5005 km lower than "it is" this way, Dome has to be 5005 km thick, which is all the way from Sun to ground.

We are not talking about horizon. I see you are insisting to do wrong. Whats happened your theory of learning? This image was for show sun appears under real sun , not above it. here you can see the sun setting because the dome is inclined. I did not elaborate for that purpose. Look, you object to such a simple form. then what is your difference from image handicapped
jackblack?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on June 16, 2019, 02:42:16 PM
We are not talking about horizon.
Yes, this topic is technically why you can't see the sun from everywhere.
However that intrinsically ties into sunrise and sunset, where the sun is obstructed by the horizon.

Your image does not explain either (and relies upon pure fantasy), as I already pointed out.

Like I said, if you want to try and use this to address the topic you will need to provide far more details about your dome and FE model in general.
What is the shape of your dome? What is its thickness?
What is its refractive index? Where is the sun in relation to the dome?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 16, 2019, 08:46:27 PM
We are not talking about horizon.

You are talking about horizon.
You are trying to make people think that Sun gets lower than it is (closer to horizon) while in reality it is the other way around.
Real light bends down when enters the atmosphere, like in the original image, adding some "dome" will not make it bend up in reality, only in your wishes.

How thick your "dome" is supposed to be?
How high above the sea level?
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: robintex on June 16, 2019, 09:06:28 PM
We are not talking about horizon.

You are talking about horizon.
You are trying to make people think that Sun gets lower than it is (closer to horizon) while in reality it is the other way around.
Real light bends down when enters the atmosphere, like in the original image, adding some "dome" will not make it bend up in reality, only in your wishes.

How thick your "dome" is supposed to be?
How high above the sea level?

We keep asking these questions but get no answers.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 16, 2019, 09:58:43 PM
We are not talking about horizon.

You are talking about horizon.
You are trying to make people think that Sun gets lower than it is (closer to horizon) while in reality it is the other way around.
Real light bends down when enters the atmosphere, like in the original image, adding some "dome" will not make it bend up in reality, only in your wishes.

This is not the wish. This is according to flat earth model. All real FE models include dome and I've explained what dome causes.

Now you are talking opposite arguments depend on baseless. Because topic is already about light can not break to cause we see the sun under its real position. But I've proved it is so. Now you've turned the flat earth dome's being dream. If it was a dreaming so why are you here, to share my dreams?

Grow up man. Grow up and agree flat earth dome causes we see sun under it. Grow up, be an adult and stop to behave a rabblack. Teach moar! Only teaching makes you more adult.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: JackBlack on June 16, 2019, 11:22:35 PM
All real FE models include dome and I've explained what dome causes.
There are plenty of FE models without a dome, and they have no less claim to be real than yours.
You haven't really explained anything about the dome. Instead you have just asserted a few things and claimed it can magically solve all the problems.

Because topic is already about light can not break to cause we see the sun under its real position.
No. It is about why you can't see the sun at any time.
Even at midnight, the common FE models have the sun remain well above Earth at all time.
Even with a dome, you should still be able to see the sun.

Now how about you address the questions that have been asked about your dome?
How large is it?
How thick is it?
What is it made of?
Where is it in relation to Earth and the sun.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 17, 2019, 02:22:26 AM
Grow up man. Grow up and agree flat earth dome causes we see sun under it.

Speaking of "growing up", where is consistency in your claims?

Sometimes is Sun above the dome, sometimes is sun under it.

You are twisting parameters towards your wishes, and reality is "not important" to you at all.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 17, 2019, 03:14:36 AM
Grow up man. Grow up and agree flat earth dome causes we see sun under it.

Speaking of "growing up", where is consistency in your claims?

Sometimes is Sun above the dome, sometimes is sun under it.

You are twisting parameters towards your wishes, and reality is "not important" to you at all.

Reality what I say. You see sun stays underreal position of itself, not the dome. Your being unable to understand is your problem. Stop to drama and provide opposite arguments.
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 17, 2019, 03:59:50 AM
Reality what I say.

Nope. Reaity is what we see around us, not what you are trying to say. :)

You see sun stays underreal position of itself, not the dome. Your being unable to understand is your problem.

Oh, we all understand it much better than you would like it. :)

Stop to drama and provide opposite arguments.

Opposite to what?
Opposite to what you said few days ago, or to what you say today?
And nobody knows what will you say tomorrow. :)
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 17, 2019, 05:04:11 AM
Nope. Reaity is what we see around us, not what you are trying to say. :)
It is your reality. And the other one is my reality. Reality in my opinion what I say. Your denying my reality can not change my reality.
Oh, we all understand it much better than you would like it. :)
You seem a bunch of random guys.
Opposite to what?
Don not you read my writings?
Opposite to what you said few days ago, or to what you say today?
Did you see me mention what I said past days althought there is a recent issue?
And nobody knows what will you say tomorrow. :)
Nope. God knows. Like everytime you are a liar again. Stop to be front ot Devil and try to God's front.  :)
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: Macarios on June 17, 2019, 02:46:59 PM
Nope. Reaity is what we see around us, not what you are trying to say. :)
It is your reality. And the other one is my reality. Reality in my opinion what I say. Your denying my reality can not change my reality.
Oh, we all understand it much better than you would like it. :)
You seem a bunch of random guys.
Opposite to what?
Don not you read my writings?
Opposite to what you said few days ago, or to what you say today?
Did you see me mention what I said past days althought there is a recent issue?
And nobody knows what will you say tomorrow. :)
Nope. God knows. Like everytime you are a liar again. Stop to be front ot Devil and try to God's front.  :)

Ok, if God knows, how can we ask him? :)
Title: Re: If earth is flat how can you not see the sun from everywhere on the earth
Post by: wise on June 18, 2019, 01:23:12 AM
Nope. Reaity is what we see around us, not what you are trying to say. :)
It is your reality. And the other one is my reality. Reality in my opinion what I say. Your denying my reality can not change my reality.
Oh, we all understand it much better than you would like it. :)
You seem a bunch of random guys.
Opposite to what?
Don not you read my writings?
Opposite to what you said few days ago, or to what you say today?
Did you see me mention what I said past days althought there is a recent issue?
And nobody knows what will you say tomorrow. :)
Nope. God knows. Like everytime you are a liar again. Stop to be front ot Devil and try to God's front.  :)

Ok, if God knows, how can we ask him? :)

You can learn these methods from your clergy. There is no guarantee that he will answer when you ask questions. Because he has irresponsibility. make sure that judge in this court gives you the right to ask questions before asking the judge.