The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: RocketSauce on August 17, 2018, 07:30:53 AM

Title: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 17, 2018, 07:30:53 AM
I've been listening to this guy. I've seen his rise in the lime light... I was just watching this parody-is clip of him... and was curious if any of y'alls had input.

Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 17, 2018, 10:48:04 AM
I believe we had a thread discussing him a while ago.

I think the media were pretty unfair to him, and he did have some nice videos on psychology and a couple nice debates/interviews. But I really don't take him all that seriously and he's just full of shit sometimes.

Also, just gonna leave this here:

(https://i.redd.it/c53amts0vq711.jpg)
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Crouton on August 17, 2018, 10:57:21 AM
I feel that the sort of fans he's attracting is causing him to skew his content into crazier paths.

He started out fairly reasonable but he's sounding more and more loony as he caters to these weirdos that worship him.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 17, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
I feel that the sort of fans he's attracting is causing him to skew his content into crazier paths.

He started out fairly reasonable but he's sounding more and more loony as he caters to these weirdos that worship him.
Yeah that could explain it somewhat. But I think he was kinda weird from the get go.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on August 17, 2018, 11:23:57 AM
I have no idea who Jordan Peterson is.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 17, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
I have no idea who Jordan Peterson is.
A lobster disguised as a psychology professor.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 17, 2018, 11:32:15 AM
Also, he cries on camera a lot, for some reason. There's even a video where he cries because he reads something about individualism, it's kind of weird.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 17, 2018, 11:57:19 AM
It's kinda strange how the IDW are all talking about dmt and mushrooms.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 17, 2018, 01:48:22 PM
It's kinda strange how the IDW are all talking about dmt and mushrooms.
What's the IDW?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Crouton on August 17, 2018, 01:49:58 PM
It's kinda strange how the IDW are all talking about dmt and mushrooms.
What's the IDW?

Intellectual Dark Web.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 17, 2018, 01:59:51 PM
Jordon Peterson is part of it, lol. So is Joe Rogan and a couple others i can't remember.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 17, 2018, 02:06:42 PM
I'm not sure what they have to do with the dark web though.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 17, 2018, 03:30:55 PM
A bunch of nerds wank to them, it's pretty dark!
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 23, 2018, 01:04:22 PM
The IDW... my preferred viewing content

Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2018, 01:05:59 PM
Huh? Does JP think he's an early adopter of the internet as a platform for expressing his views or something?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 23, 2018, 01:13:36 PM
Huh? Does JP think he's an early adopter of the internet as a platform for expressing his views or something?

I doubt he would agree with that line of thought. But he has been posting his college lectures for a very long time... he didn't start making a larger name for himself until the hate speech laws in Canada started being passed
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2018, 01:16:56 PM
He's about a quarter of a century late to call himself that...
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 23, 2018, 01:23:05 PM
He's about a quarter of a century late to call himself that...

Okay... so what is it you are trying to say? Would you care to elaborate?

I am listening to the open minute  over and over again trying to figure out how you came to your conclusion... I don't think he is saying what you are saying he is saying
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2018, 01:25:37 PM
He's about a quarter of a century late to call himself that...

Okay... so what is it you are trying to say? Would you care to elaborate?
It's just that he referred to himself and the rest of the "IDW" as one of the early adopters of a revolutionary new technology (the internet) and it's very weird that he says that since they're by no means early adopters.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 23, 2018, 01:29:56 PM
He's about a quarter of a century late to call himself that...

Okay... so what is it you are trying to say? Would you care to elaborate?
It's just that he referred to himself and the rest of the "IDW" as one of the early adopters of a revolutionary new technology (the internet) and it's very weird that he says that since they're by no means early adopters.
He clearly said, I don't know what the IDW is... I think it is "this"

And in the context on what he is a professor of... I would presume anything under a century or a few decades would be considered early adopters... I'd have to listen to it a few more times, but I honestly don't think he is Al Goring podcasts...

But even from the standpoint of using the internet for long form discussions to discuss controversial topics without a producer saying it was time to break for commercial... howard stern for instance was one of the early adopters of long form radio interviews and that wasn't really seen from anyone else until these podcasts came along

So even if he is including himself with the association of the IDW, I don't find him wrong in saying that. The point being, long form interviews of controversial topics... being able to flesh out the debate instead of playing to the sound bites
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2018, 01:34:21 PM
He's about a quarter of a century late to call himself that...

Okay... so what is it you are trying to say? Would you care to elaborate?
It's just that he referred to himself and the rest of the "IDW" as one of the early adopters of a revolutionary new technology (the internet) and it's very weird that he says that since they're by no means early adopters.
He clearly said, I don't know what the IDW is... I think it is "this"

And in the context on what he is a professor of... I would presume anything under a century or a few decades would be considered early adopters... I'd have to listen to it a few more times, but I honestly don't think he is Al Goring podcasts
What's Al Goring? Never heard of it before... Anyways it's a bit weird to say you're an early adopter of something when nearly everyone else has also already adopted it. It's... kind of against the definition of the word...
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 23, 2018, 01:37:36 PM
Al gore was commonly parodied for claiming he invented the internet or something.

I added more thoughts to my previous post, sorry
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 23, 2018, 01:47:08 PM
Jordan Peterson?  He's soooo early 2018.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 23, 2018, 01:48:10 PM
But even from the standpoint of using the internet for long form discussions to discuss controversial topics without a producer saying it was time to break for commercial... howard stern for instance was one of the early adopters of long form radio interviews and that wasn't really seen from anyone else until these podcasts came along

So even if he is including himself with the association of the IDW, I don't find him wrong in saying that. The point being, long form interviews of controversial topics... being able to flesh out the debate instead of playing to the sound bites
All of these things have already been done a long time ago, they're not exactly early adopters in any way. JP doesn't really strike me as very tech savvy, and I think he may have a bit of a false picture of things. It reminds me of how my parents are frequently impressed by lots of pretty mundane internet things that they think are new, they're about his age.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 23, 2018, 02:20:12 PM
But even from the standpoint of using the internet for long form discussions to discuss controversial topics without a producer saying it was time to break for commercial... howard stern for instance was one of the early adopters of long form radio interviews and that wasn't really seen from anyone else until these podcasts came along

So even if he is including himself with the association of the IDW, I don't find him wrong in saying that. The point being, long form interviews of controversial topics... being able to flesh out the debate instead of playing to the sound bites
All of these things have already been done a long time ago, they're not exactly early adopters in any way. JP doesn't really strike me as very tech savvy, and I think he may have a bit of a false picture of things. It reminds me of how my parents are frequently impressed by lots of pretty mundane internet things that they think are new, they're about his age.

So you are dismissing everything else he is saying based on what... that Jordan Peterson was trying to make up a description of the IDW (a made up term by dudes in their circle) as early adopter of Podcasts for long form discussions on controversial topics?

Seems to be a little simplistic of a hang-up for you... not too dissimilar from dismissing what someone has said due to a typo, or by speaking in generalities to save time... but, hey... that is your point to make...

It just seems that usually your points are a little more of an intellectual review of the message as a whole instead of focusing on a throw away comment at the beginning. I only posted the second clip because SJC mentioned the IDW and DMT...

As far as a long time ago... technology and the rapid progression of it makes 10 years ago feel like a long time ago... 10 years is a blip... I mean... humans have only been flying in airplanes for... how long? Just over 100 years? And dropping bombs from them 10 years after that... nukes, a other 20? And before that... sail boats where the shit for centuries.

YouTube has long been the land of cat and nut shot videos. It is only 10 years (ish) that people have been using it for long form podcast interviews as a means of getting messages out without using newspapers or tv...  but, again... I understand what you are trying to say... as far as the tech savvy aspect... there are lectures that he recorded back in the mullet days... it's not hard to stay tech savvy if you don't ignore it
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 23, 2018, 03:31:36 PM
Careful Pez, you're triggering the JP fanboy.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 24, 2018, 01:53:18 AM
So you are dismissing everything else he is saying based on what... that Jordan Peterson was trying to make up a description of the IDW (a made up term by dudes in their circle) as early adopter of Podcasts for long form discussions on controversial topics?

Seems to be a little simplistic of a hang-up for you... not too dissimilar from dismissing what someone has said due to a typo, or by speaking in generalities to save time... but, hey... that is your point to make...

Nah, I'm not dismissing him. I just noted it because I found it odd. I didn't watch the rest because I didn't have time. I may get to it eventually.

Btw, I've linked to this again, this video is the funniest response to JP I've watched to this date:


Even if you disagree you gotta at least admit it's funny!
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 24, 2018, 02:05:58 PM
Careful Pez, you're triggering the JP fanboy.

Like Jane, I'm a fan boy of thought... critical thinking... and world dominating penguins
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 24, 2018, 02:07:24 PM
So you are dismissing everything else he is saying based on what... that Jordan Peterson was trying to make up a description of the IDW (a made up term by dudes in their circle) as early adopter of Podcasts for long form discussions on controversial topics?

Seems to be a little simplistic of a hang-up for you... not too dissimilar from dismissing what someone has said due to a typo, or by speaking in generalities to save time... but, hey... that is your point to make...

Nah, I'm not dismissing him. I just noted it because I found it odd. I didn't watch the rest because I didn't have time. I may get to it eventually.

Btw, I've linked to this again, this video is the funniest response to JP I've watched to this date:


Even if you disagree you gotta at least admit it's funny!

28 fucking minutes? Seriously bro?

I'll skim through your video if you watch the original video at the top...

Okay, well this is what the problem is... because he is fighting "speech laws" the LGBT thinks he is targeting them... he isn't against trans people by any means... he is against the government passing speech laws
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 24, 2018, 03:34:21 PM
Contra is a flake.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 24, 2018, 04:26:06 PM
Contra is a flake.

Contra???
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 24, 2018, 04:37:52 PM
The video Pez posted and you said you were going to watch.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 24, 2018, 04:46:13 PM
The video Pez posted and you said you were going to watch.

Skim... which I did... which I fear is more than he did with the video i posted... i skipped the first minute or so... 20 minutes, let's get to it
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2018, 01:44:50 AM
Contra is a flake.
What's a flake?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2018, 01:46:28 AM
So you are dismissing everything else he is saying based on what... that Jordan Peterson was trying to make up a description of the IDW (a made up term by dudes in their circle) as early adopter of Podcasts for long form discussions on controversial topics?

Seems to be a little simplistic of a hang-up for you... not too dissimilar from dismissing what someone has said due to a typo, or by speaking in generalities to save time... but, hey... that is your point to make...

Nah, I'm not dismissing him. I just noted it because I found it odd. I didn't watch the rest because I didn't have time. I may get to it eventually.

Btw, I've linked to this again, this video is the funniest response to JP I've watched to this date:


Even if you disagree you gotta at least admit it's funny!

28 fucking minutes? Seriously bro?

I'll skim through your video if you watch the original video at the top...

Okay, well this is what the problem is... because he is fighting "speech laws" the LGBT thinks he is targeting them... he isn't against trans people by any means... he is against the government passing speech laws
If you want to skip to something, skip to about 8 minutes in.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2018, 01:52:14 AM
Anyways I did watch it, I didn't know he's buddies with Ben Shapiro, he annoys me even more now.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2018, 08:01:22 AM
Contra is a flake.
What's a flake?

Slang for ditz, crazy, eccentric, etc. Contra sympathizes with incels now.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2018, 10:08:38 AM
Contra is a flake.
What's a flake?

Slang for ditz, crazy, eccentric, etc. Contra sympathizes with incels now.
Did you watch the video or did you just hear from someone that "Contra sympathizes with incels"? Honest question. Because it's definitely not what someone who watched it would take away from the video. I do agree with the kinda crazy part but just saying she sympathizes with incels like that is a pretty bad representation of the video. I mean... the whole video is mostly about how bad these communities are...
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on August 25, 2018, 10:15:33 AM
28 fucking minutes? Seriously bro?
It's pretty funny and watchable.


Quote
Okay, well this is what the problem is... because he is fighting "speech laws" the LGBT thinks he is targeting them...
If you watch the video it has nothing to do with that.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Crouton on August 25, 2018, 10:55:57 AM
Contra is a flake.
What's a flake?

Slang for ditz, crazy, eccentric, etc. Contra sympathizes with incels now.
Did you watch the video or did you just hear from someone that "Contra sympathizes with incels"? Honest question. Because it's definitely not what someone who watched it would take away from the video. I do agree with the kinda crazy part but just saying she sympathizes with incels like that is a pretty bad representation of the video. I mean... the whole video is mostly about how bad these communities are...

I've seen the video. I've got to say it was fair and nuanced. That is one very strange subculture.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2018, 11:18:49 AM
Contra is a flake.
What's a flake?

Slang for ditz, crazy, eccentric, etc. Contra sympathizes with incels now.
Did you watch the video or did you just hear from someone that "Contra sympathizes with incels"? Honest question. Because it's definitely not what someone who watched it would take away from the video. I do agree with the kinda crazy part but just saying she sympathizes with incels like that is a pretty bad representation of the video. I mean... the whole video is mostly about how bad these communities are...

I've seen the video. I've got to say it was fair and nuanced. That is one very strange subculture.
Yeah, I definitely agree, it was a very fair video and one of the best on the subject. I've recently gained interest on the whole phenomenon and have been "researching" the whole subculture.  The video pretty much nails it.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on August 25, 2018, 11:28:07 AM
I'm not watching Contra's video again, because then my recommends are filled with his videos.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 25, 2018, 11:40:22 AM
Lol you can click "not interested", it usually stops recommending you videos you don't want to see. Usually. I still sometimes get alt right videos recommended to me for some reason, because, you know, youtube is shilling for the left and trying to decrease exposure of right wing ideas.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 25, 2018, 03:22:06 PM
Anyways I did watch it, I didn't know he's buddies with Ben Shapiro, he annoys me even more now.

Ben doesnt bother me... but I don't care for his show... crowder is funny... Gavin is good on rogan, not so much his own thing. 

Watch Dan pena on rogan if you ever want to feel like you waisted your lifes potential
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on August 26, 2018, 01:09:11 AM
Why would it make me feel that?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: RocketSauce on August 26, 2018, 05:37:10 PM
Why would it make me feel that?

That is how he makes me feel...



This dude is just... go go go do do do
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 24, 2020, 05:20:39 PM
https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5bv3x/penguin-random-house-staff-confront-publisher-about-new-jordan-peterson-book

Quote
Penguin Random House Staff Confront Publisher About New Jordan Peterson Book
During a tense town hall, staff cried and expressed dismay with the publishing giant's decision to publish 'Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life.'

Several Penguin Random House Canada employees confronted management about the companyís decision to publish a new book by controversial Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson at an emotional town hall Monday, and dozens more have filed anonymous complaints, according to four workers who spoke to VICE World News.

On Monday, Penguin Random House Canada, Canadaís largest book publisher and a subsidiary of Penguin Random House, announced it will be publishing Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life by Peterson, to be released in March 2021. The book will be published by Portfolio in the U.S. and Penguin Press in the U.K., both part of the Penguin Random House empire.

Four Penguin Random House Canada employees, who did not want to be named due to concerns over their employment, said the company held a town hall about the book Monday, during which executives defended the decision to publish Peterson while employees cited their concerns about platforming someone who is popular in far-right circles.

ďHe is an icon of hate speech and transphobia and the fact that heís an icon of white supremacy, regardless of the content of his book, Iím not proud to work for a company that publishes him,Ē a junior employee who is a member of the LGBTQ community and who attended the town hall told VICE World News.

Another employee said ďpeople were crying in the meeting about how Jordan Peterson has affected their lives.Ē They said one co-worker discussed how Peterson had radicalized their father and another talked about how publishing the book will negatively affect their non-binary friend.

Jordan Peterson should send Vice and the crying Canadians a thank you card. This will ensure his (probably very boring) book becomes a bestseller.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Stash on November 24, 2020, 05:55:43 PM
https://www.vice.com/en/article/g5bv3x/penguin-random-house-staff-confront-publisher-about-new-jordan-peterson-book

Quote
Penguin Random House Staff Confront Publisher About New Jordan Peterson Book
During a tense town hall, staff cried and expressed dismay with the publishing giant's decision to publish 'Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life.'

Several Penguin Random House Canada employees confronted management about the companyís decision to publish a new book by controversial Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson at an emotional town hall Monday, and dozens more have filed anonymous complaints, according to four workers who spoke to VICE World News.

On Monday, Penguin Random House Canada, Canadaís largest book publisher and a subsidiary of Penguin Random House, announced it will be publishing Beyond Order: 12 More Rules for Life by Peterson, to be released in March 2021. The book will be published by Portfolio in the U.S. and Penguin Press in the U.K., both part of the Penguin Random House empire.

Four Penguin Random House Canada employees, who did not want to be named due to concerns over their employment, said the company held a town hall about the book Monday, during which executives defended the decision to publish Peterson while employees cited their concerns about platforming someone who is popular in far-right circles.

ďHe is an icon of hate speech and transphobia and the fact that heís an icon of white supremacy, regardless of the content of his book, Iím not proud to work for a company that publishes him,Ē a junior employee who is a member of the LGBTQ community and who attended the town hall told VICE World News.

Another employee said ďpeople were crying in the meeting about how Jordan Peterson has affected their lives.Ē They said one co-worker discussed how Peterson had radicalized their father and another talked about how publishing the book will negatively affect their non-binary friend.

Jordan Peterson should send Vice and the crying Canadians a thank you card. This will ensure his (probably very boring) book becomes a bestseller.

Any publicity is good publicity.

Isn't Peterson the guy who last year or so went to Sweden or somewhere to partake in an opioid addiction "cleanse" where you get put into a coma for a week or so to get past withdrawals...And the treatment really screwed him up. Or am I confusing him with another guy?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 24, 2020, 06:15:58 PM
I think he was addicted to Xanax and he went to Russia. They put him in a coma! He was very ill for a long time.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Crouton on November 24, 2020, 06:29:54 PM
I recall one of his kids was in some kind of situation that prompted him to get on antidepressants or something.  I guess he got hooked on it.  Understandable but very much against his brand.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 24, 2020, 06:43:03 PM
Benzos are bad.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 25, 2020, 01:25:06 AM
I recall one of his kids was in some kind of situation that prompted him to get on antidepressants or something.  I guess he got hooked on it.  Understandable but very much against his brand.
Yep, so was going for quack treatment in Russia.

https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/happened-jordan-peterson (https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/happened-jordan-peterson)
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 25, 2020, 01:48:04 AM
Also, "Twelve more rules for life"?

Might as well call it "I've Just had a Big Tax Bill".  Or "My Publisher Says I Need to Milk it While Still Famous"
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Stash on November 25, 2020, 10:33:58 AM
According to an advance copy, the first rule in his new book is, "Don't do that Russian coma shit to get off Benzos. It'll fuck you up."
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Jamie on November 25, 2020, 10:41:00 AM
He's fine. He's got some interesting interviews and says some cool stuff from time to time.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 25, 2020, 10:56:12 AM
I recall one of his kids was in some kind of situation that prompted him to get on antidepressants or something.  I guess he got hooked on it.  Understandable but very much against his brand.
Ι've paid attention to the Jordan Peterson saga. It's weirder than that.

One thing that may have caused him grief was his wife's trial with cancer, but I'm not sure if he was already taking benzos before that. But his daughter is batshit crazy, she got him and her mother too on some weird ass diet that consists of nothing but meat, salt and I guess some bread every now and then. She even released books like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Jordan-Mikhaila-Peterson-Depression-Transcripts/dp/946398061X

Yes, that's a real book with a real cover.

By the way, she married a weird Russian Stalin lover who believes he is possessed by a demon called Igor who now manages JP's brand (no, I am not making this up, plus he looks normal in comparison) and had a kid with him and then she almost immediately dumped him. I think it was around that time that JP ended up in the weird Moscow clinic in medically induced coma for some fucking reason. Then his daughter started dating Andrew Tate, who is basically a kickboxing champion/camgirl pimp/abuser who managed to get kicked from Big Brother (and is ALSO completely insane, just check his twitter: https://twitter.com/OfWudan). I guess he was too insane even for her because it didn't last very long, because eventually she got back to her slightly less insane husband, and then JP got out of the crank clinic. So all was well. Until they got COVID. I'm almost convinced Zizek hexxed him with some kind of ancient Slovenian curse.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 25, 2020, 12:30:46 PM
His new book is #1 in the philosophy of ethics & morality category, and #6 in all books on Amazon right now.

Cry some more, crybullies!
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 25, 2020, 03:11:38 PM
His new book is #1 in the philosophy of ethics & morality category, and #6 in all books on Amazon right now.

Cry some more, crybullies!
I mean, he's Jordan Peterson, he has a massive following, of course this would happen lol

Although it is super weird they are buying a self help book from someone who really needs help. But garbage books sell more, so eh.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 25, 2020, 03:18:12 PM
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Crouton on November 25, 2020, 03:27:28 PM
I recall one of his kids was in some kind of situation that prompted him to get on antidepressants or something.  I guess he got hooked on it.  Understandable but very much against his brand.
Ι've paid attention to the Jordan Peterson saga. It's weirder than that.

One thing that may have caused him grief was his wife's trial with cancer, but I'm not sure if he was already taking benzos before that. But his daughter is batshit crazy, she got him and her mother too on some weird ass diet that consists of nothing but meat, salt and I guess some bread every now and then. She even released books like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Jordan-Mikhaila-Peterson-Depression-Transcripts/dp/946398061X

Yes, that's a real book with a real cover.

By the way, she married a weird Russian Stalin lover who believes he is possessed by a demon called Igor who now manages JP's brand (no, I am not making this up, plus he looks normal in comparison) and had a kid with him and then she almost immediately dumped him. I think it was around that time that JP ended up in the weird Moscow clinic in medically induced coma for some fucking reason. Then his daughter started dating Andrew Tate, who is basically a kickboxing champion/camgirl pimp/abuser who managed to get kicked from Big Brother (and is ALSO completely insane, just check his twitter: https://twitter.com/OfWudan). I guess he was too insane even for her because it didn't last very long, because eventually she got back to her slightly less insane husband, and then JP got out of the crank clinic. So all was well. Until they got COVID. I'm almost convinced Zizek hexxed him with some kind of ancient Slovenian curse.

This sounds like an orgy of poor decision making more than anything.

That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Stash on November 25, 2020, 04:26:20 PM
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

It is super weird. I kind of have a feeling that the marketing folks at Random House conjured up the whole scheme: "Let's have a 'town hall' regarding the publishing of a controversial author who we know some of our workers will get all avocado toast about and throw a fit and fall in it. We'll leak that event and subsequent turmoil to the press and we'll get the awareness about the book out there just like that...for free...on the backs of the woke..."
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 25, 2020, 05:09:28 PM
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

It is super weird. I kind of have a feeling that the marketing folks at Random House conjured up the whole scheme: "Let's have a 'town hall' regarding the publishing of a controversial author who we know some of our workers will get all avocado toast about and throw a fit and fall in it. We'll leak that event and subsequent turmoil to the press and we'll get the awareness about the book out there just like that...for free...on the backs of the woke..."

Normally I would agree, but this is like the fourth book the crybullies have tried to ban this year. The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Stash on November 25, 2020, 05:23:03 PM
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

It is super weird. I kind of have a feeling that the marketing folks at Random House conjured up the whole scheme: "Let's have a 'town hall' regarding the publishing of a controversial author who we know some of our workers will get all avocado toast about and throw a fit and fall in it. We'll leak that event and subsequent turmoil to the press and we'll get the awareness about the book out there just like that...for free...on the backs of the woke..."

Normally I would agree, but this is like the fourth book the crybullies have tried to ban this year. The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).

I guess it's always complicated and even case by case. But it's like when a controversial speaker has an engagement at a University. The crybullies try to stop it as it is giving a voice, a platform to the individual. I'm all for protesting against said individuals and their views if that's your thing, but I'm against trying to bully the administration to stop the voice from being heard. It's a fine line.
In the case here, if you're an employee against the author, you can make your stance known, even quit if so inclined. But if the pressure is meant to stop the publishing, suppress the speech, I have a hard time with that. Again, maybe it's a case by case thing.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 25, 2020, 05:39:27 PM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 02:26:00 AM
I think it's super weird that they want to ban books, this used to be a thing the conservative Christians tried to do.

What you posted was people working at Penguin not wanting to publish the book. Not wanting to publish and banning a book is very, very different. It's such a tired tactic at this point for them to pretend to be persecuted because people don't want to publish them or whatever.

This happens all the time with controversial authors in publishing houses. It's just that now it is publicized because playing victim is JP's whole shtick, and the publisher saw dollar signs. The town hall thing is so transparent lol
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 02:28:43 AM
That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.
Graphic design is my passion.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 26, 2020, 04:52:00 AM
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 05:22:42 AM
Yeah, like, banning something used to mean something being made illegal to sell or publish or arresting people for reading it/owning it/whatever, but now apparently it means someone saying "I don't want the company I work for to print this trash" and then their company doing a shitty publicity stunt by setting up a bullshit "town hall" and taking advantage of them to promote said trash.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 26, 2020, 05:31:38 AM
That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.

Graphic design is my passion.

Graphic design was my entire career.
I don't care what you think.

You just see shit.

I tell you how to feel.     




Show some pro art . . . . . . .










take you're  time  .  .  .  .












.















Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 05:35:09 AM
That book cover is... very weird. So many strange decisions.

Graphic design is my passion.

Graphic design was my entire career.
I don't care what you think.

You just see shit.

I tell you how to feel.     




Show some pro art . . . . . . .










take you're  time  .  .  .  .












.

Graphic design is my passion is a common phrase to mock terrible graphic design by people who don't know what they're doing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.knowyourmeme.com/memes/graphic-design-is-my-passion
https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-if-someone-says-graphic-design-is-my-passion
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Unconvinced on November 26, 2020, 06:23:07 AM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 06:54:30 AM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 07:18:44 AM
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.

That is not the point. I didn't say his book was never published, only that the tactics worked. Hachette declined to publish his book after employees protested.

Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Unconvinced on November 26, 2020, 07:41:17 AM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 26, 2020, 07:48:41 AM
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.

That is not the point. I didn't say his book was never published, only that the tactics worked. Hachette declined to publish his book after employees protested.
You said it worked in the context of "banning" books:

Quote
Normally I would agree, but this is like the fourth book the crybullies have tried to ban this year. The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir

In what sense did they work?  The book was published and lots of extra publicity was generated.   The book wasn't banned.

I don't agree with the employees in either case  - it's just another dumb self help book, who gives a shit?  However they are just exercising their free speech, right to protest etc.  What do you want to do?  Ban them?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 07:56:32 AM
I feel like you are pretending not to understand what I posted. Perhaps I could have been more precise, but this is a conversation and I'm just a regular person.

I don't want to ban anyone. I don't want corporate censorship to be based on whatever is considered woke at the moment. The Woody Allens of the world can always find another publisher, but most people aren't that lucky.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 08:06:03 AM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Unconvinced on November 26, 2020, 08:38:30 AM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Quite right.  I phrased that badly.  I do have the right to demand to be published and they have the right to tell me to fuck off.

Quote
Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.

So does that mean they have to let anyone speak who wants to?  I could just rock up at a university and expect to address a bunch of students on my favorite 80s sci-fi TV shows?  And if they donít let me, I can whinge that Iím being no platformed?


Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 08:45:30 AM
The only one I'm aware that they were successful is Woody Allen's memoir (I don't know if that was this year).
Which you can buy to read in three different formats on Amazon or listen to the audio book on Audible.  It was also reviewed everywhere.

It seems banned books have never been so freely available to read!  It's not like the old days.

That is not the point. I didn't say his book was never published, only that the tactics worked. Hachette declined to publish his book after employees protested.
OK but why does that matter? Shouldn't employees of a publishing house be entitled to have a say in what gets published? Their bosses already do. It's not like anyone can just walk up to a publisher and give them something to publish and then boom, they do it. Allen is a sex creep, I understand someone not wanting to publish his stuff.

"Handing over the censorship to the companies" is what already happens by default.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on November 26, 2020, 08:50:48 AM
I feel like you are pretending not to understand what I posted. Perhaps I could have been more precise, but this is a conversation and I'm just a regular person.
Fair enough, it's just you are using the word "ban" which has has a particular meaning and connotations, as in:

"officially or legally prohibit (something)." 

That is clearly not happening - nobody is banning these books and I doubt anyone even called for an actual ban.

Quote
The Woody Allens of the world can always find another publisher, but most people aren't that lucky.
Are you kidding?  It's literally easier to publish your work than any time in human history. You can just self publish to Amazon eBooks for free.  Or straight to your own website that you can set up for a few dollars.    You don't even need a publisher to publish any more.

In the past, unless you were already famous (like Woody Allen), or got lucky, the chances are you'd never get your work published and nobody would ever read it.  Traditional publishing is an expensive and marginal business and publishers were very risk averse - most books never made any money.  Now anybody can knock something out and have it available all over the world in minutes.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 08:52:01 AM
I feel like you are pretending not to understand what I posted. Perhaps I could have been more precise, but this is a conversation and I'm just a regular person.

I don't want to ban anyone. I don't want corporate censorship to be based on whatever is considered woke at the moment. The Woody Allens of the world can always find another publisher, but most people aren't that lucky.
Most people aren't lucky enough to get any publisher whatsoever anyways lol, do you think anyone can just go to Hachette and say "pls publish my stuff"? If anything it is way easier now to publish something. Heck, you can even just dump it on the Internet as a last resort.

It's like people who desperately want to be persecuted somehow only now discovered that publishers can chose what they publish and they won't just publish whatever you give them, and they may chose not to for millions of reasons. It's such a tired trope at this point, idk how some people still fall for it.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 11:47:28 AM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Quite right.  I phrased that badly.  I do have the right to demand to be published and they have the right to tell me to fuck off.

Quote
Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.

So does that mean they have to let anyone speak who wants to?  I could just rock up at a university and expect to address a bunch of students on my favorite 80s sci-fi TV shows?  And if they donít let me, I can whinge that Iím being no platformed?

No, speakers are invited by students and student groups, usually. So, if the sci-fi nerd society invited you to talk about your favorite 80s sci-fi tv shows, then you would definitely have the right to speak on campus. Now, if the fantasy nerd society protested against you, you'd still have the right to speak, unless the fantasy nerds threaten violence and the university feels it can't keep you safe. That's the kind of no-platforming people generally "whinge" about. 
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Unconvinced on November 26, 2020, 12:23:05 PM
Yeah, the idea that it's not good enough that they don't read the book (or listen to the speaker) they must make sure others can't read the book is very disturbing.

Welcome to the free market.  No company is obligated to publish books they donít want to publish.  No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Each is free to listen to objections from employees, student bodies or anyone else whose opinions they value and act accordingly.

Maybe youíd prefer the state to decide what gets published instead?  Not very conservative though.

Yeah, it's great to hand over censorship to corporations. I don't know what could go wrong. (I'm not a conservative.)

If I write some bad trashy novel I donít have the right to demand it gets published. 

Same difference, except fans of some political hacks seem to think itís censorship if publishers donít want to print the things they want.

Weíre all ďno platformedĒ by default. Thatís life.   Itís up to us to find a platform that will have us if we want to spread whatever we want to say.

Employees have the right to demand something doesn't get published, but you don't have the right to demand something does get published?  I think you both have the right to make your demands.

Quite right.  I phrased that badly.  I do have the right to demand to be published and they have the right to tell me to fuck off.

Quote
Also, I think you should rethink your opinion on speaking platforms at universities in the US. Private universities can censor and no platform. Public universities are state owned, or funded. Administration are not supposed to no-platform invited speakers. Students are free to protest, of course.

So does that mean they have to let anyone speak who wants to?  I could just rock up at a university and expect to address a bunch of students on my favorite 80s sci-fi TV shows?  And if they donít let me, I can whinge that Iím being no platformed?

No, speakers are invited by students and student groups, usually. So, if the sci-fi nerd society invited you to talk about your favorite 80s sci-fi tv shows, then you would definitely have the right to speak on campus. Now, if the fantasy nerd society protested against you, you'd still have the right to speak, unless the fantasy nerds threaten violence and the university feels it can't keep you safe. That's the kind of no-platforming people generally "whinge" about.

Did the Penguin employees threaten violence? 
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 12:28:25 PM
No, they just cried.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 01:56:43 PM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 26, 2020, 02:32:11 PM

No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Actually, Every "school" which accepts money from taxpayers is obligated to allow free speech.


Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: markjo on November 26, 2020, 02:53:22 PM
Not all speech is free speech,
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 03:12:10 PM

No university is obligated to give a platform to speakers the donít want to hear speaking.

Actually, Every "school" which accepts money from taxpayers is obligated to allow free speech.
Really? Where does it say that? Do you think just anyone can go and speak in a university? Why is everyone acting like they JUST now figured out you can't speak whenever and wherever you want? Why is it even such a big issue that someone can't be invited speak in any particular university? Can't they live without the prestige? Like, this is not universities kicking out students or professors for their views, we're talking about guests who were disinvited because students didn't want them around. Like, they're just guests. They can just speak wherever. All speaking at a university would achieve for them is the prestige that saying "I was invited to speak at a university" carries with it, and they know it, and that's why they do it, and that's why others don't want them to have it if they don't like them. It's not the end of the world for anyone. Not being platformed here and there happens to everyone all the time, and for much more significant issues than this shit, but it's only a very particular group of people that constantly make a big stink about it, evidently even if they get their way after all ("coincidentally" these same people also seem to have a massive spotlight in their faces and a thousand other places where they can and do find platforms). The persecution complex has no end.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 03:27:51 PM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 03:33:23 PM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Bullwinkle on November 26, 2020, 03:43:55 PM
Not all speech is free speech,

Give me an example.

[not the ratadad fire in a theatare BS]
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 03:53:09 PM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol

What does my happiness have to do with anything? Do I need to be happy about their behavior in order to discuss it?  You are clearly not happy that I pointed out their behavior, why is that?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 26, 2020, 04:26:31 PM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol

What does my happiness have to do with anything? Do I need to be happy about their behavior in order to discuss it?  You are clearly not happy that I pointed out their behavior, why is that?
Did I say you have to be happy about their behavior to discuss it? I said I find it curious that you are angry about it. I don't understand what you are acting like you don't have any opinion now. If that is even what you are doing,  because to be honest I'm not sure what the point you are making now is supposed to be, like, yeah, this is a discussion, I know, what's the point?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 04:34:40 PM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol

What does my happiness have to do with anything? Do I need to be happy about their behavior in order to discuss it?  You are clearly not happy that I pointed out their behavior, why is that?
Did I say you have to be happy about their behavior to discuss it? I said I find it curious that you are angry about it. I don't understand what you are acting like you don't have any opinion now. If that is even what you are doing,  because to be honest I'm not sure what the point you are making now is supposed to be, like, yeah, this is a discussion, I know, what's the point?

U mad, bro? You seem a bit angry, tbh.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: markjo on November 26, 2020, 04:56:33 PM
Not all speech is free speech,

Give me an example.

[not the ratadad fire in a theatare BS]
https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amendment/
Obscenity.
Fighting words.
Defamation (including libel and slander)
Child pornography.
Perjury.
Blackmail.
Incitement to imminent lawless action.
True threats.
Hate speech.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 05:21:44 PM
I don't think "hate speech" is on the list yet. I hope it never is.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: JerkFace on November 26, 2020, 05:58:11 PM
I don't think "hate speech" is on the list yet. I hope it never is.

It sort of already is,  in the sense that a public figure openly using racist slurs is publically shamed.   Wasn't some pizza guy CEO forced out because he used the n-word?

....  was it Papa John? or something.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 26, 2020, 06:01:06 PM
Well, markjo linked to a list of speech that isn't protected by the constitution. There's lots of speech that will get you publicly shamed or fired from your job.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: markjo on November 26, 2020, 07:24:30 PM
I don't think "hate speech" is on the list yet. I hope it never is.
It could probably be argued that hate speech falls into one or more category of fighting words, defamation or obscenity.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 27, 2020, 07:23:14 AM
Douglas Murray has an excellent article up https://unherd.com/2020/11/jordan-peterson-v-the-crybullies/
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Crouton on November 27, 2020, 08:45:22 AM
I've listened to several hours of Peterson's lectures, conversations and debates.  I really can't find anything all that objectionable about him that they'd want to "cancel" him. 

He refused to do people's preferred pronouns.  And his philosophy is occasionally almost interesting but usually devolves into something about lobsters and chaos.

If I were a crybully then I think I'd want to save it for someone with a more coherent toxic message like Richard Spencer.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 27, 2020, 09:34:42 AM
You can order lobster merch from him! lol
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 28, 2020, 05:47:14 AM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol

What does my happiness have to do with anything? Do I need to be happy about their behavior in order to discuss it?  You are clearly not happy that I pointed out their behavior, why is that?
Did I say you have to be happy about their behavior to discuss it? I said I find it curious that you are angry about it. I don't understand what you are acting like you don't have any opinion now. If that is even what you are doing,  because to be honest I'm not sure what the point you are making now is supposed to be, like, yeah, this is a discussion, I know, what's the point?

U mad, bro? You seem a bit angry, tbh.
You didn't answer.

Follow up question: why are you acting like a 14 year old youtube commenter all of a sudden?
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 28, 2020, 05:59:36 AM
I've listened to several hours of Peterson's lectures, conversations and debates.  I really can't find anything all that objectionable about him that they'd want to "cancel" him. 

He refused to do people's preferred pronouns.  And his philosophy is occasionally almost interesting but usually devolves into something about lobsters and chaos.

If I were a crybully then I think I'd want to save it for someone with a more coherent toxic message like Richard Spencer.

There is a reddit megathread some people made that mentions various reasons many people don't like him: https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/c2ny3g/why_do_you_hate_jordan_peterson_the_megathread/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Also he influences young dudes into becoming complete weirdos who are permanently pissed at women. I have a friend whose ex boyfriend got into the Peterson bandwagon, he passes through many extremely weird phases. Apparently at some point he started looking into Aleister Crowley because he was trying to find something to bring order into his life that isn't exactly religion or some shit. He was doing greetings to the Sun God or whatever for a while. He also tried doing their weird carnivore diet but he was shit at committing to anything so that didn't work either. Eventually my friend just kinda got tired of his weird antics and his growing hostility to LGBT people and women so they stopped dating, although I don't understand why they didn't stop earlier, every time she talked to me about him it was always about something he did that she found stupid or made her angry lol

The difference is that Jordan Peterson influences far more people than Richard Spencer (who's kinda obsolete now anyways), but JP is the "gateway drug" for many of these people, someone who acts respectable, is a professor, talks as if he is your dad, etc.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 28, 2020, 06:42:32 AM
ALSO, reminder that Peterson hand wrings about evil students protesting speakers at universities because freeze peach, but has less than nothing to say about the actual state passing anti BDS laws and generally things that are far more material and important than whatever he chose to be upset about every now and then: https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/8k65ga/jordan_peterson_characterizes_critics_of_israel/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Goes to show what his freeze peach thing is really about.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 28, 2020, 07:54:17 AM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol

What does my happiness have to do with anything? Do I need to be happy about their behavior in order to discuss it?  You are clearly not happy that I pointed out their behavior, why is that?
Did I say you have to be happy about their behavior to discuss it? I said I find it curious that you are angry about it. I don't understand what you are acting like you don't have any opinion now. If that is even what you are doing,  because to be honest I'm not sure what the point you are making now is supposed to be, like, yeah, this is a discussion, I know, what's the point?

U mad, bro? You seem a bit angry, tbh.
You didn't answer.

Follow up question: why are you acting like a 14 year old youtube commenter all of a sudden?

Because you are being retarted. Your question was "why am I angry at employees..." and then you accused me of not being very happy about them. I can't possibly think talking about grievance culture is interesting without being emotional, right?  I never acted like I don't have an opinion, you made that up for some reason. You tried to turn the discussion from what we were talking about, to talking about me personally. I am curious why you did that. I don't expect you to agree with me about these things, I would appreciate it if you could just have the discussion (or not, you can scroll past my posts).

 
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Pezevenk on November 28, 2020, 08:14:25 AM
It's very curious how angry you are at employees not supporting publishing Peterson's book.

It's very curious you think I'm angry at employees because I want to have a discussion about them trying to block publication of Jordan Peterson's book, in a thread about Jordan Peterson, on a forum that is for having discussions about this sort of thing.
So we're having that discussion and you clearly don't seem very happy about them lol

What does my happiness have to do with anything? Do I need to be happy about their behavior in order to discuss it?  You are clearly not happy that I pointed out their behavior, why is that?
Did I say you have to be happy about their behavior to discuss it? I said I find it curious that you are angry about it. I don't understand what you are acting like you don't have any opinion now. If that is even what you are doing,  because to be honest I'm not sure what the point you are making now is supposed to be, like, yeah, this is a discussion, I know, what's the point?

U mad, bro? You seem a bit angry, tbh.
You didn't answer.

Follow up question: why are you acting like a 14 year old youtube commenter all of a sudden?

Because you are being retarted. Your question was "why am I angry at employees..." and then you accused me of not being very happy about them. I can't possibly think talking about grievance culture is interesting without being emotional, right?  I never acted like I don't have an opinion, you made that up for some reason. You tried to turn the discussion from what we were talking about, to talking about me personally. I am curious why you did that. I don't expect you to agree with me about these things, I would appreciate it if you could just have the discussion (or not, you can scroll past my posts).

You don't seem like you want to have the discussion really, unless I agreed. You just seem like you want to take issue at words and dance around the main point. So again, why are you angry unhappy outraged mildly annoyed heavily annoyed upset cranky disappointed mad disapproving (maybe?) of them not wanting to publish his book?

Apparently "grievance culture" now is not wanting to publish something you consider bad, but only when that something is reactionary. It started form banning people from social media, now it's basically employees voicing a disapproving opinion about publishing something in a particular publishing house after literally being asked if they approve of it. They don't want to publish JP's book? Sounds very woke and very evil. Join the concerned citizens club.
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 28, 2020, 09:08:13 AM
You are making more stuff up. I have been having a conversation with several people in this thread (who disagree with me to some extent). Sometimes I don't reply to you, because you rarely argue in good faith. For example, you have accused Jordan Peterson of playing the victim, but as far as I'm aware he hasn't publicly commented on the behavior of the employees at Penguin Random House (his daughter has tweeted about it). Another example, you accuse me of being angry (insert lots of other possible emotions), instead of disagreeing with anything specific, and offering your own opinion. Another example, you accuse me of "dancing around the main point" which is exactly what you do when you nitpick the word "ban" and accuse me of being angry. This is called projection. You project your own emotions onto me, because you can't argue why you think employees, whose job doesn't involve deciding what is or isn't published, should try to block publication of a book. Penguin Random House have published lots of books by authors I don't like, I just don't buy their books.

Grievance culture is using emotional manipulation to have people cancelled, fired, shunned, no-platformed, threatened, etc. The problem with is that sometimes a mob joins and it doesn't matter if the accusations are correct, a person can still be fired from their job. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/rabble-rouser/202011/ten-ways-tell-if-you-are-targeted-cancellation 
Title: Re: Jordan Peterson... thoughts?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on November 28, 2020, 09:55:50 AM
This is an archive of a Telegraph article about the possible merger of Penguin Random House and Simon & Schuster https://archive.is/yYFVE It goes into the attempts to have books blocked from publication a little bit.