The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Shifter on July 05, 2018, 06:13:34 PM

Title: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Shifter on July 05, 2018, 06:13:34 PM
Here is a few losers the world isn't going to miss. I say sucked in. I don't know why staff bothered to get the remains out of them. Should have just waited for the next time the animals took a shit and then package that shit to the families loved ones for the funerals. That is all they were worth

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6702352/rhino-poaches-eaten-alive-lions-south-africa-game-reserve/

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 05, 2018, 06:18:21 PM
My family hunts, but I don't know anyone who'd hunt endangered animals. I think it's terrible to kill an animal you're not going to eat, or is not an immediate threat to you, or if it is suffering needs to be put down.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 05, 2018, 06:30:18 PM
I was torn between the philosophy of options 2 and 3. But in practice, I mean come on.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 05, 2018, 07:14:57 PM
LOL,  they got what they deserved,  but don't confuse that with hunting.   I used to go rabbit shooting,  and fox hunting.   Not so much these days.  If you live on a farm you grow up knowing where your meat comes from.  Townies like shifter would probably starve to death if they had to kill their own steaks.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Shifter on July 05, 2018, 07:20:22 PM
LOL,  they got what they deserved,  but don't confuse that with hunting.   I used to go rabbit shooting,  and fox hunting.   Not so much these days.  If you live on a farm you grow up knowing where your meat comes from.  Townies like shifter would probably starve to death if they had to kill their own steaks.

Rabbits and foxes are pests that cause a lot of destruction. Hunting them re balances the food chain to a more natural order. Good on those that do. I have no problem with killing an animal for survival. Hell, I support Kangaroo culling (as long as its meat and fur etc is not left to waste). Sometimes nature needs mans helping hand.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 06, 2018, 12:54:49 AM
There isn't a "I don't hunt but I support those that do" option.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Shifter on July 06, 2018, 01:23:22 AM
There isn't a "I don't hunt but I support those that do" option.

Hmm. OK. I'll add it. I guess just post to what level you clarify. There is a difference between shooting ducks for fun, rabbits for pest control or endangered elephants or rhinos etc for trophies

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 01:29:22 AM
Not enough options. I don't think it's always despicable, I don't hunt, but also I think hunting endangered animals is despicable.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 01:39:16 AM
Killing animals for fun is disgusting. If you do it, you're a sick s.o.w. and should feel bad because you are bad.

For survival it's okay.

For population control... depends. It's at least questionable.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 01:56:24 AM
Killing animals for fun is disgusting. If you do it, you're a sick s.o.w. and should feel bad because you are bad.
Yeah it's pretty bad, I don't know why people like it. But there are people who do it for money, and I can't really differentiate that much between them and farmers with livestock. If that's what "for survival" means, then I agree with that option.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 06, 2018, 02:47:12 AM
There isn't a "I don't hunt but I support those that do" option.

Hmm. OK. I'll add it. I guess just post to what level you clarify. There is a difference between shooting ducks for fun, rabbits for pest control or endangered elephants or rhinos etc for trophies

I'm for any hunting that doesn't greatly damage the animals population and/or cause an imbalance in the ecosystem. People who safari hunt, often times donate the meat to the region for people to buy. So if the elephants are being hunted to extinction, then efforts should be made to save them without putting undue burden on the people living their (i.e. environmental laws that makes farming all but impossible for someone to make a decent living off of.)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 02:58:36 AM
People who safari hunt, often times donate the meat to the region for people to buy.

That's as pathetic as it gets. Pretending to cure world hunger and help the poor by killing elephants. Holy shit that's so dumb.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 03:11:00 AM
There isn't a "I don't hunt but I support those that do" option.

Hmm. OK. I'll add it. I guess just post to what level you clarify. There is a difference between shooting ducks for fun, rabbits for pest control or endangered elephants or rhinos etc for trophies

I'm for any hunting that doesn't greatly damage the animals population and/or cause an imbalance in the ecosystem. People who safari hunt, often times donate the meat to the region for people to buy. So if the elephants are being hunted to extinction, then efforts should be made to save them without putting undue burden on the people living their (i.e. environmental laws that makes farming all but impossible for someone to make a decent living off of.)
That's bullshit excuses they use to justify their shittiness. Also what do you mean "donate the meat to the region for people to buy"? Do they donate it or do they have people buy it? What?

Also if you think environmental laws are the main reason farming in these countries is so hard to make a living of, or why they are so poor, I don't know what to say.

On the other hand though safari hunters are good for these countries since they bring money to these regions, and they're sometimes good for the species there because the people making money off of the wildlife means they will be more inclined to preserve it.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 03:24:17 AM
Also, if they locals wanted the elephants dead, I'm kind of sure that they are capable of killing elephants themselves, without a rich western retard doing it for them.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 06, 2018, 04:03:40 AM
People who safari hunt, often times donate the meat to the region for people to buy.

That's as pathetic as it gets. Pretending to cure world hunger and help the poor by killing elephants. Holy shit that's so dumb.

You took my quote out of context. I specifically said that as long the population is healthy and won't cause a environmental crisis, I don't care what you hunt or even why. Besides, there are other things in the safari to hunt besides elephants like water buffaloes and gazelles. Like I said, I don't hunt though I would like to pick it up some day. It's a good survival skill.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 06, 2018, 04:09:07 AM
There isn't a "I don't hunt but I support those that do" option.

Hmm. OK. I'll add it. I guess just post to what level you clarify. There is a difference between shooting ducks for fun, rabbits for pest control or endangered elephants or rhinos etc for trophies

I'm for any hunting that doesn't greatly damage the animals population and/or cause an imbalance in the ecosystem. People who safari hunt, often times donate the meat to the region for people to buy. So if the elephants are being hunted to extinction, then efforts should be made to save them without putting undue burden on the people living their (i.e. environmental laws that makes farming all but impossible for someone to make a decent living off of.)
That's bullshit excuses they use to justify their shittiness. Also what do you mean "donate the meat to the region for people to buy"? Do they donate it or do they have people buy it? What?

Donate as in sell.
Quote
Also if you think environmental laws are the main reason farming in these countries is so hard to make a living of, or why they are so poor, I don't know what to say.

I didn't said environmental laws were the main reason. I gave an example (i.e.).
Quote
On the other hand though safari hunters are good for these countries since they bring money to these regions, and they're sometimes good for the species there because the people making money off of the wildlife means they will be more inclined to preserve it.

Which is my point.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 04:10:40 AM
Like I said, I don't hunt though I would like to pick it up some day. It's a good survival skill.

Agreed.

We used to make rabbit stew,  add onions and garlic,  a bit of chilli and rosemary,  throw in some celery and carrots.  Slow cook over an open fire in a cast iron pot, let it simmer all day.   Delicious.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 04:13:15 AM
Donate as in sell.

That's not donation, that's selling.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 04:16:39 AM
Like I said, I don't hunt though I would like to pick it up some day. It's a good survival skill.

Agreed.
I don't understand the whole "survival skill" trope. What are the chances you're going to end up in a situation where you'll have to survive by hunting, and to what extent is any experience with hunting going to be helpful in that case, given that you probably won't really have any of the equipment normally used for hunting?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 06, 2018, 04:21:41 AM
Like I said, I don't hunt though I would like to pick it up some day. It's a good survival skill.

Agreed.
I don't understand the whole "survival skill" trope. What are the chances you're going to end up in a situation where you'll have to survive by hunting, and to what extent is any experience with hunting going to be helpful in that case, given that you probably won't really have any of the equipment normally used for hunting?

Well I live by the motto "better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." So this is natural step for me. I just don't have the time or money to start right now.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 04:29:14 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 06, 2018, 04:31:47 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

Sure, learn what plants are edible and make traps, but I'll also add hunting to the mix.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 04:47:13 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 04:56:31 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 05:18:08 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".

It seems that you haven't seen much of the natural world in close up.    :)   

I shouldn't make fun of that attitude,  I am actually completely sympathetic to the view you are expressing,  but nature is not all butterflies and flowers.  There are predators out there as well.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 05:26:21 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".

It seems that you haven't seen much of the natural world in close up.    :)   

I shouldn't make fun of that attitude,  I am actually completely sympathetic to the view you are expressing,  but nature is not all butterflies and flowers.  There are predators out there as well.
Yeah, so you totally have to go out and shoot animals. 100% coherent and reasonable argument. In other words: pathetic.

Seriously, in most first world countries there are very few - if any - predators that would attack humans. And there are certainly other ways to deal with them than to go out and shoot animals.
Especially considering that those very few predators tend to attack from behind without you noticing and then instantly bite your neck, not even giving you the opportunity to use your gun.

By the way, all this kind of makes me think it's you that's living in a town and knows nothing about nature.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Shifter on July 06, 2018, 05:37:28 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".

It seems that you haven't seen much of the natural world in close up.    :)   

I shouldn't make fun of that attitude,  I am actually completely sympathetic to the view you are expressing,  but nature is not all butterflies and flowers.  There are predators out there as well.
Yeah, so you totally have to go out and shoot animals. 100% coherent and reasonable argument. In other words: pathetic.

Seriously, in most first world countries there are very few - if any - predators that would attack humans. And there are certainly other ways to deal with them than to go out and shoot animals.
Especially considering that those very few predators tend to attack from behind without you noticing and then instantly bite your neck, not even giving you the opportunity to use your gun.

By the way, all this kind of makes me think it's you that's living in a town and knows nothing about nature.


Just out of curiosity how do you feel against killing introduced pests that destroy the eco system and kill wildlife to the point they are endangered? I love cats but feral cats are a huge problem and have no problem with them being killed.

I wish if cowards wanted to kill an animal, they would kill some feral pests over endangered animals.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 05:42:31 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".

It seems that you haven't seen much of the natural world in close up.    :)   

I shouldn't make fun of that attitude,  I am actually completely sympathetic to the view you are expressing,  but nature is not all butterflies and flowers.  There are predators out there as well.
Yeah, so you totally have to go out and shoot animals. 100% coherent and reasonable argument. In other words: pathetic.

Seriously, in most first world countries there are very few - if any - predators that would attack humans. And there are certainly other ways to deal with them than to go out and shoot animals.
Especially considering that those very few predators tend to attack from behind without you noticing and then instantly bite your neck, not even giving you the opportunity to use your gun.

By the way, all this kind of makes me think it's you that's living in a town and knows nothing about nature.

I think you misunderstood my point of view, I wasn't suggesting killing predators.   Leave the wolves and lions alone,  they know what they are doing,  you on the other hand clearly do not. 
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 05:46:15 AM
Just out of curiosity how do you feel against killing introduced pests that destroy the eco system and kill wildlife to the point they are endangered? I love cats but feral cats are a huge problem and have no problem with them being killed.

I wish if cowards wanted to kill an animal, they would kill some feral pests over endangered animals.

Quote
For population control... depends. It's at least questionable.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 06:02:04 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".

It seems that you haven't seen much of the natural world in close up.    :)   

I shouldn't make fun of that attitude,  I am actually completely sympathetic to the view you are expressing,  but nature is not all butterflies and flowers.  There are predators out there as well.
No shit, why do you feel you have to participate in that? There is also a lot of rape and poop eating in nature, I'm not going to go around raping random animals and eating poo because they do it too.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 06:06:54 AM
I love cats but feral cats are a huge problem and have no problem with them being killed.
Feral cats can be sterilized and/or relocated.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 06:25:11 AM
I think the 'survival-thingy' is sort of a heritable murican neurological defect. Not sure though, but I can't explain it differently.


Anyway, if it's about survival I think it would be most important to know which plants are edible, how to start a fire from scratch, fishing, making traps and basic medical skills/knowledge. Killing animals with guns...yeah sure...best survival skill ever!

I know the ones you are thinking of, some of them are bat-shit crazy,  preparing for the coming apocalypse by stockpiling baked beans and ammunition.  That's not what I'm talking about, it's more a question of living in harmony with the natural world and understanding nature.   

Get out into the great outdoors and breathe that fresh mountain air.   :)
 
Νature is great, but I don't consider shooting up animals to be "living in harmony with the natural world".

It seems that you haven't seen much of the natural world in close up.    :)   

I shouldn't make fun of that attitude,  I am actually completely sympathetic to the view you are expressing,  but nature is not all butterflies and flowers.  There are predators out there as well.
No shit, why do you feel you have to participate in that? There is also a lot of rape and poop eating in nature, I'm not going to go around raping random animals and eating poo because they do it too.

First question: Do you eat meat?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 06:26:05 AM
I love cats but feral cats are a huge problem and have no problem with them being killed.
Feral cats can be sterilized and/or relocated.

Or shot on sight because they kill native birds and small mammals.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 07:48:31 AM
I love cats but feral cats are a huge problem and have no problem with them being killed.
Feral cats can be sterilized and/or relocated.

Or shot on sight because they kill native birds and small mammals.
Well then we should also shoot hunters on sight.

First question: Do you eat meat?
Well yes, but I'm trying to go vegetarian right now. I've more or less quit red meat and restricted animal products in general. But I don't think this is a good argument. Just because you eat dead animals doesn't mean you'd find it enjoyable to kill them.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 08:22:47 AM
I love cats but feral cats are a huge problem and have no problem with them being killed.
Feral cats can be sterilized and/or relocated.

Or shot on sight because they kill native birds and small mammals.
Well then we should also shoot hunters on sight.

First question: Do you eat meat?
Well yes, but I'm trying to go vegetarian right now. I've more or less quit red meat and restricted animal products in general. But I don't think this is a good argument. Just because you eat dead animals doesn't mean you'd find it enjoyable to kill them.

Umm...  "enjoyable"   I don't think that you've quite understood the point I'm making.   But I don't blame you, you are so far removed from the source of the food you eat that I suspect you've never killed anything that you quite happily have eaten in the past,  that you are disconnected from the reality of where your food actually comes from.

As for shooting hunters,  now I know you are just trolling, if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.

 If you want to eat chicken, by all means go ahead,  just stop hiding from the reality that someone had to kill and prepare that meal on your behalf.  Be grateful.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 06, 2018, 08:28:02 AM
if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.

But you must admit that according to this logic humans generally should be shot at sight. And cattle, too.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 08:38:37 AM
Umm...  "enjoyable"   I don't think that you've quite understood the point I'm making.   But I don't blame you, you are so far removed from the source of the food you eat that I suspect you've never killed anything that you quite happily have eaten in the past,  that you are disconnected from the reality of where your food actually comes from.
You'd be wrong. It' true that I haven't personally killed anything. Well, I did accidentally kill a bird when I was younger and it was a traumatic experience, I have no idea how anyone could take enjoyment out of it. But Greece overall isn't as urbanized as you may think. I know very well where food comes from. My fucking neighbor kills pigeons routinely to eat them for fuck's sake.

Quote
As for shooting hunters,  now I know you are just trolling, if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.
I know they cause damage. But in the areas where they are a problem, capturing them and sterilizing them, or, if the threat is too great, relocating them is a much better option.

Quote
If you want to eat chicken, by all means go ahead,  just stop hiding from the reality that someone had to kill and prepare that meal on your behalf.  Be grateful.
I'm about as grateful as I am grateful to companies using sweatshops to sell me stuff for cheap. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but I don't like it at all. Also I'm not trying to just eat chicken, I'm trying to quit all meat. Maybe I'll keep eating fish now and then. But it's not easy to make the transition instantly.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 08:42:34 AM
Quote
Umm...  "enjoyable"   I don't think that you've quite understood the point I'm making.   But I don't blame you, you are so far removed from the source of the food you eat that I suspect you've never killed anything that you quite happily have eaten in the past,  that you are disconnected from the reality of where your food actually comes from.
Holy shit, did you even read what he wrote? God damn m8. Your incapability of understanding basic texts reminds of bhs.

Quote
As for shooting hunters,  now I know you are just trolling, if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.
False propher answered this.
You're a huge hypocrite if you seriously want to make this point.
Especially considering that basically all those cats come from humans.

Quote
If you want to eat chicken, by all means go ahead,  just stop hiding from the reality that someone had to kill and prepare that meal on your behalf.  Be grateful.
Noone is hiding this reality. You're just creating a strawman argument to rant against.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 09:03:28 AM
Quote
Umm...  "enjoyable"   I don't think that you've quite understood the point I'm making.   But I don't blame you, you are so far removed from the source of the food you eat that I suspect you've never killed anything that you quite happily have eaten in the past,  that you are disconnected from the reality of where your food actually comes from.
Holy shit, did you even read what he wrote? God damn m8. Your incapability of understanding basic texts reminds of bhs.

Quote
As for shooting hunters,  now I know you are just trolling, if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.
False propher answered this.
You're a huge hypocrite if you seriously want to make this point.
Especially considering that basically all those cats come from humans.

Quote
If you want to eat chicken, by all means go ahead,  just stop hiding from the reality that someone had to kill and prepare that meal on your behalf.  Be grateful.
Noone is hiding this reality. You're just creating a strawman argument to rant against.

I was answering the greek psycho,  not you,  so get back in your box. 

If you want to talk about the havoc caused by feral cats, I'd be more than happy to educate you.  I'm serious,  in Australia feral cats have all but wiped out some species. 

Here's a question for you. When was the last meal that you ate without relying on others to do the hard work for you?  I bet you'd starve if you had to feed yourself.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 09:04:42 AM
if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.

But you must admit that according to this logic humans generally should be shot at sight. And cattle, too.

Some humans perhaps.  Rhino poachers certainly.

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/news/2015/02/australian-feral-cats-wreak-the-most-damage-to-species
http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive-species/publications/overview-impact-feral-cats-australian-native-fauna

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 06, 2018, 09:16:59 AM
if you knew the enviromental damage caused by feral cats you'd understand why they should be shot on sight.

But you must admit that according to this logic humans generally should be shot at sight. And cattle, too.

Some humans perhaps.  Rhino poachers certainly.

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/news/2015/02/australian-feral-cats-wreak-the-most-damage-to-species
http://www.environment.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive-species/publications/overview-impact-feral-cats-australian-native-fauna

The greatest damage for the environment are still humans and the animals they breed. Well, cats being one of them. But where I live feral cats mostly hunt mice and birds rather rarely, because cats are not well equipped for hunting birds.

I guess the impact of cats on the environment in Australia is due to the isolated nature of its fauna, that evolved without feline carnivores.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 09:17:09 AM
I was answering the greek psycho,  not you,  so get back in your box. 
Why am I a psycho for disliking the killing of animals?

Quote
If you want to talk about the havoc caused by feral cats, I'd be more than happy to educate you.  I'm serious,  in Australia feral cats have all but wiped out some species. 
I don't question that they're causing harm. I'm saying there are other ways to deal with the harm, for cats at least. For mice there aren't really many alternatives than just killing them.

Quote
Here's a question for you. When was the last meal that you ate without relying on others to do the hard work for you?  I bet you'd starve if you had to feed yourself.
What does that have to do with anything? Do you make your own clothes? Did you build your own house? Did you make your own car? I don't understand what the argument is supposed to be. Unless you mean when I last cooked a meal, which again is a weird question and even more pointless.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 09:18:58 AM
Quote
Here's a question for you. When was the last meal that you ate without relying on others to do the hard work for you?  I bet you'd starve if you had to feed yourself.
Meat or in general?

Also, does everyone now has to be able to carry out every profession, just to not let others do the hard work?
That concept sounds stupid to me.

Quote
I was answering the greek psycho,  not you,  so get back in your box. 
So that's how you handle posts that you cannot answer? You keep reminding me of bhs.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 06, 2018, 09:23:32 AM
For mice there aren't really many alternatives than just killing them.

In most places on earth that's what cats do all night. That's not a job for humans. Don tek away der joobs!

If Australia exists is an open question anyway.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 09:33:19 AM
I was answering the greek psycho,  not you,  so get back in your box. 
Why am I a psycho for disliking the killing of animals?

Quote
If you want to talk about the havoc caused by feral cats, I'd be more than happy to educate you.  I'm serious,  in Australia feral cats have all but wiped out some species. 
I don't question that they're causing harm. I'm saying there are other ways to deal with the harm, for cats at least. For mice there aren't really many alternatives than just killing them.

Quote
Here's a question for you. When was the last meal that you ate without relying on others to do the hard work for you?  I bet you'd starve if you had to feed yourself.
What does that have to do with anything? Do you make your own clothes? Did you build your own house? Did you make your own car? I don't understand what the argument is supposed to be. Unless you mean when I last cooked a meal, which again is a weird question and even more pointless.

Ok, so you have never killed,  cleaned and plucked  a chicken,  but you criticize those who do it on your behalf. 

If on the other hand you aren't actually being critical of those killing animals on your behalf, then you can't criticize people who hunt for food.

As far as building houses and cars go,  yes, someone actually has to do that as well.  Just because you don't have to do it yourself is not relevant.




Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 09:38:19 AM
Holy shit I cannot deal with that level of stupidity and ignorance.

Give me a fucking break and go kangaroo hunting for a bit.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 09:46:18 AM
Holy shit I cannot deal with that level of stupidity and ignorance.

Give me a fucking break and go kangaroo hunting for a bit.

LOL.  cute.  I'm beginning to like you, so stop it.  :)

When you grow a brain, you can tell me how you can eat meat without someone killing an animal.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 06, 2018, 09:48:45 AM
Holy shit I cannot deal with that level of stupidity and ignorance.

Give me a fucking break and go kangaroo hunting for a bit.

LOL.  cute.  I'm beginning to like you, so stop it.  :)

When you grow a brain, you can tell me how you can eat meat without someone killing an animal.
When did I say I eat meat?
When did anyone claim you could eat meat without killing?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 09:53:33 AM
Holy shit I cannot deal with that level of stupidity and ignorance.

Give me a fucking break and go kangaroo hunting for a bit.

LOL.  cute.  I'm beginning to like you, so stop it.  :)

When you grow a brain, you can tell me how you can eat meat without someone killing an animal.
When did I say I eat meat?
When did anyone claim you could eat meat without killing?

Sigh...    kindergarten time.

1.  People eat meat.  maybe you don't but that's not relevant to the debate.
2.  Someone has to kill an animal to provide the meat. 
3.  If you think people shouldn't hunt animals for food,  but happily buy chicken from the supermarket you are a hypocrite.

Or maybe you one of those who thinks chocolate milk comes from brown cows?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: TotesReptilian on July 06, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
Rayzor, I firmly believe that you can be anything you want when you grow up. Please don't become a kindergarten teacher though.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 06, 2018, 10:17:03 AM
Ok, so you have never killed,  cleaned and plucked  a chicken,  but you criticize those who do it on your behalf. 

If I had, you'd probably call me a hypocrite. Look, I don't know why this concept is hard to grasp. There are things that benefit me, but I still think it's cruel to do them. I already tried to explain it with the sweatshop example. Now I don't think farmers are evil. They're doing their job, and while I think it's cruel I wouldn't criticize them. And because I think it's cruel, I'm trying to stop eating meat (for other reasons too, it's just one of many). But hey, it's their job. But hunters (most of them anyways) do it for sport, for their enjoyment. We were talking about them. I don't know why you had to shift the goal posts like that.

Quote
If on the other hand you aren't actually being critical of those killing animals on your behalf, then you can't criticize people who hunt for food.

You're shifting the goalposts again. Really tiresome.

Quote
As far as building houses and cars go,  yes, someone actually has to do that as well.  Just because you don't have to do it yourself is not relevant.
So why is it relevant that I don't hunt for my food?

3.  If you think people shouldn't hunt animals for food,  but happily buy chicken from the supermarket you are a hypocrite.
Yeah, that's also a false equivalency. Even though I don't think people who hunt because it's their job or something are bad in general, I still think they're bad if what they're doing impacts the ecosystem in a negative way.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 05:50:32 PM
Rayzor, I firmly believe that you can be anything you want when you grow up. Please don't become a kindergarten teacher though.

Funny you should say that,  I was thinking that kindergarten kids should be made aware of where their food comes from. 

I wonder how many kids don't actually know where their chicken McNuggets come from,  or the meat in their big macs?     

I they knew the truth they'd probably all turn vegetarian like User and DNO.  :)    (Sorry I meant DNS and Pez)

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 06, 2018, 05:58:07 PM
Ok, so you have never killed,  cleaned and plucked  a chicken,  but you criticize those who do it on your behalf. 

If I had, you'd probably call me a hypocrite.

No quite the opposite,

Look, I don't know why this concept is hard to grasp. There are things that benefit me, but I still think it's cruel to do them. I already tried to explain it with the sweatshop example. Now I don't think farmers are evil. They're doing their job, and while I think it's cruel I wouldn't criticize them. And because I think it's cruel, I'm trying to stop eating meat (for other reasons too, it's just one of many). But hey, it's their job. But hunters (most of them anyways) do it for sport, for their enjoyment. We were talking about them. I don't know why you had to shift the goal posts like that.

So why are you distinguishing between farmers and hunters?   What factor is determining your attitude?


So why is it relevant that I don't hunt for my food?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.

Yeah, that's also a false equivalency. Even though I don't think people who hunt because it's their job or something are bad in general, I still think they're bad if what they're doing impacts the ecosystem in a negative way.

No it is in fact equivalent,  an animal is killed to provide meat in both cases.  You can't object to killing in one case and not the other.

I agree on your ecosystem comment.   

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 06, 2018, 05:59:14 PM
Yeah, the factory slaughterhouses are disgusting.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 06, 2018, 06:40:23 PM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 07, 2018, 12:38:16 AM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 07, 2018, 12:40:02 AM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

I'd be careful,  them older Mooses ( Meeses)  can be dangerous when provoked.   :) 

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 01:24:34 AM
So why are you distinguishing between farmers and hunters?   What factor is determining your attitude?
For one it's a way to make a living, for the other it's a sport. For one it's a necessity, for the other it's just because they like killing animals. Also extra shittiness points if their hunting endangeres species. But not all farmers are saints either, some treat the animals in their farms awful and large scale farming is just as bad for the environment. I don't really like these people either.


Quote
So why is it relevant that I don't hunt for my food?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.
Where's the hypocrisy? It would be hypocritical if I was a hunter and still called them out.


Quote
Yeah, that's also a false equivalency. Even though I don't think people who hunt because it's their job or something are bad in general, I still think they're bad if what they're doing impacts the ecosystem in a negative way.

No it is in fact equivalent,  an animal is killed to provide meat in both cases.  You can't object to killing in one case and not the other.

I agree on your ecosystem comment.
Well if you agree, why do you still think it's equivalent?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 07, 2018, 02:29:18 AM
Quote
Sigh...    kindergarten time.

1.  People eat meat.  maybe you don't but that's not relevant to the debate.
2.  Someone has to kill an animal to provide the meat. 
3.  If you think people shouldn't hunt animals for food,  but happily buy chicken from the supermarket you are a hypocrite.

Or maybe you one of those who thinks chocolate milk comes from brown cows?
1) It is since you called us hypocritical. Get your arguments lined up and stop randomly throwing things in.
2) You so smart... you impress me every time! How have you found out?
3) Q.e.d. for 1)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 07, 2018, 04:03:08 AM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)

Hunters don't murder the mommies and babies.
They typically take the old males that have been relieved of their siring duties by younger males.

Wolves and lions and disease get their share and are much less selective.


There's a reason things are called side dishes.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 07, 2018, 04:09:10 AM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)
Well I thought you're being ironic.
But still, your point doesn't make sense. So because animals die anyway we may just kill them? Huh? Dafuq m8?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 07, 2018, 04:30:30 AM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)
Well I thought you're being ironic.
But still, your point doesn't make sense. So because animals die anyway we may just kill them? Huh? Dafuq m8?


Nobody is going to force you to butcher meat.
Feel free to buy it pre-dressed by the pound.

It's only an animal if you see it's eyes, right?   ;D
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 07, 2018, 04:32:48 AM
Do you know what McNuggets are made of? 

OK, bad example, nobody knows what they're made of.   :)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 04:43:55 AM
Hunters don't murder the mommies and babies.
They typically take the old males that have been relieved of their siring duties by younger males.
So what you're saying is that he can come and kill you  ;)

Also I'm not convinced they do indeed only kill those ones, and even if that were true, it still is not a very good point.

Quote
Wolves and lions and disease get their share and are much less selective.
Well why not leave it to them then? Even if they only kill the old and diseased ones (which is not an excuse), they are depriving predators and scavengers of their food. They were evolving fine together before humans hacked the system. Plus your point about the old ones could only ever apply to some mammals. For birds they mostly just shoot whatever.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 04:44:57 AM
Y'all realize animals in the wild never die of old age, right?
So I can come and kill you because you'd die of old age one day? Top notch logic, sir!

Sure, that's exactly what I said.   ::)
Well I thought you're being ironic.
But still, your point doesn't make sense. So because animals die anyway we may just kill them? Huh? Dafuq m8?


Nobody is going to force you to butcher meat.
Feel free to buy it pre-dressed by the pound.

It's only an animal if you see it's eyes, right?   ;D
Did you miss the rest of the thread? Everyone knows how meat is made.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 07, 2018, 05:54:46 AM
So why are you distinguishing between farmers and hunters?   What factor is determining your attitude?
For one it's a way to make a living, for the other it's a sport. For one it's a necessity, for the other it's just because they like killing animals. Also extra shittiness points if their hunting endangeres species. But not all farmers are saints either, some treat the animals in their farms awful and large scale farming is just as bad for the environment. I don't really like these people either.

Ok, so it's only bad in your mind if the animal is killed because the person doing it likes killing?   What about insisting on humane practices,  or even some spiritual connections like halal requires.  Making sure the animal doesn't suffer unecessarily would seem to outweigh the other considerations you are raising.


Quote
So why is it relevant that I don't hunt for my food?

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy.
Where's the hypocrisy? It would be hypocritical if I was a hunter and still called them out.

Huh?  I thought I explained this already.   You can either accept that an animal has been killed to provide you with food or not, If you accept it, then you no longer have moral standing to complain about the people who do the killing on your behalf.   To accept the food, and then complain about the killing that provided it, is hypocritical.

Quote
Yeah, that's also a false equivalency. Even though I don't think people who hunt because it's their job or something are bad in general, I still think they're bad if what they're doing impacts the ecosystem in a negative way.

No it is in fact equivalent,  an animal is killed to provide meat in both cases.  You can't object to killing in one case and not the other.

I agree on your ecosystem comment.
Well if you agree, why do you still think it's equivalent?

The ecosystem is a separate question,  there is no coorelation between hunting per se, and negative ecosystem impacts.
The equivalency is the argument I've already outlined. 

If you don't like people killing animals for meat,  then don't eat meat.   If you eat meat then don't complain that someone had to kill an animal.   You can't have both.

I doubt I can make it any simpler.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 07, 2018, 06:08:36 AM
What's amazing about all of this is that there seems to be one side saying "people need to eat meat, dummy" and another saying "sport killing is not cool, you asshole" and those activities are different entities so the arguments just don't mesh very well. On the sport-hunting side, I get the impression we're envisioning a safari hunter riding in a Jeep with a guide that's taking him to all the places he knows the lions like to hang out. And on the survival/people-eat-meat side, we're talking about something like hunting deer and having a freezer full of venison that will actually get eaten.

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 07, 2018, 06:22:32 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 07, 2018, 06:56:13 AM
I am pro venison freezer. I have hunters in my family. We ate wild animals. Some of those animals now have their racks mounted. And I have absolutely zero problem with any of that.

I usually catch-and-release when I fish. Sometimes I catch-and-eat. I've also harvested and eaten clams and mussels.

People are apex predators. The top of the food chain. Other animals are our food. Nature ain't purty. If someone wants to eat veggies, more power to you, but that's the exception and not the rule.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 07, 2018, 07:04:54 AM
Quote
The top of the food chain.
Strong argument  ::)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 07, 2018, 07:07:10 AM
Quote
The top of the food chain.
Strong argument  ::)

Obvious troll is obvious.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 07, 2018, 07:20:48 AM
What's amazing about all of this is that there seems to be one side saying "people need to eat meat, dummy" and another saying "sport killing is not cool, you asshole" and those activities are different entities so the arguments just don't mesh very well. On the sport-hunting side, I get the impression we're envisioning a safari hunter riding in a Jeep with a guide that's taking him to all the places he knows the lions like to hang out. And on the survival/people-eat-meat side, we're talking about something like hunting deer and having a freezer full of venison that will actually get eaten.

Am I missing something?

Yes, I think this what has happened with the thread.

Trophy hunting is bad, imo.
Hunting for the purpose of eating is good, imo.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 07:25:47 AM
Ok, so it's only bad in your mind if the animal is killed because the person doing it likes killing?
No, I think it's bad, period. But the reason or justification one has to do a bad thing makes a difference in my mind. When one hunts for fun, what that shows me is a desensitization to violence towards animals to the point of enjoying it. That's a quality I don't like in a person. I'm not obloged to like what they're doing.

Quote
  What about insisting on humane practices,  or even some spiritual connections like halal requires.  Making sure the animal doesn't suffer unecessarily would seem to outweigh the other considerations you are raising.
Humane practices are good. But in the end of the day you're still killing it.

Quote
Huh?  I thought I explained this already.   You can either accept that an animal has been killed to provide you with food or not, If you accept it, then you no longer have moral standing to complain about the people who do the killing on your behalf.   To accept the food, and then complain about the killing that provided it, is hypocritical.

First of all, hunters don't do any killing for my behalf. Second, I already explained that even if you acknowledge something has to be done, it doesn't necessarily mean you like the person who has chosen to do it. Third, I also said I don't generally have an issue with farmers. Fourth, as I also said, me eating animals is not something I'm proud of and I'm trying to change it and have already done progress, so don't accuse me of being hypocritical when I say I believe it's wrong.

Quote
The ecosystem is a separate question,  there is no coorelation between hunting per se, and negative ecosystem impacts.
The equivalency is the argument I've already outlined. 
But I said it's not equivalent for these situations where it does have a negative impact (which is many situations).

Quote
If you don't like people killing animals for meat,  then don't eat meat.   
Thanks for the suggestion,  if only I had thought about it sooner  ::)

Also you're trying to make hunting equivalent to purchasing meat but it's just not, for many reasons, some of which I've outlined.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 07:27:37 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.
What?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 07, 2018, 08:41:35 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

What?

Bambi.

People don't think twice about spraying poison on little ugly creatures but want to protect the big cute animals.

Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 10:38:32 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

What?

Bambi.

People don't think twice about spraying poison on little ugly creatures but want to protect the big cute animals.
That has absolutely nothing to do with Bambi. I've never seen Bambi. I did watch a bunch of movies with anthropomorphic insects and I still don't give a fuck about them. It's not a matter of cuteness either.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 07, 2018, 10:43:10 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

What?

Bambi.

People don't think twice about spraying poison on little ugly creatures but want to protect the big cute animals.
That has absolutely nothing to do with Bambi. I've never seen Bambi. I did watch a bunch of movies with anthropomorphic insects and I still don't give a fuck about them. It's not a matter of cuteness either.

You just kill at random?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 07, 2018, 12:05:15 PM
You just kill at random?
Lol I kill mosquitoes at random! Fuck them!
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 07, 2018, 05:54:46 PM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

I blame Alex Anderson.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 08, 2018, 01:26:54 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

I blame Alex Anderson.
Who is that?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 08, 2018, 02:08:38 AM

Am I missing something?

I blame Disney for anthropomorphizing animals.

I blame Alex Anderson.
Who is that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Anderson_(cartoonist)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 08, 2018, 02:09:32 AM
Ooooh I get it now.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: deadsirius on July 13, 2018, 08:59:50 AM
Interesting topic.  I've never hunted--it's not that I absolutely would refuse to...more just a general sense that I personally would not gain anything from it.

I am 100% against causing animals unneeded suffering.  But philosophically, I'm not sure I believe that the death of an individual animal really...matters.  I guess I'm saying I don't see it as fundamentally tragic in the way that human death is.

When my dad was living out west he routinely shot rattlesnakes, groundhogs, and anything else on the property that was a clear and present danger to the people or animals living there (groundhog holes break horse legs).  This I see no issue with.

Generally I think hunting for the hell of it is kind of dumb, but my opinion took a bit of a u-turn fifteen years ago when I totaled my 86 Buick on an unlucky deer at about 60 mph.  That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal, but the point is whitetail deer are the opposite of endangered in North America.  Some moderated population control is fine with me.

Now you could argue that us having our roads and cars going through their ancestral habitat is the real problem here, but that's for another thread...
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 09:06:27 AM
Quote
That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal
It's not just anectotal, it's plain stupid.


Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 09:08:47 AM
Hey, I love farm animals. Especially love eating them.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 09:11:12 AM
Hey, I love farm animals. Especially love eating them.
We all know you hate all living creatures except for yourself - although I'm not sure if we could consider your empty existance 'living'.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: deadsirius on July 13, 2018, 09:11:30 AM
Quote
That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal
It's not just anectotal, it's plain stupid.




You'll have to forgive me but reading through this thread I find it a little hard to take you seriously on the subject.

At any rate, I was there and you weren't, so you'll have to take my word for it when i say the bullet would've been much more humane
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 09:25:42 AM
Quote
That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.  I realize that's anecdotal
It's not just anectotal, it's plain stupid.




You'll have to forgive me but reading through this thread I find it a little hard to take you seriously on the subject.

At any rate, I was there and you weren't, so you'll have to take my word for it when i say the bullet would've been much more humane
It's not that single scenario that is 'plain stupid', it's about the conclusions you are implying. Of course, for that one deer it might have been better to get shot than run over (and even that is your opinion and not a fact). But there is no way to forsee the future and know which deers would get run over and which not. So, you obviously can't kill all deer and other animals that could possibly run in front of your car. Therefore it's just a very silly argument, I'm sorry but that's my opinion.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 13, 2018, 09:33:45 AM
You can control the population to reduce the possibility of deer crossing roads due to foraging though. More deer means they have to go further to find food, increasing the chances of crossing roadways.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 09:43:59 AM
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: deadsirius on July 13, 2018, 10:09:47 AM
Well, as I said I'm not that fired up about doing it, myself...but I'm okay with the fact that others do.  Anyway, DuckDodgers got the point--the more of them out there, the more on average that are going to get hit by cars.  As far as the deer is concerned being hit by a car and being hit by a bullet basically ends in the same result.  How humane that result is will of course vary case by case, but I think it's fair to at least call it equivalent.

However, if you do believe it's morally wrong, I can't really argue.  I don't think I agree, but it's hardly something I can make an objective argument against.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 10:20:21 AM
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.


Down here in the South, most people hunt deer and keep the meat frozen to eat on throughout the year. Plus it helps keep the deer population in check.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 13, 2018, 10:35:45 AM
DNS, are you vegan? Stop murdering the broccoli, you monster. 
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 10:39:21 AM
DNS, are you vegan? Stop murdering the broccoli, you monster.
No I'm not.
Also, broccoli doesn't have a central nervous system, so it doesn't feel pain and certainly isn't sentient in any way.

Quote
Down here in the South, most people hunt deer and keep the meat frozen to eat on throughout the year. Plus it helps keep the deer population in check.
If there was a morally acceptable way of eating meat, then it would be this.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 13, 2018, 10:41:31 AM
Is it the killing in general you have a problem with, killing is wrong no matter what purpose? Or is it the fact that meat is freely available therefore hunting isn't needed? Or do you think people should not eat animals?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: DuckDodgers on July 13, 2018, 10:42:56 AM
People don't hunt and then just dump the animal by the wayside, or at least not in general. Most hunters go out, kill a deer, and then get the deer butchered for meat while also getting it mounted for display.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 10:46:16 AM
Is it the killing in general you have a problem with, killing is wrong no matter what purpose? Or is it the fact that meat is freely available therefore hunting isn't needed? Or do you think people should not eat animals?
I generally think the killing of (bigger) animals that are some kind of sentient is wrong. Of course, in a survival situation, it would be different.
But nowdays eating meat isn't necessary, especially not 2x every day. I think eating meat only 1-2x per week would already be a lot better than 1-2x every day.
Also, eating meat that is industrially produced, is bad for the environment, makes the world hunger problem worse etc. It's just bad in every way, except maybe for your taste buds (and that is mostly habituation).


About the population control thing I've already written my opinion on page 1:
Quote
For population control... depends. It's at least questionable.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 13, 2018, 10:56:06 AM
Hunting here in Florida serves more than one purpose. It controls the population (whatever the animal), it provides food for the hunter, and it is like a sport. People are definitely using the animals for food, even if they give it away.

I agree with you about meat in general. There's no health requirement for eating meat 3 times a day.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 11:04:33 AM
Hunting here in Florida serves more than one purpose. It controls the population (whatever the animal), it provides food for the hunter, and it is like a sport. People are definitely using the animals for food, even if they give it away.

I agree with you about meat in general. There's no health requirement for eating meat 3 times a day.
I'm not sure about a vegan diet, but I'm pretty sure that we don't need any meat to live long, happy and healthy.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 13, 2018, 11:05:19 AM
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.


Down here in the South, most people hunt deer and keep the meat frozen to eat on throughout the year. Plus it helps keep the deer population in check.

Same thing in Northeastern South Canada.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 11:06:01 AM
I eat meat with every meal pretty much.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 13, 2018, 11:16:40 AM
I eat meat with every meal pretty much.

Yep, that's how it is in my family too. Even if we have beans and cornbread, there's some kind of pork seasoning the beans.

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 11:20:25 AM
I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
For a start, just leave the meat away and you have a vegetarian meal.
If you want to be more funky, you can add some tofu and all other sort of soja stuff, cheese etc.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 11:27:22 AM
I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
For a start, just leave the meat away and you have a vegetarian meal.
If you want to be more funky, you can add some tofu and all other sort of soja stuff, cheese etc.

You are one sick Swede.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 13, 2018, 11:29:39 AM
I eat meat with every meal pretty much.

Yep, that's how it is in my family too. Even if we have beans and cornbread, there's some kind of pork seasoning the beans.

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.

Do you know the Hare Krishna people? They are the Hindu version of Jehovah's Witnesses but they publish the best vegetarian cooking books of the world.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Crouton on July 13, 2018, 11:36:31 AM
I eat meat with every meal pretty much.

Yep, that's how it is in my family too. Even if we have beans and cornbread, there's some kind of pork seasoning the beans.

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.

Do you know the Hare Krishna people? They are the Hindu version of Jehovah's Witnesses but they publish the best vegetarian cooking books of the world.

I know this Hare Krishna.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1462960

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
For a start, just leave the meat away and you have a vegetarian meal.

Not that simple.  Cooking is more than the sum of its ingredients. 
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 11:58:19 AM
I am 100% against causing animals unneeded suffering.  But philosophically, I'm not sure I believe that the death of an individual animal really...matters.  I guess I'm saying I don't see it as fundamentally tragic in the way that human death is.

I think it does matter, a lot. But I also think it depends on the animal (killing a wasp is not as bad as killing a rat, and killing a rat is not as bad as killing an elephant) and it's not as bad as the death of a human.

Quote
Generally I think hunting for the hell of it is kind of dumb, but my opinion took a bit of a u-turn fifteen years ago when I totaled my 86 Buick on an unlucky deer at about 60 mph.  That was an ugly scene and I can't help but feel both me and the doe would have been much better off if someone had shot her before crossing my path.

That is kinda silly. It doesn't say very much about anything. Maybe by killing it with your car you "saved" it from dying an even worse death. Or maybe the hunter would have missed and badly injured it with a bullet, leaving it with an infected wound and making it suffer for days before it died.

Quote
I realize that's anecdotal, but the point is whitetail deer are the opposite of endangered in North America.  Some moderated population control is fine with me.

Hunting is not the only way to control the population. Also a major reason why population control may be needed in some cases is because all their natural predators have been hunted down.

Quote
Now you could argue that us having our roads and cars going through their ancestral habitat is the real problem here, but that's for another thread...
That is indeed a major problem.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 12:03:15 PM
On the subject of vegetarian/vegan food, the toughest part about going vegetarian is not cutting the meat, that's easy. The hard part is figuring out what you're going to eat instead. I don't like any of the meat substitutes. Of course I COULD stop eating meat and only eat whatever I like from the vegetarian stuff, but then my diet would go to shit because it would be awfully imbalanced. And the fact that most restaurants here don't have enough vegetarian/vegan options makes things even worse.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 12:05:12 PM
Give me meat, meat, and more meat. And potatoes.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 12:07:18 PM
I eat meat with every meal pretty much.

Yep, that's how it is in my family too. Even if we have beans and cornbread, there's some kind of pork seasoning the beans.

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
You don't eat legumes?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 12:07:58 PM
Give me meat, meat, and more meat. And potatoes.
How to get obese 101.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 12:58:28 PM
Give me meat, meat, and more meat. And potatoes.
How to get obese 101.
That's wrong, you get obese by eating more calories than you need. And that's usually the case when you get a lot of 'hidden' calories e.g. soft drinks. I don't think meat and potatoes are the reason why 'muricans are fat.

Quote
On the subject of vegetarian/vegan food, the toughest part about going vegetarian is not cutting the meat, that's easy. The hard part is figuring out what you're going to eat instead. I don't like any of the meat substitutes. Of course I COULD stop eating meat and only eat whatever I like from the vegetarian stuff, but then my diet would go to shit because it would be awfully imbalanced. And the fact that most restaurants here don't have enough vegetarian/vegan options makes things even worse.
About 10-15 years ago, it was very hard to get a vegan/vegetarian meal where I live. Now it's really easy because being vegan/vegetarian is becoming a trend/lifesteal. I'd guess that this will happen in greece, too, although places close to the sea usually put some fish/seafood in nearly every meal, so it's generally a bit harder.

Quote
That is kinda silly. It doesn't say very much about anything. Maybe by killing it with your car you "saved" it from dying an even worse death. Or maybe the hunter would have missed and badly injured it with a bullet, leaving it with an infected wound and making it suffer for days before it died.
His argument does make about as much sense as saying we should kill all humans, because some of them might suffer a horrible death due to cancer. It's just dumb 'reasoning'.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 01:10:53 PM
Give me meat, meat, and more meat. And potatoes.
How to get obese 101.
That's wrong, you get obese by eating more calories than you need. And that's usually the case when you get a lot of 'hidden' calories e.g. soft drinks. I don't think meat and potatoes are the reason why 'muricans are fat.
It's really easy to get fat with potatoes though. Not so much with meat but potatoes have lots of carbs which are very deceptive. When I was fat I ate a lot more carbs than I do now, and when I decided to cut back on them I lost a lot of weight pretty easily.

Quote
About 10-15 years ago, it was very hard to get a vegan/vegetarian meal where I live. Now it's really easy because being vegan/vegetarian is becoming a trend/lifesteal. I'd guess that this will happen in greece, too, although places close to the sea usually put some fish/seafood in nearly every meal, so it's generally a bit harder.

Actually it's good for some people because some people only want to quit meat, not fish. I'll probably keep eating some small fish even after I've completely quit meat. The thing is people here also eat octopus. It's the cruelest thing. Octopuses are highly intelligent, but they're also REALLY hard to kill and usually they suffer a lot. Some people dash them on rocks to kill them, and they usually don't die immediately so they keep dashing them until they do.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 01:23:22 PM
Dashing? Don't you mean smashing? Or banging? Or hitting?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 13, 2018, 01:24:41 PM
I eat meat with every meal pretty much.

Yep, that's how it is in my family too. Even if we have beans and cornbread, there's some kind of pork seasoning the beans.

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.

Do you know the Hare Krishna people? They are the Hindu version of Jehovah's Witnesses but they publish the best vegetarian cooking books of the world.

I know this Hare Krishna.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1462960

I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
For a start, just leave the meat away and you have a vegetarian meal.

Not that simple.  Cooking is more than the sum of its ingredients.

Exactly, I know I could just eat some vegetables, but I want the food to taste good.

We were talking about Indian food in the cooking thread, is that similar to Hare Krishna food? The spices in Indian food are intimidating. Not because they are too hot, but they are so different, and there are so many, and I don't know what they all taste like.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 13, 2018, 01:25:15 PM
There are areas in America where the private hunting of certain species is illegal.... so when their populations get too high, the gov. Spends tax $$$ for guys to go up in helicopters and "thin the numbers" sometimes they take the meat and feed the poor, sometimes they get a bulldozer and bury them....

If bears and dogs eat their pray alive, asshole first, why is it bad for private hunters to hunt controlled numbers and pay a duck ton to do so? (Which is one of the main sources of habitat conservation funds)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 01:30:05 PM
Dashing? Don't you mean smashing? Or banging? Or hitting?
No, they dash them onto rocks until they die.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 01:30:58 PM
If bears and dogs eat their pray alive, asshole first, why is it bad for private hunters to hunt controlled numbers and pay a duck ton to do so? (Which is one of the main sources of habitat conservation funds)
Shouldn't we, as humans, at the top of evolution, be above bears and dogs?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 01:32:59 PM
There are areas in America where the private hunting of certain species is illegal.... so when their populations get too high, the gov. Spends tax $$$ for guys to go up in helicopters and "thin the numbers" sometimes they take the meat and feed the poor, sometimes they get a bulldozer and bury them....

If bears and dogs eat their pray alive, asshole first, why is it bad for private hunters to hunt controlled numbers and pay a duck ton to do so? (Which is one of the main sources of habitat conservation funds)
Since when do predators eat their pray alive? Also what you're saying doesn't make sense, you say "of certain species", as far as I know that's usually endangered ones, why do they feel like they have to thin out the population of endagered species? Also, it's ok for predators to do it because it's the only way they can survive. Oh, and they're not humans, you can't expect them to understand morality.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 13, 2018, 01:36:34 PM
Dog and bear species do not kill their pray before they start eating.... look it up

Some dog packs will allow a moose (for instance) to live for days as they eat asshole first so the remainder of the doesnt spoil (speculation for cause)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 13, 2018, 01:44:46 PM
Dog and bear species do not kill their pray before they start eating.... look it up

Some dog packs will allow a moose (for instance) to live for days as they eat asshole first so the remainder of the doesnt spoil (speculation for cause)
That doesn't make sense. If you have a source that supports it share it. I know some hyenas do it, but they definitely don't wait for days. That wouldn't make any sense, the moose would die within a few hours, or it would just leave.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: FalseProphet on July 13, 2018, 02:48:09 PM
Dog and bear species do not kill their pray before they start eating.... look it up

Some dog packs will allow a moose (for instance) to live for days as they eat asshole first so the remainder of the doesnt spoil (speculation for cause)
That doesn't make sense. If you have a source that supports it share it. I know some hyenas do it, but they definitely don't wait for days. That wouldn't make any sense, the moose would die within a few hours, or it would just leave.

The way canines kill is indeed barbaric. They bite anywhere, they do not have an instinct to set there bite on a particular place. But I also do not believe that they consciously allow their prey to live for days.

Felines kill almost in an instant. They have the instinct to bite in the neck first. On pictures the way a lion holds its prey reminds me on the way a lover holds his beloved.

(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/128/590x/secondary/159099.jpg)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 13, 2018, 03:05:17 PM
Shouldn't we, as humans, at the top of evolution, be above bears and dogs?

You have the huevos to say this after giving me shit for saying "top of the food chain?" Do you not understand that your statement is immensely more ridiculous because it implies evolution has a goal of some sort?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 13, 2018, 03:22:11 PM
Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 13, 2018, 04:16:59 PM
Dog and bear species do not kill their pray before they start eating.... look it up

Some dog packs will allow a moose (for instance) to live for days as they eat asshole first so the remainder of the doesnt spoil (speculation for cause)
That doesn't make sense. If you have a source that supports it share it. I know some hyenas do it, but they definitely don't wait for days. That wouldn't make any sense, the moose would die within a few hours, or it would just leave.

They break the animals back legs.... again, one story in particular
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 13, 2018, 09:37:32 PM

Some dog packs will allow a moose (for instance) to live for days as they eat asshole first . . .

 >:(
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 13, 2018, 11:17:45 PM
Shouldn't we, as humans, at the top of evolution, be above bears and dogs?

You have the huevos to say this after giving me shit for saying "top of the food chain?" Do you not understand that your statement is immensely more ridiculous because it implies evolution has a goal of some sort?
Those are vastly different things. I'm talking about brain power, self awareness and the ability to judge morally.
You didn't adress my point by the way.

Also, what makes you think I implied that evolution has a goal?
(I just want to say this here, even though it's not directly relevant: scientists often talk about how evolution wants something or has a goal. This often makes it easier to understand evolution, and everybody already knows that evolution doesn't have a goal or anything like that).
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 14, 2018, 02:48:24 AM
Shouldn't we, as humans, at the top of evolution, be above bears and dogs?

You have the huevos to say this after giving me shit for saying "top of the food chain?" Do you not understand that your statement is immensely more ridiculous because it implies evolution has a goal of some sort?
Those are vastly different things. I'm talking about brain power, self awareness and the ability to judge morally.
You didn't adress my point by the way.

Also, what makes you think I implied that evolution has a goal?
(I just want to say this here, even though it's not directly relevant: scientists often talk about how evolution wants something or has a goal. This often makes it easier to understand evolution, and everybody already knows that evolution doesn't have a goal or anything like that).

Not sure I agree with the assertion that evolution doesn't have a goal,  the goal of evolution is genetic survival,  genes are the drivers, not the organism, the organism is just an expression of the genetic makeup. 

Replication is the goal.   Or in Wesker's case, to eventually, one day, perhaps,  get laid.  :)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 14, 2018, 03:23:59 AM
Not sure I agree with the assertion that evolution doesn't have a goal,  the goal of evolution is genetic survival,  genes are the drivers, not the organism, the organism is just an expression of the genetic makeup. 

Replication is the goal.
In my opinion evolution is simply a process. Evolution has no brain or anything like that, and thus no goal. Evolution just happens based on the circumstances, randomness et cetera. Evolution having a 'goal' would imply that there was sort of a 'higher force' that is leading evolution (towards that goal).
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 14, 2018, 04:00:07 AM
Not sure I agree with the assertion that evolution doesn't have a goal,  the goal of evolution is genetic survival,  genes are the drivers, not the organism, the organism is just an expression of the genetic makeup. 

Replication is the goal.
In my opinion evolution is simply a process. Evolution has no brain or anything like that, and thus no goal. Evolution just happens based on the circumstances, randomness et cetera. Evolution having a 'goal' would imply that there was sort of a 'higher force' that is leading evolution (towards that goal).

The goal is simply to replicate,  failure to replicate is extinction.    ( Not good news for Wesker )
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 14, 2018, 06:16:27 AM
Shouldn't we, as humans, at the top of evolution, be above bears and dogs?

You have the huevos to say this after giving me shit for saying "top of the food chain?" Do you not understand that your statement is immensely more ridiculous because it implies evolution has a goal of some sort?
Those are vastly different things. I'm talking about brain power, self awareness and the ability to judge morally.
You didn't adress my point by the way.

Also, what makes you think I implied that evolution has a goal?
(I just want to say this here, even though it's not directly relevant: scientists often talk about how evolution wants something or has a goal. This often makes it easier to understand evolution, and everybody already knows that evolution doesn't have a goal or anything like that).

You said "at the top of evolution." There is no top of evolution.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: The Real Celine Dion on July 14, 2018, 07:07:00 AM
Wesker is the pinnacle of evolution.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 14, 2018, 07:59:08 AM
Shouldn't we, as humans, at the top of evolution, be above bears and dogs?

You have the huevos to say this after giving me shit for saying "top of the food chain?" Do you not understand that your statement is immensely more ridiculous because it implies evolution has a goal of some sort?
Those are vastly different things. I'm talking about brain power, self awareness and the ability to judge morally.
You didn't adress my point by the way.

Also, what makes you think I implied that evolution has a goal?
(I just want to say this here, even though it's not directly relevant: scientists often talk about how evolution wants something or has a goal. This often makes it easier to understand evolution, and everybody already knows that evolution doesn't have a goal or anything like that).

You said "at the top of evolution." There is no top of evolution.
Yeah well, I guess technically you are correct.
But I think it is okay to call our mind and consciousness 'top of evolution' at least in a philosophical way.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 14, 2018, 06:52:02 PM

Some dog packs will allow a moose (for instance) to live for days as they eat asshole first . . .

 >:(


Ahahah
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 15, 2018, 06:35:05 PM
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.

Why is it morally wrong to kill an animal, especially for food, pest and population control?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 15, 2018, 06:37:11 PM
DNS, are you vegan? Stop murdering the broccoli, you monster.

#broccolilivesmatter

#savethebroccoli

#thethingreenline
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Luke 22:35-38 on July 15, 2018, 06:40:25 PM
I wouldn't mind having vegetarian meals sometimes, but I don't know how to cook that way. I know I could learn.
For a start, just leave the meat away and you have a vegetarian meal.
If you want to be more funky, you can add some tofu and all other sort of soja stuff, cheese etc.

You are one sick Swede.

That I agree. What psychopath would eat tofu?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Shifter on July 15, 2018, 09:03:13 PM
How is this.

I abhor killing whales but there are actually times I don't

For example, Japan travelling half way around the world to the Antarctic to kill hundreds of whales to add to their non food shortage problem is reprehensible.

Some random tribe in Greenland killing a few whales will provide food security to the community for the entire winter.

The end result in both is dead whales, but you can see how one is clearly less morally bankrupt than the other.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 15, 2018, 10:30:54 PM
@luke: I could answer your question, but obviously you are not interested in a serious discusssion. Also it's interesting to see that you don't consider humans as animals.

@shifter: I agree with your last post.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: markjo on July 16, 2018, 07:01:11 AM
Hunting here in Florida serves more than one purpose. It controls the population (whatever the animal)...
I think that's a point that's getting lost in this thread.  In a lot of areas, humans have wiped out the indigenous apex predators, so prey animals like deer can easily over-populate if their populations are not managed by hunting.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 16, 2018, 08:11:19 AM
Hunting here in Florida serves more than one purpose. It controls the population (whatever the animal)...
I think that's a point that's getting lost in this thread.  In a lot of areas, humans have wiped out the indigenous apex predators, so prey animals like deer can easily over-populate if their populations are not managed by hunting.

Yep, this is sadly true. Many wild areas of Florida have been drained, paved over, turned into amusement parks, turned into massive suburban housing, etc. The wild animals that are left have no where to go. There are very few panthers left, so the deer need to be thinned. Hogs are not native to the Americas, and they breed like mad, they have no natural predators except humans.

Also, is it the apocalypse? I agree with Shitler.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: hoppy on July 16, 2018, 07:12:48 PM
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.


Down here in the South, most people hunt deer and keep the meat frozen to eat on throughout the year. Plus it helps keep the deer population in check.

Same thing in Northeastern South Canada.
Are you sure you're not in West of Northeastern south Canada.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: boydster on July 16, 2018, 07:17:43 PM
You could also control the human population, and reduce the chance of a human running over a deer, while greatly reducing pollution.

Or we could just not kill and find morally correct solutions.
But I get it - those are not as simple & easy as taking your gun out and go shooting.


Down here in the South, most people hunt deer and keep the meat frozen to eat on throughout the year. Plus it helps keep the deer population in check.

Same thing in Northeastern South Canada.
Are you sure you're not in West of Northeastern south Canada.

Presently, I'm just a smidge south of Northeastern South Canada. In fact, I'm sure most people would just consider it Northeastern South Canada still, but not NESC purists. That said, I spent most of my life in Northeastern South Canada. It is my ancestral homeland.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 17, 2018, 08:16:14 AM
Where do you draw the line on which life is sacred and which isn't? Is it by weight? Is a wild boar more valuable than a grasshopper, or a swarm of locus? Should I feel bad everytime I gargle with Listerine or commit mass murder with hand sanitizer or pinacilin?

Agriculture kills tons of animals.... those huge combines just slaughter whatever doesnt run away (baby deer, rodentd) should we not farm grain and corn?

If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers... there is a high fence operation over to hunt operation that got shut done because of public pressure.... it goes done, poachers some in and merch every animal that was protected
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 17, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
Where do you draw the line on which life is sacred and which isn't? Is it by weight? Is a wild boar more valuable than a grasshopper, or a swarm of locus? Should I feel bad everytime I gargle with Listerine or commit mass murder with hand sanitizer or pinacilin?

Agriculture kills tons of animals.... those huge combines just slaughter whatever doesnt run away (baby deer, rodentd) should we not farm grain and corn?

If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers... there is a high fence operation over to hunt operation that got shut done because of public pressure.... it goes done, poachers some in and merch every animal that was protected
Bad arguments. I'm not home right now, I'll explain later.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 17, 2018, 08:44:04 AM
Where do you draw the line on which life is sacred and which isn't? Is it by weight? Is a wild boar more valuable than a grasshopper, or a swarm of locus? Should I feel bad everytime I gargle with Listerine or commit mass murder with hand sanitizer or pinacilin?

Agriculture kills tons of animals.... those huge combines just slaughter whatever doesnt run away (baby deer, rodentd) should we not farm grain and corn?

If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers... there is a high fence operation over to hunt operation that got shut done because of public pressure.... it goes done, poachers some in and merch every animal that was protected
Bad arguments. I'm not home right now, I'll explain later.

I really don't care.... save your time....

This is not the forum to change my mind on
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 17, 2018, 08:48:57 AM
Where do you draw the line on which life is sacred and which isn't? Is it by weight? Is a wild boar more valuable than a grasshopper, or a swarm of locus? Should I feel bad everytime I gargle with Listerine or commit mass murder with hand sanitizer or pinacilin?

Agriculture kills tons of animals.... those huge combines just slaughter whatever doesnt run away (baby deer, rodentd) should we not farm grain and corn?

If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers... there is a high fence operation over to hunt operation that got shut done because of public pressure.... it goes done, poachers some in and merch every animal that was protected
Bad arguments. I'm not home right now, I'll explain later.

I really don't care.... save your time....

This is not the forum to change my mind on
Considering the quality of your arguments, it doesn't surprise me that pure ignorance is one of your characteristics.

Seriously, if you're not open for a discussion, fuck off and go rant on twitter.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 17, 2018, 09:22:27 AM
Where do you draw the line on which life is sacred and which isn't? Is it by weight? Is a wild boar more valuable than a grasshopper, or a swarm of locus? Should I feel bad everytime I gargle with Listerine or commit mass murder with hand sanitizer or pinacilin?

Agriculture kills tons of animals.... those huge combines just slaughter whatever doesnt run away (baby deer, rodentd) should we not farm grain and corn?

If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers... there is a high fence operation over to hunt operation that got shut done because of public pressure.... it goes done, poachers some in and merch every animal that was protected
We already talked about the safari huntee issue. As for where you draw the line, there's no particular line. It has more to do with how sentient the animal is. As I said before, I don't give a fuck about, say, a mosquito, but killing a cow is wrong, and killing, say, an elephant, is even worse.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 17, 2018, 09:35:48 AM
Where do you draw the line on which life is sacred and which isn't? Is it by weight? Is a wild boar more valuable than a grasshopper, or a swarm of locus? Should I feel bad everytime I gargle with Listerine or commit mass murder with hand sanitizer or pinacilin?

Agriculture kills tons of animals.... those huge combines just slaughter whatever doesnt run away (baby deer, rodentd) should we not farm grain and corn?

If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers... there is a high fence operation over to hunt operation that got shut done because of public pressure.... it goes done, poachers some in and merch every animal that was protected
We already talked about the safari huntee issue. As for where you draw the line, there's no particular line. It has more to do with how sentient the animal is. As I said before, I don't give a fuck about, say, a mosquito, but killing a cow is wrong, and killing, say, an elephant, is even worse.
I'd say, generally don't harm animals if it's not necessary (self defense*, survival situation etc). I mean, I don't really care if you kill an ant while walking, that's life - it happens. But I still think your kinda sick if you went out and purposely killed ant colonies.
The bigger an animal/the bigger its brain/the smarter an animal the worse it is to kill it. The only line I'd draw is between humans - not humans and that would be the line between 'you belong into prison for a long time' and 'I disagree with what you do and think it's wrong'.

(*I'd consider killing mosquitos as self defense)
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 17, 2018, 09:51:07 AM
Yeah it's not very nice when people destroy ant colonies for no reason at all. But it's not like I'm gonna care if you destroy a colony they made in your kitchen.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 17, 2018, 09:52:53 AM
What about wasps? Is it okay to murder them, they are evil.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 17, 2018, 09:55:41 AM
What about wasps? Is it okay to murder them, they are evil.
Fuck wasps. Bees are kinda cool. But wasps are disgusting failed bees.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 17, 2018, 09:59:46 AM
Once I mowed the yard and drove the lawn tractor into the barn and shut if off. I sat there for a minute and leaned my head back and looked at the rafters, there was the biggest wasp nest I'd ever seen hanging up there over my head. I had a true instinctive fear response, I think. My hair stood up, and I got chill bumps.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 17, 2018, 10:05:22 AM
I just wanted to add something to this, because I think it's important:
If allowing rich assholes to pay 1 million dollars to kill a high level predator.... that money is used to protect the animals from poachers...

In my opinion, one should avoid to (financially) bargain moral values ( as long as it is possible).
Once you completely rationalize moral values and bargain them, you can come up with really ugly examples. I can provide some if you can't come up with those yourself.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 17, 2018, 10:08:26 AM
Besides, if those people really cared about protecting animals they'd donate without needing to kill an animal.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 17, 2018, 11:44:03 AM
Besides, if those people really cared about protecting animals they'd donate without needing to kill an animal.

In 2013, the most recent year for which complete data are available, hunters spent about $821 million on licenses and permits and almost $813 million in excise taxes for a total financial contribution of around $1.65 billion to wildlife conservation.

I'm sure the care more about the animal and have "donated" more to their protection than anyone here....

“In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen.”
              -someone special
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Space Cowgirl on July 17, 2018, 11:49:48 AM
Have you gone and killed a lion or something? You seem a bit defensive about it.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 17, 2018, 11:53:08 AM
Nope, almost killed my cat....

Those are American stats up there....

But hunting and hunters keep the populations alive.... poachers kill for every last bit of profit
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: markjo on July 17, 2018, 12:12:56 PM
We already talked about the safari huntee issue. As for where you draw the line, there's no particular line. It has more to do with how sentient the animal is. As I said before, I don't give a fuck about, say, a mosquito, but killing a cow is wrong, and killing, say, an elephant, is even worse.
Cattle are raised to be killed and eaten.  That's their function and not eating them denies them their very purpose in life.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Definitely Not Swedish on July 17, 2018, 01:39:59 PM
We already talked about the safari huntee issue. As for where you draw the line, there's no particular line. It has more to do with how sentient the animal is. As I said before, I don't give a fuck about, say, a mosquito, but killing a cow is wrong, and killing, say, an elephant, is even worse.
Cattle are raised to be killed and eaten.  That's their function and not eating them denies them their very purpose in life.
Slaves were raised to work and then die when they get useless. That was their function and not enslaving them denies them their very purpose in life.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 17, 2018, 02:14:27 PM
We already talked about the safari huntee issue. As for where you draw the line, there's no particular line. It has more to do with how sentient the animal is. As I said before, I don't give a fuck about, say, a mosquito, but killing a cow is wrong, and killing, say, an elephant, is even worse.
Cattle are raised to be killed and eaten.  That's their function and not eating them denies them their very purpose in life.
Explain that to the cows. I'm sure they will think you have a point.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Pezevenk on July 17, 2018, 02:15:51 PM
Once I mowed the yard and drove the lawn tractor into the barn and shut if off. I sat there for a minute and leaned my head back and looked at the rafters, there was the biggest wasp nest I'd ever seen hanging up there over my head. I had a true instinctive fear response, I think. My hair stood up, and I got chill bumps.
Yeah, wasp nests are kinda scary. A wasp once made a nest on a book in my bedroom. It's crazy how fast it built it.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: markjo on July 17, 2018, 02:40:24 PM
We already talked about the safari huntee issue. As for where you draw the line, there's no particular line. It has more to do with how sentient the animal is. As I said before, I don't give a fuck about, say, a mosquito, but killing a cow is wrong, and killing, say, an elephant, is even worse.
Cattle are raised to be killed and eaten.  That's their function and not eating them denies them their very purpose in life.
Explain that to the cows. I'm sure they will think you have a point.
Skip ahead to about 1:15
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: Bullwinkle on July 17, 2018, 05:47:02 PM

“In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen.”
              -someone special

Ted Nugent?
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 22, 2018, 07:56:54 PM

“In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen.”
              -someone special

Ted Nugent?

He didn't say that first... but he would certainly agree. And I've never heard anyone speak with more reverence about the animals he hunts. As an avid bow hunter, he ensures the animals he shoots suffer as little as possible... which is more than you can say about the dog and bear species that start consuming their pray while they are still screaming

Don't think nature is not absolutely brutal
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: markjo on July 22, 2018, 08:47:51 PM

“In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen.”
              -someone special

Ted Nugent?
Close.  Teddy Roosevelt.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: disputeone on July 25, 2018, 03:11:53 AM
LOL,  they got what they deserved,  but don't confuse that with hunting.   I used to go rabbit shooting,  and fox hunting.   Not so much these days.  If you live on a farm you grow up knowing where your meat comes from.  Townies like shifter would probably starve to death if they had to kill their own steaks.

No you didn't. I grew up on a farm and no you didn't.

You are just a liar.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 25, 2018, 04:21:46 AM
LOL,  they got what they deserved,  but don't confuse that with hunting.   I used to go rabbit shooting,  and fox hunting.   Not so much these days.  If you live on a farm you grow up knowing where your meat comes from.  Townies like shifter would probably starve to death if they had to kill their own steaks.

No you didn't. I grew up on a farm and no you didn't.

You are just a liar.

Prove it.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: disputeone on July 25, 2018, 04:25:56 AM
Shot any roos with a 303 riding on the back of a ute?

I'll play your games, why not.
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 25, 2018, 05:51:21 AM
Shot any roos with a 303 riding on the back of a ute?

I'll play your games, why not.

Used to go spotlighting foxes from the back of a ute,  shotguns only,  never shot a roo,  we don't get many round here.   You'd have to be an idiot to shoot a 303 from the back of a ute anyway.


Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: RocketSauce on July 25, 2018, 06:26:22 AM
Australia and all the animals from it are a low down dirty lie
Title: Re: What do you think about Hunting?
Post by: JerkFace on July 25, 2018, 08:14:42 PM
Australia and all the animals from it are a low down dirty lie

Some Australians,  are liars,  we have proven that already.