# The Flat Earth Society

## Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: wise on December 12, 2017, 02:43:54 AM

Title: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 02:43:54 AM
Although I warned both the moderators and the members together, my warning doesn't get considered. So that this topic no more will continue in this section.

This working will be continued in the section of:

Flat Earth Believers (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?board=8.0)

Topic: Flat Map Working: The world's most reliable map (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.0)

Hi guys. In this topic, we'll make a map all together.

A lot of unhealthy rounders object to a possibility of flat map can be done by the way using flying times. We'll prove the opposite is true.

This map will be a proof of a flat map can be done by online. Yes, we'll do it by online. This working will be open to the public. So no one in the future will be able to claim copyright in this map. On the other hand, "the flat earth society" or me has a right to get  copyright in the future.

Ok, lets do it.

Method:

STAGE 1

1- flight times will be taken into account.
2- different speeds will be considered for different aircraft types. for this purpose we'll take an average flying speed for all types of aircrafts and make it a chart.
3- the average speed of the aircrafts will be taken from this chart. This chart will be in this post soon. averaging more than 100 flights per aircraft type will be taken for this purpose. (You may start to part of this project)
4- The distance between cities will be calculated by average flying times between those cities with product to average flying speed of the aircraft. (the speed of that plane will be ignored.)
5-  We'll work airport names instead of city names.

PS:
1- While calculating a spped for an airplane, consider the opposite route together. Take consider all the speeds including opposite direction. They may be about 10-20. Then start another aircraft. When all data arrived to 100, get the average speed for that airplane type and give the number to me.
2- Filed speeds on the page is not correct but estimate. For a better estimation use "flight distance/flying time" instead of filed speed.
3- Don't consider the distances less than 500kms.
4- Convert your images to format of 800x... The bigger images seems ugly in many browsers.
5- Inside China, inside Russia and inside Indonesia flights will not get considered. If source and destination is both in China or both in Russia, or both in Indonesia don't get it considered.
6- speeds that can not be calculated because reliable flights can not be found, will be found by comparison with other aircrafts in terms of flight times between the same airports. meanwhile this method will be used for control of calculated aircraft speeds.

Now.

CHART FOR AVERAGE FLIGHT TIMES FOR DIFFERENT TYPE OF AIRPLANES

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6YG5r.png)

STAGE 1 IS COMPLETED
...

Calculations of stage 2 in here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73696

FINAL MAP (Map will be created by finding the center of intersections)

Our map will be here as follow:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lO0AqB.png)

Upgrade 15.01.2018. Selected center cities are organized.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Plpoj9.png)

Upgrade 16.01.2018 LA and NY moved to the center 500kms as a pre-acceptance of first 5 latitudes are absent and aircrafts really draw a circle while they near to center. (magnetic problems)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oO2WZR.png)

Added Istanbul and New Delhi. Corrected Tokyo, Beijing and New Delhi turned a bit around center of the map (for minimum changing) and Anchorage with Hong Kong perfectly placed. Denver added and perfectly overlapped.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Md6WL1.png)

Added Helsinki, Dallas, Santiago, El Paso, Monterrey, Mexico City and Puerto Vallarta.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J2dNA.png)

Added Panama, Bogota, Sao Paolo and Santiago.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOVYDV.png)

Map 3,5% shrinked (for correctance of flight times). Corrected places of some cities and Added Honolulu and Vancouer.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBY8WG.png)

Upgrade 24.01.2018 Singapore, Jakarta, Manila and Port Moresby is added. Magnetic center and hot line are added.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/kOJ9Gm.png)
Version 25.01.2018. Auckland, Perth, Cairns and Denpasar (Indonedia) are added. Buenos Aires and Bahia Thetis (End of the America) is added as estimation. Islands Gran Canaria and Ponta Delgada are deleted in the aim of simplify the map. (For better understanding the shape)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/0ELPj9.png)

Toronto is added as a prove the whole our workings. It is overlapped with whole cities in the world. So it is colored as green to show its reliablity. Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Halifax are added. Yellowknife is added with ball distances. So it is colored magentha to show it is not a reliable point.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2cie2jd.png)

Harbin, Astana, Novosibirsk, Yekaterinburg, Udachny and the roof of the world "Yakutsk" is added with a perfect estimation. Proved the Yakutsk is the nearest state to the center.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lOvZlk.png)

Upgrade 30.01.2018. Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, Magadan, and Anadyr are added as the far Asian side. Barcelona, Tromso, Oslo, Amsterdam and Bergen are added as the European side. Amsterdam as a reliable point and Anadyr as the end of the Asia colored green.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/0EnBqD.png)

Added Casablanca, Dakar and Abidjan as west of the African cities; and Antarctic circle is added by a favorable estimation with 14.000kms radius.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOMn93.png)

Upgrade 02.02.2018 Added African cities Luanda, Nairobi, Muscat and Dar Essalaam. The "cold line" is added as an Antarctic circle. The geographic and magnetic norths are overlapped by moving the center through Yakutsk. Whole distances to the Antarctica is controlled and proven.

When you want to, you may join this working. It is an open source working.

We'll need to the masters of photoshop and cgi  soon.

So it is a good idea someone's develop themselves in this matter.

During we continue the working, someones may create earlier versions of map and we may publish it as an estimation.

For example:

It is show up that compared to the all other maps including round and flat ones, China size should x2 bigger than old one. Russian size should be %50 less than old. Indonesia is about %30-50 longer, Australia about 1500 kms to the east, related with China's and Indonesia's growing. Europe is about same size. We have not enough data for America, but perhaps the size about same but shape may be a bit different.

an earler map can be made taking them into account.

PS: I'm weak on that last stage of this working and need a help.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on December 12, 2017, 05:04:51 AM
Different airplanes travel at slightly diferent speeds, and have more or less time needed to take off and land.

Can we use something more reliable (for areas between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn), like ground speed of subsolar point?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 10:37:11 AM
Different airplanes travel at slightly diferent speeds, and have more or less time needed to take off and land.

Can we use something more reliable (for areas between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn), like ground speed of subsolar point?

I understand your point, it is meaningfull but not practical. it is very difficult to separate them while shown in flying table. for example, click one:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A333

How can we determine which of these flights between selected capricorns? it will take some time now to determine the speeds of the planes. and adding a new criterion will increase the time.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on December 12, 2017, 10:48:15 AM
Different airplanes travel at slightly diferent speeds, and have more or less time needed to take off and land.

Can we use something more reliable (for areas between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn), like ground speed of subsolar point?

I understand your point, it is meaningfull but not practical. it is very difficult to separate them while shown in flying table. for example, click one:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A333

How can we determine which of these flights between selected capricorns? it will take some time now to determine the speeds of the planes. and adding a new criterion will increase the time.

I was talking of REPLACING data from flights with data from ground speed of subsolar point where applicable.
Subsolar point can more accurately map the whole band between 23.5 degrees north and 23.5 degrees south.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: John Davis on December 12, 2017, 10:50:42 AM
If you get me the data in a format I can parse, I'd be happy to help with coding up a solution that puts them all on a flat plane that fits together in the most reasonable way.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
Different airplanes travel at slightly diferent speeds, and have more or less time needed to take off and land.

Can we use something more reliable (for areas between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn), like ground speed of subsolar point?

I understand your point, it is meaningfull but not practical. it is very difficult to separate them while shown in flying table. for example, click one:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A333

How can we determine which of these flights between selected capricorns? it will take some time now to determine the speeds of the planes. and adding a new criterion will increase the time.

I was talking of REPLACING data from flights with data from ground speed of subsolar point where applicable.
Subsolar point can more accurately map the whole band between 23.5 degrees north and 23.5 degrees south.

In the mentality of flat map, capricorns south or north don't make a sence. Everywhere is same.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 11:12:10 AM
If you get me the data in a format I can parse, I'd be happy to help with coding up a solution that puts them all on a flat plane that fits together in the most reasonable way.

what we need at this stage is the average speed of the planes.

For this purpose we click the links stay on the names of aircraft types and examine them.

For example, this is the first airplane type:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A306

Now there is a lot of A306 airplanes. Now we'll click about 10 of them one by one.

This is the first one:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS9873/history/20171212/1815Z/KRFD/KSDF

We are looking to the data of speed, stays here:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1GRqVA.png)

But the activity log is a bit complex.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/OyjmLD.png)

So we'll pass this airplane. UPS types are not useful. I'll use this one:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX3011/history/20171212/1845Z/KLAX/KATL

Now we need same type of airplane on opposite route. Click to "All flights between Klax and catl" and find another A306. This one:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX3010/history/20171212/1214Z/KATL/KLAX

There is 6+6=12 total flights. So we have got 12 flights and 12 speeds.

Then we need another aircrafts for compare this one. this is not an easy task. you can do this for any plane you want. There is no ready data, these may be research.

I made this explanation for who want to help me for this project. friends who want to contribute to this topic can help by paying attention to these points.

Everyone who want to help may say me by giving me a type of airplane, like this: "I'm getting the calculations of A343". Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 01:17:34 PM
B735

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B735

(https://i.hizliresim.com/QpjrOj.png)

1 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/TBZ5635-1512887146-airline-0360
2 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/CES252-1512939600-schedule-0002%3a0
3 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/UTA247-1512887151-airline-0275%3a0
4 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/VSV850-1512887145-airline-0250
5 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/CES2058-1512934800-schedule-0000%3a0
6 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/UTA508-1512887151-airline-0320%3a0
7 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/UTA351-1512887151-airline-0364%3a0
8 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/ANT512-1512887141-airline-0380%3a0

1 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/TBZ5635-1512887146-airline-0360
Flight distance: 335 mi.
Average flight time: 40m.
Average speed: 503 m/h

Opposite direction
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TBZ5719/history/20171201/1200Z/OIAW/OIII
503 m/h

2 https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/id/CES252-1512939600-schedule-0002%3a0

converted to: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CES252/history/20171212/2100Z/VTSG/ZGGG
474 mph

Opposite direction:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CES251/history/20171212/1545Z/ZGGG/VTSG
364 mph

The "estimated speeds" on the pages are generally true but not so so true. So it seems a better idea use "direct distance" / average flying time as an average flying speed, instead of getting the speed value on the page. I'm trying to solve this problem. Not yet, tomorrow.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: smokified on December 12, 2017, 01:23:13 PM
Hi guys. In this topic, we'll make a map all together.

A lot of unhealthy rounders object to a possibility of flat map can be done by the way using flying times. We'll prove the opposite is true.

This map will be a proof of a flat map can be done by online. Yes, we'll do it by online. This working will be open to the public. So no one in the future will be able to claim copyright in this map. On the other hand, "the flat earth society" or me has a right to get  copyright in the future.

Ok, lets do it.

Method:

STAGE 1

1- flight times will be taken into account.
2- different speeds will be considered for different aircraft types. for this purpose we'll take an average flying speed for all types of aircrafts and make it a chart.
3- the average speed of the aircrafts will be taken from this chart. This chart will be in this post soon. averaging more than 100 flights per aircraft type will be taken for this purpose. (You may start to part of this project)
4- The distance between cities will be calculated by average flying times between those cities with product to average flying speed of the aircraft. (the speed of that plane will be ignored.)
5-  We'll work airport names instead of city names.

We'll start to make fix the out corners firstly. SCEL, YSSY and FAOR is the first purpose.

After the corners fixed, we'll fix the biggest and has most flights to whole world cities as follow: Madrid, New York, Beijing, Moscow, London, Paris, Berlin, Doha, New Delhi, Tokyo, Jakarta,...etc.

After the second stage, we'll start to find other cities and map will be done.

Your offers should be in the format of: "links of all the data", at least an image show the route, and your calculations.

Now.

CHART FOR AVERAGE FLIGHT TIMES FOR DIFFERENT TYPE OF AIRPLANES (Only Airbus or Boing if possible)

You may help me by clicking links on the names of airplane types and calculate the average speed for it.

ALL TYPES:

Code   Aircraft Type / Average speed (km/h)
A306   Airbus A300F4-600 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A306) (Your offer will be here)
A318   Airbus A318 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A318) (Your offer will be here)
A319   Airbus A319 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A319) (Your offer will be here)
A320   Airbus A320 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A320)
A321   Airbus A321 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A321)
A330   Airbus A330 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A330)
A332   Airbus A330-200 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A332)
A333   Airbus A330-300 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A333)
A343   Airbus A340-300 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A343)
A346   Airbus A340-600 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A346)
A359   Airbus A350-900 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A359)
A388   Airbus A380-800 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A388)

B38M Boeing 737 MAX 8 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B38M)

B712   Boeing 717-200 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B712)
B732   Boeing 737-200 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B732)
B733   Boeing 737-300 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B733)
B734   Boeing 737-400 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B734)
B735   Boeing 737-500 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B735)
B736   Boeing 737-600 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B736)
B737   Boeing 737-700 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B737)
737 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/737)
B738   Boeing 737-800 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B738)
B739   Boeing 737-900 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B739)
B748   Boeing 747-8 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B748)
B752   Boeing 757-200 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B752)
B762   Boeing 767-200 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B762)
B763   Boeing 767-300 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B763)
B764   Boeing 767-400 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B764)
767 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/767)
B772   Boeing 777-200 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B772)
B773   Boeing 777-300 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B773)
B77L   Boeing 777-200LR/F (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B77L)
B77W   Boeing 777-300ER (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B77W)
777   Boeing 777 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/777)
B788   Boeing 787-8 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B788)
B789   Boeing 787-9 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B789)

Remind me if you see a broken link.

You can find the link of airplanes by click to this link:

....
...
...

PS: While calculating a spped for an airplane, consider the opposite route together. Take consider all the speeds including opposite direction. They may be about 10-20. Then start another aircraft. When all data arrived to 100, get the average speed for that airplane type and give the number to me.

FINAL MAP (Map will be created by finding the center of intersections)

Our map will be here as follow:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nJ4DDR.png)

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 12, 2017, 01:44:52 PM
Heads up - I have agreed to keep this thread free of spam and other insulting types of comments. If you wish to participate in helping to make this map then you are more than welcome to do so.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rabinoz on December 12, 2017, 02:15:40 PM
The "estimated speeds" on the pages are generally true but not so so true. So it seems a better idea use "direct distance" / average flying time as an average flying speed, instead of getting the speed value on the page. I'm trying to solve this problem. Not yet, tomorrow.
Make certain that these flights get included:
QANTAS QFA27 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA27/history/20171212/0229Z/YSSY/SCEL) Speed Filed: 567 mph, Altitude Filed: 9,450 m Distance Actual: 7,243 mi (Planned: 3,448 mi/Direct: 7,054 mi)
QANTAS QFA28 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA28/history/20171210/1635Z/SCEL/YSSY) Speed Filed: 577 mph, Altitude Filed: 9,450 m Distance Actual: 7,271 mi (Planned: 7,054 mi/Direct: 7,054 mi)

QANTAS QFA63 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA63/history/20171212/0055Z/YSSY/FAOR) Speed Filed: 570 mph, Altitude Filed: 9,150 m Distance Actual: 6,992 mi (Planned: 6,857 mi/Direct: 6,857 mi)
QANTAS QFA64 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA64/history/20171211/1650Z/FAOR/YSSY) Speed Filed: 575 mph, Altitude Filed: 9,450 m Distance Actual: 6,927 mi (Planned: 6,857 mi/Direct: 6,857 mi)

South African Airays SAA222 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA222/history/20171211/0910Z/FAOR/SBGR) Speed Filed: 488 mph, Actual: 4,688 mi (Direct: 4,627 mi)
South African Airays SAA223 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA223/history/20171211/2030Z/SBGR/FAOR) Speed Filed: 545 mph, Altitude Filed: Actual: 4,684 mi (Direct: 4,627 mi)

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 10:04:07 PM

We are not google earth society.

We are "THE FLAT EARTH SOCIETY". I hope it means something for you.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 12, 2017, 11:12:30 PM
B735

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B735

(https://i.hizliresim.com/EyjG78.png)

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BMS153/history/20171213/0530Z/LROP/EKCH

Direct: 1554 kms
Flying times:
2:43
2:23
Average flying time: 2:33

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BMS154/history/20171213/0900Z/EKCH/LROP

Flying time: 2:35

Average flying time: 2:34

Average speed: 1554 kms/ 2:34 hours = 605 km/h

Considered number of flights: 3

Direct: 1435 kms.

Flying times:

2:24
2:29
2:25
2:24
2:20
2:10
2:10
2:15
2:31
2:12

Average flying time: 2:20

Opposite route: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI602/history/20171213/0840Z/EBBR/EVRA
Flying times:
2:08
2:18
2:16
2:19
2:33
2:29
2:25
2:38

Average flying time:02:23

Average of flying times: 02:22

Average speed: 1435 kms/ 02:22 = 606 km/h
Considered number of flights: 18

Total considered number of flights:
Average speed = (??? + 605x3 + ??? + ??? + 606x18 + ??? + ???) / ??? = 533 ???  kmh

Average speed of the B735 types aircrafts is ??? kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on December 13, 2017, 11:41:58 AM
You will also need to factor in routing considerations such as no fly zones and the minimisation of time over sea, along with prevalent wind conditions at the various altitudes.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Danang on December 13, 2017, 12:07:03 PM
Facts on flights as well as the sun's path/projection on earth will lead to RFE map model >> Huge distances, long durations, ticket prices for flights between Europe countries and North America, even just Greenland. Not to mention disproportional of globe map lands etc.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: ER22 on December 13, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Kudos to any FE people who participate and attempt to create a map for their belief.
I for one am interested in seeing the results.

It is a daunting task to do it this way.
But good luck!

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on December 13, 2017, 04:27:42 PM
Kudos to any FE people who participate and attempt to create a map for their belief.
I for one am interested in seeing the results.

It is a daunting task to do it this way.
But good luck!

Ditto - I'm genuinely interested by this. Good luck all.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 13, 2017, 04:46:28 PM
Kudos to any FE people who participate and attempt to create a map for their belief.
I for one am interested in seeing the results.

It is a daunting task to do it this way.
But good luck!

Ditto - I'm genuinely interested by this. Good luck all.
I'm curious if he actually uses all the data including flight across the Southern Pacific and Indian oceans.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 13, 2017, 09:47:13 PM
Guys who want to see the result may help to calculations. One of them takes 1 hour. Why don't you take the responsibility of calculating one of them?

You will also need to factor in routing considerations such as no fly zones and the minimisation of time over sea, along with prevalent wind conditions at the various altitudes.

Old story. It is meaningfull only locally, when calculating an average speed for any type of aircraft. but this effect is limited if we take into account the general average.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 14, 2017, 12:26:02 AM
A333

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A333

(https://i.hizliresim.com/POgQWb.png)

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VKG1546/history/20171214/0655Z/ENGM/GCLP

Direct: 4110 kms.
Average flight time: 5:12

Opposite direction:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VKG1567/history/20171213/1345Z/GCLP/ENGM

5:25
5:25
Average flight time: 5:25

Average of flight times: 5:18
Average speed: 4110kms / 5:18 = 776 kmh
Considered number of flights= 3

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA747/history/20171214/0720Z/VOCI/OEJN

Direct: 4176 kms.
Flight times:
6:28
6:17
6:05
6:19
5:56
6:07
6:09

Average flight time: 06:11

Opposite direction:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA746/history/20171214/0010Z/OEJN/VOCI

Flight times:
5:31
5:25
5:38
5:35
6:05
5:51
5:58

Average flight time: 5:43

Average of flight times= 5:57
Average speed= 4176kms/ 5:57 = 702 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 14

Direct: 983 kms.

Times:

2:10
2:15
2:18
2:25
2:31
2:30
2:16
2:20
2:27
2:25
2:15
2:11

Average flight time: 2:20

Opposite direction:

Times:

1:48
1:56
1:51
2:06
1:54
2:00
1:55
1:59
2:10
2:01

Average flight time: 01:58

Average of flight times: 02:09
Average speed: 983 kms/ 02:09 = 457 kms.
Number of considered flighs: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/HDA437/history/20171214/0710Z/RCKH/VHHH

Direct: 663 kms.

1:55
1:39
1:36
1:36
1:31
1:57
1:38
1:38
1:41
1:46
1:54
1:34
1:37
1:26

Average flight time= 01:40

Opposite direction: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/HDA450/history/20171214/1315Z/VHHH/RCKH

1:40
1:28
1:33
1:33
1:22
1:34
1:32
1:32
1:25
1:40
1:27
1:30
1:33

Average flight time: 01:31

Average of flight times= 01:36

Average speed= 663kms/01:36 = 414 kmh.
Number of considered flights= 27

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR751/history/20171214/0720Z/RKSI/WSSS

Direct: 4632kms

Times:

6:26
6:40
6:53
6:50
6:43
6:56
6:24
6:33
6:20
6:26
6:34
6:47

Average flight time: 6:37

Opposite direction:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR752/history/20171214/1500Z/WSSS/RKSI

Times:

6:51
6:48
6:34
6:34
6:27
6:33
7:01
6:31
6:34
6:23
6:39
6:55

Average flight time: 06:39

Average of flight times= 06:38

Average flight speed= 4632 kms/ 6:38 = 698 kmh.
Number of considered flights=24

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS73/history/20171214/0650Z/VHHH/WMKK

Direct: 2547 kms

Times:

3:42
3:48
4:06
4:20
3:54
3:45
3:46
3:47
3:52
3:56
3:44

Average flight time= 3:52

Opposite direction: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/HDA734/history/20171214/0955Z/WMKK/VHHH

Times:

4:13
3:52
3:41
4:03
4:09
4:03
4:11
4:18
4:02
4:19
4:10
4:05
3:58

Average flight time: 04:04

Average of flight times: 03:58

Average flight time= 2547kms / 03:58 = 640 kmh.

Number of considered flights: 24

Total considered number of flights: (24+24+27+22+14+3=114>100)

Average flight speed of A333= (776x3 + 702x14 + 457x22 + 414x27 + 698x24 + 640x24) / 114 = 575 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 14, 2017, 12:42:11 AM
I know it is a hard work for those who have no experience in this type of working. But I need help to a fast finish. Of course, I can do it by myself but it takes really a long time. There is 36 types of aircrafts, it takes about 36 days for only myself. If only one of them you calculated makes the time  one day shorter.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on December 14, 2017, 11:56:35 AM
I know it is a hard work for those who have no experience in this type of working. But I need help to a fast finish. Of course, I can do it by myself but it takes really a long time. There is 36 types of aircrafts, it takes about 36 days for only myself. If only one of them you calculated makes the time  one day shorter.

How are getting on with this - anything to show us?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: ER22 on December 14, 2017, 04:14:37 PM
I wish I could help
But I will freely admit I don't have the computer skills.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: John Davis on December 14, 2017, 06:41:06 PM
If you put the data into a csv or excel file, xml or json I'll be happy to build the map. I cannot help with data gathering here. We need to have a discussion on how to make your data useful if you are to spend the time compiling it.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 14, 2017, 10:33:52 PM
I wish I could help
But I will freely admit I don't have the computer skills.

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 15, 2017, 04:26:37 AM
If you put the data into a csv or excel file, xml or json I'll be happy to build the map. I cannot help with data gathering here. We need to have a discussion on how to make your data useful if you are to spend the time compiling it.

If there is a steady data for flight times and speeds, we may use it. I'm open for this types of suggestions. Yet I did not find data such that type.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 15, 2017, 04:58:09 AM
B712

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1207/history/20171215/1100Z/KFAR/KMSP
Direct 359 kms.
less than 500kms. Eliminated.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VOE1632/history/20171215/1130Z/LIRN/LIMJ
Direct: 594 kms.

Times:
00:53
00:40
00:50
00:44
Average: 00:46

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VOE1633/history/20171216/0600Z/LIMJ/LIRN
Times:
00:56
00:56
01:02
00:56
Average time: 00:57

Average of times: 00:52
Average speed: 594kms/0:52 = 684 kmh
Number of considered flights: 8

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2674/history/20171215/1130Z/KBOS/KLGA
direct: 296 kms < 500 kms. Eliminated.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL652/history/20171215/1100Z/KBUF/KDTW
direct: 387 kms. <500kms. Eliminated.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1733/history/20171215/1100Z/KABE/KATL
Direct: 1115kms.
Times:
02:00
02:21
01:53
01:57
02:15
02:17
02:16
02:12
02:03

Average time: 02:08

Opposite direction:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL569/history/20171216/0233Z/KATL/KABE
Times:
01:49
01:56
02:10
01:42
02:03
01:44
01:42
01:40
01:57
01:56
Average flight time: 1:51
Average of flight times: 02:00
Average flight speed: 1115/02:00 = 557kmh.
Number of considered flights: 19

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2471/history/20171215/1100Z/KBOS/KJFK
Direct:300<500kms. Eliminated.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QJE1929/history/20171215/1144Z/YBRM/YPPH
Direct:1680 kms.
Times:
02:33
02:30
02:30
02:47
02:33
02:41
02:28
Average time: 02:34

Opposite direction:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QJE1930/history/20171215/0836Z/YPPH/YBRM
Times:
02:19
02:26
02:28
02:18
02:23
02:34
02:19
02:25
02:17
02:30
Average flight time: 02:23
Average of flight times: 02:29
Average speed= 1680/02:29 = 675 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 17

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1660/history/20171215/1105Z/KLGA/KCVG
Direct: 941kms.
Times:
01:56
02:12
01:54
02:10
02:14
02:15
02:24
01:58
Average flight time: 02:07

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1704/history/20171216/0130Z/KCVG/KLGA
Times:
01:56
01:55
02:01
01:49
01:50
02:05
01:40
01:45
01:57
01:43
Average time: 01:52
Average of flight times: 01:59
Average speed: 941 / 01:59 = 471 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 18

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2910/history/20171215/1112Z/KAVP/KATL
Direct: 1150kms.
Times:
02:22
02:24
01:58
02:21
02:36
02:16
02:14
Average flight time: 02:18

Opposite direction:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL828/history/20171216/0226Z/KATL/KAVP
times:
01:47
02:00
01:55
01:53
02:02
01:43
01:56
01:52
01:55
Average flight time: 01:53
Average of flight times: 02:06
Average speed: 1150kms/02:06 = 547 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 16

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL785/history/20171215/1100Z/KRDU/KMSP
Direct: 1578kms.
Times:
02:59
03:06
02:52
03:21
02:45
02:37
02:40
02:47
02:56
03:02
Average flight time: 02:54

Opposite direction:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL963/history/20171216/0215Z/KMSP/KRDU
Times:
02:16
02:18
02:11
02:13
02:09
02:57
02:15
02:57
02:13
02:31
Average flight time: 02:24
Average of flight times: 02:39
Average speed: 1578kms/02:39 = 595 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2276/history/20171215/1205Z/KMCO/KLGA
Direct: 1533 kms.
Times:
02:51
02:55
02:42
02:33
02:44
03:23
03:02
02:39
02:39
02:35
Average flight time: 02:48
Average of flight times: 02:38
Average speed: 1533kms/02:38 = 581 kmh.
Number of considered flights= 21

Total flights examined: (18+19+17+8+16+20+21)= 119

Average speed of B712 = (684x8 + 557x19+ 675x17+ 471x18+ 547x16+ 595x20+ 581x21)/119 = 579kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 15, 2017, 06:09:04 AM
B744

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B744

The airplane makes the path from Australia to other continents shorter. Lets examine it, is it really faster than others; I really surious?

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS59/history/20171215/1335Z/VHHH/PANC

(Considered path from HKG to ANC)

Direct: 8175
Times:
09:02
08:57
08:48
08:47
08:08
08:39
08:54
08:35
08:32

Average time: 08:42 (This is really fast)
Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAC947/history/20171216/0805Z/PANC/VHHH
Times:
10:34
10:37
10:17
11:48
10:20
11:18
10:05
11:25
Average: 10:48
Average of flight times: 09:45
Average speed: 8175 kms/ 09:45 = 838 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 17

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAY52/history/20171215/0230Z/VHHH/OMDB
(Considered Hong Kong to Dubai)
Direct: 5926 kms.
Times:
08:00
08:04
08:05
08:03
07:43
07:33
07:43
Average: 07:53

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAY51/history/20171215/1400Z/OMDB/VHHH
Times:
06:26
06:27
06:23
06:33
06:32
06:38
06:42
06:41
Average: 06:32
Average of flight times:07:12
Average speed: 5926kms/07:12=821 kmh. (This aircraft is really fast)
Considered number of flights: 15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR286/history/20171215/1335Z/KLAX/KSFO
Direct: 544kms.
Times:
00:49
00:51
00:50
Average: 00:50

Opposite: Absent.

eliminated.

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW107/history/20171215/1235Z/EGLL/OMDB
Direct: 5504 kms.
Times:
06:59
07:05
06:20
06:15
06:02
06:16
06:57
07:03
06:56
06:46
07:00
07:06
Average: 06:43

Opposite direction:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BAW106/history/20171214/2225Z/OMDB/EGLL
Times:
07:58
08:03
07:26
07:20
07:33
07:24
07:40
07:44
07:43
07:50
07:28
07:27
Average:07:38
Average of flight times: 07:10
Average speed: 766 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 24

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA26/history/20171215/1300Z/RJTT/YSSY
(Tokyo to Sydney)
Direct:7827 kms.
09:46
09:29
09:47
09:24
09:29
09:22
09:09
09:22
09:20
09:13
09:21
09:34
Average time: 09:26

Opposite direction:
10:06
09:23
09:21
09:14
09:23
09:29
09:35
09:06
09:08
09:53
09:26
09:19
Average:09:26
Average of flight times: 09:26
Average speed: 7827/09:26 = 829kmh.
Number of considered flights: 24

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR15/history/20171215/1300Z/EGKK/KMCO
Direct:6999
Times:
09:32
09:41
09:30
09:51
10:02
09:44
10:03
09:37
08:57
09:27
09:27

Average:09:37

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR16/history/20171216/0110Z/KMCO/EGKK
Times:
07:43
07:52
07:22
07:41
07:54
07:30
07:41
08:13
08:32
08:35
08:13
08:25
Average: 07:58
Average of flight times: 08:47
Average speed: 6999kms/08:47= 796 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 23

Total number of flights are examined: (17+15+24+24+23)=103

Average speed of B744 Quadro engine = (838x17+ 821x15+ 766x24+ 829x24+ 796x23)/103 = 807kmh.

This aircraft is really really more and more faster than others. This proves why we feel the distance of Australia to other continents as shorter. Because this airplane makes the flying time about %40 shorter. Unbelievable. They will no more resist to our evidences.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: smokified on December 15, 2017, 03:29:13 PM
lmfao....We "feel the distance to be shorter".

The measurement is still the same.  You travel at a certain speed over a certain time period and there is your distance.  This is not even remotely complicated...just look at one of the already existing maps that are already verified to be accurate...you can verify the distances yourself.

You are never actually going to create a map this way.  You can't delete reality the same as you can delete comments that destroy your theory.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 16, 2017, 04:55:29 AM
lmfao....We "feel the distance to be shorter".

The measurement is still the same.  You travel at a certain speed over a certain time period and there is your distance.  This is not even remotely complicated...just look at one of the already existing maps that are already verified to be accurate...you can verify the distances yourself.

You are never actually going to create a map this way.  You can't delete reality the same as you can delete comments that destroy your theory.

If you have a better idea, lets do it. I'm steady ready to listen it. If you haven't, shut up and sit down.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: ER22 on December 16, 2017, 01:38:48 PM
Again I commend you for your efforts to create a flat earth map.
But you are supposed to collect data and analyze it.

Nobody, myself included, is going to read each and every flight you present.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 16, 2017, 10:44:31 PM
Again I commend you for your efforts to create a flat earth map.
But you are supposed to collect data and analyze it.

Nobody, myself included, is going to read each and every flight you present.

Nobody is a pretentious word.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 17, 2017, 11:50:33 AM
This is not for you read all of them. This is the evidences of where the datas come from. It perhaps you will better understand the necessity of this in the future. especially when the objections begin.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: ER22 on December 17, 2017, 01:26:00 PM
Didn't mean to be pretentious.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 17, 2017, 01:26:15 PM
B772 (Boeing 777 -200)

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B772

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ52/history/20171217/2030Z/NZAA/NFFN
Direct: 2159 kms.
Times:
3:03
2:49
2:51
3:01
Average of times: 02:56

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ53/history/20171218/0055Z/NFFN/NZAA
Times:
03:09
03:00
02:59
03:05
Average time: 03:03

Average of times: 02:59
Average speed: 2159kms/02:59 = 721 kms.
Number of considered flights: 8

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL944/history/20171217/2025Z/KORD/EDDF
Direct: 6978 kms.
Times:
08:00
08:07
08:06
07:51
07:48
08:08
07:35
08:06
08:08
08:20
08:11
08:23
08:18
Average time: 08:04

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL906/history/20171218/1200Z/EDDF/KORD
times:
09:34
09:05
09:39
09:20
09:11
09:19
09:15
09:26
09:16
09:14
09:32
09:31
Average time: 09:21
Average of times: 08:43
Average speed: 6978kms/08::43 = 800kmh.
Number of considered flights: 25

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1611/history/20171217/2030Z/KORD/KEWR
Direct: 1156 kms.
Times:
01:48
02:31
02:05
02:54
02:33
02:08
02:17
02:04
02:00
02:03
02:19
Average: 2:14

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL977/history/20171217/1259Z/KEWR/KORD
Times:
02:38
02:34
02:30
02:09
02:30
02:05
02:35
02:21
02:29
02:21
02:22
02:22
Average: 2:24

Average of times: 02:19
Average speed: 1156kms/02:19 = 497 kms.
Number of considered flights: 23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL169/history/20171217/1930Z/KLAX/RJAA
Direct:8764 kms.
Times:
12:27
11:54
11:24
11:56
11:44
11:29
11:39
11:54
11:59
11:34
Average: 11:48

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL170/history/20171218/0945Z/RJAA/KLAX
Times:
08:55
10:14
09:42
10:22
09:49
10:05
09:43
10:24
10:07
10:08
09:48
Average time: 09:56

Average of times: 10:52
Average speed: 8764kms/10:52 = 806 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 21

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL895/history/20171217/1925Z/KORD/VHHH
Direct: 12536 kms.
Times:
16:03
15:58
15:48
15:46
16:06
15:03
15:32
15:45
15:29
15:45
15:27

Average: 15:42

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL896/history/20171218/0310Z/VHHH/KORD
14:02
13:58
14:03
14:32
13:49
14:11
14:09
13:27
13:50
14:26
14:17

Average: 14:04

Average of times: 14:53
Average speed: 12536kms / 14:53 = 842 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR8960/history/20171217/0740Z/OTHH/ZSPD
Direct: 6802kms.
Times:
08:10
08:21
08:13
08:15
08:36
08:12
07:57
Average: 08:54

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR8961/history/20171217/1810Z/ZSPD/OTHH
Times:
09:56
10:58
10:44
10:31
Average: 10:32

Average of times: 09:23
Average speed: 6802kms/09:23 = 724 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 11

Total number of considered flights: (8+25+23+21+22+11)=110

Average speed of B772: (721*8+800*25+497*23+806*21+842*22+724*11)/110= 733kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 17, 2017, 01:27:34 PM
Didn't mean to be pretentious.

This is a common project. Everyone can join who wants.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 17, 2017, 10:21:42 PM
This is a common project. Everyone can join who wants.
Does "everyone" include round earth proponents like me?  I have extracted data from FlightAware for thirty different cities, each with nonstop routes to at least seven of the other cities, amounting to literally thousands of data points.  I will share the spreadsheet once I have it in a format I'm happy with.

Here's a preview of the matrix, each "X" represents a nonstop flight between the cities.

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Hutton on December 17, 2017, 10:35:33 PM
Someone beat you to it, brotherhood.

They're hyper-accurate and in real time (http://www.arcgis.com/home/webscene/viewer.html?webscene=128ba9498cca447ab6ec356b84fee879).

(https://image.ibb.co/dAGUaR/itisactuallyimpossibletobesoretarded.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 17, 2017, 10:39:13 PM
This is a common project. Everyone can join who wants.
Does "everyone" include round earth proponents like me?  I have extracted data from FlightAware for thirty different cities, each with nonstop routes to at least seven of the other cities, amounting to literally thousands of data points.  I will share the spreadsheet once I have it in a format I'm happy with.

Here's a preview of the matrix, each "X" represents a nonstop flight between the cities.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/V3mdnj.png)

Thanks for your support. Surely it is not important you be rounder or flat earth believer. It was an important data.

I added your name to the bottom of the first post as one of the authors, if it not be a problem for you.

I'm waiting for your next supports.

As a suggest, Doha airport is important too. Can you add Doha Airport  (with code as OTHH) to the chart? Because, there is a flight almost everywhere from Doha. It is almost the center of the earth for aircrafts.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 18, 2017, 04:52:15 AM
B 748 (Boeing 747-8)

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B748

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL614/history/20171218/0725Z/VHHH/RKSI

Direct: 2072 kms.
Times:
03:41
03:25
03:51
03:44
03:26
03:24
03:45
03:41
Average: 3:37
Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL613/history/20171218/0200Z/RKSI/VHHH
times:
04:08
04:46
03:37
03:54
03:44
04:03
04:05
03:56
03:52
Average: 04:00
Average of times: 03:48

Average speed: 2072kms/03:48 = 543 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 17

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH490/history/20171218/0930Z/EDDF/KSEA
Direct: 8206kms
Times:
10:05
10:27
09:58
09:40
09:53
09:57
09:44
10:06
10:20
10:01
09:59
10:07

Average time:10:01

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH491/history/20171218/2205Z/KSEA/EDDF
Times:
09:43
09:27
09:31
09:41
09:38
09:50
09:40
09:34
09:30
09:37
09:51
09:59
09:34

Average time:09:39

Average of times: 09:50
Average speed: 8206kms/09:50= 834 kms.
Number of considered flights: 25

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH430/history/20171218/0940Z/EDDF/KORD
Direct: 6978 kms.
Times:
09:08
09:08
09:13
09:03
08:59
09:02
08:57
09:28
09:10
09:23
09:34
09:10
09:39

Average time:09:13

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH431/history/20171218/2220Z/KORD/EDDF
Times:
08:11
07:18
07:48
07:50
07:40
07:31
07:35
07:45
07:50
07:30
07:48
08:10
08:21
08:02

Average time:07:48
Average of times: 08:30
Average speed: 6978kms/08:30 = 819 kms.
Number of considered flights: 27

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH440/history/20171218/0850Z/EDDF/KIAH
Direct:8412 kms.
Times:
11:10
11:03
10:50

Average time: 11:01

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH441/history/20171218/2210Z/KIAH/EDDF
Times:
09:29
09:14
09:16

Average time: 09:19
Average of times: 10:10

Average speed: 8412kms/10:10= 827 kms.
Number of considered flights: 6

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL671/history/20171218/0750Z/RKSI/WMKK
Direct: 4619kms.
Times:
06:23
06:19
06:18
06:15
05:54
06:15
06:30
06:26
06:29
06:51
06:23

Average time:06:22

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL672/history/20171218/1559Z/WMKK/RKSI
Times:
06:25
06:34
06:28
06:23
06:11
06:28
06:11
06:12
06:11
06:29
06:36

Average time:06:22
Average of times: 06:22
Average speed: 4619kms/06:22 = 725 kms.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA985/history/20171218/0800Z/ZBAA/KSFO
Direct: 9504 kms.
Times:
10:11
10:58
10:50
11:10
11:15
12:34
11:36
11:21
11:14
12:08

Average time:11:19

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA986/history/20171217/2150Z/KSFO/ZBAA
Times:
12:07
11:38
11:57
11:50
11:53
12:01
11:58
11:33
11:58
11:46
12:05

Average times:11:53
Average of times: 11:36
Average speed: 9504kms/11:36= 819 kms.
Number of considered flights: 21

Total number of flights: 118
Average speed of B748 = (17x543+25x834+27x819+6x827+22x725+21x819)/118= 765 kms.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 18, 2017, 05:48:16 AM
Someone beat you to it, brotherhood.

They're hyper-accurate and in real time (http://www.arcgis.com/home/webscene/viewer.html?webscene=128ba9498cca447ab6ec356b84fee879).

(https://image.ibb.co/dAGUaR/itisactuallyimpossibletobesoretarded.png)

Thank you for this link!  That’s a fantastic visualization, and it fills in some gaps in my southern hemisphere coverage.  I'm going to add Luanda (Angola, west coast of Africa) and French Polynesia (east of Auckland).
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 18, 2017, 08:12:52 AM
As a suggest, Doha airport is important too. Can you add Doha Airport  (with code as OTHH) to the chart? Because, there is a flight almost everywhere from Doha. It is almost the center of the earth for aircrafts.
Thank you for the suggestion.  I had considered Doha, but chose Dubai instead as a better connected airport.  There are several key airports to which Doha does not have non-stop flights.  Bold cities are in my matrix, non-bold are not well enough connected to make the primary list:
• Mauritius (FIMP)
• Dakar (GOOY)
• Cairo (CAI)
• Lisbon (LIS)
• Toronto (YYZ)

There are a couple of airports connected to Doha but not to Dubai:
• Helsinki (HEL)
• Atlanta (ATL)

I will keep Doha on my list as a second choice from the region.  As I add more airports, maybe Doha will earn a spot in the matrix.  (Earning a spot on the list is a function of several factors: the number of far-away airports that a candidate connects to, how many connections-in-common it shares with those other airports, and how far away the airport is from others.  Perth and Mauritius do not connect to a huge number of other airports, but they are remote from a lot of them and thus provide a good data point.  There are a lot of highly connected airports in Europe that I am not including because they're all pretty close to each other.  I chose Madrid over the slightly better connected Paris, for example, to extend the spread as far west as I could)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 19, 2017, 12:38:43 AM
A346
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A346

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA190/history/20171219/0740Z/FAOR/FIMP
Direct: 3071 kms
Times:
03:53
03:50
03:42
03:46

Average time: 03:47

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA191/history/20171219/1240Z/FIMP/FAOR
Times:
04:17
04:30
04:37
04:58

Average time:04:35

Average of times: 04:11
Average speed:3071kms/04:11= 732 kms.
Number of considered flights:8

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR654/history/20171219/0610Z/OTHH/VCBI
Direct: 3615 kms.
Times:
04:55
04:55
05:03
04:49
04:52
04:34
05:03
04:55
04:52

Average time: 04:53

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR655/history/20171219/1450Z/VCBI/OTHH
Times:
05:07
05:18
05:17
05:23
05:14
05:18
05:26
05:02
05:03
04:55

Average time:05:12

Average of times:05:02
Average speed: 3615kms/05:02 = 717kmh.
Number of considered flights: 19

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR131/history/20171219/0520Z/OTHH/LIRF
Direct: 4043 kms.
Times:
06:28
06:09
06:15
06:48
06:18
06:22
06:19
06:38
06:51
06:24
06:44
06:13
06:30

Average time:06:27

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR132/history/20171219/1505Z/LIRF/OTHH
Times:
05:40
05:30
05:20
05:34
05:27
05:38
05:25
05:29
05:15
05:13
05:36
05:36
05:45

Average time:05:29

Average of times:05:58
Average speed: 4043kms/05:58=676kmh.
Number of considered flights:26

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH459/history/20171219/0525Z/KSFO/EDDM
Direct:9447kms.
Times:
11:03
11:05
11:10
11:10
11:26
11:09
11:25
11:24
11:33
11:20
11:22
11:29
11:24

Average time:11:18
Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH458/history/20171218/1515Z/EDDM/KSFO
Times:
12:07
11:43
12:04
12:03
11:54
11:24
11:38
11:39
12:13
11:55
11:46
11:41
12:13

Average time:11:52
Average of times:11:35
Average speed: 9447kms/11:35=815kmh.
Number of considered flights:26

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH435/history/20171219/0325Z/KORD/EDDM
Direct:7278kms
Times:
08:38
08:17
08:24
08:27
08:35
08:12
08:17
08:16
08:02
07:57
08:19
08:33
08:36

Average time:08:21

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DLH434/history/20171219/1445Z/EDDM/KORD
Times:
09:46
10:31
10:19
09:55
09:40
09:53
09:27
09:30
09:36
10:07
11:15
10:03
10:08
10:09

Average time:10:01
Average of times:09:11
Average speed: 7278kms/09:11=792kmh.
Number of considered flights:27

Total considered flights: (8+19+26+26+27)=106

Average speed of A346= (732x8+717x19+676x26+815x26+792x27)/106= 751kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 19, 2017, 01:56:21 AM
A321
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A321

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1988/history/20171219/0755Z/EGLL/LTBA
Direct:2517kms.
Times:
03:46
03:40
03:48
03:52
03:46
04:05
03:52

Average time:03:49

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1987/history/20171219/1810Z/LTBA/EGLL
Times:
04:04
04:37
04:11
04:18
04:22
04:32
04:42
04:15

Average time:04:22
Average of times: 04:06
Average speed:2517kms/04:06=613kmh.
Number of considered flights: 15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/WZZ2202/history/20171219/0815Z/EGGW/LHBP
Direct: 1493kms.
Times:
02:12
02:01
02:03
02:02
01:54
02:00
01:55
02:37
02:13
01:59
01:52
02:02
02:02

Average time:02:04

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/WZZ2201/history/20171220/0500Z/LHBP/EGGW
Times:
02:12
02:12
02:14
02:21
02:19
02:26
02:19
02:17
02:26
02:17
02:32
02:18
02:11

Average time:02:18
Average of times:02:11
Average speed: 1493kms/02:11=682kmh.
Number of considered flights: 26

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1823/history/20171219/0810Z/LTBA/LFPG
Direct:2239kms.
Times:
03:30
03:42
03:49
03:46
03:51
03:29
04:04
04:21
03:48
03:45

Average time:03:40

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1824/history/20171219/1250Z/LFPG/LTBA
Times:
03:45
03:20
03:10
03:09
03:51
03:51
03:04
04:10
03:45
03:28

Average time:03:33
Average of times: 3:40
Average speed: 2239kms/3:40=608 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY2225/history/20171219/0915Z/LTAJ/LTBA
Direct: 872kms
Times:
01:49
01:48
01:39
01:51
01:45
01:58
01:48

Average time: 1:40

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/OHY48/history/20171219/2055Z/LTBA/LTAJ
Times:
01:30
01:30
01:30
01:42
01:30
01:42
01:30
01:29

Average time:01:32
Average of times:01:40
Average speed:872kms/01:40= 520kmh.
Number of considered flights: 15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL560/history/20171222/2250Z/KDFW/KPHL
Direct:2095kms
Times:
02:12
02:50
02:24
02:50
02:23
02:51
02:10
02:50
02:24
02:41
02:21
03:03
02:11
02:52
02:25
03:17
02:29
02:52
02:15

Average time: 02:35

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1653/history/20171224/0125Z/KPHL/KDFW
Times:
04:31
03:50
03:40
04:43
03:52
03:57
03:50
04:56
03:54
03:56
03:48
03:56

Average time:04:04

Average of times:03:20
Average speed:2095kms/03:20= 628 kmh.
Number of considered flight:31

Total number of considered flights:107

Average speed of A321 = (613x15+682x26+608x20+520x15+628x31)/107= 628 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 19, 2017, 02:49:45 AM
B764

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B764

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL18/history/20171219/0925Z/LIMC/KEWR
Direct:6443 kms.
Times:
08:59
09:11
09:43
09:35
09:51
09:47
09:53
09:49
09:45
09:54
09:35

Average time:09:38

Opposite:https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL19/history/20171218/2325Z/KEWR/LIMC
Times:
08:00
08:02
07:36
07:30
07:23
07:15
06:59
07:54
07:44
07:16

Average time:07:33
Average of times:08:36
Average speed:6443kms/08:36= 749 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 21

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL150/history/20171219/0705Z/SPJC/KATL
Direct:5141kms.
Times:
06:47
06:50
06:31
06:38
06:47
06:40
06:25
06:41
06:14
06:20

Average time: 06:35

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL151/history/20171218/2253Z/KATL/SPJC
Times:
06:20
06:26
06:24
06:28
06:28
06:21
06:09
06:41
06:36
06:44

Average time:06:27
Average of times: 06:31
Average speed: 5141kms/06:31=787kmh.
Number of considered flights:20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL197/history/20171219/0433Z/KMCO/SBGR
Direct:6876kms.
Times:
08:33
08:44
08:13
08:31
08:32
08:28

Average time: 08:30

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL196/history/20171220/0155Z/SBGR/KMCO
Times:
09:38
09:09
09:05
09:04
08:49
09:11

Average time: 09:09kms.
Average of times: 08:49
Average speed: 6876kms/08:49=779kmh.
Number of considered flights: 12

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL84/history/20171219/0359Z/KATL/LFPG
Direct:7064kms.
Times:
08:25
08:26
07:54
07:56
07:37
08:13
07:49
08:34
07:46
08:19
08:27

Average time: 08:07

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL85/history/20171219/1420Z/LFPG/KATL
Times:
07:43
09:50
10:09
09:58
10:02
09:40
09:59
09:22
10:39
10:26
10:13
09:41

Average time:09:48
Average of times:08:58
Average speed:7064kms/08:58= 788kmh.
Number of considered flights:23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL362/history/20171219/0220Z/PHNL/KEWR
Direct: 7982km.
Times:
09:25
09:10
09:12
09:17
09:35
09:30
09:37
09:28
09:21

Average time: 09:23

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL363/history/20171218/1335Z/KEWR/PHNL
Times:
10:53
10:51
10:33
10:45
10:49
10:52
10:58
10:18
11:00
10:49

Average time:10:46
Average of times:10:05
Average speed: 7982kms/10:05= 791kmh.
Number of considered flights: 19

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL131/history/20171219/0955Z/EDDM/KATL
Direct: 7710kms.
Times:
11:05
10:30
10:22
10:44
10:44
11:04
11:18
10:46
11:05
10:55
11:04

Average time: 10:52

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL130/history/20171218/2258Z/KATL/EDDM
Times:
08:58
08:46
08:21
08:44
08:49
08:18
08:17
09:10
08:01
09:13
08:29
09:01
09:09

Average time: 08:42
Average of times: 09:47
Average speed: 7710kms/09:47=787kmh.
Number of considered flights:24

Total considered number of flights: 119

Average speed of B764 = (749x21+787x20+779x12+788x23+791x19+787x24)/119= 780kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 19, 2017, 11:01:20 AM
It appears that you are using the distances found at FlightAware to calculate your speeds.  If those distances are accurate, why not just use them directly instead?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 19, 2017, 11:44:03 PM
It appears that you are using the distances found at FlightAware to calculate your speeds.  If those distances are accurate, why not just use them directly instead?

Because the speed which is written in the page does not overlap with the value of Distance/time.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 20, 2017, 12:11:27 AM
There should be a lower and upper limit for speed of airplanes, according to our calculations.

For example:

We pre accept the values about speeds/number of repeat as follow:

400kmhx10
500kmhx20
500kmhx20
600kmhx10

In this example, we consider the average speed as 500kmh. But as a better estimation, one of the highest or lowest value may be wrong. Because after the 500kmh is calculated, we'll use this value instead of 400kmh and 600kmh. But 400kmh isin't the lovest value. For calculating lovest value, one of them should be erased and other one can be calculated; as follow:

Considered values should be for maximum speed limit:

Average of:
500x20
500x20
600x10

= 520kmh.

And

Considered values should be for minimal speed limit:
400x10
500x20
500x20

=480kmh.

This is better estimation using (480,520) as peak points than use (400; 600) per as minimal and maximum values.

Basicly, it seems consider +-5% is enough to fulfill the mistakens.

So;

After speeds are calculated, like this example, the peak points will be added.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 20, 2017, 04:43:10 AM
A318

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A318

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR1566/history/20171220/1140Z/LFPG/LIRQ
Direct:880kms.
Times:
01:52
01:44
01:42
01:34
01:35
01:46
01:44
02:07
01:37
01:31
01:34
01:39
Average: 1:42

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR1567/history/20171220/1415Z/LIRQ/LFPG
Times:
02:27
01:36
01:39
01:44
01:50
01:54
01:37
01:50
01:53
01:46
01:45
01:24

Average time:1:47
Average of times:1:44
Average speed: 880kms/1:44=505 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 24

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AVA9429/history/20171220/1031Z/SKCC/SKCL
Direct: 402kms. (*corrected)
Times:
00:49
00:53
00:47
01:04
00:38
00:47
00:52
00:46
00:45
00:32

Average time: 00:47

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AVA9428/history/20171221/0101Z/SKBO/SKCC
Times:
00:43
00:41
00:44
00:40
00:40

Average time:0:41
Average of times:0:44
Average speed: 402kms/0:44=548kmh. *corrected
Number of considered flights:15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROT302/history/20171220/1015Z/EDDF/LROP
Direct: 1454 kms.
Times:
02:35
02:26
02:23
02:30
02:18
02:17
02:20
02:38
02:25
03:05
02:27

Average time:02:29

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROT301/history/20171220/0640Z/LROP/EDDF
Times: 02:13
02:30
02:19
02:44
02:48
02:48
02:33
02:32
02:34
02:45
02:28
02:35

Average time: 02:34
Average of times: 02:31
Average speed: 1454kms/02:31= 575 kmh.
Number of considered flights:23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR1850/history/20171220/1120Z/LFPG/EKCH
Direct:1006 kms.
Times:
02:12
02:10
01:52
01:51
01:42
01:42
01:38
01:43
01:42
Average time: 1:50

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR1851/history/20171220/1405Z/EKCH/LFPG
Times:
02:02
01:37
01:58
01:50
01:55
01:57
01:40
01:57

Average time: 01:52
Average of times: 01:51
Average speed: 1006kms/01:51= 543kms.
Number of considered flights: 17

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROT391/history/20171220/1030Z/LROP/EGLL
Direct:2108kms
Times:
03:20
03:26
03:32
03:44
03:49
03:54
03:51
03:22
03:42
03:24
03:31

Average time: 03:35

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROT392/history/20171220/1450Z/EGLL/LROP
Times:
03:20
03:25
03:24
03:11
03:06
03:16
03:11
03:26
03:24
03:03
03:17

Average time: 03:16
Average of times: 03:26
Average speed: 2108kms/03:26=613 kmh.
Number of considered flights:22

Total number of considered flights: 101

Average speed of A318 = (505x24+548x15+575x23+543x17x613x22)/101 = 557kmh. *corrected
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 21, 2017, 05:50:27 AM
B77W

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B77W

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR946/history/20171221/1235Z/LFPG/MUHA
Direct: 7752kms.
Times:
09:47
09:50
10:26
10:39
10:17
10:12
10:41
11:02
10:23
10:06
10:33
10:07
10:09

Average time: 10:19

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR943/history/20171221/0355Z/MUHA/LFPG
Times:
08:10
08:35
08:12
09:03
08:33
08:44
07:54
07:49
08:34
08:30
08:22
08:32
08:30
08:25

Average time:08:25
Average of times:09:22
Average speed: 7752kms/09:22= 827 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 27

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE730/history/20171221/1225Z/HUEN/OMDB
Direct: 3735 kms.
Time:
05:05
04:55
04:58
05:12
05:26
05:29
05:13
05:22
05:28
05:18
05:14

Average time: 05:14

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE729/history/20171221/0525Z/OMDB/HUEN
Time:
05:28
05:32
05:12
05:25
05:19
05:34
05:16
05:20
05:09
04:56
05:03
05:06

Average time:05:16
Average of times:05:15
Average speed: 3735kms/05:15=710 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 23

Direct: 6204 kms.
Times:
08:23
08:37
08:21
08:30
09:27
08:46
08:52
08:54
09:12
08:46
08:40
09:53

Average time:08:51

Times:
07:14
07:08
07:12
07:35
07:28
08:09
07:28
07:09
06:50
06:38
07:08
06:53
06:59

Average time: 07:13
Average of times: 08:02
Average speed:6204kms/ 08:02= 772kmh.
Number of considered flights:25

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI234/history/20171221/1110Z/EHAM/CYYZ
Direct: 5997kms.
Times:
08:20
08:20
08:06
07:58
08:06
08:20
08:11
08:33
08:29
08:02
08:38

Average time:08:16

Opposite:  https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI233/history/20171220/2340Z/CYYZ/EHAM
Times:
07:21
07:18
07:25
07:29
07:03
07:28
07:10
07:03
06:25
06:55
06:52

Average time: 07:08
Average speed: 5997kms/07:08= 778kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL35/history/20171223/0035Z/RKSI/KATL
Direct: 11500kms.
Times:
13:27
13:00
13:09
13:05
12:47
12:38
12:49
12:58
13:14
13:10
13:48

Average time: 13:05

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/KAL36/history/20171222/1655Z/KATL/RKSI
Times:
15:07
14:48
14:38
15:01
14:52
15:03
15:04
14:42
15:19
15:04
14:04

Average time: 14:52
Average of times: 13:59
Average speed: 11500km s/ 13:59= 822kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

Total considered number of flights: 119

Average speed of B77W = (827x27+710x23+772x25+778x22+822x22)/119= 783 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on December 21, 2017, 10:12:35 AM
lmfao....We "feel the distance to be shorter".

The measurement is still the same.  You travel at a certain speed over a certain time period and there is your distance.  This is not even remotely complicated...just look at one of the already existing maps that are already verified to be accurate...you can verify the distances yourself.

You are never actually goinxg to create a map this way.  You can't delete reality the same as you can delete comments that destroy your theory.

It seems a tremendous waste of time.Most, if not all, of this has already been done.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 21, 2017, 03:51:23 PM
I remind todays proverb was: "Dogs bark but the caravan goes on."" (Turkish proverb).
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 21, 2017, 04:51:28 PM
You all are understand nothing about my working.

Lets look it together whats happening:

This is a route:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CES2598/history/20171213/0810Z/VTCT/ZPPP
Google claims the distance between these two Chinese cities is: 654 kms.
Average speed of a B735 in this route is: 413 kmh. Average flying time with this airplane is: 01:35

This is another direction runned with same aircraft: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UTA234/history/20171213/0530Z/USMU/USTR
Google claims this distance is 1148 kms.
Average speed of a B735 between these Russian cities is: 682kmh. And average flying time with this airplane is: 01:41

Lets examine whats happening?

This is the average speed of this aircraft: 533kmh.

As we clearly that, the average flight time with same type of aircraft is about same: (01:35 and 01:41). But google claims one of distance of two Chinese cities as 682kms and the other one the distance between two Russian cities as 1148kms. Now we'll correct it by accepting speeds equally as:

The real distance of Chinese cities: 01:35x533kmh = 843 km (google claims 654 kms, 22% less)
The real distance of Russian cities: 01:41x533kmh= 897kms. (google claims 1148 kms, 28% more)

As we clearly see that, google claims the distances in Russia and Chinia as increasing the size of Russia about 50% more than China according to the reality. I mean, in fact, distance in China should be 50% more according to distances in Russia. If we calculate it for convert distances to areas; 1,5^2 =%225

This means, China should be %225 increased according to Russia.

If we calculate them one by one:

Russia should be the area of: 0,72^2 (google's mistake) * 17.100.000km^2 (Russia's size) = 8865 km^2 (about half of Russia in the map)
China should be the area of: 1,22^2 (google's mistake) * 9.597 km (China's size) = 14.284 km^2

So tell me, in fact which country is bigger, Russia or China?

You may not see this reality in neither a round, nor a flat model.

You are talking that this working already done. So tell me, how the fking workers doesn't aware of China in fact is bigger than Russia about 2 times more as size. Tell me, are all of the Geographic workers are fking idiots, or s.ow's??

We'll correct the mistakes of all of these s.o.w's.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 22, 2017, 12:36:34 AM
A388

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A388

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA26/history/20171222/0720Z/EDDF/KJFK
Direct: 6195kms.
Times:
08:48
08:38
08:55
08:17
08:42
08:49
08:31
08:54
09:08
08:54
09:04
08:57
08:50

Average time: 08:48

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA25/history/20171223/0115Z/KJFK/EDDF
Times:
07:11
07:25
07:30
07:47
07:16
06:34
07:19
07:31
07:08
06:40
07:07
06:02
07:05

Average time: 07:07
Average of times:07:57
Average speed:6195kms/07:57= 778 kms.
Number of considered flights: 26

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA26/history/20171220/1555Z/WSSS/EDDF
Direct: 10292 kms.
Times:
12:58
12:42
13:14
13:19
13:06
12:45
13:05
13:17
12:59
12:55
13:00
13:12
12:48

Average time: 13:01

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA25/history/20171222/1040Z/EDDF/WSSS
Times:
11:49
12:18
12:00
12:03
12:14
12:27
12:09
12:17
12:29
12:08
11:53
12:18

Average time: 12:10
Average of times: 12:35
Average speed:10292kms/12:35= 817 kmh.
Number of considered flights:25

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR203/history/20171222/0700Z/KLAX/RKSI
Direct: 9636kms.
Times:
14:08
14:27
13:21
13:41
13:42
13:37
13:10
12:55
13:04
13:03
13:04

Average time:13:28

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR204/history/20171222/1140Z/RKSI/KLAX
Times:
10:47
11:24
10:48
10:55
10:34
10:30
11:42
10:44
10:47
11:08
11:00
11:15

Average time: 10:57
Average of times: 12:13
Average speed: 9636 /12:13= 789 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE406/history/20171222/0605Z/OMDB/YMML
Direct: 11658kms.
13:01
12:59
13:03
13:25
12:46
12:52
12:49
13:03
12:48
13:28
13:11
Average time: 13:02

Opposite:https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAE407/history/20171222/1130Z/YMML/OMDB
Times:
13:33
13:43
13:43
13:57
14:07
13:39
13:38
13:56
13:48
14:41
13:54
13:31

Average time: 13:50
Average of times:13:26
Average speed: 11658kms/13:26=867 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETD450/history/20171221/0515Z/OMAA/YSSY
Direct: 12.075kms.
Times:
13:56
13:55
13:44
14:03

Average time: 13:54

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETD451/history/20171223/0520Z/YSSY/OMAA
Times:
14:17
14:13
14:35
14:15

Average time: 14:20
Average of times: 14:07
Average speed: 12075kms/14:07= 855 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 8

Total considered number of flights: 105

Average speed of A388 = (778x26+817x25+789x23+867x23+855x8)/105= 815 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 22, 2017, 05:33:30 AM
Global Chinese map is completely wrong. Distances seems on map about 20-50% less than reality. So speeds seem very few. This situation is changing the real speed of airplane. So distances inside China will not be considered. We'll retroactive corrections on calculated speeds, which contains flights inside China, soon.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 22, 2017, 06:01:26 AM
B789

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B789

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA26/history/20171222/0950Z/ZSPD/CYVR
Direct: 9027kms.
Times:
09:43
10:11
10:12
10:09
11:05
10:09
09:32
10:35
10:00
10:32
10:30

Average time:10:14

Opposite:https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA25/history/20171222/2020Z/CYVR/ZSPD
Times:
12:11
12:51
11:48
12:06
12:02
11:47
11:53
12:48
11:47
11:19
11:35

Average time:12:00
Average of times: 11:07
Average speed:9027kms/11:07= 811 kmh.
Number of considered flights:22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA847/history/20171222/1050Z/EDDM/CYYZ
Direct: 6649kms
Times:
08:56
09:02
08:54
08:53
09:09
08:57
08:49
08:49
08:54
08:56
09:01

Average time: 08:56

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA846/history/20171222/0120Z/CYYZ/EDDM
Times:
08:14
07:23
07:32
07:48
07:44
07:44
08:00
07:39
07:50
07:19
07:37
07:28

Average time:07:41
Average of times: 08:18
Average speed: 6649kms/08:18= 800kmh.
Number of considered flights:23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETD485/history/20171222/1259Z/YBBN/OMAA
Direct: 12025kms.

Times:
14:09
13:52
13:43
14:05
14:14
14:13
14:14
14:12
14:07
14:02

Average time:14:05

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETD484/history/20171221/1740Z/OMAA/YBBN
Times:
13:54
13:44
13:35
14:00
13:42
13:46
13:31
13:16
13:21
13:32
13:41

Average time:13:38
Average of times: 13:51
Average speed:12025 kms/13:51= 867 kmh.
Number of considered flights:21

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL199/history/20171222/1225Z/ZSPD/KLAX
Direct:  10429 kms.
Times:
11:39
10:54
10:56
10:45
10:50
10:34
10:55
11:15
11:10
11:22
11:18

Average time:11:03

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL198/history/20171222/2030Z/KLAX/ZSPD
Times:
13:52
14:22
13:53
13:47
13:34
14:00
13:22
13:52
13:19
13:38
13:55

Average time: 13:46
Average of times: 12:25
Average speed: = 10429kms/12:25= 840 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ282/history/20171222/1215Z/NZAA/WSSS
Direct: 8419kms.
Times:
10:17
10:08
09:55
10:08
10:18
10:07
10:20
10:11
10:07
09:44
09:56

Average time: 10:06

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ281/history/20171223/0055Z/WSSS/NZAA
Times:
09:41
09:45
09:38
09:56
09:51
09:46
09:52
09:39
09:42
09:49
09:29
09:14

Average time: 09:41
Average of times: 09:54
Average speed: 8419kms/09:54= 850kmh.
Number of considered flights: 23

Total number of considered flights: 111

Average speed of B789 = (811x22+800x23+867x21+840x22+850x23)/111= 833kmh.

(None of Inside China flights considered)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 22, 2017, 08:44:56 PM
A306

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A306

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS741/history/20171223/0341Z/KTUL/KSDF
Direct: 926 kms.
01:07
01:19
01:08
01:16
01:09
01:15
01:14
Average time: 01:12

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS742/history/20171223/0956Z/KSDF/KTUL
Times:
01:37
01:25
01:26
01:33
01:32
01:27
01:21
01:20

Average time: 01:27
Average of times: 01:20
Average speed: 926kms/01:20= 694kms
Number of considered flights: 15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS713/history/20171223/0200Z/KDFW/KSDF
Direct: 1180kms.
Times:
01:30
01:25
01:35
01:39

Average time:01:32

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS756/history/20171222/0340Z/KSDF/KDFW
Times:
01:51
01:44
01:59
01:52
01:53

Average time:01:51
Average of times: 01:42
Average speed: 1180kms/ 01:42=694kmh
Number of considered flights: 9

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS301/history/20171223/0348Z/KAUS/KSDF
Direct:  1411 kms
Times:
01:56
01:43
01:53
01:51
01:41
01:36
01:43
02:07
01:48
01:44

Average time: 01:48

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS300/history/20171222/0930Z/KSDF/KAUS
Times:
02:15
02:01
02:12
02:10
02:22
02:24
02:00
02:02
01:58
02:09

Average time:02:09
Average of times:01:58
Average speed: 1411kms/01:58=713 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX1303/history/20171223/0342Z/KMDT/KMEM
Direct: 1296 kms.
Times:
02:27
02:08
02:14
02:21
01:53
02:05
02:10
01:55
02:04

Average time:02:08

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/FDX1571/history/20171223/1026Z/KMEM/KMDT
Times:
01:30
01:37

Average time: 01:33
Average of times: 01:51
Average speed: 1296kms/01:51= 700kmh.
Number of considered flights: 11

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS907/history/20171223/0321Z/KBUR/KSDF
Direct: 2948kms
Times:
03:21
03:16
03:41
03:48
03:25
03:35
03:35
03:36
03:40
03:40
03:39

Average time:03:34

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS914/history/20171223/0949Z/KSDF/KBUR
Times:
04:04
04:20
04:01
04:05
04:05
03:55
03:45
03:56
03:48
03:46
03:54

Average time:03:58
Average of times:03:46
Average speed: 2948kms/03:46= 782kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS955/history/20171223/0330Z/KMHR/KRFD
Direct: 2745kms
Times:
03:07
02:59
03:05
03:13
03:27
03:11
03:31
03:26

Average time:03:14

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UPS2038/history/20171221/1647Z/KRFD/KMHR
Times:
03:34
04:02
03:44
03:28
03:44
03:30

Average time: 3:40
Average of times: 3:27
Average speed: 2745kms/3:27= 793kmh.
Number of considered flights:  14

Direct: 765kms.
Times:
01:26
01:17
01:29
01:20
01:22
01:26
01:46
01:18
01:18

Average time:1:24

Times:
01:00
01:04
01:00
00:57
00:57
01:00
01:01
01:04
01:02

Average time:01:00
Average of times: 01:12
Average speed: 765kms/01:12=632kmh.
Number of considered flights: 18

Total number of considered flights: 104

Average speed of A306 = (694x15+694x9+713x20+700x11+782x22+793x14+632x13)104= 722 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 23, 2017, 03:56:21 AM
A332

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A332

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CFG168/history/20171223/1045Z/EDDL/MDPC
Direct: 7389kms.
Time:
09:31
09:52
10:01
09:37

Average time: 09:45

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CFG169/history/20171221/2250Z/MDPC/EDDL
Time:
08:53
08:35
08:33
08:13

Average time:08:33
Average of times: 09:09
Average speed:7389kms/09:09= 807kms
Number of considered flights: 8

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/HAL452/history/20171223/1057Z/YSSY/PHNL
Direct: 8180kms

Times:
09:22
09:54
10:00
09:24
09:12
09:28
09:42
09:50
09:46
09:43
09:30

Average time: 09:37

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/HAL451/history/20171223/2200Z/PHNL/YSSY
Time:
10:31
10:34
10:23
10:48
10:57
11:00
10:58
10:18
10:23
10:33
10:23

Average time: 10:37
Average of times: 10:07
Average speed:8180kms/10:07=808kms.
Number of considered flights:22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA111/history/20171223/1122Z/YPPH/NZAA
Direct: 5343kms
Time: 05:46
05:51
06:04
06:25
Average time:06:01

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA112/history/20171223/0530Z/NZAA/YPPH
Time:
07:47
07:42
07:05

Average time: 07:31
Average of times: 06:46
Average speed:5343kms/06:46= 789kmh.
Number of considered flights: 7

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP81/history/20171223/1035Z/LPPR/SBGR
Direct: 8190 kms
Time:
10:55
10:40
10:29
Average time:10:41

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP80/history/20171216/2255Z/SBGR/LPPR
Time: 10:12
09:57
09:58

Average time:10:02
Average of times: 10:21
Average speed: 8190kms/10:21=790kms.
Number of considered flights: 6

Links(Aircrafts constantly are taking different flight numbers in this route. So I collected them)

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC611/history/20171224/1045Z/LFPG/CYUL
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC397/history/20171221/1045Z/LFPG/CYUL
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC211/history/20171220/1045Z/LFPG/CYUL
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC125/history/20171220/0845Z/LFPG/CYUL
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC111/history/20171219/1045Z/LFPG/CYUL
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC711/history/20171218/1045Z/LFPG/CYUL
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC611/history/20171217/1045Z/LFPG/CYUL

Direct: 5530kms
Time:
08:18
07:34
08:06
08:15
08:21
07:37
08:21
08:08
07:48
08:18

Average time: 08:04

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC610/history/20171224/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC136/history/20171223/2350Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC510/history/20171223/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC134/history/20171222/2345Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC126/history/20171221/2345Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC396/history/20171221/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC210/history/20171220/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC124/history/20171219/2345Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC110/history/20171219/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC710/history/20171218/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TSC610/history/20171217/0200Z/CYUL/LFPG

Time:
06:37
06:16
07:13
06:22
06:38
06:48
06:45
06:02
07:13
05:59
06:29
06:38
06:42
06:37

Average time: 06:35
Average of times: 07:20
Average speed: 5530kms/07:20= 754 kmh
Number of considered flights: 24

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL735/history/20171223/1035Z/EGCC/KPHL
Direct: 5517kms.
Time:
07:59
07:55
07:45
07:47
07:48
08:00
08:03
07:59
07:55
08:06
08:14
08:45
08:19

Average time: 08:02

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL734/history/20171223/0200Z/KPHL/EGCC
Time:
06:20
06:41
06:43
06:47
07:01
07:01
06:44
06:30
06:45
06:52
06:27
06:09
07:20
06:10

Average time: 06:40
Average of times: 07:21
Average speed: 5517kms/07:21= 749kmh.
Number of considered flights: 27

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AZU8751/history/20171223/1005Z/LPPT/SBKP
Direct: 7938kms.
Time:
10:06
10:16
10:11
10:27
10:28
10:28
10:25
10:10
09:31
10:23

Average time: 10:14

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AZU8750/history/20171222/2015Z/SBKP/LPPT
Time:
09:38
09:47
09:47
09:54
09:38
09:22
09:53
09:33
09:53
09:53
09:27

Average time: 09:42
Average of times: 09:58
Average speed: 7938kms/09:58= 796kmh
Number of considered flights: 21

Total number of considered flights: 115

Average speed of A332 = (807x8+808x22+789x7+790x6+754x24+749x27+796x21)/115= 779 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 23, 2017, 06:03:25 PM
A319

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A319

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1505/history/20171224/0045Z/KDEN/KCLT
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT200/history/20171224/0705Z/KDEN/KCLT
Direct: 2150kms.
Times:
03:19
03:13
02:51
03:13
02:40
02:50
02:46
03:01
03:01
02:49
02:49
03:04
02:52
02:50
Average time: 02:57

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL579/history/20171223/1331Z/KCLT/KDEN
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/FFT201/history/20171223/1155Z/KCLT/KDEN
Times:
03:51
03:55
04:11
03:37
03:47
03:43
03:38
03:49
03:47
03:45
03:33
03:34

Average time: 03:46
Average of times: 03:21
Average speed: 2150kms/03:21= 639kmh
Number of considered flights:27

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/LNE1451/history/20171224/0105Z/SEQM/SPJC
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GLG7388/history/20171223/2329Z/SEQM/SPJC
Direct: 1332kms
Times:
01:46
01:50
01:48
02:20
01:53
01:51
01:51
02:20
02:20
01:52

Average time:01:59

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/GLG7389/history/20171223/1532Z/SPJC/SEQM
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/LNE1450/history/20171223/1359Z/SPJC/SEQM
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAE516/history/20171224/0240Z/SPJC/SEQM
Times:
01:47
01:51
02:30
01:50
01:51
01:51
01:51
01:52
01:47
01:51
01:56
01:49
01:50
01:51
01:51
01:51
01:51
01:51
01:57

Average time: 01:53
Average of times: 01:56
Average speed: 1332kms/01:56= 689kmh.
Number of considered flights: 29

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1901/history/20171220/1400Z/KBOS/KDTW
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL753/history/20171223/2340Z/KBOS/KDTW
Direct: 1017
Times:
02:17
02:33
02:09
02:14
02:18
02:18
02:28
02:45
02:20
02:36
02:08

Average time: 02:22

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1760/history/20171224/0108Z/KDTW/KBOS
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2345/history/20171223/1845Z/KDTW/KBOS
Times:
01:38
01:42
01:38
01:38
01:35

Average time: 01:38
Average of times: 02:00
Average speed: 1017kms/02:00=507kmh.
Number of considered flights: 16

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROU1858/history/20171224/0105Z/KLAS/CYUL
Direct: 3600kms
Times:
04:13
04:08
04:52
04:28
04:29
04:42
04:24
04:32
04:43

Average time: 04:30

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROU1855/history/20171223/1340Z/CYUL/KLAS
Times:
06:16
05:32
06:06
06:55
05:28
05:45
06:10
05:17
05:28
05:45
05:43

Average time: 05:51
Average of times: 05:10
Average speed: 695kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAI432/history/20171224/0150Z/MSLP/MMMX
Direct:1259kms.
Times:
01:52
01:48
02:08
01:44
01:40
01:39
01:46
01:42

Average time: 01:47

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAI433/history/20171223/1100Z/MMMX/MSLP
Times:
01:45
01:46
01:45
01:46
01:46
01:42

Average time: 01:45
Average of times: 01:46
Average speed: 1259kms/01:46= 711kmh
Number of considered flights: 14

Total Number of considered flights: 106

Average speed of A319= (639x27+689x29+507x16+695x20+711x14)/106= 652 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 23, 2017, 06:09:06 PM
If there is a work done before about the "real flying speeds" of the aircrafts, bring it here. We may use them for comparison and improvement.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rabinoz on December 23, 2017, 07:10:27 PM
lmfao....We "feel the distance to be shorter".

The measurement is still the same.  You travel at a certain speed over a certain time period and there is your distance.  This is not even remotely complicated...just look at one of the already existing maps that are already verified to be accurate...you can verify the distances yourself.

You are never actually going to create a map this way.  You can't delete reality the same as you can delete comments that destroy your theory.

If you have a better idea, lets do it. I'm steady ready to listen it. If you haven't, shut up and sit down.
I don't know about you, but I have a "map",  though it won't all fit onto a single flat piece of paper without distortion.
All distances that I have checked out come out as close as I can measure. Here is a very small version:
(http://bestanimations.com/Earth&Space/Earth/earth-spinning-rotating-animation-22.gif)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 23, 2017, 08:08:01 PM
We'll need to the masters of photoshop and cgi  soon.

So it is a good idea someone's develop themselves in this matter.

During we continue the working, someones may create earlier versions of map and we may publish it as an estimation.

For example:

It is show up that compared to the all other maps including round and flat ones, China size should x2 bigger than old one. Russian size should be %50 less than old. Indonesia is about %30-50 longer, Australia about 1500 kms to the east, related with China's and Indonesia's growing. Europe is about same size. We have not enough data for America, but perhaps the size about same but shape may be a bit different.

an earler map can be made taking them into account.

PS: I'm weak on that last stage of this working and need a help.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 23, 2017, 08:59:16 PM
B 737

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B737

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DTA240/history/20171224/0400Z/FNLU/FNUE
Direct: 798kms.
Time:
01:10
01:10
01:10
01:10
01:10
01:10
01:10

Average times: 01:10

Opposite:https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DTA241/history/20171223/0610Z/FNUE/FNLU
Time:
01:36
01:27
01:22
01:17
01:47
01:36
01:02

Average times:01:26
Average of times:01:18
Average speed: 798kms/01:18=611 kmh.
Number of considered flights:14

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA99/history/20171224/0345Z/KSEA/PANC
Direct: 2328kms.
Time:
03:29
03:50
03:35
04:00
03:52
03:50
04:00
03:28
03:38

Average times:03:44

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA106/history/20171224/0650Z/PANC/KSEA
Time:
03:08
03:28
03:08
03:13
03:16
03:33
03:08

Average times: 03:16
Average of times: 03:30
Average speed: 2328kms/03:30= 664kmh.
Number of considered flights:16

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/WJA138/history/20171224/0400Z/CYVR/CYYC
Direct: 687kms.
Time:
01:26
01:39
01:16
01:06
01:20
01:14
01:22

Average times: 01:20

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/WJA139/history/20171225/0430Z/CYYC/CYVR
Time:
01:47
01:29
01:41
01:39
01:20
01:34
01:27

Average times: 01:33
Average of times: 01:27
Average speed: 687kms/01:27= 473kmh.
Number of considered flights: 14

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA342/history/20171224/0340Z/KSEA/KSFO
Direct: 1095kms.
Time:
02:02
02:03
02:03
02:05
02:23
01:52
02:09

Average times: 2:05

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA315/history/20171223/2150Z/KSFO/KSEA
Time:

01:59
02:10
02:07
01:59
02:08
02:03
01:55

Average times:02:03
Average of times:02:04
Average speed: 1095kms/02:04= 529kmh.
Number of considered flights:14

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/WJA605/history/20171224/0245Z/CYYZ/CYQR
Direct: 2030 kms
Time:
03:29
03:24
03:19
03:32
04:00
03:24
03:37
03:34

Average times: 03:32

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/WJA156/history/20171223/1230Z/CYQR/CYYZ
Time:
03:09
02:52
03:06
02:48
03:04

Average times: 02:59
Average of times: 03:16
Average speed:2030kms/03:16= 621 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 13

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI2369/history/20171224/0340Z/VILH/VIDP
https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI9812/history/20171221/0250Z/VILH/VIDP
Direct:622kms.
Time:
01:19
01:30
01:21
01:34
01:30
01:38
01:57
01:19

Average times: 01:31

Opposite:
https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI2368/history/20171224/0140Z/VIDP/VILH
Time:
01:35
01:41
01:22
00:54

Average times: 01:23
Average of times:01:27
Average speed: 622kms/01:27=429kms.
Number of considered flights:12

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL166/history/20171224/0250Z/RJFF/PGUM
Direct: 2667 kms.
Time:
03:29
03:35
03:35
04:04
03:59
03:50
03:42
03:25
03:44
03:44

Average times: 03:42

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL165/history/20171223/2135Z/PGUM/RJFF
Time:
04:05
04:04
03:59
04:04
04:04
04:05
04:02
03:49
03:58

Average times: 04:01
Average of times: 03:51
Average speed: 690kmh.
Number of considered flights: 19

Total number of considered flights: 102

Average speed of B737 = 584 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 23, 2017, 11:14:22 PM
It appears that you are using the distances found at FlightAware to calculate your speeds.  If those distances are accurate, why not just use them directly instead?

Because the speed which is written in the page does not overlap with the value of Distance/time.

Okay, but why are you trusting their distance number and using it to calculate speed?  A speed which will eventually be used to calculate distance again?  Surely their distance numbers are wrong?  Isn't the whole point of this exercise to develop the correct distances?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on December 24, 2017, 02:10:35 AM
For Summer Solstice ground speed of subsolar point can be measured between Tazrouk, Algeria and El Argoub, Western Sahara.
It is 952.1 mph, which gives circumference of Tropic of Cancer to be 22850 miles.

For Equinox ground speed of subsolar point can be measured between Macapa, Brazil and Quito, Ecuador.
It is 1038 mph, which gives circumference of Equator to be 24912 miles.

For Winter Solstice ground speed of subsolar point can be measured between Rockhampton, Queensland and Minilya, Western Australia.
It is 952.5 mph, which gives circumference of Tropic of Capricorn to be 22860 miles.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 24, 2017, 03:52:28 AM
Ground speed of the sub-solar point, that's an elegant way to measure the Tropics!  Thanks for that
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: brinnbry022 on December 24, 2017, 09:50:42 AM
Brother hood of the dome

Whatever you do, Just keep doing what you are doing. Do not let anyone try to persuade you to stop, There are so many doubters on here and it begs the question, why? The RE'ers seem to outnumber the FE'ers on The flat earth society  Its laughable. If it were not for there ridicule, doubting, and constant argument and distraction perhaps the flat earth society might get somewhere! How much time has already been wasted arnswering there questions. Once they find out, and make the choice for definite within themselves that the earth is round, they should leave the forum, so that genuine people sitting on the fence, and real believers can conduct there experiments, ask questions without constant unproductive criticism, ridicule in every other comment and dissuasion. They wont like my stance, But now that they firmly believe the earth is round, why are they still in our society? if its because they do not have a globe forum, they should just be satisfied with there discovery and leave us 'crazy to them' folk alone, if they are still miserable people, then i recommend they join this forum http://www.grumpieroldmen.co.uk/forum/phpBB3/index.php instead and leave us alone so we can actually start getting somewhere...........Or is that what they are afraid of.

Brotherhood of the dome:

I really like what you are doing with flight paths and creating a map to reflect them, as already mentioned, It will be very interesting to see beta version, with an estimation. It does not really matter how inaccurate the first few models are, just to get a 'feel' for things will give us an idea of how things are heading.

It would be great if any photoshop masters, or even begginers could chip in and give a little of there time up for the sake of progress.

For example, Im not good at photoshop - but If I was to have a go, I would start out with an image of the flat earth, a nice and big one, Look at all the flights and just keep highlighting / copying the countries in question and moving them about and re-paste it using the flight paths averages. It may be a bit stone age style, but at this point theres no harm giving it a go - you have to start somewhere and trying to be perfect can somtimes get you nowhere, theres time for perfection down the road.

Im very keen to see any progress and cant wait to see the first map, even if it looks like something from a novice, anything is better then nothing.

keep it up :)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 24, 2017, 10:06:27 AM
It appears that you are using the distances found at FlightAware to calculate your speeds.  If those distances are accurate, why not just use them directly instead?

Because the speed which is written in the page does not overlap with the value of Distance/time.

Okay, but why are you trusting their distance number and using it to calculate speed?  A speed which will eventually be used to calculate distance again?  Surely their distance numbers are wrong?  Isn't the whole point of this exercise to develop the correct distances?

Surely, the whole point is correctance to the distances. here we should use logic. the speeds we actually calculated here are not the actual speeds but "relative" speeds. how is it relative? relative to each other. if all the planes were flying on the same reliable line we could easily calculate all their speeds. but there is no such line. we use different lines to reduce this error. some in asia, some in africa, and some in america. As a result, even if these distances are faulty, the value we calculate has relatively small error and the error is relatively true.

For example:

If an airplane flights between LA and NY in 2 hours, and the other one flights in 3 hourse, this means the first one is 50%  faster than the other. Whatever the distance is wrong, the speeds are true in proportion to each other. we will identify "reliable routes" at a certain stage of this work and we will correct all speeds depend on the flights in this route. it will be quite fun.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: brinnbry022 on December 24, 2017, 10:16:54 AM
I understand that, The faster route would likely be the reliable route. longer routes may take diversions, or have to make extra diversions / delay in the air while waiting for the runway to be clear ect.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 24, 2017, 10:20:20 AM
Brother hood of the dome

Whatever you do, Just keep doing what you are doing. Do not let anyone try to persuade you to stop, There are so many doubters on here and it begs the question, why? The RE'ers seem to outnumber the FE'ers on The flat earth society  Its laughable. If it were not for there ridicule, doubting, and constant argument and distraction perhaps the flat earth society might get somewhere! How much time has already been wasted arnswering there questions. Once they find out, and make the choice for definite within themselves that the earth is round, they should leave the forum, so that genuine people sitting on the fence, and real believers can conduct there experiments, ask questions without constant unproductive criticism, ridicule in every other comment and dissuasion. They wont like my stance, But now that they firmly believe the earth is round, why are they still in our society? if its because they do not have a globe forum, they should just be satisfied with there discovery and leave us 'crazy to them' folk alone, if they are still miserable people, then i recommend they join this forum http://www.grumpieroldmen.co.uk/forum/phpBB3/index.php instead and leave us alone so we can actually start getting somewhere...........Or is that what they are afraid of.

Brotherhood of the dome:

I really like what you are doing with flight paths and creating a map to reflect them, as already mentioned, It will be very interesting to see beta version, with an estimation. It does not really matter how inaccurate the first few models are, just to get a 'feel' for things will give us an idea of how things are heading.

It would be great if any photoshop masters, or even begginers could chip in and give a little of there time up for the sake of progress.

For example, Im not good at photoshop - but If I was to have a go, I would start out with an image of the flat earth, a nice and big one, Look at all the flights and just keep highlighting / copying the countries in question and moving them about and re-paste it using the flight paths averages. It may be a bit stone age style, but at this point theres no harm giving it a go - you have to start somewhere and trying to be perfect can somtimes get you nowhere, theres time for perfection down the road.

Im very keen to see any progress and cant wait to see the first map, even if it looks like something from a novice, anything is better then nothing.

keep it up :)

Thanks for your support. If you develop yourself in the matter of photoshop, I'll glad it.

Actually I made this working with a different way and about finished. But there have been some problems. At the beginning of the problem, the community did not try to own that map. for this reason, the issue of what the copyright of this map will be. this is still a question. I think this work is "open source" so there will not be any copyright issues.

On the other hand, we still have an photoshop problem. I had done my previous work on my own initiative and people generally had not been so interested in participation. as a result I got bored of this after a while due to problems.

This work is different. this may be the work I do most of it, but it may continue other than where I left it for being anonymous. On the other hand, I'm getting the interest of some terrorist organizations and I may be not find a time do this work again in the future. so I want to do it as soon as possible, at least I want to do as much as I can. if we can put a certain frame into it, then a PhotoShop expert may do continue after that point can take over and conclude the work.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 24, 2017, 10:56:12 AM
I understand that, The faster route would likely be the reliable route. longer routes may take diversions, or have to make extra diversions / delay in the air while waiting for the runway to be clear ect.

most crowded routes and has regular cadastral work cities are the most reliable ones. new york and london-based ones. Beijing and Moscow is also a center, but since the map of china is very wrong and I don't trust their cadastral works, they are not useful. the next step is to use New York, London, Paris and Istanbul are useful to correct the speeds by using flights between themselves.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 24, 2017, 10:48:50 PM
B 733

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B733

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI211/history/20171225/0535Z/EVRA/EDDT

Direct: 839 kms.
Time:
01:14
01:21
01:25
01:10
01:14
01:21
01:29
01:27

Average time:01:20

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI212/history/20171223/0755Z/EDDT/EVRA
Time:
01:44
01:46
01:57
02:00
01:37
01:56
01:38

Average time: 01:48
Average of times: 01:34
Average speed: 839kms/1:34= 534kmh.
Number of considered flights: 15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI621/history/20171225/0520Z/EETN/EHAM
Direct: 1474kms
Time:
02:19
02:37
02:05
02:17
02:14
02:21
02:24

Average time: 2:19

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI622/history/20171225/0920Z/EHAM/EETN
Time:
02:27
02:40
02:43
02:54
02:46
02:21
02:21

Average time: 2:36
Average of times: 2:27
Average speed: 1474kms/2:27= 598kmh.
Number of considered flights:14

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAY792/history/20171224/2205Z/MWCR/KJFK
Direct: 2484kms.
Time:
03:37
03:36
03:57
04:08
03:43
03:40
03:58
03:28
03:49
03:47

Average time:3:46

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAY793/history/20171224/1330Z/KJFK/MWCR
Time:
04:24
04:14
03:57
04:03
04:03
04:10
04:03
04:48
04:25

Average time: 04:14
Average of times: 04:00
Average speed: 2484kms/04:00=620kmh.
Number of considered flights: 19
(NY)

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SLM9919/history/20171225/0610Z/SOCA/SBBE
Direct: 815 kms.
Time:
01:43
01:26
01:24

Average time: 01:31

Opposite:  https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SLM9920/history/20171223/1000Z/SBBE/SOCA
Time:
01:18
01:13
01:25

Average time:1:18
Average of times: 1:24
Average speed: 815kms/1:24= 576kmh.
Number of considered flights: 6

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SJY334/history/20171225/0500Z/WARR/WILL
Direct: 876kms.
Time:
01:15
01:20
01:12
01:12
01:15
01:21
01:14
01:14
01:18
01:21

Average time: 1:16

Opposite:https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SJY335/history/20171225/0230Z/WILL/WARR
Time:
01:34
01:25
01:20
01:30
01:39
01:27
01:34
01:28
01:15
01:18
01:14

Average time:1:25
Average of times:1:21
Average speed:876kms/1:21= 649kmh.
Number of considered flights:21

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROT373/history/20171224/0545Z/LROP/EBBR
Direct: 1758kms.
Time:
02:53
03:09
03:05
03:13
02:47
02:35
03:08
03:00
02:58
Average time:2:58

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROT374/history/20171224/0920Z/EBBR/LROP
Time:
02:36
02:46
02:41
02:39
02:50
02:56
02:26
02:27
02:38

Average time: 2:39
Average of times:2:49
Average speed: 1758kms/2:49=623 kmh.
Number of considered flights: 18

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI629/history/20171225/0550Z/EVRA/LIMC
Direct: 1637kms.
Time:
02:26
02:10
02:19
02:48

Average time: 2:25

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/BTI630/history/20171224/1105Z/LIMC/EVRA
Time:
02:30
02:38
02:37
02:20

Average time: 2:31
Average of times: 2:28
Average speed: 1637kms/2:28= 661kmh.
Number of considered flights: 8

Total number of considered flights: 101

Average speed of B733 = (534x15+598x14+620x19+576x6+649x21+623x18+661x8)/101= 611 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 24, 2017, 11:37:07 PM
A 320

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A320

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/LAN633/history/20171226/0020Z/SPJC/SCEL
Direct: 2465kms.
Times:
03:16
03:20
03:15
03:21
03:29
03:25
03:18
03:21
03:18
03:28

Average time: 03:21

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SKU804/history/20171226/0150Z/SCEL/SPJC
Times:
03:51
03:50
04:01
03:41
03:45
04:01
04:03
03:43
03:44
04:00
04:06
03:47

Average time: 3:52
Average of times: 3:36
Average speed: 2465kms/3:36=682kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MEA217/history/20171224/0515Z/OLBA/EDDF
Direct: 2843kms.
Times:
04:29
04:23
04:24
04:12
04:26
04:36
04:27
04:31

Average time: 04:26

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MEA218/history/20171224/1100Z/EDDF/OLBA
Times:
03:59
03:55
03:43
03:56
03:55
03:46
03:45
03:48

Average time: 3:50
Average of times: 4:08
Average speed: 2843kms/4:08= 687kmh.
Number of considered flights: 16

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/IBS3743/history/20171225/0710Z/LFPG/LEMD
Direct: 1063kms.
Times:
01:44
01:42
01:41
01:38
01:46
01:34
01:33
01:36
01:45
01:44

Average time:1:40

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/IBS3740/history/20171225/1655Z/LEMD/LFPG
Times:
01:47
01:52
01:54
01:48
01:56
02:04
02:02
01:55
01:55
01:56

Average time: 01:54
Average of times: 1:47
Average speed: 1063kms/1:47= 593kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU264/history/20171225/0651Z/KSEA/KJFK
Direct: 3891kms.
Times:
04:36
04:41
04:41
05:37
04:48
05:01
04:43
05:01
04:51
04:55

Average time: 04:53

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/JBU263/history/20171225/2330Z/KJFK/KSEA
Times:
06:07
06:36
06:27
06:34
06:19
06:59
06:38
06:45
06:14
05:56

Average time: 6:27
Average of times: 5:40
Average speed: 3891kms/5:40=686kmh.
Number of considered flights:20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/IRA718/history/20171225/0755Z/LTBA/OIIE
Direct: 2043kms.
Times:
02:20
02:23
02:29
02:42
02:44

Average time: 02:31

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/IRA719/history/20171225/0220Z/OIIE/LTBA
Times:
03:03
03:35
03:22
03:26
03:03
02:54

Average time: 3:13
Average of times: 2:52
Average speed: 2043kms/2:52=710kmh.
Number of considered flights: 11

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP431/history/20171225/1645Z/LFPO/LPPT
Direct:  1439kms.
Times:
02:17
02:08
02:13
02:12
02:13
02:18

Average time: 02:13

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAP446/history/20171225/1940Z/LPPT/LFPO
Times:
02:01
02:21
02:24
02:24
02:25
02:28
02:13

Average time: 2:19
Average of times: 2:16
Average speed: 1439kms/2:16=633kmh.
Number of considered flights: 13

Number of considered flights: 102

Average speed of A320=(682x22+687x16+593x20+686x20+710x11+633x13)/102= 663kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 24, 2017, 11:42:36 PM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 12:18:52 AM
A 330

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A330

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA841/history/20171224/0625Z/LOWW/LEBL
Direct: 1370kms.
Times:
01:47
01:45
01:46
01:51
02:02

Average time:1:50

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA842/history/20171224/1025Z/LEBL/LOWW
Times:
01:55
02:01
02:04
02:02
02:20

Average time: 02:04
Average of times: 1:57
Average speed: 1370kms/1:57= 701kmh.
Number of considered flights: 10

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AZA611/history/20171225/0325Z/KJFK/LIRF
Direct: 6875kms.
Times:
08:15
08:34
08:23
08:07
08:10
08:34
08:20
08:19
08:15
07:58

Average time: 8:17

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AZA610/history/20171224/1345Z/LIRF/KJFK
Times:
10:07
10:08
09:40
10:05
09:42
10:08
09:43
11:01
10:37
10:42

Average time: 10:11
Average of times: 9:14
Average speed: 6875kms/ 9:14= 744kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA387/history/20171225/1905Z/OEJN/HECA
Direct:1219kms.
Times:
02:24
02:21
02:22
02:24
02:04
02:17
02:27
02:32
02:32

Average time: 2:22

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/MSR663/history/20171225/2120Z/HECA/OEJN
Times:
02:01
02:20
02:06
01:57
02:06
02:11
02:07
02:06
01:57
01:58
02:00

Average time: 2:04
Average of times: 2:13
Average speed: 1219kms/2:13= 548kmh.
Number of considered flights: 20

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA365/history/20171225/0250Z/OEJN/DTTA
Direct: 3258kms.
Times:
04:58
04:49
05:12
05:05
05:13
05:14
05:13
05:27

Average time: 05:08

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA366/history/20171225/0930Z/DTTA/OEJN
Times:
04:16
04:31
04:10
04:05
04:18
04:12
04:17
04:13

Average time: 4:15
Average of times: 4:42
Average speed: 3258kms/4:42= 693kmh.
Number of considered flights: 16

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AZA605/history/20171225/0145Z/KJFK/LIMC
Direct: 6421 kms.
Times:
08:09
07:50
07:55
07:38
07:47
07:57
08:06
07:47
07:45
07:22
07:09

Average time: 7:45

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AZA604/history/20171224/1200Z/LIMC/KJFK
Times:
09:23
09:22
09:01
09:00
09:23
09:00
08:50
09:37
09:13
09:30
09:49

Average time: 9:17
Average of times: 8:31
Average speed: 6421kms/9:17= 753kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ARG1300/history/20171225/0250Z/SAEZ/KJFK
Direct: 8545kms.
Times:
11:14
10:53
10:49
10:41
11:08
11:10
11:38
11:50
11:10
10:51
10:50

Average time:11:06

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ARG1301/history/20171224/2025Z/KJFK/SAEZ
Times:
11:00
10:23
10:32
10:37
10:43
10:44
10:45
10:35
11:29
11:07
11:13

Average time: 10:49
Average of times: 10:58
Average speed: 8545kms/10:58= 779kmh.
Number of considered flights: 22

Total number of considered flights: 110

Average speed of A330 = (700x10+744x20+548x20+693x16+753x22+779x22)110=  706kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 12:59:03 AM
A 343

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A343

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ108/history/20171225/0804Z/YSSY/NZAA
Direct: 2161kms
Times:
02:34
03:26
02:58
03:05
03:21
03:03
02:59
03:00

Average time: 3:03

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ101/history/20171224/1800Z/NZAA/YSSY
Times:
03:13
03:42
03:37
03:19
03:15
03:34
03:25
03:41
03:54

Average time: 3:31
Average of times: 3:17
Average speed: 2161kms/3:17= 658kmh
Number of considered flight: 17

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ARG1132/history/20171225/0255Z/SAEZ/LEMD
Direct: 10099kms.
Times:
11:44
12:07
11:51
12:14
12:12
11:44
12:14
11:56
12:03

Average time:12:00

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ARG1133/history/20171225/1810Z/LEMD/SAEZ
Times:
13:02
12:56
12:59
13:44
12:53
12:58
12:59
13:23
12:59
13:01
12:07

Average time: 13:00
Average of times: 12:30
Average speed: 10099kms/12:30= 808kmh.
Number of considered flight: 20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA190/history/20171225/0740Z/FAOR/FIMP
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAU854/history/20171221/2255Z/FAOR/FIMP
Direct: 3071kms
Times:
03:59
04:00
03:55
03:56
03:40
03:53
03:54
03:55

Average time: 03:54

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SAA191/history/20171225/1240Z/FIMP/FAOR
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/MAU853/history/20171222/1630Z/FIMP/FAOR
Times:
04:17
04:10
04:24
04:25
04:32
04:30
04:26
04:05
04:21

Average time: 4:21
Average of times: 4:07
Average speed: 3071kms/4:07= 744kmh
Number of considered flight: 17

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR429/history/20171225/0150Z/SKBO/LFPG
Direct: 8654kms
Times:
10:54
11:20
10:44
09:56
10:48
09:58
11:10
11:11
10:57
10:46
10:13

Average time: 10:43

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR422/history/20171224/1215Z/LFPG/SKBO
Times:
10:50
10:56
10:54
11:12
10:48
11:34
11:15
11:18
10:45
10:50
11:03

Average time: 11:02
Average of times: 10:52
Average speed: 8654kms/ 10:52= 795kmh
Number of considered flight:22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SWR161/history/20171225/0205Z/RJAA/LSZH
Direct: 9606kms
Times:
12:30
12:48
12:34
12:50
12:10
12:28
12:37
12:30
12:38
12:44
12:43

Average time: 12:35

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/SWR160/history/20171224/1200Z/LSZH/RJAA
Times:
11:50
11:52
11:07
11:56
11:45
12:00
11:33
11:49
11:41
11:29
11:28

Average time: 11:40
Average of times: 12:08
Average speed: 9606kms/12:08= 791kmh
Number of considered flight: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/EDW51/history/20171225/0130Z/VTSP/LSZH
Direct: 9338kms
Times:
12:30
11:50
11:56
12:33
13:00
13:43

Average time: 12:35

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/EDW50/history/20171220/1250Z/LSZH/VTSP
Times:
11:01
11:10
11:05
11:03
11:12
11:06

Average time: 11:06
Average of times: 11:50
Average speed: 9338kms/11:50= 788kmh
Number of considered flight: 12

Total number of considered flights: 110

Average speed of A343 (4 motors) = (658x17+808x20+744x17+795x22+791x22+788x12)/110= 767 kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 01:57:44 AM
A 359

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A359

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR94/history/20171225/0720Z/LSZH/OTHH
Direct: 4500kms
Times:
05:41
05:40
05:20
05:27
05:31
05:39
05:47
05:34
05:32
06:17

Average time: 05:38

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR93/history/20171223/2300Z/OTHH/LSZH
times:
06:33
06:49
06:53
06:54
06:40
06:30
06:27
06:22
06:31
06:27

Average time: 06:36
Average of times: 06:07
Average speed: 4500kms/06:07= 734kmh
Number of considered flights:20

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAL31/history/20171225/0840Z/CYVR/RCTP
Direct: 9603kms
Times:
13:01
12:38
12:46
13:30
13:30
13:13
13:33
12:57
13:19
13:07
12:29
12:33

Average time: 13:03

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAL32/history/20171224/1555Z/RCTP/CYVR
times:
10:15
10:38
10:30
10:18
09:37
09:55
10:05
09:41
09:35
09:54
10:05
10:03

Average time: 10:03
Average of times: 11:33
Average speed: 9603kms/11:33= 831 kmh
Number of considered flights: 24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR6/history/20171225/0800Z/EGLL/OTHH
Direct: 5247kms
Times:
06:33
06:26
06:14
06:25
06:27
06:32
06:21

Average time: 06:25

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR5/history/20171225/1425Z/OTHH/EGLL
times:
07:33
07:26
07:44
07:44
07:19
07:11
07:14
07:26
07:10
07:25

Average time: 07:25
Average of times: 06:55
Average speed: 5247kms/06:55= 758kmh
Number of considered flights: 17

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CPA157/history/20171225/0445Z/VHHH/YBBN
Direct: 6956kms
Times:
08:27
08:13
08:27
08:13
08:31
08:35
08:37
08:23
08:16
07:58
08:24
08:11

Average time: 08:21

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CPA156/history/20171223/1728Z/YBBN/VHHH
times:
08:21
08:31
08:23
08:12
08:12
08:01
08:15
08:10
08:33
07:58
08:32
08:37

Average time: 08:18
Average of times: 08:20
Average speed: 6956kms/08:20= 835kmh
Number of considered flights: 24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA31/history/20171224/1730Z/KSFO/WSSS
Direct: 13597kms
Times:
17:32
17:07
17:44
17:00
17:02
16:52
16:45
16:48
17:13
17:53
17:05
17:24

Average time: 17:12

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SIA32/history/20171224/0120Z/WSSS/KSFO
times:

Average time: 14:52
14:39
14:21
14:29
14:47
14:02
14:11
14:02
13:50
14:12
14:25
14:32
14:19

Average of times: 15:46
Average speed: 13597kms/ 15:46= 862kmh
Number of considered flights: 25

Total number of considered flights: 110

Average speed of A 359= (734x20+831x24+758x17+835x24+862x25)/110=810 kmh.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 03:20:22 AM
B 738

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B738

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY2666/history/20171225/0950Z/LTBA/LTCV
Direct: 1235kms
Times:
02:10
02:09
01:55
02:01
02:03
01:58
01:59
02:06
02:15
02:21
02:19
02:15

Average time: 2:07

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY2667/history/20171224/1255Z/LTCV/LTBA
Times:
02:12
03:20
02:52
02:38
02:46
02:30
02:25
03:01
02:46
02:20
02:21
02:23

Average time:2:37
Average of times: 2:22
Average speed: 1235kms/2:22=519kmh
Number of considered flights:24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA556/history/20171225/1041Z/YSSY/YBBN
Direct: 754kms
Times:
01:14
01:22
01:32
01:17
01:25
01:16
01:14
01:19
01:28
01:22
01:26
01:17

Average time:1:21

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA557/history/20171225/0935Z/YBBN/YSSY
Times:
01:32
01:26
01:17
01:33
01:36
01:33
01:26
02:00
01:34
01:30
01:33

Average time: 1:32
Average of times: 1:26
Average speed: 754kms/1:26=521kmh
Number of considered flights:23

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY283/history/20171225/1020Z/LTBA/UMMS
Direct: 1437kms
Times:
03:14
02:34
02:24
02:23
02:04
02:14
02:23
02:25
02:17

Average time: 2:26

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY284/history/20171225/1345Z/UMMS/LTBA
Times:
02:33
02:34
02:41
02:33
02:40
02:57
03:43
02:43
02:27

Average time: 2:45
Average of times: 2:36
Average speed: 1437kms/2:36=552kmh
Number of considered flights:18

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/AXB141/history/20171225/0820Z/VIDP/OMDB
Direct: 2185kms.
Times:
03:30
03:26
03:25
03:28
03:32
03:52
03:26
03:40
03:25
03:34
03:28
03:45

Average time: 3:32

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/JAI547/history/20171225/1900Z/OMDB/VIDP
Times:
03:21
03:25
03:05
03:10
03:12
03:09
03:03
03:09
03:18
03:15
03:20
02:58
02:58

Average time: 3:11
Average of times: 3:21
Average speed: 2185kms/3:21= 650kmh.
Number of considered flights:25

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SXS140/history/20171225/1005Z/LTAI/EDDF
Direct:2302kms
Times:
03:18
03:18
03:31
03:27
03:28
03:24

Average time: 3:24

Opposite:
https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SXS143/history/20171224/1740Z/EDDF/LTAI
https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SXS141/history/20171225/1455Z/EDDF/LTAI
Times:
03:22
03:07
03:24
03:08
03:35

Average time: 3:19
Average of times: 3:21
Average speed: 2302kms/3:21=685kmh
Number of considered flights:11

Considered total number of flights: 101

Average speed of B738=(519x24+521x23+552x18+650x25+685x11)/110=576kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 03:29:35 AM
B 734

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B734

Direct: 1267kms
Times:
02:04
02:10
02:07
02:06
02:21
02:01
02:05
02:16
02:26

Average time: 02:10

Times:
02:29
02:34
02:34
02:32
02:34
02:37
02:34
02:34
02:37

Average time: 2:33
Average of times: 2:22
Average speed: 1267kms/ 2:22=534kmh
Number of considered flights: 18

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAW6314/history/20171225/0830Z/FALE/FACT
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAW6306/history/20171225/1600Z/FALE/FACT
Direct: 1278kms
Times:
02:10
02:04
02:06
01:58
02:14
02:06
02:02
02:05
02:32

Average time: 02:08

Opposite:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAW6309/history/20171225/1120Z/FACT/FALE
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAW6313/history/20171224/1530Z/FACT/FALE
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CAW6301/history/20171225/0430Z/FACT/FALE
Times:
01:46
01:59
01:55
01:54
01:58
02:04

Average time: 1:56
Average of times: 2:02
Average speed: 1278kms/2:02=627kmh
Number of considered flights:15

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/JTA49/history/20171225/1000Z/RJGG/ROAH
Direct: 1304kms
Times:
02:44
02:24
02:24
02:21
02:42
02:28
02:27
02:29
02:32
02:38
02:17

Average time:2:29

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/JTA46/history/20171225/1015Z/ROAH/RJGG
Times:
02:08
02:07
01:59
02:02
01:58
01:55
01:58
01:59
01:55
01:59
02:09

Average time: 02:00
Average of times: 02:15
Average speed: 1304kms/02:15= 579kmh
Number of considered flights:22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/JTA16/history/20171225/0920Z/ROAH/RJOB
Direct: 1124kms
Times:
01:43
01:49
01:44
01:52
01:46
01:47
01:42
01:45
01:46
01:45
01:54

Average time: 1:46

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/JTA11/history/20171224/2330Z/RJOB/ROAH
Times:
02:04
02:07
02:04
02:08
01:59
02:15
02:10
02:12
02:06
02:09
02:08
01:57

Average time: 2:06
Average of times: 1:56
Average speed: 1124kms/1:56=578kmh
Number of considered flights:23

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UTA368/history/20171225/1035Z/URRR/UUWW
Direct:  945kms
Times:
01:43
01:33
01:38
01:22
01:30

Average time:1:33

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UTA367/history/20171225/0745Z/UUWW/URRR
Times:
01:50
01:40
01:40
01:40

Average time:1:42
Average of times: 1:37
Average speed: 945kms/1:37=579kmh
Number of considered flights:9

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CSN3396/history/20171225/1105Z/ZGGG/ZHCC
Direct: 1239kms
Times:
02:25
02:16
02:25
02:29
02:20
02:13

Average time:2:21

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CSN3959/history/20171225/0835Z/ZHCC/ZGGG
Times:
02:12
02:15
02:18
02:23
02:21
02:22
02:14

Average time:2:17
Average of times: 2:19
Average speed: 1239kms/2:19=533kms
Number of considered flights: 13

Total number of considered flights: 100

Average speed of B734 =(534x18+627x15+579x22+578x23+579x9+533x13)/100=  572kmh (Contains 1 China and 1 Russia)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 03:58:57 AM
B 739

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B739

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/KLM1575/history/20171225/1110Z/EHAM/LGAV
Direct: 2184kms
Time:
02:58
03:20
03:13
02:58
03:08
02:57
02:59
02:59

Average time: 03:09

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/KLM1576/history/20171225/1505Z/LGAV/EHAM
Time:
03:29
03:31
03:57
03:22
03:27
03:28
03:20
03:42
03:22
03:20

Average time: 3:29
Average of times: 3:16
Average speed: 2184kms/3:16= 666kmh
Number of considered flights: 18

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL2113/history/20171225/1045Z/KPHL/KIAH
Direct: 2132kms
Time:
04:04
03:41
04:15
03:41
04:26

Average time: 04:01

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1753/history/20171226/0201Z/KIAH/KPHL
Time:
02:53
02:48
02:52
03:03
02:47

Average time: 2:52
Average of times: 3:27
Average speed: 2132kms/3:27=618kmh
Number of considered flights:10

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2859/history/20171225/0715Z/KSEA/KDTW
Direct:  3097kms
Time: 04:01
04:13
03:48
03:57
03:48
03:26
03:49
04:02
04:00
03:58
04:08
03:53

Average time: 3:55

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL1823/history/20171226/0055Z/KDTW/KSEA
Time:
05:13
05:16
05:00
05:00
05:10
05:24
05:19
05:06
04:45
04:35
05:00

Average time:05:04
Average of times: 04:29
Average speed: 3097kms/04:29=689kmh
Number of considered flights: 23

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/MXD633/history/20171225/0445Z/RCTP/WMKK
Direct: 3250kms
Time:
04:55
05:00
04:59
04:45
04:41
04:49
05:11
05:19
04:50
04:56
04:42

Average time: 04:55

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/MXD632/history/20171224/2315Z/WMKK/RCTP
Time:
04:48
04:58
04:41
04:47
04:43
04:32
04:55
04:35
04:59
05:00
05:03
04:28

Average time: 4:47
Average of times: 4:51
Average speed: 3250kms/ 4:51= 669kmh.
Number of considered flights: 23

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1654/history/20171225/0759Z/KLAX/MMUN
Direct: 3411 kms
Time:
04:33
04:37
04:35
04:29
04:22
04:31
05:05

Average time: 4:36

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1277/history/20171225/2305Z/MMUN/KLAX
Time:
05:08
05:01
05:08
04:56
05:14
05:15
05:12
05:13
05:14

Average time: 5:09
Average of times: 4:52
Average speed: 3411kms/4:52=700kmh
Number of considered flights:16

Direct: 3706kms
Time:
04:20
04:31
04:38

Average time: 4:29

Time:
05:43
05:44
05:49
05:55
05:57
05:33
05:49
05:45
05:33
05:38

Average time: 5:44
Average of times: 5:07
Average speed: 3706kms/5:07=724kmh
Number of considered flights: 13

Total number of considered flights: 103

Average speed of B739 = (666x18+618x10+689x23+669x23+700x16+724x13)/103= 680kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 05:12:22 AM
B 752

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B752

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL1596/history/20171225/1200Z/KJFK/MDST

(With opposite)

Direct: 2384kms

Times:
03:28
03:47
03:51
03:27
04:20
04:02
03:43
03:53
03:53
04:07
03:46
03:30
04:28
03:55
04:54
03:33
04:16
03:42
04:40
04:03
Average of times: 03:57
Average speed: 2384kms/03:57= 601kmh
Number of considered flights:20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOS8005/history/20171225/0945Z/LFPO/KJFK
Direct: 5839kms
Times:
09:08
08:24
08:21
08:25
08:39
08:21
08:47
09:14

Average time: 8:39

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/BOS8006/history/20171224/0030Z/KJFK/LFPO
Times:
07:00
07:19
07:39
07:42
06:58

Average time: 7:19
Average of times: 7:59
Average speed: 5839kms/7:59=730kmh
Number of considered flights: 13

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL2230/history/20171225/1115Z/KJFK/KMIA
Direct: 1759kms
Times:
03:02
02:53
02:58
03:10
02:57
02:58
02:54
03:19
03:28
02:47

Average time:3:02

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL156/history/20171225/0025Z/KMIA/KJFK
Times:
02:51
02:53
02:50
02:53
02:40
02:51
02:43
02:41
02:44
02:26

Average time:2:45
Average of times: 2:53
Average speed: 1759kms/2:53=607kms
Number of considered flights:20

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL433/history/20171225/1105Z/KBOS/KSFO
Direct:4347kms
Times:
06:56
06:59
06:53
06:40
07:11
06:42
06:49
06:45
06:28
06:12
06:09

Average time:6:42

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL1413/history/20171226/0525Z/KSFO/KBOS
Times:
05:11
05:25
05:24
05:43
05:16
05:27
05:15
05:36
05:27
05:09
05:22

Average time: 5:23
Average of times: 6:02
Average speed: 4347kms/6:02=719kmh
Number of considered flights: 22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL231/history/20171225/0945Z/LFPG/KRDU
Direct: 6513kms
Times:
08:51
09:44
09:19
09:21
09:24
09:05
09:22
09:27
10:10
10:08
09:55
09:49

Average time:9:32

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL230/history/20171224/2252Z/KRDU/LFPG
Times:
07:45
07:50
07:57
08:01
07:49
07:57
07:56
07:57
08:01
07:35
07:34
07:19

Average time: 7:48
Average of times: 8:40
Average speed: 6513kms/8:40=751kmh
Number of considered flights:24

Direct: 5908kms
Times:
09:11
08:51
08:31
08:47
08:19
08:34

Average time: 8:42

Times:
07:02
07:07
07:04
07:15
07:32
07:09

Average time: 7:11
Average of times: 7:56
Average speed:5908kms/7:56=743kmh
Number of considered flights: 12

Total number of considered flights: 111

Average speed of B 752 = (601x20+730x13+607x20+719x22+751x24+743x12)/111= 688 kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 05:36:51 AM
B 763

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B763

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL11/history/20171225/1255Z/EGLL/KMSP
Direct: 6451kms
Times:
08:49
08:51
08:56
08:34
09:05
08:56
08:42
09:19
09:07
08:53
08:57
08:48
08:57

Average time: 08:54

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL10/history/20171225/0404Z/KMSP/EGLL
Times:
07:48
07:50
07:54
07:47
07:59
08:01
08:21
08:18
07:56
07:57
08:05
08:13
07:42

Average time: 7:59
Average of times: 8:27
Average speed: 6451kms/8:27= 763kmh
Number of considered flights: 26

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROU1620/history/20171225/1140Z/CYYZ/KFLL
Direct: 1961 kms
Times:
03:21
02:57
02:56
03:15
03:00
02:57
03:08
03:17
02:52
03:12
03:31
02:53

Average time: 3:06

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROU1623/history/20171225/1640Z/KFLL/CYYZ
Times:
02:51
03:06
03:21
03:08
02:57
02:57
03:43
02:46
03:12
02:59
03:06
03:09
03:03

Average time: 3:06
Average of times: 3:06
Average speed: 1961kms/3:06= 632 kmh
Number of considered flights: 25

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/LPE2476/history/20171225/0650Z/SPJC/KLAX
Direct: 6728kms
Times:
08:20
08:17
08:09
08:02
08:14
07:50
08:12
08:06
08:08
08:10
08:16

Average time: 8:09

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/LPE2477/history/20171224/2100Z/KLAX/SPJC
Times:
10:11
10:02
10:21
10:29
10:33
10:21
10:35
10:24
10:37
10:38
10:36
10:00

Average time: 10:23
Average of times: 9:16
Average speed: 6728kms/9:16=725kmh
Number of considered flights: 23

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL408/history/20171225/0845Z/LSZH/KJFK
Direct: 6317kms
Times:
09:27
09:05
08:31
08:44
09:02
08:53
09:17
08:29
09:24
08:59
09:15
09:37

Average time: 9:03

Opposite:  https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL407/history/20171225/2310Z/KJFK/LSZH
Times:
07:12
07:06
07:34
07:24
07:07
07:52
07:17
07:45
06:53
07:09
07:45
06:56

Average time:7:20
Average of times: 8:11
Average speed: 6317kms/8:11= 771 kms
Number of considered flights:24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROU1830/history/20171225/0930Z/PHNL/CYVR
Direct: 4358kmh
Times:
05:25
05:06
05:32
05:08
05:30
05:14
05:31
05:20
05:35
05:25
05:42

Average time: 5:24

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/ROU1831/history/20171226/0145Z/CYVR/PHNL
Times:
06:18
06:49
06:54
06:18
06:40
06:06
06:29
06:17
05:57
05:47
06:14

Average time: 6:20
Average of times: 5:52
Average speed:4358kms/5:52= 742kmh
Number of considered flights: 22

Total number of considered flights: 120

Average speed of B 763 = (763x26+632x25+725x23+771x24+742x22)/120= 726 kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2017, 08:01:35 AM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 11:39:47 AM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rabinoz on December 25, 2017, 04:58:02 PM
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
But aircraft, once at altitude fly at much the same speed whether on a short flight of say 1 hour or a long flight of 12 hours.

So the time taken in taxiing, taking off and gaining altitude is much more significant in short flights that long slights.

Therefore you must make allowance for this or you will get incorrect distances.

Also some long flight do not take "direct routes" fo safety or political reasons, such as Air China Flight 947 from New Delhi to Beijing:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ose17loe5xil3p7/FlightAware%20Air%20China%20947.png?dl=1)
As noted on the report, the direct distance is 3815 km but the plane actually flies 5099 km to satisfy safety regulations.

So if your calculations gave about 5100 km from New Delhi to Beijing you would be quite wrong.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 25, 2017, 05:04:28 PM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 09:49:37 PM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 10:18:19 PM
B 773

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B773

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CES583/history/20171226/0520Z/ZSPD/KLAX

Direct: 10429kms
Times:
11:42
11:42
11:11
10:59
11:14
11:25
11:03
10:50
10:54
11:14
11:28
11:18

Average time: 11:15

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CES586/history/20171226/1930Z/KLAX/ZSPD
Times:
13:23
13:52
15:30
14:28
14:11
15:27
14:16
14:22
14:20
14:07
13:37
13:31

Average time: 14:15
Average of times: 12:45
Average speed:10429kms/ 12:45= 818kmh
Number of considered flights: 24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/MSR995/history/20171222/2350Z/HECA/CYYZ
Direct: 9240kms
Times:
12:37
12:21
12:34
12:14
12:31
12:14
12:13

Average time:12:23

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/MSR996/history/20171225/1745Z/CYYZ/HECA
Times:
10:25
11:21
10:23
10:42
11:10
10:06
10:34

Average time: 10:40
Average of times: 11:31
Average speed: 9240kms/11:31=801kmh
Number of considered flights:14

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/THA960/history/20171224/1825Z/VTBS/ESSA
Direct:

Times:
Average time:

Opposite:
Times:
Average time:
Average of times:
Average speed:
Number of considered flights:

Direct: 8306kms
Times:
11:53
11:56
11:32
11:20
11:03
11:06
10:55
11:10
11:03
11:25
10:51
11:04

Average time:11:16

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/THA961/history/20171226/1230Z/ESSA/VTBS
Times:
09:20
09:22
09:42
09:50
09:54
10:09
10:09
10:23
10:01
10:09
10:08
10:06

Average time: 09:56
Average of times: 10:36
Average speed: 8306kms/10:36=783kmh
Number of considered flights:24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA722/history/20171223/0615Z/OEJN/OPRN
Direct: 3580kms
Times:
04:59
04:50
04:53
04:40
04:46

Average time:4:49

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/SVA727/history/20171226/0845Z/OPRN/OEJN
Times:
05:15
05:01
05:16
05:28
05:20

Average time: 5:16
Average of times:5:02
Average speed: 3580kms/5:02=709kmh
Number of considered flights:10

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAM8090/history/20171226/0130Z/SBGR/KMIA
Direct: 6582kms
Times:
07:39
07:52
07:49
07:57
07:55
08:15
08:01
08:03
07:59
07:55
08:07

Average time: 7:57

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAM8091/history/20171226/2325Z/KMIA/SBGR
Times:
08:51
08:17
08:14
08:31
08:20
09:27
08:36
08:43
08:06
08:43
08:31

Average time: 8:34
Average of times: 8:15
Average speed: 6582kms/8:15=796kmh
Number of considered flights:22

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAM8071/history/20171225/1845Z/EDDF/SBGR
Direct: 9806kms
Times:
12:07
11:55
11:38
12:08
11:43
12:05
11:30
11:55
11:47
11:50
12:11
11:39

Average time:11:52

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/TAM8070/history/20171226/0010Z/SBGR/EDDF
Times:
11:15
11:29
11:51
11:59
11:50
11:39
11:47
11:49
11:31
11:47
11:38
11:29

Average time: 11:40
Average of times: 11:46
Average speed:9806kms/11:46=833kmh
Number of considered flights:24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAL721/history/20171225/2150Z/EGLL/RPLL
Direct: 10779kms
Times:
12:53
13:15
13:24
13:26
13:18
13:35
13:26
13:26
13:22
13:03
13:02
13:17

Average time: 13:17

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/PAL720/history/20171225/0500Z/RPLL/EGLL
Times:
14:55
14:41
14:46
14:53
14:40
14:27
13:59
14:23
14:46
14:41
14:52
14:45

Average time: 14:39
Average of times: 13:58
Average speed:10779kms/13:58=772kmh
Number of considered flights:24

Total number of considered flights: 142

Average speed of B773 = (818x24+801x14+783x24+709x10+796x22+833x24+772x24)/142= 794kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 10:47:48 PM
B 77L

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/B77L

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETD161/history/20171226/0520Z/OMAA/KDFW
Direct: 12984kms
Times:
16:22
16:17
16:00
16:41
16:25
16:21
17:05
16:38
16:32
16:26
16:07
16:14

Average time: 16:25

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETD160/history/20171226/0105Z/KDFW/OMAA
Times:
13:59
14:05
14:00
14:18
14:29
14:28
15:35
14:45
14:33
14:48
14:21
14:51

Average times:14:31
Average of times:15:28
Average speed:12984kms/15:28=839 kmh
Number of considered flights:24

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETH847/history/20171226/0530Z/HAAB/FACT
Direct: 5236kms
Times:
06:24
06:26
06:29
06:24
06:21
06:38
06:36
06:27
06:37
06:30
06:22

Average time: 6:28

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ETH846/history/20171225/1255Z/FACT/HAAB
Times:
06:18
06:32
06:28
06:35
06:32
06:34
06:24
06:22
06:27
06:32
06:33

Average times: 6:28
Average of times: 6:28
Average speed:5236kms/6:28=808kmh
Number of considered flights:22

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA46/history/20171226/0135Z/CYYZ/VABB
Direct: 12508kms
Times:
15:16
14:21
15:11
15:11
15:26
14:44
16:14

Average time: 15:11

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA47/history/20171225/1815Z/VABB/CYYZ
Times:
16:34
16:29
16:06
15:39
15:50
15:20
16:09

Average times: 16:01
Average of times: 15:36
Average speed: 12508kms/15:36=801kmh
Number of considered flights: 14

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR921/history/20171226/0215Z/NZAA/OTHH
Direct: 14551kms
Times:
18:02
17:42
17:44
17:34
17:25
17:16
17:13
17:24
17:13
17:36
17:30
17:48

Average time: 17:32

Opposite: https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/QTR920/history/20171225/2325Z/OTHH/NZAA
Times:
16:09
16:02
16:11
16:00
16:44
16:43
16:50
17:11
16:45
16:18
16:18
16:19

Average times: 16:27
Average of times: 16:59
Average speed: 14551kms/16:59= 856kmh
Number of considered flights:24

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL40/history/20171226/0134Z/YSSY/KLAX
Direct: 12075kms
Times:
13:16
13:49
14:08
14:08
13:32
13:32
13:40
13:35
13:41
13:31
13:31
13:26

Average time: 13:39

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL41/history/20171227/0600Z/KLAX/YSSY
Times:
14:53
14:39
14:30
14:16
14:26
14:33
14:38
14:47
15:00
14:54
14:35
14:44

Average times: 14:39
Average of times: 14:09
Average speed: 12075kms/14:09=853kmh
Number of considered flights:24

Total considered number of flights: 108

Average speed of B77L = (839x24+808x22+801x14+856x24+853x24)/108= 835kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 25, 2017, 11:03:40 PM
Stage 1 preliminary study is done.

Now the time is to correct suspicious speeds by comparing flights. as a preliminary work I put a question mark and colored to red to those who are suspicious in my mind. you can check those you are on doubts.

Control method:

1- Open the suspicious flight chart by clicking the name of aircraft (not to speed)
2- Choose one of intensive routes.
3- Calculate the average flight time of the aircraft you suspect.( no need to opposite side for comparing)
4- Calculate the average flight time of other aircrafts.
5- Compare and put forward the differences.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 26, 2017, 07:05:44 AM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 26, 2017, 12:48:55 PM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.

I did not called you as a liar but you are repeating the  lies of aircraft companies.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 26, 2017, 12:54:06 PM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.

I did not called you as a liar but you are repeating the  lies of aircraft companies.
which you haven't proven.

I have tracked many of these aircraft on RADAR when I was in the Air Force.  Their cruising speeds are correct.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 27, 2017, 02:47:45 AM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.

I did not called you as a liar but you are repeating the  lies of aircraft companies.
which you haven't proven.

I have tracked many of these aircraft on RADAR when I was in the Air Force.  Their cruising speeds are correct.

If I momentarily agree the cruise speeds of aircrafts are true, but they mean nothing if they don't act to flight times. waste of times of landing, take off and overcrowding in airports can be considered, but when we consider the distances more than 500 kms, these waste of times  does not affect much the end result and the average time and speed is reliable.

On the other hand, we have not enough time to consider all of these effects. I have not enough time to consider all the effects but if a volunteer make all of these calculations, I'll glad for it. Do you see any volunteer is working on this issue hard? I don't see anyone willing to work hard in this issue, do you see?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Bullwinkle on December 27, 2017, 04:31:02 AM
I think we are trying to verify whether or not Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 27, 2017, 05:40:48 AM
talk here if you have any idea about corrections to the speeds which the marked as red and question. Its now or never.

After a few waiting I'll continue with correctances by may way, declare them and start next stages.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 27, 2017, 05:48:31 AM
I found a source claims aircraft "cruise" speeds as follow:

Cruise speeds by mach:

Boeing 747-400 0.86
Boeing 787 0.85
Boeing 777 0.84
Boeing 767 0.80
Boeing 757 0.80
Boeing 737 -800 0.78
Boeing 737 - 300/400/500 0.74

Airbus 380 0.85
Airbus 340 -300/600 0.82
Airbus 330 0.82
Airbus 320 0.78
Airbus 310 0.78

We'll use these parameters as a control data and correct the suspicious ones.

Was it hard? No it was not. But there is a lot of worklesses here are talking more than their researches.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 27, 2017, 06:26:49 AM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.

I did not called you as a liar but you are repeating the  lies of aircraft companies.
which you haven't proven.

I have tracked many of these aircraft on RADAR when I was in the Air Force.  Their cruising speeds are correct.

If I momentarily agree the cruise speeds of aircrafts are true, but they mean nothing if they don't act to flight times. waste of times of landing, take off and overcrowding in airports can be considered, but when we consider the distances more than 500 kms, these waste of times  does not affect much the end result and the average time and speed is reliable.
They still affect it, but they affect it less.

On the other hand, we have not enough time to consider all of these effects. I have not enough time to consider all the effects but if a volunteer make all of these calculations, I'll glad for it. Do you see any volunteer is working on this issue hard? I don't see anyone willing to work hard in this issue, do you see?
Not necessary.  You're using the reported distance and flight times to get the average speed.  That means you're accepting the distance so why not just use that and avoid the calculations?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 27, 2017, 10:07:22 PM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.

I did not called you as a liar but you are repeating the  lies of aircraft companies.
which you haven't proven.

I have tracked many of these aircraft on RADAR when I was in the Air Force.  Their cruising speeds are correct.

If I momentarily agree the cruise speeds of aircrafts are true, but they mean nothing if they don't act to flight times. waste of times of landing, take off and overcrowding in airports can be considered, but when we consider the distances more than 500 kms, these waste of times  does not affect much the end result and the average time and speed is reliable.
They still affect it, but they affect it less.

On the other hand, we have not enough time to consider all of these effects. I have not enough time to consider all the effects but if a volunteer make all of these calculations, I'll glad for it. Do you see any volunteer is working on this issue hard? I don't see anyone willing to work hard in this issue, do you see?
Not necessary.  You're using the reported distance and flight times to get the average speed.  That means you're accepting the distance so why not just use that and avoid the calculations?

either you do not understand or you do not want to understand.

declared speeds are invalid. in this we agree. But declared flight times can't be wrong, at least they can't be much wrong. Because passangers generally don't pay attention to their flight speeds but almost all of them know the flight time. The people can be lied about speed. but it can not be lied about time, because everybody has a clock on his sleeve or on his mobile.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Sam Hill on December 27, 2017, 10:37:11 PM
I think we all agree the times are correct, because as you say, there are too many passengers traveling with time on their mind for the airlines to fake the times.  If thousands of people were getting to their destination hours early or late, we surely would have heard about it.  The issue is the distances you are using in your speed calculations.  You think some of the distances are wrong, perhaps all the distances; you hope to derive correct distances by using the reported times and your calculated speeds.  The problem we see, and want you to explain, is this: how can you calculate accurate speeds by using inaccurate distances in the numerator of your fraction?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 27, 2017, 11:29:02 PM
I think we all agree the times are correct, because as you say, there are too many passengers traveling with time on their mind for the airlines to fake the times.  If thousands of people were getting to their destination hours early or late, we surely would have heard about it.  The issue is the distances you are using in your speed calculations.  You think some of the distances are wrong, perhaps all the distances; you hope to derive correct distances by using the reported times and your calculated speeds.  The problem we see, and want you to explain, is this: how can you calculate accurate speeds by using inaccurate distances in the numerator of your fraction?

I don'T want to no more discuss about the speeds.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 27, 2017, 11:30:19 PM

Code   Aircraft Type / Average speed (km/h) /Color (red means insecure, question mark means suspicious)
A306   Airbus A300F4-600 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A306) 722 kms (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73165.msg2000846#msg2000846) Corrected as 722kmh.
A318   Airbus A318 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A318) 557 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73165.msg1999522#msg1999522)  corrected as 627 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73663.msg2002717#msg2002717)
A319   Airbus A319 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A319) 652 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73165.msg2001289#msg2001289)corrected as 627 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73663.msg2002717#msg2002717)
A320   Airbus A320 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A320) 663 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73165.msg2001722#msg2001722)corrected as 627 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73663.msg2002717#msg2002717)
A321   Airbus A321 (https://uk.flightaware.com/live/aircrafttype/A321) 599 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73165.msg1998960#msg1998960)  corrected as 627 kmh (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73663.msg2002717#msg2002717)

PS: First post over the letter limit.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 04:51:35 AM
We calculated the average speeds of aircrafts as follow:

ALL TYPES:
A306   Airbus A300F4-600 722 kms Corrected as 722kmh.
A318   Airbus A318 557 kmh  corrected as 627 kmh
A319   Airbus A319 652 kmhcorrected as 627 kmh
A320   Airbus A320 663 kmhcorrected as 627 kmh
A321   Airbus A321 599 kmh  corrected as 627 kmh
A330   Airbus A330 706 kmh corrected as 687 kmh
A332   Airbus A330-200 779 kmhcorrected as 687 kmh
A333   Airbus A330-300 575 kmh corrected as 687 kmh
A343   Airbus A340-300 767 kmhcorrected as 759 kmh
A346   Airbus A340-600 751 kmh corrected as 759 kmh
A359   Airbus A350-900 810 kmh corrected as 810 kmh
A388   Airbus A380-800 815 kmh Corrected as 815 kmh

B712   Boeing 717-200 579 kmh corrected as 574 kmh
B733   Boeing 737-300 611 kmhcorrected as 574 kmh
B734   Boeing 737-400 572 kmhcorrected as 574 kmh
B735   Boeing 737-500  533 kmh    corrected as 574 kmh
B737   Boeing 737-700 584 kmh corrected as 615 kmh
B738   Boeing 737-800 736kmh corrected as 677 kmh
B739   Boeing 737-900 680 kmh corrected as 677 kmh
B744 Boeing 747-400    807kmh Corrected as 807 kmh
B748   Boeing 747-8 765 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
B752   Boeing 757-200 688 kmh corrected as 707 kmh
B763   Boeing 767-300 726 kmh  corrected as 707 kmh
B764   Boeing 767-400 780 kmh  corrected as 757 kmh
B772   Boeing 777-200 733 kmh  corrected as 757 kmh
B773   Boeing 777-300 794 kmh  Corrected as 789 kmh
B77L   Boeing 777-200LR/F 835 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
B77W    Boeing 777-300ER 783 kmh  Corrected as 789 kmh
B788/B789   Boeing 787-9 833 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 28, 2017, 05:04:07 AM
They are talking about speed of 0,7 mach to 0,9 mach.

0,7mach= 858 kmh.
0,9mach= 1102 kmh.

Do you see the lie?

Speeds should be 858 kmh to 1102 kmh but until this time, there is no any type of aircraft running over 0,68 mach. So the earth is...?

"smaller than their showed"
Or you're taking averages of the entire trip and forgetting that they travel much slower during takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing as has been mentioned multiple times before but you don't like to take criticism.

If you are a sprinter, you can tell me your speed is 36 kilometers per hour when you race, which is meaningful. but if you are running 10 kilometers and you tell me that your speed is 36 kilometers, you are a liar. I also put this out. I do not mean you, I speak in general.

I am writing the facts, not the dreams. your dreams are Paris but your facts are Addis Ababa.
You misunderstand.  YOU claimed the speeds of 0.7 to 0.9 mach are a lie.  But that represent their cruising speed.  You don't see that in your work because of the significant amount of time spent at lower speed due to takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing.  It has nothing to do with sprinting.  They CAN maintain those speeds the entire time and the longer flights show the average approaching those speed.

If you must use a running analogy, what you have is not the speed of the run but the average speed of the walking warmup before the run, the run, and the walking cooldown after the run.

I don't care what the claiming of cruise speeds are. I'm considering the reality. Thanks for your comment but I don't want to listen anymore lies.
I've said no lies.

I did not called you as a liar but you are repeating the  lies of aircraft companies.
which you haven't proven.

I have tracked many of these aircraft on RADAR when I was in the Air Force.  Their cruising speeds are correct.

If I momentarily agree the cruise speeds of aircrafts are true, but they mean nothing if they don't act to flight times. waste of times of landing, take off and overcrowding in airports can be considered, but when we consider the distances more than 500 kms, these waste of times  does not affect much the end result and the average time and speed is reliable.
They still affect it, but they affect it less.

On the other hand, we have not enough time to consider all of these effects. I have not enough time to consider all the effects but if a volunteer make all of these calculations, I'll glad for it. Do you see any volunteer is working on this issue hard? I don't see anyone willing to work hard in this issue, do you see?
Not necessary.  You're using the reported distance and flight times to get the average speed.  That means you're accepting the distance so why not just use that and avoid the calculations?

either you do not understand or you do not want to understand.

declared speeds are invalid. in this we agree.

What part of my posts indicated I agreed with that?

But declared flight times can't be wrong, at least they can't be much wrong. Because passangers generally don't pay attention to their flight speeds but almost all of them know the flight time. The people can be lied about speed. but it can not be lied about time, because everybody has a clock on his sleeve or on his mobile.
And as many people have mentioned, the flight times include takeoff, ascent, descent, and landing, which will be at a lower speed affecting the average.  There are also holding patterns and possible taxi times.  All of which you're glossing over.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 05:06:14 AM
...

Requered datas are already used. No more discussings are needed.

If there is an argument, you can show it by calculating the whole of the data. this is an calculation environment, not a discussion environment. the objection must be made concrete again. but after this, I will not consider objections. there is a serious reason for this.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 28, 2017, 05:11:45 AM
...

Requered datas are already used. No more discussings are needed.

If there is an argument, you can show it by calculating the whole of the data. this is an calculation environment, not a discussion environment. the objection must be made concrete again. but after this, I will not consider objections. there is a serious reason for this.
In other words, you've already decided you are right and won't listen to valid criticisms.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 05:16:36 AM
...

Requered datas are already used. No more discussings are needed.

If there is an argument, you can show it by calculating the whole of the data. this is an calculation environment, not a discussion environment. the objection must be made concrete again. but after this, I will not consider objections. there is a serious reason for this.
In other words, you've already decided you are right and won't listen to valid criticisms.

No not so. In other words, you and others have only aim to slow down the working. None of you put forward a working data in this working. You all just chew the rag, but this is the last thing that we need.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 28, 2017, 05:19:40 AM
...

Requered datas are already used. No more discussings are needed.

If there is an argument, you can show it by calculating the whole of the data. this is an calculation environment, not a discussion environment. the objection must be made concrete again. but after this, I will not consider objections. there is a serious reason for this.
In other words, you've already decided you are right and won't listen to valid criticisms.

No not so. In other words, you and others have only aim to slow down the working. None of you put forward a working data in this working. You all just chew the rag, but this is the last thing that we need.
No not so.  People have been trying to help you with information that is important regarding the flight times but you have just dismissed them all without comment.  If you think they aim to slow down the working then you are not paying attention.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 05:32:35 AM
...

Requered datas are already used. No more discussings are needed.

If there is an argument, you can show it by calculating the whole of the data. this is an calculation environment, not a discussion environment. the objection must be made concrete again. but after this, I will not consider objections. there is a serious reason for this.
In other words, you've already decided you are right and won't listen to valid criticisms.

No not so. In other words, you and others have only aim to slow down the working. None of you put forward a working data in this working. You all just chew the rag, but this is the last thing that we need.
No not so.  People have been trying to help you with information that is important regarding the flight times but you have just dismissed them all without comment.  If you think they aim to slow down the working then you are not paying attention.

I took it considered by compared the result with cruise speeds. The others don't requered to be got.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 05:35:11 AM
None of you try to help me.

You all just trying to say me what shall I do. I already know what shall I do. I don't need such as proposals. If you want to help, my door is opened for you.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: frenat on December 28, 2017, 05:39:13 AM
giving you information about how flights work and how they don't spend the entire flight at top speed is help whether you agree or not.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 05:43:16 AM
An example of calculating a distance from two airports:

Example airports:

Sydney to Beijing:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=YSSY&destination=ZBAA

Opposite:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=ZBAA&destination=YSSY

We need to see same types in two links:

There is 3 types of aircraft in this route:

A333, A332 and B77W.

A332:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA107/history/20171228/0243Z/YSSY/ZBAA

11:06
11:46
11:55
11:29
11:44

Average: 11:36

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA108/history/20171228/1545Z/ZBAA/YSSY

11:05
11:41
11:12
11:22
11:53
11:10
11:02

Average: 11:20

Average of times: 11:28

Average distance: 11:28x687kmh = 7878kms.

For this aircraft, average mistake is much.

A333

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA107/history/20171229/0235Z/YSSY/ZBAA

10:58
11:29
11:53
11:27
11:39

Average: 11:29

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA108/history/20171227/1605Z/ZBAA/YSSY

11:41
11:01
10:51
11:35
11:05

Average: 11:14

Average of times: 11:21

Average distance: 11:21 x 687kmh= 7786 kms

B77W:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA174/history/20171229/0940Z/YSSY/ZBAA

10:15
10:34
11:00
10:54
10:28
11:21
10:35
10:49
10:39
10:21
10:18
10:36
10:52

Average: 10:40

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA173/history/20171228/1745Z/ZBAA/YSSY

10:45
10:30
10:21
10:19
10:39
10:12
10:19
10:35
10:24
10:24
10:38
10:17
11:06
10:29

Average: 10:29

Average of times: 10:35

Average distance: 10:35x 789kmh= 8350 kms.

Our calculations:

7878 kms.
7786 kms.
8350 kms.

CALCULATED REAL DISTANCE: 7974kms.

Average mistakes on aircrafts:

Mistake of A332: 7878 / 7974-% = 1%
Mistake of A333: 7786 / 7974 -%= 2%
Mistake of B77W: 8350 / 7974-%= 5%

Google map mistakes: 8975/ 7974-%= 13%

I hope now everyone understand how our system is working good and how is round map is nothing but a bullshit!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 05:53:47 AM
It is perfectly working! Even between towards Sydney and Beijing! Wow!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: dumbass on December 28, 2017, 06:40:14 AM
so what is the distance to be used between Sydney and Beijing for this map?
How about listing all verified distances between cities to be used for this map as and when they are veriied?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on December 28, 2017, 09:18:04 AM
I think we are trying to verify whether or not Mussolini made the trains run on time.
How about Hitler and the Autobahns ?

Is it just me or is anyone else having any trouble making any sense of brotherhood ?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Space Cowgirl on December 28, 2017, 11:16:37 AM
I think we are trying to verify whether or not Mussolini made the trains run on time.
How about Hitler and the Autobahns ?

Is it just me or is anyone else having any trouble making any sense of brotherhood ?

If you cannot make sense of the thread, there's no reason for you to continue spamming it.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: ER22 on December 28, 2017, 03:49:11 PM
I have said before, I applaud BOTD's efforts.
At least he's trying to make a map.

Most FEs just use there smart phones
Get from point A to B using technology based on a globe.

They say it ain't right but they continue to use it.
Most REs I'm sure have asked this before, where is your freaking map?
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 28, 2017, 09:45:10 PM
First we'll calculate the outside points and central places.

Hereunder firstly we'll calculate the distances between following cities. If there is no direct fly, use another per.

Priority regions are: (city/airport)

Sydney (YSSY)
Johannesburg Or Tambo (FAOR)
Chile Santiago (SCEL)
New York  (ZNY)
Beijing (ZBAA)
London (LHR)
Doha (OTHH)

You may calculate the distances as the example as follow, and publish in this topic. If you don't do anything like everytime, I already can do it by myself. I wish you success

Referrence Example:

An example of calculating a distance from two airports:

Example airports:

Sydney to Beijing:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=YSSY&destination=ZBAA

Opposite:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=ZBAA&destination=YSSY

We need to see same types in two links:

There is 3 types of aircraft in this route:

A333, A332 and B77W.

A332:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA107/history/20171228/0243Z/YSSY/ZBAA

11:06
11:46
11:55
11:29
11:44

Average: 11:36

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA108/history/20171228/1545Z/ZBAA/YSSY

11:05
11:41
11:12
11:22
11:53
11:10
11:02

Average: 11:20

Average of times: 11:28

Average distance: 11:28x687kmh = 7878kms.

For this aircraft, average mistake is much.

A333

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA107/history/20171229/0235Z/YSSY/ZBAA

10:58
11:29
11:53
11:27
11:39

Average: 11:29

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA108/history/20171227/1605Z/ZBAA/YSSY

11:41
11:01
10:51
11:35
11:05

Average: 11:14

Average of times: 11:21

Average distance: 11:21 x 687kmh= 7786 kms

B77W:

https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA174/history/20171229/0940Z/YSSY/ZBAA

10:15
10:34
11:00
10:54
10:28
11:21
10:35
10:49
10:39
10:21
10:18
10:36
10:52

Average: 10:40

Opposite: https://tr.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA173/history/20171228/1745Z/ZBAA/YSSY

10:45
10:30
10:21
10:19
10:39
10:12
10:19
10:35
10:24
10:24
10:38
10:17
11:06
10:29

Average: 10:29

Average of times: 10:35

Average distance: 10:35x 789kmh= 8350 kms.

Our calculations:

7878 kms.
7786 kms.
8350 kms.

CALCULATED REAL DISTANCE: 7974kms.

Average mistakes on aircrafts:

Mistake of A332: 7878 / 7974-% = 1%
Mistake of A333: 7786 / 7974 -%= 2%
Mistake of B77W: 8350 / 7974-%= 5%

Google map mistakes: 8975/ 7974-%= 13%

I hope now everyone understand how our system is working good and how is round map is nothing but a bullshit!

You may finish your working like this: As a result, distance of between Sydney to Beijing is 7974kms.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on December 30, 2017, 10:59:29 AM
We could not determined the corners as SCEL, YSSY and FAOR, because there is insuffficient flights between these cities. Meanwhile there is no flight between Santiago to Johannesburg. Meanwhile these cities are not reliable ones that haven't reliable flights to other cities.

So method is changed. we will move from the center to the outside.

Number of Place/ City name/ (rank in world most crowded airports)

1- Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta (1)
2- Dubai (3)
3- Los Angeles (4)
4- Chicago (6)
5- London (7)
6- Paris (10)
7- Dallas Fort Worth (11)
8- Amsterdam (12)
9- Frankfurt (13)
10- Istanbul (14)
11- New York (16)
12- Denver (18)

Good luck.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 02, 2018, 05:53:06 AM
As a first try, we arrived that shape:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MazVNk.png)

Pre calculated distances:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.073kms. +-7%
Los Angeles - Chicago : 2.769kms. +-3%
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.221 kms. +-7%

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.168kms. +-12%
Dallas- Atlanta: 1369 kms. +-6%
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.583kms. +-8%

Distances on the map:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.074 kms
Los Angeles - Chicago :  2.769 kms
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.222 kms

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.028 kms
Dallas- Atlanta: 1.230 kms
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.723 kms

Distances map/calculated/Average mistake

3.073/3.074 = 0%
2.769/2.769 = 0%
1.221/1.222 =0%
2.168/2.028 = 7%
1369/1230 = 11%
1583/1723= 9%
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 04, 2018, 11:19:39 PM
Calculatin of the speed Method will be changed accordingly to Sam Hill's suggest:

here it seems that the speeds are proportional to the distance. for example, a slowly moving A319 in its general direction can travel at 50% faster than its normal speed when directed to a far route. Or a B744 aircraft can go slower in nearby routes, though much faster than others.

We have already told you why this happens.  A short route and a long route both have a time at the beginning where the plane is taking off slowly, climbing to cruise altitude slowly, and accelerating up to cruising speed.  During that entire time, its speed is lower than cruising speed.  Then at the end of the flight it has to slow down, descend, and land, all of which is again lower than cruising speed.  No matter how far you are eventually flying, this phase of flight takes the same amount of time and distance.  The data at Flightaware shows that these two flight phases take about half an hour total.  On a two hour flight, a quarter of the flight time (25%) is at lower speed, which dramatically lowers your average speed.  On a transatlantic flight of ten to twelve hours, 5% or less of the total time is at lower speed, so the average speed is much closer to cruising speed.

Yeah you and some others told it but nobody put forwarded an understandable data. Now I'll consider your claim about 30 minutes and try to formulate the speeds depend on flight times.

Good, I'm happy to have helped!  Here is an illustration of what I'm talking about.  The image below has the altitude (green line) and speed (yellow line) profiles for two regularly scheduled commercial flights, to which I have added color bars to highlight the portions of the flight that were below cruising speed (pink) and at cruising speed (yellow).  The upper profile is for the two hour Dallas-to-Denver flight you linked to.  Notice the proportion of the flight that was at cruising speed.  The bottom profile is the current longest-duration commercial flight, from Doha to Auckland, some 16 hours.  Notice how a much greater percentage of the flight time is at cruising speed.  This will raise the average speed for the longer flight.

It is not determined which method will be used for correcting the speeds. But the old speed values are not valid anymore, this is obvious.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: Pinky on January 06, 2018, 06:29:46 AM
As a first try, we arrived that shape:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MazVNk.png)

Pre calculated distances:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.073kms. +-7%
Los Angeles - Chicago : 2.769kms. +-3%
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.221 kms. +-7%

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.168kms. +-12%
Dallas- Atlanta: 1369 kms. +-6%
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.583kms. +-8%

Distances on the map:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.074 kms
Los Angeles - Chicago :  2.769 kms
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.222 kms

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.028 kms
Dallas- Atlanta: 1.230 kms
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.723 kms

Distances map/calculated/Average mistake

3.073/3.074 = 0%
2.769/2.769 = 0%
1.221/1.222 =0%
2.168/2.028 = 7%
1369/1230 = 11%
1583/1723= 9%

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: SpaceCadet on January 06, 2018, 10:17:46 AM

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Can you take any four locatioms he has disatances for and show if it is a flat or curved manifold?
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on January 06, 2018, 01:51:49 PM
As a first try, we arrived that shape:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MazVNk.png)

Pre calculated distances:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.073kms. +-7%
Los Angeles - Chicago : 2.769kms. +-3%
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.221 kms. +-7%

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.168kms. +-12%
Dallas- Atlanta: 1369 kms. +-6%
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.583kms. +-8%

Distances on the map:

Los Angeles - Atlanta: 3.074 kms
Los Angeles - Chicago :  2.769 kms
Atlanta - Chicago: 1.222 kms

Dallas- Los Angeles: 2.028 kms
Dallas- Atlanta: 1.230 kms
Dallas -  Chicago: 1.723 kms

Distances map/calculated/Average mistake

3.073/3.074 = 0%
2.769/2.769 = 0%
1.221/1.222 =0%
2.168/2.028 = 7%
1369/1230 = 11%
1583/1723= 9%

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Additionally doesn't factor in climb and descent speeds which will differ from cruise. Also doesn't factor in routing considerations such as diversion planning or avoiding unsafe regions.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 08, 2018, 12:13:52 AM

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Stop to confuse on me. I crossed out the wrong sentence. This is a bigt hoax. Airplanes are usually going upper side of all mountains. Aircrafts go on average 10.000 kms and fewer 9k. But the highest mountain just 8.800kts. So there is about 1.000 metres to touch down the highest mountain. But someone use it especially for hiding the real size of China. So this is a hoax. I don't want to listen/discuss such offers anymore.

Because as I said numerous time; offers here are not in the form of what I want. Yes I need help but only datas can help me. You and some others just trying to say me "what will I should to do". I already can decide what will I do, but you may help with your workings. There is noone is smarter than me, stay here. This is clear. I take note of the findings, but I can not listen to anybody what I should do. If you put a study into your self, I may take it in account.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: dumbass on January 08, 2018, 06:24:00 AM
Am I right to assume that the Triangle Inequality Theorem will apply to this exercise?
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 09, 2018, 02:40:37 AM
Am I right to assume that the Triangle Inequality Theorem will apply to this exercise?

That's not the same thing. We may define our method as "error reduction method by the successive iteration."
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on January 09, 2018, 01:19:37 PM
So this is a hoax. I don't want to listen/discuss such offers anymore.

The standard FE response to any robust challenge - call conspiracy/hoax and put fingers in ears and go "la, la, la, I'm not listening".

Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: rabinoz on January 09, 2018, 07:58:29 PM

Your enthusiasm is commendable, but your experiment contains a basic flaw that will render your results meaningless: You do account for stochastic errors but you do not account for systemic errors:
* acceleration, deceleration
* flying in loops until a runway is available for landing
* planes not flying in a straight line because of mountains and other obstacles

Plus, you only need the mutual distances between 4 locations to find out whether a 2D-manifold is curved. You could have stopped with the data-collection and started with the analysis after 4 airports.

Stop to confuse on me. I crossed out the wrong sentence. This is a bigt hoax. Airplanes are usually going upper side of all mountains. Aircrafts go on average 10.000 kms and fewer 9k. But the highest mountain just 8.800kts. So there is about 1.000 metres to touch down the highest mountain.
Quote incorrect, 1000 m is not enough in the case of emergency decompression. Hence aircraft divert around the high country of the Himalayas and Tibet. You have been told this before, but you must have a very short memory.
Quote
Loss of Pressurisation
In the event of loss of pressurisation, the standard procedure is to initiate an emergency descentto the higher of 10,000' or the Minimum En-route Altitude (MEA). If the MEA, as corrected for existing conditions, is above 14,000' (13,000' for some National Aviation Authorities (NAA)), continuing the descent to MOCA would be prudent. If the MOCA is also above 14,000', the route of flight will be limited by the availability of supplemental/emergency oxygen supplies. Flight crew supplemental oxygen is rarely limiting; however, passenger emergency oxygen, when provided by Chemical Oxygen Generators, is only available for a limited amount of time. This time is dependent upon the capacity of the generators that have been installed in the aircraft concerned. Regulations require a minimum passenger oxygen supply of 10 minutes. The majority of chemical generators have a useful life of between 12 and 20 minutes depending upon the type.

For flight over extensive areas of high terrain, the planned route must allow that an emergency descent to 14,000' (13,000' for some NAA) or lower can be safely made prior to exhaustion of the passenger oxygen generators. This descent will occur while following a pre-planned escape route that must also allow further descent to below 10,000' within 30 minutes of emergency oxygen supply exhaustion. In these circumstances, the descent will be progressive, based on the safe altitudes for the specific underlying segement of the escape route and will be flown at maximum forward ground speed. The distance that can be flown to reach 14,000' at the moment of emergency oxygen depletion defines the limits for the planned route of flight. As an example, an aircraft that can achieve an average ground speed of 5nm per minute that has 12 minute oxygen generators must be able to descend to 14,000' within 60nm of the planned route.

From: SKYbraryMountainous Terrain Escape Routes, Loss of Pressurisation (https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Mountainous_Terrain_Escape_Routes#Loss_of_Pressurisation)
Ignore that and the passengers might suffocate before the plane can get to a low enough altitude for them to breathe outside air.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on January 10, 2018, 01:19:27 PM
Is there a map to see yet? In something like an orthodox picture form?
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on January 10, 2018, 05:16:29 PM
Hi guys. In this topic, we'll make a map all together.

A lot of unhealthy rounders object to a possibility of flat map can be done by the way using flying times. We'll prove the opposite is true.

This map will be a proof of a flat map can be done by online. Yes, we'll do it by online. This working will be open to the public. So no one in the future will be able to claim copyright in this map. On the other hand, "the flat earth society" or me has a right to get  copyright in the future.

Ok, lets do it.

Method:

STAGE 1

1- flight times will be taken into account.
2- different speeds will be considered for different aircraft types. for this purpose we'll take an average flying speed for all types of aircrafts and make it a chart.
3- the average speed of the aircrafts will be taken from this chart. This chart will be in this post soon. averaging more than 100 flights per aircraft type will be taken for this purpose. (You may start to part of this project)
4- The distance between cities will be calculated by average flying times between those cities with product to average flying speed of the aircraft. (the speed of that plane will be ignored.)
5-  We'll work airport names instead of city names.

PS:
1- While calculating a spped for an airplane, consider the opposite route together. Take consider all the speeds including opposite direction. They may be about 10-20. Then start another aircraft. When all data arrived to 100, get the average speed for that airplane type and give the number to me.
2- Filed speeds on the page is not correct but estimate. For a better estimation use "flight distance/flying time" instead of filed speed.
3- Don't consider the distances less than 500kms.
4- Convert your images to format of 800x... The bigger images seems ugly in many browsers.
5- Inside China, inside Russia and inside Indonesia flights will not get considered. If source and destination is both in China or both in Russia, or both in Indonesia don't get it considered.
6- speeds that can not be calculated because reliable flights can not be found, will be found by comparison with other aircrafts in terms of flight times between the same airports. meanwhile this method will be used for control of calculated aircraft speeds.

Now.

CHART FOR AVERAGE FLIGHT TIMES FOR DIFFERENT TYPE OF AIRPLANES (Only Airbus or Boing if possible)

You may help me by clicking links on the names of airplane types and calculate the average speed for it.

Speeds will be used: (cancelled) Source: LINK (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73165.msg2005517#msg2005517)

A306   Airbus A300F4-600 722 kms Corrected as 722kmh
A318   Airbus A318 557 kmh  corrected as 627 kmh
A319   Airbus A319 652 kmhcorrected as 627 kmh
A320   Airbus A320 663 kmhcorrected as 627 kmh
A321   Airbus A321 599 kmh  corrected as 627 kmh
A330   Airbus A330 706 kmh corrected as 687 kmh
A332   Airbus A330-200 779 kmhcorrected as 687 kmh
A333   Airbus A330-300 575 kmh corrected as 687 kmh
A343   Airbus A340-300 767 kmhcorrected as 759 kmh
A346   Airbus A340-600 751 kmh corrected as 759 kmh
A359   Airbus A350-900 810 kmh corrected as 810 kmh
A388   Airbus A380-800 815 kmh Corrected as 815 kmh

B712   Boeing 717-200 579 kmh corrected as 574 kmh
B733   Boeing 737-300 611 kmhcorrected as 574 kmh
B734   Boeing 737-400 572 kmhcorrected as 574 kmh
B735   Boeing 737-500  533 kmh    corrected as 574 kmh
B737   Boeing 737-700 584 kmh corrected as 615 kmh
B738   Boeing 737-800 736kmh corrected as 677 kmh
B739   Boeing 737-900 680 kmh corrected as 677 kmh
B744 Boeing 747-400    807kmh Corrected as 807 kmh
B748   Boeing 747-8 765 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
B752   Boeing 757-200 688 kmh corrected as 707 kmh
B763   Boeing 767-300 726 kmh  corrected as 707 kmh
B764   Boeing 767-400 780 kmh  corrected as 757 kmh
B772   Boeing 777-200 733 kmh  corrected as 757 kmh
B773   Boeing 777-300 794 kmh  Corrected as 789 kmh
B77L   Boeing 777-200LR/F 835 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh
B77W    Boeing 777-300ER 783 kmh  Corrected as 789 kmh
B788/B789   Boeing 787-9 833 kmh  Corrected as 811 kmh

There is three types of speed groups:

+10% and -10% speeds has the highest mistake range.
+5% and -5% speeds are reliable ones.
+-2,5% group is the most reliable ones.

Calculation of 1st stage is in here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73663.0

Remind me if you see a broken link.

You can find the link of airplanes by click to this link:

meaning of the Color on speeds:
Green: data from consistent and reliable flights. highest reliability.
blue: data obtained from sufficient number of flights. reliable.
red: No reliable data was provided. will be corrected by comparison with the flights of different aircraft between the same airports. (after others have been completed)

....

STAGE 1 IS COMPLETED
...

STAGE 2: Calculating distances between the Priority regions:

1- Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta (1)
2- Dubai (3)
3- Los Angeles (4)
4- Chicago (6)
5- London (7)
6- Paris (10)
7- Dallas Fort Worth (11)
8- Amsterdam (12)
9- Frankfurt (13)
10- Istanbul (14)
11- New York (16)
12- Denver (18)

Calculations of stage 2 in here: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73696

FINAL MAP (Map will be created by finding the center of intersections)

Our map will be here as follow:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nJ4DDR.png)

When you want to, you may join this working. It is an open source working.

If you wish to participate in helping to make this map then you are more than welcome to do so.

We'll need to the masters of photoshop and cgi  soon.

So it is a good idea someone's develop themselves in this matter.

During we continue the working, someones may create earlier versions of map and we may publish it as an estimation.

For example:

It is show up that compared to the all other maps including round and flat ones, China size should x2 bigger than old one. Russian size should be %50 less than old. Indonesia is about %30-50 longer, Australia about 1500 kms to the east, related with China's and Indonesia's growing. Europe is about same size. We have not enough data for America, but perhaps the size about same but shape may be a bit different.

an earler map can be made taking them into account.

PS: I'm weak on that last stage of this working and need a help.

Contributors : brotherhood of the dome, Sam Hill,...

I am by no means an expert or even an authority on flight times , but from the little that I do know .:
There are so many variables involved that using flight times makes absolutely no sense.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 11, 2018, 11:03:38 PM
I made a decision about the style of working. I'll no more share all of links which all datas are coming from. Till I'm working on a topic related with this issue (link) (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73784.msg2006576#msg2006576) almost no one is helping me during the working. This is second or third repeating of same event. But I'm spending a time for creating all the links shows data where come from. This is for both help to helpers, and evidence of the correctness of the work and in the direction of leading to those who want to work in this regard. But despide of all of my efforts, no one is making a serious helping (Except Sam). Normally, someones should be helped here. so I was could to take back the time I lost while creating links, with these helpings. but things did not develop like that. it is nothing but a waste of time from my point of view to create evidence for you here. I'll no more do that, because I have to speed up.

I believe that everyone will understand this situation.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 12, 2018, 12:41:01 AM
Now the time for: Johny the great! :)

If you get me the data in a format I can parse, I'd be happy to help with coding up a solution that puts them all on a flat plane that fits together in the most reasonable way.

I gave you this data:

Distance-speed values for all types of aircrafts will be corrected by this corrected values:

300 398 515 563 780   1102   1252   1702   1808   2239   2717   3213   6526   6686   9086
562 575 657 667 720    750   760    801   805   828   844   869   899  900   895

and this data:

We should calculate the speed formulas depend on the distance of routes. This is our initial values:

Aircraft / / / Average speed on distances
Aircraft/ Avg speed/300kms*/ 398kms*/515kms*/563kms*/ 780kms*/1102kms*/1252kms*/1702km*/1808km* /2239kms*/ 2717kms /3213km*/6526km*/6686km*/9086km*
A306    722kmh   /NA            / NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /     NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A318    627 kmh  /NA            / 582kmh /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       / 769kmh /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A319    627 kmh  /545kmh     /621kmh / 687kmh / 703kmh / 743kmh / 816kmh /   NA       /   NA       / 810kmh  / 829kmh /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A320    627 kmh  /580kmh    /555kmh  / 671kmh /    NA     / 743kmh / 743kmh /   NA       /   NA       / 816kmh  / 809kmh /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A321    627 kmh  /NA           /582kmh  / 644kmh / 610kmh /   NA       / 769kmh / 799kmh / 804kmh /    NA      /  840kmh/     NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A330    687 kmh   /NA           / NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /861kmh. /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A332   687 kmh    /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /804kmh  /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      / 826kmh /   NA      / 881kmh
A333   687 kmh    /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       / 715kmh /810kmh  /    NA      / 834kmh / 844kmh. /857kmh./   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A343    759 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      / 878kmh
A346    759 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A359    810 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
A388    815 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /905kmh

B712    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
B733    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
B734    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA      /   NA      /  NA      /
B735    574 kmh  /NA/            NA         /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B737    615 kmh  / NA/      597kmh      /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B738    677 kmh  /562kmh / 582kmh    /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       / 766kmh /785kmh  /    NA      /   NA      / /   NA      / 861kmh./   NA        /   NA      /  NA      /
B739    677 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA     /   NA      / /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B744    807 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       / 920kmh/  NA      /
B748    811 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B752    707 kmh   /NA      /508kmh      /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA        /   NA      /  NA      /
B763    707 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B764    757 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B772    757 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B773    789 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B77L    811 kmh   /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      /   NA       /   NA      /  NA      /
B77W    789 kmh  /NA/            NA        /  NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      /    NA      / 881kmh  /   NA      /  NA      /
B788/B789 811 kmh /NA          /NA       /  NA       /   NA      /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /   NA       /    NA      /   NA      /    NA      / 897kmh. /   NA       / 881kmh /916kmh
Average of all types /562kmh / 575kmh / 667kmh/ 657kmh/  743kmh /  774kmh /760kmh  / 801kmh  / 813kmh / 828kmh /  844kmh/ 869kmh  / 853kmh  /900kmh /  895kmh

*corrected

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MdloJ2.png)

Lets do it all together, instead of talk in vain.

I know you can do that.

Would you want to give me aircraft speeds depend on distance for all types one by one? I mean, fill in the blanks ( type the real values to NA values) in the chart.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 12, 2018, 04:56:06 AM
We'll continue to examine distances between cities depends on this knowledge.

Stage 2 will be re started.

All values corrected and with themselves we made a chart.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3ERp6M.png)

Final chart:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6YG5r.png)

You may examine this chart. The fastest aircraft pre accepted as faster than slowest one %7 in same route. According to these preacceptance, all faults were minimized and all logical integrations are completed.

We'll use this chart for next operations.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: Danang on January 12, 2018, 06:30:51 AM
I suspect that airplane's speed can be set at any rate possible in line with how firm the airplane's material n design can bear.
Coz the medium is Air. By steady gas, acceleration will occur easily.

They might not reveal to the public about the true optimum speed. It's also about 'speedometer game' set by manufacturer.
Who knows the actual speed actually can reach 2000 kms/h or even more.

IMHO sun's speed is also among highly reliable variables for map making purpose, besides flight.

Just an input. I don't discourage you. Keep up with your work. Your flight threads are among my favorites to check out.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 14, 2018, 10:25:03 PM
Hello guys,

We'll prove now how a flight  manipulates flight time and this event causes hiding real distances.

Flight sites use raw data and cooked data together. Direct distances are use raw and flight times on first page raw data, and in the history as cooked data. But there is a hypocrisy on some routes.

I want to give you two spesific perfect example:

This is a raw data and cooked data in a route between London and Istanbul.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76VLQ5.png)

As we clearly see that, there is about 30 mins time correctance used in this flight for all datas in the chart. This correctance contains delayed times, lift off and landing times.

Another one in same route:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gO4GY3.png)

In this route, average 26 mins time correctance used for every flights. This is about 15% of flight time.

This is the corrected" best flight time: 2:55. And this data is corrected from 3:26. So it is corrected 31 mins.

This data come from here and here:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1972/history/20180115/1745Z/EGLL/LTBA
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/THY1972/history

Now, lets look to one of the manipulated flight:

Flights between Los Angeles-Beijing

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vrg7NZ.png)

I marked the best flight time and it is just 11 mins corrected.

This data comes from here and here:
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA887/history/20180116/0400Z/ZBAA/KLAX
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/CCA887/history

There is just 11 mins time correctance. This is about 2% of all flight time.

As we clearly see that, there is a correctance difference between routes Istanbul-London and Los Angeles-Beijing. 15% time correctance is used almost all of the flight paths in Europe. But this correctance doesn't used in suspicious routes likes Beijing-Los Angeles route.

This is a hoax. This hoax causes people think about this route longer than its real size. But this is not real.

it could also be an error. it could be chance. but I do not believe in chance, so accept it as a trick.

We need to fix this trick soon.

Either we will correct these errors, or we will use just raw datas. God damn NASA/ISIS/FETÖ/PKK supporters everywhere.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 15, 2018, 05:48:21 AM
Determining the center:

London (LHR)
Rejkjavik (KEF)
Los Angeles (KLAX)
New York (KJFK)
Tel Aviv (TLV)
Moscow (SVO)
Beijing (PEK)

London   Rejkjavik (1896) 2.103kms.
A320 speed: 822kmh. best: 2:43 distance: 2.233kms.
B752 speed: 835kmh. best: 2:32 distance: 2.115kms.
B763 speed: 835kmh. best: 2:21 distance: 1.962kms.
Distance: 2.103kms.

London   Los Angeles 8769 8.767kms

A388 best: 9:42 speed:913 distance:8856kms.
B789 best: 9:32 speed:909 distance:8666kms.
B77W best: 9:51 speed:893 distance:8796kms.
B774 best: 9:44  speed:899 distance:8750kms.
Distance: 8.767kms.

London   New York 5545 5.402kms.

B744 best: 6:14 speed: 892 distance: 5560
B772 best: 6:04 speed: 878 distance: 5324
A346 best: 6:02 speed: 883 distance: 5327
B763 best: 6:13 speed: 868 distance: 5396
distance: 5.402kms.

London   Tel Aviv 3.593 3.844kms
B772 best: 4:24 speed: 876 distance: 3.854
B77w best: 4:28 speed: 885distance: 3.953
B789 best: 4:08 speed: 901 distance: 3.724
Distance: 3.844kms.

London   Moscow 2511 2628
A320-321 best:3:13 speed:837 distance: 2.628

London   Beijing 8.162 8.486
A330 9:35 868 8.318
B773 9:25 907 8.540
B789 9:29 907 8.601
distance: 8.486 kms

Rejkjavik   Los Angeles 6.934 6913
A330 7:59 866 6913

Rejkjavik   New York 4.169 3.709kms
B752/763 4:17 866 3.709

Rejkjavik   Tel Aviv 5282 5.473kms
A321 6:25 853 5.473

Los Angeles   New York 3.978  4.246kms.
A320/321 5:05 853 4336
A333 5:04 863 4372
B763 4:39 867 4.031
distance: 4246

Los Angeles   Tel Aviv 12.181 11.888kms.
B772 13:26 885 11.888

Los Angeles   Moscow 9.769 9979
A332 11:29 869 9979

Los Angeles   Beijing 10.049 10.218
B773 11:27 893 10.224
B788/789 11:04 909 10.059
B77W 11:37 893 10.373
distance: 10.218

New York   Tel Aviv 9.127 8.514

B744 9:24 899 8.450
A333 9:55 869 8.616
B77W 9:43 893 8.677
B772 9:17 884 8.206
B789 9:29 909 8.620
distance: 8.514

New York   Moscow 7489 7.323kms.
A333 8:28 867 7340
B77W 8:12 891 7306
7323

New York   Beijing 10.981 11.495
B773 12:56  893 11.549
B772 13:00 884  11.492
B77W 12:59 893 11.594
B748 12:29 909  11.347

Tel Aviv   Moscow 2674  3.278
A320/321 3:46 852 3.209
A333 3:47 862 3.261
B77W 3:48 885 3.363
distance: 3.278

Tel Aviv   Beijing 7.149 7.665
A333 8:42 866  7534
B763 8:57 871  7795
distance: 7.665

Moscow   Beijing 5.802 6.263

A333 7:16 862 6263

Final shape:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nO5qnB.png)

Centered 7 cities are perfectly placed. I deliberately showed the intersection points in Beijing and Moscow, for you understand how its perfectly overlaps.

Some distances are shown in the map less than calculated. Because some routes may be less than distances flown by aircrafts, by the mistake of caused by not pass by the center of the map, mispredict the route and the globe map is already wrong.

Take care where is Tel Aviv. This was our surprise movement that gang perhaps wasn't consider we use it. Ahaha. Tel Aviv perfectly works, instead of Doha.  Ahahah. ;D

This is distances shown in the drawing between cities:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/G9pjnv.png)

Route / Calculated distances / Distances on the map / difference %
LA-Beijing: 10.218 / 10.218 / 0%
Beijing-Tel Aviv: 7.665 / 7.648 / 2%
Tel Aviv-London: 3.844/3.595 /7% (in less side, possible)
London-Rejkavik: 2103/2102 / 0%
London-Moscow: 2828/2628 / 8% (in less side, possible)
Moscow-Tel Aviv: 3278/3279 / 0%
LA-Rejkavik: 6.913 / 6.688 / 3% (in less side, possible)
LA-NY : 4246/ 4246 / 0%
NY-London: 5402/5402 / 0%
beijing-Moscow: 6263/5863 / 7% (in less side, possible)

Average mistake: %2,7 , fair.

We'll continue from this point.

Used data:

London   Rejkjavik   KEF   2103
London   Los Angeles   KLAX   8767
London   New York   KJFK   5402
London   Tel Aviv   TLV   3844
London   Moscow   SVO   2628
London   Beijing   PEK   8486
Rejkjavik   Los Angeles   KLAX   6913
Rejkjavik   New York   KJFK   3709
Rejkjavik   Tel Aviv   TLV   5473
Los Angeles   New York   KJFK   4246
Los Angeles   Tel Aviv   TLV   11888
Los Angeles   Moscow   SVO   9979
Los Angeles   Beijing   PEK   10218
New York   Tel Aviv   TLV   8514
New York   Moscow   SVO   7323
New York   Beijing   PEK   11495
Tel Aviv   Moscow   SVO   3278
Tel Aviv   Beijing   PEK   7665
Moscow   Beijing   PEK   6263
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 15, 2018, 10:21:53 AM

New York-Tel Aviv: 8847/8514  4%
Beijing London: 8488/8486 0%
New York-Rejkavik: 3.709/ 3.709 0%
Moscow-Tel Aviv: 3278/3279 0%

Average mistake: 1%

final image:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lO0AqB.png)

All datas are consistent.

Sao Paolo,
Santiago,
Atlanta,
Johannesburg, + (Madrid, Doha or Istanbul if requered)
Sydney,
Tokyo

I have the right to to 5% shrink the all datas in the centered cities, if requered. Because in fact first 5 latitudes aren't exist and perhaps it causes this distances longer. Or perhaps not. We'll see.

On Progress...
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 15, 2018, 12:25:07 PM
Sydney-Beijing: 8.975 9319kms
A332/333 10:57 869 9515
B77W 10:13 893 9123

Sydney-Los Angeles   12.075 11963
B77W 12:41 896 11364
B744 13:25 902 12102
B789 13:02 912 11886
B77L 13:26 912 12251
A388 13:20  916 12213
distance: 11963

Johannesburg-Sydney 11.036 9.776
B744 10:51 901 9.776

Johannesburg-Tel Aviv 6512 7487
B763 8:37 869 7487

Johannesburg-London 9.086 9378
A388 10:37 913 9693
A332 10:32 869 9153
B789 10:13 909 9287
distance: 9.378kms.

Johannesburg-New York 12.845 12.934
A346 14:30 892 12.934

Johannesburg-Beijing 11.721 12.037
B773 13:27 895 12.037

Sao Paolo - New York 7673 8.207
A332 9:06 867  7890
B77W 9:15 891 8242
A333 9:23 867 8135
A359 9:30 901 8560

Sao Paolo-Los Angeles 9930 10.495
B789 11:32 910 10.495

Sao Paolo-Johannesburg 7447  Either 7390 or 8884 (both can't be together)
A333 8:32 866 7390
B763 10:12 871 8884
inconsistent result

Sao Paolo-London 9471 9713
B772 11:14 884 9930
B773 10:38 893 9496

Atlanta-Sao Paolo 7519 7991
A333 9:13 867 7991

Atlanta-New York 1224 1447
A320 1:46 784 1385
B712 1:58 775 1524
B739 1:45 788 1379
B752 1:53 798 1503

Atlanta-Los Angeles 3130 3294
B738 3:54 856 3338
B752 3:50 866 3320
B764 3:44 876 3270
A321 3:51 852 3280
B739 3:47 856 3239
B77L 3:41 901 3319

Atlanta-London 6769 6432
B763 7:22 871 6416
B764 7:30 881 6608
B77W 7:11 890 6393
B772 7:05 891 6311

Atlanta-Santiago (Scel) 7597  7.950
B763 9:07 872 7950

Santiago-Sydney 11353 10.902
B744 12:06 901  10902

Santiago-Sao Paolo 2.617 3.100
A320 3:23 843 2852
B789 3:42 891 3297
B738 3:33 848 3010
B763 3:47 857 3242

Santiago-New York 8247 8484
B788/789 9:20  909

Santiago-Los Angeles 8997 9.423
B788/789 10:22 909

Santiago-London 11668 12.223
B789 13:25 911

Tokyo-Atlanta (NRT) ... (tokyo remained)

will be continued from here...
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on January 15, 2018, 01:52:12 PM
All you have to do now is to connect the dots and draw your map.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: Cartog on January 15, 2018, 03:19:18 PM
A map based entirely on flight times would be interesting .... but not accurate geographically.  This simple fact is that flying cannot always be done at the same or consistent speeds.  There are places on earth, such as mountains, and seasons and weather conditions that cause a plane to slow down, maneuver in turbulence, etc., so some routes would take longer to fly than the mileage alone might suggest.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 15, 2018, 08:18:09 PM
A map based entirely on flight times would be interesting .... but not accurate geographically.  This simple fact is that flying cannot always be done at the same or consistent speeds.  There are places on earth, such as mountains, and seasons and weather conditions that cause a plane to slow down, maneuver in turbulence, etc., so some routes would take longer to fly than the mileage alone might suggest.

It is all below. Montains are all below flight routes, weather conditions can affect take-of and landing but flight itself only winds.
The greatest factor is that some countries (for example China) don't allow direct trajectories, only certain corridors, and planes have to go around, extending the mileage.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 15, 2018, 09:58:09 PM
All you have to do now is to connect the dots and draw your map.

Yes. Insert coin.   :)
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 15, 2018, 10:35:28 PM
Tokyo-Beijing 2.095 2268
A320 2:37 825 2158
B788 2:47 872 2427
B77W 2:42 857 2313
A333 2:37 835 2185
A321 2:44 825 2255

Tokyo-Sydney 7827 8223
B744 9:02 898 8112
B789 9:12 907 8334

Tokyo-Los Angeles 8823 8264
A333 9:26 869 8198
B789 9:19 909 8468
B77W 9:06 893 8126

Tokyo-New York 10.888 10.862
B77W 12:09 894

Tokyo-London  9603 10.008
B77W 11:11 893 9987
B788 11:02 909 10029

We have a right to shrink the center soncidering 15% time correctance. This have several reason. One of the most important thing is aircrafts don't want to pass from Pole point and such aircrafts passing the pole are really turning around by drawing circle. This makes flying time about %15 more. We may consider it later.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 03:53:57 AM
We arrived some mistakes on flying routes caused by some frauds. For example, actually "Sao Paolo to Johannesburg" route doesn't exist. But aircraft companies or flying sites are claiming they fly themselves. But this is meaningfull. On a bir search proves that nobody went to Johannesburg from Sao Paolo. Because as a Spanish-Porteguese country Brasil people not at all interest to a British city Johannesburg. There is also nothing better than Brasil. So this route isin't exist, this is meaningless, this is not economic. So that, because of frauds such cities like Johannesburg and Sao Paolo, continue to the center seems a better idea. We'll turn the liars later.

Selected central cities: Atlanta and Tokyo as (calculated earlier) , and as a new cities Lisbon, Boston, and Ponta Delgada.

Boston

Boston - NY: 300kms 503
A319/A321
0:53 569 503

Boston_LA: 4.198 4387
A320: 5:03  855
B738 5:12 857

Boston-Atlanta: 1.522 1.699
B737 2:20 790 1843
A319/320/321 (x3) 1:58 790 1554

Boston-London : 5245  4.975
B772 5:50 878
B763 5:59 868
B744 5:33 892
A333 5:22 863

Lisbon

Lisbon-London 1567 1.646
A319/320 2:05 790

Lisbon-NY 5410 4847
A332 5:37 863

Lisbon-Moscow 3.897 4.080
B738 4:46 856

Lisbon-Beijing 9667 9675
A332 11:08 869

Ponta Delgada - London 2.559 2.919
B738 3:28 842

Ponta Delgada - Lisbon 1.450 1.356
A319/320 1:48 788
B738 1:38 792

A320/310 4:30 852

I think You wonder what is Ponta Delgada, who and why goes these strange place.  ;D

A different alternative for weekend. But people are generally fat.

Anyway. this is the only way to be a Portuguese. You should be fat and short. Otherways nobody understand you are a Portuguese or not.

Anyway.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y0mlaa.png)

Used datas:

Lisbon   london   1646
Lisbon   NY   4847
Lisbon   Moscow   4080
Lisbon   Beijing   9675

Tokyo   Beijing   2268
Tokyo   Sydney   8223
Tokyo   LA   8264
Tokyo   NY   10862
Tokyo   London   10008

Sydney   beijing   9319
Sydney   LA   11963
Johannesburg   Sydney   9776
Johannesburg   Tel Aviv   7487
Johannesburg   London   9378
Johannesburg   NY   12934
Johannesburg   beijing   12037
Sao Paolo   NY   8207
Sao Paolo   LA   10495
Sao Paolo   Johannesburg   THIS PATH IS A FRAUD
Sao Paolo   London   9713
Atlanta   Sao Paolo   7991
Atlanta   NY   1447
Atlanta   LA   3294
Atlanta   London   6432
Atlanta   Santiago   7950
Santiago   Sydney   10902
Santiago   Sao Paolo   3100
Santiago   NY   8484
Santiago   LA   9423
Santiago   London   12223

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Plpoj9.png)

We learned something important as a result of this study; Sao Paolo-Johannesburg flights being a hoax. Anyway. God damn who cheating the world.

do not you see how angry they are? Listen music and relax, we will bury them to the ground at the end.

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 16, 2018, 05:06:31 AM
I fly to Recife via Sao Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro at least once a year (although this year this might not happen). There are rarely straight flights from Helsinki, they are mostly from Frankfurt, but the next time I do so, I will surely have a timer with me!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 05:14:26 AM
I fly to Recife via Sao Paulo and/or Rio de Janeiro at least once a year (although this year this might not happen). There are rarely straight flights from Helsinki, they are mostly from Frankfurt, but the next time I do so, I will surely have a timer with me!

I'm sure you'll do that and see the Johannesburg below from 40.000 feets.  :)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 16, 2018, 05:22:44 AM
I seem to be able to book a flight from Johannesburg to Sao Paulo. South African Airways is the flag carrier. They claim it takes 10h 35' going, and 8h 50' coming back.

I do not quite get why the route is fraudulent?
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 16, 2018, 05:38:43 AM
There is also nothing better than Brasil.
Man, I have to disagree here!

At least they should start brewing better beer.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 05:44:50 AM
I seem to be able to book a flight from Johannesburg to Sao Paulo. South African Airways is the flag carrier. They claim it takes 10h 35' going, and 8h 50' coming back.

I do not quite get why the route is fraudulent?

I found same thing but it still seems a hoax. Except these two ones the others are indirect and connecting flights and between about 20-35 hours. these flights are not convincing. this is my decision. if you want to continue the debate on this issue, we may keep it there. https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73885.0
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 05:53:10 AM
Gran Canaria

Gran Canaria-Rejkavik 4.047 4.703
A321 5:26 853 4.635
B738 5:34 857 4.771

Gran Canaria-Lisbon 1.339 1.563
E190 (equal to B738) 1:59 788

Gran Canaria-London 2.904 3.243
A320 3:50 846

DH8D (equal to A319) 800 2:10

Added Gran Canaria in the aim of preparing the center.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb2gBJ.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 16, 2018, 06:03:44 AM
I do not quite get why the route is fraudulent?

All routes in southern hemisphere are "fraud" because they ruin their "proof" of the Earth to be "flat".
Standard FE "logic".
He already discarded all flights between Australia, South America and Africa because he doesn't like them.
Buenos Aires - Johannesburg, Antananarivo - Perth, Wellington - Santiago, Wellington - Lima, and more...

For now he's limited to northern hemisphere, to buy some time until he decides what to do with south.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 16, 2018, 06:14:15 AM
Oh, okay.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
I like smart enemies but ignoring stupid ones. I can not enjoy the easy winning victories. I already made a map and it is already done. If you make a bit search, you can find that I already solved the problems you talk about. But I'm going to more excited victory. This is my fun.  8)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 16, 2018, 10:40:12 AM
:(
I like smart enemies but ignoring stupid ones. I can not enjoy the easy winning victories. I already made a map and it is already done. If you make a bit search, you can find that I already solved the problems you talk about. But I'm going to more excited victory. This is my fun.  8)

hehehe

I wonder how you solved the problem of ground speed of subsolar point.
(What is the shape of the part between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn.)

Longitudinal (east-west) distances there are easy to measure that way.
North-south distances are the same on flat and globe maps anyway.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 11:17:53 PM
:(
I like smart enemies but ignoring stupid ones. I can not enjoy the easy winning victories. I already made a map and it is already done. If you make a bit search, you can find that I already solved the problems you talk about. But I'm going to more excited victory. This is my fun.  8)

hehehe

I wonder how you solved the problem of ground speed of subsolar point.
(What is the shape of the part between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn.)

Longitudinal (east-west) distances there are easy to measure that way.
North-south distances are the same on flat and globe maps anyway.

They are not middle of the earth. Oppositely, they are almost outside of the earth. For example, where  does Chile stay? Surely, it is about the furthest point to the center. It does almost arrives to the Antarctica. On the other hand, the center isin't big like that and first 5 latitudes aren't exist. This events make the earth smaller. The earth is not bigger like that but if you want to travel between this cities, you draw a miningless route but not a circle or elips. They are places that have no special features. Can you claim that Sahara desert and Bahamas have same air conditions? Are they really? No, they aren't. Tropics just a hoax, they mean nothing, like whole world.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 16, 2018, 11:41:56 PM
:(
I like smart enemies but ignoring stupid ones. I can not enjoy the easy winning victories. I already made a map and it is already done. If you make a bit search, you can find that I already solved the problems you talk about. But I'm going to more excited victory. This is my fun.  8)

hehehe

I wonder how you solved the problem of ground speed of subsolar point.
(What is the shape of the part between Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn.)

Longitudinal (east-west) distances there are easy to measure that way.
North-south distances are the same on flat and globe maps anyway.

They are not middle of the earth. Oppositely, they are almost outside of the earth. For example, where  does Chile stay? Surely, it is about the furthest point to the center. It does almost arrives to the Antarctica. On the other hand, the center isin't big like that and first 5 latitudes aren't exist. This events make the earth smaller. The earth is not bigger like that but if you want to travel between this cities, you draw a miningless route but not a circle or elips. They are places that have no special features. Can you claim that Sahara desert and Bahamas have same air conditions? Are they really? No, they aren't. Tropics just a hoax, they mean nothing, like whole world.

Chile is not in the tropical area. Argentima neither, nor Madagascar. South of Australia is also out of it, just as New Zealand.
Tropical Area is where projection of the Sun gives accurate measurements, more accurate than flight times because Sun ALWAYS travels 15 degrees per hour.
Direct measurements in real world (real life).
At Equator ground speed of subsolar point is highest, and in both directions (to the north and to the south) that speed gets lower.
It directly gives BOTH tropics (Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricotn) to have circumferences smaller that Equator.
What does it have to do with "Chile is not here or there" ?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 16, 2018, 11:47:35 PM
You are causing just waste of time.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 16, 2018, 11:49:57 PM
Brotherhood, you must be able to do better.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 12:05:32 AM
Brotherhood, you must be able to do better.

I am bad, I am ok like this.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 17, 2018, 12:07:21 AM
Fair enough!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 12:39:43 AM
Istanbul

Istanbul-Tel Aviv 1.135 1.465

B738 2:01 778
A321 1:46 774
A333 1:54 783
B77w 1:47 804

Istanbul-London 2.517 2.819
A321 3:07 837
A333 3:37 847
A320 3:19 837
B77w 3:15 870

Istanbul-Moscow 1.872 1.952
A320/321 2:23

Istanbul-Lisbon 3.226 3.715
B738 4:22 856
A321 4:20 852

Istanbul-NY 8.062  7.267
B77w 8:14 892
A333 8:17 868

Istanbul-Atlanta 9.282 8.647
A332 9:57 869

Istanbul-Beijing 7.078 7.767
B77w 8:43 891

Stage of working. Istanbul should be inside all of these circles:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOnpLN.png)

Sure we can:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3ENMar.png)

This point fully overlaps with the intersection of: Lisbon, Tel Aviv and Moscow.And stays inside of whole cities.

If the earth was not flat, how was it perfectly overlap like this.

Last version of map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/9mRA4r.png)

Istanbul is added as center of the universe.  :)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 17, 2018, 12:44:41 AM
"Istanbul is added as center of the universe.  :)"

That I am willing to believe!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 12:47:10 AM
"Istanbul is added as center of the universe.  :)"

That I am willing to believe!

If you don't believe it, so you may measure!  ;D
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 01:27:58 AM
New Delhi

We wonder so what happens if mountains prevent our intersections.  ???

New Delhi - Istanbul 4.563 4.849 (mountains???)
B77w 5:28 887

New Delhi - Tokyo 5.915  6.095 (mountains don't affect when aircrafts come from Tokyo)  ;)
B788/789 6:45 903

New Delhi - Beijing 3.813 4.669 (mountains start to affect if aircrafts come from Beijing, but not from Tokyo)  ;D
A333 862 5:25

New Delhi - Moscow 4.369  4.957
A332/333 5:45 862

New Delhi - London 6.739 6.983
B789 7:23  906
B77w 7:59  893
B772 7:54 881
B744 7:59 896

New Delhi - NY 11.768  11.396
B77w 12:44 895

I want to show you how these 6 so different routes perfectly matches.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MdX2M7.png)

On this drawing, New Delhi marked as the intersection point of 4 cities and 2 others are closer to them. One of the outside coming from NY and the other one Beijing. It is on intersection of London (far Europe), Moscow (Asia), Tokyo (far Asia) and Istanbul (middle east).

Added New Delhi as a perfect point. This proves how other cities well placed.

Used datas:

Istanbul   Tel aviv   1465
Istanbul   London   2819
Istanbul   Moscow   1952
Istanbul   Lisbon   3715
Istanbul   NY   7267
Istanbul   Atlanta   8647
Istanbul   Beijing   7767

New Delhi   Istanbul   4849
New Delhi   Tokyo   6095
New Delhi   Beijing   4669
New Delhi   Moscow   4957
New Delhi   London   6983
New Delhi   NY   11396

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6jklN.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 04:42:34 AM
Hong Kong

Hong Kong - Istanbul 8.017 8.370
B77w 9:23 892

Hong Kong - Moscow 7.145 8.212
B77w 9:13 891

Hong Kong - London 9.642 10.125
B77w 11:30 893
B789 10:41 909
A388 11:26 909

Hong Kong - Tel Aviv 7.736 8.583
B772  10:11 882
A359  09:05 901

Hong Kong - Beijing 1.995 2.301
A320/321 2:40 825
A333 2:38 835
B738 3:01 830

Hong Kong - Tokyo 2.906 2.987
A321 3:25 848
B772 3:30 871
B788/789 3:25 896
B77w 3:28 881
B763 3:20 862

Hong Kong - Los Angeles 11.679  10.479
B77w 11:25 895
A359 11:52 905

Hong Kong - New York 12.984 13.007

B77w 14:32 895

Hong Kong - New Delhi 3.750 4.128
A333 4:48 862
B744 4:27 891
B788 4:33 901

Lets place it:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76Yppv.png)

Anchorage (In the aim of fixing/stablizing the center of earth)

PANC-NY 5.441 5.417 (5.361)
B748 5:57 902
B744 6:07 892
B77L 6:01 902

PANC-LA 3.774 3.816
B737 4:59
B744 4:15 891
B748 4:16 901

PANC-Atlanta 5.495 5.241 (5159)
B744 5:47 892
B748 5:54 902

PANC-Beijing 8.6906.911 (flight site mistaken)
B763 873 7:55

PANC-Tokyo 5.521  5.325
B744 6:05 893
B748 5:48 903
B763 6:07 869

PANC-Hong Kong 8.175 7.661 (7.528)
B744 8:23 898
B748 8:35 908

Ok. Now lets create the center.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oO2mG9.png)

Used data for Anchorage, a bus stop of cargo companies.

PANC NY   5417
PANC LA   3816
PANC Atlanta   5541
PANC Beijing   6911
PANC Tokyo   5325
PANC Hong Kong 8159   (corrected)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/D7E1km.png)
FINAL VERSION OF 17TH, JANUARY, 2018.

In this version, the place of Tokyo, Beijing and New Delhi updated (was rotated around the center and changed at least to its effect to be minimum) ; Hong Kong and Anchorage well placed.

With placing Anchorage, we'll achieved a chance to place as well as whole cities in America. This become our 4th reliable city in North America and these number of cities enough to detmine the others with minimum errors.

On the other hand, Hong Kong works for let us understand where should be the whole world. It is a connection point to a lot of places in whole world.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Bullwinkle on January 17, 2018, 05:22:14 AM
On the other hand, Hong Kong works for let us understand where should be the whole world. It is a connection point to a lot of places in whole world.

Actually, Hong Kong is an outpost, not a hub.

http://flightroutes.geographica.gs/

Do you even have internet access?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 05:36:53 AM
Denver

Denver-PANC 3.867 3.956
B738 4:37 857

Denver-NY 2.613 2.880 (2.772)
A321 3:18 840
A319 3:30 840
B738 3:23 852
B739 3:26 852

Denver-LA 1.387 1.603
A320 1:58 784
B737 2:05 779
A319 1:58 784
B712 2:03 775
B738 2:03 788
B739 2:10 788

Denver-Atlanta 1.928 2.044
A320 2:30 819
B737 2:20 814
B738 2:27 823
B739 2:38 823
B764 2:29 842

Denver-Tokyo 9.303 8.893
B788 9:47 909

Denver-London 7.504  7.355
B744 8:12 897

Denver-Rejkavik 5.734 5.483
B752 6:19 868

I marked the circles which intersect for show you how the map perfectly works and how Denver is absolutely at there:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/PlpWpO.png)

Used data for placing the Denver:

Denver   PANC   3956
Denver   NY   2880
Denver   LA   1603
Denver   Atlanta   2044
Denver   Tokyo   8893
Denver   London   7355
Denver   Rejkavik   5483

Final image after placing Denver:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oO2WZR.png)

This is about 70% of whole world. They may say "hey where is south, where is the other part of the earth?". Perhaps. But there is no south or north, only a center. And these cities about more than half of the world.

You can ask any distances on the map, which you have a doubt.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 05:42:18 AM
Anchorage worked for fix the point of Denver. Denver is more and more stronger point according to Anchorage. Now we have very strong 4 points in USA:

Denver, NY, LA and Atlanta. I'm not thinking to use Boston. Actually I added Boston as an alternative to NY, because some flight companies fly to Boston instead of NY. Anyway.

These 4 cities are enough to find out every place in USA and whole continent of America; including Brasil and Chile.  ;)

This is tomorrows job. Soon...
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 05:57:10 AM
The next goal is determining the remain Priority regions:

1- Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta ...done
2- Dubai (3)
3- Los Angeles done...
4- Chicago (6) In a useless place.
5- London done...
6- Paris (10) In a useless place.
7- Dallas Fort Worth (11) **
8- Amsterdam (12)  **
9- Frankfurt (13) In a useless place.
10- Istanbul done...
11- New York done...
12- Denver done...

6 of important cities are done and 6 are remained. I'm not sure for that but thinking tomorrow stick on this issue.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 17, 2018, 11:44:16 PM
Dallas

Dallas-NY 2.237 2.447 2.241
B738 3:09 836 2.633
B77L 2:33 879
B763 2:55 846

Dallas-LA 1.985 2.135
A319 2:39 825
A320 2:30 825
A321 2:41 825
B738 2:34 828
B763 2:25 838
B789 2:31 872

Dallas-Atlanta 1.176 1.356 1.200
A319 1:48 774
A320 1:48 774
B738 1:51 778
B748 1:28 818

Dallas-Denver  1.033 1.167
A306 1:14 781
A319 1:35 764
A320 1:31 764
A321 1:37 764
B738 1:39 768

Dallas-Tokyo 10.334 9.306
B772 10:17  885
B788 10:27  910

Dallas-Beijing 11.288 11.509
B788 911 12:38

Dallas-London 7.636 7.352
B744 8:04 897
B772 8:19 882
B773 8:22 891
B77w 8:17 891

Numerous workings prove that London is closer to USA than shown in the ball/fake maps.

Dallas is added another "perfect point" in USA, after Denver placed.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Ygv3VE.png)

In this diagram, circle intersections how how Dallas true placed. These are 7 circles some of them coming from 10.000kms above and perfectly intersect in same point. I took all values as we calculated, just Beijing decreased 11.509 to 11.141 (google 11.288) and Tokyo increased from 9.306 to 9.958 kms (google  10.334). Google values still wrong but our differences decreased a bit for just these two cities. Others perfectly overlaps. On the other hand, 11.509 to 11.141 changing means 3% correction.

The time passing the USA-Mexico border.  ;)

El Paso

El Paso-Los Angeles 1.148 1.269
B737 2:01 769

El Paso- Denver 909 1.040
Various unknown type 1:21 770 1.040

El Paso- Atlanta 2.061 2.145
A320 2:36 825

El Paso- Dallas 887 1.191
B738 1:34 760

Version of 18.01.2018, Dallas and El-Paso is added.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/EPVQ49.png)

I chosed San Antonia, instead of Houston; because San means Saint is a good thing but Houston is a liar.  ;D

San Antonio

San Antonio Dallas 398 531
A321 0:56 578
B738 0:54 581

San Antonio Atlanta 1.406 1.607
B737 1:55 790
B738 2:06 800
B739 2:02 800

San Antonio Denver 1.282 1.444
A321 1:54 784
B737 1:47 779
B738 1:50 788

San Antonio - LA 2.033 2.091
B737 2:33 820

San Antonio - NY 2.554 2.793
A319 3:16 855

San Antonio El Paso 798 898
B737 1:13 738

San Antonio is added as a perfect point:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQpE4j.png)

5/6 points perfectly intersected, and 6th was Ny-San Antonio distance is changed 2.793 to 2.966 (6%). All data reliability about San Antonio is (6%/6-100%) = 99% (a bit worst than perfect)  ;)

On the other hand, you everytime can calculate any distances between cities you want, when you want to do. This is easy with our chart. Easy and reliable. Obviously reliable.

Used data:

Dallas   NY   2447
Dallas   LA   2135
Dallas   Atlanta   1356
Dallas   Denver   1167
Dallas   Tokyo   9306   9958
Dallas   Beijing   11509   11141
Dallas   London   7352

El Paso   LA   1269
El Paso   Denver   1040
El Paso   Atlanta   2145
El Paso   Dallas   1191

San Antonio   Dallas   531
San Antonio   Atlanta   1607
San Antonio   Denver   1444
San Antonio   LA   2091
San Antonio   NY   2793   2966
San Antonio   El Paso   898
(https://i.hizliresim.com/EPVE5D.png)

As I said earlier, you may ask any distance of this map when you want to. All distances are reliable.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 12:49:21 AM
Helsinki is an important point because there is flights almost to everywhere from this city. A well placed intersection point, if we true calculate it. There are flights from Hong Kong, Beijing, Tokyo, New York and London, Also  Tel Aviv, New Delhi, Istanbul and Moscow to this city. Also there is flights to a few useful small cities. This is really an important city for reliablity of whole map.

Helsinki

Helsinki Moscow 874 1.090
A320 1:27 752

Helsinki London 1.850 1.934
A320 2:18 819
A319 2:31 819
A321 2:16 819

Helsinki Istanbul 2.169 2.588
A321  3:08 826

Helsinki Rejkavik 2.446 2.695
B752 3:10 851

Helsinki Tel Aviv 3.235 3.422
A319 4:01 852

Helsinki Lisbon 3.367 3.634
A319/320 4:15 855

Helsinki NY 6.615 6.177 (corrected, Europe and USA are 500kms closer themselves)
A333 7:08 866

Helsinki Beijing 6.315 6.720 (corrected, Beijing about 400kms far to Europa in comparison with shown in the ball maps)
A359 7:29 898

Helsinki New Delhi 5.228 5.624
A333 6:31 863

Helsinki Hong Kong 7.819 8.274
A359 9:11 901

Lets try to place it.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3E918A.png)

As we see that, it is not a perfect intersection point, but close to be.

There was 10 circle in this map and selected place is in all of these circles. I chosed google distances between European cities because they were coming tousends of year experience were better than mines. As a result, Helsinki is a perfect place that selected place inside all of possible routes. Also from Hong Kong, New York and New Delhi flights are corrected in this place.

Final map for now:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOk4n5.png)

Used data:

Helsinki   Moscow   1090   874
Helsinki   London   1934   1850
Helsinki   Istanbul   2588   2169
Helsinki   Rejkavik   2695   2446
Helsinki   Tel Aviv   3422   3235
Helsinki   Lisbon   3634   3367
Helsinki   NY   6177
Helsinki   Beijing   6720
Helsinki   New Delhi   5624
Helsinki   Hong Kong   8274
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 04:39:48 AM
Monterrey

Monterrey El Paso 898 993
A320 1:19 754

Monterrey San Antonio 448 506
A320 0:49 620

Monterrey Dallas 846 1.054
E75L (slower than A319) 1:33 680

Monterrey Denver 1.624 1.800
A320/E75L 2:15 800

Monterrey LA 1.983 2.302
E190(converted to A320) 2:48  822

Monterrey Atlanta 1.746 1.910
B712  2:24 799
E190 (A320) 2:21 809

Monterrey New York 2.939 3.183
E190 (A320) 3:46 845

Monterrey placed perfectly, except El Paso. El Paso seems missed the intersection point till to 100kms. Locally important but generally not important. El Paso isin't already an important point and hasen't enough flights. So there may be remains a mistake for it.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/4aLL9q.png)

Chosed some of distances we calculated and others taken from ball map.(Some distances in the ball map is true and some others are wrong). San Antonio moved towards to line of "San Antonio-El Paso" for the correction of intersection point. After that, Al Paso and Monterrey moved towards themselves, per city 50 kms. error distribution is complete.

Final situation before adding the Mexico city.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JYYZY.png)

In this version, 6/7 cities are perfectly matched but El Paso made a 10% mistake as 100kms. It  divided to 50kms-50kms between El Paso and Monterrey.

Total mistake 10%/7cities= 1%. A bit worst than perfect.

Mexico City

Mexico City Monterrey 715 786
A320 1:05 743
A321 1:03 743
B738 1:02 747

Mexico City San Antonio 1.126 1.270
A320 1:39 774
A321 1:40 774
A319 1:48 774

Mexico City El Paso 1.559 1.557
B734 1:59 785

Mexico City LA 2.502 2.570
A319/320 2:57 837
B738 3:21 842
B748 2:44 885

Mexico City Denver 2.335 2.725
B737 3:19 828
A320 3:15 832

Mexico City Dallas 1.511 1.713
A320 2:01 795
B738 2:17 798

Mexico City NY 3.369 3.552
A320 3:51 852
B738 4:08 856
B752 4:18 866
B788 4:04 901

Mexico City Tokyo 11.266  10.412
B788 11:25 912

Mexico City London 8.914 8.423
B788 9:06 909
B789 9:26 909

Lets collect them in same frame:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/5D8dbM.png)

Perfectly matches except one. Lets guess, which one of them that I corrected to? London, or Tokyo, perhaps they are far and we made a mistake?

Ahahah. No. Only New York wasn't matched and I changed the distance of NY from 3.500 to 3.800. With this change, we made a mistake in 9 cities 10%/9 = 1% again. A bit more worst than perfect. This time I'll do nothing for NY. Because map is almost perfect and I don't want to change it anymore, if I'm not very forced to.

Final situation after Mexico City placed:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/kOjg3W.png)

Map is scaled. I put on it a scale. You may measure all of the distances by counting the squares. Every small squares are 250kms and main squares contain 25 small squares are 1250kms lenght. Map was always scaled. You may control any of distances on the map when you want to do it in every versions. Everytime a small square is worth of 250kms.

Used data:

Monterrey   El Paso   993
Monterrey   San Antonio   506   448
Monterrey   Dallas   1054   846
Monterrey   Denver   1800
Monterrey   LA   2302
Monterrey   Atlanta   1910   1746
Monterrey   New York   3183   2939

Mexico City Monterrey 786
Mexico City San Antonio 1270
Mexico City El Paso 1557
Mexico City LA 2570
Mexico City Denver 2725   2528
Mexico City Dallas 1713
Mexico City NY   3552   3867
Mexico City Tokyo 10412 11266
Mexico City London 8423 8849
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 05:37:33 AM
Puerto Vallarta

Third city inside Mexico city. The aim of this city is,  have another strong point in Mexico country. This will let us understand North America's continueus direction with a better estimation.

Puerto Vallarta - Helsinki 9.969 9.884
A359 10:56 904

Puerto Vallarta   Monterrey 774 966
A319/320 1:18 743

Puerto Vallarta   Mexico City 661 805
A320/321 1:08 710

Puerto Vallarta   Dallas 1.585 1.867
B738 2:20 800

Puerto Vallarta   Atlanta 2.509 2.737
A320 3:16 838

Puerto Vallarta   LA 1.963 2.202
B737 2:44 816
B738 2:38 825

Puerto Vallarta   NY 3.789 4.250
B739/738 4:43 901

Puerto Vallarta   Denver 2.135  2.295
B320 2:52 830
B737 2:41 824

Puerto Vallarta is added to the map as a point in Mexico country.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JYrYA.png)

Puerto Vallarwa is added as a strong point in the intersection of the nearest cities and in the circles of the others, including Helsinki. Nothing is changed.

Used data:

Puerto Vallarta   Helsinki   9884   9969
Puerto Vallarta   Monterrey   966   774
Puerto Vallarta   Mexico City   805   700
Puerto Vallarta   Dallas   1867   1585
Puerto Vallarta   Atlanta   2737   2509
Puerto Vallarta   LA   2202   963
Puerto Vallarta   NY   4250   3789
Puerto Vallarta   Denver   2295   2135
Puerto Vallarta   El Paso   1225

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Md6WL1.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 05:41:31 AM
Panama City

Soon...
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 05:50:24 AM
(https://i.hizliresim.com/EPVpOD.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 18, 2018, 05:52:43 AM
When do you think you would be able to draw countries on that map? Even though I can follow the map to some extent, a full visualisation would help me a lot.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 05:58:11 AM
When do you think you would be able to draw countries on that map? Even though I can follow the map to some extent, a full visualisation would help me a lot.

It is primarily John Davis'es job. For that, I should finish at least the inside and outside corners. I can do it by myself, but I have tried this before, I am not very successful in this regard.

Shortly, it is not ready to be drawn the countries, yet.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 18, 2018, 06:16:11 AM
Gotcha!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 10:20:47 PM
Gotcha!

This is a common and open source working. Everyone may draw countries in any stage of working, also you can. Do not expect from me do everything, that I can't do everything in same time. But you may help, don't you?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 10:41:57 PM
Panama City

Panama Istanbul 10.847 10.607
A332 12:20 860

Panama LA 4.850 5.213
B738 6:05 857

Panama NY 3.558 3.996
B738 4:38 856

Panama Monterrey 2.872 3.279
E190 (equal to B738) 3:52 848

Panama Mexico City 2.413 2.900
B738 3:29 825
B732 3:29 840

Panama Denver  4.247 4.556
B738 5:19 857

Panama Atlanta 2.784 3.222
B738 3:48 848
B739 3:48 848

Lets do it.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/kOj00J.png)

Used data for Panama (calculated/on map)

Panama   Istanbul 10607 10894
Panama   LA 5213 5282
Panama   NY 3996
Panama   Monterrey   3279 3074
Panama   Mexico City 2900
Panama   Denver 4556
Panama   Atlanta 3222 3044

Added Panama as a proof of the earth is flat; perfectly intersects with all flat distances.

Take care there is flights from Panama to North and South America and Europe. But there is no any flights between Panama to Asia.

If you look a ball map, it may be.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/0E7rpL.png)

As we clearly see that, it is possible to flight between Panama to Tokyo or Beijing.

But there isin't.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/YgvVEE.png)

As you clearly see that, there is no flights between Panama and Asia/Ocenia.

Because the earth is flat and Panama in the other side, according to Beijing and Tokyo.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/QVRy8g.png)

Imagine the ball earth map where was Panama, Beijing and Tokyo; and look how far they are in reality. So that, there is no flight between those cities.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: dumbass on January 18, 2018, 10:43:40 PM
Am I right to assume that the Triangle Inequality Theorem will apply to this exercise?

That's not the same thing. We may define our method as "error reduction method by the successive iteration."
Thats not the issue. I have drafted a map based on all major airports per country based on google map distances. As I get the correct distances from this exercise I adjust them on my map. I assume that you agree that triangulation is the only way to measure and "place" airports in the correct position relative to each other? In some instances this theory might come into play. Therefor the question.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 18, 2018, 10:49:53 PM
Gotcha!

This is a common and open source working. Everyone may draw countries in any stage of working, also you can. Do not expect from me do everything, that I can't do everything in same time. But you may help, don't you?

There is one thing that could make it easier:

All distances along any SINGLE meridian are the SAME on Flat and on Globe model.
(That includes distances from North pole to anything.)
If two places are at the same longitude, their distance can be copied from Globe map.

Last time I checked it was like that.
Even "Dr" Rowbotham confirmed it somewhere.
If you don't want to believe me, ask John Davis.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 11:00:53 PM
Am I right to assume that the Triangle Inequality Theorem will apply to this exercise?

That's not the same thing. We may define our method as "error reduction method by the successive iteration."
Thats not the issue. I have drafted a map based on all major airports per country based on google map distances. As I get the correct distances from this exercise I adjust them on my map. I assume that you agree that triangulation is the only way to measure and "place" airports in the correct position relative to each other? In some instances this theory might come into play. Therefor the question.

Sure you may use Triangle Inequality Theorem but I'll not do that. At least, I don't trust google map so use google values and calculated values together.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 11:03:50 PM
Gotcha!

This is a common and open source working. Everyone may draw countries in any stage of working, also you can. Do not expect from me do everything, that I can't do everything in same time. But you may help, don't you?

There is one thing that could make it easier:

All distances along any SINGLE meridian are the SAME on Flat and on Globe model.
(That includes distances from North pole to anything.)
If two places are at the same longitude, their distance can be copied from Globe map.

Last time I checked it was like that.
Even "Dr" Rowbotham confirmed it somewhere.
If you don't want to believe me, ask John Davis.

I trust neither John Davis, nor Rowbotham when the issue comes to theories. Main rule is "do not trust anybody". Ok, different ways are possible but this is my way. There is hiding something important in the map and globe maps can't explain it. Only a "real calculated map" can prove whats going on between Anchorage and Tokyo, isn't it?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 18, 2018, 11:05:50 PM
Now, gimme a break to workings. You may work how you want. This is my way.
Title: Re: Let's make a map by myself depend on flight times
Post by: dumbass on January 19, 2018, 12:23:40 AM
We arrived some mistakes on flying routes caused by some frauds. For example, actually "Sao Paolo to Johannesburg" route doesn't exist. But aircraft companies or flying sites are claiming they fly themselves. But this is meaningfull. On a bir search proves that nobody went to Johannesburg from Sao Paolo. Because as a Spanish-Porteguese country Brasil people not at all interest to a British city Johannesburg. There is also nothing better than Brasil. So this route isin't exist, this is meaningless, this is not economic. So that, because of frauds such cities like Johannesburg and Sao Paolo, continue to the center seems a better idea. We'll turn the liars later.

Selected central cities: Atlanta and Tokyo as (calculated earlier) , and as a new cities Lisbon, Boston, and Ponta Delgada.

[
Sydney   beijing   9319
Sydney   LA   11963
Johannesburg   Sydney   9776
Johannesburg   Tel Aviv   7487
Johannesburg   London   9378
Johannesburg   NY   12934
Johannesburg   beijing   12037
Sao Paolo   NY   8207
Sao Paolo   LA   10495
Sao Paolo   Johannesburg   THIS PATH IS A FRAUD
Sao Paolo   London   9713
Atlanta   Sao Paolo   7991
Atlanta   NY   1447
Atlanta   LA   3294
Atlanta   London   6432
Atlanta   Santiago   7950
Santiago   Sydney   10902
Santiago   Sao Paolo   3100
Santiago   NY   8484
Santiago   LA   9423
Santiago   London   12223

Use the Cape Town Buenos Aires flights instead
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 03:56:29 AM
Bogota

Bogota London 8.482 8.460
B788 9:19 908

Bogota Panama 756 912 827
A332 1:06 752
B737/738/E190 1:27 745
A320 1:07 743

Bogota Mexico City 3.163 3.348
A320 3:53 852
B738 4:11 856
B788 3:30 901

Bogota LA 5.606 5.457
B788 6:03 902

Bogota Dallas 3.937 4.359
A319 5:07 852

Bogota Atlanta 3.393 3.652
B752 866 4:13

Bogota NY 4.000 4.084 3.936
A332 4:34 862
B762 4:50 866
B788 4:35 901

Bogota as mapped:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/OoRzn4.png)

Used/changed datas for Bogota:

Bogota London 8460 7934
Bogota Panama   912
Bogota Mexico City 3348
Bogota LA   5457
Bogota Dallas 4359 3415
Bogota Atlanta 3652 2746
Bogota NY   4084   3451

Sao Paolo

Sao Paulo   Istanbul 10.560 10.564
B77w 11:49 894

Sao Paulo   London 9.471 9.773
B772 11:07 886
B773 10:50 895

Sao Paolo   Lisbon 7.943 8.208
A332 9:17 867
A343 9:39 867

Sao Paulo   NY 7.673 8.071
A332 9:05 866
A333 9:19 866
A359 9:01 900
B77w 9:15 890

Sao Paulo   LA 9.930 10.511
B789 11:33 910

Sao Paulo   Mexico City 7.441 8.274
B772 9:05 881
B788 9:25 906
B763 9:31 871

Sao Paulo   Bogota 4.341 4.399
A319 5:10 852
A332 5:06 862

Sao Paulo   Panama 5.091 5.291
B738 6:10 858

Sao Paulo   Dallas 8.253 8.603
B77w 9:38 893

The intersection on Sao Paolo.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOgvJ3.png)

There was some hardness to find this place. For solve it, whole America moved 500kms through down. This only affetc the distances in far east. So far east cities, Tokyo, Beijing and Hong Kong are moved 250kms to the Anchorage. While this move, the distance of these cities to New Delhi have not changed. Beijing become 250kms closer to Moscow and whole Europe. This move reduced the mistakes on the map.

The intersection point on the map is route comes from Istanbul as furtest city and Bogota as nearest city. As we see that, the best route is found by Turkish and Colombian pilots.  8)

As a result, Sao Paolo is worked to correct some mistakes on the whole map. On the other hand, we see that most of pilots don't know the true direction through Sao Paolo. We already understand it when we found the winds blow from opposite in Sao Paolo ;)

Used data:

Bogota   London   8460   7934
Bogota   Panama   912
Bogota   Mexico City   3348
Bogota   LA   5457
Bogota   Dallas   4359   3415
Bogota   Atlanta   3652   2746
Bogota   NY   4084   3451

Sao Paulo   Istanbul   10564   11500
Sao Paulo   London   9773   9471
Sao Paolo   Lisbon   8208   7943
Sao Paulo   NY   8071   7673
Sao Paulo   LA   10511   9930
Sao Paulo   Mexico City   8274
Sao Paulo   Bogota   4399
Sao Paulo   Panama   5291
Sao Paulo   Dallas   8603   8253

Final map after placed Bogota and Sao Paolo:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/dOnENn.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 05:32:58 AM
Chech out the reliability of our map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQpB0Q.png)

According to our map, it is almost impossible to travel Hong Kong from South America.

Lets control it.

Hong Kong is the one of the richest city and businessmen in Hong Kong travel almost everywhere in the world; except: South America.

Come on, you are rich businessmen, you can go to South America from Hong Kong. Come on,...

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lOkRJJ.png)

No, you can't.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/NZ5Jya.png)

If you really want to travel to Hong Kong from Sao Paolo, travel companies offer you three main alternatives:

Endirect From New York, LA or or Johannesburg.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/W7VyVP.png)

On the other hand, you may almost travel around the world for going through Hong Kong, from Sao Paolo.

But why? Why can't we directly fly between these cities. This is the offers came from Airline companies to us for our travel, according our flat map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/vjglRp.png)

According to this map, endirect NY route has an advantage.

Is it really so?

Lets compare them from here:

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/findflight?origin=SBGR&destination=VHHH

JFK route: 9:30+16:00= 25:30 hours. (average)
Los Angeles route: 12:30+15:00=27:30 hours. (average)
Johannesburg route: 10:30+ 12:30=23:00

This is the distance on our map between these cities:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBlayY.png)

17.700kms. You may run this path with a best aircraft in time of: 17.700kms/920kmh=about 20:00 hours.

As a result you can at least in 20 hours direct between these cities. And these aircraft companies offer you nothing better than this time.

If you really want to fly directly between these cities, google offers you this path:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnJ4D1.png)

It seems a straight line and shortest distance. If you look to our map, the shortest route passes center of the Europe:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/qG4ayR.png)

Rejkavik-Beijing-Hong Kong.

or, somewhere near Rejkavik, (Moscow or Helsinki) and Hong Kong.

lets test it:

Johannesburg:
Sao Paolo-Johannesburg: 10:15
Johannesburg-Hong Kong: 12:35
total: 22:50

Frankfurt:

Sao Paolo-Frankfurt: 11:35
Frankfurt -Hong Kong: 10:55

Total: 22:30

Amsterdam:

Sao Paolo-Amsterdam: 11:35
Amsterdam Hong Kong: 11:10

Total: 22:45

London:

Sao Paolo: 11:35
London-Hong Kong: 11:55
total: 23:30

Zurich:

Sao Paolo-Zurich: 11:40
Zurich-Hong Kong: 11:35
Total: 23:15

As we see that, the path passing from Frankfurt is the best; also it is better than path passes from Johannesburg.

If we wan to consider all the alternatives with Frankfurt:

Frankfurt:22:30
Johannesburg:22:50
NY: 25:30
LA: 27:00

Frankfurt is the best, as we predicted.

According to google map, Middle Africa is the best path:

Lets remember it:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnJ4D1.png)

Etyopya or Angola seems on the way. Ok, lets try it and see what happens if you use the shortest "(so called) path on the google map:

Sao Paolo-Addis Ababa (Etyopya) : 13:00
total:22:30

Equal to Frankfurt.

Ok lets try another one: Istanbul.

Sao Paolo-Istanbul: 12:20
Istanbul-Hong Kong: 10:00
total: 22:20

This is the best.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOgD0M.png)

Look at the flight sites to see this reality.

because of airline companies are managed by idiots, they runs half an hor or hours more then requered.

I can't think everything by myself, can I?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 19, 2018, 05:54:42 AM
Nice! But it takes a while for me to fully understand it.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 06:12:22 AM
Santiago Chile

Santiago London 11.668 12223
B789 13:25 911

Santiago Atlanta 7.597 7964
B763 9:08 872

Santiago Los Angeles 9.0009393
B788 10:20 909

Santiago Dallas 7.875 8293
B788 9:08 908

Santiago Sao Paolo 2.6173012
A320  3:14 843
B789 3:42  891

Santiago Bogota 4.2564670
B788 5:29 902
B319 5:09 853

Santiago Panama 4.8135622
B788 6:14 902

Santiago Mexico City 6.604 6855
B788 7:34 906

Added Santiago Chile as inside of the routes:

Santiago   London   12223   11668
Santiago   Atlanta   7964   7597
Santiago   Los Angeles   9393   9000
Santiago   Dallas   8293   7875
Santiago   Sao Paolo   3012   2617
Santiago   Bogota   4670   4256
Santiago   Panama   5622   4813
Santiago   Mexico City   6855   6604

I considered both my calculations and google distances together. Because this was a hard one (last important city in South America, according to mapping mentality)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76oJVW.png)

North America, including Anchorage moved 500kms to the bottom on the line of Panama-Bogota (for save distances towards these and remained cities)

This is an exercise show something means nothing yet, but will do soon.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/NZ5XWX.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 06:14:29 AM
Nice! But it takes a while for me to fully understand it.

I'm not trying at all for you understand it.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on January 19, 2018, 09:35:17 AM
Santiago Chile

Santiago London 11.668 12223
B789 13:25 911

Santiago Atlanta 7.597 7964
B763 9:08 872

Santiago Los Angeles 9.0009393
B788 10:20 909

Santiago Dallas 7.875 8293
B788 9:08 908

Santiago Sao Paolo 2.6173012
A320  3:14 843
B789 3:42  891

Santiago Bogota 4.2564670
B788 5:29 902
B319 5:09 853

Santiago Panama 4.8135622
B788 6:14 902

Santiago Mexico City 6.604 6855
B788 7:34 906

Added Santiago Chile as inside of the routes:

Santiago   London   12223   11668
Santiago   Atlanta   7964   7597
Santiago   Los Angeles   9393   9000
Santiago   Dallas   8293   7875
Santiago   Sao Paolo   3012   2617
Santiago   Bogota   4670   4256
Santiago   Panama   5622   4813
Santiago   Mexico City   6855   6604

I considered both my calculations and google distances together. Because this was a hard one (last important city in South America, according to mapping mentality)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76oJVW.png)

North America, including Anchorage moved 500kms to the bottom on the line of Panama-Bogota (for save distances towards these and remained cities)

This is an exercise show something means nothing yet, but will do soon.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/NZ5XWX.png)

I see you have Los Angeles and San Antonio north of Dallas.
And Mexico City due west of Dallas.
And Atlanta and New York south of Dallas.
How enlightening !
You need to inform Rand McNally and FAA their charts and maps are in error and in need of corrections.

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 09:52:34 AM
I see you have Los Angeles and San Antonio north of Dallas.
And Mexico City due west of Dallas.
And Atlanta and New York south of Dallas.
How enlightening !
You need to inform Rand McNally and FAA their charts and maps are in error and in need of corrections.

Quote
I see you have Los Angeles and San Antonio north of Dallas.

You are ignorant that don't know which side is North and where is south. North is the right side of all your talking cities and Dallas and LA about same latitude and they are northern side of San Antonia.

Quote
And Mexico City due west of Dallas.

Mexico city due west also your father's map.

Quote
And Atlanta and New York south of Dallas.

Think north is right according to them.

You are really ignorant. I have ever seen an ignorant like you.

I did not mark to center or North there. If you don't have an idea about it, shut up! Now get out of here and don't come back again, you ignorant!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on January 19, 2018, 10:13:54 AM
If you don't know how to make accurate maps, I think you should take some lessons in cartography before you proceed any further in your project.

By now "It should be obvious to the most casual observer" (borrowing a line from an old text book) your maps are, to put it mildly, a bit of nonsense. LOL.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 10:35:33 AM
If you don't know how to make accurate maps, I think you should take some lessons in cartography before you proceed any further in your project.

By now "It should be obvious to the most casual observer" (borrowing a line from an old text book) your maps are, to put it mildly, a bit of nonsense. LOL.

I did not say such a thing. You are talking with yourself. Your missunderstandings and ignorant not show my map's mistaken. Only proves how you are ignorant and but not embarrassed.

You are just talking in vain.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 19, 2018, 10:38:15 AM
If these blocking efforts continue, I will have to continue in another section where you can not enter sabotage this work.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: kennykirklan on January 19, 2018, 03:00:30 PM
I'm not trying at all for you understand it.

Evidently.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Space Cowgirl on January 20, 2018, 07:30:30 AM
Googleotomy, stop spamming this thread. Either help make the map or stay out of it. You too kennykirklan.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: robintex on January 20, 2018, 08:10:53 AM
Googleotomy, stop spamming this thread. Either help make the map or stay out of it. You too kennykirklan.

I am trying to help brotherhood make his map more accurate by suggesting.:
(1) That he take some courses in cartography to help him formulate his map.
(2) That he check the relative locations of cities on his map to see if cities are north, south, east or west of each other as I have noted.
(3) I would really like to see his completed and accurate map.
(4) I have pointed out some errors in his map for him to correct.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Space Cowgirl on January 20, 2018, 08:22:34 AM
No, that's not what you posted. You just want an excuse to insult him. Don't do it again.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: John Davis on January 20, 2018, 12:40:09 PM
I agree, from a strictly non-moderation standpoint. Things get out of hand here often, as we wish to give a level playing field to the globularist. However, this should not stop each and everyone of us from acting like a decent person. We all come here regularly, and hold some importance to it. Please try to treat this place as your home, even if you disagree with your roommates.

I know I fail at this sometimes, as we all do; some abuse this though. I will do my best to improve, but you guys can't really think you are proving the globe right while at the same time acting like chimpanzees.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 20, 2018, 01:35:48 PM
I recommend you work  a bit on photoshop. All discussings here are temporary but our need of a photoshop master is stable.

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 20, 2018, 01:56:23 PM
Honolulu (Hawai island)

This is important for us to understand Ocenia sided countries.

Honolulu-Tokyo 6.200 5.610
A332 6:22 864
B789 6:20 903

Honolulu-Beijing 8.141 7.433
A330 8:37 868
A332 8:32 868

Honolulu-LA 4.113 4.240 4.073
A321 4:56 852
B753 4:51 857
B739 5:16 860
B744 4:34 892

Honolulu-Dallas  6.088 6.094
B772 6:56 879

Honolulu-NY 8.015 7.817
A332 9:01 867

Honolulu-Atlanta 7.241 7.217
A333 8:20 866

Honolulu- Anchorage 4.480 4.722 4.594
B738 5:43 857
B744 5:09 892

To be continued at monday...

After FETÖ has hacked my computer, I took it a hard format and after that, I lost my Autocad. Yet I could not bough a new Autocad. As a poor man, it is not easy to buy an Autocad for me. And they even have not said a "pardon".
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: John Davis on January 20, 2018, 02:01:27 PM
I can do photoshop, but I'd rather not. Why do you think photoshop skills are important?

On other notes: you can get autocad by a free license through educational efforts they put out. I think you need to be worrying a lot more about taking the data you are creating and making it consumable to any format.  Most cheap classes can provide a license to you for free. If you need licenses, we can find the way for you to get that software. If not, make it in an easy common format for us.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 20, 2018, 02:23:13 PM
After FETÖ has hacked my computer, I took it a hard format and after that, I lost my Autocad. Yet I could not bough a new Autocad. As a poor man, it is not easy to buy an Autocad for me. And they even have not said a "pardon".

Sorry to hear that.
It is not that you transfered your copy to someone else.
Once paid, you have right to use the same version / build forever, no matter where you obtain the installation from.

If you lost the license, I don't think in Turkey they would prosecute you for having copy on your private computer.
But I don't know the Turkish legal practices.

On the other hand, if you don't want to take any risk, one of alternatives could be FreeCAD. Looks promising.

Actually, gogling for "free autocad replacement" gave me just in first few seconds at least 8 of them:

- SketchUp.
- DraftSight.
- VectorWorks.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: John Davis on January 21, 2018, 01:38:09 AM
Understood, thanks for explaining. Godspeed.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 21, 2018, 01:38:41 AM
I can do photoshop, but I'd rather not. Why do you think photoshop skills are important?

On other notes: you can get autocad by a free license through educational efforts they put out. I think you need to be worrying a lot more about taking the data you are creating and making it consumable to any format.  Most cheap classes can provide a license to you for free. If you need licenses, we can find the way for you to get that software. If not, make it in an easy common format for us.

I'm only off at weekend. I still have an autocad in office.

Photoshop is requered because to make the map easier. After all distances revealed, we should convert it to known places, add it seas, oceans and known borders. There are exist only in populer maps. Our map will be convertable from popular maps, but considering with distances. Its only possible with a program such as photoshop.

For example:

You have a map shows distances between: (1,1,1,1)

And if I give you distances between these cities like this: (1,1,2,2)

So while two distances stay same, others should be increased 2 times. So you may take any map shows these 4 cities and adapt them to second values.

If we really want a map totally independent, we  should calculate whole middle cities and countries but it takes really a long time.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 21, 2018, 01:39:26 AM
Deleted and edited previous post. Anyway.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 21, 2018, 03:04:17 AM
What the?! Why did the Gülenists hack your computer?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 21, 2018, 05:07:05 AM
Damn. I guess insurance will not cover any of that damage.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 21, 2018, 05:47:23 AM
Damn. I guess insurance will not cover any of that damage.

Perhaps. furthermore all of my previous working in the society; including old dwg files contain my previous map. The picture upload site is also closed. In this case, I can not get back the most of my workings. I did not get their backup. it is even almost impossible to prove the truth of this hacking event. but I think that every action they take is recorded because this click is perhaps completely official. in short, these are a gang leaked in the state. If the state is really sincere in fighting against them, it should find those who do it. then I can sue them by using their own names. Fetö still is a really serious structure here, so I'm not sure of if my criminal complaint works or not. Perhaps they will cover it. Perhaps insurance may want compensation from me; because here is Turkey.

I'm not making a joke. When I first announced that event, the reaction of our IT manager was "you hacked yourself". Sure, he blamed me to hacking myself. What a nonsence, because here is Turkey. So it will not be a surprise insurance will blame me with "hacking myself" and harm to computer and datas, bla bla.

All is possible.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 22, 2018, 12:07:30 AM

Sao Paolo is re-placed.

For this operation, Sao Paolo and Santiago both are deleted. Whole map 3,5% shrinked in the aim of reduce to mistakes caused by flight routes. This is half of our "pre accepted" error limit.

After that, both Panama and Bogota  moved on the line "South East" as 500kms.

After that, a good intersection point created, except Istanbul. It is important because this is out of the line. There is 1.500kms difference between the line of Istanbul and Sao Paolo. So that, whole Europe and Asia rotated around "estimated" center and tried to create a better estimation on Sao Paolo.

Panama and Bogota both moven on the line of southeast 500kms more. LA for saving the distance of Bogota and Panama, moved 250kms through Denver.

Sao Paolo and Santiago are re-placed again.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/VrV4kj.png)

There is a good point for Honolulu, only a handicap with Anchorage. Anchorage is a point only connected to America. So that, it has moved to center in the aim of save distances with both whole America and Honolulu.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/6J2oR3.png)

Anchorage moved through center, in the circle that center as LA (for save the distance), Honolulu re-placed as inside whole circles, for to be in safe side.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/XPvaBo.png)

Map is re-designed with these movements.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 22, 2018, 12:11:37 AM
Panama and Bogota are rotated arount themselves till they become to same latitude:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/kOkqkm.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 22, 2018, 12:14:38 AM
Santiago is moved North, through Panama in the aim of save distance with Panama. (Distances not a lot changed with Sao paolo, and distance to Bogota is a bit decreased)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/PlqyBN.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 22, 2018, 01:28:23 AM
I wonder about one thing here.
Cities that have noon together are on the same longitudes.
Time zones are not straight, they are adjusted by political borders, so solar noon is relevant here, not noon on clock.
If two locations have noon exactly two hours apart, then their longitude difference is 30 degrees.
(Noon being 30 minutes apart shows longitude difference of 7.5 degrees.)

It is precise data, clearly shown by Sun position, can be verified easily, and WAS verified many times.

Correct longitudes are important part of every map, no matter the Earth shape.

EDIT: For example, Antalya (Turkey), Eskisehir (Turkey), Kiev (Ukraine) and Sankt-Petersburg (Russia) are all on same meridian, plus or minus 0.1 degree.
Or, Mobridge (S.Dakota) and Monterey (Mexico) are on same meridian, and Battle Creek (Michigan) and Liberia (Costa Rica) are both 15 degrees to the east from them.

Can we draw the conclusion that longitudes on Flat map and longitudes on Globe map match each other?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 22, 2018, 04:33:58 AM
I wonder about one thing here.
Cities that have noon together are on the same longitudes.
Time zones are not straight, they are adjusted by political borders, so solar noon is relevant here, not noon on clock.
If two locations have noon exactly two hours apart, then their longitude difference is 30 degrees.
(Noon being 30 minutes apart shows longitude difference of 7.5 degrees.)

It is precise data, clearly shown by Sun position, can be verified easily, and WAS verified many times.

Correct longitudes are important part of every map, no matter the Earth shape.

EDIT: For example, Antalya (Turkey), Eskisehir (Turkey), Kiev (Ukraine) and Sankt-Petersburg (Russia) are all on same meridian, plus or minus 0.1 degree.
Or, Mobridge (S.Dakota) and Monterey (Mexico) are on same meridian, and Battle Creek (Michigan) and Liberia (Costa Rica) are both 15 degrees to the east from them.

Can we draw the conclusion that longitudes on Flat map and longitudes on Globe map match each other?

Surely. After this working is finished such a correction will be done. For today, I made it for two cities, Bogota and Panama. I rotated them for to be as a correction of their real locations. Panama was south of the Bogota. And I corrected them as Panama is west of the Bogota. I know there is still some differences but such differences should be corrected by comparing difference sources like "true sun positions". Because we know also "sunanddate" doesn't provide reliable datas. Perhaps, the average of what the time of people's waking up and sleep times is more reliable than shown times on global liar web sites.  ;)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 22, 2018, 05:29:50 AM
Vancouer

We'll use for vancour some distances from the globe map till they overlaps with flight times:

Vancouer LA 1.804
Vancouer Anchorage 2.200
Vancouer Mexico City 3.948
Vancouer NY 3.936
Vancouer Dallas 2.822
Vancouer Denver 1.791
Vancouer Rejkavik 5.691 6.190
Vancouer London 7.586 7.802
Vancouer Beijing 8.503 9063
Vancouer Tokyo 7.567 8.327
Vancouer New Delhi 11.151 13.423
Vancouer Hong Kong 10.280 11.890
Vancouer Honolulu  4.358 5.200

Rejkavik moved through London 235 kms.

Anchorage moved through Rejkavik 200kms and a perfect intersection occurred for Vancouer.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQ4dNn.png)

Anchorage is added as a perfect point, overlaps with points from whole world, including Beijing and New Delhi.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOVYDV.png)

Added Honolulu and Vancouer with some corrections on the other cities.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 22, 2018, 05:57:54 AM
America continet is generally finished. There is some retouches are remain. I writed the distances of the whole American cities. Somebody may convert it to a map as a previous version of America continent.

1:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/m2z85Y.png)

2:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nOgGMR.png)

You may also count squares if is requered.

This is enough for an earlier version of America.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 23, 2018, 01:04:52 AM

Addis Ababa Sao Paolo 9.938 10.290
Addis Ababa Tel Aviv 2.597 3.625 corrected as 3.298
Addis Ababa-Washington (+-500 for check NY)  11.577 10.700 NY inside 11.200

3 cities are perfectly intersects for Addis Ababa. These are New Delhi, Istanbul and London. One is close, it it Tel Aviv. NY circle stays outside of city and corrected. Two are close too but city has stayed outside of them.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nOgW00.png)

As we know that, there is no problem if city stays inside of circles, but there is a problem if it stays outside. There is two city far to intersection: Sao Paolo and Beijing. So that, we'll try to move them through Addis Ababa a bit, but try to don't change other distances so much.

For this:

Tokyo, Beijing and Hong Kong moved through New Delhi as 400kms. (200kms agreed yet as map mistake. If we make more correction, maps general infrastructure map collapses). For saving distance between Delhi and Beijing, Delhi has moved to the south, 300kms. Santiago and Sao Paolo moved through right side together 400kms. For saving distance between Panama and Bogota, these two moved to same direction 200kms.

Hong Kong, Tokyo, New Delhi and Beijing together moved through Addis Ababa 225 kms, for create a perfect intersection. After that, for saving distance to Addis Ababa, Delhi rotated aroung Beijing 400 kms till enough to save distance with Addis Ababa. For saving distance with far Asia, Honolulu moved through Anchorage-Tokyo Line 500kms. For saving distance with Honolulu, Anchorage moved through opposite direction of Honolulu, 400kms.

Addis Ababa is added as a perfect intersection point for whole world:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oOZkRb.png)

Addis Ababa, After Honolulu and Anchorage are moved.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Mdyvr1.png)

Lagos:

Lagos Istanbul 4.589 5.215
Lagos London 5.010 5.177 (4963)
A346 5:38 881
B744 6:03 891
Lagos Atlanta 9.406

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76byVr.png)

This time, nothing is changed and Logas is selected a point in intersection of Atlanta and Addis Ababa paths. There was a bit mistake seems remained but these are upper limits, it may be less than them . As we earlier said, to be inside is no problem, because everytime there is a possibility an aircraft runs better. On the other hand, there was only 4 reliable data and these was insufficient for create a reliable point. So perhaps, we may change that point soon. So that, Lagos is added as one of the eastern city in Africa:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y0lzP0.png)

Johannesburg

Johannesburg Lagos 4.530 4.885
5:40 862
Johannesburg Tel aviv 6.512 7.488 corrected as 7.166
8:37 869
Johannesburg Istanbul 7.471 8.039
9:17 866
Johannesburg London 9.086 9.252
10:10 910
Johannesburg Beijing 11.721 12.056
13:30 893
Johannesburg Hong Kong 10.686 11.212
12:20 893
12:50 889
Johannesburg Atlanta 13.597 13.452
14:45 912
Johannesburg NY 12.845 12.934
14:30 892
Johannesburg Sao 7.447  8.195 (7.430 , 8.959) will not affect to create point. (suspicious flights)
8:33 869
10:15 874

A point is selected for Johannesburg:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/4akGQJ.png)

This point is near or on the intersections of Addis, Lagos, Istanbul, Tel Aviv, London, Beijing, Atlanta and NY.

There is two handicaps remained: Hong Kong and Sao Paolo.

Sao Paolo will not changed yet, because here is some suspicious flights between those cities. We'll return it later.

Now, Hong Kong. On ball map, Hong Kong is in the south west of the Beijing. And the last calculations show Hong Kong not at there and must be wes side of Beijing.

So that,

Hong Kong, Beijing and Tokyo should be corrected, accordingly to themselves.

1- Hong Kong deleted.
2- Hong Kong re-placed to the map as follow:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/BL0y3v.png)

Hong Kong is moved to the intersection points of Johannesburg and Beijing, with a radical decision. This point is inside of all circles defines Hong Kong. Hong Kong is ok now.

New Delhi re-placed accordingly with Hong Kong.

Although it was a perfect intersection, Beijing moved to Johannesburg 200kms. Tokyo re placed.

Distances are generally overlaps. Also NY and London distances perfectly overlaps in Tokyo. There is only a gap with LA-Tokyo distance. On our map, it is 10.120 kms but in theorically it should be 9.000kms. Our value is 1.000kms more than aour calculations. I'm trying to solve this problem.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOVOdP.png)

Anyway. There is just 1.000kms difference remained.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/D7R7EZ.png)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lOyO7B.png)

For now, I'll do nothing for this issue.

As a result, Addis Ababa, Lagos and Johannesburg are added and cities in far Asia are corrected.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQ4QYj.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 23, 2018, 01:26:44 AM
I'll focus on the center next a few days, in the aim of solve the 1.000kms difference problem of Tokyo to LA. (9.000 vs 10.000kms). Meanwhile we should understand whats the real view of the center. Meanwhile we may add Australia as a hat of the earth.  ;D

In this regard, Honolulu may change accordingly the relationship with Australia. Jakarta and whole Indonesia will be added.

It seems only a feew jobs are remained.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 23, 2018, 04:35:14 AM
Sydney
Sydney New Delhi 10.447 11.211
12:20 909
Sydney Beijing 8.975 9.116
10:34 869
10:08 893
Sydney Tokyo 7.827 8.212
9:00 899
9:10 909
Sydney Honolulu 8.180 8.140 %3,5 time correctance: 7.936
9:25 869
9:01 896
9:10 890
Sydney LA 12.075 11.945 best 11.401
12:46 893
13:25 902
13:22 912
13:26 874
13:25 916
Sydney Vancouer 12.516  12.150 3,5% correctance: 11.800
Sydney Johannesburg 11.036

After a bit working, it is understood that "Johannesburg-Sydney" flight completely a hoax.

For be sure it is a hoax, I searched for an online ticket company and request that flight:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/9m5Ybo.png)

Site searched in over 1.000.000 flights and could not offer me a direct flight.

For you better understand the issue, I want to show you the sittuatin in diagram:

Here is all of the circles gets inside the city of Sydney, except Johannesburg.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/G9kZgv.png)

If we take a better look, there is some mentality mistakes of existance of this route. Because after tousends of examine, I never saw a difference like that.

If the distance was stay like this, it was meaningfull, and classic:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76bBnm.png)

We can correct this mistake by a bit rotate, bring closer, etc. But this difference tecnically impossible:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/G9kZgv.png)

This is a hoax. And flight site is saying me this flight doesn't exist, after I gave them my master card knowledges for buy it. ;)

So;

According to these determination, Sydneys placed in the intersection point of New Delhi and LA; on the other hand inside of the circles of Beijing and Tokyo. Tokyo distance was about 7.000 and we showed it as 5.200kms. This is fair enough for represant the maximum mistakes on the map.

I also searched for a flight between Sydney and Santiago for "buy".

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Plo7L5.png)

Site examined after 1.000.00 flights then offered me "no direct fly" but some indirect flights.

I wonder is it Sao Paolo and Johannesburg flight exist?

Site examined more than 677.000 flights and offered me a direct line from Sao to Johannesburg:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQ4V0J.png)

After that, I decided Sao to Johannesburg path is exist. I already placed them on the places that possible to travel between themselves:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1Jkp9B.png)

So who says to travel between these cities: "Santiago-Sydney or opposite; Sydney to Johannesburg or opposite" says lie. Clearly lie. Who says it, he is the biggest dishonest liar in the world.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 12:57:06 AM
Singapore (SIN)

We'll add this city for control the relationship with whole world  and the Ocenia.

Meanwhile, this will be work for understand did we placed Sydney correctly, or not.

Singapore   Sydney 6.302 6.886
7:34 910
Singapore   Tokyo 5.306 5.328 (3,5%less = 5.194)
6:00 888
Singapore   Hong Kong 2.569 2.922
3:17 890
Singapore   Beijing 4.495 5.089
5:45 885
Singapore   LA 14.118 13.133
14:24 912
9:30 909
Singapore   Johannesburg 8.666 9.286
10:17 903
Singapore   Istanbul 8.678 8.841
9:54 893
Singapore   London 10.895 11.104
12:20 893
Singapore   Helsinki 9.286 10.610
11:45 903
Singapore Delhi 4.163

Singapore is selected as an intersection points of 5 cities:

Sydney, Beijing, Istanbul, Los Angeles and and London.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/VrLqOR.png)

First we see that Sydney is well placed on the map and intersects with the whole map. So we need some corrections on other cities except these 5 ones.

For understand the directions well, we'll placed the "MAGNETIC POLE CENTER" on the map as an estimation. We know it is north of the Anchorage, Moscow, Beijing and whole USA.

For a better estimation I drawed these two lines, seem their opposite sides: Moscow to Anchorage, Beijing to a place a few east of NY.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/z0VPzD.png)

Now. there is magnetic center of the earth as N. There is two yellow lines are estimated new places for Tokyo and Hong Kong. These places overlaps with their magnetic places; Tokyo should be placed to east of the Beijing and with a few South; Hong Kong swhould be south of the Beijing with a few west. Beijing is well placed so these two cities are turned around Beijing till find the perfect point for them:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/W7ZMm2.png)

These points about overlaps with new point of Singapore; meanwhile corrects their real places.

Now we should correct the place of New Delhi accordingly to them:

Hong Kong moved about 1.700kms and there is distance New Delhi's circle to intersection 1.400 kms. So we'll move New Delhi through Singapore 1.400kms. This will correct both distances with Tokyo, Hong Kong and Singapore.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb4VVj.png)

New Delhi problem is solved. Now there is a problem occurred between New Delhi and Addis Ababa about 1.460kms. This distance is same with the difference Addis Ababa circle to Singapore. So if we move Addis Ababa through New Deldi 1.460kms, problem will be solved:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/D7RNQv.png)

Now we solved all the problems  except Johannesburg and related problems:

First I draw a circle around  Lagos for stay connected the distance with Johannesburg. Now Johannesburg will move on this circle through New Delhi 1.460kms. This move mistakes no other correction on whole map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/BL0pJp.png)

Now we should make an error distribution for these cities: Johannesburg, New Delhi, Addis and Lagos.

We must move Johannesburg to Singapore, 3.000kms more. And as an error distribution, Addis to New Delhi 2.000, and New Delhi to Singapore 1.000kms will be moved. The changing with Lagos will be measured and Lagos will moved accordignly with its partners. Lets do it:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/VrL4yB.png)

Now Johannesburg perfectly overlaps with Singapore; there is 1.350 kms difference occurred with Lagos; New Delhi moved through Hong Kong about 500kms.

It doesn't seem a problem with whole map, except Lagos side.

Lagos was already a weak point, only had 4-5 connections to other cities. Lagos re placed, All mistakes are corrected.

As a result;

- Magnetic center of the earth is added.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/dO2YGV.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 03:18:16 AM
"Hot line" is added. Center of the earth is re-placed.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76b9XY.png)

We have 14 circles represant the equator line. 9/14 cities are perfectly overlaps with this line. The remain ones nedd to be examined:

Sao Paolo and Santiago: Sao Paolo seems out of the circle (southern side). Although it seems closer to the "hot line", at least it is out with hot line with Santiago. No correction is made.
Sydney: Seems in the southern side of the hot line. Although it seems closer to the hot line, but we don't know real hot line on globe map been true or not. So this place is fair enough.
New Delhi: Our map shows Delhi should be placed more north*. This is relevant with real India is greater than shown in the ball map. So actually this place is perfectly true.
Addis Ababa and Johannesburg: Johannesburg seems on the hot line and Addis Ababa seems in the Northern semicircle. This should be corrected. As I examined that, Luanda line may be accepted as hot line. It is about 1.000 kms North of the Johannesburg. So Johannesburg, with Addis Ababa moved through South 1.000kms as an "hot line correction"

(https://i.hizliresim.com/jy20nL.png)

*corrected
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 03:26:38 AM
After all corrections, unusual circles and lines are deleted. As a newly, Singapore, center of the earth and hot line remained as new. Hot line and center will be visible in whole working hereafter:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb4kWj.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 04:32:05 AM
Jakarta

Jakarta   Istanbul 9.456 10.106
11:19 893
Jakarta   London 11.734 12.279
13:45 893
Jakarta   Beijing 5.243 5.731
6:38 864
Jakarta   Tokyo 5.791 6.080
6:44 903
Jakarta   Hong Kong 3.263 3.938
4:45 862
4:25 856
Jakarta   Sydney 5.525 5.782
6:42 863
Jakarta   Singapore 883 997
1:18 734
1:30 772
1:11 743

Placing the Jakarta:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOANbN.png)

5/7 cities are corrected. Only 2 remained. Singapore moved 157kms and Sydney 1.547kms moved through Jakarta. Whole distances are corrected:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MdyzG6.png)

Control:

If you constantly go from Sydney to North, you pass a direction near to Tokyo. Tokyo a bit remains west of you. This is ok. If you constantly go from Jakarta to constantly North, you pass somewhere near Singapore, Hong Kong and Beijing. There seem a bit mistake.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3EaXbA.png)

A line is drawn between N and Jakarta.
Singapore should be 400kms west. Its in the line. Singapore moved 400kms to the west.
Hong Kong should be 700kms east of the line. Its now 330kms. Hong Kong moved 370kms to the east.
Beijing is 700kms east of the line. On map, on the line. But we know that China in fact is bigger than shown in the map. So it will not changed. Beijing is in the north of Jakarta.

Sydney is moved to the south west as 500kms.

After Jakarta is placed, Singapore, Hong Kong and Sydney corrected.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/W7EA24.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 24, 2018, 04:47:18 AM
Again, I am not so sure what to make of all this. What are the key findings, what differs from what I've been taught?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 05:22:18 AM
Manila

Manila Jakarta 2.791 3.365
3:57 852
Manila Singapore 2.378 2.873
3:25 841
Manila Hong Kong 1146 1.393
1:48 774
Manila Beijing 2.880 3.284
3:51 853
Manila Tokyo 3000 3.278 corrected as 2.861
3:49 852
3:40 901
Manila Sydney 6.271 6.494
7:31 864
Manila Istanbul 9.147 9.600 Corrected as 8.623
10:45 893
Manila LA 11.753 10.746 corrected as 11.252
12:02 893
Manila Honolulu 8.530 7.821
9:00 869

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oO9PLm.png)

Manila is perfectly matched with 8/9 cities. Also LA, Istanbul and Honolulu overlapped!

Only Sydney could not be overlapped. Qantas airlines running in this path. But we know that Qantas (satanq) airlines going imaginary flights so that they are going on wrong path to Manila. So that, we don't correct this mistake. But it is already in the circle. This means, according to distance to Sydney, if aircrafts are going wrong and making the path longer, this place is possible.

No correction requered. Idiot Aussies goes further (about 2 times more). This is their problem.  8)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Z9JNAV.png)

Manila is placed perfectly.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vr6pAv.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 05:25:10 AM
Again, I am not so sure what to make of all this. What are the key findings, what differs from what I've been taught?

Good.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 05:54:31 AM
Port Moresby

Port Moresby   Manila 3.934
Port Moresby   Singapore 4.941
Port Moresby   Hong Kong 5.069 5.504
6:20 869
Port Moresby   Tokyo 5.084
Port Moresby   Sydney 2.758 2.961
3:32 838

Port Moresby is added as a point near to intersections and inside all of circles. Sydney moved through south 1.000kms, because of Qantas pilots could not dishonest so much like that. They only make an understandable mistake.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J574A.png)

As we see that this time Sydney passangers are lucky. Because they fly with Air Niugini this time. Honored Air Niugini doesen't make your dreams to reality but doesn't bamboozle you!

Port Moresby is about in the north of the Sydney but our map in about east. How is it possible?

Lets control it by a magnetic map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnBy7a.png)

Port Moresby is in the "West-North-West".

In our map Port Moresby is in the "West-North-West". Corrected. Gang is deceiving Aussies in the matter of Port Moresby.

(Port Moresby actually is in the North but your compasses show them in the west. Don't trust compass but the GANG).  ;D

Anyway.

After Port Moresby is added its true place; West North-west of the Sydney!

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vr6pby.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Antonio on January 24, 2018, 06:53:23 AM
It would be interesting to add Auckland too, it's near Sydney
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: SpaceCadet on January 24, 2018, 07:42:44 AM
Quote

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vr6pby.png)

I like your doggedness in this matter. You seem to be the only flat earther doing some research outside of youtube.

Help me understand. Is this, according to your calculations, and actual representation of the factual positions of these cities? Or are you expecting to still make more modifications as you make more calculations?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 11:16:45 AM
It would be interesting to add Auckland too, it's near Sydney

Hard part is already done. Whole cities are easier.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Antonio on January 24, 2018, 11:03:43 PM
You really should look at Auckland. It has strong connections with South America, Asia North America and Australia. It may help to locate Australia.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 11:20:44 PM
Cairns (North West* Australia)

Cairns Sydney 1974 2.203
2:42 836
2:35 832
Cairns Port Moresby 843 822
1:06 747
Cairns Singapore 5.013 5.741 corrected as 5.351
6:35 872 5.741
Cairns Hong Kong 5.575 6.566 corrected as 5.676
7:36 864
Cairns Tokyo 5.889 6.384 *proved 6.384
7:00 912

(https://i.hizliresim.com/m253k0.png)

3 cities are overlaps in one point but the most important one  doesn't overlap. Port Moresby should move through intersection point. Other distances are controlled, no problem occurs. Manila-Port Moresby distance is 1.000kms longer than shown in our map. So it is fair enough the move it 900kms south.

Port Moresby moved through intersection point 890kms and Cairns is added perfectly as  the intersection point of 5 cities:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3EP7z0.png)

There is two points getting our interest:

1- Cairns is in the "west-south west" of the sydney. On ball map, it is in about North.
2- Port Moresby is in the directly west of Sydney. In ball map, it is about directly North.

Remember why this mistake occurred in google and other ball headed maps:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnBy7a.png)

They are deceiving people by this way. Dishonored ones!

Anyway, this is not aour job.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/kOJbMJ.png)

Cairns is aded as a "perfect and strong point", with a correction to Port Moresby.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 24, 2018, 11:22:04 PM
You really should look at Auckland. It has strong connections with South America, Asia North America and Australia. It may help to locate Australia.

I'll already do it. But as a methodically it is not ready to be done yet. In this method, I should become closer it for make it. How many connected points be more, in this case it will be a stronger point.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Antonio on January 24, 2018, 11:40:09 PM
I'm sorry, but i don't understand your sentences. Anyways, do you agree that you need about  3h30 to get from Auckland to Sydney ?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 12:23:27 AM
Denpasar (Indonesia)

I know most of Indonesians wonder where is Denpasar?

Google, yandex, NASA and whole others are deceiving you, Indonesians but I'm not doing this. Because I have no advantage for this.

Denpasar   Port Moresy 3.523 3.708 corrected as 2.750
4:23 846
Denpasar   Cairns 3.437 3.665 corrected as 3.395
4:20 846
Denpasar   Sydney 4.628 4.751
5:39 A333 862 4.780
5:31 B738 856 4.722
Denpasar   Jakarta 983 1.011
1:21 A320 765
1:18 B738 760
Denpasar   Singapore 1.674 1.994 corrected as 1.730
2:24 A333 818
2:22 B77w 855
Denpasar   Manila 2.700 3.059 corrected as 2.658
A320 3:43 843
Denpasar   Hong Kong 3.460 3.983 corrected as 3.277
A333 4:29 862
B77w 4:38 885
Denpasar   Beijing 5.437 5.506
6:12 B773 888
Denpasar   Tokyo 5.617 5.674
6:34 A330 864

Placing Bali's capital; Denpasar:

There is an aerodrome traffic density in marked place.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76Pq0W.png)

This place is inside of 7/9 measurements and two are near but out of it: Sydney and Jakarta.

There is 646 kms mistake.

So that,

Sydney group (Sydney, Port Moresby and cairns) moved through intersection 323 kms as a block; and Jakarta moved through intersection point 323 kms. For saving distance with Singapore, Jakarta turned around Singapore. Singapore doesn't changed because it is well placed. Also Tokyo and Beijing perfectly overlaps with this point:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/PlBr4O.png)

As a result, Denpasar is added as another perfect point in the map. We may say easily that, it is definitely stay this point!

(https://i.hizliresim.com/9mEdXN.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 12:37:35 AM
Perth

Surely, where is Perth. This city works for us understand the real shape, size and true direction of Australia. We are making free the Aussies from the lies of  NASA, google, yandex and whole deceivers.

After listen a song, I'll do that:

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 02:36:16 AM
Perth

Perth Cairns 3.435 3.749
A320 4:24 852
Perth Sydney 3.282 3.393
4:04 A320 852
3:56 A332 862
3:55 B738 856
Perth Denpasar 2.584
B739 3:14
A320 3:20
Qantas flights are ignored from now on; because I believe about them provide wrong knowledge.
Perth Jakarta 3.032 3.395
3:58 B738 856
Perth Singapore 3.915 4.093
4:40 A320 852
4:55 B738 856

Perth Hong Kong 6.043 6.453
A333 7:20 864
A359 7:19 898

Placing the Perth:

Sydney is moved accordingly saving distance with Tokyo; about 2.000kms to south. Cairns re placed. Others don't changed and Perth is placed with a great success!

(https://i.hizliresim.com/qGRW0q.png)

Perth is worked for us understand the true shape and direction of Australia and true place of Sydney. It seems more meaningfull now.

Now we are doing another operation now. Its now or never: Correctance with distance Sydney-LA; and Sydney Honolulu.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lO9bzJ.png)

1- This group selected and turned all together around N (center) till our error limit for New Delhi finishes and that part overlaps:

2- Now we arrived the perfect match in African side. Other side a bit corrected:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQ6OpJ.png)

The right green circle represant the distance between Delhi and Addis Ababa. And this distance is corrected now. On the other hand, we need more 2.200kms rotate for correcting the Sydney-LA/Honolulu distances.

Drawing circles from New Delhi to Beijing, Hong Kong and Singapore.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/NZWOAL.png)

3- Now. We are holding New Delhi on its place, because it is already corrected. These two marked circles represant distances from New Delhi to Beijing and Singapore. We have a right to touch this circles until we turn around N (center. Lets do it.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76Pyqa.png)

The gap of Singapore is filled but Beijing is remain. Now we'll move  same cities a more, accordingly saving distance to New Delhi.

This time we are rotating them around N again.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nO2Jpl.png)

Now. 589 kms remained. We used cities till Singapore, Beijing and Hong Kong line.

Now we'll hold these 3 cities as stable, and try to move remained Ocenian cities:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/vjRJ2z.png)

Touched.

Now all distances are corrected with Sydney from Africa and Europe to Asia and North America.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/6J8yjl.png)

Perth is added with some corrections on whole map.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 03:44:10 AM
Auckland

There is somewhere is known as Auckland. (I hope it really exists)   ;D

Aukland LA 10.500 9.982 10.859
10:11 Air New Zealand B77w (suspicious) 894 9.104 (??)
11:56 American Airlines B789 (more reliable) 910 10.859

Aukland Perth 5.343 5.298
5:43 Air NZ A343 883
6:18 HiFly A343  883
5:49 B789 AirNZ 901
6:11 A332 Qantas cancelled, possible hoax.

Aukland Sydney 2161 2.153
A332 2:45 Qantas Qantas so ignored/deleted. Possible hoax.
A320 2:39 Jetstar 832 2.205
A343 2:22 Air NZ 860 2.035
B744 singapore airlines 2:30 (trusted) 870 2.175
B789 Lan airlines 2:30 (trusted) 879 2.198
B789 3:10 Air NZ irrevelant by others. Ignored/deleted.

Aukland Beijing 10.438 11.512 corrected as 8.639
12:39 Chinian Airlines (Trusted) B789 910

Aukland Tokyo 8.851 9.046 corrected as 6.767
10:14 Air NZ (half trusted) B772 884

Aukland Honolulu 7.097 7.278
A332 8:32 866
B772 8:08 881

Aukland Vancouer 11.373 11.193 corrected as 10.204
12:38 Air NZ B772 886 (suspicious)

Distance of 3 cities  corrected and city is selected a perfect intersections of the distance as following cities: Sydney, Perth, Honolulu.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnBDLZ.png)

Auckland is placed. Deceitfull routes did not get considered.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JrEjY.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 04:28:22 AM
For the aim of understanding the shape of the continents, Buenos Aires and the end point Bahia Thetis added as an estimation (values are taken from google, not reliable). This will save our times.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JrEQA.png)

As a result, Bahia Thetis and Buenos Aires are added. Their color chosed as a different color represant their places are not reliable and taken from google. (possible hoax)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 04:29:06 AM
We'll focus on the center, now on. What are they hiding from us in the center of the earth? Time to understand it.

Firstly we understood that first 5 latitudes aren't exist! Now we'll reveal the true shape of the center.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 04:37:59 AM
The main challenge is:

If I true, some latitudes are hoax and first some latitudes actually are absent; the centered cities should be closer themselves. And if I'm wrong, then centered cities should be further!

Which one of these theories will be proven?

(https://i.hizliresim.com/YgJQjE.png)

Are they right? Is there really 7.00kms distance between Anchorage and Moscow???  ???

Or am I right and may we go from Moscow to Anchorage only passina about 3.300 kms? ???

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOyrkZ.png)

Which one of us trying to deceive people?

Am I? Or NASA, google, yandex, Qantas, Air South Africa, ISIS, PKK, FETÖ, and all badness all together?

We'll focus on solving this problem, soon...

Not now, but soon...

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 25, 2018, 04:56:21 AM
Well, yes, I have been under the impression it would be ~7 000 kilometers from Moscow to Anchorage.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 05:00:53 AM
Well, yes, I have been under the impression it would be ~7 000 kilometers from Moscow to Anchorage.

Did you added yourself to the evil side, by completely your freewill?   :)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 25, 2018, 05:05:41 AM
It could well be Darth Vader has me by the balls!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 05:45:48 AM
Ottowa

Ottowa is added in the aim of targeting the center:

Ottowa NY  530 578
0:51 680
Ottowa Vancouer 3.556 3.578 corrected as 3.020
A321 4:12 852
Ottowa Puerto Vallarta 3.976 3.795 with 3,5%correctance: 3.662
4:26 B738 856
Ottowa London 5.352 5.277 time correctance: 5.092 - 4.374
B763 6:06 865
Ottowa Boston 498 703 time correctance: 678
1:02 680

Boston rotated around NY till enough it becomes to the North.

Ottawa added as a perfect point in intersection of whole distances:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/z0YGqY.png)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/az0npz.png)

It seems Ottawa is in the west of Boston. Interesting.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 25, 2018, 11:16:45 AM
(http://i63.tinypic.com/wstpib.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 12:41:42 PM
(http://i63.tinypic.com/wstpib.png)

7.011,07

reverse is same numbers. Oh what a satanic job. Proved. It is imaginary. Even satanic imaginary.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 25, 2018, 01:09:16 PM
Move ends of measuring lines accidentally for one pixel, and you will get different digits.
Error will still be within city, only moved from one suburb to another.
What is "satanic" in it?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 10:01:12 PM
Move ends of measuring lines accidentally for one pixel, and you will get different digits.
Error will still be within city, only moved from one suburb to another.
What is "satanic" in it?

remove comma from 7011,07 and read it from reverse.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: rvlvr on January 25, 2018, 10:12:24 PM
"Tollot"?

That's plural of "dumbass" in Finnish.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 10:22:37 PM
Halifax

Halifax   London 4.589 4.480 with 3,5% time correctance 4.323
5:10 B763 867
Halifax   Boston 665 778 with time correctance 3,5% 750
1:04 729
Halifax   NY 987 1227 with 3,5% 1184 corrected as 1121
1:35 775
Halifax   Ottawa 956 1.063 time correctance 1.026 corrected as 750
1:22 778

Placing Khalifax.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rORnLP.png)

Halifax is placed with a perfect estimation, full overlaps with whole distances.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y0Rg29.png)

Halifax is added in the project of "occupy center, destroy evil !"
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 25, 2018, 11:38:53 PM
Edmonton

Edmonton for occopy the center.

Edmonton   Halifax 3.687 3.737 with time correctance: 3.605 corrected as 1.875
4:25 B737 846 3436
Edmonton   Vancouer 809 987  with time: 952
B738 1:20 747
A319 1:19 743
Edmonton   Ottawa 2.852 3.012 with time 2.907 corrected as 2.247
B737 3:37 838
E190(A319) 3:33 843
Edmonton   LA 2.437 2.554; time> 2.464
2:57 A319 840
3:06 B737 830
2:57 B748 885
Edmonton   Puerto Vallarta  3.702 4.024 time > 3.882
B738 4:31 856
B332 4:51 862
Edmonton   Denver 1.643 1.958 time >1.889
E75L 2:25 810

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76P5N5.png)

There is a few difference with Halifax and Ottawa flights. But its overlaps with others and stays the point of North East of Vancouer. It normally was like that. So that place is selected, distances come from Halifax and Ottawa corrected.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/XPJmPk.png)

The number of difference Ottawa was normal; from 2.800kms to 2.200kms; but Halifax was not normal; 3.600 to 1.800kms. So the place of Halifax will be changed by new knowledge gathered by placing the Edmonton.

Halifax deleted and re drawn its circles with additional Edmonton.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1Jrq6N.png)

Nothing is changed. There is still a perfect intersection for Halifax and only Edmonton is incompatible. I decided the pilots are running wrong between Halifax and Edmonton. It seems Canadian pilots are doing some logical mistakes between Halifax and Edmonton. There is a good route for going Halifax from Edmonton: Use the path goes to Boston or NY, it is just a bit north. The problem is; Edmonton pilots are not running to NY or Boston. So doesn't aware the path to Boston.  :o

(https://i.hizliresim.com/m25mN4.png)

There is numerous indirect flight. Is it because nobody in Edmonton interest to direct fly to New York ? Or it is because pilots don't know the true path!  ???

Anyway, it is their problem.  8)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 26, 2018, 12:17:46 AM
Winnipeg

Winnipeg   Edmonton 1.189 1150 with time correctance 3,5%: 1110.
1:25 B752 790
1:35 B737 775
1:26 B722 770
Winnipeg   Ottawa 1.691 1.717 with time correctance > 1.657 corrected as 1.155
B736/737 2:14 800
CRJ9 2:02 810
Winnipeg   Vancouer 1.867 1.935 with time: 1.867
2:33 B737 814
2:25 A320 819
2:06 B752 833
Winnipeg   Denver 1.261 1.541 with time : 1.487
1:57 CRJ9 790
Winnipeg   Puerto Vallarta 3.330 3.847 time correctance > 3.712 corrected as 3.512
B738 (Sunwig) 4:31 856
B738 (Air transat) 4:36
B738 (westjet) 4:22

Placing the Winnipeg:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y0RgYL.png)

Winnipeg is perfectly placed with 4/5 cities. Ottawa is in the right side. We lived this problem second time for America. We know that Canadian pilots are having problem when running west to the east, and east to the west. So this place is true. Distance with Ottawa is updated.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/jyjmEm.png)

Winnipeg is added for the Glory of the God.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 26, 2018, 03:33:24 AM
Move ends of measuring lines accidentally for one pixel, and you will get different digits.
Error will still be within city, only moved from one suburb to another.
What is "satanic" in it?

remove comma from 7011,07 and read it from reverse.

I know what you mean. :-)
World is full of such numbers.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 26, 2018, 04:24:16 AM
Toronto

Toronto for the corrections of the whole Canada and whole world.

Toronto   Edmonton
Toronto   Ottawa
Toronto   Vancouer
Toronto   Denver
Toronto   Puerto Vallarta
Toronto   Winnipeg
Toronto   Halifax
Toronto   LA
Toronto   Puerto Vallarta
Toronto   Mexico
Toronto   KEF
Toronto   London
Toronto   Istanbul
Toronto   Lisbon
Toronto   Tel Aviv
Toronto   Delhi
Toronto   Hong Kong
Toronto   Beijing
Toronto   Tokyo
Toronto   Manila
Toronto   Honolulu
Toronto   NY
Toronto   Denver
Toronto   Atlanta

There is connection with 25 cities! This is a kind of record. For an easy work, I'll choose spesific ones. Nearest and furthest ones.

Toronto   LA 3.498 3.834 3.700 corrected as 3.389
4:30 852
Toronto   London 5.713 5.700 5.500 Corrected as 4.610
6:20 900
Toronto   Istanbul 8.208 7.888 7.612 corrected as 6.268
8:50 893
Toronto   Hong Kong 12.562 12.992 12.537 corrected as 9.777
14:30 896
Toronto   Beijing 10.573 11.208 10.815 corrected as 7.686
12:19 910
Toronto   NY 589 957 923 Corrected as 589
1:22 700
Toronto   Denver 2.113 2.149 2074 corrected as 2.190
2:35 832
Toronto   Ottawa 357
Toronto   Atlanta 1100 Corrected as 862
Toronto   Edmonton 2.693
Toronto   Winnipeg 1.500
Toronto   Halifax 1.200
Toronto   Boston 693

I chosed 13 of all cities.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Z9JGPZ.png)

Perfectly matched. I know you did not understand anything. The important thing is the selected place must stay inside all of circles, and should be stay in about intersection of nearest cities. I'll chose a place like this:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JrzXj.png)

Selected place corrects whole cities. I'll correct the further distances and find out the exact values.

First I'll type google values. If it stays outside, correct it to true value by shrinking the circle on the shape. If it stays inside, I'll correct it by using flight times.

Toronto   Vancouer 3357 corrected as same!
Toronto   Denver 2.160 corrected as same!
Toronto   Puerto Vallarta 3.504 corrected as same!
Toronto   Mexico City 3262 corrected as same!
Toronto   Rejkavik 4.195 corrected as 2.863! (support to the theory of center is smaller)
Toronto   Lisbon 5.726 corrected as 4.909
Toronto   Tel Aviv 9.268 corrected as 7.676
Toronto   Delhi 11.628 corrected as same!
Toronto   Addis Ababa 11.476 corrected as 10.431
Toronto   Tokyo 10.346 corrected as 7.550 !
Toronto   Manila 13.212 corrected as 10.316
Toronto   Honolulu 7.485 corrected as 6.126

Intersection of whole cities:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/dO01ZL.png)

As we see that, there is a perfect intersection and all distances are true considering this place.

As a result;

Toronto is added as a perfect center of the earth that proves the whole map. Thanks Toronto!

Buenos Aires 8960 corrected as 6.326
Santiago/Chile 8618 corrected as 6.099

Proves.

As a result Toronto is added and colored as green to show it proves whole map from Africa to Europe; from Asia to Ocenia, from South America to North America, shortly whole world. It will stay always green because it proves whole cities in our map. This city definitely stays here.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/9mEnmN.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 26, 2018, 05:05:42 AM
Calgary

We need one more strong point for attack the center.

First I'll try to arrive it with distances in the ball map. If I can't success, I'll try to use flight times.

Calgary   Vancouer   674
Calgary   Edmonton   279
Calgary   Winnipeg   1202
Calgary   Toronto   2708
Calgary   NY   3279
Calgary   LA   1934
Calgary   Honolulu   5020
Calgary   Beijing   8752
Calgary   London   7021

(https://i.hizliresim.com/nO2zVV.png)

There is a perfect intersection with whole cities, except LA and Edmonton. Either LA, or Edmonton, or both distances are wrong in google map. We can't understand which one is true, before don't control the distances by air traffic.

So I'll consider only 4 nearest routes by air traffic. Then we'll understand which value that the google saying lie about it.

Calgary   LA   1934 2.287 3,5% 2206
B738 2:49 814
A320 2:47 819

Calgary   Edmonton   279 339 3,5% 327
B736 0:43 562
A320 0:29 569

Calgary   Winnipeg   1202 1.239 3,5% 1.195
B738 1:45 788
B721 1:25 775

Calgary   Vancouer   674  887 with 3,5% 856
B737 1:16 700
A319/320 1:16 700

Now connection is established:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/QVWDp3.png)

Corrected distances:
Calgary   LA   1934 corrected as  2.064
Calgary   Edmonton   279 same!
Calgary   Winnipeg   1202 corrected as 1.088
Calgary   Vancouer   674 corrected as 796

As a result,

(https://i.hizliresim.com/G956Z2.png)

Calgary will let us to attack the center.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 26, 2018, 05:24:32 AM
Yellowknife

Yellowknife is added in the project of direct attacking the center.

We'll try first google distances. If we arrive a reliable result, it is ok. If we could not to do; so use the flight times as a joker.  8)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBYq1j.png)

Yellowknife   Toronto   3067   corrected as   same
Yellowknife   Calgary   1267   corrected as   same
Yellowknife   Vancouer   1563   corrected as   1655
Yellowknife   Edmonton   992   corrected as   same

(https://i.hizliresim.com/NZWa0Q.png)

As a result, yellowknife is added in the aimn of attack the center. It is colored as magentha for show using datas only taken from ball/fake map. We may correct it, if requered. But it seems fair enough.

I'm using ball map values but only if a flight exist. Because if a flight exist, that path acceptable as corrected. At least it can't be a lot of wrong. (This method doesn't work in China, Russia and India)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: dumbass on January 27, 2018, 01:58:43 AM
I am following this project with great interest.
I do however have some questions.
You have explained the different distances between Google and self calculated between 2 chinese cities and 2 Russian cities. They both have almost same flight time although one distance is half the others.
Surely you cannot apply the same flight conditions to 2 different flights? Should one not calculate the averages for each flight separately?
Here are some factors as I see it:
The time for takeoff to cruising speed will be the same for all flights.
The time from slowing down to landing will be the same for all flights.
That will mean that the longer the flight the longer the plane can fly at its average speed and therefor the calculation would show a higher average than on a shorter flight where the plane flies for a shorter time at its average speed. the times of take off and landing on a 10000km flight will have a tiny impact on the average speed compared to that on a 500km flight?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 27, 2018, 10:55:50 AM
I am following this project with great interest.
I do however have some questions.
You have explained the different distances between Google and self calculated between 2 chinese cities and 2 Russian cities. They both have almost same flight time although one distance is half the others.
Surely you cannot apply the same flight conditions to 2 different flights? Should one not calculate the averages for each flight separately?
Here are some factors as I see it:
The time for takeoff to cruising speed will be the same for all flights.
The time from slowing down to landing will be the same for all flights.
That will mean that the longer the flight the longer the plane can fly at its average speed and therefor the calculation would show a higher average than on a shorter flight where the plane flies for a shorter time at its average speed. the times of take off and landing on a 10000km flight will have a tiny impact on the average speed compared to that on a 500km flight?

The flights have same average distances are compared the flights have same average distances. The chart in first page is created for this aim. Please follow more carefully. The average speed for per aircraft are calculated for per distance. Thanks for your interest.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6YG5r.png)

Working will be continued in monday.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 27, 2018, 01:08:55 PM
Singapore is 1.35 degrees north.
Easily proven with sun directly over head on Mar 24 and Sep 19.

Sao Paulo is 23.4 degrees south.
Easily proven with Sun directly over head for winter solstice.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 11:34:40 AM
Singapore is 1.35 degrees north.
Easily proven with sun directly over head on Mar 24 and Sep 19.

Sao Paulo is 23.4 degrees south.
Easily proven with Sun directly over head for winter solstice.

can you be more clear?

Another little thing: Where did you see a "degree" in our map and talk about degrees.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: Macarios on January 28, 2018, 12:25:00 PM
Singapore is 1.35 degrees north.
Easily proven with sun directly over head on Mar 24 and Sep 19.

Sao Paulo is 23.4 degrees south.
Easily proven with Sun directly over head for winter solstice.

can you be more clear?

Another little thing: Where did you see a "degree" in our map and talk about degrees.

If Equator is at distance of 90 degrees from North pole,
it means Singapore is 88.65 degrees from there,
and Sao Paulo is 113.4 degrees from there.
Therefore, Sao Paulo should be placed 28% farther from North Pole than Singapore.

When I pasted your map into drawing program and drew circle around North pole through Singapore,
Sao Paulo was just about 6% farther than Singapore, instead of 28%.

Hope this could help in your work.

I respect your effort to do something concretely, instead of just theoretizing.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 09:37:11 PM
Singapore is 1.35 degrees north.
Easily proven with sun directly over head on Mar 24 and Sep 19.

Sao Paulo is 23.4 degrees south.
Easily proven with Sun directly over head for winter solstice.

can you be more clear?

Another little thing: Where did you see a "degree" in our map and talk about degrees.

If Equator is at distance of 90 degrees from North pole,
it means Singapore is 88.65 degrees from there,
and Sao Paulo is 113.4 degrees from there.
Therefore, Sao Paulo should be placed 28% farther from North Pole than Singapore.

When I pasted your map into drawing program and drew circle around North pole through Singapore,
Sao Paulo was just about 6% farther than Singapore, instead of 28%.

Hope this could help in your work.

I respect your effort to do something concretely, instead of just theoretizing.

Ok, I understand. The whole thing is a country stay north, if actually in the north; or stay south if stays south. I aware some cities are closer or further to "hot line" than shown in the ball map and I explained those differences:

"Hot line" is added. Center of the earth is re-placed.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/76b9XY.png)

We have 14 circles represant the equator line. 9/14 cities are perfectly overlaps with this line. The remain ones nedd to be examined:

Sao Paolo and Santiago: Sao Paolo seems out of the circle (southern side). Although it seems closer to the "hot line", at least it is out with hot line with Santiago. No correction is made.
Sydney: Seems in the southern side of the hot line. Although it seems closer to the hot line, but we don't know real hot line on globe map been true or not. So this place is fair enough.
New Delhi: Our map shows Delhi should be placed more north*. This is relevant with real India is greater than shown in the ball map. So actually this place is perfectly true.
Addis Ababa and Johannesburg: Johannesburg seems on the hot line and Addis Ababa seems in the Northern semicircle. This should be corrected. As I examined that, Luanda line may be accepted as hot line. It is about 1.000 kms North of the Johannesburg. So Johannesburg, with Addis Ababa moved through South 1.000kms as an "hot line correction"

(https://i.hizliresim.com/jy20nL.png)

*corrected

Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 10:29:07 PM
Whitehorse
Whitehorse   Yellowknife   1100
Whitehorse   Edmonton   1515
Whitehorse   Calgary   1679
Whitehorse   Vancouer   1476

Baker Lake
Baker Lake   Winnipeg   1603
Baker Lake   Yellowknife   932

Iqaluit
Iqaluit   Ottawa   2091
Iqaluit   Rankin Inlet   1176 (Baker Lake)

Take care where is Iqaluit?

Lets control. Are Whitehorse, yellowknife, Baker Lake and Iqalit in the same line?

(http://i68.tinypic.com/293zvgg.jpg)

It is corrected. We're still on true way.

Control us what we done:

According to our map; Rejkavik is so far to the north, according to Iqaluit. And Iqalit is a near place to North.  Ok. Lets look to ball map:

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2zi9fmw.jpg)

According to our map, Iqaluit stays about "1.400kms north" of the Rejkavik.

And according to google, Iqaluit stays on same latitude with Rejkavik. How interesting.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/r104s9.jpg)

So according to our map, there will be much more differences between these cities. Becauxe Iqaluit stays in the North and should be colder than Rejkavik. But according to google map, they both sea side cities stay in same latitude. So their air conditions should be about same, if we consider ball/google map.

Lets look the weather.

Today, my city Istanbul is 6 degrees celcius. It is a January cold.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/641ab5.jpg)

Rejkavik:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2vim83p.jpg)

In Rejkavik, today the weather is 0 degrees. It maybe snow, or not. Yeah, Rejkavik is colder than Istanbul.

Ok, lets look to the other one.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/n4cks9.jpg)

Oh, this is a deadly cold man. They can't be on the same latitude!

Ok. Google map is disproven. I'll open a topic about it. Ahahahah. Google how are they stay on same latitude? Cmon, don't say lie to people!
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 10:50:04 PM
I respect your effort to do something concretely, instead of just theoretizing.

Now. Please prove Rejkavik and Iqaluit why can't be on the same latitude and disprove google. Go, lets do it. If you are sincere, honest man, you must do that.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 11:01:57 PM
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2m2aut0.jpg)

Added Whitehorse, Baker Lake and Iqaluit as north of the Canada. Disproven google map claims Iqaluit and Rejkavik on same latitude by comparing air temperatures. They are obviously different.

Proven our map as world's most accurate, reliable map.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 11:19:31 PM
Anchorage has moved to the south as 500kms, because of the air conditions.  8)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2i913jn.jpg)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 11:21:44 PM
We have finished the North of Canada. Remained places have insufficient connections to the others. So that we will add remained North Canada by estimation when the Russian side has finished.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: dumbass on January 28, 2018, 11:25:13 PM
I am following this project with great interest.
I do however have some questions.
You have explained the different distances between Google and self calculated between 2 chinese cities and 2 Russian cities. They both have almost same flight time although one distance is half the others.
Surely you cannot apply the same flight conditions to 2 different flights? Should one not calculate the averages for each flight separately?
Here are some factors as I see it:
The time for takeoff to cruising speed will be the same for all flights.
The time from slowing down to landing will be the same for all flights.
That will mean that the longer the flight the longer the plane can fly at its average speed and therefor the calculation would show a higher average than on a shorter flight where the plane flies for a shorter time at its average speed. the times of take off and landing on a 10000km flight will have a tiny impact on the average speed compared to that on a 500km flight?

The flights have same average distances are compared the flights have same average distances. The chart in first page is created for this aim. Please follow more carefully. The average speed for per aircraft are calculated for per distance. Thanks for your interest.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6YG5r.png)

Working will be continued in monday.
ok I dont quite get it but never mind Im sure I will later on.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 11:39:45 PM
I am following this project with great interest.
I do however have some questions.
You have explained the different distances between Google and self calculated between 2 chinese cities and 2 Russian cities. They both have almost same flight time although one distance is half the others.
Surely you cannot apply the same flight conditions to 2 different flights? Should one not calculate the averages for each flight separately?
Here are some factors as I see it:
The time for takeoff to cruising speed will be the same for all flights.
The time from slowing down to landing will be the same for all flights.
That will mean that the longer the flight the longer the plane can fly at its average speed and therefor the calculation would show a higher average than on a shorter flight where the plane flies for a shorter time at its average speed. the times of take off and landing on a 10000km flight will have a tiny impact on the average speed compared to that on a 500km flight?

The flights have same average distances are compared the flights have same average distances. The chart in first page is created for this aim. Please follow more carefully. The average speed for per aircraft are calculated for per distance. Thanks for your interest.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6YG5r.png)

Working will be continued in monday.
ok I dont quite get it but never mind Im sure I will later on.

Hope you will.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 28, 2018, 11:59:55 PM
Astana

Astana   Istanbul 3.428 3.723 3,5% > 3.592 corrected as 2.848
A320 4:18 852
B738 4:25 856
Astana   Moscow 2.296 2.642 3,5% > 2.549
A320 2:58 832
B738 3:22 836
Astana   London 4.802 5000 3,5% > 4.825
B752 5:46 867
Astana   Beijing 3.656 4.069 3,5% > 3.926
A320 4:55 852
A320 4:38 852
Astana   Delhi 2.5453236 3,5% > 3.122
A320 3:52 837

(http://i68.tinypic.com/34pif87.jpg)

New Delhi moved through Astana 1.200kms and Astana is added on the intersection points of other cities. Distance with Istanbul is corrected. Distance between New Delhi to Singapore and Addis Ababa will be checked later.
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 12:23:54 AM
Yekaterinburg

Yekaterinburg   Moscow  1.437 1.690 3,5% 1.630
B738 2:04 794
A320 2:12 790

Yekaterinburg   Istanbul 2.884 3.330 3,5% 3213 corrected as 2.639
A320 3:57 843

Yekaterinburg   Astana 945 1.303 3,5% 1.257
E190 1:41 774

Yekaterinburg   Beijing 4.369 4.317 3,5% 4.165 corrected as 3.637
A320 5:04 852

Yekaterinburg   Tel Aviv 3.397 3.820 3,5% 3686 corrected as 3.414
A319 4:29 852

Yekaterinburg is added, in the aim of revealing the North of Russia.

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2hi5z85.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 12:52:32 AM
Novosibirsk

Novosibirsk   Astana 869  (639 or 1.290)  corrected as 724
E190 0:53 750 663
A320 1:47 750 1.338 (inconsistent flight times)

Novosibirsk   Yekaterinburg 1.372 1.543 3,5% 1.488 corrected as 1.114
A320 1:56 784
E190 2:02 788
B738 1:55 788

Novosibirsk   Moscow 2.804 2.827 3,5% 2.727
B738 3:41 748
A320 3:54 743

Novosibirsk   Beijing 2.998 3.310 3,5% 3.193
A320 3:55 845

Novosibirsk   Hong Kong 4.469 5.256 3,5% 5.072
B738 6:08 857

Distances to Astana and Yekaterinburg are corrected and Novvosibirsk is added in the intersection point of whole cities.

(http://i65.tinypic.com/28jb6dv.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 01:44:28 AM
Harbin (China)

Harbin   Beijing 1.000 1.113 3,5% 1074
B738 1:31 778
A320 1:21 774

Harbin   Tokyo 1.617 2.211 3,5% 2.133
A321 2:44 809

Harbin   Singapore 5.387 6.000 3,5% 5.790
B788 6:40 900

Harbin   Novosibirsk 3.210 3.053 3,5% 2.946
A319 3:35 852

Harbin   Yekaterinburg 4.541 3.763 3,5% 3.631 corrected as 3.267
A320 4:25 852

(http://i64.tinypic.com/20gnx28.png)

Novosibirsk is moved through Harbin 200kms and Harbin is added as a perfect point overlaps with whole cities.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/5vro21.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 02:12:33 AM
Yakutsk

Yakutsk for attacking the center from Russian side.  8)

Yakutsk   Harbin 1.846 1.882
Type unknown 2:20 836

Yakutsk   Novosibirsk 2.778 2.727
B738 3:20 848

Yakutsk   Moscow 4.876 changed to 2.668
B738 6:39 857

(http://i67.tinypic.com/xkvipy.png)

We have insufficient datas and they show us a close point to the N point.

For be more sure, we should test it. Can it be close to the N like that or not?

I'm comparing its weather conditions with other 3 cities:

Today Moscow is: -6 degrees centigrad.
Today Novosibirsk is: -14 degrees centigrad.
Today Harbin, China: -22 degrees centigrad.
Today Yakutsk is: -42 degrees centigrad.

So perhaps, that point is possible. I'm accepting that point as Yakutsk. It is not a reliable point but fair enough.

Moscow to Yakutsk distance is changed.

Yakutsk is added as a fair point. It is the nearest city ever we examined. This situation explains why is it cold like that. because it is the nearest city and one of the nearest point to the N.

(http://i67.tinypic.com/2zp77u8.png)

I added Yakutsk with nomercy.  8)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/vcrjwg.png)

Do you still think N point is somewhere near North Canada or just 1.000kms from capital of Yakutsk?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 02:34:38 AM
udachny for disprove the google map

udachny in the google map is in the North of the Yakutsk.

But we know that Yakutsk is very cold as -42. Today Udachny is just -34 degrees centigrad. So as a mentality, Yakutsk may be in the north related to Udachny. But google says opposite:

(http://i67.tinypic.com/245g38n.png)

Ok.

udachny

I'll use google map values for this city.

Udachny   Yakutsk 968 corrected as same!
Udachny   Harbin 2.441 corrected as same!
Udachny   Yekaterinburg 2.832 corrected as 1.338 (No flight. Just google's wrong estimation)
Udachny   Novosibirsk 2004 corrected as same!
Udachny   Astana 2818 corrected as same!

(http://i66.tinypic.com/24omt81.png)

Corrected. Yahutsk is a bit more North than Udachny. This is the reason of why Yakutsk is -42 degrees and Udachny just -34 degrees centigrad.

(http://i68.tinypic.com/4tk2fo.png)

Anyway.

Udachny is added in the aim of attack the center from Russian side. But it is not more north than Yakutsk. Yakutsk still is the leader of nearest city to the center.

(http://i66.tinypic.com/30bpo5l.png)
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 04:28:40 AM
Checking mat!  ;)

In our map; distances to the North point and relationship with weather forecast now:

Yakutsk   991kms    -42 (nearest, coldest) CORRECTED!
Udachny   1157kms   -36
Baker Lake1535kms   -27
Yellowknife1843kms   -31
Iqaluit   1925kms    -28

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2w5iq2o.png)

Do you see the connection?

Ok. Lets try to google distances:

Distances from lowest to the highest relationship with temperatures, according to google:

Udachny   2621   -36 (nearest but not coldest)
Baker Lake2855   -27
Iqaluit   2920   -28
Yellowknife3062   -31
Yakutsk   3110   -42 (furthest to the ice center, but coldest) DISPROVEN!!

Do you see the connection now? No. This time, there is no connection.

It is proven that according to google, there is no connection between distance to the North and weather forecast. But I prove there is exist a relationship between them according to our map!

So;

When till the time you think to let google to deceive you?
Title: Re: Let's make a map all together depend on flight times
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 05:40:01 AM
Game over for ball/hoax!

I want to give a bit time to google for correct that shit! This is their own shit! They must clear it by themselves! We'll continue do this but they must correct that mistake.

I'm inviting the google to correct that mistake. Accept the earth's shape is wrong and this is the fact!

Give up the evilness!!

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2mi290n.gif)

You can't do anymore evilness, little aquma!

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 10:14:59 PM

2:57 B738 830
Vladivostok   Novosibirsk 3.734 4412 corrected as 3.445
5:22 A320 852
Vladivostok   Moscow 6.412 6767 corrected as 4.826
A333 8:07 864
1:39 A320 784
1:47 A320 774
Vladivostok   Hong Kong 2.887 3376 corrected as 2.828
3:58 B744 882
A320 0:51 667

Tokyo and Beijing together moved through Delhi 300kms. A perfect intersection occurred with whole cities as the following shape:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lOvEOE.png)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBJyB0.png)

The color of Yakutsk is changed as green in the aim of shows it the nearest city to the N point, until it stays that position. In other say, this green shows "the king city" of the earth.  8)

There is two greens in the map: Toronto is most accurate place and Yakutsk is the nearest city to the N.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: rvlvr on January 29, 2018, 10:42:35 PM
Goddammit, man! What happened to Istanbul as the center of everything! You better put it back there or else!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 29, 2018, 10:46:39 PM
Khabarovsk

Khabarovsk   Vladivostok 617  corrected as 667
A319 0:54 690
A320 1:02 690
Khabarovsk   Yakutsk 1.546 1.662
2:10 B738  795
Khabarovsk   Harbin 750 788
A319 1:06 743
Khabarovsk   Tokyo 1.483 corrected as 1.813
2:20 A320 784
Khabarovsk   Novosibirsk 3.600 3.507
A319 4:16  852
Khabarovsk   Yekaterinburg 4.852 corrected as 3.547
5:40 A320 852
Khabarovsk   Moscow 6.143 corrected as 4.322
7:22 B77w 888

Beijing, Vladivostok and Tokyo moved 200 kms through Khabarovsk and Khabarovsk is added.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOZEaM.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: InFlatEarth on January 29, 2018, 10:52:11 PM
Very interesting approach in creating an accurate map. I'm impressed!!!

May I suggest also using Marine Traffic Data (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:49.0/centery:-40.0/zoom:4) this can be used for the small islands in the Pacific Ocean (Cargo Vessels, Tankers and Passenger Vessels). Their are not fixed to travel on a "highway" nor are they told which route to travel, but go from point A to point B in a straight line. I have this app on my phone and I can see the speed of the ship when it travels and the time it leaves and arrives at a port.

Just a thought, I hope that this can help you for the outer rings of the map. Side note, it would be great if a coder can place the live flight paths of the airplanes on a flat earth map, so we can view their true path.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 12:11:53 AM
Very interesting approach in creating an accurate map. I'm impressed!!!

May I suggest also using Marine Traffic Data (http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:49.0/centery:-40.0/zoom:4) this can be used for the small islands in the Pacific Ocean (Cargo Vessels, Tankers and Passenger Vessels). Their are not fixed to travel on a "highway" nor are they told which route to travel, but go from point A to point B in a straight line. I have this app on my phone and I can see the speed of the ship when it travels and the time it leaves and arrives at a port.

Just a thought, I hope that this can help you for the outer rings of the map. Side note, it would be great if a coder can place the live flight paths of the airplanes on a flat earth map, so we can view their true path.

It can be considered later. If you want to make a contribution with a working about it, so I glad.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 12:36:22 AM
Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk

Sakhalinsk   Khabarovsk 593 629
A319 0:57 686
Sakhalinsk   Tokyo 1.254 1.248
1:39 SU9 (A319) 784
Sakhalinsk   Vladivostok 915 978 corrected as 787
A319 1:15 760
A320 1:25 760
Sakhalinsk   Novosibirsk 4.173 4.383 corrected as 4.055
B738 5:18 857
Sakhalinsk   Moscow 6.649 6.827 corrected as 4.880
B77w 7:57 890

Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk is added without living a problem.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/A15n8r.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 01:15:05 AM

1:30 Su9 (A319) 774
Magadan   Khabarovsk 1.615 1.496 corrected as 887
1:55 A319 809
Magadan   Novosibirsk 3.928 3.992 corrected as 3.538
B738 4:50 856
Magadan   Moscow 5.865 corrected as 3.766

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Ygrqm6.png)

Anadyr as the furthest point os Asia has an airport:

There is only 3 route you can go from Anadyr:

1:50 Su9
Anadyr   Khabarovsk 3.078 corrected as 1.687
B738 4:53
Anadyr Moscow 6.192 corrected as 5.081

Control:

In our map: Anadyr to Anchorage is: 1.401 kms.

Is it meaningfull? Of course!

Anadyr is added with a perfect estimation as a furthest city of the Asia. For shows its furthest city of Asia, colored with green.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/MdL05M.png)

With Anadyr, the general cities of the world is finished. Because we started with other side and arrived to Anchorage with a great success. After that, we'll work more detailed for remained places.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 01:17:09 AM
(https://i.hizliresim.com/Z97ZNo.png)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y0LE2N.png)

Perfectly overlaps!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 03:16:14 AM
Nuuk (Greenland)

Nuuk-Iqaluit 820 corrected as same
Nuuk-Rejkavik 1.433 corrected as same
Nuuk-Baker Lake 2.097 corrected as 1.776

Nuuk is added with ball distances and colored as magenta.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/m21k42.png)

Owww. Nuuk (Greenland) seems North of the Iceland. But, but according to google, Greenland is the west of Iceland!

(https://i.hizliresim.com/VrvM0R.png)

Both of us can't be true. One of us is deceiver, dishonest, liar!

Ok, lets compare us to google.

Lets compare these cities first by temperature. Two cities on the same ocean, on sea side, has same latitude, altitude. Almost everything about them is same. So we expect same or near temperatures, according to google. But in our opinion, the temperatures of them should be much different. Because two cities have same conditions but one of them is more and more North!

Ok. Lets look to the temperatures first:

Nook is today, -11 degrees centigrad.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/qGPWJ3.png)

And Rejkavik today...

(https://i.hizliresim.com/jyVWQG.png)

Zero degrees celcius.

Compare them by yearly temperatures:

Average yearly temperature Nuuk:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Z97E3A.png)

Average yearly temperature Rejkavik:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3EYqz4.png)

Ladies and Gentlmen; as you see that, these two cities if stays same latitude, has same altitude and if neigbours of the same ocean sided cities, impossible to be on same latitudes. Their distances to the North pole should be different.

So according to temperatures:

Flat map: 1

Second compare: Magnetic declination:

If we are true, there should be significant magnetic declination between them and Iceland should start to turn its face to Nuuk:

Magnetic declination Nuuk: -26 degrees (west)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/NZr12O.png)

So we may mark the North as 360-26= 334 degrees with a compass on the map as follow:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/5DMQXL.png)

A point to North West of the Greenland seems North. Ok, lets look to Rejkavik:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/9m2dl5.png)

-13 degrees west again. Ok, lets put on it too a compass. 360-13=347 degrees.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J893E.png)

As we see that, Rejkavik turned to Nuuk 13 degrees and take it to the "North West" side. This is not overlapped with google map. This event disproved the google map. On the other hand, it is not e perfect declination map but partially corrected the google / ball map.

Anyway.

With this event, we were right again and as a result:

Flat map: 2

Proven. Greenland is in the North side of the Iceland. At least, North West! This is obvious!

Google! Stop to lie! Turn to reality!

Anyway.

Nuuk is added as capital of the Greenland to the North side of the Rejkavik. (Not in the west)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/G9o0jN.png)

As a result, we added Nuuk as an estimation depends on non-reliable datas. We may correct it later with a better estimation but it is obviously that it isn't stay in the west, opposite of google's claim. It is a lie. It is stay in the North side of Rejkavik, at least, North West.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Macarios on January 30, 2018, 04:13:45 AM
While comparing Nuuk and Reykjavik average temperatures, think of this:

(http://odinumbraco.blob.core.windows.net/web-mountainguides/824733/gulfstream.jpg)

But I won't call you "liar". You just didn't know.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 04:36:26 AM
Barcelona

Barcelona   London 1.150
Barcelona   Helsinki 2.632
Barcelona   Rejkavik 2.985
Barcelona Lisbon 995

We accepted google distances in Europe as true because both distances and speeds pre accepted as true in Europe.

Barcelona   Sao Paolo 8.775 8982 corrected as 5.586
B763 10:39 874
Barcelona   Bogota 8.523 8062 corrected as 6.382
B788 9:22 892
Barcelona   LA 9.686 8540
9:54 B788 894
Barcelona   NY 6.158 5810 corrected as 4.852
B772 7:03 879
B764 6:39 879
Barcelona   Moscow 3.021 3.179 corrected as 3.549
A321 3:49 852
A320 3:55 852
Barcelona   Istanbul  2.234 2.495 corrected as 2764
A333 3:04 841
B738 3:06 836

I was thinking add Barcelone as a perfect point like Toronto but it was not perfect. Anyway. Barcelona is added for increasing population of Europe in the map and revealing the Mediterranian sea.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQnOMo.png)

Amsterdam

(https://i.hizliresim.com/D74y1O.png)

Can it be another perfect point like Toronto?

I'll use ball map distances till they stay inside of the error range. If one of distance stays outside, then I'll use flight times. I hope pilots know the path.  ::)

Amsterdam   Rejkavik   2014
Amsterdam   London   357
Amsterdam   Moscow   2437 corrected as 2.297
Amsterdam   Istanbul   2212 corrected as 1.968
Amsterdam   Barcelona   1238
Amsterdam   Lisbon   1864 corrected as 1.797
Amsterdam   Helsinki   1501
Amsterdam   Tel Aviv   3296 corrected as 3.173
Amsterdam   Toronto   5980 corrected as 4.802
Amsterdam   NY   5852 corrected as 4.228
Amsterdam   LA   8956 corrected as 7.946
Amsterdam   Mexico City   9211 corrected as 8036
Amsterdam   Bogota   8853 corrected as 6330
Amsterdam   Vancouer   7697 corrected as 6520
Amsterdam   Jakarta   11364 corrected as 12.481
Amsterdam   Beijing   7815 corrected as 6.994
Amsterdam   Tokyo   9305 corrected as 8.217
Amsterdam   Astana   4414
Amsterdam   Delhi   6357 corrected as 7738
Amsterdam   Johannesburg   9022 corrected as 8001
Amsterdam   Lagos   5109
Amsterdam   Sao Paolo   9804 corrected as 6341
Amsterdam   Buenos Aires   11444 corrected as 7676

Amsterdam perfectly overlaps with whole world. Alhough I use wrong values that came from ball/google hoax, I found the true place with a few estimation. So that Amsterdam stays almost all the circles,  it defined as a reliable point and marked with green circle.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/az2zM5.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 04:37:13 AM
...

Either Don't come with globist lie again, or I'll ignore you. Do you really enough idiot to believe a sea water changes a temperatures of the city as 10 degrees. Come on, go to the hell with your globist lies!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 05:00:42 AM
Bergen (Norway)

Bergen   Barcelona 2.123
Bergen   Amsterdam 891
Bergen   Helsinki 1077 corrected as 885
Bergen   London 1044
Bergen   Rejkavik   1456
Bergen   Istanbul   2691 corrected as 2.027

Bergen as an European city, perfectly overlapped with ball distances. 4 was intersected and two was a bit changed.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb1b0z.png)

As a result, Bergen, one of the upper city of Norway is added in the aim of attacking center from Norway side.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOZO0L.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Macarios on January 30, 2018, 05:04:30 AM
...

Either Don't come with globist lie again, or I'll ignore you. Do you really enough idiot to believe a sea water changes a temperatures of the city as 10 degrees. Come on, go to the hell with your globist lies!

What is in the hell that draws your attention?

First you talk about "same ocean" as factor that determines the temperature, and when I show you that the ocean locally isn't the same, you curse and rage.

Do you know what are "Alberta Clipper", "Saskatchewan Screamer" and "Manitoba Mauler" ?
How they influence temperatures across the USA?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 05:10:25 AM
Tromso (Norway)

Tromso   Bergen   1206
Tromso   London   2248
Tromso   Amsterdam   2052
Tromso   Rejkavik   1843

Also Tromso is added and perfectly matched. None of distances are changed. Perfectly overlapped.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOZOmO.png)

Tromso is added in the aim of attacking the center from Norway side. It seems Norway is finished but it is still far to the center.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb1bkZ.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 05:20:08 AM
This is not a discussing page. If you want to discuss or have an appeal about this working, you may do it in the topic of:

Free discussing about new map >> https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=73932.0

We opened that issue for discussings like this. But you are provocating everything. Instead of reveal google and others liars lies, you are still targeting me with aim of slow down the working. This is a dishonesty.

Macarios is added to the ignore list.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 05:35:34 AM
Oslo

Oslo   Tromso   1149   1149
Oslo   Bergen   304   304
Oslo   London   1154   1154
Oslo   Amsterdam   912   912
Oslo   Rejkavik   1744   1744
Oslo   Helsinki   787   corrected as 709

As an European city, ball map datas accepted as reliable and used one more time.

5/6 cities are perfectly intersected by themselves. Helsinki, one more time proved its place not perfect. Then it has moved through Moscow as 50kms for an error dispersion.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y0Lq0j.png)

As a result, Oslo is added with a great overlapping the whole map.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lOvZlk.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 05:48:54 AM
Svalbard (Top of the Norway)

Thats the reason of we added Oslo and Tromso. Because this city only has two flight and only through these cities. So we have a chance to control its place by using these two cities. First we try to find it by using ball datas. Then control with flights, if requered.

Svalbard   Oslo   2018
Svalbard   Tromso   889
Svalbard   Helsinki   1933
Svalbard   Bergen   2022

(https://i.hizliresim.com/4abzAJ.png)

Alhough all distances are reliable in this area, there is a lot of possibilities. Because we haven't a distance coming from other side, or right or left and limited the place. It is hard to decide its place yet.

Tomorrow we'll try to determine its, the top of the Europa's place.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Macarios on January 30, 2018, 06:00:18 AM
Macarios is added to the ignore list.

Typical behavior. :-)

What disproves you, or you simply don't like, ignore.
Corrections are not welcome if reality is different.

hehehe
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on January 30, 2018, 07:28:39 AM
So, is London north or south of Moscow?

In January Moscow is much colder in July it is warmer than London.

Where does that leave the map?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 11:06:53 AM
So, is London north or south of Moscow?

In January Moscow is much colder in July it is warmer than London.

Where does that leave the map?

I have not to explain anything. This is a common working, not a discussing. Ask your questions in QA or debate sections.

Stop to do kamikaze attacks.

If you really want to listen I do same things with globist liars, of course, I can produce similar reasons:

"Northern heat winds heats Moscow area in summer and same winds occurred in winter in UK".

Of course, Moscow is inside and London is a sea side so their climate is different. As I said that, here is not a debate section and I don't want to continue this discussing anymore.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: ER22 on January 30, 2018, 04:13:22 PM
Hey botd, how's the map coming?
Just looking for an update.

I still don't understand why you are using flight times.
Aren't these times posted by airlines that are part of the conspiracy?

Just flying way off shortest course to keep the secret?

Cuz nobody else on FE is doing anything.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: robintex on January 30, 2018, 04:54:32 PM
Deeted my previous post for more study of your map.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 09:52:41 PM
Hey botd, how's the map coming?
Just looking for an update.

I still don't understand why you are using flight times.
Aren't these times posted by airlines that are part of the conspiracy?

Just flying way off shortest course to keep the secret?

Cuz nobody else on FE is doing anything.

I finished the general shape of the earth. You or anybody who want to see a real map, may overlap it with using an actual map.  I'll not do that, at least for now.

This is a better map to show only cities and distances. It seems more practical for different usages.

Flight times are not reliable, but it is not worst than using google datas. I use both together. Sometimes google doesn't work. For example,  distances in China and RUssia are so so wrong. You can't understand the true size and shape of Russia and China without using flight times. If google claimed two distances Russia and China are same in the globe map; it actually means the distance in China is bigger than distance in Russia. Only flight time gives it.

I know they are misleading too. But they can't deceive people without producing fake/hoax routes.

For example,

To create a fake prove about globe, they need to create a fake route between Sydney and Santiago/chile. I can distinguish such hoax routes from others. Because the provided data from that route comes inconsistent, related to the others. So I still think flight times are more reliable than distances in the map. At least, the lie on the map doesn't require anything. Just a draw and produce a lie. But a fake flight time hoax need more lies and hoaxes like create a fake route, make an agreement with airlines line Qantas, South African and Lan airlines,... These can be proven next a time. the responsibles may be tried on charges of "deceiving the public". But nobody can blame someone for draw a false map.

My working both works for correct map, and reveals the dishonest companies that will be blamed with some crimes.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 11:14:57 PM
Svalbard

Svalbard is added with the values come from Oslo and Tromso. Because there is only flights towards these cities. So that the others defined as non reliable and this two data defined as reliable. (corrected by flight times)

Svalbard   Oslo   2018
Svalbard   Tromso   889

Because of there was insufficient data that just 2, so that it colored as magenta.

Severnaya Zemlya

Severnaya Zemlya is added as new leader of the world the place nearest to the N. It is here as ballist theory.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/W71jg4.png)

We found it as here:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/VrvjPj.png)

If you take care, it is north of Udachny and Northwest of the Yakutsk. If you want these 3 in the map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb1jyV.png)

As a result, Svalbard as the top of the Europe and Severnaya Zemlya  as the new king of the earth are added on the roof of the earth. The shape of the center coming closer to be revealed.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/p6BOWn.png)

I hope a shape is occurred in everyone's mind after these two cities are added.

Yakutsk the king is dead! Long live the king Severnaya Zemlya!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 30, 2018, 11:34:12 PM
We found an island as the roof of the earth. I may show it on the ball map like this:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOZQPb.png)

These islands are nearest place to the center till we found a better one. But we know that it is closer than the islands shown in same latitude with it. The others are lie. This is the top of the earth. It is only 755 kms far to the center.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnojGo.png)

If you look to north of it on a map, you see nothing!

On google, you can measure from it to North about 700kms, like our map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Z97lnz.png)

Proven. there is nothing between this island and North. But we considered that there is something at there. If there is a normal place, aircrafts may travel around it. Don't they?

(https://i.hizliresim.com/3EYklj.png)

There is no aircraft runs from North of the Sevelnaya something.

There is an aircraft seems pass from here. Lets look to it:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/vjn3NO.png)

Gotcha! Define it as "forbidden zone".

As a result, the North of Sevelnaya island is forbidden zone; neither aircrafts, nor ships can enter that area.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 31, 2018, 02:25:34 AM
All places cause the center of the earth are added.

Upper Greenland (North West Greenland)
Severnaya Zemlya (North west Yakutsk)
Kotelny Island (North East Yakutsk)

Alert and North side of Greenland from Canada side; Severnaya Zemlya and Kotelny Islands from Russian side are added. These 4 places are only places surrounded the center. Whole others are far. Others seem close to center but they are not. Only these 4 islands.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBJmvb.png)

Control them:

Travel on them in google maps:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Lb1m00.png)

3.004 kms. We went from Alert to Upper Green land, then Severnaya then Kotelny.

Lets do it in our map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gOZEMb.png)

We travelled same route as: 238+1138+352=1.728kms.

In google, the travel around these places 3.000kms, and in our map same distance is 1.700kms.

If we consider that; in fact, first a few latitudes are absent! and the center is smaller than shown in the map; then it may be cause a 1.300kms difference and perfectly overlaps!

We'll continue to do such as operations on the map, till somebody start to convert to it an understandable map.  8)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 02:29:02 AM
Great work.

If I understand your process correctly, you take the average time it take to travel between 2 cities and you multiply it by the speed of the airplane to get the distance.

You then create a circle of that radius.

You also to this to 2 other cities that have the same flights to the original cities and then you see the intersection of the circles to mark your city.

Am I correct?

Very smart idea!

Do you take snapshots of the web pages that you use, in order to have proof of your data?

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 31, 2018, 02:34:17 AM
Great work.

If I understand your process correctly, you take the average time it take to travel between 2 cities and you multiply it by the speed of the airplane to get the distance.

You then create a circle of that radius.

You also to this to 2 other cities that have the same flights to the original cities and then you see the intersection of the circles to mark your city.

Am I correct?

Very smart idea!

Do you take snapshots of the web pages that you use, in order to have proof of your data?

You got it truely. I calculated the aircraft speeds from European sided aircrafts, because Europe is older than other continents compared by knowledge, so I trust the distances in Europe is generally true.

Yet I don't think create an additional documentation. After somebody starts to convert it to a map, then I may start to  collect the datas. Till that time, I'll continue do work. Thanks.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 31, 2018, 02:39:54 AM
Why did we unsoncidered the other islands. Lets look to an dictional knowledge:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/az2m6d.png)

The important point for us is: "North Magnetic Pole". This is actually the center of the earth, ie N.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/kOnm4A.png)

Because of the real North on google map is a hoax, and we calculated its true place. So that, the magnetic pole in the google map is our center. So that, the other two islands remained far to the center. Not so far, but a few. And perhaps there is a few mistake on the globe map. It seems we are not wrong while taking islands upper side of the Yakutsk as the two of the nearest ones.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: InFlatEarth on January 31, 2018, 02:42:26 AM
For the cities that you have piloted, do you go back, say after a week to see the times again. I don't know if the season will play a roll in this. Also you have to consider the wind direction. From a Flat Earth Map, the winds rotate counterclockwise and thus the airplanes will be traveling faster than in the opposite direction. How much, I have no idea.

I don't know if you took that into consideration.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 31, 2018, 02:58:28 AM
For the cities that you have piloted, do you go back, say after a week to see the times again. I don't know if the season will play a roll in this. Also you have to consider the wind direction. From a Flat Earth Map, the winds rotate counterclockwise and thus the airplanes will be traveling faster than in the opposite direction. How much, I have no idea.

I don't know if you took that into consideration.

Winds is a lie. Its just a psicological effect. One route generally they go true, and the opposite side they go wrong. This is related with converting real flat distances to globe ones. They created it from west to the east, so that generally west to the east routes are true. But if you create a globe map with considering flat distances converted to globe ones, you make mistake while turn back. So that they go wrong while returning from their destination.

While pilot go short direction, he steps less on the accelerator. Because the dashboard shows him the speed is enough. So that they think "winds are helping me". But when they return back from destination, because of the path is wrong and longer, so that he forces the aircraft to go faster. He steps on the accelerator but this time can't success to find the true speed. Because the dashboard calculates the average speed depends on the road passed and it shows insufficient speed. No matter how pilot steps on the accelerator can't find the true speed. Then he thinks "winds are blowing from opposite direction". But this is just a psicological affect.

So that;

winds is google mistakes on the map. Such as reasons work for hiding their lies. Do not consider them. Winds can affect on an airplane how when you go with your car and it affects you. It can only shake the car a bit but can't slow it down!

Did you see a formula pilot considered the direction of the winds? "Hey captain, let me race when winds from behind of me"?? No, never. Which one is faster, it always faster. No relationship with winds.

Winds are just lie, winds are just hoax when the issue comes to aircrafts.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 31, 2018, 03:01:53 AM
Where is the center of the earth:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J8AQA.png)

It is 500 kms equal far to:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/8YDB8k.png)

It may be closer than 500kms. Perhaps, till 200kms is possible.

If somebody really want to go N point, must start its travel from one of the following places:

Severnaya Zemlya (North west Yakutsk)
Kotelny Island (North East Yakutsk)
Upper Greenland (North West Greenland)

It seems Alert and Upper Greenland are more deserted but North Yakutsk is more meaningful.

Take care the Russian soldiers.

Good luck!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on January 31, 2018, 09:55:00 PM
I'll do a control of the central 4 islands by weather. If we prove they stay about same or near place, I'll close the issue of "organizing the center". Then we may focuse to the other places.

There is 4 places in the center we talked about. Their weather forecast today and next few days:

I used for:

Kotelny Island, Russia http://en.allmetsat.com/weather-forecast/arctic.php?city=4904
Severnaya Zemlya, Russia https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/14-days/severnaya-zemlya_russia_1492613
Upper Greenland. https://www.accuweather.com/en/gl/greenland-weather ( I could not find a better source for this)

Result of temperatures.

Kotelny Island, -23
Severnaya Zemlya, -24
Upper Greenland -22 (nearest place)

Corrected. As we know that these 4 are sharing same ocean, neigbours of the N point, have same altitude, latitude. So they must have about same air conditions. And we found that they really have.

We may compare them with other 2 islands shown in google map as they neighbours of the N point, but in fact they are not.

svalbard, -15
Zemlya Georga (Saint George Island), -30

One of them is colder than central 4 islands and the other one heater. So they are irrevelant by air conditions. They can't be neighbours of the central 4 islands.

Checked, corrected, mated.

We may free to continue to the other parts of the earth. We may turn back for a better correction on their places but it is a detailed working, no more required for now.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 12:52:33 AM
We finished general shape of the earth and have some strong points like Amsterdam and Toronto. So from now, we may correct mistakes on the map, depends on strong points.

In firstly, it seems the places of South America, especially Sao Paulo and Johannesburg seems suspicious. And the end point of Asia and Anchorage seems inconsistent. I'll check and correct them if required.

Firstly, Sao Paulo and whole south America:

Sao Paulo and whole south America are deleted.

Most reliable distances to Sao Paulo.

Sao Paulo (re-placed)

Sao Paulo - Toronto: 8.187 corrected as  7.714
Sao Paulo - Amsterdam: 9.805 corrected as 9.805
Sao Paulo - London: 9.496 corrected as 9.496
Sao Paulo - Lisbon: 7.947 corrected as 8.325
Sao Paulo - Bogota: 4.319 corrected as 4.319
Sao Paulo-  Panama: 5.147 corrected as 4.719
Sao Paulo- LA: 9912 corrected as 9912

Sao Paulo is added as a green point that overlaps with whole world, except Africa. I believe the direct flights through Africa from Sao Paulo is completely a hoax. So I denied all of them. When I deny the flights through Africa, whole distances perfectly overlaps as follow.

Bogota Turned around Panama till enough to catch the intersection point. The new place of it about overlaps with its actualy direction between Panama. Not a lot, but about half overlapped with google.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/4arrRQ.png)

So I marked Sao Paulo as green as shows it a reliable point.

Buenos Aires (replaced)

I expect a perfect intersection for Buenos Aires too, after perfectly placed Sao Paulo.

Buenos Aires - Sao Paulo 1.674
Buenos Aires - Bogota 4.660
Buenos Aires - Panama 5.345 corrected as 4.717
Buenos Aires - NY 8.514 corrected as 8.157
Buenos Aires - London 11.126 corrected as 10.447
Buenos Aires - Barcelona

Not perfect. But we change color of it from magenta to white. Because it is not as reliable as Sao Paulo but safe.

Santiago (re-placing)

Santiago - Sao Paulo 2575
Santiago - Bogota 4245
Santiago - Panama 4789 corrected as 4.137
Santiago - Buenos Aires 1130
Santiago - NY 8.241 corrected as 7.650
Santiago - London 11.664 corrected as 10.369
Santiago - LA 9002

Santiago is re placed.

Bahia Thetis (Deep of the west) - re placing.

Ushuaia instead of Bahia Thetis, because there is an airport in Ushuaia.

Ushuaia - Buenos Aires 2.370
Ushuaia - Santiago De Chile 2.388
Ushuaia - Sao Paulo 3.906

There is a perfect intersection in this point. No correction required.

Both to shows it a reliable point and the end of the South America, Ushuaia is colored as green.

As a result, all cities in South America are corrected and their colors are changed related with their reliablity.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Plkk77.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 03:10:37 AM
Johannesburg is re-placed for do some operations to aim the Africa.

Johannesburg

Johannesburg NY      12818 corrected as 13.129
Johannesburg Amsterdam      9022
Johannesburg Beijing      11706 corrected as 11.153
Johannesburg Istanbul      7474
Johannesburg Lagos      4497

(https://i.hizliresim.com/EP8Jk8.png)

As we see that, there is a perfect intersection on this point. And the two remained are not so wrong. So I changed the color of Johannesburg as green for show its reliablity.

Lagos re placed

Lagos Johannesburg       4497
Lagos Tel Aviv      4319 corrected as 2737
Lagos London      5020
Lagos Amsterdam      5109
Lagos NY      8481 corrected as 9041

Lagos a bit changed. Not affect a lot the place on the map.

Abidjan

Abidjan   Lagos 815 880
B737 1:09 743
A332 1:17 757
B788 5:28 902
Abidjan   Lisbon 3.769 4247
5:10 A320 852
Abidjan   Istanbul 5.141 5.490
B739 6:18 903

Abidjan is added as first "blue" colored city in the aim of show we placed it in the aim of revealing the outside corners of the lands. So the blue color means seaside cities, now on.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/RnkQRY.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 04:06:35 AM
Casablanca

Casablanca   NY 5802 5.200
5:59 B788 902
Casablanca   Lisbon 619 (540 or 731)
B738 0:48 700
A319 1:05 700 inconsistent. Two is possible.
Casablanca   Sao Paulo 7.549 7.454
8:31 B788 907
Casablanca   London 2.096 2.082
B738 2:36 830
Casablanca   Istanbul 3.313 3.501
B77w 4:06 885
Casablanca   Barcelona 1.228  1.254
1:39 B738 788
Casablanca   Lagos 3.187 3.111
3:46 B738 856
Casablanca   Amsterdam 2.330 2.774
B738 3:42 836 3.093
Unknown type 3:08 879 2.754

South America turned around Bogota and Panama in opposite of clock direction till catch the intersection point.

Lisbon moved a few the south.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/D72B56.png)

As a result, South Africa and South America moved a few their old positions and Casablanca is added as the second blue marked city.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 04:44:14 AM
Dakar as the 3rd city in the west sea side of the Africa.

Dakar

Dakar   Abidjan      1799
Dakar   Lagos      2456
Dakar   Casablanca      2324
Dakar   Lisbon      2792
Dakar   Barcelona      3520
Dakar   Istanbul      5334
Dakar   NY      6127
Dakar   Johannesburg      6698

If we only consider google values; Dakar should be here:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/qGMjLB.png)

But when we look the flight times, we see that in fact, New York route is absent!

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J1nAL.png)

Perhaps, gang has forgot to add there a fake flight.  ;D

Anyway. After delete the NY route, the place appears by itself.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/vj5XOp.png)

Now we have 2 close points. In the aim of reducing the circles, I'll delete Istanbul circle because surrounds both. And with a bit move to the Dakar, circle of Johannesburg is deleted.

Remained circles:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J1nMO.png)

Did you find the Dakar now? Surely. There is only one place remained for it:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vra02V.png)

Dakar is somewhere on this line. We may select it by randomly or find it exactly by using flights. Second method will be used for this time. We need only two route to determine its place. Right circles. Because the left ones already correct both points. So we will focus only  on these routes:

Dakar Abidjan 1.799
Dakar Lagos 2.456

One of them may be a bit wrong like 100-170 kms. It is enough for us. 170kms is the lenght of the error line of the Dakar.  ::)

Dakar Abidjan 1.799
Dakar Lagos 2.456

There is no flight. Perhaps a storm or something else affected the airport. Anyway. We'll use first method: Estimate. We'll take the middle of the line. It provides us find the true point with stay inside 170kms/2=85 kms mistake range.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/gO8qk3.png)

It sounds 85 kms is a lot mistake but temporary it provides enough strenght to create the coastal lines. Anyway.

Dakar is added as the 3th sea side city stays in the west of the Africa; in the aim of revealing shape of the Africa.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/BLPr0g.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 05:28:13 AM
Placing the Antarctica.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JvLOA.png)

982 kms from Usuaia to the nearest place of Antarctica. So Antarctic circle becomes about 14.000kms.

Its distance to some spesific cities:

Sydney to Antarctica: 2.400kms.
Auckland to Antarctica: 2.744 kms.

Sydney: 3.644kms.
Auckland: 3.738kms.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vra0dv.png)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/G9RB8b.png)

In our map Johannesburg to Antarctica: 4.022kms.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2J1rGE.png)

Sounds like we have different with google minimum zero, average 700 and maximum 1.000 kms in the matter of distance to the Antarctica from coastal lands.

It is caused by either goggle is saying us lie one more time, or Antarctica isn't a perfect circle. Both is possible.

Anyway. As a result, Antarctic circle is added by a "good" estimation.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/lOjdAJ.png)

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 09:38:44 PM
We made a mistake cause to find Antarctica close to Sydney and far to South America. I found the mistake.

Who can find the mistake? We made a mistake cause this error. What was the wrong cause we find Antarctica close to Australia.

While you are thinking, I'm correcting ght mistake and it will take about 2 minutes. But I'll wait a bit more for your thinking.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 09:53:51 PM
The answer is: "North point is placed wrong". Because when we first placed it, considered geographic north. But Antarctica placed related to magnetic, ie real north. So we should move our N point towards estimated magnetic north. And this value should be about 500kms accordingly to our difference. Lets do it:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/JQAJdJ.png)

Ok.

After the Magnetic and geographic norths are overlapped, the corners of the earth:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/PlkWYd.png)

North Point re placed.
Hot line (so called equator something) re- placed.
Cold line re-placed (Antarctica)

(https://i.hizliresim.com/y05amn.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 10:23:43 PM
After corrections, North Point became near to Yakutsk again. So it changed its color as green. And upper Greenland and Alert Canada stayed far. Their colors with Semernaya island converted to Magenta!

For this tme, King Severnaya Zemlya is dead, long live Yakutsk!

Corrected. North Yakutsk town is "Tiksi". And there is an Arctic Research station of Russia. In Samoylov Island, Ust Lena, Tiksi town, Yakutsk.

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 10:38:14 PM
(https://i.hizliresim.com/D72bJy.png)

North point with hot circle and cold circle together moved through Yakuts 100kms. This movement took some islands in Lena delta inside of Arctic circle, especially Tiksi town, Yakutsk; where the land a Russian-German arctic researc center stays in.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/arctic/observatories/tiksi/
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 10:44:42 PM
We'll correct places in Oceania which stayed wrong side of "Hotline" after the N, hotline and cold line moved.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on February 01, 2018, 11:09:14 PM
For the cities that you have piloted, do you go back, say after a week to see the times again. I don't know if the season will play a roll in this. Also you have to consider the wind direction. From a Flat Earth Map, the winds rotate counterclockwise and thus the airplanes will be traveling faster than in the opposite direction. How much, I have no idea.

I don't know if you took that into consideration.
Winds will not be a factor because the flights in both directions are taken into account. If you look at how they measure land speed records: They have to do 2 runs in opposite directions within a certain time limit, the average of the 2 runs is then taken as the speed of the attempt. So the effect of the wind is cancelled out.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 11:10:33 PM
People in the world are looking the wrong place for the N. Because the important thing is "magnetic pole", not the geographic pole. Geographic north means nothing.

I believe magnetic pole stays in the Laptev Sea, Russia. And the event make this situation more mystereous that, Russia yet discovered some islands in this sea. If the sea is a type of inner, a close sea to Russia, why they yet discover some islands? And listen the speaker, she says "there is places in this sea human foot has never trod".

I'm saying again her talks: ""there is places in this sea that human foot has never trod". Take care there is, in the middle of the earth! How is it possible?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 01, 2018, 11:20:17 PM
Another interesting point would be Easter Island. It's a good one because it's a well known touristic place and has verified flights from Polynesia and Chile.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on February 01, 2018, 11:24:19 PM
I have started to draw the map of the continents. A bit difficult in the scale you are using. But it seems to start to make sense. How does one shoe the other 3 wind directions on the map in relation to North?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 11:46:57 PM
I have started to draw the map of the continents. A bit difficult in the scale you are using. But it seems to start to make sense. How does one shoe the other 3 wind directions on the map in relation to North?

Are you aware that you are speaking too much? Stop to talk anymore nonsence. Nobody ask you anything. If you want to play game, do it out of here. Here is not a kindergarden.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 01, 2018, 11:52:43 PM
Another interesting point would be Easter Island. It's a good one because it's a well known touristic place and has verified flights from Polynesia and Chile.

Latam airlines is in the black list. They have listed as "deceiver, liar" caterogy company.

Tahiti-Easter Island flights are nothing but just a little hoax. Latam claims it. No, lie.

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on February 01, 2018, 11:59:38 PM
I have started to draw the map of the continents. A bit difficult in the scale you are using. But it seems to start to make sense. How does one shoe the other 3 wind directions on the map in relation to North?

Are you aware that you are speaking too much? Stop to talk anymore nonsence. Nobody ask you anything. If you want to play game, do it out of here. Here is not a kindergarden.
Well you asked for help to draw in the countries!!! Why am i talking too much??? I am asking a question whats the problem with that????
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 12:01:00 AM
Easter Island that trolls attacked for this island:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oO34nm.png)

There is no flights except Santiago.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/1JvOnA.png)

I wonder when you globasts will give up act like kindergarden students.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 12:04:14 AM
I have started to draw the map of the continents. A bit difficult in the scale you are using. But it seems to start to make sense. How does one shoe the other 3 wind directions on the map in relation to North?

Are you aware that you are speaking too much? Stop to talk anymore nonsence. Nobody ask you anything. If you want to play game, do it out of here. Here is not a kindergarden.
Well you asked for help to draw in the countries!!! Why am i talking too much??? I am asking a question whats the problem with that????

Do you have to show winds on the map? Come on, you are just kidding in your little mind. Be honest for a few time and get out of here.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 12:25:00 AM
Tahiti

Tahiti is added for amateur map workers:

There is a perfect intersection here:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBD7Mm.png)

Used datas: Tahiti distance co city/google value/corrected value:

Los Angeles 6.630  6.898
Honolulu 4.428 as same!
Auckland 4.097 corrected as 4.458
Tokyo 9.518  corrected as 5.819

As a result, Tahiti is added as a reference point to Ocenia.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/XPkR4D.png)

We can't add the "east island" yet because there is insufficient data for do it.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 12:43:05 AM
Checking arrive to Tahiti from world:

You may go Tahiti from direct or indirect:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/0EnJ0D.png)

USA, Ocenia, Europe or Asia. But you can't go Tahiti from South America! Neither from Sao Paulo, nor from Santiago, Chile. I belive that Latam airlines is saying lie about Tahiti. They don't fly there. Also they have no flight on airport to Tahiti.

Air Tahiti says truth about Tahiti. Only Air Tahiti may say where you can go Tahiti from.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Macarios on February 02, 2018, 02:11:39 AM
Some more flights from/to South America over Pacific.

https://www.flights.com/flights/papeete-ppt-to-lima-lim/ (https://www.flights.com/flights/papeete-ppt-to-lima-lim/)

With details and map.

But he ignores anything that breaks his world reshape wishes. :-)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 02, 2018, 02:16:50 AM
Quote
I belive that Latam airlines is saying lie about Tahiti. They don't fly there. Also they have no flight on airport to Tahiti.

Well you are wrong.
Here is  the official airport web page archive for the last week (in French sorry) :

http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/articles.php?id=96 (http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/articles.php?id=96)

You can see the following flights (both charter and regular flights):

22/01 : TN711 to Easter Island
23/01 : LA836 to Easter Island and Santiago de Chile
23/01 : LA833 from Easter Island and Santiago de Chile
24/01 : TN712 from Easter Island

Flights labelled LAxx are from LaTam, TNxx are from Air Tahiti Nui.

You know, Faa is a little airport. There are few international flights, so "they" cannot create imaginary flights. You DO see Latam planes parked on the tarmac. You DO see people boarding for Easter Island and coming from it. It's a known and appreciated destination.

Quote
Air Tahiti says truth about Tahiti

Easter Island is  connected with Tahiti on  a weekly basis with regular flight (LaTam) plus some charter flights operated by Air Tahiti Nui.
As Easter Island is connected to Santiago de Chile, you can fly from Tahiti to Santiago de Chile. And the distance from Tahiti to Santiago de Chile is wrong, dead wrong.Like the distance from Auckland to Chile or  Buenos Aires. Believe it or not, that's real life.

I'm sorry if it doesn't please you because it makes your map inaccurate, but you cannot just simply dismiss every single flight witch does not fit your beliefs.
For example How do you "correct" this

Quote
Tahiti - Tokyo 9.518  corrected as 5.819

when this record

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THT78/history/20180128/1700Z/NTAA/RJAA (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THT78/history/20180128/1700Z/NTAA/RJAA)

shows that the plane needs near 12 hours to reach Tokyo... That's something about 480 km/hr of average speed for an Airbus A340. Really slow, Really really slow for such a long flight. Your "corrected" distance do not make sense. How did you calculate it ?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: rvlvr on February 02, 2018, 02:45:42 AM
I do like -- and appreciate a lot! -- the amount of work put into this, it has been interesting to follow, but the omissions made do make it harder to swallow the results.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Macarios on February 02, 2018, 02:46:35 AM
Quote
I hate when measured values ruin results of my experiment.

World airline routemap 2009
Too many southern flights to declare "hoax". :-)
After 2009 was also introduced flight Tahiti (PPT) - Lima (LIM), and few more.

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 03:55:22 AM
Quote
I belive that Latam airlines is saying lie about Tahiti. They don't fly there. Also they have no flight on airport to Tahiti.

Well you are wrong.
Here is  the official airport web page archive for the last week (in French sorry) :

http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/articles.php?id=96 (http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/articles.php?id=96)

You can see the following flights (both charter and regular flights):

22/01 : TN711 to Easter Island
23/01 : LA836 to Easter Island and Santiago de Chile
23/01 : LA833 from Easter Island and Santiago de Chile
24/01 : TN712 from Easter Island

Flights labelled LAxx are from LaTam, TNxx are from Air Tahiti Nui.

You know, Faa is a little airport. There are few international flights, so "they" cannot create imaginary flights. You DO see Latam planes parked on the tarmac. You DO see people boarding for Easter Island and coming from it. It's a known and appreciated destination.

Quote
Air Tahiti says truth about Tahiti

Easter Island is  connected with Tahiti on  a weekly basis with regular flight (LaTam) plus some charter flights operated by Air Tahiti Nui.
As Easter Island is connected to Santiago de Chile, you can fly from Tahiti to Santiago de Chile. And the distance from Tahiti to Santiago de Chile is wrong, dead wrong.Like the distance from Auckland to Chile or  Buenos Aires. Believe it or not, that's real life.

I'm sorry if it doesn't please you because it makes your map inaccurate, but you cannot just simply dismiss every single flight witch does not fit your beliefs.
For example How do you "correct" this

Quote
Tahiti - Tokyo 9.518  corrected as 5.819

when this record

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THT78/history/20180128/1700Z/NTAA/RJAA (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THT78/history/20180128/1700Z/NTAA/RJAA)

shows that the plane needs near 12 hours to reach Tokyo... That's something about 480 km/hr of average speed for an Airbus A340. Really slow, Really really slow for such a long flight. Your "corrected" distance do not make sense. How did you calculate it ?

You are saying lie! When I click the link you gave and search for a flight:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/oO3JQ9.png)

No flight!

We are February okey? February, not January! Show me a reliable flight, not a fable.

You are start to write fable like how old globist liars. Shame on you. If you continue to say lie and blame me, I will ignore you.

Who want to do, click this link and control if this "hoax" flight exist or not!

https://www.flightnetwork.com/destinations/Easter-Island/Tahiti_Easter-Island.html

This is the link he gave. No flight! But it is easy to write a fable about past!

I think you don't understand what you read. Article talking about "DEPARTURES!"

Quote
Horaire des vols de TAHITI - FAAA Du lundi 22 Janvier 2018 au dimanche 28 Janvier 2018

Lundi 22 Janvier 2018
Arrivées :

TN101 LOS ANGELES (AA7171/ QF3816/ SB4411/ NZ4091) 0530
TN077 TOKYO (KE6701/JL5077) 0620

TN102 AUCKLAND (AA7176 / QF3815 / SB4410) 2230

Départs :

TN101 AUCKLAND (AA7177/ QF3816/ SB4411) 0755

TN711 ILE DE PAQUES (VOL CHARTER) 0830

TN102 LOS ANGELES (QF3815 / AA7176 /AF5103 / SB4410/NZ4092 ) 2359

This is the link he gave again: http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/articles.php?id=96

It is not talking about direct flight. It offers a lot of departures!

Because of he said a lie in the post, I ignored remained nonsences!

If he continues his "dishonest lies", I'll be constrained to ignore him.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 04:05:43 AM
Oh, I found a flight in 5th February but then...

(https://i.hizliresim.com/jy3dBG.png)

It offers me a about 10.000 TL price. (about 3.000\$) It is almost half of a car cost. It means "dont buy this flight!". I'm sure Latam will find a way to cancel this flight, or will offer "departures" on next days, or will say "the aircraft made a retar because of air conditions". This is exact. Because LATAM airlines is not fliying in this path!

I'm saying again, Latam airlines doesn't fly between Tahiti and Eastern Island. It is absent. It is lie. Don't come with such lies again.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 04:40:49 AM
Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/vj53OR.png)

Because of pilots must use GPS or navigation systems; the systems lets them a place near to Ocenian countries. They are clearly using the wrong path, like how New Zealand pilots are doing while they run to Los Angeles. Similar problem.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/jy3dEJ.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 02, 2018, 05:09:16 AM
Quote
You are saying lie! When I click the link you gave and search for a flight:
Wrong and I can prove it
Please pay attention. I've already explained to you that there is ONE flight per week.
Here is it

(https://preview.ibb.co/mDoXim/ppt_ipc.png) (https://ibb.co/dbq1b6)

769 \$ is not really expensive for such a flight isn't it ?
Of course, when you book near flights, you pay more, but that's true for every destination...

Quote
https://www.flightnetwork.com/destinations/Easter-Island/Tahiti_Easter-Island.html
This is the link he gave. No flight! But it is easy to write a fable about past!
Well i't seems that you were wrong and it's not a fable. BTW I didn't provide this specific link.
Quote
I'm saying again, Latam airlines doesn't fly between Tahiti and Eastern Island. It is absent. It is lie. Don't come with such lies again.
Here you can see that they DO fly between Tahiti and Eastern Island. Right ?
Quote
I think you don't understand what you read. Article talking about "DEPARTURES!
Well I do, I speak french quite fluently. The link from the Faaa airport shows previous departures AND arrivals of REAL flights
Quote
Horaire des vols de TAHITI - FAAA Du lundi 22 Janvier 2018 au dimanche 28 Janvier 2018

Lundi 22 Janvier 2018
Arrivées :
TN101 LOS ANGELES (AA7171/ QF3816/ SB4411/ NZ4091) 0530
TN077 TOKYO (KE6701/JL5077) 0620
TN102 AUCKLAND (AA7176 / QF3815 / SB4410) 2230

Départs :
TN101 AUCKLAND (AA7177/ QF3816/ SB4411) 0755
TN711 ILE DE PAQUES (VOL CHARTER) 0830
TN102 LOS ANGELES (QF3815 / AA7176 /AF5103 / SB4410/NZ4092 ) 2359

Mardi 23 Janvier 2018
Arrivées :
TN007 PARIS / LOS ANGELES (AA7173 / NZ4097 / AF5102) 0045
LA833 SANTIAGO/ILE DE PAQUES 0100
NZ040 AUCKLAND 1625

Départs :
LA836 ILE DE PAQUES/SANTIAGO 0255
NZ041 AUCKLAND 1755
TN008 LOS ANGELES / PARIS (AA7174 / NZ4098) 2300
TN002 LOS ANGELES (QF3817 / AA7172 / NZ4092) 2359

Mercredi 24 Janvier 2018
Arrivées :
TN101 LOS ANGELES (QF3816 / AA7177 / NZ4091) 0530
TN712 ILES DE PAQUES (VOL CHARTER) 1800
TN102 AUCKLAND (AA7176 / QF3815 / NZ314) 2230
TN001 LOS ANGELES (QF3820 / AA7171 / NZ4093) 2240

Départs :
TN101 AUCKLAND (QF3816 / NZ315 / AA7177) 0755
TN102 LOS ANGELES (QF3815 / AA7176 / NZ4092) 2359

Jeudi 25 Janvier 2018

Arrivées :
AF076 PARIS / LOS ANGELES (DL8560) 0615
VT036 RAROTONGA (GZ036) 1820

Départs :
AF077 LOS ANGELES / PARIS (DL8567) 0825
VT035 RAROTONGA (GZ035) 1215
TN002 LOS ANGELES (QF3817 / AA7172 / NZ4092) 2359
Do you see the destinations ? For example AF077 going to Los Angeles then to Paris ?
Same thing for the LA836 going to Easter Island then to Santiago.
You are the one claiming the flight to LA valid, why the flight to Easter Island isn't a valid one ?
BTW, next week, you will find there the record of this week, if you dare search.

So, are you seriously saying that the airport is creating imaginary records of imaginary planes when there are only 3 or 4 international flights per day ?
How can they hide this missing flight? Please explain.
But don't believe me, let's check for the next flight. It's scheduled for 06/02/2018 Local Date departing from Faaa.
See ya next thursday ( mind that they follow  the GMT-10 time ), we'll check this together, ok ?

here :http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/index.php (http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/index.php)

Edit : typo
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 02, 2018, 05:18:18 AM
Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:

Because of pilots must use GPS or navigation systems; the systems lets them a place near to Ocenian countries. They are clearly using the wrong path, like how New Zealand pilots are doing while they run to Los Angeles. Similar problem.

So you are using flight times to find distances, but when the distances don't sum up with your theory you explain that the pilots are mistaken. They are sometimes taking the wrong route and sometimes not. Really ?
That's not very scientific. Give evidence other than saying " I'm Right"

And you still don't explain how you "correct" the distance from 9.518km to 5.819km

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 05:50:15 AM
Luanda

Luanda   Johannesburg   2485
Luanda   Casablanca   5206
Luanda   London   6827
Luanda   Amsterdam   6850
Luanda   Lagos   2015   corrected as 2147

Dar Essalaam

Dar esselam   Istanbul   5421   changed to 5648
Dar esselam   Johannesburg   2461
Dar esselam   Amsterdam   7342

Dar Essalaam is added with a perfect intersection. And colored as green for show its reliablility.

Nairobi

Nairobi   Johannesburg   2926 same
Nairobi   Lagos   3804 corrected as 4.685
4:49 B738 856 4.123
Nairobi   Dar Essalam   674 same
Nairobi   Istanbul   4768 same
Nairobi   London   6817 same
Nairobi   Amsterdam   6668 same

Djibouti   Nairobi   1590
Djibouti   Istanbul   3563 corrected as 4.003 kms.
5:20 B738 856 4.405

Tell me, if Djibouti close till 3.500kms, why "smart" Turkish airlines pilots can't go there less than 5:00 hours!!

Djibouti is added and colored blue.

Muscat (Oman)

3:36 B738 848
Muscat   Nairobi   3633 4.116
5:04 B732 842
Muscat   istanbul   3354 4.364
B738 5:17 856
Muscat   Delhi   1940 2.136
2:41 A321 825
Muscat   London   5830 5.763 corrected to 6.467
A333 6:56 864
B789 6:50 902

(https://i.hizliresim.com/rOM77P.png)

Once again! If Istanbul to Muscat distance as near as just 3.300kms, why smart Turkish Airlines pilots run that distance at least 5:00 hours! Why this hoax?

So I used flight times and corrected them.

Only London distance is changed and the others perfectly overlapped!

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bBDmjd.png)

How a perfect overlapping!

Muscat is added and colored as blue.

meanwhile, Russian cities that some of them added by estimation with google distances seems close to Middle east and far to the center. They will be corrected later but for now I changed their colors as magenta.

As a result;

Luanda, Dar Essalaam, Nairobi and Muscat are added.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/Vram6n.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 05:54:51 AM
Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:

Because of pilots must use GPS or navigation systems; the systems lets them a place near to Ocenian countries. They are clearly using the wrong path, like how New Zealand pilots are doing while they run to Los Angeles. Similar problem.

So you are using flight times to find distances, but when the distances don't sum up with your theory you explain that the pilots are mistaken. They are sometimes taking the wrong route and sometimes not. Really ?
That's not very scientific. Give evidence other than saying " I'm Right"

And you still don't explain how you "correct" the distance from 9.518km to 5.819km

Isn't it an explanation. Are you idiot?

Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/vj53OR.png)

Do I have to spend my time by answering your idiotic questions?

Where is the moderation? Is it a debate section?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on February 02, 2018, 06:37:44 AM
I have started to draw the map of the continents. A bit difficult in the scale you are using. But it seems to start to make sense. How does one shoe the other 3 wind directions on the map in relation to North?

Are you aware that you are speaking too much? Stop to talk anymore nonsence. Nobody ask you anything. If you want to play game, do it out of here. Here is not a kindergarden.
Well you asked for help to draw in the countries!!! Why am i talking too much??? I am asking a question whats the problem with that????

Do you have to show winds on the map? Come on, you are just kidding in your little mind. Be honest for a few time and get out of here.
who is talking about winds????? Wind directions ie South West and East! or maybe I should have said compass points? I dont know what else to call it. So if you have a better alternative please let me know. Somewhere in a previous post you mentioned airport x was (I think) south west of airport Y. Thats why I am asking the question!!!!!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: rvlvr on February 02, 2018, 07:41:54 AM
Are the map drawn and distances calculated by brotherhood of the dome accepted by InFlatEarth, Papa Legba, totallackey, and dutchy. Just wondering what they think of it.

I think brotherhood's version differs from the one proposed by Danang, at least.

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 02, 2018, 08:24:25 AM

Quote
Isn't it an explanation. Are you idiot?
I don't thnk so, but I do think you are attacking the person and not the argument
How you "correct" the distance from 9.518km to 5.819km, why 5819 and not 4876 km ?

Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:
(https://i.hizliresim.com/vj53OR.png)
Quote
Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:
Because of pilots must use GPS or navigation systems; the systems lets them a place near to Ocenian countries. They are clearly using the wrong path, like how New Zealand pilots are doing while they run to Los Angeles. Similar problem.

So you think that pilots are using GPS to navigate but fear to fly over the oceans  and have to keep some kind of visual over islands. They are almost doubling the flight time and are aware of that but no one can correct this.
They are using some hi-tech instruments but have to rely on the good old eyes to navigate.
Question: how do the find the route at night or when the groud is hidden by clouds?

Quote
Do I have to spend my time by answering your idiotic questions? Where is the moderation? Is it a debate section?
It's up to you but, well, this subforum is called Flat Earth General, and below the title, you can read:
Quote
For the discussion of any FE topics unrelated to Flat Earth Theory. FE conspiracy topics belong here
Noted the discussion word ? So no moderator will come to save you.

Let's sum up.
You called me a liar, and you were wrong, but cannot accept your mistake.
You cannot disprove that the flight Tahiti-Easter Island is real, trashing your South America-Polynesia -and by extension Australia- distances.
You think that pilots are sometimes lost, sometimes fearful, and fliying like in the 30s but sometimes can be also right on schedule. No worries, you know who is who.
You think that every flight time that do not fit into your agenda is suspicious, and there are a lot, but yet you have the "world's most accurate map ". Is this a scientific approach? No

Thank you for your time, have a nice week-end.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on February 02, 2018, 09:38:12 AM
Reason why planes dont fly over large oceans:
ETOPS (English pronunciation: /i:ˈtʰɒps/) is an aviation acronym for Extended Operations. The term used to signify Extended Range Operation with Two-Engine Airplanes but the meaning was changed by the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) when regulations were broadened to include aircraft with more than two engines.[1] It refers to the standards and recommended practices (SARPS) issued by ICAO for aircraft (such as the Airbus A300, A310, A320, A330 and A350, the Boeing 737, 757, 767, 777, 787, the Embraer E-Jets, and the ATR 72) to fly long-distance routes that had been off-limits to twin-engined aircraft, and subsequently to extended range operations of four-engined aircraft (such as the Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental).

In aviation vernacular, the colloquial backronym is "Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim", referring to the inevitable emergency water landing of a twin engine aircraft after a double engine failure over water outside gliding range of land. But ETOPS operation has no direct correlation to water or distance over water. It refers to flight times between diversion airports, regardless as to whether such fields are separated by water or land.

There are different levels of ETOPS certification, each allowing aircraft to fly on routes that are a certain amount of single-engine flying time away from the nearest suitable airport. For example, if an aircraft is certified for 180 minutes, it is permitted to fly any route not more than 180 minutes single-engine flying time to the nearest suitable airport.

According to the FAA in the Federal Register, "This final rule applies to air carrier (part 121), commuter, and on-demand (part 135) turbine powered multi-engine airplanes used in extended-range operations. However, all-cargo operations in airplanes with more than two engines of both part 121 and part 135 are exempted from the majority of this rule. Today's rule [January 16, 2007] establishes regulations governing the design, operation and maintenance of certain airplanes operated on flights that fly long distances from an adequate airport. This final rule codifies current FAA policy, industry best practices and recommendations, as well as international standards designed to ensure long-range flights will continue to operate safely."[2] Prior to 2007, FAA defined ETOPS as "Extended Range Operations with two-engine airplanes" and applied to twins only. International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Standard and Recommended Practice (SARP) applies only to twins and defines ETOPS as "Extended-range Twin-engine Operational Performance Standards".

ETOPS applies to twins on routes with diversion time more than 60 minutes at one-engine-inoperative speed. For rules that also cover more than two engines, as in the case of the FAA, ETOPS applies on routes with diversion time more than 180 minutes for airplanes with more than two engines.

Until the mid-1980s, the term EROPS (extended range operations) was used before being superseded by ETOPS usage. In 1997, when Boeing proposed to extend ETOPS authority for twins to beyond 180 minutes, Airbus proposed to replace ETOPS by a newer system, referred to as Long Range Operational Performance Standards (LROPS), which would affect all civil airliners, not just those with a twin-engine configuration with more than 180 minutes ETOPS. According to the FAA in 2007, "Several commenters … recommended use of the acronym "LROPS"—meaning 'Long Range Operations'—for three- and four-engine ETOPS, to avoid confusion, particularly for those operations beyond 180-minutes diversion time. The FAA has decided to use the single term, 'extended operations,' or ETOPS, for all affected operations regardless of the number of engines on the airplane."[3]

Government-owned aircraft (including military) do not have to adhere to ETOPS regulations.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 02, 2018, 10:01:07 AM
Nice find, but not relevant. The Tahiti-Tokyo route is always at less than 2 hours from a usable airport. Not to mention that Air Tahiti Nui uses exclusively quads (A340), not affected by ETOPS 120 limitations

Please note that Intikam's excuse is
Quote
Tahiti Pilots running close to Oceanian countries for don't be miss the route
.
We are not about the same issue.

However,  this ETOPS limitation explains nicely the different times for the Sao Paolo-Johannesburg, as LaTam 767s are impacted by it.

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 02, 2018, 10:42:51 AM

Quote
Isn't it an explanation. Are you idiot?
I don't thnk so, but I do think you are attacking the person and not the argument
How you "correct" the distance from 9.518km to 5.819km, why 5819 and not 4876 km ?

Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:
(https://i.hizliresim.com/vj53OR.png)
Quote
Why Tahiti-Tokyo path continues time longer than estimated:
Because of pilots must use GPS or navigation systems; the systems lets them a place near to Ocenian countries. They are clearly using the wrong path, like how New Zealand pilots are doing while they run to Los Angeles. Similar problem.

So you think that pilots are using GPS to navigate but fear to fly over the oceans  and have to keep some kind of visual over islands. They are almost doubling the flight time and are aware of that but no one can correct this.
They are using some hi-tech instruments but have to rely on the good old eyes to navigate.
Question: how do the find the route at night or when the groud is hidden by clouds?

Quote
Do I have to spend my time by answering your idiotic questions? Where is the moderation? Is it a debate section?
It's up to you but, well, this subforum is called Flat Earth General, and below the title, you can read:
Quote
For the discussion of any FE topics unrelated to Flat Earth Theory. FE conspiracy topics belong here
Noted the discussion word ? So no moderator will come to save you.

Let's sum up.
You called me a liar, and you were wrong, but cannot accept your mistake.
You cannot disprove that the flight Tahiti-Easter Island is real, trashing your South America-Polynesia -and by extension Australia- distances.
You think that pilots are sometimes lost, sometimes fearful, and fliying like in the 30s but sometimes can be also right on schedule. No worries, you know who is who.
You think that every flight time that do not fit into your agenda is suspicious, and there are a lot, but yet you have the "world's most accurate map ". Is this a scientific approach? No

Thank you for your time, have a nice week-end.

This is your end. I hope you a nice and fast end, ok?

I can not tell someones unable to understand.

If this continue like this, I must continue this working in a place you can not target me by your lyings.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Macarios on February 02, 2018, 12:07:31 PM
"If this continue like this" he will finally put the whole forum on his ignore list,
including some Flat Earthers who see flaws in his work and try to help. :-)
He's errorless, like Pope...
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: ER22 on February 02, 2018, 04:22:22 PM
Hey, Brotherhood of the Dome!
How's it going?

I hope your map is coming along, I'm sure it is.
Sure would like to see what you got so far.

Even a rough draft.
Or anything
At all
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on February 03, 2018, 03:06:04 AM
"If this continue like this" he will finally put the whole forum on his ignore list,
including some Flat Earthers who see flaws in his work and try to help. :-)
He's errorless, like Pope...
Give him a chance. I am dying to see the final result! I have never seen a proper FE map and he promised that he will make one so dont upset him please!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: robintex on February 03, 2018, 04:00:57 AM
I certainly hope the BTH (BroTherHood) Map is more accurate than the well known AEP.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 03, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
I'm not working on the map in weekends.

I explained that event, it is occurred by a sabotage made by NASA backed FETÖ hacker click in Turkey. Anyway. I decided do not work to map on weekend. I may continue this working in believers section. Because;

Because this working started as "common work". So I opened this topic here. But day by day, we saw that nobody contribute enough for this working. So in fact, to continue in this place is not required. Alhough I continue this working in a free place, people do not to recognize the value of it. That is, I mean, I continue in FE General longe that not required, and I'm getting unnecessary criticisms, cavalier attacks and  efforts of sabotage in the name of "helping or learning" forcing me to continue remain working in a section that I will not be disturbed.

Management was good at protecting it initially. but they started to loose afterwards. Of course, this work will already end. these blocking efforts have cause the lost a maximum of 2-3 days in total. It has been 2 months since the beginning of this work. It does not seem important  2 days. but if they go on like this, I can really think of it. then the people would say, "Look, they do not share with us, they do it on their own." I think this work should be open source. but these obstacles end up in the sense of "no you do not do this work with us, we will keep bothering you".

I usually speak very clearly, but I think what I meant is not understood at all the time by others.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 04, 2018, 09:58:01 PM
All the Russian cities are colored as magenta. They will be re-calculated.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/XPd26o.png)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 04, 2018, 11:06:52 PM
St. Petersburg

St. Petersburg was not stayed in the map for preventing the density on the map. Now it will be added for a better estimation of Russian cities.

St.Petersburg   Moscow 600 641
A320 0:58 686
B738 0:58 690

St.Petersburg   Helsinki 300 382
0:41 unknown 580

St.Petersburg   Istanbul 2.098 2454
A319 3:20 825
A321 2:50 825

St.Petersburg   Amsterdam 1.776 1853
B738 2:20 823

St.Petersburg   Tel Aviv 3.113 3535
A319 4:18 852

St.Petersburg   Beijing 6.063 6274
B787 7:12 903

St.Petersburg   Barcelona 2.824 3132
A320 3:56  843
A319 3:46 843

St.Petersburg   London 2.115 2456
A320 3:04 830

There is a place inside of all circles and close to the distances fair enough.

(https://i.hizliresim.com/azXP6g.png)

Because of it corrects all distances, so that St.Petersburg is added as first reliable point in Russia and colored as green.

Sounds like  St.Petersburg stayed close to Tromso. So that, Tromso and Nuuk together will be edited. So that color of Tromso is temporarily changed to magenta. They will be corrected later.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 04, 2018, 11:15:59 PM

This is your end. I hope you a nice and fast end, ok?

I can not tell someones unable to understand.

If this continue like this, I must continue this working in a place you can not target me by your lyings.

Not yet. You didn't disprove the flight from Tahiti to Easter Island.
You first said that i was lying. Then you realised that you could book the flight. So you said that the flight was too expensive to be real. I showed you that the fare was ok. I gave you the shedules and  predicted that tomorrow, the flight will appear in the airport logs.
If you can't disprove the flight you have to take it in account and this will ruin the position of NZ, Australia and all the surrounding islands.

You didn't explain what method you used to "correct" the distance from Tahiti to Tokyo. You only explained why airmen were allegedy wrong. I'm asking you for the calculations used to find the 5.819km distance.

You are saying that I'm a liar. Prove it.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 04, 2018, 11:22:19 PM
Take care where is St. Petersburg:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/bByQN0.png)

It stays "directly west" of Moscow. They are both have about same distance to the N point. Even Moscow stay a bit more North. We know Moscow is a colder place than St. Petersburg. Perhaps because of St. Petersburg is a sea side city.

According to 500 years google map, St. Petersburg stays North west of Moscow:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/2JjvDN.png)

So one of us deceiving the people. For understand the issue as better, lets look to the magnetic declination map:

(https://i.hizliresim.com/5DYpZA.png)

Moscow and St.Petersburg have about 11 degrees (so called) magnetic declination. It means, St. Petersburg stays about west of Moscow, if you use a compass. But 500 years google map claims "St. Petersburg in the North West, but if you use a compass, because of the magnetic declination, St. Petersburg stays in the west of Moscow!"

This is the answer of "who is the deceiver!".

Continue with Yekaterinburg...
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 04, 2018, 11:24:08 PM

This is your end. I hope you a nice and fast end, ok?

I can not tell someones unable to understand.

If this continue like this, I must continue this working in a place you can not target me by your lyings.

Not yet. You didn't disprove the flight from Tahiti to Easter Island.
You first said that i was lying. Then you realised that you could book the flight. So you said that the flight was too expensive to be real. I showed you that the fare was ok. I gave you the shedules and  predicted that tomorrow, the flight will appear in the airport logs.
If you can't disprove the flight you have to take it in account and this will ruin the position of NZ, Australia and all the surrounding islands.

You didn't explain what method you used to "correct" the distance from Tahiti to Tokyo. You only explained why airmen were allegedy wrong. I'm asking you for the calculations used to find the 5.819km distance.

You are saying that I'm a liar. Prove it.

I already proved. You are forcing me to stop working and continue to talk with you.

If your pointless claims continue, I either ignore you or continue this working in another section. Because of you are an alt of anyone and will get another membership, perhaps I'll continue this working in another place that you can not arrive.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 04, 2018, 11:32:02 PM
Although I warned both the moderators and the members together, my warning doesn't get considered. So that this topic no more will continue in this section.

This working will be continued in the section of:

Flat Earth Believers (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?board=8.0)

Topic: Flat Map Working: The world's most reliable map (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=74162.0)
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 05, 2018, 12:18:51 AM
I already proved. You are forcing me to stop working and continue to talk with you.

If your pointless claims continue, I either ignore you or continue this working in another section. Because of you are an alt of anyone and will get another membership, perhaps I'll continue this working in another place that you can not arrive.

You obviously failed and cannot answer to simple questions, so you evade. Well, it's up to you.
Have a nice day!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 06, 2018, 01:47:18 AM
Hello Intikam. As promised, i'm gathering the data for the incoming Easter Island -> Tahiti flight.
Let's take a look at the airport realtime schedule
http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/ (http://www.tahiti-aeroport.pf/)

(http://preview.ibb.co/h4Cptx/A1.png) (http://ibb.co/bXPPRH)
Note the LA833 flight expected at 00:25.

Let's track it on flightaware:
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LAN833 (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/LAN833)

(http://preview.ibb.co/hzN00c/A2.png) (http://ibb.co/n80W6H)

Arrival Time 00:21

Now a little search on Latam.com
https://www.latam.com/en_us/apps/personas/flightstatus#origin-destination/IPC/PPT/2018/2/5 (https://www.latam.com/en_us/apps/personas/flightstatus#origin-destination/IPC/PPT/2018/2/5)

(http://preview.ibb.co/h3u50c/A3.png) (http://ibb.co/fOaZtx)

Arrival time 00:21

Well this matches perfectly. Please note that the flight is ahead on schedule and the three sites have successfully updated the information.

Do you still think this flight is a fake ? No way. Three independent sources have tracked it.

Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Antonio on February 06, 2018, 02:44:25 AM
Now The plane has landed at 00:21, and they are checking in for the return trip LA 836 Tahiti-> Easter island.

(https://s17.postimg.org/nbe378gun/image.png) (https://postimages.org/)

Estimated time for departure 02:55.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: wise on February 19, 2018, 02:11:20 AM
(http://i.hizliresim.com/BLLdn9.png)

Today he was active but waiting without post anything. Lets look his post and see who is his heroe.

(http://i.hizliresim.com/Vrr7Or.png)

(http://i.hizliresim.com/oOOmWk.png)

(http://i.hizliresim.com/EPP0d8.png)

(http://i.hizliresim.com/gOOG0R.png)

(http://i.hizliresim.com/D77AvO.png)

(http://i.hizliresim.com/lOOD5b.png)

As everybody here can see that, since July 2016; ie since 1 years and 6 months, this things seem like human only taking me as an address. In other say, including Sandokhan, Sickinoz and other authors, this man doesn't get adress anybody except me. In other say, he doesn't give any value anybody here, except me.

In other say, this is a bot somebody pushed his "on" button.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: Straight on June 01, 2018, 06:28:49 PM
What happened to this thread? Why is nobody contributing anymore? THERE IS WORK TO BE DONE, RESEARCH TO COMPLETE, EARTH TO MAP!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: boydster on June 01, 2018, 06:35:11 PM
Inky come back!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: rabinoz on June 01, 2018, 06:37:45 PM
What happened to this thread? Why is nobody contributing anymore? THERE IS WORK TO BE DONE, RESEARCH TO COMPLETE, EARTH TO MAP!
Probably because brotherhood of the dome and everybody else decided that an accurate flat earth map is impossible.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: rabinoz on June 01, 2018, 06:38:45 PM
Inky come back!
Are you a sadist or a masochist?
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: boydster on June 01, 2018, 06:56:58 PM
Inky come back!
Are you a sadist or a masochist?

Both. I hear those words, sung by No Mercy, and I just can't stop hearing it.

Inky come back,
You can blame it all on me!
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: rabinoz on June 02, 2018, 12:11:00 AM
Inky come back!
Are you a sadist or a masochist?

Both. I hear those words, sung by No Mercy, and I just can't stop hearing it.

Inky come back,
You can blame it all on me!
The place just isn't the same without him.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: SpaceCadet on June 02, 2018, 06:08:03 AM
Inky come back!
Are you a sadist or a masochist?

Both. I hear those words, sung by No Mercy, and I just can't stop hearing it.

Inky come back,
You can blame it all on me!
The place just isn't the same without him.

Yeah. The egos left are not as large. Also way fewer insults.
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: dumbass on June 02, 2018, 11:14:55 AM
Although I warned both the moderators and the members together, my warning doesn't get considered. So that this topic no more will continue in this section.

This working will be continued in the section of:

Flat Earth Believers

Topic: Flat Map Working: The world's most reliable map
Title: Re: The world's most accurate map
Post by: boydster on June 02, 2018, 07:09:55 PM
Although I warned both the moderators and the members together, my warning doesn't get considered. So that this topic no more will continue in this section.

This working will be continued in the section of:

Flat Earth Believers

Topic: Flat Map Working: The world's most reliable map