The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: rabinoz on September 15, 2018, 02:02:10 AM

Title: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 15, 2018, 02:02:10 AM
Have a look at this and see what you think:

Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!! SciManDan

Mark Sargent claimed that the scientists folded and could not answer.
It's far more likely that they were so ;D doubled up with laughter ;D that they simply could do nothing.

Or maybe just couldn't be bothered wasting their time with such ridiculous questions!

I really did think that Mark Sargent was smarter than that but, as they say in the classics, "you live and learn"!
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 15, 2018, 05:09:57 AM
"In tides moments, a cup of coffee shuts up astrophysicist's mouths" :o

(https://attorneyalexhernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_4728.jpg)
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 15, 2018, 05:27:23 AM
"In tides moments, a cup of coffee shuts up astrophysicist's mouths" :o

(https://attorneyalexhernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_4728.jpg)
Why? Probably most scientists prefer coffee or do you have another reason?

And that wasn't one of Mark Sargeant's points anyway.

I should have added:
Danang, if you want a debate on tides bring it on but be warned it is far more complex than simply the moon's "gravity lifting water".
So make your own thread of tides if you want to - but it has been done many times.

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Crutchwater on September 15, 2018, 10:19:09 AM
You can clearly see the tide coming up on the right side of the coffee cup,  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 15, 2018, 09:05:46 PM
You can clearly see the tide coming up on the right side of the coffee cup,  ;D ;D
And the horizon looks flat. Probably irrefutable proof for most FEers.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 16, 2018, 02:52:35 AM
Episode #2

A Flat Earth Semi Rant - The Greatest Story Mark Sargent Ever Told, SciManDan
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: wise on September 16, 2018, 08:30:25 AM
When I see the word "flat earth leader" have looked to see my name, but have disappointed.

When and who elected Mark Sargent as the leader, I don't remembers.

He need at least half of 700.000.000 votes of flat earth believers.

He is not the leader of flat earth but if you get fun, then ok.

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Unconvinced on September 16, 2018, 10:55:48 AM
"In tides moments, a cup of coffee shuts up astrophysicist's mouths" :o

(https://attorneyalexhernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_4728.jpg)

Are astrophysicists stumped by a wonky table?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 17, 2018, 02:10:16 AM
"In tides moments, a cup of coffee shuts up astrophysicist's mouths" :o

(https://attorneyalexhernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_4728.jpg)
Why? Probably most scientists prefer coffee or do you have another reason?

And that wasn't one of Mark Sargeant's points anyway.

I should have added:
Danang, if you want a debate on tides bring it on but be warned it is far more complex than simply the moon's "gravity lifting water".
So make your own thread of tides if you want to - but it has been done many times.

What Sargeant says about tides?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 17, 2018, 02:11:54 AM
You can clearly see the tide coming up on the right side of the coffee cup,  ;D ;D

You're right. Coffee tide is real.
So I won't look down RET anymore.  8)
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 17, 2018, 02:14:20 AM
"In tides moments, a cup of coffee shuts up astrophysicist's mouths" :o

(https://attorneyalexhernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_4728.jpg)

Are astrophysicists stumped by a wonky table?

They read books on the table, but forgot to see the actual reality.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Didymus on September 17, 2018, 03:21:09 AM
"In tides moments, a cup of coffee shuts up astrophysicist's mouths" :o

(https://attorneyalexhernandez.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_4728.jpg)

UA seems a bit wonky.
Maybe you have discovered SA?
Selective Acceleration? Situational Awareness?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 17, 2018, 04:06:41 AM
I wonder if didymus has read a post of mine about "the breathing earth" >> the earth surface moves up and down in various rates, at various places and various times.
This is the only logical model to explain -among others- tides phenomenon.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: WestToEastEastToWest on September 17, 2018, 05:10:59 AM
Huge coincidence that the tides are in sync with the position of the moon and their strength proportional to its distance. Perhaps the moon is making the earth breathe.....
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Crutchwater on September 17, 2018, 07:09:12 AM
I wonder if didymus has read a post of mine about "the breathing earth" >> the earth surface moves up and down in various rates, at various places and various times.
This is the only logical model to explain -among others- tides phenomenon.

So, constant earthquakes??

Got it. ;D
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Stash on September 17, 2018, 02:18:03 PM
Apparently, every 6 hours or so, every day, coincidentally in perfect unison with the orbit of the moon.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 17, 2018, 04:31:01 PM
I wonder if didymus has read a post of mine about "the breathing earth" >> the earth surface moves up and down in various rates, at various places and various times.
This is the only logical model to explain -among others- tides phenomenon.

So, constant earthquakes??

Got it. ;D
Don't ridicule Danang too much. Have a look at Earth tide (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_tide). You might be surprised at the size of the "earth tides" but noone notices because every we see goes east and west and up and down together.
Maybe Zetetes (Albert Smith) wasn't too far wrong with his " ;D ;D SEA-EARTH GLOBE AND ITS Monstrous Hypothetical Motions ;D ;D" except about the "hypothetical" part.

On the scale we are looking at the whole earth is little more than a huge sphere of viscous liquid - magma etc. Only the core can be considered nearly solid.

So, constant earthquakes but most are extremely small as the more solid bits of crust move almost as rigid bodies.
Quote
Effects
Further information: Tidal triggering of earthquakes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_triggering_of_earthquakes)
Volcanologists use the regular, predictable Earth tide movements to calibrate and test sensitive volcano deformation monitoring instruments. The tides may also trigger volcanic events.  Seismologists have determined that microseismic events are correlated to tidal variations in Central Asia (north of the Himalayas).[citation needed] The semidiurnal amplitude of terrestrial tides can reach about 55 cm at the equator which is important in GPS, VLBI, and SLR measurements. Also to make precise astronomical angular measurements requires knowledge of the Earth's rate of rotation (length of day, precession, and nutation), which is influenced by earth tides (so-called pole tide). Terrestrial tides also need to be taken in account in the case of some particle physics experiments.  For instance, at the CERN or SLAC, the very large particle accelerators were designed while taking terrestrial tides into account for proper operation. Among the effects that need to be taken into account are circumference deformation for circular accelerators and particle beam energy.

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 17, 2018, 05:17:10 PM
"Don't ridicule Danang too much"

>> He ain't rediculed me. He's just repented from RET.  8)
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 17, 2018, 05:27:49 PM
The earth is like a huge spaceship or accelerating rocket. There's machinery mechanism in it: a rotating "tide machinery" that stays somewhere under the ground.
I haven't found more convincing hypothesis than this one.
It takes a powerful camera than can capture realities under the ground, including the alledgely tide machinery.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: NotSoSkeptical on September 17, 2018, 08:04:53 PM
The earth is like a huge spaceship or accelerating rocket. There's machinery mechanism in it: a rotating "tide machinery" that stays somewhere under the ground.
I haven't found more convincing hypothesis than this one.
It takes a powerful camera than can capture realities under the ground, including the alledgely tide machinery.

So have you ever seen this tide machinery?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 17, 2018, 09:11:08 PM
The earth is like a huge spaceship or accelerating rocket. There's machinery mechanism in it: a rotating "tide machinery" that stays somewhere under the ground.
I haven't found more convincing hypothesis than this one.
It takes a powerful camera than can capture realities under the ground, including the alledgely tide machinery.
Irrelevant and off-topic. This thread is about the famous flat earth leader Mark Sargent and his 5 questions.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Smoke Machine on September 17, 2018, 11:14:09 PM
One by one, let's watch the five dominos fall.

Long distance photography. Mark says you can pull objects into view from farther than 50 miles (80.467 kilometres) across on the Earth surface, in any direction.

Like the presenter, I cant find any evidence of this. I noticed Mark didn't provide any evidence either...

This is why playing too many computer games is bad for you, kids....
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Smoke Machine on September 17, 2018, 11:56:10 PM
It all depends on your height, really.

Check out the Earth curvature calculator.

To even see the horizon at a distance of 50 miles away, you have to be 1663 feet in height from the ground.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 18, 2018, 02:44:14 AM
The earth is like a huge spaceship or accelerating rocket. There's machinery mechanism in it: a rotating "tide machinery" that stays somewhere under the ground.
I haven't found more convincing hypothesis than this one.
It takes a powerful camera than can capture realities under the ground, including the alledgely tide machinery.

So have you ever seen this tide machinery?

No I haven't.
But by clear logics, I've predicted a few things based on my model, i.e. UA, Phew FE etc. Some predictions have manifested as evidences, some else are still being waiting for survey/research.
What makes the earth's surface going up and down? As I mentioned before, I predicted there is machinery under the ground. What's the mechanism like?  My hypothesis: it's a mobile device with push and pull mechanism to the earth's surface. This device could be captured with sophisticated scanners. I dare those who have such scanner to prove or disprove my hypothesis.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Danang on September 18, 2018, 02:47:56 AM
The earth is like a huge spaceship or accelerating rocket. There's machinery mechanism in it: a rotating "tide machinery" that stays somewhere under the ground.
I haven't found more convincing hypothesis than this one.
It takes a powerful camera than can capture realities under the ground, including the alledgely tide machinery.
Irrelevant and off-topic. This thread is about the famous flat earth leader Mark Sargent and his 5 questions.

So sorry, Rab. But you can report me for spamming. In case my username will be banned, I will take a new username, and I've prepared the name : "DanangPhew"  8)
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on September 18, 2018, 03:12:04 AM
Irrelevant and off-topic. This thread is about the famous flat earth leader Mark Sargent and his 5 questions.
So sorry, Rab. But you can report me for spamming.
I wouldn't do that. I've no more authority here than you and ;) I've been guilty of that ;) often enough.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: frenat on September 18, 2018, 05:03:04 AM
The earth is like a huge spaceship or accelerating rocket. There's machinery mechanism in it: a rotating "tide machinery" that stays somewhere under the ground.
I haven't found more convincing hypothesis than this one.
It takes a powerful camera than can capture realities under the ground, including the alledgely tide machinery.
Irrelevant and off-topic. This thread is about the famous flat earth leader Mark Sargent and his 5 questions.

So sorry, Rab. But you can report me for spamming. In case my username will be banned, I will take a new username, and I've prepared the name : "DanangPhew"  8)
so you're admitting you expect to be banned and have a sock puppet ready. Sounds like a troll to me.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Xphilll on September 19, 2018, 02:21:58 PM
So besides Brotherhood's butthurt thoughts and Danangs irrelevencies, no flat earther care to object?
I mean this is a pretty compelling piece of debunkery here.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined - AGAIN!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 06, 2018, 03:10:42 AM
Have a look at this and see what you think:
<< See OP for this video >>
Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!! SciManDan

Mark Sargent claimed that the scientists folded and could not answer.
It's far more likely that they were so ;D doubled up with laughter ;D that they simply could do nothing.

Or maybe just couldn't be bothered wasting their time with such ridiculous questions!

I really did think that Mark Sargent was smarter than that but, as they say in the classics, "you live and learn"!
Now VoysovReason answers Mark Sargent's challenge.

Flat Earth Conference Debunked - Mark Sargent's Science Challenge, VoysovReason

So is VoysovReason's debunking better than SciManDan's debunking. Whatever, I think Mark Sargent's challenge is thoroughly answered.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Smoke Machine on October 06, 2018, 04:33:45 AM
Thanks for the new video, Rabinoz. I hadnt seen it yet. Much appreciated!

Mark Sargent appears to be sincere, but he has a hidden agenda.

As a professional computer game player he may have been brilliant, but as a self-taught scientist with absolutely no formal science training, he absolutely sucks. He also sucked years ago, when tackling the 9/11 world trade center conspiracy theories, with his high level computer game background.

Seriously, if he's so interested in geography, why isnt he doing a geography course? Oh, that's right, he's not, he's only interested in conspiracy theories. Someone is always conspiring, trying to con the masses, aren't they? ;)
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 06, 2018, 04:49:03 AM
Thanks for the new video, Rabinoz. I hadnt seen it yet. Much appreciated!

Mark Sargent appears to be sincere, but he has a hidden agenda.

As a professional computer game player he may have been brilliant, but as a self-taught scientist with absolutely no formal science training, he absolutely sucks. He also sucked years ago, when tackling the 9/11 world trade center conspiracy theories, with his high level computer game background.

Seriously, if he's so interested in geography, why isnt he doing a geography course? Oh, that's right, he's not, he's only interested in conspiracy theories. Someone is always conspiring, trying to con the masses, aren't they? ;)
I honestly did expect a little better from Mark Sargent, this "paragon" of the modern flat-earth movement.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Bullwinkle on October 06, 2018, 10:15:46 AM
Thanks for the new video, Rabinoz. I hadnt seen it yet. Much appreciated!

Mark Sargent appears to be sincere, but he has a hidden agenda.

As a professional computer game player he may have been brilliant, but as a self-taught scientist with absolutely no formal science training, he absolutely sucks. He also sucked years ago, when tackling the 9/11 world trade center conspiracy theories, with his high level computer game background.

Seriously, if he's so interested in geography, why isnt he doing a geography course? Oh, that's right, he's not, he's only interested in conspiracy theories. Someone is always conspiring, trying to con the masses, aren't they? ;)
I honestly did expect a little better from Mark Sargent, this "paragon" of the modern flat-earth movement.

No, you didn't.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Xphilll on October 06, 2018, 02:23:13 PM
I like the fact he is addressing a canadian audience but won't be bothered with metric conversion.
Still no comments from flat earthers?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 06, 2018, 02:39:31 PM
I honestly did expect a little better from Mark Sargent, this "paragon" of the modern flat-earth movement.
No, you didn't.
I'm sorry, Mr Bullwinkle, when I first viewed Mark Sargent's address at the FE convention I really did expect some less trivial questions from someone of his experience.

His questions were so easily debunked that it's quite laughable - still, I guess that's typical of most flat-earthers mentality.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Space Cowgirl on October 07, 2018, 03:28:11 PM
Why do you guys always expect us to defend Mark Sargent? If you want to talk to him, find out where he posts.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 07, 2018, 06:45:44 PM
Why do you guys always expect us to defend Mark Sargent? If you want to talk to him, find out where he posts.
I wouldn't expect you to defend the indefensible but he has, I believe, been referenced by John Davis a few times.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: gotham on October 07, 2018, 06:59:16 PM
Daniel of The FES is the person who took up and continued the so important legacy of FET with its research and perpetuation of purpose.

Until an official press release is offered by Daniel announcing a new leader, he continues to hold reign over all FEers.   
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 07, 2018, 09:00:53 PM
Daniel of The FES is the person who took up and continued the so important legacy of FET with its research and perpetuation of purpose.

Until an official press release is offered by Daniel announcing a new leader, he continues to hold reign over all FEers.   
I mean no disrespect to Daniel but saying that he "continues to hold reign over all FEers" is a gross exaggeration.
Of course, I respect his leadership of this society but the society at TFES.org seems to be lead by Parsifal.

But these two societies represent just a few of the flat-Earthers spread over the Globe.
Then there is the International Flat Earth Research Society headed by Eric Dubay and I could go on and on.

Then apart from the many other flat-earth groups there is the FEIC that the very prominent flat-earth proponent was addressing in those videos.
Quote
The 2018 Flat Earth International Conference (https://fe2018.com/about/about-us/) (FEIC) is the 2nd annual conference hosted by Kryptoz Media. FEIC features presenters from various backgrounds and belief systems who have each made an impact on the larger Flat Earth community. FEIC is not in any way affiliated with the Flat Earth Society.
And the FEIC takes pains to stress "FEIC is not in any way affiliated with the Flat Earth Society.".

This place, I'm sorry to say, represents only a tiny fraction of the flat-earthers out there.

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Themightykabool on October 07, 2018, 09:59:17 PM
Daniel of The FES is the person who took up and continued the so important legacy of FET with its research and perpetuation of purpose.

Until an official press release is offered by Daniel announcing a new leader, he continues to hold reign over all FEers.   
I mean no disrespect to Daniel but saying that he "continues to hold reign over all FEers" is a gross exaggeration.
Of course, I respect his leadership of this society but the society at TFES.org seems to be lead by Parsifal.

But these two societies represent just a few of the flat-Earthers spread over the Globe.
Then there is the International Flat Earth Research Society headed by Eric Dubay and I could go on and on.

Then apart from the many other flat-earth groups there is the FEIC that the very prominent flat-earth proponent was addressing in those videos.
Quote
The 2018 Flat Earth International Conference (https://fe2018.com/about/about-us/) (FEIC) is the 2nd annual conference hosted by Kryptoz Media. FEIC features presenters from various backgrounds and belief systems who have each made an impact on the larger Flat Earth community. FEIC is not in any way affiliated with the Flat Earth Society.
And the FEIC takes pains to stress "FEIC is not in any way affiliated with the Flat Earth Society.".

This place, I'm sorry to say, represents only a tiny fraction of the flat-earthers out there.

And to rabs point -
https://expandingcircle.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/carnivore-support-group.jpg?w=604&h=451
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 08, 2018, 02:57:36 AM
Just to  ;) restore the balance ;) here are the "Top 10 Reasons to Believe That the EARTH IS FLAT":
His FET may differ slightly from that of this society.
He does, however, refer to Samuel Rowbotham, Charles K Johnson, Daniel Shenton and quotes from the great Flat Earth Theoretician Tom Bishop.

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Smoke Machine on October 09, 2018, 02:47:05 AM
Rabinoz, you cruel cruel bastard, posting that video up! ;) That entire video was like all your posts wrapped up in one presentation. Are you sure that isn't you presenting?

Is he exaggerating the numbers? 100 flat earth believers to 7 000 000 000 globe earth believers???????????

Hey, flat earth belief is at least benign. People are entitled to believe what they like, however illogical those beliefs may be.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 09, 2018, 04:37:28 AM
Rabinoz, you cruel cruel bastard, posting that video up! ;) That entire video was like all your posts wrapped up in one presentation. Are you sure that isn't you presenting?

Is he exaggerating the numbers? 100 flat earth believers to 7 000 000 000 globe earth believers???????????
I'd agree that he's grossly exaggerating with his "100 flat earth believers" and some of his FET might be wrong but who'd know?
It's hard to find two flat earthers that agree anyway! But, heck, the whole video's a "spoof".

Quote from: Sunset
Hey, flat earth belief is at least benign. People are entitled to believe what they like, however illogical those beliefs may be.
Sure, possibly "flat earth belief" itself "is . . . . . . .  benign" and "people are entitled to believe what they like".
It ceases to be so benign, however, when:
I could go on and on with many more that regularly post such videos and reading some of the comments is often more telling.

Now, I'll agree that most on this site are doing no harm and I'm more than willing to debate and discuss issues with them.
A couple might be labelled as "entertaining kooks" but I could name a few who aren't so benign.

Make no mistake, while this site serves a useful service, the Flat Earth Movement at large is a serious matter.
And the real problem is that deep down it's just a symptom of the failings in our modern education system, which does border on indoctrination.
Neil deGrasse Tyson has a lot to say on that important topic.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on October 09, 2018, 01:50:01 PM
As a professional computer game player he may have been brilliant
Or it may be just more bullshit.  I notice his bio doesn't actually say which game he was pro at - it seems pretty unlikely, especially 25 years ago.

I don't think he's particularly sincere - he just wants something to monetize on youtube, and flat earth was hot, so he got into that shit.  He'll quickly move on as people get bored of flat earth and move on to some other conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Smoke Machine on October 09, 2018, 03:06:53 PM
Jimmy the crab, you beat me to it. I also believe he'll move on to the next big conspiracy theory when this one goes flat, er, or in this case, round. What qualifications does professional computer game player hold? Oh, flat earth leader, or perhaps, getting the message out there for something else......

I wouldn't be surprised if his caper turns out to all be a promotional gimmick for his own computer game he's working on, titled, "Flat World."

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 09, 2018, 04:09:04 PM
Jimmy the crab, you beat me to it. I also believe he'll move on to the next big conspiracy theory when this one goes flat, er, or in this case, round. What qualifications does professional computer game player hold? Oh, flat earth leader, or perhaps, getting the message out there for something else......

I wouldn't be surprised if his caper turns out to all be a promotional gimmick for his own computer game he's working on, titled, "Flat World."
Maybe he could base it on Terry Pratchett's Discworld. It makes (almost) perfect sense.
(http://geeklyinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Great-ATuin.jpg)

Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" is a more coherent model than the one the Flat Earth Society presents but it is not like our world in a number of respects.

Here's the "Discworld Fan Club", You might learn something from Discworld Wiki (http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/Discworld) and for "serious study", you might read: Discworld Wiki, The Science of Discworld (http://discworld.wikia.com/wiki/The_Science_of_Discworld).

Have fun on Discworld.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: gotham on October 09, 2018, 05:08:15 PM
it is productive to see other FE interested sites on the net as long as their motivation is real and proper.

They help expose more people to FET.

However, our FES's are credited with continuing the official line of FET  Our combined voices are and will remain the go-to contributors of FE legacy.       
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 09, 2018, 05:38:49 PM
it is productive to see other FE interested sites on the net as long as their motivation is real and proper.
Of course the "motivation is real and proper".
One motivation is to show the total distortion of history by various popular flat-earth video presenters including Mark Sargent.
And another is pointing out how some flat-earth YouTube video presenters, the worst being Jeranism (Jeran Campanella), make vile emotive accusations against their opponents like their being "KNOWN LIARS? Killers? Masons? Nazis? Satan Worshipers? "

Quote from: gotham
They help expose more people to FET.
And I'll do my best to expose the evil side of many YouTube proponents of the flat-earth like Jeran Campanella and
the many incorrect and deceptive claims made by even prominent flat-Earthers like Mark Sargent.

Quote from: gotham
However, our FES's are credited with continuing the official line of FET  Our combined voices are and will remain the go-to contributors of FE legacy.       
I am not accusing members here of the worst of the above but none can deny that for the Earth to be flat many hundreds of thousands have to be accused of lying. Just look up "Place of the Conspiracy in FET" in your Wiki.

You might claim "the official line of FET" but I fail to see that with so few real flat-Earthers here and no consistent FET.
There seems to be no agreement on even an "official Flat-Earth map" and in my opinion, no accurate Flat-Earth map = no Flat-Earth.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Bullwinkle on October 09, 2018, 05:45:50 PM

There seems to be no agreement on even an "official Flat-Earth map" and in my opinion, no accurate Flat-Earth map = no Flat-Earth.

Do you also believe the Earth was not spherical until someone built a globe model?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2018, 06:23:11 PM

There seems to be no agreement on even an "official Flat-Earth map" and in my opinion, no accurate Flat-Earth map = no Flat-Earth.

Do you also believe the Earth was not spherical until someone built a globe model?

Yes.

Insofar as to why wouldn't it be flat? Until the advent of myriad measurable observations both terrestrial and celestial, navigation enhancements, etc., the list goes on. In other words, modernity.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 09, 2018, 06:26:06 PM
it is productive to see other FE interested sites on the net as long as their motivation is real and proper.
Of course the "motivation is real and proper".
One motivation is to show the total distortion of history by various popular flat-earth video presenters including Mark Sargent.
And another is pointing out how some flat-earth YouTube video presenters, the worst being Jeranism (Jeran Campanella), make vile emotive accusations against their opponents like their being "KNOWN LIARS? Killers? Masons? Nazis? Satan Worshipers? "

Quote from: gotham
They help expose more people to FET.
And I'll do my best to expose the evil side of many YouTube proponents of the flat-earth like Jeran Campanella and
the many incorrect and deceptive claims made by even prominent flat-Earthers like Mark Sargent.

Quote from: gotham
However, our FES's are credited with continuing the official line of FET  Our combined voices are and will remain the go-to contributors of FE legacy.       
I am not accusing members here of the worst of the above but none can deny that for the Earth to be flat many hundreds of thousands have to be accused of lying. Just look up "Place of the Conspiracy in FET" in your Wiki.

You might claim "the official line of FET" but I fail to see that with so few real flat-Earthers here and no consistent FET.
There seems to be no agreement on even an "official Flat-Earth map" and in my opinion, no accurate Flat-Earth map = no Flat-Earth.

We're the only real flat earthers. Those weird YouTube cultists are just looking for a conspiracy theory to make their lives seem less meaningless.

We have no consistent model for two reasons:

1) In the absence of any opportunity to perform rigorous scientific analysis, we are limited to acting as mere theoreticians. And as any globularist (shill) physicist will tell you, no two theoreticians will agree. There's just more than one way to explain an observation, and without the opportunity to experiment we can only conjecture. Multiple possible theories, each with elements of the truth, will be more useful to the experimenters who come after us than a single, coherent, and mostly incorrect theory would be. We true Flat Earthers are playing a long game. We are keeping the flame alive until a time when society has advanced to the degree that the true nature of the world can be seriously reevaluated. It won't likely happen in our lifetimes. We're like the parabolic old man planting the tree.

2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview. Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 09, 2018, 06:38:35 PM
Daniel of The FES is the person who took up and continued the so important legacy of FET with its research and perpetuation of purpose.

Until an official press release is offered by Daniel announcing a new leader, he continues to hold reign over all FEers.   
I mean no disrespect to Daniel but saying that he "continues to hold reign over all FEers" is a gross exaggeration.
Of course, I respect his leadership of this society but the society at TFES.org seems to be lead by Parsifal.

But these two societies represent just a few of the flat-Earthers spread over the Globe.
Then there is the International Flat Earth Research Society headed by Eric Dubay and I could go on and on.

Then apart from the many other flat-earth groups there is the FEIC that the very prominent flat-earth proponent was addressing in those videos.
Quote
The 2018 Flat Earth International Conference (https://fe2018.com/about/about-us/) (FEIC) is the 2nd annual conference hosted by Kryptoz Media. FEIC features presenters from various backgrounds and belief systems who have each made an impact on the larger Flat Earth community. FEIC is not in any way affiliated with the Flat Earth Society.
And the FEIC takes pains to stress "FEIC is not in any way affiliated with the Flat Earth Society.".

This place, I'm sorry to say, represents only a tiny fraction of the flat-earthers out there.

Parsy and PP1 are pretenders to the throne. They got upset because Daniel didn't upgrade the website often enough, so they took their marbles and went home

I'm joking, of course. They did a great job with their new site. But they're a sister site to ours and I don't think it's quite fair to describe them as a separate entity. Every once in a while we have discussions about reuniting, but the terms are never satisfactory to both sides (I find the situation comparable to moments in the English Civil War).
______

Eric Dubay and the "Kryptoz Media Group" are controlled opposition. NASA stooges. Don't trust them
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2018, 06:59:57 PM
2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview. Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.

So, as a Zete, you don't believe in anyone, anything, any notion of anything that came before you? Do you believe what time it is?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 09, 2018, 07:03:33 PM
2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview. Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.

So, as a Zete, you don't believe in anyone, anything, any notion of anything that came before you? Do you believe what time it is?

As a zeteticist, I believe only what I have personal direct evidence of. Since time is an arbitrary human construction, which only exists to make our lives easier and only works if we all agree to use the same system, I have no problem adhering to the little number in the corner of my computer screen.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2018, 07:11:03 PM
2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview. Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.

So, as a Zete, you don't believe in anyone, anything, any notion of anything that came before you? Do you believe what time it is?

As a zeteticist, I believe only what I have personal direct evidence of. Since time is an arbitrary human construction, which only exists to make our lives easier and only works if we all agree to use the same system, I have no problem adhering to the little number in the corner of my computer screen.

Great, have you ever been on a plane? If so, then you might delight in the fact that your pilot is guiding you to your destination with utmost care and concern as well as taking the most expedient route as defined by a great circle. Do you as well adhere to that notion? Or is his/her training an arbitrary construct that is their theory which should not be adopted because you have no prior experience as a pilot?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 09, 2018, 07:14:42 PM
2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview. Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.

So, as a Zete, you don't believe in anyone, anything, any notion of anything that came before you? Do you believe what time it is?

As a zeteticist, I believe only what I have personal direct evidence of. Since time is an arbitrary human construction, which only exists to make our lives easier and only works if we all agree to use the same system, I have no problem adhering to the little number in the corner of my computer screen.

Great, have you ever been on a plane? If so, then you might delight in the fact that your pilot is guiding you to your destination with utmost care and concern as well as taking the most expedient route as defined by a great circle. Do you as well adhere to that notion? Or is his/her training an arbitrary construct that is their theory which should not be adopted because you have no prior experience as a pilot?

None of this is inconsistent with Flat Earth Theory. The pilot is simply using a poorly optimised flight path based on inaccurate information
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2018, 07:23:29 PM
None of this is inconsistent with Flat Earth Theory. The pilot is simply using a poorly optimised flight path based on inaccurate information

And that 'poorly optimized flight path based on inaccurate information' is what flies millions of people effectively around the world, every day? Interesting.

And as a Zetecist, how would you know such a thing? According to you, you're knowledge is solely based upon your personal observations and experience. Nothing fore nor aft weighs in. So you have flown enough times to extrapolate to know that the rest of the worlds flights are flown 'inaccurately'? Curious.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 09, 2018, 07:26:38 PM
None of this is inconsistent with Flat Earth Theory. The pilot is simply using a poorly optimised flight path based on inaccurate information

And that 'poorly optimized flight path based on inaccurate information' is what flies millions of people effectively around the world, every day? Interesting.

And as a Zetecist, how would you know such a thing? According to you, you're knowledge is solely based upon your personal observations and experience. Nothing fore nor aft weighs in. So you have flown enough times to extrapolate to know that the rest of the worlds flights are flown 'inaccurately'? Curious.

It's a necessary consequence of the Earth being flat, which is confirmed beyond any possible reasonable doubt (though, of course, not beyond the reasonless doubt of the masses). Zeteticism is direct observation, combined with rigorous logic. All else is religion.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 09, 2018, 07:49:18 PM

There seems to be no agreement on even an "official Flat-Earth map" and in my opinion, no accurate Flat-Earth map = no Flat-Earth.
Do you also believe the Earth was not spherical until someone built a globe model?
No, but for centuries ship's navigators have used projections of the Globe to plan routes and estimate distance
and for almost a century aircraft navigators have used projections of the Globe to plan routes and estimate distance.
For aircraft, in particular, the estimation of distance is vital because it controls the fuel load needed and hence that maximum passenger load.

In the Southern Hemisphere in particular, the flat earth distances in many cases are more than double that on the Globe. This would make a number of common Southern Hemisphere routes quite impossible with the aircraft used.

Do I have to present the tj;dr version to explain it further? You asked for it!

Take Kingsford Smith's Oakland, Ca to Brisbane flight in 1928 as an example.
There were no modern navigation aids and no GPS all navigation was dead reckoning plus Celestial Navigation.  Maybe you can explain how his route fits your flat earth map.

This is Kingsford Smith's route from USA to Australia in 1928.
(http://monumentaustralia.org.au/content/directory/full/Kingsford_Smith_Flight_Path-3658-90863.)
Just give a thought to navigating over that route from Oakland, CA to Brisbane, QLD in 1928, landing only at Hawaii, Fiji and Brisbane.

You would have be confident that the distances and navigation directions were correct and flat earth distances and navigation directions can be quite different from on the globe.

If you want the charts used by Charles Ulm, the navigator you can access them from:
Series 1. Navigation charts used by Sir Charles Kingsford Smith in the 1928 crossing of the Pacific (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-232111831/findingaid?digitised=y#nla-obj-726284474)
North Pacific Ocean, Eastern Part, No. 527, natural scale 1:5,990,157, 1927 (Item 1) Hydrographic chart showing portion of Pacific Ocean including west coast of United States and Hawaii. (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-726368306/view)
Territory of Hawaii, sheet 4000, 1925 (Item 2) Chart showing portion of Pacific Ocean including Hawaii. Chart includes annotations of flight calculations, and shows route into and out of Hawaii. (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-726368001/view)
No. 2020, 1903 (Item 3) Chart showing portion of Pacific Ocean. Chart includes flight calculations, and shows portion of route of the Southern Cross 1928 Pacific crossing. (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-726367711)
No. 2021, 1902 (Item 4), Fiji islands Chart showing Fiji. Chart includes flight calculations, and shows portion of route of the Faith in Australia 1928 Pacific crossing. (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-726367861/view)
Fiji Islands, No.2850, natural scale 1:733,929, 1914 (Item 5) Chart showing Fiji. Chart includes flight calculations, and shows portion of route of the Southern Cross 1928 Pacific crossing. (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-726368152/view)
No. 2027, 1902 (Item 6) Chart showing New Caledonia. Chart includes flight calculations, and shows portion of route of the Southern Cross 1928 Pacific crossing (http://nla.gov.au/tarkine/nla.obj-726367444/representativeImage?hei=30)
No. 2941, 1919 (Item 7) Chart showing portion of Pacific Ocean. Chart includes flight calculations, and shows portion of route of the Southern Cross 1928 Pacific crossing. (http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-726367580/view)

See where you end up if you plot them on you favourite flat-earth map! Then compare the distances - they only refuelled in Hawaii and Fiji.
Remember:
Quote from: Michael Jones
Conquering distance Kingsford Smith and the first trans‑Pacific flight, 1928 (http://www.nma.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/2972/FriendsJun08-Kingsford-Smith.pdf)
The ninth of June 2008 marks the 80th anniversary of the first flight between America and Australia. Charles Kingsford Smith (‘Smithy’) and his crew (Charles Ulm, James Warner, and Harry Lyon) completed the 11,585 kilometre crossing in the Southern Cross in a flying time of 83 hours and 50 minutes between 31 May and 9 June 1928, stopping to refuel and rest in Hawaii and Fiji. The plane flew at an average speed of only 138 kilometres an hour.

<< Oops, I hope no-one saw that ;) >>
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Stash on October 09, 2018, 08:17:56 PM
It's a necessary consequence of the Earth being flat, which is confirmed beyond any possible reasonable doubt (though, of course, not beyond the reasonless doubt of the masses). Zeteticism is direct observation, combined with rigorous logic. All else is religion.

As you are a self-proclaimed Zeteticist, being, as you described, "precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview," the lack of Earth's rotundity cannot be 'confirmed beyond any possible reasonable doubt' other than by you. As you do not accept any other theory other than your own. Which is to say, your's is one persons' "opinion". No one elses' but your own. Lovely.

Thank you for sharing your boundlessly bereft of evidence opinion. It matters not, is supported solely by your notions and in the grand scheme of things is but a murmur across the pantheon that is "because I said so". Well done.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 09, 2018, 08:22:01 PM
We're the only real flat earthers. Those weird YouTube cultists are just looking for a conspiracy theory to make their lives seem less meaningless.
Tell that to Mark Sargent, Rob Skiba, Eric Dubay, Jeran Campanela and many more i could easily chase up!

Quote from: Tausami
We have no consistent model for two reasons:

1) In the absence of any opportunity to perform rigorous scientific analysis, we are limited to acting as mere theoreticians. And as any globularist (shill) physicist will tell you, no two theoreticians will agree.
Really? I believe that you are confusing "theories" with "hypotheses". If you are "limited to acting as mere theoreticians" how did you first come to believe that the earth is flat?

Did you just look at the horizon and see that it looks flat and so decide, as many have done, that the earth must be flat?
Well, tough luck! The horizon on our Globe should look as flat as anyone could determine with a straight edge.

Quote from: Tausami
There's just more than one way to explain an observation, and without the opportunity to experiment we can only conjecture. Multiple possible theories, each with elements of the truth, will be more useful to the experimenters who come after us than a single, coherent, and mostly incorrect theory would be.
Possibly, but all I see are flat earth hypotheses with no theoretical or supporting evidence.

Quote from: Tausami
We true Flat Earthers are playing a long game. We are keeping the flame alive until a time when society has advanced to the degree that the true nature of the world can be seriously reevaluated. It won't likely happen in our lifetimes. We're like the parabolic old man planting the tree.
The "long game"?
The idea of the earth being Globe started before 500 BC though more for philosophical reasons than based on evidence - Pythagoras and Plato thought perfectly round thing were cool!
Then Aristotle came along and by then there was some observational evidence that the earth was not flat and that the sun and moon were a great distance from there.

But your flat earth ideas did not start till the 1800s as a reaction to the perceived dangers of Darwinism.

Quote from: Tausami
2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview.
That's seems be a bit odd when most flat earthers claim that the earth has a shape like the UN flag or the North Polar AEP map.
Quote
United Nations flag
The most recent world model propagated by the Flat Earth Society holds that humans live on a disc, with the North Pole at its center and a 150-foot (45 m) high wall of ice at the outer edge. The resulting map resembles the symbol of the United Nations, which Johnson used as evidence for his position. In this model, the sun and moon are each a mere 32 miles (52 km) in diameter.
Yet it is trivially easy to prove that if the earth is flat it cannot have that continental layout!
I live in the Southern Hemisphere and can see that layout is wrong on any clear night and simply by driving west.

I and others regular present this evidence, yet it gets totally ignored.

Quote from: Tausami
Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.
Agreed! And I see contrary evidence to any flat earth model every time I see the sun rise or the moon rise from behind the horizon and stay the same apparent size even when right overhead.

Flat-earthers are just as much indoctrinated by YouTube videos and the writings of people like Rowbotham (Parallax) and Albert Smith (Zetetes) as any Globe supporters might be.

But, in the opinion of some, modern education is a bit akin to indoctrinated, where the students are taught facts, such as "the earth is a Globe . . " and not how to inquire for themselves why the earth might be a Globe or any other shape.

Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Themightykabool on October 09, 2018, 09:13:54 PM
Tausami claims two key points:

Youtubers are fake just out there to make money.

He cant evaluate the FET due to lack of funding.

Anyone see a problem?
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Themightykabool on October 09, 2018, 09:14:42 PM
Or should i say solotion
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 10, 2018, 07:05:42 PM
I'm not saying the YouTubers are in it for the money, I'm saying they're in it to satisfy their personal neuroses

The Eric Dubay types, I'm saying are being paid by NASA and co to imitate FET in "safe" way and dilute and discredit the real FET. Kinda like how the CIA infiltrated the Black Panther Movement to make them look like violent criminals
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 10, 2018, 07:20:54 PM
We're the only real flat earthers. Those weird YouTube cultists are just looking for a conspiracy theory to make their lives seem less meaningless.
Tell that to Mark Sargent, Rob Skiba, Eric Dubay, Jeran Campanela and many more i could easily chase up!

You're a fan of the "going in circles until your opponent gets bored" theory of debate, aren't you?

Quote
Quote from: Tausami
We have no consistent model for two reasons:

1) In the absence of any opportunity to perform rigorous scientific analysis, we are limited to acting as mere theoreticians. And as any globularist (shill) physicist will tell you, no two theoreticians will agree.
Really? I believe that you are confusing "theories" with "hypotheses". If you are "limited to acting as mere theoreticians" how did you first come to believe that the earth is flat?

Read the FAQ, and look up the definition of the term "theoretician". It's a scientist who thinks really hard and does a lot of math instead of doing experiments. Theoretics are about coming up with models that fit available evidence, and finding falsifiable predictions made by that model that others can one day test.

Quote
Did you just look at the horizon and see that it looks flat and so decide, as many have done, that the earth must be flat?
Well, tough luck! The horizon on our Globe should look as flat as anyone could determine with a straight edge.

Read the FAQ. You have too many posts to be a noob

Quote
Quote from: Tausami
There's just more than one way to explain an observation, and without the opportunity to experiment we can only conjecture. Multiple possible theories, each with elements of the truth, will be more useful to the experimenters who come after us than a single, coherent, and mostly incorrect theory would be.
Possibly, but all I see are flat earth hypotheses with no theoretical or supporting evidence.

See above

Quote
Quote from: Tausami
We true Flat Earthers are playing a long game. We are keeping the flame alive until a time when society has advanced to the degree that the true nature of the world can be seriously reevaluated. It won't likely happen in our lifetimes. We're like the parabolic old man planting the tree.
The "long game"?
The idea of the earth being Globe started before 500 BC though more for philosophical reasons than based on evidence - Pythagoras and Plato thought perfectly round thing were cool!
Then Aristotle came along and by then there was some observational evidence that the earth was not flat and that the sun and moon were a great distance from there.

But your flat earth ideas did not start till the 1800s as a reaction to the perceived dangers of Darwinism.

This is all accurate, and also has no bearing on the relative accuracy of the two theories. RET has been assumed for most of human civilization. Philosophers like Aristotle came up with post-hoc justifications for the idea, but RET is largely an organic phenomenon that became too entrenched to question. There was no experimental evidence supporting the claim that the Earth is round until the mid 20th century, when NASA fabricated it to cover up their inability to compete in the space race (against the Soviets who, separately, we're also fabricating evidence to cover up their inability to compete with the Americans. There's no reason to believe either side knew the other was also lying, at least in the beginning)

Quote
Quote from: Tausami
2) Any serious flat Earth model is based on a rigorous foundation of Zeteticism, which precludes the consideration of others' theories when adopting one's own worldview.
That's seems be a bit odd when most flat earthers claim that the earth has a shape like the UN flag or the North Polar AEP map.
Quote
United Nations flag
The most recent world model propagated by the Flat Earth Society holds that humans live on a disc, with the North Pole at its center and a 150-foot (45 m) high wall of ice at the outer edge. The resulting map resembles the symbol of the United Nations, which Johnson used as evidence for his position.

I can't speak for ol' Johnson's ideas. As you pointed out, early modern FET did have ties to purveyors of antiscience who had some weird ideas.

Quote
Quote from: Tausami
Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.
Agreed! And I see contrary evidence to any flat earth model every time I see the sun rise or the moon rise from behind the horizon and stay the same apparent size even when right overhead.

Flat-earthers are just as much indoctrinated by YouTube videos and the writings of people like Rowbotham (Parallax) and Albert Smith (Zetetes) as any Globe supporters might be.

But, in the opinion of some, modern education is a bit akin to indoctrinated, where the students are taught facts, such as "the earth is a Globe . . " and not how to inquire for themselves why the earth might be a Globe or any other shape.

I'm not sure I agree, but I see where you're coming from
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 11, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
Rather than get into a long drawn out discussion about who's the "only true flat earthers" etc, I'll ignore all that stuff.
Quote from: Tausami
We true Flat Earthers are playing a long game. We are keeping the flame alive until a time when society has advanced to the degree that the true nature of the world can be seriously reevaluated. It won't likely happen in our lifetimes. We're like the parabolic old man planting the tree.
The "long game"?
The idea of the earth being Globe started before 500 BC though more for philosophical reasons than based on evidence - Pythagoras and Plato thought perfectly round thing were cool!
Then Aristotle came along and by then there was some observational evidence that the earth was not flat and that the sun and moon were a great distance from there.

But your flat earth ideas did not start till the 1800s as a reaction to the perceived dangers of Darwinism.

This is all accurate, and also has no bearing on the relative accuracy of the two theories. RET has been assumed for most of human civilization. Philosophers like Aristotle came up with post-hoc justifications for the idea, but RET is largely an organic phenomenon that became too entrenched to question.
So you ignore all the observations and measurements of:
Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Aristarchus of Samos, Al-Biruni, Galileo, Tycho Brahe, Isaac Newton and many more.
These people made numerous observations and measurement consistent only with the earth's being a Globe with a distant sun and moon.

Quote from: Tausami
There was no experimental evidence supporting the claim that the Earth is round until the mid 20th century,
That is a total fabrication and if you wish to make a thread where that might be properly debated, be my guest!

Quote from: Tausami
when NASA fabricated it to cover up their inability to compete in the space race (against the Soviets who, separately, we're also fabricating evidence to cover up their inability to compete with the Americans. There's no reason to believe either side knew the other was also lying, at least in the beginning)
Again that is a total fabrication and the onus is on you to present evidence to back those claims.
The only reason you have to claim that the photos from space are fabricated is that they do not fit into your "worldview".

So if those photos are fabricated, prove it!

Quote from: Tausami
I can't speak for ol' Johnson's ideas. As you pointed out, early modern FET did have ties to purveyors of antiscience who had some weird ideas.
But "modern" flat-earthers don't seem to have improved on the "map" (better called a continental layout) that "ol' Johnson" used.
And it is still the one that most flat-earthers seem to "fall back on" and it is the only continental layout in the FAQ in Flat Earth General.
Quote
Here is picture of a proposed, but certainly not definitive, flat earth:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Flat_earth.png/220px-Flat_earth.png)
And aircraft routes are planned on maps that are projections of the Globe and distances are calculated from the spherical earth.
For long distance aircraft routes those distances have to be close to reality for the planning of fuel load.
It is easy to show that all of that distances cannot fit any existing "flat earth map".
I know first hand that the East-West distances on AEP map are grossly exaggerated in Australia!

Quote from: Tausami
Quote from: rabinoz
Quote from: Tausami
Allowing oneself to be biased by those ideas which have come before one is simply a way of ignoring the truth that is right before one's eyes.
Agreed! And I see contrary evidence to any flat earth model every time I see the sun rise or the moon rise from behind the horizon and stay the same apparent size even when right overhead.

Flat-earthers are just as much indoctrinated by YouTube videos and the writings of people like Rowbotham (Parallax) and Albert Smith (Zetetes) as any Globe supporters might be.

But, in the opinion of some, modern education is a bit akin to indoctrinated, where the students are taught facts, such as "the earth is a Globe . . " and not how to inquire for themselves why the earth might be a Globe or any other shape.
I'm not sure I agree, but I see where you're coming from
Where I am coming from is that the growth of so many pseudo-scientific ideas, like flat-earthism, that show up on YouTube and on the Internet, in general, can be largely blamed on an education system that teaches facts and not how to reason.

That coupled with a poor understanding of even that most basic aspects of physics, such as Newton's "Laws" leads people easily sway by and false ideas and conspiracy going.

And no-one can deny that belief in a flat earth demands belief in a massive conspiracy to "cover up" all contrary evidence.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Tausami on October 12, 2018, 05:14:24 AM
Rather than get into a long drawn out discussion about who's the "only true flat earthers" etc, I'll ignore all that stuff.
Quote from: Tausami
We true Flat Earthers are playing a long game. We are keeping the flame alive until a time when society has advanced to the degree that the true nature of the world can be seriously reevaluated. It won't likely happen in our lifetimes. We're like the parabolic old man planting the tree.
The "long game"?
The idea of the earth being Globe started before 500 BC though more for philosophical reasons than based on evidence - Pythagoras and Plato thought perfectly round thing were cool!
Then Aristotle came along and by then there was some observational evidence that the earth was not flat and that the sun and moon were a great distance from there.

But your flat earth ideas did not start till the 1800s as a reaction to the perceived dangers of Darwinism.

This is all accurate, and also has no bearing on the relative accuracy of the two theories. RET has been assumed for most of human civilization. Philosophers like Aristotle came up with post-hoc justifications for the idea, but RET is largely an organic phenomenon that became too entrenched to question.
So you ignore all the observations and measurements of:
Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Aristarchus of Samos, Al-Biruni, Galileo, Tycho Brahe, Isaac Newton and many more.
These people made numerous observations and measurement consistent only with the earth's being a Globe with a distant sun and moon.

See, this is the basic conceit of globularism. What they actually did is take observations and analyze their data from the starting assumption of a round Earth. Take Eratosthenes, for instance. His work is widely cited by scandalized globularists as a top reason why we're obligated to take them seriously. But all he did was calculate the curvature of the earth, should it be round. The same data, starting from the assumption that the Earth is flat, give us the distance to the sun.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: Lamaface on October 12, 2018, 05:34:09 AM
Rather than get into a long drawn out discussion about who's the "only true flat earthers" etc, I'll ignore all that stuff.
Quote from: Tausami
We true Flat Earthers are playing a long game. We are keeping the flame alive until a time when society has advanced to the degree that the true nature of the world can be seriously reevaluated. It won't likely happen in our lifetimes. We're like the parabolic old man planting the tree.
The "long game"?
The idea of the earth being Globe started before 500 BC though more for philosophical reasons than based on evidence - Pythagoras and Plato thought perfectly round thing were cool!
Then Aristotle came along and by then there was some observational evidence that the earth was not flat and that the sun and moon were a great distance from there.

But your flat earth ideas did not start till the 1800s as a reaction to the perceived dangers of Darwinism.

This is all accurate, and also has no bearing on the relative accuracy of the two theories. RET has been assumed for most of human civilization. Philosophers like Aristotle came up with post-hoc justifications for the idea, but RET is largely an organic phenomenon that became too entrenched to question.
So you ignore all the observations and measurements of:
Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Aristarchus of Samos, Al-Biruni, Galileo, Tycho Brahe, Isaac Newton and many more.
These people made numerous observations and measurement consistent only with the earth's being a Globe with a distant sun and moon.

See, this is the basic conceit of globularism. What they actually did is take observations and analyze their data from the starting assumption of a round Earth. Take Eratosthenes, for instance. His work is widely cited by scandalized globularists as a top reason why we're obligated to take them seriously. But all he did was calculate the curvature of the earth, should it be round. The same data, starting from the assumption that the Earth is flat, give us the distance to the sun.
You are isolating 1 observation to prove your point. This is the basic conceit of Flatardism.

I challenge you to take all observations and measurements mentioned by Rab, put them in the same bowl AND distill a working planar world model.
Title: Re: Flat Earth "Leader" Gets His Best 5 Points Ruined!!
Post by: rabinoz on October 12, 2018, 06:00:30 AM

So you ignore all the observations and measurements of:
Eratosthenes, Hipparchus, Aristarchus of Samos, Al-Biruni, Galileo, Tycho Brahe, Isaac Newton and many more.
These people made numerous observations and measurement consistent only with the earth's being a Globe with a distant sun and moon.

See, this is the basic conceit of globulars. What they actually did is take observations and analyze their data from the starting assumption of a round Earth. Take Eratosthenes, for instance. His work is widely cited by scandalized globularists as a top reason why we're obligated to take them seriously.
Oh. come on! There's no way Eratosthenes is taken as "a top reason why we're obligated to take them seriously". It's just one step on the way.

Quote from: Tausami
But all he did was calculate the curvature of the earth, should it be round. The same data, starting from the assumption that the Earth is flat, give us the distance to the sun.
There's a lot more to it than that.
But if we start off with what you claim and use Eratosthenes' data (at least the modern values) of about 800 km from Alexandria to Syene (Aswan) and an angle 7.2° from vertical in Alexandria and vertical in Syene
These values make "the distance to the sun" 800/tan(7.2°) = 6333 km hardly the claimed 5000 km.
But suppose the distance is taken as 3000 miles (5000 km is more accurate) and the angle as 7.2° as in:
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Thomas Winship, author of Zetetic Cosmogony, provides a calculation demonstrating that the sun can be computed to be relatively close to the earth's surface if one assumes that the earth is flat --
Quote
On March 21-22 the sun is directly overhead at the equator and appears 45 degrees above the horizon at 45 degrees north and south latitude. As the angle of sun above the earth at the equator is 90 degrees while it is 45 degrees at 45 degrees north or south latitude, it follows that the angle at the sun between the vertical from the horizon and the line from the observers at 45 degrees north and south must also be 45 degrees. The result is two right angled triangles with legs of equal length. The distance between the equator and the points at 45 degrees north or south is approximately 3,000 miles. Ergo, the sun would be an equal distance above the equator.
This is illustrated in this diagram from Modern Mechanics - Oct, 1931:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/c5vapwwha4j5fn4/Voliva%20Flat%20Earth%20Sun%20Distance.png?dl=1)
Voliva's Flat Earth Sun Distance.
This is also shown in the Wiki under Distance to the Sun (http://wiki.tfes.org/Distance_to_the_Sun) under the section Sun's Distance - Modern Mechanics.
We get the distance to the sun as 3000 miles (again 5000 km is more accurate), the figure quoted in the FE Wiki.
But why stop there?
If we use larger "base-lines", say:
          67.5° the sun height comes out at 3112 km or 1934 miles or
          90° the sun height comes out at 0 km or 0 miles.
From this are we to deduce that the height of the sun on the flat earth is 6333 km, 5000 km, 3112 km or ZERO? You tell me!

But Eratosthenes did not have to assume that the earth was a Globe in any case:
Even then the sun was known to be a great distance from earth.
This was reasoned from the fact that the sun's apparent size does not change as it moves across the sky.
The exact distance is totally irrelevant.

Hence the sun's rays will arrive at all locations on earth from almost precisely the same direction and this is all Eratosthenes needed to justify his calculations.

So no whatever you modern flat-earthers claim, Eratosthenes did not have to assume that the earth was a Globe.