The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: is_the_earth_flat on February 14, 2018, 12:49:20 PM

Title: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 14, 2018, 12:49:20 PM
Why can't I see the Sun at night with my telescope, if the Earth is flat?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 14, 2018, 06:27:00 PM
Why are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: wise on February 15, 2018, 04:29:18 AM
Your sight is limited.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Orozimbo on February 15, 2018, 02:04:51 PM
Your sight is limited.


even using a telescope?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 03:25:00 PM
Your sight is limited.

Yes.


even using a telescope?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:01:07 PM
Can you show me how my sight is limited (some proof) or are you going to deny everything I say and have no evidence.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:02:19 PM
And if my sight is limited how can I see other planets, galaxies and nebulae.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
Why does a mountain peak vanish of in the distance in a greyish blue? 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:11:03 PM
Because of a curve. If my sight was limited then all of the planets and other deep sky objects would need to be closer then the sun? And if the earth was flat I could see the sun on the other side of the Earth.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:11:41 PM
And can you explain to me how my sight is limited?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:19:03 PM
I should probably explain trigonometry to you first.  When the sun is above you, that is the closest trigonometric point that it will be.  When it is far from, trigonometrically, it has a greater value.  When it is close, you can see it.  When it is far, you can not. 

Why do I have to teach RE'ers about simple perspective? 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:20:30 PM
Still, if I zoom into with my telescope I should see the Sun.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:26:08 PM
Do you not understand that you can not see infinitely through air?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:27:22 PM
I do but the sun is a big and bright source of light so I should see something like a blob or something.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:31:28 PM
The sun is shinning on that mountain, yet it still disappears after a few dozen kilometers.  Go figure. 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:34:32 PM
What are you talking about? On what mountain?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:38:40 PM
All mountains disappear with distance. 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 15, 2018, 04:41:39 PM
Yes because of a curve, not trigonometry or air.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 15, 2018, 04:56:12 PM
Are these mountains disappearing because of the curve?

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1a/30/db/1a30db9f934587358e3a15b7b209dd08--story-inspiration-pantone.jpg)
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 12:26:47 AM
Those mountains are disappearing because of fog. Let's stop talking about mountains because I didn't ask if I could see Mt. Everest from Europe, I asked why can't I see the sun at night.
If it's cloudy outside you still can see that something is shining through the clouds. Or when you are driving and there is fog, the first thing you would see on the road would be the lights and then the car.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Danang on February 16, 2018, 01:47:43 AM
Day time = the sun and or sunlight can reach our place, because the sun is high enough to escape from the 'cover' namely the CLOUD.
If the sun is not high enough, it will be covered by the clouds.
Night condition is not due to the sun distance is being too far. Night occurs when the sun and or its light being covered by the clouds.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 01:49:28 AM
So if the weather was clear all around the world there would be no night or what?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 01:56:47 AM
And if I would fly in a plane above clouds when it is night, then it would become day or something else?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Danang on February 16, 2018, 02:19:49 AM
"So if the weather was clear all around the world there would be no night or what?"

>> Yes, there would be days all the time.



"And if I would fly in a plane above clouds when it is night, then it would become day or something else?"

>> As long as there is no cover between us and the sun, the sun will be visible. In the air, there is hardly reflection of the sun light, but in the land, reflections of the sunlight in the surroundings (including realm above us: cloud, air etc.) create bright views.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 02:52:45 AM
How do you explain this (CGI maybe?):
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 16, 2018, 03:52:14 AM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air. 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on February 16, 2018, 04:18:36 AM
If night was caused by the sun vanishing behind clouds, atmospheric absorption, ext.
It would mean that our day / night cycle (i.e, sunrise/sunset times) would vastly change from day to day as atmospheric conditions change.

When its cloudy over the sea, the sun should "set" earlier than if it was clear.
Our weather patterns change rapidly over a 24 hour period.

Yet in reality we see the same sunset and sunrise times every day (between 2 days, obviously there are different times in different seasons) regardless of cloud cover, be it overhead or 100's of km away.

Your hypothesis does not make sense.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 09:24:46 AM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air. 

I know It can't but if I look with my telescope at the point where the sun is I should be able to see something. The sky on that part would be brighter then the surrounding sky.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Macarios on February 16, 2018, 10:43:53 AM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air.

There are two main explanations why we don't see the sun any more at sunset.
One is that sun light can't reach us any more because it has limited range.
Another is that sun has shielding cone making it spotlight abd limiting the area where sun light can be seen.

In both cases at sunset, when we can't see the sun any more, it s because we are at the end of the area, and sunlight can't reach beyond.

None of those two "explanations" can correctly describe the real life observation.
When we are down on the ground and can't see the sun any more, the upper part of mountain behind us still receives sun light.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ia8k20.png)
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 10:47:49 AM
If light has limited range how can I see stars (I think that stars in your universe are not real.). And did you ever observe that "shield"
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Here to laugh at you on February 16, 2018, 12:23:24 PM
We can't see the sun at night because it's obscured by the curvature of the planet.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 16, 2018, 01:00:17 PM
I know that the Earth is round I wanted to see if they had a good argument about the flat Earth. But it seems that they don't.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: simba on February 16, 2018, 01:26:23 PM
Why are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away?

Because they aren't as bright as the sun
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 16, 2018, 02:24:52 PM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air.

There are two main explanations why we don't see the sun any more at sunset.
One is that sun light can't reach us any more because it has limited range.
Another is that sun has shielding cone making it spotlight abd limiting the area where sun light can be seen.

In both cases at sunset, when we can't see the sun any more, it s because we are at the end of the area, and sunlight can't reach beyond.

None of those two "explanations" can correctly describe the real life observation.
When we are down on the ground and can't see the sun any more, the upper part of mountain behind us still receives sun light.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ia8k20.png)

The top of the mountain is in less dense air.  It makes perfect sense that light traveling through less dense air will travel farther.  Do you people even think before your type? 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Lonegranger on February 16, 2018, 02:26:20 PM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air.

There are two main explanations why we don't see the sun any more at sunset.
One is that sun light can't reach us any more because it has limited range.
Another is that sun has shielding cone making it spotlight abd limiting the area where sun light can be seen.

In both cases at sunset, when we can't see the sun any more, it s because we are at the end of the area, and sunlight can't reach beyond.

None of those two "explanations" can correctly describe the real life observation.
When we are down on the ground and can't see the sun any more, the upper part of mountain behind us still receives sun light.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ia8k20.png)

The top of the mountain is in less dense air.  It makes perfect sense that light traveling through less dense air will travel farther.  Do you people even think before your type?
You think?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Danang on February 16, 2018, 05:07:59 PM
If night was caused by the sun vanishing behind clouds, atmospheric absorption, ext.
It would mean that our day / night cycle (i.e, sunrise/sunset times) would vastly change from day to day as atmospheric conditions change.

When its cloudy over the sea, the sun should "set" earlier than if it was clear.
Our weather patterns change rapidly over a 24 hour period.

Yet in reality we see the same sunset and sunrise times every day (between 2 days, obviously there are different times in different seasons) regardless of cloud cover, be it overhead or 100's of km away.

Your hypothesis does not make sense.

With that logic, the sun 'rises' and 'sets' multiple times in a day. 10 times? 20 times? I didn't count it.

If the sun is covered by the clouds, it might disappear or still visible with weaker illumination.
The covering cloud is not necessarily visible due to the power of sun's radiation.

The cloud structure gives the various sun's appearance when viewed from various places. I'm still observing this phenomenon.

FYI: From my location (Jakarta, 6° South) around 6 AM the sun is 'rising' above the clouds. I don't have to go to the shore to observe it. We *always* have relatively fixed duration of the night & day. Approximately 12 hours : 12 hours, everyday all year long.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Danang on February 16, 2018, 05:15:07 PM
Australians even know better about "sunrise above the clouds".

Ehm..  :o
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Danang on February 16, 2018, 05:22:49 PM
Precisely : SUNRIVES.

("Sunarrive" is okay, but it's only for those with terribly low IQ or people usually call it: "troll".)  :o
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Macarios on February 16, 2018, 09:44:13 PM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air.

There are two main explanations why we don't see the sun any more at sunset.
One is that sun light can't reach us any more because it has limited range.
Another is that sun has shielding cone making it spotlight abd limiting the area where sun light can be seen.

In both cases at sunset, when we can't see the sun any more, it s because we are at the end of the area, and sunlight can't reach beyond.

None of those two "explanations" can correctly describe the real life observation.
When we are down on the ground and can't see the sun any more, the upper part of mountain behind us still receives sun light.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ia8k20.png)

The top of the mountain is in less dense air.  It makes perfect sense that light traveling through less dense air will travel farther.  Do you people even think before your type?

And then from there it comes down to the same higher density where can't be seen.

You are trying to blur the fact that in both cases light would travel from Sun at density A,
to observer at density B, once directly (shorter path, can't see it), and once around (longer path, can see it).
Total number of molecules between Sun and observer is lower along the shorter path.

Not to speak of relatively sharp edge of the shadow of horizon.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: is_the_earth_flat on February 17, 2018, 05:36:21 AM
Because of perspective the Sun wouldn't go below the horizon.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 17, 2018, 12:58:41 PM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air.

There are two main explanations why we don't see the sun any more at sunset.
One is that sun light can't reach us any more because it has limited range.
Another is that sun has shielding cone making it spotlight abd limiting the area where sun light can be seen.

In both cases at sunset, when we can't see the sun any more, it s because we are at the end of the area, and sunlight can't reach beyond.

None of those two "explanations" can correctly describe the real life observation.
When we are down on the ground and can't see the sun any more, the upper part of mountain behind us still receives sun light.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ia8k20.png)

The top of the mountain is in less dense air.  It makes perfect sense that light traveling through less dense air will travel farther.  Do you people even think before your type?

And then from there it comes down to the same higher density where can't be seen.

You are trying to blur the fact that in both cases light would travel from Sun at density A,
to observer at density B, once directly (shorter path, can't see it), and once around (longer path, can see it).
Total number of molecules between Sun and observer is lower along the shorter path.

Not to speak of relatively sharp edge of the shadow of horizon.

Your drawing is nowhere even close to being to scale.  Come back when you can use something better than MS Paint in a serious scientific discussion. 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 17, 2018, 01:11:54 PM
Deal!
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Macarios on February 17, 2018, 01:13:09 PM
It is about distance and air density.  Light can not travel infinitely through air.

There are two main explanations why we don't see the sun any more at sunset.
One is that sun light can't reach us any more because it has limited range.
Another is that sun has shielding cone making it spotlight abd limiting the area where sun light can be seen.

In both cases at sunset, when we can't see the sun any more, it s because we are at the end of the area, and sunlight can't reach beyond.

None of those two "explanations" can correctly describe the real life observation.
When we are down on the ground and can't see the sun any more, the upper part of mountain behind us still receives sun light.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2ia8k20.png)

The top of the mountain is in less dense air.  It makes perfect sense that light traveling through less dense air will travel farther.  Do you people even think before your type?

And then from there it comes down to the same higher density where can't be seen.

You are trying to blur the fact that in both cases light would travel from Sun at density A,
to observer at density B, once directly (shorter path, can't see it), and once around (longer path, can see it).
Total number of molecules between Sun and observer is lower along the shorter path.

Not to speak of relatively sharp edge of the shadow of horizon.

Your drawing is nowhere even close to being to scale.  Come back when you can use something better than MS Paint in a serious scientific discussion.

I will when you grow into something serious.

Your sabotage attempt is merely childish.
Attempt to show this to scale would lead to representing those 6000 miles as 6000 pixels, and those 2 miles as 2 pixels.
You know that, but you hope your distraction wouldn't get too obvious.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 17, 2018, 01:19:10 PM
Your 1 mile length is about 1/3 of your 6000 mile length, and we are supposed to take you seriously why?  You might as well have drawn a circle and proclaimed it is proof that the Earth is round.  You roundies get sillier by the day.  Now, I am off to do some serious research, while you dabble with MS Paint.  Good day, sir!
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on February 17, 2018, 02:02:55 PM
its a graphic representation; i.e. not drawn to scale, but I am sure you could have figured that out.
Although I agree, 1/6000 th difference is not really a lot to prove anything.

I still fail to see how air density blocking out sunlight to simulate night conditions.
Clouds disperse/block sun light at a much higher degree than clear air at 101kpa. This would mean that the sun from an acute angle would dim a lot more under cloud cover.

If your day/night cycle was dependent on atmospheric conditions, the sunset and sunrise times would be as unpredictable as the weather.

In South Africa on the flat earth map, the sun is closer to us during sunrise in summer as it is at midnight in winter. How does that play in your theory?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: rabinoz on February 17, 2018, 02:19:29 PM
Why are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away?
Really? And where do you live that "are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away"!

Much of the time quite clearly quite "a few dozen miles". Look at
(https://www.goodfreephotos.com/albums/australia/queensland/other-queensland/city-on-the-gold-coast-of-queensland-australia.jpg)
City on the Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia
By Good Free Photos (http://www.goodfreephotos.com/)
The mountain in the background, just right of centre,  I believe Mt Warning, about 47 km, as the crow (and we have plenty) flies (and we have plenty of those too outback!).

Not only that but looking at scenery the view is impeded by the atmosphere all the way.
But just after sunset, the flat earth sun would be hidden by only the equivalent of 30 or so kilometres of atmosphere.
With the brilliance of the sun, it should easily be seen with a telescope at that distance. Seeing the extremely bright sun against a black background should be easy.

Look here is Mercury, close to the horizon. Mercury is immensely less bright than the sun, yet is always close to the sun:
(http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-company-10-10-2015-Niko-Powe-sq-e1444479519477.jpg)
Niko Powe in Illinois wrote on October 10:
“Venus, Regulus, Mars, Jupiter, the moon, Mercury,
and me up in Kewanee this morning!”
         (http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-mercury-10-9-2015-Ashley-Fuggle-e1444477352259.jpg)
Mercury was much harder to see than the other planets,
but Ashley Fuggle caught Mercury on the morning of October 9!
Image taken from Folkestone Kent UK.
Strange how Mercury and Venus can be seen close to the horizon, but there is no sign of the immensely brighter sun.

Besides all that, as you very well know, the sun does not "fade from view", but appears to be hidden behind something as in the many sunset videos on YouTube:

Spendid Green Flash - Sunset 18 fev 2015, hoporion
Still I guess all flat earthers
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1) wear blinkers when outside to avoid being enlightened by uncomfortable evidence! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1)
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: rabinoz on February 17, 2018, 02:23:24 PM
Your drawing is nowhere even close to being to scale.  Come back when you can use something better than MS Paint in a serious scientific discussion.
Positively brilliant, Mr jroa! And would you offer suggestions as to how a scale drawing would show anything at all?
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 17, 2018, 02:31:10 PM
Why are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away?
Really? And where do you live that "are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away"!

Much of the time quite clearly quite "a few dozen miles". Look at
(https://www.goodfreephotos.com/albums/australia/queensland/other-queensland/city-on-the-gold-coast-of-queensland-australia.jpg)
City on the Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia
By Good Free Photos (http://www.goodfreephotos.com/)
The mountain in the background, just right of centre,  I believe Mt Warning, about 47 km, as the crow (and we have plenty) flies (and we have plenty of those too outback!).

Not only that but looking at scenery the view is impeded by the atmosphere all the way.
But just after sunset, the flat earth sun would be hidden by only the equivalent of 30 or so kilometres of atmosphere.
With the brilliance of the sun, it should easily be seen with a telescope at that distance. Seeing the extremely bright sun against a black background should be easy.

Look here is Mercury, close to the horizon. Mercury is immensely less bright than the sun, yet is always close to the sun:
(http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-company-10-10-2015-Niko-Powe-sq-e1444479519477.jpg)
Niko Powe in Illinois wrote on October 10:
“Venus, Regulus, Mars, Jupiter, the moon, Mercury,
and me up in Kewanee this morning!”
         (http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-mercury-10-9-2015-Ashley-Fuggle-e1444477352259.jpg)
Mercury was much harder to see than the other planets,
but Ashley Fuggle caught Mercury on the morning of October 9!
Image taken from Folkestone Kent UK.
Strange how Mercury and Venus can be seen close to the horizon, but there is no sign of the immensely brighter sun.

Besides all that, as you very well know, the sun does not "fade from view", but appears to be hidden behind something as in the many sunset videos on YouTube:

Spendid Green Flash - Sunset 18 fev 2015, hoporion
Still I guess all flat earthers
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1) wear blinkers when outside to avoid being enlightened by uncomfortable evidence! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1)

47 km is a few dozen miles, last time I checked.  You don't even seem certain where that picture was taken, much less the distance.  But, all that aside for now,  even at that great altitude, in which the air would obviously be thinner than on the ground, the mountains have faded to a dark blue and are about to disappear against the sky, which only stregthens my previous statement. 

Thanks, Mr. rab. 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: MaNaeSWolf on February 17, 2018, 02:40:38 PM
Your drawing is nowhere even close to being to scale.  Come back when you can use something better than MS Paint in a serious scientific discussion.
Positively brilliant, Mr jroa! And would you offer suggestions as to how a scale drawing would show anything at all?

I actually just drew that sketch to scale, unfortunately I cant show it here, because it looks just like a simple triangle.
Interestingly enough though, at that distance, if the sun moved another 2000km or 2 hours from South Africas position it would double the amount of atmosphere the light has to travel to get to you.
So according to Jroa it should be twice as bright outside from 7:30 am to 9:30 am.
More proof that Flat Earth proponents need to get out some more
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Macarios on February 17, 2018, 02:57:01 PM
You can see Aconcagua, Argentina from Valparaiso, Chile, 160 km away (100 miles).

Left half of the horizon, about middle of that half.

(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/0f/3f/51/cb/great-view-of-the-city.jpg)

(Courtesy of Trip Advisor.)
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 17, 2018, 03:06:15 PM
1.  At that altitude, you should be able to see much farther than at ground level, due to the thin air.

2.  You probably can not take that same picture every day due to changing air density.

3.  The mountains are almost the exact same color as the sky at the top of the picture, meaning that they are about to fade away against the sky.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: rabinoz on February 17, 2018, 05:13:30 PM
Why are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away?
Really? And where do you live that "are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away"!

Much of the time quite clearly quite "a few dozen miles". Look at
(https://www.goodfreephotos.com/albums/australia/queensland/other-queensland/city-on-the-gold-coast-of-queensland-australia.jpg)
City on the Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia
By Good Free Photos (http://www.goodfreephotos.com/)
The mountain in the background, just right of centre,  I believe Mt Warning, about 47 km, as the crow (and we have plenty) flies (and we have plenty of those too outback!).

Not only that but looking at scenery the view is impeded by the atmosphere all the way.
But just after sunset, the flat earth sun would be hidden by only the equivalent of 30 or so kilometres of atmosphere.
With the brilliance of the sun, it should easily be seen with a telescope at that distance. Seeing the extremely bright sun against a black background should be easy.

Look here is Mercury, close to the horizon. Mercury is immensely less bright than the sun, yet is always close to the sun:
(http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-company-10-10-2015-Niko-Powe-sq-e1444479519477.jpg)
Niko Powe in Illinois wrote on October 10:
“Venus, Regulus, Mars, Jupiter, the moon, Mercury,
and me up in Kewanee this morning!”
         (http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-mercury-10-9-2015-Ashley-Fuggle-e1444477352259.jpg)
Mercury was much harder to see than the other planets,
but Ashley Fuggle caught Mercury on the morning of October 9!
Image taken from Folkestone Kent UK.
Strange how Mercury and Venus can be seen close to the horizon, but there is no sign of the immensely brighter sun.

Besides all that, as you very well know, the sun does not "fade from view", but appears to be hidden behind something as in the many sunset videos on YouTube:

Spendid Green Flash - Sunset 18 fev 2015, hoporion
Still I guess all flat earthers
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1) wear blinkers when outside to avoid being enlightened by uncomfortable evidence! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1)

47 km is a few dozen miles, last time I checked.  You don't even seem certain where that picture was taken, much less the distance.  But, all that aside for now,  even at that great altitude, in which the air would obviously be thinner than on the ground, the mountains have faded to a dark blue and are about to disappear against the sky, which only stregthens my previous statement. 

Thanks, Mr. rab.
No problem Mr J Roa. You have stated your displeasure at being called Jroa, so what am I to do?

It says City on the Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia, that and the foreground buildings define the location quite closely.

But you made no comment on how it is possible the see the planet Mercury quite low on the horizon just before dawn or just after sunset.
I imagine that you have some smart excuse for that.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Macarios on February 17, 2018, 05:27:13 PM
1.  At that altitude, you should be able to see much farther than at ground level, due to the thin air.

2.  You probably can not take that same picture every day due to changing air density.

3.  The mountains are almost the exact same color as the sky at the top of the picture, meaning that they are about to fade away against the sky.

1. "that altitude" means what? Valparaiso is at the sea, as you can see if you pay attention to the port / bay.
2. Ofcourse not. Some days will be foggy, some cloudy, if there is fire somewhere in the way it will be smoky, ...
3. Yes, but fade away at "little" more than "couple of dozen of miles".
At sunrise you will see half of the Sun at horizon about 15 degrees to the right (east).
On Flat model Sun should rise about 10 degrees to the left (northeast).
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Son of Orospu on February 17, 2018, 07:10:46 PM
1.  Are you saying that at the altitude in which that picture was taken does not play a part in what can be seen?

2.  Well, then, you people should stop claiming that you can see X distance, then, right?

3.  How many dozen miles are those mountains away from the camera? 
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Googleotomy on February 17, 2018, 08:11:52 PM
Why can't I see the Sun at night with my telescope, if the Earth is flat?

I wish there was more paricipation by flat earthers.
If a "rouund earther" such as myself, steps in with an attempt at a "flat earther" answer,.  they always get censured and called a few names.

But here goes a try ....anyway.

You can't see the sun at night is because :
(preface all of this with "flat earth ideas")
The sun and moon are always at the same height above the earth (some say 3000 miles) and are always directly opposite each other ( always spaced 180 degrees apart). When it is day, you can see the sun. When it is night, you can see the moon.
One reason you can't see the sun at night on a flat earth might be because flat earth says the sun "acts like a spotlight" and shines only directly  down on the earth. You can only see the sun when it over your location. The sun doesn't shine in all directions.
There is a lot more involved, but hopefully a flat earther can give you a better explanation of why you can't see the sun at night on a flat earth.The sun doesn't shine on the moon. The moon makes its own light by "self illumination." Some say there are creatures called "moonshrimp" or "moonshramp" which light up the moon like fireflies or glowworms......Et cetera, et cetera and so forth. As they say "Read the wiki."

Cheers !
googleotomy

Hint: You can't see the sun at night if the earth was flat is because the earth isn't flat........LOL !
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Googleotomy on February 17, 2018, 08:44:42 PM
Why are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away?
Really? And where do you live that "are mountains barely visible just a few dozen miles away"!

Much of the time quite clearly quite "a few dozen miles". Look at
(https://www.goodfreephotos.com/albums/australia/queensland/other-queensland/city-on-the-gold-coast-of-queensland-australia.jpg)
City on the Gold Coast of Queensland, Australia
By Good Free Photos (http://www.goodfreephotos.com/)
The mountain in the background, just right of centre,  I believe Mt Warning, about 47 km, as the crow (and we have plenty) flies (and we have plenty of those too outback!).

Not only that but looking at scenery the view is impeded by the atmosphere all the way.
But just after sunset, the flat earth sun would be hidden by only the equivalent of 30 or so kilometres of atmosphere.
With the brilliance of the sun, it should easily be seen with a telescope at that distance. Seeing the extremely bright sun against a black background should be easy.

Look here is Mercury, close to the horizon. Mercury is immensely less bright than the sun, yet is always close to the sun:
(http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-company-10-10-2015-Niko-Powe-sq-e1444479519477.jpg)
Niko Powe in Illinois wrote on October 10:


“Venus, Regulus, Mars, Jupiter, the moon, Mercury,
and me up in Kewanee this morning!”
         (http://en.es-static.us/upl/2015/10/venus-moon-mercury-10-9-2015-Ashley-Fuggle-e1444477352259.jpg)
Mercury was much harder to see than the other planets,
but Ashley Fuggle caught Mercury on the morning of October 9!
Image taken from Folkestone Kent UK.
Strange how Mercury and Venus can be seen close to the horizon, but there is no sign of the immensely brighter sun.

Besides all that, as you very well know, the sun does not "fade from view", but appears to be hidden behind something as in the many sunset videos on YouTube:

Spendid Green Flash - Sunset 18 fev 2015, hoporion
Still I guess all flat earthers
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1) wear blinkers when outside to avoid being enlightened by uncomfortable evidence! (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nwo67jjo2b5a9bu/smiley_wearing_shades.png?dl=1)

Trivia item :
One of the flat earth idea of the "atmoplane" (flat earth word for atmosphere) limiting how far you can see.
I used to play around with photography. I used infra-red film and filters which eliminated the haze and other atmospheric conditions and the results were you could see objects farther  in the distance in the photos than you could with telescopes or binoculars alone.
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: rabinoz on February 17, 2018, 08:57:03 PM
Trivia item :
One of the flat earth idea of the "atmoplane" (flat earth word for atmosphere) limiting how far you can see.
I used to play around with photography. I used infra-red film and filters which eliminated the haze and other atmospheric conditions and the results were you could see objects farther  in the distance in the photos than you could with telescopes or binoculars alone.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/pclnwb3x1z9nhni/Sarcasm%20151117_LEX_emoji-oxford-dictionary-word-of-year.jpg.CROP.rectangle2-mediumsmall.jpg?dl=1) And did you find this flat earth midnight sun? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/pclnwb3x1z9nhni/Sarcasm%20151117_LEX_emoji-oxford-dictionary-word-of-year.jpg.CROP.rectangle2-mediumsmall.jpg?dl=1)
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Googleotomy on February 17, 2018, 09:24:36 PM
Trivia item :
One of the flat earth idea of the "atmoplane" (flat earth word for atmosphere) limiting how far you can see.
I used to play around with photography. I used infra-red film and filters which eliminated the haze and other atmospheric conditions and the results were you could see objects farther  in the distance in the photos than you could with telescopes or binoculars alone.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/pclnwb3x1z9nhni/Sarcasm%20151117_LEX_emoji-oxford-dictionary-word-of-year.jpg.CROP.rectangle2-mediumsmall.jpg?dl=1) And did you find this flat earth midnight sun? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/pclnwb3x1z9nhni/Sarcasm%20151117_LEX_emoji-oxford-dictionary-word-of-year.jpg.CROP.rectangle2-mediumsmall.jpg?dl=1)
Well..At least, .Not at midnight in Dallas, TX, USA.😆
Also when I was in the Navy I never could "restore with a telescope to full view a ship once it has passed out of view over the horizon.
Must have been those cheap binoculars I bought at the Navy Exchange Store. They didn't have any flat earth brands. 😆
Neither did the Navy have any Navy Issue Binoculars or Telescopes that could do it.)😩😢
Title: Re: Sun and night.
Post by: Macarios on February 18, 2018, 02:33:27 AM
1.  Are you saying that at the altitude in which that picture was taken does not play a part in what can be seen?

2.  Well, then, you people should stop claiming that you can see X distance, then, right?

3.  How many dozen miles are those mountains away from the camera?

1. No, it is what YOU are trying to say RIGHT NOW. I'm saying that the picture was taken (the camera was) close to sea level.

2. Now you understand why occasional visibility of Toronto and Chicago during good mirage conditions proves nothing.
(Besides the fact it was occasional, which has own meaning.)

3. Slightly over eight dozen miles. Four times more than a couple.

---------------------------------------------

EDIT: Let's talk about your altitudes seen from Valparaiso while we are here.

Aconcagua, altitude 4.326 miles (9692 m), distance 99.4 miles (160 km).
Angular elevation ARCTAN(4.326 / 99.4) = 2.49 degrees.
Sun at sunrise, altitude 3000 miles, distance 6000 miles.
Angular elevation ARCTAN(3000 / 6000) = 26.56 degrees.
And yet, in real life at sunrise, we see them both at horizon (when cloudy we don't see either).

We know that atmosphere on average bends light slightly downwards.
To see Sun lower than it is the light should be bent strongly upwards.
Those last hundred(s) of miles in that case the sunlight would travel through high density of lower layers of the atmosphere.