Scientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners
In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth; they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars. It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures. Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action, or that the sign under which one was born determines one's compatibility or incompatibility with other people.
Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.
One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly, and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.
It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary.
Sponsoring Committee
(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)
Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona
Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California
Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo
In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up, has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be. We start here at part I:
ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED
The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'
The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.I can't argue with this. I'm far more likely to be up and active whilst the sun is up and far more likely to be in bed when it is dark.
Indeed! The plane truth is often hard to argue with. So clear it is that the heavenly bodies affect our lives!QuoteThe effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.I can't argue with this. I'm far more likely to be up and active whilst the sun is up and far more likely to be in bed when it is dark.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.
Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.
Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...
There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.
Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.
There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.
Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...
There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.
Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.
There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.
Ok! Let's assume there is a god. Or a lot of them. But let's assume there is just one.
Now that we have our god, we can ask him why he is such a fucken asshole!
If someday I find that there is a god I will not worship such a malevolent creature.
Watch this video. It summarises my position about gods.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.
Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...
There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.
Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.
There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.
Ok! Let's assume there is a god. Or a lot of them. But let's assume there is just one.
Now that we have our god, we can ask him why he is such a fucken asshole!
If someday I find that there is a god I will not worship such a malevolent creature.
Watch this video. It summarises my position about gods.
I can think of one counter argument; I believe the Apocrypha of John disagrees. Certainly the creator in Gnosticism is a fool that has created us a world of suffering. The highest unknowable god, is a different story. This explains many of the sufferings in the world. In this case, you would be worshiping the highest unknowable god.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.Incorrect. God is all around you. You just need to open your eyes and your heart.
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.Incorrect. God is all around you. You just need to open your eyes and your heart.
Apparently you think that metaphors are tricky too and choose to leave them to the professionals as well.God does a pretty good job hiding himself.Incorrect. God is all around you. You just need to open your eyes and your heart.
Heart opening is a tricky deal, better leave that to professionals.
About the vision sense I took look and didn't find any god on sight. Sorry.That's probably because it's hard to see things that you don't believe in.
It's even harder to see things that don't exist.Apparently you think that metaphors are tricky too and choose to leave them to the professionals as well.God does a pretty good job hiding himself.Incorrect. God is all around you. You just need to open your eyes and your heart.
Heart opening is a tricky deal, better leave that to professionals.About the vision sense I took look and didn't find any god on sight. Sorry.That's probably because it's hard to see things that you don't believe in.
Before we go any further, will you please clarify something?
Have you, yourself, actually read the 'manifesto' you refer to, or are you relying on a third party (Feyerabend, et al.) report of what it said? It sounds like you're doing the latter, but maybe I misunderstand what you said.
If you do have the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, would it be possible for you to scan the article in question, or provide a link to the content, so we can read what it says for ourselves, instead of having to rely on what you say it says, or, worse, what you say someone else says it says? If you have not seen the original article, please say so. If you have read it, but cannot provide a way for us to see the content itself, also, please say so.
Until your familiarity with the actual assertions you object to can be reasonably established and a way to verify your assertions are based on the text itself, there's not much to discuss.
With a distinguished cadre of writers covering everything from science and religion to media and technology to politics and popular culture, the Humanist continues to challenge readers with insightful ethical critique and commentary on the central issues of our time.
Fairytales, and fables, and the whole lot are processes born out of generations and generations of social evolved information. You can even pretty easily show there's overlying and consistent arches across the stories of all nations of the world.
It would seem foolish to discard this one tradition of knowledge completely simply because one favors another a bit more. There are countless examples of religious experience causing huge scientific breakthroughs.
This could not be more true of astrology. Also, a belief that passes through several places, locations, times, and whats more than this - they all say the same thing. The heavens have an affect on our future. Only since the emergence of science as a profession, mind you not a search of knowledge anymore, we see a growing hate for any tradition or idea that is outside of the tyrant of sciences scope.
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.
Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.
Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...
What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.
Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...
What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.
So you need god to tell you that murder is wrong? Do you not realise how bad that makes you look......
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.
Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...
What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.
So you need god to tell you that murder is wrong? Do you not realise how bad that makes you look......
You missed the point of his post.
If you would like to learn more, there is a thread in the political forum where morals are discussed and their origins.
As for Gumby, I would say not to spend much time with him, it would be a loss to the one making the attempt.
He is the word for word stereotypical angry, irrational, closed minded atheist blowhard. I actually feel pity for him, not anger.
I must say that everyone that believes in gods is stupid and ignorant and gullible and irrational and prone to be deceived by confidence tricksters.
I pitty all the imbeciles that finance churches and priests and rabis and all those conmen that make a good living doing nothing more than selling illusions.
I also pity those who try to find ansers in books written by half savages in remote times.
May all the gods bless you all.
I must say that everyone that believes in gods is stupid and ignorant and gullible and irrational and prone to be deceived by confidence tricksters.
I pitty all the imbeciles that finance churches and priests and rabis and all those conmen that make a good living doing nothing more than selling illusions.
I also pity those who try to find ansers in books written by half savages in remote times.
May all the gods bless you all.
So, what you are saying is that the follow list of people are stupid, ignorant, gullible, irrational, and prone to be deceived by con artists?
Einstein
Newton
Tesla
Mendel
Kepler
Darwin
Francis S. Collins, director of the Human Genome Project
Francis Bacon, Founder of the Scientific Method
Maria Mitchell, Americas first woman astronomer
Carl Sagan
Francis Collins is the director of the National Institutes of Health
Thomas Aquinas
... etc ...
You are just a bigot hiding behind the popularity of atheism.
Believing in any God makes someone an idiot? My money says "in God we trust", the people who made it must have been idiots in your book. Why is rape bad if there is no God? Why not lie and steal? There is no punishment awaiting you if you can get away with it! What a fool you are, athiest.Yes it makes.
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."
Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?
Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."
Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?
Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.
Astrology is still bullshit.
Been checked out for Cancer lately?Astrology is still bullshit.My horoscope said I would encounter a cranky crab on the internet today.
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.
Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...
What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.
Astrology is still bullshit.
My horoscope said I would encounter a cranky crab on the internet today.
<Insert your sign here>
You are a good person, but something may happen to challenge that.
Be respectful of people with whom you may disagree.
You overreact occasionally, this is not the time.
Mars is nearing the butthole of Torus, Saturn is also a planet.
Just know; it will all work out fine.
Sometimes I think that most of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk of being a little vulgar it often seems thatsemper in faecibus sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
Your formatting is worse than mine! I was going to FTFY but got lost in the excreta!Let me fix that for you . . . . . .
Sometimes I think that most of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk of being a little vulgar it often seems thatsemper in faecibus sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)Sometimes I think that mostof you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the riskof being a little vulgar it often seems thatsemper in faecibus (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
I have waders. ;)
Call it a draw? ;DI concede, you can draw better that I can too!
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."
Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?
Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.
Moron...
IN GOD WE TRUST.It doesn't say which one.
Still waiting on the bible verses encouring rape and slavery... Oh wait, gumby was lying.The rules of siege warfare in Europe (up until a few hundred years ago) were based on Deuteronomy 20:
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."
Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?
Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.
Moron...
Ill take that as a no, gumby doesnt have time to read the Bible! Even if youre not american, its currency affects you, and american currency says IN GOD WE TRUST. Ya might wanna read the book.
Still waiting on the bible verses encouring rape and slavery... Oh wait, gumby was lying.
Yes, the Lord can be furious in his punishment of the wicked. But i still fail to see any verses saying "Raping women is good".
Also like a stated only 3 posts ago, the book of Deuteronomy is a law set given to the Jewish nation only. They are Gods chosen people, but disgraced him at every turn! That is why Jesus was sent to warn them of their wrong doings, but they killed him! So Gods love was made available to Jews and Gentiles alike, if only they follow Jesus and trust in the Lord. However, akin to the entire Old testament, Jews remain stubborn and reject Gods word. They are supposed to make burnt offerings, and a temple in Jerusalem where the Lord resides! Where are these things? Why do they not practice the entire teachings of the Lord, if they claim their ways are righteous. There are some called Messianic Jews, they see the light and the truth. But most Jews are like most Christians now a days. They say they believe in God and trust in him, yet they sin day after day after day after day! They have been fooled into thinking sin is unavoidable! Theyll say oh getting drunk is not a sin! Smoking weed is not a sin! Lust is not a sin! Cursing is not a sin! They dont care! Theyll have covetnesss and greed in their heart and wont think twice about the Bible on a daily basis, yet they still say oh yes im a Jew or Christian. Adding hypocrisy to their sins...
Turn from your sin. The only person you are hurting by embracing what you know to be wrong is yourself. Obey the Lord God. Follow Jesus.
Your conscience is proof that God exists. Only a fool mocks the existence of God. Do you believe in morals or logic? How can you prove they exist? You cannot touch them, see them, hear them, smell them, or taste them, but im sure you believe in tchem. So why not God?
Wow, im so persuaded by your well thought out response.
Your conscience is proof that God exists. Only a fool mocks the existence of God. Do you believe in morals or logic? How can you prove they exist? You cannot touch them, see them, hear them, smell them, or taste them, but im sure you believe in them. So why not God?
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
I cant understand your question.
I believe in the God of the bible.
When was the last time you read it?
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
I cant understand your question.
I believe in the God of the bible.
When was the last time you read it?
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
I cant understand your question.
I believe in the God of the bible.
When was the last time you read it?
Give me one good reason to read the bible.
By the way, prove the authenticity of the bible.
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
I cant understand your question.
I believe in the God of the bible.
When was the last time you read it?
If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.
I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.
A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion
And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.
How does this fit in that moral thing?
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
I cant understand your question.
I believe in the God of the bible.
When was the last time you read it?
If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.
I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.
A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion
And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.
How does this fit in that moral thing?
Christian god, Jewish god, Muslim god, Hindu god, ..... so many gods!
Do they fight together, or are they in good terms unlike us?
Does each and every one of them have his own kingdom and territory?
Do they have differences in opinion about human fate in general, or is each god assigned to a certain group of people?
Can we expect them to have a difference in opinion and maybe fight over an issue, and see flying planets thrown from different directions?
Do they have a council to resolve disputes?
Would that council have a president like or a leader or maybe one of the elderly?
Would that elder be the one and only God?
If he is so, why would he need other gods beside him if he's capable of controlling everything?
Could the problem be in us when each & every individual start proclaiming the possession of that higher deity/ God, like a trade mark - a property of him & of his followers?
In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up, has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be. We start here at part I:
ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED
The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'
They are not interested in learned subjects here clearly - they act religiously. Now, mind you when I say religiously here what I, like the average globularist, actually mean is dogmatically; this is in contra-distinction to the definition I so often lean to from William James which I hold in the more general and less specific sense.
They are clearly trying to delude the mind of the common man with their position of power. Some have gone so far as to show the structure of this document was a replica of the Roman Catholic book on witchcraft. We will now destroy these myths, and publicly humiliate all those great men who signed such a ridiculous document. No, we will be kind enough not to 'name names.'
The Obvious Truth
Let us set aside now greater matters - that of the shape of the earth - and examine only those at hand. Don't worry flatists - we will come full circle and address the elephant in the room. The arguments presented will assume neither side, yet will fit the common flat earth model as well as the globular one. First we will turn to the definition presented here.
'the assumption that celestial events such as the positions of the planets, of the moon, of the sun influence human affairs'
This is the definition we will use for astrology. Here the avid Christian might laugh - there is no doubt from biblical context that these bodies indeed influence the earth. However, we march bravely on and face the fool on his own hill.
There is no doubt to the always staunt scientist that the heavenly bodies have a body of plasmas that are in a delicate balance with that of the sun. This of course is influenced by the relative placement of the planets - flat or round. For example, Bill Nye might find himself quite titillated at the thought that this interaction - and careful knowledge of the system at hand and the positions of the planets can predict solar disturbances with ridiculous clarity, in model independent mathematics. DeGrace just wouldn't know what he was looking at, but we all know what a silly man he is.
Further more, solar activity - and lunar as we know from other sources - has an almost all invasive hold on not only the basic functions of life itself, but of even chemical reactions. Though we've always known this; at least since Plato. More recently, the electric potential of trees depends not only on the activity of the sun, but on flares - which obviously tie to the position of the planets.
If you are an older fellow you might even remember the harvest moon - or not to put fish out in the dark of night. Now a days we go mad for 'super moons'. Or heck, the interested fellow can direct himself to the nearest hospital. Here, he or she may ask the staff bluntly - 'do the crazies come out on the full moon?' This has particular effect on an actual full moon.
There is no doubt that any reasonable or reasonable led force (such as evolution) would lead us to a state that is not to appear as random chance and to appear created.
The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.
Is there not always a chaos to the order? What of Sierpinski and his marvelous triangle? Even but a smidgen of order or evolution or holiness introduced into a chaotic system brings upon that system its own order - such that it can realize even in a pyramid of triangles in the simplest case. I digress...
There is no doubt the seasons affect our disposition. So much so, the ever growing book of psychological disorders now includes disorders for each season! The tale of astrology seems a little more likely, once we start talking about it discretely, doesn't it?
I do not have a physical copy, but it has been widely distributed. I source Feyerabend rather than others like Kurtz because I lean on some of his arguments - however the article is fairly well known and referenced in many astrological apologetics. I have reproduced it below:
Objections to Astrology
A Statement by 186 Leading Scientists
(The following statement first appeared in The Humanist of September/October 1975.)QuoteScientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners
In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth; they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars. It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures. Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action, or that the sign under which one was born determines one's compatibility or incompatibility with other people.
Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.
One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly, and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.
It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary.
Sponsoring Committee
(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)
Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona
Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California
Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo
The fact of the matter is that many of these signees know nothing about the subject matter which they claim false - this is evidenced by interviews with the subjects after the fact. Our friends at the BBC attempted to interview many of these nobel prizewinners and they declined - stating that they knew nothing of astrology and never studied it. Not only this, but within they make wild claims that 'In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view.' Where exactly did these men come by their convictions here? Not a one of them is an anthropologist...
Furthermore, I have shown with little to no effort that their base statement: "It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" is complete bullocks. No argument is given here, except religious declaration, which I have shown false by simple use of solar flares.
Let us continue to show these men as religious nut jobs.
Oysters open and close their shells based on lunar events. Potatoes as well have their own lunar period. And man? what of him? Well, for one, solar flares have been linked to higher rates of cancer in pilots and astro'nots'. Some have even seen a brilliant flash of light due to them! This is an obvious fact. Standford goes so far as to call it 'space weather.' There is also no doubt that the movement of the heavenly bodies affects our seasons. Many insects are also affected by the heavenly bodies. One simply needs to shake a stick to find it pointing towards more evidence.
However, to full attack the claim "it is a mistake to imagine... [the] stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" let us look at a 2012 study by Queen Mary University, London. In it, we see that month of birth indeed played quite the role in a great many lives. Winter babies are at the greatest risk for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder; spring babies depression. Other months show lows for these traits, thus again providing a correlative link between the planets locations and the 'shape of our futures'.
You can hardly pick out a sentence without finding complete bullocks. "They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. " Is it not quite the popular opinion among scientists, and demonstrably some of those signees, that determinism is a valid point of view?
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
I cant understand your question.
I believe in the God of the bible.
When was the last time you read it?
If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.
I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.
A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion
And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.
How does this fit in that moral thing?
That list applies only to Jews. Read the Bible! Youre taking things out of context!
Also tell me, whats the difference between the "Christian God" and the "Jewish God".
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.
I feel sorry for the christians.
Their parents love god above all things, so, their children come second, best case scenario!
It's hard to be less loved than a fictional character.
And any person that puts their children in second place is not only cruel but also a complete moron.
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.
Wow! A well thought out, mature response.
Youre really just proving my point you know that?
Keep struggling to offend people that dont agree with your worldviews, Gumby, that seems to be your purpose here right?
Youre right, it doesnt work if you keep sinning and disobey God. Why would he listen to people who dont listen to him!?
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Only to mention a few things.
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Only to mention a few things.
Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.
Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.
Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.
Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?
Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?
So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Only to mention a few things.
Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.
Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.
Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.
Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?
Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?
So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.
All that is from the Bible not from the Tora.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Only to mention a few things.
Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.
Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.
Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.
Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?
Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?
So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.
All that is from the Bible not from the Tora.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.
You do realize that the Torah is just the first five books of the Old Testament Bible. The Torah is the Bible.
So yes, if all Jews were actually following their scriptures, they are SUPPOSED to be kiling homosexuals, cursing children and the like.
But they dont! They dont even follow any other rule either, many Jews eat bacon, work on saturdays, curse often, get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, their all about sin sin sin. Just like many professing Christians!
This world is just full of people who aknowledge the existance of God, yet lack the will to actually obey him. They obey the doctrine of man instead.
Its about time that people woke up from their inequity and began a new age, which i believe starts with the dismantling and dismemberment of the Freemasons. They promote wickedness.
Fear no man,
Fear God.
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.
Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.
I mean its not like Gods important or anything...
Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.
Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.
So yeah, its just imaginary right?
Lol
"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
Only to mention a few things.
Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.
Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.
Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.
Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?
Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?
So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.
All that is from the Bible not from the Tora.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.
You do realize that the Torah is just the first five books of the Old Testament Bible. The Torah is the Bible.
So yes, if all Jews were actually following their scriptures, they are SUPPOSED to be kiling homosexuals, cursing children and the like.
But they dont! They dont even follow any other rule either, many Jews eat bacon, work on saturdays, curse often, get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, their all about sin sin sin. Just like many professing Christians!
This world is just full of people who aknowledge the existance of God, yet lack the will to actually obey him. They obey the doctrine of man instead.
Its about time that people woke up from their inequity and began a new age, which i believe starts with the dismantling and dismemberment of the Freemasons. They promote wickedness.
Fear no man,
Fear God.
wow for that you say your are living according to the bible a obeying it you have not very much knowledge of the bible.
or even a knowledge about anything.
The fools response speaks for itself.
Feel free to provide proof that I am wrong instead of typing inane babble.
Read the Bible.
Its enlightening.
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."
-Isaiah 7:14
Obey God.
Follow Jesus.
As Bill Clinton I can confirm.
The sky is a hologram and astrology is another trick to fool you that the earth is round.
Yes, the Lord can be furious in his punishment of the wicked... the book of Deuteronomy is a law set given to the Jewish nation only. They are Gods chosen people, but disgraced him at every turn! That is why Jesus was sent to warn them of their wrong doings, but they killed him! So Gods love was made available to Jews and Gentiles alike, if only they follow Jesus and trust in the Lord.
Yo you pickin a fight with my man bill?As Bill Clinton I can confirm.
The sky is a hologram and astrology is another trick to fool you that the earth is round.
From Bill, "what are you fucking retarded"
To believe you are BC, I would have to be retarded!
Plus, I seem to recall that there are no source references or citations in the Torah or the Bible. Hardly reliable...
Plus, I seem to recall that there are no source references or citations in the Torah or the Bible. Hardly reliable...
If it aint sourced from .gov it aint truth! Am i right?
My point, which you appear to have missed, is that the Torah and the Bible may be held to be true by some people, but that does not make them true.
My point, which you appear to have missed, is that the Torah and the Bible may be held to be true by some people, but that does not make them true.
Did you know that the Old Testament Bible is just the Torah with a few bits added?
Or is it the other way around?
Obviously. Christ came after Moses. There could be no Christians without Christ. I dont know what youre reading but the Torah and the Old Testament come from the same ancient writings. There should be no difference. I meant the other way around as in often times the BIBLE is the one with extra bits added, through translation, that decieve people enough to hate God.I'm just curious, since you think the Free Masons are a great conspiracy on the land, why wouldn't you think religion is just another conspiracy. If it is, then it has far longer reach and impact on people's lives than any Mason or Shriner has ever had.
Obviously. Christ came after Moses. There could be no Christians without Christ. I dont know what youre reading but the Torah and the Old Testament come from the same ancient writings. There should be no difference. I meant the other way around as in often times the BIBLE is the one with extra bits added, through translation, that decieve people enough to hate God.
I have not but will research it, thank you.In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up, has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.
The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be. We start here at part I:
ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED
The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'
They are not interested in learned subjects here clearly - they act religiously. Now, mind you when I say religiously here what I, like the average globularist, actually mean is dogmatically; this is in contra-distinction to the definition I so often lean to from William James which I hold in the more general and less specific sense.
They are clearly trying to delude the mind of the common man with their position of power. Some have gone so far as to show the structure of this document was a replica of the Roman Catholic book on witchcraft. We will now destroy these myths, and publicly humiliate all those great men who signed such a ridiculous document. No, we will be kind enough not to 'name names.'
The Obvious Truth
Let us set aside now greater matters - that of the shape of the earth - and examine only those at hand. Don't worry flatists - we will come full circle and address the elephant in the room. The arguments presented will assume neither side, yet will fit the common flat earth model as well as the globular one. First we will turn to the definition presented here.
'the assumption that celestial events such as the positions of the planets, of the moon, of the sun influence human affairs'
This is the definition we will use for astrology. Here the avid Christian might laugh - there is no doubt from biblical context that these bodies indeed influence the earth. However, we march bravely on and face the fool on his own hill.
There is no doubt to the always staunt scientist that the heavenly bodies have a body of plasmas that are in a delicate balance with that of the sun. This of course is influenced by the relative placement of the planets - flat or round. For example, Bill Nye might find himself quite titillated at the thought that this interaction - and careful knowledge of the system at hand and the positions of the planets can predict solar disturbances with ridiculous clarity, in model independent mathematics. DeGrace just wouldn't know what he was looking at, but we all know what a silly man he is.
Further more, solar activity - and lunar as we know from other sources - has an almost all invasive hold on not only the basic functions of life itself, but of even chemical reactions. Though we've always known this; at least since Plato. More recently, the electric potential of trees depends not only on the activity of the sun, but on flares - which obviously tie to the position of the planets.
If you are an older fellow you might even remember the harvest moon - or not to put fish out in the dark of night. Now a days we go mad for 'super moons'. Or heck, the interested fellow can direct himself to the nearest hospital. Here, he or she may ask the staff bluntly - 'do the crazies come out on the full moon?' This has particular effect on an actual full moon.
There is no doubt that any reasonable or reasonable led force (such as evolution) would lead us to a state that is not to appear as random chance and to appear created.
The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.
Is there not always a chaos to the order? What of Sierpinski and his marvelous triangle? Even but a smidgen of order or evolution or holiness introduced into a chaotic system brings upon that system its own order - such that it can realize even in a pyramid of triangles in the simplest case. I digress...
There is no doubt the seasons affect our disposition. So much so, the ever growing book of psychological disorders now includes disorders for each season! The tale of astrology seems a little more likely, once we start talking about it discretely, doesn't it?
I do not have a physical copy, but it has been widely distributed. I source Feyerabend rather than others like Kurtz because I lean on some of his arguments - however the article is fairly well known and referenced in many astrological apologetics. I have reproduced it below:
Objections to Astrology
A Statement by 186 Leading Scientists
(The following statement first appeared in The Humanist of September/October 1975.)QuoteScientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners
In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth; they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars. It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures. Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action, or that the sign under which one was born determines one's compatibility or incompatibility with other people.
Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.
One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly, and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.
It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary.
Sponsoring Committee
(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)
Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona
Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California
Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo
The fact of the matter is that many of these signees know nothing about the subject matter which they claim false - this is evidenced by interviews with the subjects after the fact. Our friends at the BBC attempted to interview many of these nobel prizewinners and they declined - stating that they knew nothing of astrology and never studied it. Not only this, but within they make wild claims that 'In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view.' Where exactly did these men come by their convictions here? Not a one of them is an anthropologist...
Furthermore, I have shown with little to no effort that their base statement: "It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" is complete bullocks. No argument is given here, except religious declaration, which I have shown false by simple use of solar flares.
Let us continue to show these men as religious nut jobs.
Oysters open and close their shells based on lunar events. Potatoes as well have their own lunar period. And man? what of him? Well, for one, solar flares have been linked to higher rates of cancer in pilots and astro'nots'. Some have even seen a brilliant flash of light due to them! This is an obvious fact. Standford goes so far as to call it 'space weather.' There is also no doubt that the movement of the heavenly bodies affects our seasons. Many insects are also affected by the heavenly bodies. One simply needs to shake a stick to find it pointing towards more evidence.
However, to full attack the claim "it is a mistake to imagine... [the] stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" let us look at a 2012 study by Queen Mary University, London. In it, we see that month of birth indeed played quite the role in a great many lives. Winter babies are at the greatest risk for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder; spring babies depression. Other months show lows for these traits, thus again providing a correlative link between the planets locations and the 'shape of our futures'.
You can hardly pick out a sentence without finding complete bullocks. "They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. " Is it not quite the popular opinion among scientists, and demonstrably some of those signees, that determinism is a valid point of view?
Have you ever heard of astrotheology? Astrotheology deals with the rotation of the heavens above us, and how they have an effect on earth's physical phenomenon. You'll also discover why the Mayan calendar ended in 2012. You'll also begin understanding the mythological Moses exodus from Egypt. Astrology is the religious{for lack of a better word}, component of astrotheology. It was probably the Mayans that gave us astrology, for they had some complicated charts that each person received upon their birth. These charts directed what the individual did for the rest of their lives.
Yeah, so try to find faithful translations.
King James, New King James and Evangelical Bibles seem well tranlsated.
You sound very hostile for someone agreeing with me.