The Flat Earth Society

Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth General => Topic started by: Username on February 10, 2017, 05:15:43 PM

Title: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 10, 2017, 05:15:43 PM
In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up,  has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be.  We start here at part I:

ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED


The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'

 They are not interested in learned subjects here clearly - they act religiously. Now, mind you when I say religiously here what I, like the average globularist, actually mean is dogmatically; this is in contra-distinction to the definition I so often lean to from William James which I hold in the more general and less specific sense.

They are clearly trying to delude the mind of the common man with their position of power. Some have gone so far as to show the structure of this document was a replica of the Roman Catholic book on witchcraft. We will now destroy these myths, and publicly humiliate all those great men who signed such a ridiculous document. No, we will be kind enough not to 'name names.'

The Obvious Truth
Let us set aside now greater matters - that of the shape of the earth - and examine only those at hand. Don't worry flatists - we will come full circle and address the elephant in the room. The arguments presented will assume neither side, yet will fit the common flat earth model as well as the globular one. First we will turn to the definition presented here.

'the assumption that celestial events such as the positions of the planets, of the moon, of the sun influence human affairs'

This is the definition we will use for astrology. Here the avid Christian might laugh - there is no doubt from biblical context that these bodies indeed influence the earth. However, we march bravely on and face the fool on his own hill.

There is no doubt to the always staunt scientist that the heavenly bodies have a body of plasmas that are in a delicate balance with that of the sun. This of course is influenced by the relative placement of the planets - flat or round. For example, Bill Nye might find himself quite titillated at the thought that this interaction - and careful knowledge of the system at hand and the positions of the planets can predict solar disturbances with ridiculous clarity, in model independent mathematics. DeGrace just wouldn't know what he was looking at, but we all know what a silly man he is.

Further more, solar activity - and lunar as we know from other sources - has an almost all invasive hold on not only the basic functions of life itself, but of even chemical reactions. Though we've always known this; at least since Plato. More recently, the electric potential of trees depends not only on the activity of the sun, but on flares - which obviously tie to the position of the planets.

If you are an older fellow you might even remember the harvest moon - or not to put fish out in the dark of night. Now a days we go mad for 'super moons'.  Or heck, the interested fellow can direct himself to the nearest hospital. Here, he or she may ask the staff bluntly - 'do the crazies come out on the full moon?' This has particular effect on an actual full moon.

There is no doubt that any reasonable or reasonable led force (such as evolution) would lead us to a state that is not to appear as random chance and to appear created.

The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.

Is there not always a chaos to the order? What of Sierpinski and his marvelous triangle? Even but a smidgen of order or evolution or holiness introduced into a chaotic system brings upon that system its own order - such that it can realize even in a pyramid of triangles in the simplest case. I digress...

There is no doubt the seasons affect our disposition. So much so, the ever growing book of psychological disorders now includes disorders for each season! The tale of astrology seems a little more likely, once we start talking about it discretely, doesn't it?





I do not have a physical copy, but it has been widely distributed. I source Feyerabend rather than others like Kurtz because I lean on some of his arguments - however the article is fairly well known and referenced in many astrological apologetics. I have reproduced it below:

Objections to Astrology

A Statement by 186 Leading Scientists

(The following statement first appeared in The Humanist of September/October 1975.)
Quote
Scientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.

In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth; they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars. It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures. Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action, or that the sign under which one was born determines one's compatibility or incompatibility with other people.

Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.

One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly, and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.

It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary.

Sponsoring Committee

(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)

Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona

Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California

Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo
Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners

The fact of the matter is that many of these signees know nothing about the subject matter which they claim false - this is evidenced by interviews with the subjects after the fact. Our friends at the BBC attempted to interview many of these nobel prizewinners and they declined - stating that they knew nothing of astrology and never studied it. Not only this, but within they make wild claims that 'In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view.' Where exactly did these men come by their convictions here? Not a one of them is an anthropologist...

Furthermore, I have shown with little to no effort that their base statement: "It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" is complete bullocks. No argument is given here, except religious declaration, which I have shown false by simple use of solar flares.

Let us continue to show these men as religious nut jobs.

Oysters open and close their shells based on lunar events. Potatoes as well have their own lunar period. And man? what of him? Well, for one, solar flares have been linked to higher rates of cancer in pilots and astro'nots'. Some have even seen a brilliant flash of light due to them! This is an obvious fact. Standford goes so far as to call it 'space weather.' There is also no doubt that the movement of the heavenly bodies affects our seasons. Many insects are also affected by the heavenly bodies. One simply needs to shake a stick to find it pointing towards more evidence.

However, to full attack the claim "it is a mistake to imagine... [the] stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" let us look at a 2012 study by Queen Mary University, London. In it, we see that month of birth indeed played quite the role in a great many lives. Winter babies are at the greatest risk for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder; spring babies depression. Other months show lows for these traits, thus again providing a correlative link between the planets locations and the 'shape of our futures'.

You can hardly pick out a sentence without finding complete bullocks. "They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. " Is it not quite the popular opinion among scientists, and demonstrably some of those signees, that determinism is a valid point of view?





Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 10, 2017, 05:16:00 PM
[Reserved]
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 10, 2017, 05:20:49 PM
[Further Reserved]
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 10, 2017, 05:21:05 PM
[Reserved For Footnotes]
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 10, 2017, 05:21:50 PM
[reserved upon popular request by the spider boat corporation.]
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Alpha2Omega on February 10, 2017, 06:09:00 PM
In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up,  has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be.  We start here at part I:

ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED

The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'

Before we go any further, will you please clarify something?

Have you, yourself, actually read the 'manifesto' you refer to, or are you relying on a third party (Feyerabend, et al.) report of what it said? It sounds like you're doing the latter, but maybe I misunderstand what you said.

If you do have the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, would it be possible for you to scan the article in question, or provide a link to the content, so we can read what it says for ourselves, instead of having to rely on what you say it says, or, worse, what you say someone else says it says? If you have not seen the original article, please say so. If you have read it, but cannot provide a way for us to see the content itself, also, please say so.

Until your familiarity with the actual assertions you object to can be reasonably established and a way to verify your assertions are based on the text itself, there's not much to discuss.

[Edit] Punctuation.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 11, 2017, 02:45:35 AM
[Reserved]
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 11, 2017, 02:52:15 AM
Quote
The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.
I can't argue with this.  I'm far more likely to be up and active whilst the sun is up and far more likely to be in bed when it is dark.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: RocksEverywhere on February 11, 2017, 03:47:31 AM
[Unreserved and obtainable through bribes]
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 11, 2017, 04:04:36 AM
Quote
The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.
I can't argue with this.  I'm far more likely to be up and active whilst the sun is up and far more likely to be in bed when it is dark.
Indeed! The plane truth is often hard to argue with. So clear it is that the heavenly bodies affect our lives!
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 11, 2017, 05:42:33 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 11, 2017, 05:56:09 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 11, 2017, 06:17:00 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.

Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.

Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 11, 2017, 06:34:35 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.

Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.

Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...


There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.

Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.

There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 11, 2017, 09:22:20 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.

Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.

Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...


There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.

Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.

There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.

Ok! Let's assume there is a god. Or a lot of them. But let's assume there is just one.
Now that we have our god, we can ask him why he is such a fucken asshole!

If someday I find that there is a god I will not worship such a malevolent creature.

Watch this video. It summarises my position about gods.

Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 11, 2017, 10:44:49 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.

Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.

Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...


There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.

Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.

There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.

Ok! Let's assume there is a god. Or a lot of them. But let's assume there is just one.
Now that we have our god, we can ask him why he is such a fucken asshole!

If someday I find that there is a god I will not worship such a malevolent creature.

Watch this video. It summarises my position about gods.



I can think of one counter argument; I believe the Apocrypha of John disagrees. Certainly the creator in Gnosticism is a fool that has created us a world of suffering. The highest unknowable god, is a different story. This explains many of the sufferings in the world. In this case, you would be worshiping the highest unknowable god.

Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 11, 2017, 12:08:40 PM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
It doesn't need help from a group of guys in funny frocks.
You might say a rock does a good job at hiding itself, until you find out a group of guys in frocks actually hid it.

Rocks like to stay still. It's a personality feature deeply incrusted in the rock! We don't expect a rock to jump at a corner to surprise people.

Now gods are a diferent matter. First of all if a god allows to be hidden against it's will it defies the definition of a powerful god. So or god is powerless or god likes to play hide and seek.
The other option is that gods are fictional creatures...


There are several other options. One pointed out by the celebrated Joseph Campbell is especially pertinent - the metrics, behaviors, and laws of the Gods and in general the super-natural are not the same as those held by man. It is as if you are saying "Well oranges are orange, why aren't apples?" This is a fundamental trait of the globularist - to assume that since he knows one small thing, that all of reality must conform to his preconceived ideas. This is fool-hardy.

Another option left out of your pigeon hole, is that of a God that is as silly as you describe, but actually values the actions and will of man to decide his own end and carry about his own affairs. This may be more relatable; like a parent may give guidance to a child, eventually he must allow that child to reach adulthood. One could easily place this marker at around the biblical flood, if you wish.

There are quite a few more, but it seems as if you haven't even tried to find them. You assume quite a bit about this God.

Ok! Let's assume there is a god. Or a lot of them. But let's assume there is just one.
Now that we have our god, we can ask him why he is such a fucken asshole!

If someday I find that there is a god I will not worship such a malevolent creature.

Watch this video. It summarises my position about gods.



I can think of one counter argument; I believe the Apocrypha of John disagrees. Certainly the creator in Gnosticism is a fool that has created us a world of suffering. The highest unknowable god, is a different story. This explains many of the sufferings in the world. In this case, you would be worshiping the highest unknowable god.

Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.

Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 11, 2017, 12:12:48 PM
(http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/78577/file-580774551-jpg/images/carnac_the_magnificent-resized-600.jpg)
Words that describe globularist theory

Ignoring this, people can still be actively trying to hide god even if god is fictional.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: markjo on February 11, 2017, 05:49:16 PM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
Incorrect.  God is all around you.  You just need to open your eyes and your heart.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 12, 2017, 12:23:43 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
Incorrect.  God is all around you.  You just need to open your eyes and your heart.

Heart opening is a tricky deal, better leave that to professionals.

About the vision sense I took look and didn't find any god on sight. Sorry.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: markjo on February 12, 2017, 09:29:19 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
Incorrect.  God is all around you.  You just need to open your eyes and your heart.

Heart opening is a tricky deal, better leave that to professionals.
Apparently you think that metaphors are tricky too and choose to leave them to the professionals as well.

About the vision sense I took look and didn't find any god on sight. Sorry.
That's probably because it's hard to see things that you don't believe in.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 12, 2017, 09:48:00 AM
God does a pretty good job hiding himself.
Incorrect.  God is all around you.  You just need to open your eyes and your heart.

Heart opening is a tricky deal, better leave that to professionals.
Apparently you think that metaphors are tricky too and choose to leave them to the professionals as well.

About the vision sense I took look and didn't find any god on sight. Sorry.
That's probably because it's hard to see things that you don't believe in.
It's even harder to see things that don't exist.

But if you believe in fairytales wrote by primitive people good for you. I could ask who or what confirms the veracity ot the texts but for sure is a matter of gullibility.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 12, 2017, 10:02:00 AM
Fairytales, and fables, and the whole lot are processes born out of generations and generations of social evolved information. You can even pretty easily show there's overlying and consistent arches across the stories of all nations of the world.

It would seem foolish to discard this one tradition of knowledge completely simply because one favors another a bit more. There are countless examples of religious experience causing huge scientific breakthroughs.

This could not be more true of astrology. Also, a belief that passes through several places, locations, times, and whats more than this - they all say the same thing. The heavens have an affect on our future. Only since the emergence of science as a profession, mind you not a search of knowledge anymore, we see a growing hate for any tradition or idea that is outside of the tyrant of sciences scope.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Alpha2Omega on February 12, 2017, 10:33:04 AM
Before we go any further, will you please clarify something?

Have you, yourself, actually read the 'manifesto' you refer to, or are you relying on a third party (Feyerabend, et al.) report of what it said? It sounds like you're doing the latter, but maybe I misunderstand what you said.

If you do have the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, would it be possible for you to scan the article in question, or provide a link to the content, so we can read what it says for ourselves, instead of having to rely on what you say it says, or, worse, what you say someone else says it says? If you have not seen the original article, please say so. If you have read it, but cannot provide a way for us to see the content itself, also, please say so.

Until your familiarity with the actual assertions you object to can be reasonably established and a way to verify your assertions are based on the text itself, there's not much to discuss.

After accidentally opening the beginning of the thread instead of going straight to new posts, I see you edited the OP in the thread (https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=69272.msg1868458#msg1868458) to include the text of the Statement by 186 Leading Scientists from that issue of the Humanist as requested. It took a while to notice it was there, but thanks.

That's a statement of opinion by scientists, not a study. I don't see anything in there that seems unreasonable.

Here's how the publication you cite describes itself:

Quote from: https://thehumanist.com/about-the-magazine/
With a distinguished cadre of writers covering everything from science and religion to media and technology to politics and popular culture, the Humanist continues to challenge readers with insightful ethical critique and commentary on the central issues of our time.

It's commentary.

Your quote of the text is followed by several paragraphs of your own musings, opinions, and assertions with no citations to back them up. To use a catchphrase that originated a few years after the statement you object to: "where's the beef?"
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 12, 2017, 12:22:08 PM
Fairytales, and fables, and the whole lot are processes born out of generations and generations of social evolved information. You can even pretty easily show there's overlying and consistent arches across the stories of all nations of the world.

It would seem foolish to discard this one tradition of knowledge completely simply because one favors another a bit more. There are countless examples of religious experience causing huge scientific breakthroughs.

This could not be more true of astrology. Also, a belief that passes through several places, locations, times, and whats more than this - they all say the same thing. The heavens have an affect on our future. Only since the emergence of science as a profession, mind you not a search of knowledge anymore, we see a growing hate for any tradition or idea that is outside of the tyrant of sciences scope.

Sure, sure... Look! A leprechaun!
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 12, 2017, 01:30:51 PM
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.

Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...

What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Mainframes on February 12, 2017, 02:07:47 PM
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.

Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...

What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.

So you need god to tell you that murder is wrong? Do you not realise how bad that makes you look......
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Bom Tishop on February 12, 2017, 03:37:26 PM
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.

Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...

What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.

So you need god to tell you that murder is wrong? Do you not realise how bad that makes you look......

You missed the point of his post.

If you would like to learn more, there is a thread in the political forum where morals are discussed and their origins.


As for Gumby, I would say not to spend much time with him, it would be a loss to the one making the attempt.

He is the word for word stereotypical angry, irrational, closed minded atheist blowhard. I actually feel pity for him, not anger.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 13, 2017, 01:19:30 AM
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.

Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...

What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.

So you need god to tell you that murder is wrong? Do you not realise how bad that makes you look......

You missed the point of his post.

If you would like to learn more, there is a thread in the political forum where morals are discussed and their origins.


As for Gumby, I would say not to spend much time with him, it would be a loss to the one making the attempt.

He is the word for word stereotypical angry, irrational, closed minded atheist blowhard. I actually feel pity for him, not anger.

Believing in stuff with unknown origin is not wise.

I must say that everyone that believes in gods is stupid and ignorant and gullible and irrational and prone to be deceived by confidence tricksters.
I pitty all the imbeciles that finance churches and priests and rabis and all those conmen that make a good living doing nothing more than selling illusions.

I also pity those who try to find ansers in books written by half savages in remote times.

May all the gods bless you all.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 13, 2017, 04:00:35 AM
Astrology is still bullshit.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 13, 2017, 07:36:48 AM
I must say that everyone that believes in gods is stupid and ignorant and gullible and irrational and prone to be deceived by confidence tricksters.
I pitty all the imbeciles that finance churches and priests and rabis and all those conmen that make a good living doing nothing more than selling illusions.

I also pity those who try to find ansers in books written by half savages in remote times.

May all the gods bless you all.

So, what you are saying is that the follow list of people are stupid, ignorant, gullible, irrational, and prone to be deceived by con artists?

Einstein
Newton
Tesla
Mendel
Kepler
Darwin
Francis S. Collins, director of the Human Genome Project
Francis Bacon, Founder of the Scientific Method
Maria Mitchell, Americas first woman astronomer
Carl Sagan
Francis Collins is the director of the National Institutes of Health
Thomas Aquinas

... etc ...

You are just a bigot hiding behind the popularity of atheism.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 13, 2017, 01:36:19 PM
I must say that everyone that believes in gods is stupid and ignorant and gullible and irrational and prone to be deceived by confidence tricksters.
I pitty all the imbeciles that finance churches and priests and rabis and all those conmen that make a good living doing nothing more than selling illusions.

I also pity those who try to find ansers in books written by half savages in remote times.

May all the gods bless you all.

So, what you are saying is that the follow list of people are stupid, ignorant, gullible, irrational, and prone to be deceived by con artists?

Einstein
Newton
Tesla
Mendel
Kepler
Darwin
Francis S. Collins, director of the Human Genome Project
Francis Bacon, Founder of the Scientific Method
Maria Mitchell, Americas first woman astronomer
Carl Sagan
Francis Collins is the director of the National Institutes of Health
Thomas Aquinas

... etc ...

You are just a bigot hiding behind the popularity of atheism.

In a nutshell, yes.
All incompetent in that area of knowledge.
I don't know if all the mentioned people is part of the vast legion of believers but if they believe in any god that makes them idiots.

Remember that all the dead gods were followed by people that excelled in some areas of knowledge but in the long term it was proven that they were following inexistent deities.
And present gods will be replaced by other gods. It's a question of time...

By the way how did you choose your faith?
It was a conscient choice or you were indoctrined by someone?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 13, 2017, 05:31:39 PM
Believing in any God makes someone an idiot? My money says "in God we trust", the people who made it must have been idiots in your book. Why is rape bad if there is no God? Why not lie and steal? There is no punishment awaiting you if you can get away with it! What a fool you are, athiest.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 14, 2017, 01:38:33 AM
Believing in any God makes someone an idiot? My money says "in God we trust", the people who made it must have been idiots in your book. Why is rape bad if there is no God? Why not lie and steal? There is no punishment awaiting you if you can get away with it! What a fool you are, athiest.
Yes it makes.
About rape... Lets see what the bible says... No problem with rape, just pay to her owner and marry her.
The bible not only condones slavery, but also rape, abduction, pillage, destruction, murder of women and children!

Honestly, if you need a book full of god sponsored crimes to teach you what is good or evil you are a moron.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 14, 2017, 05:20:50 AM
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."

Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?

Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 14, 2017, 07:03:53 AM
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."

Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?

Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.

Moron...
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Göebbels on February 14, 2017, 10:38:57 AM
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."

Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?

Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.

APart from that, you don't need a god to know slavery, rape, murder is bad.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Space Cowgirl on February 14, 2017, 11:13:18 AM
Astrology is still bullshit.

My horoscope said I would encounter a cranky crab on the internet today. 
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: rabinoz on February 14, 2017, 01:56:19 PM
Astrology is still bullshit.
My horoscope said I would encounter a cranky crab on the internet today.
Been checked out for Cancer lately?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: FETlolcakes on February 14, 2017, 02:00:10 PM
Unknowable, invisible, impotent, inactive, improbable, improvable, inaudible, etc, etc, etc.
Bollocks in my opinion.

Your god will "die" and join the other dead gods...

What a fool you are. God is most certainly provable. Do you think murder is ok? What about lying? Are those things acceptable in your mind? If not, why? God.

God is provable? Mmmm no he isn't otherwise you'd offer up the evidence. Not only that, but which god are you referring to? No doubt it's the one you have faith in.

It really speaks to the insecurity of the religious that they seemingly rarely choose to fly under their true banner of faith. Instead, they choose to pretend that their religion has evidence for the extraordinary claims it makes and/or that all that science proves is how amazing their god was all along.

Odd that, if you had been born in a different country, you would (more than likely) believe in a completely different god. Does that not speak more to indoctrination than the veracity of the religious texts?

You talk like a person who has never heard any counter to the position you hold ever. Do you really think the human species got to where we were before the commandments were handed down thinking that rape, pillage, theft and murder were good things? Please.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: disputeone on February 14, 2017, 05:05:34 PM
Astrology is still bullshit.

My horoscope said I would encounter a cranky crab on the internet today.

Rotflmfao.

Astrology is as good as you are with it, like the tarot, it's not the cards themselves with power but the person using them.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: PawnedScum on February 14, 2017, 05:42:16 PM
After high school, I worked for a small publication that delivered a local television guide for free to your home.  We paid for a prescription of the 'Horoscope' and one month they simply doubled the price of that service.  My boss refused to pay it, so I simply wrote the horoscope for six weeks until we found a place to get it cheaper.  I reused previous months 'predictions' and mish mashed them together each weak to get the twelve horoscope values.  People thought it was awesome and so much better then the previous ones. Just had to mention love life, work, found money and alignment of certain stars each week and it was good enough.  Go figure.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 14, 2017, 06:04:49 PM
<Insert your sign here>

You are a good person, but something may happen to challenge that.
Be respectful of people with whom you may disagree.
You overreact occasionally, this is not the time.
Mars is nearing the butthole of Torus, Saturn is also a planet.
Just know; it will all work out fine.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: rabinoz on February 14, 2017, 06:32:09 PM
<Insert your sign here>

You are a good person, but something may happen to challenge that.
Be respectful of people with whom you may disagree.
You overreact occasionally, this is not the time.
Mars is nearing the butthole of Torus, Saturn is also a planet.
Just know; it will all work out fine.

Sometimes I think that most of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk of being a little vulgar it often seems that
semper in faecibus sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 14, 2017, 06:53:48 PM

Sometimes I think that most of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk of being a little vulgar it often seems that
semper in faecibus sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)



Let me fix that for you . . . . . .


Sometimes I think that most
of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk
of being a little vulgar it often                  seems thatsemper in faecibus (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)




I have waders.   ;)
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: rabinoz on February 14, 2017, 07:23:27 PM

Sometimes I think that most of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk of being a little vulgar it often seems that
semper in faecibus sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
Let me fix that for you . . . . . .
Sometimes I think that most
of you posts are "taurian faecibus" and at the risk
of being a little vulgar it often                  seems thatsemper in faecibus (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)
sumus sole, profundum variat. (http://mymemory.translated.net/en/Latin/English/semper-in-faecibus-sumus-sole,-profundum-variat)

I have waders.   ;)
Your formatting is worse than mine! I was going to FTFY but got lost in the excreta!
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Bullwinkle on February 14, 2017, 07:44:40 PM
Call it a draw?   ;D
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: disputeone on February 14, 2017, 08:30:14 PM
Draw confirmed ;D ;D
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: rabinoz on February 14, 2017, 09:34:55 PM
Call it a draw?   ;D
I concede, you can draw better that I can too!
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 14, 2017, 11:46:23 PM
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."

Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?

Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.

Moron...

Ill take that as a no, gumby doesnt have time to read the Bible! Even if youre not american, its currency affects you, and american currency says IN GOD WE TRUST. Ya might wanna read the book.

Still waiting on the bible verses encouring rape and slavery... Oh wait, gumby was lying.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: JimmyTheCrab on February 15, 2017, 06:34:33 AM
IN GOD WE TRUST.
It doesn't say which one.

Quote
Still waiting on the bible verses encouring rape and slavery... Oh wait, gumby was lying.
The rules of siege warfare in Europe (up until a few hundred years ago) were based on Deuteronomy 20:

"When you come near to a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace to it. 11 It shall be, if it gives you a reply of peace and opens to you, then it must be that all the people that are found within shall become slaves to you and they shall serve you. 12 If it will not make peace with you but makes war against you, then you are to besiege it. 13 And when the Lord your God has delivered it into your hands, you are to slay every male there with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, and the little ones, and the livestock, and all that is in the city, all the spoil within, you are to take to yourself, and you will eat the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you. 15 Thus you are to do to all the cities which are far away, which are not the cities of these nearby nations."

So if a city you besiege gives up peacefully, then you can take them all as slaves.  If they don't give up, then you can kill and rape everyone in the city, children included.

However the bible does offer protection to fruit trees, which is nice:

"When you lay siege to a city for a long time, in making war against it in order to take it, you shall not destroy the trees there by chopping them down with an axe, for you may eat from them, and you shall not cut them down. For the tree of the field is not a man in which to lay siege. 20 However, you may destroy and cut down only the trees which you know are not fruit trees, so that you may build siege engines against the city that makes war with you until it falls."
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 15, 2017, 08:07:26 AM
Tell me which verses say "slavery and rape is encouraged."

Not only that, but the laws about slaves, stoning homosexuals and the exclusion of gentiles are all rules given to the Jewish nation exclusively. Books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply to Christians. Have you even read the Bible all the way through?

Please, atheist, your point of view is childish and I am getting the feeling you are speaking out of ignorance and hate.

Moron...

Ill take that as a no, gumby doesnt have time to read the Bible! Even if youre not american, its currency affects you, and american currency says IN GOD WE TRUST. Ya might wanna read the book.

Still waiting on the bible verses encouring rape and slavery... Oh wait, gumby was lying.

As a matter of fact I don't read the bible often. There are more interesting books to read. But look for yourself. You will find the penalties for raping a virgin, hurting a slave, taking slaves from conquered countries and all that shit.

And mickey mouse money also have nice maçonic symbols...
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 15, 2017, 09:05:21 AM
Yes, the Lord can be furious in his punishment of the wicked. But i still fail to see any verses saying "Raping women is good".

Also like a stated only 3 posts ago, the book of Deuteronomy is a law set given to the Jewish nation only. They are Gods chosen people, but disgraced him at every turn! That is why Jesus was sent to warn them of their wrong doings, but they killed him! So Gods love was made available to Jews and Gentiles alike, if only they follow Jesus and trust in the Lord. However, akin to the entire Old testament, Jews remain stubborn and reject Gods word. They are supposed to make burnt offerings, and a temple in Jerusalem where the Lord resides! Where are these things? Why do they not practice the entire teachings of the Lord, if they claim their ways are righteous. There are some called Messianic Jews, they see the light and the truth. But most Jews are like most Christians now a days. They say they believe in God and trust in him, yet they sin day after day after day after day! They have been fooled into thinking sin is unavoidable! Theyll say oh getting drunk is not a sin! Smoking weed is not a sin! Lust is not a sin! Cursing is not a sin! They dont care! Theyll have covetnesss and greed in their heart and wont think twice about the Bible on a daily basis, yet they still say oh yes im a Jew or Christian. Adding hypocrisy to their sins...

Turn from your sin. The only person you are hurting by embracing what you know to be wrong is yourself. Obey the Lord God. Follow Jesus.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 15, 2017, 02:00:37 PM
Yes, the Lord can be furious in his punishment of the wicked. But i still fail to see any verses saying "Raping women is good".

Also like a stated only 3 posts ago, the book of Deuteronomy is a law set given to the Jewish nation only. They are Gods chosen people, but disgraced him at every turn! That is why Jesus was sent to warn them of their wrong doings, but they killed him! So Gods love was made available to Jews and Gentiles alike, if only they follow Jesus and trust in the Lord. However, akin to the entire Old testament, Jews remain stubborn and reject Gods word. They are supposed to make burnt offerings, and a temple in Jerusalem where the Lord resides! Where are these things? Why do they not practice the entire teachings of the Lord, if they claim their ways are righteous. There are some called Messianic Jews, they see the light and the truth. But most Jews are like most Christians now a days. They say they believe in God and trust in him, yet they sin day after day after day after day! They have been fooled into thinking sin is unavoidable! Theyll say oh getting drunk is not a sin! Smoking weed is not a sin! Lust is not a sin! Cursing is not a sin! They dont care! Theyll have covetnesss and greed in their heart and wont think twice about the Bible on a daily basis, yet they still say oh yes im a Jew or Christian. Adding hypocrisy to their sins...

Turn from your sin. The only person you are hurting by embracing what you know to be wrong is yourself. Obey the Lord God. Follow Jesus.

Obey god! Follow jesus?

Did god talk to you? Or you just follow ny command given to you by any confidence trickster that claims to speak in the name of god?

If god wants something from me he can leave a message on my voicemail.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 25, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
Your conscience is proof that God exists. Only a fool mocks the existence of God. Do you believe in morals or logic? How can you prove they exist? You cannot touch them, see them, hear them, smell them, or taste them, but im sure you believe in them. So why not God?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 25, 2017, 09:11:45 AM
Your conscience is proof that God exists. Only a fool mocks the existence of God. Do you believe in morals or logic? How can you prove they exist? You cannot touch them, see them, hear them, smell them, or taste them, but im sure you believe in tchem. So why not God?

Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 25, 2017, 09:17:48 AM
Wow, im so persuaded by your well thought out response.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 25, 2017, 09:21:24 AM
Wow, im so persuaded by your well thought out response.

I tried very very hard to be at your level but I apologize if I made it too complex.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 25, 2017, 09:27:58 AM
Your conscience is proof that God exists. Only a fool mocks the existence of God. Do you believe in morals or logic? How can you prove they exist? You cannot touch them, see them, hear them, smell them, or taste them, but im sure you believe in them. So why not God?

Of which God are you speaking?
-The Christian god?
-buddy?
-the go's of the hindus?
-the Greek god's?
-the Norse god's.
-the Egyptian god's?
-the Shinto god's?
Or one of all the other religions?

And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 25, 2017, 09:44:45 AM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 25, 2017, 09:56:30 AM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?

If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.

I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.

A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion

And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.

How does this fit in that moral thing?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 25, 2017, 10:39:11 AM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?

Give me one good reason to read the bible.

By the way, prove the authenticity of the bible.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 25, 2017, 10:48:32 AM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?

Give me one good reason to read the bible.

By the way, prove the authenticity of the bible.

I find it importend to read the Bible to understand what kind of BS is written there and how it contradicts itself a lots of times.

Researches of the Bible shows that it is written by various people in very different times.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Hannibaal on February 25, 2017, 11:00:34 AM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?

If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.

I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.

A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion

And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.

How does this fit in that moral thing?

Christian god, Jewish god, Muslim god, Hindu god, ..... so many gods!
Do they fight together, or are they in good terms unlike us?
Does each and every one of them have his own kingdom and territory?
Do they have differences in opinion about human fate in general, or is each god assigned to a certain group of people?
Can we expect them to have a difference in opinion and maybe fight over an issue, and see flying planets thrown from different directions?
Do they have a council to resolve disputes?
Would that council have a president like or a leader or maybe one of the elderly?
Would that elder be the one and only God?
If he is so, why would he need other gods beside him if he's capable of controlling everything?

Could the problem be in us when each & every individual start proclaiming the possession of that higher deity/ God, like a trade mark - a property of him & of his followers?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 25, 2017, 11:17:07 AM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?

If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.

I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.

A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion

And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.

How does this fit in that moral thing?

Christian god, Jewish god, Muslim god, Hindu god, ..... so many gods!
Do they fight together, or are they in good terms unlike us?
Does each and every one of them have his own kingdom and territory?
Do they have differences in opinion about human fate in general, or is each god assigned to a certain group of people?
Can we expect them to have a difference in opinion and maybe fight over an issue, and see flying planets thrown from different directions?
Do they have a council to resolve disputes?
Would that council have a president like or a leader or maybe one of the elderly?
Would that elder be the one and only God?
If he is so, why would he need other gods beside him if he's capable of controlling everything?

Could the problem be in us when each & every individual start proclaiming the possession of that higher deity/ God, like a trade mark - a property of him & of his followers?

Than you also imply that the Bible is wrong because in there it is said that there is only one God and if somebody who believes in a different religion shall be killed (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: physical observer on February 25, 2017, 12:04:52 PM
In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up,  has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be.  We start here at part I:

ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED


The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'

 They are not interested in learned subjects here clearly - they act religiously. Now, mind you when I say religiously here what I, like the average globularist, actually mean is dogmatically; this is in contra-distinction to the definition I so often lean to from William James which I hold in the more general and less specific sense.

They are clearly trying to delude the mind of the common man with their position of power. Some have gone so far as to show the structure of this document was a replica of the Roman Catholic book on witchcraft. We will now destroy these myths, and publicly humiliate all those great men who signed such a ridiculous document. No, we will be kind enough not to 'name names.'

The Obvious Truth
Let us set aside now greater matters - that of the shape of the earth - and examine only those at hand. Don't worry flatists - we will come full circle and address the elephant in the room. The arguments presented will assume neither side, yet will fit the common flat earth model as well as the globular one. First we will turn to the definition presented here.

'the assumption that celestial events such as the positions of the planets, of the moon, of the sun influence human affairs'

This is the definition we will use for astrology. Here the avid Christian might laugh - there is no doubt from biblical context that these bodies indeed influence the earth. However, we march bravely on and face the fool on his own hill.

There is no doubt to the always staunt scientist that the heavenly bodies have a body of plasmas that are in a delicate balance with that of the sun. This of course is influenced by the relative placement of the planets - flat or round. For example, Bill Nye might find himself quite titillated at the thought that this interaction - and careful knowledge of the system at hand and the positions of the planets can predict solar disturbances with ridiculous clarity, in model independent mathematics. DeGrace just wouldn't know what he was looking at, but we all know what a silly man he is.

Further more, solar activity - and lunar as we know from other sources - has an almost all invasive hold on not only the basic functions of life itself, but of even chemical reactions. Though we've always known this; at least since Plato. More recently, the electric potential of trees depends not only on the activity of the sun, but on flares - which obviously tie to the position of the planets.

If you are an older fellow you might even remember the harvest moon - or not to put fish out in the dark of night. Now a days we go mad for 'super moons'.  Or heck, the interested fellow can direct himself to the nearest hospital. Here, he or she may ask the staff bluntly - 'do the crazies come out on the full moon?' This has particular effect on an actual full moon.

There is no doubt that any reasonable or reasonable led force (such as evolution) would lead us to a state that is not to appear as random chance and to appear created.

The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.

Is there not always a chaos to the order? What of Sierpinski and his marvelous triangle? Even but a smidgen of order or evolution or holiness introduced into a chaotic system brings upon that system its own order - such that it can realize even in a pyramid of triangles in the simplest case. I digress...

There is no doubt the seasons affect our disposition. So much so, the ever growing book of psychological disorders now includes disorders for each season! The tale of astrology seems a little more likely, once we start talking about it discretely, doesn't it?





I do not have a physical copy, but it has been widely distributed. I source Feyerabend rather than others like Kurtz because I lean on some of his arguments - however the article is fairly well known and referenced in many astrological apologetics. I have reproduced it below:

Objections to Astrology

A Statement by 186 Leading Scientists

(The following statement first appeared in The Humanist of September/October 1975.)
Quote
Scientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.

In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth; they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars. It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures. Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action, or that the sign under which one was born determines one's compatibility or incompatibility with other people.

Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.

One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly, and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.

It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary.

Sponsoring Committee

(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)

Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona

Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California

Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo
Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners

The fact of the matter is that many of these signees know nothing about the subject matter which they claim false - this is evidenced by interviews with the subjects after the fact. Our friends at the BBC attempted to interview many of these nobel prizewinners and they declined - stating that they knew nothing of astrology and never studied it. Not only this, but within they make wild claims that 'In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view.' Where exactly did these men come by their convictions here? Not a one of them is an anthropologist...

Furthermore, I have shown with little to no effort that their base statement: "It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" is complete bullocks. No argument is given here, except religious declaration, which I have shown false by simple use of solar flares.

Let us continue to show these men as religious nut jobs.

Oysters open and close their shells based on lunar events. Potatoes as well have their own lunar period. And man? what of him? Well, for one, solar flares have been linked to higher rates of cancer in pilots and astro'nots'. Some have even seen a brilliant flash of light due to them! This is an obvious fact. Standford goes so far as to call it 'space weather.' There is also no doubt that the movement of the heavenly bodies affects our seasons. Many insects are also affected by the heavenly bodies. One simply needs to shake a stick to find it pointing towards more evidence.

However, to full attack the claim "it is a mistake to imagine... [the] stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" let us look at a 2012 study by Queen Mary University, London. In it, we see that month of birth indeed played quite the role in a great many lives. Winter babies are at the greatest risk for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder; spring babies depression. Other months show lows for these traits, thus again providing a correlative link between the planets locations and the 'shape of our futures'.

You can hardly pick out a sentence without finding complete bullocks. "They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. " Is it not quite the popular opinion among scientists, and demonstrably some of those signees, that determinism is a valid point of view?

Have you ever heard of astrotheology? Astrotheology deals with the rotation of the heavens above us, and how they have an effect on earth's physical phenomenon. You'll also discover why the Mayan calendar ended in 2012. You'll also begin understanding the mythological Moses exodus from Egypt. Astrology is the religious{for lack of a better word}, component of astrotheology. It was probably the Mayans that gave us astrology, for they had some complicated charts that each person received upon their birth. These charts directed what the individual did for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 25, 2017, 12:34:32 PM
And you talk about moral and logic.
Why I'd the God you talking about outside of these moral and logic?

I cant understand your question.

I believe in the God of the bible.

When was the last time you read it?

If you believe in the Christian God than you do not believe in all the other god's.
I am a very little step further than you, I also do not believe in the God of the Bible.

I did not read it complete from cover to cover but I did read a lot of parts of it.

A very big thing I found in it is:
For the Christians the 10 commandments are very important especially the one what says you shall not kill.
But in the Bible people get killed in the name of God lots of times.
-children that speak against their parents
-eating the wrong food
-believing in a other religion

And God murdered almost all human and animals on earth with a flood.

How does this fit in that moral thing?

That list applies only to Jews. Read the Bible! Youre taking things out of context!

Also tell me, whats the difference between the "Christian God" and the "Jewish God".
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 25, 2017, 12:40:43 PM
Quote from: Arealhumanbeing


That list applies only to Jews. Read the Bible! Youre taking things out of context!

Also tell me, whats the difference between the "Christian God" and the "Jewish God".

These points in the list are in the Christian bible.
If they are in the Jewish Tora, that I do not know.

The Christian religion toke a lot storys from the Jewish religion. Because the Jewish religion is older than the Christian.

For me both are not different because they both do not exist.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 25, 2017, 12:50:15 PM
I feel sorry for the christians.

Their parents love god above all things, so, their children come second, best case scenario!

It's hard to be less loved than a fictional character.

And any person that puts their children in second place is not only cruel but also a complete moron.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 25, 2017, 05:40:37 PM
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 25, 2017, 06:51:04 PM
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.

For me you do not feel sorry. I do not struggle thru my live.
I do not kneel for a imaginary being and beg for some forgiveness. I do not thank a a imaginary being if something good happening, I can thank these who really did the good thing. Like if a person get cured from a sickness I can thank the doctors for the cure and not a imaginary being.

Think about it if something good happens you thank God, do you also blame him if something bad happens?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 26, 2017, 12:08:31 AM
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.

Wrong again. But try to prove that.

By the way did mommy prefer baby jesus to you?
Did mommy spend more time on her knees praying than playing with you?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 26, 2017, 05:16:44 AM
Wow! A well thought out, mature response.

Youre really just proving my point you know that?

Keep struggling to offend people that dont agree with your worldviews, Gumby, that seems to be your purpose here right?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: physical observer on February 26, 2017, 06:16:56 AM
I feel sorry for the christians.

Their parents love god above all things, so, their children come second, best case scenario!

It's hard to be less loved than a fictional character.

And any person that puts their children in second place is not only cruel but also a complete moron.

"Their parents love god above all things, so, their children come second, best case scenario!"

Wow, did you nail the hammer on the head on that one! I mean, just look at the example of Abraham and Isaac.

Think about this, the God of the Bible asked Abraham to sacrifice his son to him, yet that same God condemned parents that sacrificed their children to the God Molech. Yeah, the God of the OT had some major personality disorders! Jealousy, anger, rage, and sometimes acting out, then regretting it later, manipulative, demanding certain behaviors, then acting the opposite. The God of the OT was one of the worse war mongers ever! Even using biological warfare.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Mainframes on February 26, 2017, 07:41:21 AM
I feel sorry for those who do not believe in God. They struggle through life and question why.

No they really don't.

They lives their lives in the present knowing this is the only life they will have.

I feel sorry for religious people as it is apparent you need a god to give your own life meaning.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 26, 2017, 08:16:32 AM
Wow! A well thought out, mature response.

Youre really just proving my point you know that?

Keep struggling to offend people that dont agree with your worldviews, Gumby, that seems to be your purpose here right?

Just grow up! There is no santa. Prayer doesn't work.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 26, 2017, 11:40:00 AM
Youre right, it doesnt work if you keep sinning and disobey God. Why would he listen to people who dont listen to him!?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 26, 2017, 12:18:14 PM
Youre right, it doesnt work if you keep sinning and disobey God. Why would he listen to people who dont listen to him!?

And how to listen to an imaginary being?
 
And btw. murder is a sin than God is the biggest sinner ever.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: disputeone on February 26, 2017, 02:16:15 PM
I use a black mirror.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 26, 2017, 02:18:21 PM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Mainframes on February 26, 2017, 02:24:16 PM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

There are dragons on flags and currencies worldwide. They're not real.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 26, 2017, 02:44:41 PM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Only to mention a few things.


Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 26, 2017, 06:21:19 PM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Only to mention a few things.

Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.

Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.

Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.

Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?

Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?

So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 27, 2017, 02:26:48 AM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Only to mention a few things.

Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.

Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.

Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.

Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?

Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?

So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.

All that is from the Bible not from the Tora.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Gumby on February 27, 2017, 04:27:42 AM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

Around here the law is based on roman law, not on the bible.

Apart the US money I never saw references to religion on currency (and I have seen a few).

So it seems you are wong again! And quoting an wise man two wongs don't make one white!
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 27, 2017, 06:34:17 AM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Only to mention a few things.

Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.

Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.

Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.

Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?

Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?

So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.

All that is from the Bible not from the Tora
.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.

You do realize that the Torah is just the first five books of the Old Testament Bible. The Torah is the Bible.

So yes, if all Jews were actually following their scriptures, they are SUPPOSED to be kiling homosexuals, cursing children and the like.

But they dont! They dont even follow any other rule either, many Jews eat bacon, work on saturdays, curse often, get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, their all about sin sin sin. Just like many professing Christians!

This world is just full of people who aknowledge the existance of God, yet lack the will to actually obey him. They obey the doctrine of man instead.

Its about time that people woke up from their inequity and began a new age, which i believe starts with the dismantling and dismemberment of the Freemasons. They promote wickedness.

Fear no man,
Fear God.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 27, 2017, 06:40:41 AM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Only to mention a few things.

Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.

Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.

Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.

Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?

Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?

So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.

All that is from the Bible not from the Tora
.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.

You do realize that the Torah is just the first five books of the Old Testament Bible. The Torah is the Bible.

So yes, if all Jews were actually following their scriptures, they are SUPPOSED to be kiling homosexuals, cursing children and the like.

But they dont! They dont even follow any other rule either, many Jews eat bacon, work on saturdays, curse often, get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, their all about sin sin sin. Just like many professing Christians!

This world is just full of people who aknowledge the existance of God, yet lack the will to actually obey him. They obey the doctrine of man instead.

Its about time that people woke up from their inequity and began a new age, which i believe starts with the dismantling and dismemberment of the Freemasons. They promote wickedness.

Fear no man,
Fear God.

wow for that you say your are living according to the bible a obeying it you have not very much knowledge of the bible.
or even a knowledge about anything.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 27, 2017, 06:49:32 AM
Read the Bible, it tells you how to listen to God.

Or you could blindly follow whatever false belief you have.

I mean its not like Gods important or anything...

Its not like all of our societies rules are based on the Bible.

Its not like the word God is written on currency all around the world.

So yeah, its just imaginary right?

Lol

"Fools say to themselves there is no God". - Psalm 14-1

If I would follow the Bible I would have a lot killing to do:
-homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
-children cursing their parents (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
-everybody commit adultery (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
-people working on sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

Only to mention a few things.

Are you Jewish? If not, many of those rules do not apply.Try actually comprehending the entiretiy of the Bible for a change, and not just nitpick excerpts that fit your biased view.

Homosexuals - Killing them is only a law from God for the nation of Isreal, not gentile Christians.

Children cursing parents - Same as homosexuals, it was a law for the nation is Israel alone.

Adultery - This applies to both Jews and gentiles. Are you in favor of someone having sex with your wife? Do you think thats ok? Or looking with lust upon her? Why did you list adultery like its a far fetched, hard to adhere to law?

Sabbath - God commands rest, do you have a problem with that as well?

So no, if you seriosuly decided to change your life and live for the glory of God, you wouldnt have alot of killing to do, unless you try to be a biblical jew, then you might, but no jewish person I know actually follows all the rules they are supposed to, and now you know why - theyde have a lot of killing to do.

All that is from the Bible not from the Tora
.
I did not write that I find adultery ok I wrote that in the Bible it is written the you have to kill homosexuals, cursing children, people who commit adultery and people who work on sabbath.
And you last sentence is very disturbing.
Do you really think that jews that live by their Tora are more likely to be murder than people that live by the Bible.
I rather not say here what I than would think of you.

You do realize that the Torah is just the first five books of the Old Testament Bible. The Torah is the Bible.

So yes, if all Jews were actually following their scriptures, they are SUPPOSED to be kiling homosexuals, cursing children and the like.

But they dont! They dont even follow any other rule either, many Jews eat bacon, work on saturdays, curse often, get drunk, have sex outside of marriage, their all about sin sin sin. Just like many professing Christians!

This world is just full of people who aknowledge the existance of God, yet lack the will to actually obey him. They obey the doctrine of man instead.

Its about time that people woke up from their inequity and began a new age, which i believe starts with the dismantling and dismemberment of the Freemasons. They promote wickedness.

Fear no man,
Fear God.

wow for that you say your are living according to the bible a obeying it you have not very much knowledge of the bible.
or even a knowledge about anything.

The fools response speaks for itself.

Feel free to provide proof that I am wrong instead of typing inane babble.

Read the Bible.
Its enlightening.

Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 27, 2017, 07:53:31 AM

The fools response speaks for itself.

Feel free to provide proof that I am wrong instead of typing inane babble.

Read the Bible.
Its enlightening.

i did read the bible and it is full of stuff that is physical impossible.
and also extremely stupid stuff that makes no logic at all.

and like as i already saied full of murder, rape, slavery, genocide...

Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 27, 2017, 07:55:15 AM
Lol Is that your proof that I am wrong?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: BillClinton on February 27, 2017, 08:42:02 AM
As Bill Clinton I can confirm.
The sky is a hologram and astrology is another trick to fool you that the earth is round.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 27, 2017, 10:01:57 AM
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

-Isaiah 7:14

Obey God.
Follow Jesus.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Canadabear on February 27, 2017, 11:08:57 AM
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel."

-Isaiah 7:14

Obey God.
Follow Jesus.

was his full name Jesus Immanuel Christ?  ;D
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: physical observer on February 27, 2017, 12:55:14 PM
As Bill Clinton I can confirm.
The sky is a hologram and astrology is another trick to fool you that the earth is round.

From Bill, "what are you fucking retarded"

To believe you are BC, I would have to be retarded!
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Val Strasser on February 27, 2017, 01:46:46 PM
Yes, the Lord can be furious in his punishment of the wicked... the book of Deuteronomy is a law set given to the Jewish nation only. They are Gods chosen people, but disgraced him at every turn! That is why Jesus was sent to warn them of their wrong doings, but they killed him! So Gods love was made available to Jews and Gentiles alike, if only they follow Jesus and trust in the Lord.

Makes you wonder what God thought of all the other non-Jews in the world at the time.  Supposedly they were made in His image too (if the Old Testament is to be believed).  Did He not love the non-Jews?  Did he make the non-believers as a bit of an afterthought or were they defective?  How come the Jews (and only the Jews) got a special deal with God?

Perhaps because the books which sets out the history of Jews as the chosen people were written by Arabic Scholars a Professor of History at Oxford University somebody on Wikipedia the Jews?

Given that there is sufficient reason to believe that humans wrote the books which form the basis of the Torah and the Christian Bible, it is reasonable to deduce that there may be a teeny weeny bit of exaggeration, misdirection, fake news or outright fantasy in their makeup.  Plus, I seem to recall that there are no source references or citations in the Torah or the Bible.  Hardly reliable...
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: BarackObama on February 27, 2017, 01:59:27 PM
As Bill Clinton I can confirm.
The sky is a hologram and astrology is another trick to fool you that the earth is round.

From Bill, "what are you fucking retarded"

To believe you are BC, I would have to be retarded!
Yo you pickin a fight with my man bill?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 28, 2017, 07:27:35 AM
Where are the mods? They ban people who speak their mind, but dont touch obvious impersonators saying absolutely nothing of importance.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Alpha2Omega on February 28, 2017, 09:36:42 AM
They'll probably be gone soon for one reason or another. In the meantime, just block them if their posts annoy you. You won't be missing anything.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 28, 2017, 09:58:14 AM
Plus, I seem to recall that there are no source references or citations in the Torah or the Bible.  Hardly reliable...

If it aint sourced from .gov it aint truth! Am i right?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Val Strasser on February 28, 2017, 02:33:52 PM
Plus, I seem to recall that there are no source references or citations in the Torah or the Bible.  Hardly reliable...

If it aint sourced from .gov it aint truth! Am i right?

Not necessarily, just as the opposite is not always true: if it is sourced from the government, it isn't necessarily false.

My point, which you appear to have missed, is that the Torah and the Bible may be held to be true by some people, but that does not make them true. 

Would you hold that the Book of Mormon is true?  Or the Quran?  Could they all be true?  Or not...
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 28, 2017, 02:54:54 PM

My point, which you appear to have missed, is that the Torah and the Bible may be held to be true by some people, but that does not make them true. 

Did you know that the Torah is just the first few parts of the Old Testament Bible?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Val Strasser on February 28, 2017, 03:06:41 PM

My point, which you appear to have missed, is that the Torah and the Bible may be held to be true by some people, but that does not make them true. 

Did you know that the Old Testament Bible is just the Torah with a few bits added?

Fixed.

You're welcome.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 28, 2017, 03:09:57 PM
Or is it the other way around?
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Val Strasser on February 28, 2017, 03:13:19 PM
Or is it the other way around?

I'm no historian, but I am pretty sure that the collation of the Torah predated the formation of the Christian sect.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 28, 2017, 03:23:43 PM
Obviously. Christ came after Moses. There could be no Christians without Christ. I dont know what youre reading but the Torah and the Old Testament come from the same ancient writings. There should be no difference. I meant the other way around as in often times the BIBLE is the one with extra bits added, through translation, that decieve people enough to hate God.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: PawnedScum on February 28, 2017, 03:25:38 PM
Obviously. Christ came after Moses. There could be no Christians without Christ. I dont know what youre reading but the Torah and the Old Testament come from the same ancient writings. There should be no difference. I meant the other way around as in often times the BIBLE is the one with extra bits added, through translation, that decieve people enough to hate God.
I'm just curious, since you think the Free Masons are a great conspiracy on the land, why wouldn't you think religion is just another conspiracy. If it is, then it has far longer reach and impact on people's lives than any Mason or Shriner has ever had.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Val Strasser on February 28, 2017, 03:37:56 PM
Obviously. Christ came after Moses. There could be no Christians without Christ. I dont know what youre reading but the Torah and the Old Testament come from the same ancient writings. There should be no difference. I meant the other way around as in often times the BIBLE is the one with extra bits added, through translation, that decieve people enough to hate God.

Often times? Really? How about always?

The Torah, comprising 5 books, has been incorporated as the first 5 books of the Christian Old Testament.

The Christian Old Testament comprises the Torah and other books (the number varies according you which particular denomination of Christianity you believe is the "proper" one").
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Arealhumanbeing on February 28, 2017, 03:52:10 PM
Yeah, so try to find faithful translations.

King James, New King James and Evangelical Bibles seem well tranlsated.

You sound very hostile for someone agreeing with me.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 28, 2017, 04:05:16 PM
In their scheme to hide god and his workings from us, The Roman Catholic Church - one of the first western bodies of power to take the banner of the globular pigswash that today eager students drink up,  has also hidden from us the truth about astrology.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss why and how this plays into their plans to hide God from us, if such plans exist, and how we might move forward with this knowledge. First to accomplish this nobel goal we must take on us the argument of whether Astrology is indeed a valid view of thought, whether its enemies (science and the Catholic church) acted rationally in their acceptance of it, and finally what their motives will be.  We start here at part I:

ASTROLOGY
SCIENTIFICALLY DEMONSTRATED


The Scientific Call To War: A Manifesto For Learned Men
Feyerabend, and others, report that in the October 1975 issue of the Humanist, 186 scientists - including a generous handful of Nobel Prize winners mind you - signed a manifesto against Astrology. They talk a great many words, and proudly proclaim astrology bunk with little to no argument. More than this, they include 186 signatures; if it was not clear the argument was not given, it should be when one considers the question - 'why so many signatures if their argument could be shown?'

 They are not interested in learned subjects here clearly - they act religiously. Now, mind you when I say religiously here what I, like the average globularist, actually mean is dogmatically; this is in contra-distinction to the definition I so often lean to from William James which I hold in the more general and less specific sense.

They are clearly trying to delude the mind of the common man with their position of power. Some have gone so far as to show the structure of this document was a replica of the Roman Catholic book on witchcraft. We will now destroy these myths, and publicly humiliate all those great men who signed such a ridiculous document. No, we will be kind enough not to 'name names.'

The Obvious Truth
Let us set aside now greater matters - that of the shape of the earth - and examine only those at hand. Don't worry flatists - we will come full circle and address the elephant in the room. The arguments presented will assume neither side, yet will fit the common flat earth model as well as the globular one. First we will turn to the definition presented here.

'the assumption that celestial events such as the positions of the planets, of the moon, of the sun influence human affairs'

This is the definition we will use for astrology. Here the avid Christian might laugh - there is no doubt from biblical context that these bodies indeed influence the earth. However, we march bravely on and face the fool on his own hill.

There is no doubt to the always staunt scientist that the heavenly bodies have a body of plasmas that are in a delicate balance with that of the sun. This of course is influenced by the relative placement of the planets - flat or round. For example, Bill Nye might find himself quite titillated at the thought that this interaction - and careful knowledge of the system at hand and the positions of the planets can predict solar disturbances with ridiculous clarity, in model independent mathematics. DeGrace just wouldn't know what he was looking at, but we all know what a silly man he is.

Further more, solar activity - and lunar as we know from other sources - has an almost all invasive hold on not only the basic functions of life itself, but of even chemical reactions. Though we've always known this; at least since Plato. More recently, the electric potential of trees depends not only on the activity of the sun, but on flares - which obviously tie to the position of the planets.

If you are an older fellow you might even remember the harvest moon - or not to put fish out in the dark of night. Now a days we go mad for 'super moons'.  Or heck, the interested fellow can direct himself to the nearest hospital. Here, he or she may ask the staff bluntly - 'do the crazies come out on the full moon?' This has particular effect on an actual full moon.

There is no doubt that any reasonable or reasonable led force (such as evolution) would lead us to a state that is not to appear as random chance and to appear created.

The effects of the moon are discussed in this forum at length. The effects, now, of the sun have been shown sufficiently or can be found by those interested. Or one can save their 20$ and simply use their common sense - of course the position of the sun, and thus the other planets, affect our lives.

Is there not always a chaos to the order? What of Sierpinski and his marvelous triangle? Even but a smidgen of order or evolution or holiness introduced into a chaotic system brings upon that system its own order - such that it can realize even in a pyramid of triangles in the simplest case. I digress...

There is no doubt the seasons affect our disposition. So much so, the ever growing book of psychological disorders now includes disorders for each season! The tale of astrology seems a little more likely, once we start talking about it discretely, doesn't it?





I do not have a physical copy, but it has been widely distributed. I source Feyerabend rather than others like Kurtz because I lean on some of his arguments - however the article is fairly well known and referenced in many astrological apologetics. I have reproduced it below:

Objections to Astrology

A Statement by 186 Leading Scientists

(The following statement first appeared in The Humanist of September/October 1975.)
Quote
Scientists in a variety of fields have become concerned about the increased acceptance of astrology in many parts of the world. We, the undersigned--astronomers, astrophysicists, and scientists in other fields--wish to caution the public against the unquestioning acceptance of the predictions and advice given privately and publicly by astrologers. Those who wish to believe in astrology should realize that there is no scientific foundation for its tenets.

In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view. They looked upon celestial objects as abodes or omens of the gods and, thus, intimately connected with events here on earth; they had no concept of the vast distances from the earth to the planets and stars. Now that these distances can and have been calculated, we can see how infinitesimally small are the gravitational and other effects produced by the distant planets and the far more distant stars. It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures. Neither is it true that the position of distant heavenly bodies make certain days or periods more favorable to particular kinds of action, or that the sign under which one was born determines one's compatibility or incompatibility with other people.

Why do people believe in astrology? In these uncertain times many long for the comfort of having guidance in making decisions. They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. However, we must all face the world, and we must realize that our futures lie in ourselves, and not in the stars.

One would imagine, in this day of widespread enlightenment and education, that it would be unnecessary to debunk beliefs based on magic and superstition. Yet, acceptance of astrology pervades modern society. We are especially disturbed by the continued uncritical dissemination of astrological charts, forecasts, and horoscopes by the media and by otherwise reputable newspapers, magazines, and book publishers. This can only contribute to the growth of irrationalism and obscurantism. We believe that the time has come to challenge directly, and forcefully, the pretentious claims of astrological charlatans.

It should be apparent that those individuals who continue to have faith in astrology do so in spite of the fact that there is no verified scientific basis for their beliefs, and indeed that there is strong evidence to the contrary.

Sponsoring Committee

(Affiliations, as of 1975, given for identification only.)

Bart J. Bok, emeritus
Professor of Astronomy
University of Arizona

Lawrence E. Jerome
Science Writer
Santa Clara, California

Paul Kurtz
Professor of Philosophy
SUNY at Buffalo
Signed by 183 others, including 18 Nobel Prizewinners

The fact of the matter is that many of these signees know nothing about the subject matter which they claim false - this is evidenced by interviews with the subjects after the fact. Our friends at the BBC attempted to interview many of these nobel prizewinners and they declined - stating that they knew nothing of astrology and never studied it. Not only this, but within they make wild claims that 'In ancient times people believed in the predictions and advice of astrologers because astrology was part and parcel of their magical world view.' Where exactly did these men come by their convictions here? Not a one of them is an anthropologist...

Furthermore, I have shown with little to no effort that their base statement: "It is simply a mistake to imagine that the forces exerted by stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" is complete bullocks. No argument is given here, except religious declaration, which I have shown false by simple use of solar flares.

Let us continue to show these men as religious nut jobs.

Oysters open and close their shells based on lunar events. Potatoes as well have their own lunar period. And man? what of him? Well, for one, solar flares have been linked to higher rates of cancer in pilots and astro'nots'. Some have even seen a brilliant flash of light due to them! This is an obvious fact. Standford goes so far as to call it 'space weather.' There is also no doubt that the movement of the heavenly bodies affects our seasons. Many insects are also affected by the heavenly bodies. One simply needs to shake a stick to find it pointing towards more evidence.

However, to full attack the claim "it is a mistake to imagine... [the] stars and planets at the moment of birth can in any way shape our futures" let us look at a 2012 study by Queen Mary University, London. In it, we see that month of birth indeed played quite the role in a great many lives. Winter babies are at the greatest risk for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder; spring babies depression. Other months show lows for these traits, thus again providing a correlative link between the planets locations and the 'shape of our futures'.

You can hardly pick out a sentence without finding complete bullocks. "They would like to believe in a destiny predetermined by astral forces beyond their control. " Is it not quite the popular opinion among scientists, and demonstrably some of those signees, that determinism is a valid point of view?

Have you ever heard of astrotheology? Astrotheology deals with the rotation of the heavens above us, and how they have an effect on earth's physical phenomenon. You'll also discover why the Mayan calendar ended in 2012. You'll also begin understanding the mythological Moses exodus from Egypt. Astrology is the religious{for lack of a better word}, component of astrotheology. It was probably the Mayans that gave us astrology, for they had some complicated charts that each person received upon their birth. These charts directed what the individual did for the rest of their lives.
I have not but will research it, thank you.

The Mayan Calendar, as far as I know, ended in 2012 because that was the end of the last great age. There is no endeavor more important to man than the study of the ages. If you haven't read them, check out the works of David Wardlaw Scott.

I disagree that the term religious is meaningful at all in the context you are using it; though you seem to recognize its issues. To me, science is as religious at most times (by necessity as pointed out by Thomas Kuhn, when you consider what he calls 'Normal' Science). While you recognize this weakness, I still feel - to me - it is fatal to the argument at hand.

The truth is you can tie astrology to cultures not tied to the Mayans at all, and you can find it across disparate cultures - and even some whom were not big fans of the Mayans. Never the less, thank you for the research bullet.

Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Username on February 28, 2017, 04:12:44 PM
My issue with atheism is that it employs the same logical arguments (and illogical ones) as the theistic points of view; yet it does this claiming superior logical foundations and a tyranical nature that disallows existence of the other idea. It is seldom I see a tolerant atheist - its surprising I see so many tolerate theists in the world.

On the other hand, science, in theory not in practice, does the opposite and favors the bold and revolutionary ideas. In practice, it acts as a Normal science - a religion. Its all the bad stuff of religion, but it pretends to be pure reason. This is dangerous to not only knowledge, and advance, but to the long term survival of our species in the next 15-30 years.
Title: Re: ASTROLOGY and the Flat Earth
Post by: Val Strasser on February 28, 2017, 04:33:44 PM
Yeah, so try to find faithful translations.

King James, New King James and Evangelical Bibles seem well tranlsated.

You sound very hostile for someone agreeing with me.

Faithful translations?  So, what you are saying is that the Bible, written by man, has been "interpreted" by several men to the extent that there are now several versions?

What happened to the Bible being the inerrant word of God?  How does one determine a "faithful translation"?  How did you?

You also missed my bit about the Book of Mormon and the Quran.  Any thoughts?

And where did I agree with you? 

Hostile implies malice, which is not intentional in this thread.  I prefer "opposed".