The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: flatfred on February 12, 2018, 07:22:43 PM

Title: Explain the tides
Post by: flatfred on February 12, 2018, 07:22:43 PM
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on February 12, 2018, 11:10:02 PM
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
The plate wobbles twice a day and water sloshes around?
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: simba on February 13, 2018, 11:43:58 AM
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
The plate wobbles twice a day and water sloshes around?


mmmm yeah, then, why don't we feel this wibbling wobble on dry land?
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on February 13, 2018, 12:07:32 PM
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
The plate wobbles twice a day and water sloshes around?


mmmm yeah, then, why don't we feel this wibbling wobble on dry land?
How big do you think the wibbling wobble is?

Mmmm yeah, then, if you believe the tides are caused by gravitational attraction of the Moon and Sun, why don't you feel the pull from them?

[mikedrop]
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: simba on February 13, 2018, 12:39:06 PM
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
The plate wobbles twice a day and water sloshes around?


mmmm yeah, then, why don't we feel this wibbling wobble on dry land?
How big do you think the wibbling wobble is?

Mmmm yeah, then, if you believe the tides are caused by gravitational attraction of the Moon and Sun, why don't you feel the pull from them?

[mikedrop]

Answer my question so i can answer yours
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: flatfred on February 13, 2018, 01:55:05 PM
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
The plate wobbles twice a day and water sloshes around?



mmmm yeah, then, why don't we feel this wibbling wobble on dry land?
How big do you think the wibbling wobble is?

Mmmm yeah, then, if you believe the tides are caused by gravitational attraction of the Moon and Sun, why don't you feel the pull from them?

[mikedrop]

So we dismiss gravity(moon) now? Why do parts of Earth experience high tide and parts experience low tide at the same time?
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Curiouser and Curiouser on February 13, 2018, 03:38:15 PM

So we dismiss gravity(moon) now?


You must be new. Take a gander through the fora for a while and then come back and ask that question.


Why do parts of Earth experience high tide and parts experience low tide at the same time?


When you slosh water around in a bowl, aren't parts of it high and parts of it low at the same time?
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: MicroBeta on February 13, 2018, 04:02:21 PM

So we dismiss gravity(moon) now?


You must be new. Take a gander through the fora for a while and then come back and ask that question.


Why do parts of Earth experience high tide and parts experience low tide at the same time?


When you slosh water around in a bowl, aren't parts of it high and parts of it low at the same time?
Wouldn't that require that wobble to have a rotational component?  Similar to gyroscopic procession without the spinning disc?

We know the frequency of the tides and can estimate the mass of the water.  Sounds like a theory in the making.  An interesting one too.

Mike
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: EvolvedMantisShrimp on February 13, 2018, 07:18:56 PM

So we dismiss gravity(moon) now?


You must be new. Take a gander through the fora for a while and then come back and ask that question.


Why do parts of Earth experience high tide and parts experience low tide at the same time?


When you slosh water around in a bowl, aren't parts of it high and parts of it low at the same time?
Wouldn't that require that wobble to have a rotational component?  Similar to gyroscopic procession without the spinning disc?

We know the frequency of the tides and can estimate the mass of the water.  Sounds like a theory in the making.  An interesting one too.

Mike

Hypotheses have to be thoroughly tested to become theories. Some issues to consider: to keep the water in motion in that fashion, a force needs to be applied. What is that force? Next, why does that force follow the cycles of the moon? If the connection between the moon and the tides is not causative, then is it correlative?
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Danang on February 13, 2018, 09:04:24 PM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.

It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: rabinoz on February 14, 2018, 02:11:57 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.
Easily debunked by realising that most places have two high tides and two low tides each day.
This happens even at the time of a new moon, when the sun and  moon are over the same part of earth.

Quote from: Danang
It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~
I'm afraid your cup of coffee debunks nothing, so you might as well drink it.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: MicroBeta on February 14, 2018, 02:47:58 AM

So we dismiss gravity(moon) now?


You must be new. Take a gander through the fora for a while and then come back and ask that question.


Why do parts of Earth experience high tide and parts experience low tide at the same time?


When you slosh water around in a bowl, aren't parts of it high and parts of it low at the same time?
Wouldn't that require that wobble to have a rotational component?  Similar to gyroscopic procession without the spinning disc?

We know the frequency of the tides and can estimate the mass of the water.  Sounds like a theory in the making.  An interesting one too.

Mike

Hypotheses have to be thoroughly tested to become theories. Some issues to consider: to keep the water in motion in that fashion, a force needs to be applied. What is that force? Next, why does that force follow the cycles of the moon? If the connection between the moon and the tides is not causative, then is it correlative?
Thatís just the beginning.  It would have to describe the tides themselves...king tide and neap tide for instance.

Would the disk need to move or does it just flex to mimic some sort of procession?

What observable phenomenon would be evidence for such a hypothesis?

What are the consequences of such a motion of the disk?  Earth quakes, volcanos? 

Why donít we feel it?

The big one that youíve already pointed out, why does it follow the moon?

Many questions. ;)

Mike
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Here to laugh at you on February 14, 2018, 03:39:19 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.

It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~

Preposterous!

Every structure on the planet would be destroyed by this movement.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Danang on February 14, 2018, 08:19:59 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.

It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~

Preposterous!

Every structure on the planet would be destroyed by this movement.

Very slow changes of land's altitude is even not called "earthquake" at all. And most people didn't realize this altitude changes. Yes.. most people... that are victims of education system. Oops! :D
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Danang on February 14, 2018, 08:26:56 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.
Easily debunked by realising that most places have two high tides and two low tides each day.
This happens even at the time of a new moon, when the sun and  moon are over the same part of earth.

Quote from: Danang
It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~
I'm afraid your cup of coffee debunks nothing, so you might as well drink it.

No problem, on new moon, the tides is at lowest rate.

Okay, have a nice coffee drink and midnight clouds ~
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: MicroBeta on February 14, 2018, 08:29:52 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.

It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~

Preposterous!

Every structure on the planet would be destroyed by this movement.

Very slow changes of land's altitude is even not called "earthquake" at all. And most people didn't realize this altitude changes. Yes.. most people... that are victims of education system. Oops! :D
Since you seem to "realize this altitude changes" please, quantify it for us.

Mike
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Danang on February 14, 2018, 08:43:00 AM
To detect 'tiny earth quake' AKA 'Land Tides' is easy and fun.

Tie an object with a thread, hang it.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: MicroBeta on February 14, 2018, 09:46:01 AM
To detect 'tiny earth quake' AKA 'Land Tides' is easy and fun.

Tie an object with a thread, hang it.
I asked you to quantify the movement that you claim causes the tides.  A cheesy homemade seismometer ain't it.  Not to mention that a weight on a string will only give you lateral movement not vertical.

Mike
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: frenat on February 14, 2018, 12:26:58 PM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.
Easily debunked by realising that most places have two high tides and two low tides each day.
This happens even at the time of a new moon, when the sun and  moon are over the same part of earth.

Quote from: Danang
It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~
I'm afraid your cup of coffee debunks nothing, so you might as well drink it.

No problem, on new moon, the tides is at lowest rate.

Okay, have a nice coffee drink and midnight clouds ~
Wrong.  Tides are bigger during the new Moon as the Moon and Sun are combined.  Known as a spring tide.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Here to laugh at you on February 15, 2018, 03:50:19 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.

It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~

Preposterous!

Every structure on the planet would be destroyed by this movement.

Very slow changes of land's altitude is even not called "earthquake" at all. And most people didn't realize this altitude changes. Yes.. most people... that are victims of education system. Oops! :D

Horse shit!

The tides in my region swing by an average of 8' every 6 hours or so.

you are stupid!
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 15, 2018, 09:56:12 AM
The force you call gravity is not constant. That's all there is to it. The cause varies slightly.

Imagine rotating circles, layered on top of the Earth. Then draw a line on each; this is a 'focus' if you will, where the downwards force from that circle is more intense. All the circles rotate at different rates. Sometimes the focuses are spread out, sometimes they're all in one area; the latter would cause a much lower tide, and in turn higher tides elsewhere.

This isn't expected to convince me, I am not going to explain the different mechanism in detail. if you're interested my model is linked in my sig, but the gist of what happens is above. Why it happens would take much longer to go through.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: rabinoz on February 15, 2018, 02:04:31 PM
The force you call gravity is not constant. That's all there is to it.

Agreed, see:
Quote from: ResearchGate
Continuous gravity measurements from 27 May to 2 June 2009. The data are averaged over 15 min (3600 atom drops).
Top: gravity measurements uncorrected from tides with the tide model in red solid line. Bottom: residual between the gravity measurements and the tide model.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/y517gp1iy9gi545/Continuous-gravity-measurements-from-27-May-to-2-June-2009-The-data-are-averaged-over.png?dl=1)

From: Compact cold atom gravimeter for field applications (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235360402_Compact_cold_atom_gravimeter_for_field_applications)
The tide model referred to is the variations in g predicted from the gravitational effects of the moon and sun.
And there is plenty of similar data from

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic
The cause varies slightly.
What do you mean by,
"The cause varies slightly"? The cause is very well known and the measured values fit very well with those calculated - and that is a good test of the validity of a hypothesis.

And even 1500 years ago that cause was known:
Quote from: Jonathan Sarfati
One of the best-known proponents of a globe-shaped earth was the early English monk, theologian and historian, the Venerable Bede (673Ė735), who popularized the common BC/AD dating system. Less well known was that he was also a leading astronomer of his day.

In his book On the Reckoning of Time (De temporum ratione) . . . . . . . , explicitly taught that the earth was round. From this, he showed why the length of days and nights changed with the seasons, and how tides were dragged by the moon. Bede was the first with this insight, while Galileo explained the tides wrongly centuries later.

From Creation.com, The flat earth myth (http://creation.com/flat-earth-myth)

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic
Imagine rotating circles, layered on top of the Earth. Then draw a line on each; this is a 'focus' if you will, where the downwards force from that circle is more intense. All the circles rotate at different rates. Sometimes the focuses are spread out, sometimes they're all in one area; the latter would cause a much lower tide, and in turn higher tides elsewhere.
So, Mr Rowe, you sit there guessing everything when in fact they were known for centuries.

Quote from: JRoweSkeptic
This isn't expected to convince me, I am not going to explain the different mechanism in detail. if you're interested my model is linked in my sig, but the gist of what happens is above. Why it happens would take much longer to go through.
No, Mr Rowe, I would not expect anything to convince you, but others just might be more open-minded.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 15, 2018, 02:21:47 PM
Quote
So, Mr Rowe, you sit there guessing everything when in fact they were known for centuries.
Not guessing. As I said, I am only giving the gist rather than going into detail on the force that governs the rotation of bodies such as the stars and, yes, the moon. It's a lot to unpack and all far too much for this thread. Instead of trying to distract, like you are, I gave a simple answer.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Lonegranger on February 15, 2018, 02:33:16 PM
Quote
So, Mr Rowe, you sit there guessing everything when in fact they were known for centuries.
Not guessing. As I said, I am only giving the gist rather than going into detail on the force that governs the rotation of bodies such as the stars and, yes, the moon. It's a lot to unpack and all far too much for this thread. Instead of trying to distract, like you are, I gave a simple answer.

You speak about the forces that cause stars to rotate, so please expand on that. Tell us what research and observations that led you to your conclusions. Im sure your claims must be valid and not just some made up nonsense, as only a fool would do that. You can start by explaining how you came to your claim the stars are made of stone and metal. I'm sure your answer will be very illuminating, possibly as bright as the stars themselves. I for one can't wait! Over to you JROWE the world awaits your word of wisdom.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 15, 2018, 02:35:38 PM
Quote
So, Mr Rowe, you sit there guessing everything when in fact they were known for centuries.
Not guessing. As I said, I am only giving the gist rather than going into detail on the force that governs the rotation of bodies such as the stars and, yes, the moon. It's a lot to unpack and all far too much for this thread. Instead of trying to distract, like you are, I gave a simple answer.

You speak about the forces that cause stars to rotate, so please expand on that. Tell us what research and observations that led you to your conclusions. Im sure your claims must be valid and not just some made up nonsense, as only a fool would do that. You can start by explaining how you came to your claim the stars are made of stone and metal. I'm sure your answer will be very illuminating, possibly as bright as the stars themselves. I for one can't wait! Over to you JROWE the world awaits your word of wisdom.

And as you know full well I have an entire section devoted to the evidence in the link in my sig.
No matter how many times you spam that, no matter how many times you try to change the topic, no matter how many times you outright lie, that is not going to change.
I wonder why it is you're now desperately trying to distract from the subject of tides.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Lonegranger on February 15, 2018, 03:01:28 PM
Quote
So, Mr Rowe, you sit there guessing everything when in fact they were known for centuries.
Not guessing. As I said, I am only giving the gist rather than going into detail on the force that governs the rotation of bodies such as the stars and, yes, the moon. It's a lot to unpack and all far too much for this thread. Instead of trying to distract, like you are, I gave a simple answer.

You speak about the forces that cause stars to rotate, so please expand on that. Tell us what research and observations that led you to your conclusions. Im sure your claims must be valid and not just some made up nonsense, as only a fool would do that. You can start by explaining how you came to your claim the stars are made of stone and metal. I'm sure your answer will be very illuminating, possibly as bright as the stars themselves. I for one can't wait! Over to you JROWE the world awaits your word of wisdom.

And as you know full well I have an entire section devoted to the evidence in the link in my sig.
No matter how many times you spam that, no matter how many times you try to change the topic, no matter how many times you outright lie, that is not going to change.
I wonder why it is you're now desperately trying to distract from the subject of tides.

OH, no you've not...(said in a pantomime voice)
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: Danang on February 15, 2018, 05:36:18 PM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.
Easily debunked by realising that most places have two high tides and two low tides each day.
This happens even at the time of a new moon, when the sun and  moon are over the same part of earth.

Quote from: Danang
It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~
I'm afraid your cup of coffee debunks nothing, so you might as well drink it.

No problem, on new moon, the tides is at lowest rate.

Okay, have a nice coffee drink and midnight clouds ~
Wrong.  Tides are bigger during the new Moon as the Moon and Sun are combined.  Known as a spring tide.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/

Okay. So far I've read about tides partially OR mis-interpreted what I read.

BUT the idea about 'something mechanic under the land' is quite logical and it's hard to find other logical explanations. Anybody having complete data about tides in every part of the earth can easily predict the position of the 'machine' that cause the earth's land getting moved down and up etc.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: rabinoz on February 15, 2018, 06:03:27 PM
Quote
So, Mr Rowe, you sit there guessing everything when in fact they were known for centuries.
Not guessing. As I said, I am only giving the gist rather than going into detail on the force that governs the rotation of bodies such as the stars and, yes, the moon. It's a lot to unpack and all far too much for this thread. Instead of trying to distract, like you are, I gave a simple answer.
You gave an answer, which not incorrect, explained nothing.

The OP was
Explain tidal action variance across the Flat Earth.
and there is no way that I can answer that.
I could present some of the many FE explanations, but none explain the tidal patterns that we observe, with most places having semi-diurnal tides as in:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7f8v6rq8plra6s0/Semidiurnal%20Tides.png?dl=1)
And the highest high and lowest low tides occur at the times of both the new moon and the full moon - spring tides.

To me, these observations seem quite inexplicable on any flat earth model I have seen, but fit the Globe explanation of tides perfectly.

I have refrained from diving in and presenting a simple explanation for tides on the Globe for two reasons:But all that's for another day.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: JRoweSkeptic on February 16, 2018, 04:58:10 AM
And the highest high and lowest low tides occur at the times of both the new moon and the full moon - spring tides.

To me, these observations seem quite inexplicable on any flat earth model I have seen, but fit the Globe explanation of tides perfectly.
Correlation does not imply causation, I've already explained both the causes of tides and why they're correlated to the Sun and moon; the same force that governs their rotation governs the tides.
It's not inexplicable, you're just wilfully ignorant. You keep repeating the same old bs no matter how many times you see an answer.
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: MicroBeta on February 16, 2018, 08:52:28 AM
The ground under the sun and moon path get up and down in various rates according time.
Easily debunked by realising that most places have two high tides and two low tides each day.
This happens even at the time of a new moon, when the sun and  moon are over the same part of earth.

Quote from: Danang
It's like... There is a wandering 'ball' under the ground at both celestial bodies' projections on earth.

If you tie an object with a thread and hang it, the object sometimes a bit moves around.
This is caused by the up and down condition of the ground, not caused by the wind.

"The cause of tides" >> "gravity" as said by astrophysicists got debunked by just *a cup of coffee* ~
I'm afraid your cup of coffee debunks nothing, so you might as well drink it.

No problem, on new moon, the tides is at lowest rate.

Okay, have a nice coffee drink and midnight clouds ~
Wrong.  Tides are bigger during the new Moon as the Moon and Sun are combined.  Known as a spring tide.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moontides/

Okay. So far I've read about tides partially OR mis-interpreted what I read.

BUT the idea about 'something mechanic under the land' is quite logical and it's hard to find other logical explanations. Anybody having complete data about tides in every part of the earth can easily predict the position of the 'machine' that cause the earth's land getting moved down and up etc.
By that logic you should be able to use the tide tables to predict where in the world will move up and down, when it will happen, and by how much.  If you're right then the results will be testable.  Let us know when you're done.

Mike
Title: Re: Explain the tides
Post by: rabinoz on February 16, 2018, 10:25:52 PM
And the highest high and lowest low tides occur at the times of both the new moon and the full moon - spring tides.

To me, these observations seem quite inexplicable on any flat earth model I have seen, but fit the Globe explanation of tides perfectly.
Correlation does not imply causation, I've already explained both the causes of tides and why they're correlated to the Sun and moon; the same force that governs their rotation governs the tides.
It's not inexplicable, you're just wilfully ignorant. You keep repeating the same old bs no matter how many times you see an answer.
The flat earth explanation that I have been given and have read has been that tides are caused by "celestial gravitation", not to be confused but "gravity".
The tides, by all modern accounts,  seem to be the product of celestial gravitation.

Dr. Rowbotham thought it was merely the earth bobbing on the great deep, though he did not rule out a connection to the moon via some as yet recognized mechanism.

No-one that I have seen has yet explained that there is any "force that governs their rotation", let alone what its properties might be.

So, no Mr JRoweSkeptic, just watch your often repeated accusation of being, "just wilfully ignorant".
Besides, I thought that on your DET there were no sun or moon as physical objects.

Now maybe you would like to explain how that causes the two tides a day that most places observe.

But, I'm afraid that I simply cannot keep up with all the flat earth, each produced by the "smartest person of earth", from you, Sandokhan, sceptimatic, John Davis and brotherhood of the dome - all quite different and none the same are the "accepted model".