The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Debate => Topic started by: Iwillprovethistheorywrong on October 23, 2018, 06:03:14 AM

Title: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Iwillprovethistheorywrong on October 23, 2018, 06:03:14 AM
Feel free to post reasons why the earth ISN’T round. I will debunk your theories. This is only me debunking your theories, not a group of researchers. 😈Have Fun😈
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 23, 2018, 06:51:57 AM
You can read the forum to find evidence about the flat Earth.  What evidence do you want to debate?  You sound lazy like you don't want to do any work. 
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Lamaface on October 23, 2018, 09:06:36 AM
Feel free to post reasons why the earth ISN’T round. I will debunk your theories. This is only me debunking your theories, not a group of researchers. 😈Have Fun😈
Okay

Statement: the earth isn’t round because the earth is flat.

You go buddy
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Mikey T. on October 23, 2018, 02:32:31 PM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 23, 2018, 02:43:28 PM
Feel free to post reasons why the earth ISN’T round. I will debunk your theories. This is only me debunking your theories, not a group of researchers. 😈Have Fun😈
The earth isn't a Globe because:Show me the curvature!

 ;) No problem ;)!
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: round boye on October 24, 2018, 10:38:53 AM
Feel free to post reasons why the earth ISN’T round. I will debunk your theories. This is only me debunking your theories, not a group of researchers. 😈Have Fun😈
The earth isn't a Globe because:
  • The ocean horizon is flat and at eyelevel:
    (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6v1hjwm0q5pcy28/Ships%20wake%20disappearing%20over%20Horizon.jpg?dl=1)
    Ships wake disappearing over Horizon
             (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0thzfx6itaxum1w/Scarborough%20Beacon%2050%20mm%20lens%20-%20cropped.jpg?dl=1)
    Scarborough Beacon 50 mm lens

  • Distant buildings do not appear to lean backwards:
    (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4iuwuomu3mqzxu/CN%20Tower%20Toronto%20-%20from%2030%20km.jpg?dl=1)
    Toronto and CN Tower - from 30 km
             (https://www.dropbox.com/s/os1q6by27jirn62/CN%20Tower%20Toronto%20-%20from%2030%20km%20enlarged.jpg?dl=1)
    Toronto and CN Tower enlarged - from 30 km

  • And to finish off:
    (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8855/28157460972_7b1594065b_b.jpg)
Show me the curvature!

 ;) No problem ;)!
ok here:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6y5b8zeaij4fin/flat%20earth%20disproven.jpg?dl=1)
This is the exact same image you posted. No editing except for the red line, which is perfectly straight, down to the pixel.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: faded mike on October 24, 2018, 12:54:01 PM
Personally, I think that could be an ocean swell, but if the earth were spherical, would we really see a curved horizon if we saw the same distance in all ditrections?
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 24, 2018, 02:07:57 PM
Feel free to post reasons why the earth ISN’T round. I will debunk your theories. This is only me debunking your theories, not a group of researchers. 😈Have Fun😈
The earth isn't a Globe because:
  • The ocean horizon is flat and at eyelevel:
    (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6v1hjwm0q5pcy28/Ships%20wake%20disappearing%20over%20Horizon.jpg?dl=1)
    Ships wake disappearing over Horizon
             (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0thzfx6itaxum1w/Scarborough%20Beacon%2050%20mm%20lens%20-%20cropped.jpg?dl=1)
    Scarborough Beacon 50 mm lens

  • Distant buildings do not appear to lean backwards:
    (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4iuwuomu3mqzxu/CN%20Tower%20Toronto%20-%20from%2030%20km.jpg?dl=1)
    Toronto and CN Tower - from 30 km
             (https://www.dropbox.com/s/os1q6by27jirn62/CN%20Tower%20Toronto%20-%20from%2030%20km%20enlarged.jpg?dl=1)
    Toronto and CN Tower enlarged - from 30 km

  • And to finish off:
    (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8855/28157460972_7b1594065b_b.jpg)
Show me the curvature!

 ;) No problem ;)!
ok here:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6y5b8zeaij4fin/flat%20earth%20disproven.jpg?dl=1)
This is the exact same image you posted. No editing except for the red line, which is perfectly straight, down to the pixel.
Not convinced! Can you guarantee the camera used has absolutely no distortion, down to the pixel? Here is a photo I took with a normal 50 mm lens and a little higher resolution.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/do10vtkwdtu7jwl/Scarborough%20Beacon%2050%20mm%20lens%20-%20higher%20res.jpg?dl=1)
Scarborough Beacon 50 mm lens - higher res, cropped top and bottom.
And the rest?
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: round boye on October 24, 2018, 02:21:55 PM
Feel free to post reasons why the earth ISN’T round. I will debunk your theories. This is only me debunking your theories, not a group of researchers. 😈Have Fun😈
The earth isn't a Globe because:
  • The ocean horizon is flat and at eyelevel:
    (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6v1hjwm0q5pcy28/Ships%20wake%20disappearing%20over%20Horizon.jpg?dl=1)
    Ships wake disappearing over Horizon
             (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0thzfx6itaxum1w/Scarborough%20Beacon%2050%20mm%20lens%20-%20cropped.jpg?dl=1)
    Scarborough Beacon 50 mm lens

  • Distant buildings do not appear to lean backwards:
    (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p4iuwuomu3mqzxu/CN%20Tower%20Toronto%20-%20from%2030%20km.jpg?dl=1)
    Toronto and CN Tower - from 30 km
             (https://www.dropbox.com/s/os1q6by27jirn62/CN%20Tower%20Toronto%20-%20from%2030%20km%20enlarged.jpg?dl=1)
    Toronto and CN Tower enlarged - from 30 km

  • And to finish off:
    (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8855/28157460972_7b1594065b_b.jpg)
Show me the curvature!

 ;) No problem ;)!
ok here:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6y5b8zeaij4fin/flat%20earth%20disproven.jpg?dl=1)
This is the exact same image you posted. No editing except for the red line, which is perfectly straight, down to the pixel.
Not convinced! Can you guarantee the camera used has absolutely no distortion, down to the pixel? Here is a photo I took with a normal 50 mm lens and a little higher resolution.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/do10vtkwdtu7jwl/Scarborough%20Beacon%2050%20mm%20lens%20-%20higher%20res.jpg?dl=1)
Scarborough Beacon 50 mm lens - higher res, cropped top and bottom.
And the rest?
Nah. Just wanted to knock one bit off of your evidence.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 25, 2018, 12:04:13 AM
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Not convinced! Can you guarantee the camera used has absolutely no distortion, down to the pixel? Here is a photo I took with a normal 50 mm lens and a little higher resolution.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/do10vtkwdtu7jwl/Scarborough%20Beacon%2050%20mm%20lens%20-%20higher%20res.jpg?dl=1)
Scarborough Beacon 50 mm lens - higher res, cropped top and bottom.
And the rest?
Nah. Just wanted to knock one bit off of your evidence.
But I don't accept that you did "knock one bit off of . . . . evidence".
That being that the horizon from a height of say 2 m is so flat that you could not detect any curvature.
Admittedly I did not take the ship's wake photo but I did take the "Scarborough Beacon" one, so know the details of it.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: WestToEastEastToWest on October 26, 2018, 09:38:31 AM
Personally, I think that could be an ocean swell, but if the earth were spherical, would we really see a curved horizon if we saw the same distance in all ditrections?

No on a Spherical earth if you stand on a boat in the middle of the ocean and look in all directions the horizon should be flat. The curvature would be a way from you and objects should disappear below the horizon as they travel away from your location.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 26, 2018, 11:55:06 AM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 26, 2018, 12:13:09 PM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Themightykabool on October 26, 2018, 12:39:51 PM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

Also brings the gravity vs ball question back into play.
How does earth stay plate-like?
Gravity on a finite plate of this size would crush itself back into a plate.
Or the earth would be spinning so fast to flatten out you would see a huge difference in weight at the outter rim due to angular forces.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on October 26, 2018, 12:48:29 PM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

Also brings the gravity vs ball question back into play.
How does earth stay plate-like?
Gravity on a finite plate of this size would crush itself back into a plate.
Or the earth would be spinning so fast to flatten out you would see a huge difference in weight at the outter rim due to angular forces.

Gravity isn't unidirectional.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: JackBlack on October 26, 2018, 03:38:25 PM
How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning.
All modern FE models which accept the reality that the sun is always above some point on Earth, and the reality of time zones.

You need a FE model where the sun goes below Earth to allow sunsets, without going below Earth to keep some section of Earth illuminated.
Also, the sun always need to be setting, i.e. going below Earth, while simultaneously be rising, i.e. coming out from below Earth.

All FE models are "wackadoodle" and none are theories as they are unable to explain reality and are easily refuted.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 26, 2018, 04:36:09 PM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 26, 2018, 07:16:51 PM
There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.
But the hours of night and day do not work like that.
Your two-sided earth would seem to imply that whole hemisphere had daylight at the same time but the region of daylight moves gradually around the earth as in this animation.

Sunrise & Sunset Animated
Or on the "live  map" at Live map of where it is daytime, twilight or night time by Dominic Ford (https://in-the-sky.org/twilightmap.php)

Your "flat earth" seems to be getting close to ;) JRoweSkeptic's ;) DET.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: JackBlack on October 26, 2018, 07:35:33 PM
There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.
And as we can move between these sides, and as the change is gradual, lets go and smooth out that transition between the top side and under side of Earth.
Oh hey, it's round.

RE, always sneaking in when people try to make FE models match reality...
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on October 26, 2018, 10:00:24 PM
Wow... as pressed the plane earth. And what you know actually about a full-sphere? Why as fishes you are silent that the moon is twisted round its pivot-center always to show one side. And satellites are never twisted!
Which of you believing in a full-sphere will answer this simple question?
Do you want to prove that the earth not plane? Then at first obyasnit behavior of the moon! All of you got! With the nonsenses about the earth - a full-sphere. You have sharover no obyasneniye of such behavior of the moon. Therefore doesn't follow is proud and to philosophize.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 27, 2018, 07:44:31 AM
Wow... as pressed the plane earth. And what you know actually about a full-sphere? Why as fishes you are silent that the moon is twisted round its pivot-center always to show one side. And satellites are never twisted!
Which of you believing in a full-sphere will answer this simple question?
Do you want to prove that the earth not plane? Then at first obyasnit behavior of the moon! All of you got! With the nonsenses about the earth - a full-sphere. You have sharover no obyasneniye of such behavior of the moon. Therefore doesn't follow is proud and to philosophize.

Wow. Are you using a random word generator? With some Russian thrown in for fun? Or maybe a bargain-basement Russian-to-English translator program? Hey, we're on the same side of the flat Earth debate, but I still can't figure out what you're trying to say. Except that I googled obyasnit and obyasneniye and they appear to be Russian words.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 27, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
Wow... as pressed the plane earth. And what you know actually about a full-sphere?
I know that the earth's being a full sphere is the only shape that fit's current observations, including the obvious NASA SCIENCE, SOLAR SYSTEM EXPLORATION: Face of Earth
(https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/system/resources/detail_files/696_dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif)
Source: NASA/NOAA
Quote from: Heavenly Breeze
Why as fishes you are silent
That is incorrect! Many fish do many noises.

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze
that the moon is twisted round its pivot-center always to show one side. And satellites are never twisted!
That is incorrect!
Most artificial satellites do rotate on their axis so as to keep the required side facing the earth as I carefully explained in another post.
And many of the moons of the planets in the solar system are also "tidally locked" to their parent body even the planet Mercury is tidally locked to the sun, but in a 3:2 ration.

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze
Which of you believing in a full-sphere will answer this simple question?
Do you want to prove that the earth not plane? Then at first obyasnit behavior of the moon! All of you got! With the nonsenses about the earth - a full-sphere. You have sharover no obyasneniye of such behavior of the moon.
Incorrect! You did not previously ask for an explanation of such behaviour for the moon but I do have an explanation for the moon.

The moon's rotation was slowed down initially by what are known as tidal effects causing friction within the moon.
But this effect can only bring the moon's rotation almost to its orbital period and never quite phase-lock it.
This final phase-locking is due gravitational gradient effects as described in that Russian paper you linked to.
Put in simple terms the (very slightly) heavier side of the moon faces the earth.

Quote from: Heavenly Breeze
Therefore doesn't follow is proud and to philosophize.
I'm neither being proud nor philosophising but simply explaining why things as they are.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: WestToEastEastToWest on October 29, 2018, 04:56:13 AM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.

Interesting. Where is this edge which we travel round to reach the Southern side of the earth? Surely this is the proof FE needs? Presumably we can stand on the edge and watch the sun double back round?
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 29, 2018, 05:51:25 AM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.

Interesting. Where is this edge which we travel round to reach the Southern side of the earth? Surely this is the proof FE needs? Presumably we can stand on the edge and watch the sun double back round?
This magellanclavichord two-sided earth is getting a bit too close to the fake JRoweSkeptic's fake Dual Earth Theory for comfort!
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 29, 2018, 12:44:26 PM
Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.

Interesting. Where is this edge which we travel round to reach the Southern side of the earth? Surely this is the proof FE needs? Presumably we can stand on the edge and watch the sun double back round?

Probably, yes, but it would be very dangerous, as you could fall off.

Why go through the pretence?  A simple viewing of a sunset destroys all FE models.  That happens daily.

How does a sunset destroy "all" FE models? The sun goes underneath the Earth at night and comes back up in the morning. Even the Aztecs knew this, though they believed the sun had to fight off demons underneath the Earth so they killed people to give the sun strength for its battles, which was even more wacky than the round-Earth theory.

Sunsets are sometimes very pretty. I love a good sunset. (And I'm glad the sun doesn't actually have to fight off demons at night.) But the sun going under the Earth does not disprove all FE models. It only disproves the wackadoodle FE theories that claim that the sun doesn't go underneath at night.  ;)

If the sun goes underneath the Earth, there would be no daylight on the earth for a period of time for anyone.  That doesn't happen, so.... back to sunset destroys FE Models.

There would be daylight for the people living on the under-side of the Earth.

Interesting. Where is this edge which we travel round to reach the Southern side of the earth? Surely this is the proof FE needs? Presumably we can stand on the edge and watch the sun double back round?
This magellanclavichord two-sided earth is getting a bit too close to the fake JRoweSkeptic's fake Dual Earth Theory for comfort!

I don't know what JRoweSkeptic's Dual Earth Theory is. While I'm not willing to dismiss out of hand a theory that there are two Earths, or a hundred Earths, that's not part of my view. The universe is a very big place*, so there are probably millions of Earth-like planets out there, though I'm quite sure none would be exact replicas of our Earth.

*In an episode of the old BBC radio series, "The Goon Show" they are in Africa searching for King Solomon's mines and they're lost. One of them says "Do you know where we are?" The other responds "Yes. We're in Africa." The first says, "But Africa's a very big place." The other says "Then don't stand so close to me!"

And while I'm off on this tangent, in the same episode, one of them asks "How much ground can you cover in a day?" And the other, who is very fat, says, "I can cover three square yards standing still."

I loved that show.

Anyway, the universe is a very big place so there's room for a lot of planets, including Earth-like ones.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: JackBlack on October 29, 2018, 01:04:41 PM
I don't know what JRoweSkeptic's Dual Earth Theory is.
To summarise, it is a pile of nonsense where they claim Earth consists of 2 flat discs, separated but held together by magic.

While I'm not willing to dismiss out of hand a theory that there are two Earths, or a hundred Earths, that's not part of my view. The universe is a very big place*, so there are probably millions of Earth-like planets out there, though I'm quite sure none would be exact replicas of our Earth.
So you accept Earth is a planet. So do you also accept other planets are round, or do you think they are flat as well?

Do you accept the scientific reasoning behind there being so many planets, which would necessitate these planets being round?
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 29, 2018, 04:56:49 PM
I don't know what JRoweSkeptic's Dual Earth Theory is.
To summarise, it is a pile of nonsense where they claim Earth consists of 2 flat discs, separated but held together by magic.

While I'm not willing to dismiss out of hand a theory that there are two Earths, or a hundred Earths, that's not part of my view. The universe is a very big place*, so there are probably millions of Earth-like planets out there, though I'm quite sure none would be exact replicas of our Earth.
So you accept Earth is a planet. So do you also accept other planets are round, or do you think they are flat as well?

Do you accept the scientific reasoning behind there being so many planets, which would necessitate these planets being round?

So are JRoweSkeptic's two Earths back to back, or side-by side? Or stacked like pancakes one above the other? Because if the latter, there might be no limit to the number. Until the stack gets so high it falls over, like Yertle standing on the backs of his subjects.

As for the shape of other planets, I've never been to any of them so I don't know. I don't see why the incomprehensible number of other planets in the universe (billions of billions if not more) would necessitate their being round. But I don't know. Some flatheads might feel they have all the answers to everything. I don't.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: JackBlack on October 29, 2018, 05:38:03 PM
So are JRoweSkeptic's two Earths back to back, or side-by side? Or stacked like pancakes one above the other?
Back to back. From a side on point of view, the "north" side faces upwards, the "south" side faces downwards.

As for the shape of other planets, I've never been to any of them so I don't know.
You don't need to go to them to see their shape. In fact, being on them is one of the worst ways to see their shape as the size is overwhelming. Instead the best way to see the shape is from afar. By viewing the planets from afar, observing them rotate and observing shadows cross them we can conclude that they are round.

I don't see why the incomprehensible number of other planets in the universe (billions of billions if not more) would necessitate their being round.
It is due to how they form.
They don't just pop into existence. Instead they form from the collision of rocks and are held together with gravity. Gravity causes them to collapse into spheres.
It is only by discarding the method of formation and gravity that we could conclude that some planets might be flat. But by discarding that we lose the majority of the evidence for planets other than those that can be directly observed. The only evidence we would have left is that stars have periods where they get darker, in a periodic pattern which is consistent with a planet transiting across it, but no reason as to why the planet would transit in the first place, especially with a regular period.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 29, 2018, 06:13:39 PM
I don't know what JRoweSkeptic's Dual Earth Theory is. While I'm not willing to dismiss out of hand a theory that there are two Earths, or a hundred Earths, that's not part of my view.
JRowe's "Dual Earth Theory" is really a single earth but with the two hemiplanes back-to-back.
He has his own forum on Proboards: JRowe,  Dual Earth Theory (http://dualearththeory.proboards.com/) and "Follow Dual Earth Theory with Tapatalk for Android".

And many threads and posts here, such as:
this is one of the reasons i now prefer dual earth theory. along with circumpolar stars and flight times, it seems unlikely that one hemisphere is significantly larger than the other. having antarctica at the rim is the most likely of all the alternatives for the classical flat earth map, due to how few planes fly near there, but due to the effect it would have on half the world, that clearly isn't possible.
from the sun's behavior, we can conclude the two hemispheres must be of similar dimension. if the world is inhabited on the top and the bottom, then this allows for what we observe:
(http://i.imgur.com/NIH09NC.jpg)
the sun (or rather suns, both mirrors of one another) rotates around the exterior of the earth, the rim being instead at the equator. the paths are fairly simple, though details are complex. they keep circling, moving higher or lower depending on the season, never both visible as they exist at opposite sides.
dual earth theory seems, to me, to answer a number of questions: including that of the sun.

i go into more detail on the general overview, if you are interested, here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258 (https://server4.kproxy.com/servlet/redirect.srv/slxv/shdpupchxkjtyowiddhu/szab/p1/forum/index.php?topic=63027.msg1669258#msg1669258)

Yeah, but I don't get it how you move from one hemisphere to the other in your model. If the other hemisphere is the bottom one that should be somehow felt, no? You go to the edge of the top hemisphere and then you crawl backwards to the bottom? I am confused. Wouldn't it have a clear edge in your model?

it comes down to aetheric transmission. we would feel it, if not for the speed of aether: it's instantaneous. there's nothing there to experience. further, light is transmitted also, which lets you see, for example, the bottom, when you stand on the edge of the top.
the obvious questions are answered in the post i linked to.
The two "hemiplanes" have layouts something like:
And JRoweSkeptic has his Dual Earth Theory with the two hemispheres something like:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/vjd3bio3vdcdthz/Azimuthal%20Map%20Northern%20Hemiplane%20-%20sml.jpg?dl=1)
Map Northern Hemiplane, DET
             
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nb5gvpjemhqd1zt/Azimuthal%20Map%20Southern%20Hemiplane%20-%20sml.jpg?dl=1)
Map Southern Hemiplane, DET

But IMHO as in JackBlack's JRowe's DET is total hogwash and is just his unsuccessful compromise between a flat-earth and the Globe.
He aimed for the best-of-both-worlds and missed by a country mile.

Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 30, 2018, 06:17:00 AM
Okay. So JRowe has answers that do not fit some of the evidence. Fair enough. As I have said, I'm new to this and clearly there are many FETs I've not heard of yet. I don't have any answers. It's clear that everybody here is smarter than I am, flatheads and globeheads alike. Really, I have far more questions than answers. I'm getting the impression that other flatheads feel they understand how everything works, and some believe there's some kind of huge coverup, though in response to one of my earliest questions here, none have offered a convincing motive for said coverup. It looks to me more like two competing groups of theories, RE theories and FE theories, and the FE theories are the minority view, rather than a conspiracy to cover up the truth. It's a pitfall that's easy to fall into when you adhere to a minority theory, to say that everyone else knows you're right but are maliciously refusing to admit it. I think most people are pretty up-front with their views and that they're not conspiring against each other, but just having a disagreement.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: JackBlack on October 31, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
I'm getting the impression that other flatheads feel they understand how everything works, and some believe there's some kind of huge coverup
I think it is more a case of they don't want to admit there are any problems because doing so weakens their justification for FE. They need the massive coverup to explain why basically everyone supports a RE. If there wasn't a massive conspiracy, and the evidence supported a FE, most people would be supporting a FE.

It looks to me more like two competing groups of theories, RE theories and FE theories
It is more akin to there being 2 competing groups. There are the REers, with a single RE theory, and then FEers, with numerous contradictory FE models to try and explain various parts of reality.

It's a pitfall that's easy to fall into when you adhere to a minority theory, to say that everyone else knows you're right but are maliciously refusing to admit it.
It is better characterised as cognitive dissonance, which effects people regardless of how widely held the belief is. If you get conflicting evidence or people claiming they don't believe you find some way to dismiss it.
This even applies to beliefs held by very large groups of people, such as the plenty of religious people that assert everyone knows their particular god exists (or at least some god) and those that claim otherwise are simply denying it.
It allows them to escape having to justify their claims or thinking there is not sufficient reason to believe it.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Son of Orospu on October 31, 2018, 02:38:10 PM
JackBlack is literally the Grinch who stole Christmass. 
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on October 31, 2018, 03:47:29 PM
JackBlack is literally the Grinch who stole Christmass.

I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)

I'm getting the impression that other flatheads feel they understand how everything works, and some believe there's some kind of huge coverup
I think it is more a case of they don't want to admit there are any problems because doing so weakens their justification for FE. They need the massive coverup to explain why basically everyone supports a RE. If there wasn't a massive conspiracy, and the evidence supported a FE, most people would be supporting a FE.

We flatheads do face serious problems with our theory, but rather than crying about conspiracies and posting videos on YouTube that make us seem like weirdos, we're better off admitting that we don't have all the answers.

It looks to me more like two competing groups of theories, RE theories and FE theories
It is more akin to there being 2 competing groups. There are the REers, with a single RE theory, and then FEers, with numerous contradictory FE models to try and explain various parts of reality.

It's true that we are a diverse group with very different theories, but round-Earthers have lots of different theories also. Theirs are certainly less diverse than ours, but they don't agree, for example, on what the center of the supposed ball is like, or what causes the magnetic field. And in my lifetime they changed their minds about tectonic plates, and in cosmology they changed their minds about things like expansion and even the idea that there are other galaxies. They still have no idea what dark energy is, though it apparently comprises 70% (?), 80% (?) of the universe, and they don't even have any idea what dark matter is, though it is 95% of what's left. With uncertainties like that, it makes sense to believe that the Earth is flat, and that when they finally figure out dark energy and the Grand Unified Field theory they'll understand why.

It's a pitfall that's easy to fall into when you adhere to a minority theory, to say that everyone else knows you're right but are maliciously refusing to admit it.
It is better characterised as cognitive dissonance, which effects people regardless of how widely held the belief is. If you get conflicting evidence or people claiming they don't believe you find some way to dismiss it.
This even applies to beliefs held by very large groups of people, such as the plenty of religious people that assert everyone knows their particular god exists (or at least some god) and those that claim otherwise are simply denying it.
It allows them to escape having to justify their claims or thinking there is not sufficient reason to believe it.

So cognitive dissonance can affect us all, flatheads and globeheads alike.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: JackBlack on October 31, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)
But for added fun with English, literally can mean figuratively.
Isn't it great?

We flatheads do face serious problems with our theory, but rather than crying about conspiracies and posting videos on YouTube that make us seem like weirdos, we're better off admitting that we don't have all the answers.
The issue is that when you do that, people will ask then why should people think Earth is flat? (especially with your latter justification for FE).

It's true that we are a diverse group with very different theories, but round-Earthers have lots of different theories also. Theirs are certainly less diverse than ours, but they don't agree, for example, on what the center of the supposed ball is like, or what causes the magnetic field. And in my lifetime they changed their minds about tectonic plates, and in cosmology they changed their minds about things like expansion and even the idea that there are other galaxies. They still have no idea what dark energy is, though it apparently comprises 70% (?), 80% (?) of the universe, and they don't even have any idea what dark matter is, though it is 95% of what's left.
The issue is how these are connected to shape.
REers just have the one globe, with the continents and cities and the like in the one set of positions. Sure, there are various versions of accuracy, such as a perfect sphere or an oblate spheroid, but no one claims the sphere is perfect rather than simply an approximation.
FEers have multiple different models. Some have the NP at the centre. Others have the south pole. Others have roughly 0,0.
The expansion of the universe is basically irrelevant to if Earth is round or not. Yes, there are issues with how people like tying RE to basically all of science with FE having lots of different aspects going against mainstream science, but a lot is still relevant to the shape of Earth.

Yes over time they improve the theory, but it is one consistent theory which is improved and then accepted (note this even basically works for the first RE model being developed from the ancient FE model). For FE, they basically throw out one model and start again with a completely different one.

With uncertainties like that, it makes sense to believe that the Earth is flat, and that when they finally figure out dark energy and the Grand Unified Field theory they'll understand why.
No it doesn't. Firstly, this ties back into FEers not having all the answers.
Your argument is effectively:
There are 2 competing models, X and Y.
X can't explain Z.
Therefore Y is true.

The issue is that Y can't explain it either.

In order for that to be a valid argument you need Y to actually be able to explain it.
In all cases that I know of, RE explains things which FE can't, rather than the other way around.
That is why it makes sense to accept Earth is round and no sense to accept Earth is flat, and why FEers are so opposed to admitting there are issues with the FE model or things FE can't explain.

If you think you have the answer, feel free to provide it.

So cognitive dissonance can affect us all, flatheads and globeheads alike.
Yes. Even REers can make an argument they think is good while being horribly flawed, and then completely ignore the issues with it pretending the FEers just reject it because they don't want to admit Earth is round.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: rabinoz on October 31, 2018, 06:56:15 PM
JackBlack is literally the Grinch who stole Christmass Christmas ;).
And I thought I was? I'm so disappointed. I'll try harder.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Heavenly Breeze on October 31, 2018, 08:57:08 PM
JackBlack
- I was disappointed in your last responses. Very much I was disappointed. You as that Don Quixote fighting against windmills.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: magellanclavichord on November 01, 2018, 06:32:02 AM


We flatheads do face serious problems with our theory, but rather than crying about conspiracies and posting videos on YouTube that make us seem like weirdos, we're better off admitting that we don't have all the answers.
The issue is that when you do that, people will ask then why should people think Earth is flat? (especially with your latter justification for FE).

Why should people think the Earth is flat? Because they like the idea. If they don't like the idea, they shouldn't think it. I'm not here to convince anybody. I actually came here to chat with other flat-Earthers, but it turned out that most of them are either incomprehensible, or limit themselves to short quips. Some of their posts don't seem to have any grammatical meaning. One or two show signs of mental illness in the disjointed character of their posts. And some go off on irrelevant tangents like moon-landing denial and conspiracy theories. Turns out, the globeheads are more interesting to talk to.

If you think you have the answer, feel free to provide it.

Good heavens, no! I have no answers. I think I admitted that before. (Maybe in a different thread?)
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: WestToEastEastToWest on November 01, 2018, 11:05:03 AM
I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)
But for added fun with English, literally can mean figuratively.


No, just no.
Title: Re: I Will Prove The Flat Earth Theory Wrong!!🌎🌍🌏
Post by: Unconvinced on November 02, 2018, 05:43:49 AM
I think you meant figuratively. If he was literally the Grinch, he'd be a fictional character.  ;)
But for added fun with English, literally can mean figuratively.


No, just no.

I’m with you on this one. 

I get that language changes over time, as common usage deviates from the dictionary definition.

But taking the one God damned word we use to distinguish between the two and flipping it is a crime against communication. Rhetorically speaking.